From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 00:07:11 2013 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:07:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word In-Reply-To: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com> References: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I am doing control-shift-apostrophe. It is so weird. JAWS says there are no comments...Weird people using Microsoft for Mac. No really, I wish it was accessible, but this is really interesting. Cindy On 1/31/13, Humberto Avila wrote: > Hello Cindy, > > JAWS should be able to read / announce the comments as you are moving > through the document. When you reach a comment in the spot or selection > that > she put the comment, JAWS will say, "Has comment," and say the text. Then, > you must navigate with control+right and control+left arrow word by word to > find the comment. Then, when you reach the text that she put the comment > on, > JAWS should say something like: "Comment Reference colon Bla Bla Bla. By > username." > In addition, you can press Alt+Shift+apostrophe to get the "Reviewer's > comments dialog" where you can see her comments in a listbox. > Hope this helps you. Please let me know if you have further questions. You > may reply directly to me if you wish: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com. > > Have a nice day! > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Asociation of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word > > Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the > margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I > was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe > that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something > wrong? I'm sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments, > but I don't think I'm searching with the right terms. Or, could there > be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I > assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a > document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am > using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks. > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students > Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 00:33:38 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:33:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word In-Reply-To: References: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com> Message-ID: One problem I have sometimes is that comments get cut off. So JAWS will read me the first part of the comment using the technique Humberto described, but then it will get cut off. My professors sometimes write multi-sentence comments and I'd love to be able to read the whole thing instead of guessing what the end of the comment says. Any ideas? Arielle On 1/31/13, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Yes, I am doing control-shift-apostrophe. It is so weird. JAWS says > there are no comments...Weird people using Microsoft for Mac. No > really, I wish it was accessible, but this is really interesting. > > Cindy > > On 1/31/13, Humberto Avila wrote: >> Hello Cindy, >> >> JAWS should be able to read / announce the comments as you are moving >> through the document. When you reach a comment in the spot or selection >> that >> she put the comment, JAWS will say, "Has comment," and say the text. >> Then, >> you must navigate with control+right and control+left arrow word by word >> to >> find the comment. Then, when you reach the text that she put the comment >> on, >> JAWS should say something like: "Comment Reference colon Bla Bla Bla. By >> username." >> In addition, you can press Alt+Shift+apostrophe to get the "Reviewer's >> comments dialog" where you can see her comments in a listbox. >> Hope this helps you. Please let me know if you have further questions. >> You >> may reply directly to me if you wish: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com. >> >> Have a nice day! >> Humberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy >> Bennett >> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:50 PM >> To: National Asociation of Blind Students >> Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word >> >> Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the >> margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I >> was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe >> that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something >> wrong? I'm sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments, >> but I don't think I'm searching with the right terms. Or, could there >> be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I >> assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a >> document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am >> using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks. >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students >> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington >> >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students > Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 01:55:01 2013 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:55:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word In-Reply-To: References: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01ce001f$27471880$75d54980$@gmail.com> Cindy, next, try using Alt+Shift+apostrophe instead. You should get a dialog box with all the comments. If this does not work, then, it is either, (1) your JAWS isn't behaving so well for you, try giving him a spank! * Smile * or (2) this person used a version of word for the Mack, which probably word for Mack uses a totally different scheme of how it does advanced methods of word processing like comments, and which is very inaccessible. I haven't used or heard of this version of word, so probably someone who does and can tell us how office with the Mack works and enlighten us on its functionality with screen readers like JAWS and even voiceover. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 4:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word Yes, I am doing control-shift-apostrophe. It is so weird. JAWS says there are no comments...Weird people using Microsoft for Mac. No really, I wish it was accessible, but this is really interesting. Cindy On 1/31/13, Humberto Avila wrote: > Hello Cindy, > > JAWS should be able to read / announce the comments as you are moving > through the document. When you reach a comment in the spot or selection > that > she put the comment, JAWS will say, "Has comment," and say the text. Then, > you must navigate with control+right and control+left arrow word by word to > find the comment. Then, when you reach the text that she put the comment > on, > JAWS should say something like: "Comment Reference colon Bla Bla Bla. By > username." > In addition, you can press Alt+Shift+apostrophe to get the "Reviewer's > comments dialog" where you can see her comments in a listbox. > Hope this helps you. Please let me know if you have further questions. You > may reply directly to me if you wish: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com. > > Have a nice day! > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Asociation of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word > > Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the > margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I > was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe > that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something > wrong? I'm sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments, > but I don't think I'm searching with the right terms. Or, could there > be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I > assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a > document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am > using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks. > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students > Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 1 04:24:51 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:24:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word In-Reply-To: References: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <974650D8523E4DEC9DFB600418ECAA8B@OwnerPC> I've had comments be cut off too; wish I had a solution there. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word One problem I have sometimes is that comments get cut off. So JAWS will read me the first part of the comment using the technique Humberto described, but then it will get cut off. My professors sometimes write multi-sentence comments and I'd love to be able to read the whole thing instead of guessing what the end of the comment says. Any ideas? Arielle On 1/31/13, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Yes, I am doing control-shift-apostrophe. It is so weird. JAWS says > there are no comments...Weird people using Microsoft for Mac. No > really, I wish it was accessible, but this is really interesting. > > Cindy > > On 1/31/13, Humberto Avila wrote: >> Hello Cindy, >> >> JAWS should be able to read / announce the comments as you are moving >> through the document. When you reach a comment in the spot or selection >> that >> she put the comment, JAWS will say, "Has comment," and say the text. >> Then, >> you must navigate with control+right and control+left arrow word by word >> to >> find the comment. Then, when you reach the text that she put the comment >> on, >> JAWS should say something like: "Comment Reference colon Bla Bla Bla. By >> username." >> In addition, you can press Alt+Shift+apostrophe to get the "Reviewer's >> comments dialog" where you can see her comments in a listbox. >> Hope this helps you. Please let me know if you have further questions. >> You >> may reply directly to me if you wish: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com. >> >> Have a nice day! >> Humberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy >> Bennett >> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:50 PM >> To: National Asociation of Blind Students >> Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word >> >> Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the >> margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I >> was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe >> that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something >> wrong? I'm sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments, >> but I don't think I'm searching with the right terms. Or, could there >> be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I >> assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a >> document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am >> using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks. >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students >> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington >> >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > Secretary: National Association of Blind Students > Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > clb5590 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 07:47:47 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Message-ID: Hi everyone I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely thing! Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! Ari From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Feb 1 12:24:34 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 04:24:34 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130201041435.01e9b4e8@comcast.net> Good morning, Ari, I am in full agreement about the luxuries of being able to, in a sensual way, caress braille dots within a book. That is something I am definitely misssing in my life after brain damage has left me with tactual appraxia (meaning the inability of hand to transmit what it perceives to brain) rendering braille tactually unavailable, although i still know the entire code and can, using a braille writer, still write. I have converted means of retaining information into that centered around audio, and it's a real drag! for today, CarlyAt 11:47 PM 1/31/2013, you wrote: >Hi everyone >I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >thing! >Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >Ari > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 12:39:21 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 06:39:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Message-ID: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the United States. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 15:41:20 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Sophie and Carly Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort of abstract sounds? Ari On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have > a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and > read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point > if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys > have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to > read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 15:46:51 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:46:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Ari and all, I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about 20 or 25 dollars max. The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: > Sophie, > That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the > United States. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library >> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I >> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a >> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a >> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know >> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, >> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ari Damoulakis > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi everyone >> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >> thing! >> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >> Ari >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 15:55:22 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:55:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ari, Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Ari and all, > > I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as > Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, > not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, > but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I > love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy > that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep > certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree > that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not > te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about > 20 or 25 dollars max. > > The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn > braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or > tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be > literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or > technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally > died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I > didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The > worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the > parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their > kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. > It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, > hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) > > On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >> Sophie, >> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >> United States. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >> wrote: >> >>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library >>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before >>> I >>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a >>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a >>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know >>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>> $20-30, >>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ari Damoulakis >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>> >>> Hi everyone >>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>> thing! >>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>> Ari >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 1 16:10:53 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:10:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, He is not in the US so cannot get NLS books. I agree with him that buying braille books shouldn't cost so much. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:39 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. Arielle On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Ari, > > Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving > braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on > for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even > more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for > braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the > visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some > areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a > child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they > usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to > teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will > have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and > parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille > teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students > spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a > large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. > > Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school > with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an > intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi > after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and > graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi Ari and all, >> >> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >> 20 or 25 dollars max. >> >> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>> Sophie, >>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>> United States. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>> library >>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>> before >>>> I >>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>> a >>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>> a >>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>> know >>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>> learning >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>> $20-30, >>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>> >>>> Hi everyone >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>> thing! >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>> Ari >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri Feb 1 16:30:13 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:30:13 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> , Message-ID: Braille is an interesting topic! I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.) I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. Those chapters are so long! Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? I don't need all of that! I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need to know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! That's not efficient at all! We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as opposed to audio! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Hi all, The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. Arielle On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Ari, > > Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving > braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on > for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even > more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for > braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the > visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some > areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a > child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they > usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to > teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will > have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and > parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille > teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students > spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a > large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. > > Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school > with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an > intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi > after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and > graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi Ari and all, >> >> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >> 20 or 25 dollars max. >> >> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>> Sophie, >>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>> United States. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>> library >>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>> before >>>> I >>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>> a >>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>> a >>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>> know >>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>> learning >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>> $20-30, >>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>> >>>> Hi everyone >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>> thing! >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>> Ari >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 17:54:00 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 19:54:00 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the books to you. Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here you'll be very happy. http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ Ari On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Braille is an interesting topic! > I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! > It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.) > I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. > Those chapters are so long! > Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? > I don't need all of that! > I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out > all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the > blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. > With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need to > know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! > That's not efficient at all! > We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as > opposed to audio! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman > [arielle71 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi all, > The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good > portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume > means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities > that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also > includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of > kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their > vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning > how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the > proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like > 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all > because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is > probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high > enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified > as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. > Arielle > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Ari, >> >> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >> >> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi Ari and all, >>> >>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>> >>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Sophie, >>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>>> United States. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>> library >>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>> before >>>>> I >>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>>> a >>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>>> a >>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>> know >>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>> learning >>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>> learn >>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>> $20-30, >>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone >>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>> thing! >>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>> Ari >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri Feb 1 17:58:40 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:58:40 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> , Message-ID: Ari! In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program like that. At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe Braille, as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for some reason. That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the books to you. Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here you'll be very happy. http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ Ari On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Braille is an interesting topic! > I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! > It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.) > I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. > Those chapters are so long! > Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? > I don't need all of that! > I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out > all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the > blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. > With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need to > know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! > That's not efficient at all! > We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as > opposed to audio! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman > [arielle71 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi all, > The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good > portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume > means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities > that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also > includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of > kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their > vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning > how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the > proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like > 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all > because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is > probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high > enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified > as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. > Arielle > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Ari, >> >> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >> >> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi Ari and all, >>> >>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>> >>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Sophie, >>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>>> United States. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>> library >>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>> before >>>>> I >>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>>> a >>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>>> a >>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>> know >>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>> learning >>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>> learn >>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>> $20-30, >>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone >>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>> thing! >>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>> Ari >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 18:15:06 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 20:15:06 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written at the beginning of the line. Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more. Ari On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ari! > In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program > like that. > At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe Braille, > as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for some > reason. > That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis > [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a > library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books > on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. > Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is > what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille > books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy > braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have > bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a > model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille > and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from > there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, > because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they > do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is > they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as > part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have > seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the > crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have > relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the > books to you. > Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it > in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the > online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone > or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will > see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, > but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here > you'll be very happy. > http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ > Ari > On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Braille is an interesting topic! >> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in >> college.) >> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >> Those chapters are so long! >> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >> I don't need all of that! >> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out >> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the >> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need >> to >> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >> That's not efficient at all! >> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as >> opposed to audio! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman >> [arielle71 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi all, >> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Ari, >>> >>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>> >>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Hi Ari and all, >>>> >>>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>>> >>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in >>>>> the >>>>> United States. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>> library >>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>> before >>>>>> I >>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading >>>>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's >>>>>> what >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>> learning >>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>> learn >>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>> $20-30, >>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>> audio, >>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>> read >>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, >>>>>> but >>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>> thing! >>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>> couldn't >>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>> have >>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want >>>>>> in >>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>> read >>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>> Ari >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 18:22:39 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 20:22:39 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I forgot, for me, even something like reading poetry you need braille. Yes you can obviously do it electronic, but I don't know how to explain, but I somehow connect more with the poem and can really meditate properly about a poem when its in braille. On 2/1/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in > pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm > listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry > on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to > read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With > jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences > are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go > back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to > say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a > book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I > have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I > find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder > to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use > something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is > written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written > at the beginning of the line. > Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example > the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille > is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more. > Ari > On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Ari! >> In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program >> like that. >> At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe >> Braille, >> as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for >> some >> reason. >> That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis >> [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a >> library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books >> on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. >> Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is >> what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille >> books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy >> braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have >> bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a >> model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille >> and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from >> there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, >> because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they >> do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is >> they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as >> part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have >> seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the >> crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have >> relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the >> books to you. >> Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it >> in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the >> online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone >> or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will >> see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, >> but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here >> you'll be very happy. >> http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ >> Ari >> On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Braille is an interesting topic! >>> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >>> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in >>> college.) >>> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >>> Those chapters are so long! >>> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >>> I don't need all of that! >>> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave >>> out >>> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the >>> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >>> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need >>> to >>> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >>> That's not efficient at all! >>> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as >>> opposed to audio! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman >>> [arielle71 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>> >>> Hi all, >>> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >>> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >>> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >>> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >>> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >>> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >>> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >>> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >>> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >>> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >>> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >>> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >>> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >>> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Ari, >>>> >>>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>>> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>>> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>>> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>>> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>>> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>>> >>>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>>> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Hi Ari and all, >>>>> >>>>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>>>> >>>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in >>>>>> the >>>>>> United States. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>>> library >>>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>>> learning >>>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>>> $20-30, >>>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>>> audio, >>>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>>> thing! >>>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>>> couldn't >>>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>>>>>> books >>>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>>>>>> prices >>>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>>>>>> electronic >>>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>>> Ari >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri Feb 1 18:23:13 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:23:13 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> , Message-ID: PDF's are a real pain in the rear! I use Jaws 10.0, and the only way I can convert PDF's is through RoboBraille! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written at the beginning of the line. Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more. Ari On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ari! > In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program > like that. > At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe Braille, > as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for some > reason. > That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis > [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a > library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books > on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. > Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is > what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille > books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy > braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have > bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a > model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille > and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from > there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, > because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they > do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is > they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as > part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have > seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the > crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have > relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the > books to you. > Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it > in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the > online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone > or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will > see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, > but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here > you'll be very happy. > http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ > Ari > On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Braille is an interesting topic! >> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in >> college.) >> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >> Those chapters are so long! >> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >> I don't need all of that! >> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out >> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the >> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need >> to >> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >> That's not efficient at all! >> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as >> opposed to audio! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman >> [arielle71 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi all, >> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Ari, >>> >>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>> >>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Hi Ari and all, >>>> >>>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>>> >>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in >>>>> the >>>>> United States. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>> library >>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>> before >>>>>> I >>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading >>>>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's >>>>>> what >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>> learning >>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>> learn >>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>> $20-30, >>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>> audio, >>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>> read >>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, >>>>>> but >>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>> thing! >>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>> couldn't >>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>> have >>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want >>>>>> in >>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>> read >>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>> Ari >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 18:28:43 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:28:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] for those headed to washington seminar, an introduction Message-ID: <00B5F20B-2722-41CA-B595-E0C295DB686D@gmail.com> greetings all, I just wanted to give those of you who are going to washington seminar a quick introduction of me, as I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible during the event. I have been an active figure within blind communities since small, when I still lived in sao paulo, brazil. My first encounter with a politician was in 2003, when at the age of nine i reminded the state governor about the importance of accessibility in the city's subway systems as well as the fundamental difference that politicians could make should they communicate to one another beyond power struggles. Since meeting the governor in a store, I joined an american school, graduated from high school and now attend michigan state university as a psychology major, while serving as the vice president of the michigan association of blind students.. I have been helping families with children who are blind since about two years ago, and the importance of educating and making people aware of the needs of the blind was even more clear to me since them. It will be my great pleasure to meet all of you and develop friendships as well as learn about your experiences during washington seminar. my contact information is below for anyone interested. see you in dc, Mauricio Almeida phone: 5178994969 facebook: Facebook.com/mauriciopmalmeida e-mail: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Skype: mauriciopma10 blog (english): www.mauricioalmeida.net From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 19:16:51 2013 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:16:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in MS Word Message-ID: <00ac01ce00b0$b180dea0$14829be0$@gmail.com> I am not sure if this is a different way of getting at the same thing OR IF THIS WILL HELP Cindy, but when I want to view comments in a Word document, I press windows key plus semicolon. That brings up a list of items to choose to have displayed in the virtual viewer. Comments are one of the options, as are revisions from track changes. Once you press enter on comments, a list of all the comments comes up in the virtual viewer. If you press enter on a comment in the viewer, you will be taken to the place in the document that the comment references. I like this better than the alt, shift, apostrophe option. I work with folks who use Word for Mac, and have never had a problem accessing their comments. Also, I have not had the issue with comments being cut short in this view. Hope this helps, and look forward to seeing some of you in DC! Take care, Sean From blindatbirth at yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 20:17:36 2013 From: blindatbirth at yahoo.com (Shelby Young) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:17:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list Message-ID: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Hi, My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are different ways you take notes in class? Thanks in advance for any information. Shelby From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 20:31:25 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 15:31:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <-4685185936613579206@unknownmsgid> Hi Shelby, First off, welcome to the list. Second, for audiobooks, in my opinion it is your personal preference, what might work well for you might not work well for others, and vise versa. I have a braillenote apex which I hook up to my phone and use with it, you can do that with your mac too, if you want help with that feel free to write me offlist at joshkart12 at gmail.com. Finally, I have a... for lack of better phrasing, human notetaker, which has proved invaluable for me since my professors tend to put a lot of content up on the boards and such, and since I'm totally blind myself, I can't see it. But I think that, again, this is personal preference. I hope this is enough to get you started, and again welcome to the list. Best, Josh Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Shelby Young wrote: > Hi, > My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are different ways you take notes in class? > Thanks in advance for any information. > Shelby > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 1 20:43:25 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 15:43:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6A78143FA6374BACA568219FE20651FC@OwnerPC> Hi, are you starting college? It sounds like you know braille; I hope you had a system worked out for high school texts and handouts. Some of the same accomodations and techniques work both in high school and in college. Hopefully you had a supportive TVI who helped you advocate for your needs and taught you to order books and you learned adaptive technology. I suggest you meet with your teachers at the beginning of the semester. For notetaking, the important thing is to do it; some blind people simply record class and I don't think that is a good idea. You will not be fully engaged in the lecture then and reviewing notes really will help you study. Recording class can be a good way to review complex material or if a professor goes real fast, you might review things verbatum with a recorded version. You can book mark certain sections in a lecture. So, I'd say definitely take notes and record as a secondary option. How you take notes is up to you. However, if you are a braille user, you may find having an electronic notetaker with a built in braille display very helpful. You can read your own notes with it and read class writing to others if you need to share it in class. So, if you have worked with or are familiar with a notetaker, this is an excellent option. Notetakers such as a Pacmate, BrailleNote, or Braille Sense are popular notetakers. If you are comfortable typing notes and have a mainstream device such as a laptop or IOS device like an Ipad, these devices are also notetaking solutions. I don't do it that way since I need braille to study and a typed electronic copy would not afford me the braille option. Next how you read your books is up to you. But I'd say different options give you different features and flexibility. Personally, I use audio books when I can; Using Learning ally textbooks formerly RFB&D, is a good option since they describe diagrams and charts as well as you can get page numbers from it. However using electronic text copies by scanning books gives you some more information as well. You can see the spelling of words, what is bold or italicized, and the structure of the writing; such as where paragraphs break or where quotations are. I think a con to scanning text is that scanners make errors and you cannot scan things like charts and tables; it won't make sense. So, whatever works for you is best. I might also mention you can usually get your DSS office to get you electronic texts when you provide proof of purchase. This is better IMO; it eliminates the need to scan books. Why spend time scanning if you don't have to? So, I'd say between using daisy books through Bookshare and Learning Ally and publisher issued texts, you may not need to scan books. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Shelby Young Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 3:17 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list Hi, My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are different ways you take notes in class? Thanks in advance for any information. Shelby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 1 20:58:06 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 15:58:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Shelby, I forgot to add some things to answer your questions. I do not use a braille display as its so expensive; I have one through my braille Note only. If you get one through rehab, I suggest getting one of 20 cells or more. This way you can read several words without having to advance the display. If you are connecting it to a laptop/netbook, you want something portable so a huge 80 cell would not be a good idea. Personally, if I get a braille display, I'd probably pick the one with 18 or 20 cells. This way its smaller and portable so I could carry it without breaking my arms from the weight of it and hook it up to a laptop or desktop when I'm at home. I use a Braille note for notetaking. But its up to you what you do. I write notes in a rough outline form. What I mean is I have major headings but do not use a formal out line structure with letters and numbers. I have a heading; then notes underneath. Each major point I place a dash before it since I cannot write bullets with a notetaker. If the professor lists items, I list those too with numbers. For instance Four family theories I'd write Family Theories: 1. 2. 3. 4. Then the words that go with that list. I also write down definitions and key vocab we go over. Certain subjects have their own vocabulary. For instance psychology has words like cognitive distortions, classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and self efficacy. After writing down the terms, I write down an example or two if that is given or discussed. HTH, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Shelby Young Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 3:17 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list Hi, My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are different ways you take notes in class? Thanks in advance for any information. Shelby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 20:58:23 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 14:58:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Message-ID: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you should be good. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis wrote: Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis References: <56612daf85a9c0551add62f591168ad7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201ce00c4$6ba8fcf0$42faf6d0$@gmail.com> From: Carol Sprague [mailto:csprague at cocenter.org] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:17 AM To: csprague at cocenter.org Subject: January CCB newsletter COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND 2233 W. Shepperd Ave. Littleton, CO 80120 303-778-1130 800-401-4632 ccb at cocenter.org www. cocenter.org January 2013 Newsletter Take charge with confidence and self-reliance Message from the Director Civil rights, taking equal responsibility and having the opportunity to compete in all aspects of life is what we stand for at the Colorado Center for the Blind. Each year we look forward to celebrating our accomplishments in these areas by marching in the second largest Marade (march plus parade) in the country on Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. This year all of our staff and students took the bus to downtown Denver and prepared to walk with thousands of others who were also celebrating. The weather was beautiful and the energy was high. We walked a couple of miles among people who were singing, chanting, playing instruments and recognizing how far we have come. Every day we work together to move forward as blind people! We are making great progress and will continue to. Program Notes Youth We gather in our gym on Tuesdays at 5:00 pm to play goalball with blind students of any age. Goalball is a fun and exhilarating game that takes toughness and skill. Anyone can learn how to play. This week was a lot of fun for everyone. To join us for goalball, call Brent Batron, Youth Services Coordinator, at 303-778-1130 ext. 222 and sign up! Without Braille a blind person cannot read. We love to promote Braille! This month Brent Batron, Jessica Beecham and several students participated in the Braille Challenge at the Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind. Nothing is more fun than seeing kids get excited when they learn to read and realize that they can enjoy a book, write down information and have fun with Braille. We plan to do more in the area of Braille very soon! Independence Training Program Matt from Canada had not been skiing for several years and he wondered if he would remember how to turn, go on the ski lift and fall the right way. Matt was a bit nervous at first. After a Center ski day, he reported that he only fell three times and that he was exhilarated at the end of the day. Matt understands now why we emphasize challenge recreation as part of our program here. He explained that he did not like rock climbing, but feels so accomplished that he pushed himself to do this and so many other things since he has been in Colorado. Matt plans to finish his program in a month. He will share an apartment with his sister and attend school. He has the confidence to try anything now and this will get him a very long way in his life. Seniors Our Senior Program is filled with creativity and vitality. This month the seniors participated in technology classes. Everyone loved learning about the iPhone and the iPad. They saw what can be done and are eager to learn more. A demonstration was given on script talk which is a way to make medication labels accessible. One of our seniors signed up for the program immediately after the demonstration. On Tuesday of this week, the male seniors prepared chili and corn bread for the women. Everyone agreed that the chili was some of the best that they had tasted. The men gained culinary experience, chopping, measuring, using a cook top and doing so much more. Of course, the women loved being waited on. Senior groups are available weekly. For more information, please call Duncan Larsen at 303-778-1130 extension 226. Upcoming Events: January 22-February 26: Youth goalball for 6 weeks We will conduct a 6 week goalball clinic in conjunction with USABA. This clinic will be held every Tuesday from 4:30 - 6:30 pm beginning on January 22nd. We will learn the rules of the game, practice drills and play games. There is no charge for this activity but please plan on participating in all 6 dates. February 16th 10 am-noon: NFB of Colorado Denver Chapter meeting at the Center To refer someone who is interested in training, please call Robert Dyson at 303-778-1130 extension 249. If you have items for the newsletter, please send them to ccb at cocenter.org. Please note that my email address has changed to: csprague at cocenter.org Carol Sprague Administrative Coordinator Colorado Center for the Blind 2233 W. Shepperd Ave. Littleton, CO 80120 303-778-1130 303-778-1598 fax www.cocenter.org Take charge with confidence and self-reliance FaceBook_24x24 Twitter_24x24 Youtube_24x24 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 1147 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 1266 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 1239 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gpaikens at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 21:53:51 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:53:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> , Message-ID: Do you think people just put figures and diagrams in the books for fun? They often contain important information that is difficult to communicate textually, or handy summaries of information in table form. Recording a math or science book without the tables, diagrams, and figures would be like cutting out 40% of the book. I would want to have access to that info, whether I was reading the book in braille or with audio. If you do not care to read the figures, you can often just skip ahead to the beginning of the next page. They are often read after all of the text on the page. Also, take advantage of the features in your book reader program and speed up the reading until you get to a pertinent section and then slow it down for detail reading. I know this is not nearly as convenient as skimming through a braille book, but it sure beats listening to hours of unnecessary text. I'm all about braille. I wish I had used more of it in college. But there are other ways to make other media work better for you if that is all you have. -Greg On Feb 1, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Braille is an interesting topic! > I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! > It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.) > I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. > Those chapters are so long! > Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? > I don't need all of that! > I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. > With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need to know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! > That's not efficient at all! > We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as opposed to audio! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi all, > The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good > portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume > means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities > that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also > includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of > kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their > vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning > how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the > proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like > 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all > because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is > probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high > enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified > as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. > Arielle > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Ari, >> >> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >> >> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi Ari and all, >>> >>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>> >>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Sophie, >>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>>> United States. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>> library >>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>> before >>>>> I >>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>>> a >>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>>> a >>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>> know >>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>> learning >>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>> $20-30, >>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone >>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>> thing! >>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>> Ari >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 21:54:27 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 23:54:27 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> References: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Don't worry Sophie. Yes, I'm from South Africa. I think you're perfectly right. I also know how to sign my name, and I have been shown some of the lettres and numbers, but you just do forget, plus I find the whole thing of trying to hold the pen and write difficult. Maybe in the old days when so much wasn't done electronic it was more necessary for a blnd person to learn, but for me there's just so much else I'd rather learn and do. On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the > U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, > I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print > letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad > because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you > should be good. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi Sophie and Carly > Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni > for > example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does > use > jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use > audio > you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just > that, > but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that > even now > when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise > what > I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person > doesn't > learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what > an > alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then > just > somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming > they > haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some > other > way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use > sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and > numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for > example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the > rest, > even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do > forget. > But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people > in > the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the > teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how > lettres > fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just > sort > of abstract sounds? > Ari > > On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a > backup, > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids > must > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or > have > a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it > and > read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, > a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the > point > if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you > guys > have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able > to > read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Feb 2 00:59:40 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:59:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> References: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Learning to read raised print is a helpful skill. You can use this skill to read signs that are in tactile print but not braille. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you should be good. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi Sophie and Carly > Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for > example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use > jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio > you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, > but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now > when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what > I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't > learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an > alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just > somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they > haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other > way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use > sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and > numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for > example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, > even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. > But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in > the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the > teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres > fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort > of abstract sounds? > Ari > > On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have > a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and > read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point > if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys > have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to > read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From mistydbradley at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 01:13:50 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 20:13:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: <36936F3967CD410798CC27E073F01DA8@acerd37f251f21> Hi, I agree with you about Learning Ally. It would be nice to get textbooks in Braille, and then it would be more equal, since sighted people read in print and can skim the chapters. Also, Learning Ally books are rather frustrating to read due to the change of the readers' voices every few pages, so you have to get used to a new voice for every few pages you listen to. I agree that audio is more cost-effective and less bulky, but it would be nice to actually be able to read a Braille textbook in the same way that a sighted person would read a print textbook, and it would be more efficient for in-class discussions and assignments as well, because you don't have to try to listen to the book while also trying to listen to the teacher or your fellow classmates. . Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > Braille is an interesting topic! > I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! > It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in > college.) > I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. > Those chapters are so long! > Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? > I don't need all of that! > I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out > all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the > blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. > With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need > to know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! > That's not efficient at all! > We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as > opposed to audio! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman > [arielle71 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi all, > The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good > portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume > means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities > that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also > includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of > kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their > vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning > how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the > proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like > 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all > because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is > probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high > enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified > as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. > Arielle > > On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Ari, >> >> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >> >> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi Ari and all, >>> >>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>> >>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Sophie, >>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>>> United States. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>> library >>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>> before >>>>> I >>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>>> a >>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>>> a >>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>> know >>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>> learning >>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>> learn >>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>> $20-30, >>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone >>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>> thing! >>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>> Ari >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 01:32:27 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 20:32:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille References: <510c2ca1.2444ec0a.76d5.ffffd552@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <807004EAE96E441CA38F36F39898CB26@acerd37f251f21> Hi, Yes, learning raised print is helpful for things like elevators, room number signs, bathroom signs, and other things. I use this for reading the card numbers and expiration dates for my debit and credit cards also. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi Moerke" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > Learning to read raised print is a helpful skill. You can use this skill > to read signs that are in tactile print but not braille. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the U.S. >> Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, I can sign my >> name, but other than that, I do not know any print letters and have no >> desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad because you don't know >> print. As long as you know braille you should be good. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ari Damoulakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi Sophie and Carly >> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >> of abstract sounds? >> Ari >> >> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ari Damoulakis > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi everyone >> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >> sad. I >> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >> a >> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >> audio, >> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >> not >> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >> paper. I >> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >> read >> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >> language or >> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >> etc, but >> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >> lovely >> thing! >> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >> you >> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >> looking >> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >> help >> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >> have >> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >> couldn't >> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >> that >> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >> braille. >> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >> books >> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >> to >> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >> these >> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >> the >> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >> don't >> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >> even if >> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >> 6 >> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >> prices >> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >> electronic >> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >> tragic >> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >> aren't >> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >> if >> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >> have >> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >> want in >> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >> prices >> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >> read >> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >> Ari >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 2 03:26:10 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 22:26:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests Message-ID: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Hi all, How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to disabled students. At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it was an essay exam. At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there in a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I opt to read it on the pc. Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams in a separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else out; for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing office. I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the testing center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring a laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask the disability counseling center about this. I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get the sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me to take it on a electronic device. Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. Ashley From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 2 05:40:25 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 23:40:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness Research Message-ID: >I have been asked to circulate this. I hope he >doesn't think that the only way blind persons >travel is with a sighted companion. Dave >Hello All, > >I hope you are all having a wonderful new year. >I am researching blind and visually impaired >tourism for my dissertation research and was >wondering if anyone here would be willing to >share some of their experiences. I have been >involved in the blind community for over 15 >years as my mother-in-law is blind and I have >been her primary traveling companion, which is >why I became involved in this research. > >I will be asking participants to journal about >their travel experiences and am looking for >anyone who is willing to share their past >experiences (a memoir style journal) or a >present experience (an active journal of a trip >you are currently on or about to take). > >If you are willing to participate I can give you >more details in private correspondence. > >My research is about giving voice to others and >making the world aware of another way of seeing. >I cannot do this without the help and >participation of you so I really hope that I can >get some ideas and involvement from others. > >Thank you, >Dusty Waltner > >"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my >troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... >You may not realize it when it happens, but a >kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you." ­ Walt Disney > >Dusty Leigh Waltner >dwaltn1 at tigers.lsu.edu >Louisiana State University >Graduate Teaching Assistant >Department of Geography and Anthropology >227 Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex >Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70803 From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 06:26:18 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 01:26:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a different matter entirely. Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save you time after class. On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? > Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to disabled > students. > > At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students > got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. > I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader > usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it > was an essay exam. > > At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there in > a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. > They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I opt > to read it on the pc. > > Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams in a > separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? > I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else out; > for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. > > Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own > equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with > professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing office. > > I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the testing > center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right > there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring a > laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask the > disability counseling center about this. > I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; > this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get the > sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that > that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that > building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than > walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. > > > She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format > electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me to > take it on a electronic device. > > > Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds > reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the > quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 06:49:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 01:49:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Shelby, Welcome to the list! Here are my answers to some of your questions. For class I rely mostly on my laptop and BrailleSensse. It depends on the assignment, but typically if it needs to be emailed in I'll write it on the computer in microsoft word and if it's just personal notes for me I use my BrailleSense, although I have my default file type set to txt to make the files interchangeable. The school I attend has a Focus 40 display, but I don't use it in everyday class work. It's a nice display, although not the most portable one. If you're planning to use one on a daily basis I'd recommend getting one that's smaller like Ashley said or using a notetaker as a display via bluetooth if you have one. For notes it really depends on your typing speed and how you understand the information you take down. I like to write mine in a way that sort of paraphrases what the teacher says, but I don't use abreviations or anything. I number things if they're presented in a list and write down exaples to help me remember, but I'm a pretty fast typist so my notes tend to read more like a book or something than actual notes. I'd start on Bookshare or Web Braille first. I don't use Learning Ally at all but if that works for you that too. Get anything you can for free. Then if you don't want audio or still have books you can't find anywaere else get them through your disabilities office. Usually mine will just scan the books, edit them, and email me text files which I can read with Jaws or put on my BrailleSense if I want to physically read the braille. It may seem like a pain if you have to buy the print textbook but you can always sell it back. If you don't like the bookstore's price you can always sell it to another student directly, and you can actually get closer to the original price than a sighted person might since the book will be in mint condition. Hope this helps. On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Shelby, > I forgot to add some things to answer your questions. > I do not use a braille display as its so expensive; I have one through my > braille Note only. > If you get one through rehab, I suggest getting one of 20 cells or more. > This way you can read several words without having to advance the display. > If you are connecting it to a laptop/netbook, you want something portable so > > a huge 80 cell would not be a good idea. > Personally, if I get a braille display, I'd probably pick the one with 18 > or 20 cells. This way its smaller and portable so I could > carry it without breaking my arms from the weight of it and hook it up to a > > laptop or desktop when I'm at home. > > I use a Braille note for notetaking. But its up to you what you do. > I write notes in a rough outline form. What I mean is I have major headings > > but do not use a formal out line structure with letters and numbers. > I have a heading; then notes underneath. Each major point I place a dash > before it since I cannot write bullets with a notetaker. > If the professor lists items, I list those too with numbers. For instance > Four family theories I'd write > Family Theories: > 1. > 2. > 3. > 4. > Then the words that go with that list. I also write down definitions and key > > vocab we go over. Certain subjects have their own vocabulary. For instance > psychology has words like cognitive distortions, > classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and self efficacy. > After writing down the terms, I write down an example or two if that is > given or discussed. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shelby Young > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 3:17 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Hi, > My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering > Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting > them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some > > of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are > different ways you take notes in class? > Thanks in advance for any information. > Shelby > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 07:13:31 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 09:13:31 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Shelby To add to what Kaiti and Ashley are saying, if you want to do the notetaker thing, its a good idea to join the lists and read the mannuals, and see the units of the notetakers. For us as students, look especially at the word processor and the diary. Also, if you are studying a second language, from what I've heard Braille Sense and Braille Note are better than Pac Mate. I had a friend who was doing French, and he tells me the pac mate's second language braille capabilities are terrible compared to the other models. Indeed he exchanged his pac mate for a braille note, because he said the French braille he wanted to type was truer on that than the pac mate. I'm not sure in what way, this is just what he told me. From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 15:19:12 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:19:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Message-ID: <510d2ea3.0128650a.19f2.5f28@mx.google.com> Do such signs exist? I've never seen them. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi Moerke wrote: Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you should be good. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis wrote: Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis References: <510d2ea3.0128650a.19f2.5f28@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3A4B35F9EDFD4828A14578D27175A0A3@OwnerPC> Hi, Yes they do exist! I've seen a lot. For instance older elevators have only print; same with restroom signs. Being totally blind, you may not have noticed them. But I've found raised print signs next to bathroom doors. So if you are near a public bathroom, check and you might encounter that with your hand. Signs are typically darker with a different color lettering; Its white on black or black on white if I'm lucky. So I notice them with my vision and can feel the raised print as well if I don't know what it says. Another benefit to feeling raised print is you can sometimes identify credit cards or store discount cards based on their raised print. I've been gambling with my family and I find that the cards sometimes feel different for different hotels which is nice. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:19 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Do such signs exist? I've never seen them. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi Moerke wrote: Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you should be good. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis wrote: Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Damoulakis References: <510d2ea3.0128650a.19f2.5f28@mx.google.com> <3A4B35F9EDFD4828A14578D27175A0A3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: was only very resentley that the disability building that I live in, got brailled elevators. I had to do a lot of talking to the main office. I was in their office almost everyday, I even called the NFB to help me. I have some vission, but it is very unreliable, in reading numbers or any print on sertin backrounds. And we have a few blind people who r total. So I wanted things to be easier, for them, and or new blind tenants, and or blind visiters. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Feb 2, 2013, at 11:11, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi, > Yes they do exist! I've seen a lot. For instance older elevators have only print; same with restroom signs. > Being totally blind, you may not have noticed them. But I've found raised print signs next to bathroom doors. > So if you are near a public bathroom, check and you might encounter that with your hand. > Signs are typically darker with a different color lettering; Its white on black or black on white if I'm lucky. > So I notice them with my vision and can feel the raised print as well if I don't know what it says. > Another benefit to feeling raised print is you can sometimes identify credit cards or store discount cards based on their raised print. > I've been gambling with my family and I find that the cards sometimes feel different for different hotels which is nice. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Do such signs exist? I've never seen them. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jedi Moerke To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:59:40 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Learning to read raised print is a helpful skill. You can use > this skill to read signs that are in tactile print but not > braille. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: > > Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the > U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, > I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print > letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad > because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you > should be good. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi Sophie and Carly > Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni > for > example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does > use > jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use > audio > you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just > that, > but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that > even now > when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise > what > I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person > doesn't > learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what > an > alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then > just > somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming > they > haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some > other > way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use > sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and > numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are > for > example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the > rest, > even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do > forget. > But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people > in > the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the > teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how > lettres > fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just > sort > of abstract sounds? > Ari > > On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a > backup, > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids > must > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or > have > a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it > and > read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, > a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the > point > if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you > guys > have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able > to > read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 2 16:32:48 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:32:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Kaiti, Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way to a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz there. I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about taking class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash drive, I could read it. Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." Gee! If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the darn testhing center. I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so I know how they are worded. Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I might need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I read my memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can make other arrangements. Yay. It says Systems include: Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread it and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only accomodations I can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, I think this sheet is on my side. My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; I had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume you're going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take these short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than simply taking the short quiz in the building. So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to sit down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. IMO, it makes it easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for quizzes then which can be a hastle. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests Hi, Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a different matter entirely. Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save you time after class. On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? > Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to > disabled > students. > > At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students > got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. > I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader > usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it > was an essay exam. > > At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there > in > a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. > They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I > opt > to read it on the pc. > > Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams in > a > separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? > I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else > out; > for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. > > Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own > equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with > professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing > office. > > I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the > testing > center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right > there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring > a > laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask the > disability counseling center about this. > I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; > this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get > the > sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that > that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that > building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than > walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. > > > She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format > electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me to > take it on a electronic device. > > > Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds > reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the > quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 16:46:52 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:46:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> Dear Shelby, First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more time for scanning. As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. --Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: > Hi, > My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What are different ways you take notes in class? > Thanks in advance for any information. > Shelby > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 16:55:05 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:55:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille References: <510d2ea3.0128650a.19f2.5f28@mx.google.com> <3A4B35F9EDFD4828A14578D27175A0A3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, I also look for raised print signs, although I am totally blind and just feel around for them when I am near rooms in a building that might possibly have the room number in raised print and sometimes even Braille. Most public bathrooms have raised print signs also, and so do most elevators. Also, I have even noticed that some front desks have raised print signs attached to the front of the desk where I can feel engraved or raised letters, but I have only come across that a few times. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > Hi, > Yes they do exist! I've seen a lot. For instance older elevators have > only print; same with restroom signs. > Being totally blind, you may not have noticed them. But I've found raised > print signs next to bathroom doors. > So if you are near a public bathroom, check and you might encounter that > with your hand. > Signs are typically darker with a different color lettering; Its white on > black or black on white if I'm lucky. > So I notice them with my vision and can feel the raised print as well if > I don't know what it says. > Another benefit to feeling raised print is you can sometimes identify > credit cards or store discount cards based on their raised print. > I've been gambling with my family and I find that the cards sometimes feel > different for different hotels which is nice. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Do such signs exist? I've never seen them. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jedi Moerke To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:59:40 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Learning to read raised print is a helpful skill. You can use > this skill to read signs that are in tactile print but not > braille. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: > > Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the > U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, > I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print > letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad > because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you > should be good. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi Sophie and Carly > Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni > for > example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does > use > jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use > audio > you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just > that, > but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that > even now > when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise > what > I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person > doesn't > learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what > an > alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then > just > somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming > they > haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some > other > way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use > sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and > numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are > for > example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the > rest, > even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do > forget. > But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people > in > the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the > teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how > lettres > fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just > sort > of abstract sounds? > Ari > > On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a > backup, > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids > must > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Hi everyone > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > sad. I > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or > have > a > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > audio, > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > not > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > paper. I > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it > and > read > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > language or > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > etc, but > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > lovely > thing! > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > you > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > looking > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > help > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > have > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, > a > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > couldn't > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > that > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > braille. > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > books > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > to > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > these > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > the > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > don't > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > even if > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > 6 > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > prices > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > electronic > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > tragic > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > aren't > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the > point > if > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you > guys > have > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > want in > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > prices > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able > to > read > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > Ari > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 16:59:02 2013 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:59:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > Dear Shelby, > First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book > share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of > those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college > campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it > because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more > time for scanning. > As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. > First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the > textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my > bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling > and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my > braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. > --Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: > >> Hi, >> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >> are different ways you take notes in class? >> Thanks in advance for any information. >> Shelby >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From gcazares10 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 19:46:38 2013 From: gcazares10 at gmail.com (Gabe Cazares) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 13:46:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing Your Help for the 2013 NABS Cafe Message-ID: <000001ce017e$04e77db0$0eb67910$@com> Hi Friends, As many of you know, on Monday February 4, 2013 the National Association of Blind Students will be hosting the 2013 NABS Café in Discovery Room I and II shortly after the end of The Great Gathering In. This event promises to be one that you don’t want to miss! However, in order to insure its success I am in need of some of your assistance. The following shifts need to be covered: Auction Tables Staff: the people behind the tables will be responsible for taking bids during the silent portion of our auction, as well as insuring that our items remain at their assigned table. All auction table shifts run from 8:00 PM-9:30 PM. Table 1: I am needing one more person for this time slot. Table 2: I am needing one more person for this time slot. Table 3: I am needing two people for this time slot. Table 4: I am needing two people for this time slot. Marshals: We are always incredibly appreciative of those folks who are directing us to our desired events at NFB functions, and this go around is no different. I am looking for a group of four or five loud and friendly individuals who don’t mind volunteering about an hour of their time to help us marshal. This shift will run from shortly after the conclusion of The Great Gathering In to about 8:15 PM. If you are interested in helping out with any of these shifts, please Email me off list at: gcazares at nfbtx.org I’m looking forward to a very successful NABS Café, with your help of course! All the best. ...Gabe Gabe Cazares Chair, NABS Fundraising Committee From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Feb 2 20:17:30 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 12:17:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <36936F3967CD410798CC27E073F01DA8@acerd37f251f21> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <36936F3967CD410798CC27E073F01DA8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130202060318.01c7e7e0@comcast.net> Good morning, Misty, Actually, Misty, I enjoy a mixed bag of readers, believing a strand of the otherwise palid RFB experience, something a little more interesting because the RFB experience can get pretty borring, as audio books go.Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >Hi, >I agree with you about Learning Ally. It would be nice to get >textbooks in Braille, and then it would be more equal, since sighted >people read in print and can skim the chapters. Also, Learning Ally >books are rather frustrating to read due to the change of the >readers' voices every few pages, so you have to get used to a new >voice for every few pages you listen to. >I agree that audio is more cost-effective and less bulky, but it >would be nice to actually be able to read a Braille textbook in the >same way that a sighted person would read a print textbook, and it >would be more efficient for in-class discussions and assignments as >well, because you don't have to try to listen to the book while also >trying to listen to the teacher or your fellow classmates. . >Thanks, >Misty > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > >>Braille is an interesting topic! >>I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >>It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.) >>I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >>Those chapters are so long! >>Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >>I don't need all of that! >>I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and >>leave out all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into >>Braille for the blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >>With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I >>need to know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >>That's not efficient at all! >>We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, >>as opposed to audio! >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle >>Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com] >>Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >>Hi all, >>The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >>portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >>means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >>that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >>includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >>kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >>vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >>how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >>proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >>15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >>because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >>probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >>enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >>as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >>Arielle >> >>On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>Ari, >>> >>>Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>>braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>>for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>>more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>>braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>>visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>>areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>>child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>>usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>>teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>>have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>>parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>>teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>>spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>>large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>> >>>Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>>with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>>intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>>after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>>graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>> >>>On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>Hi Ari and all, >>>> >>>>I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>>Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>>not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>>but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>>love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>>that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>>certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>>that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>>te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>>20 or 25 dollars max. >>>> >>>>The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>>braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>>tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>>literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>>technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>>died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>>didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>>worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>>parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>>kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>>It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>>hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>> >>>>On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>>Sophie, >>>>>That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the >>>>>United States. :-) >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>>library >>>>>>for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>>national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>>before >>>>>>I >>>>>>sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is >>>>>>a >>>>>>lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>>appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what >>>>>>a >>>>>>lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>>know >>>>>>as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>>learning >>>>>>braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn >>>>>>print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>>bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>>$20-30, >>>>>>braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi everyone >>>>>>I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>>>can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>>book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio, >>>>>>and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>>actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>>just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>>>love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read >>>>>>it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>>>even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but >>>>>>I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>>thing! >>>>>>Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>>guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>>on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>>>me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>>>to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>>dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>>friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't >>>>>>believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>>>maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>>But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>>>you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>>maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>>organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>>books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>>know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>>>I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>>months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>>>like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>>>version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>>and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>>bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>>you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have >>>>>>a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in >>>>>>braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>>that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read >>>>>>1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>>Ari >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Kaiti >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Kaiti >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 21:24:58 2013 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:24:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter 2013 Student Slate Message-ID: <510d842f.027cec0a.1f87.033e@mx.google.com> Can someone please send me the link for the Winter 2013 Student Slate? I'd like to download a copy of it. From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 21:25:08 2013 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:25:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Re- New On The List. Message-ID: <510d8439.027cec0a.1f87.034c@mx.google.com> Dear Shelby, It all depends on your learning style. I use both braille and audio to complete my schoolwork. I use audio to listen to my textbooks and my BrailleNote to complete my assignments and take notes. Learning braille and listening to your textbooks are helpful. From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sat Feb 2 21:43:43 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 16:43:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter 2013 Student Slate In-Reply-To: <510d842f.027cec0a.1f87.033e@mx.google.com> References: <510d842f.027cec0a.1f87.033e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I believe the link for the Student Slate can be found on the NABS webpage. The NABS webpage is: www.nabslink.org. I hope this gets you in the right direction for finding the link. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roanna Baccchus" Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 4:24 PM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Winter 2013 Student Slate > Can someone please send me the link for the Winter 2013 Student Slate? I'd > like to download a copy of it. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 22:45:32 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:45:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't want to get too into it without knowing all the details. Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and quizzes in word anyway. I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue like this with her again. HTH On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > > Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way to > > a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz there. > I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about taking > > class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; > I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash drive, I > > could read it. > Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." Gee! > > If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the > darn testhing center. > > I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about > questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. > I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so I > know how they are worded. > > Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the > quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I might > need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I > could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I read my > > memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can make > > other arrangements. Yay. > It says > Systems include: > Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral > administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. > > The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread it > and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only accomodations I > > can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, I > think this sheet is on my side. > > My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; I > had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the > counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume you're > > going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take these > > short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take > longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than simply > > taking the short quiz in the building. > > So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the > professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to sit > > down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. > That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. IMO, > > it makes it > easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for quizzes > > then which can be a hastle. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests > > Hi, > > Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for > something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except > for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a > different matter entirely. > Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at > my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe > or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I > agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. > > My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone > else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to > put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular > time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save > you time after class. > > On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >> disabled >> students. >> >> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students >> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader >> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it >> was an essay exam. >> >> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there >> >> in >> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I >> opt >> to read it on the pc. >> >> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams in >> >> a >> separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? >> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else >> out; >> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >> >> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >> office. >> >> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >> testing >> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right >> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring >> >> a >> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >> the >> disability counseling center about this. >> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; >> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get >> the >> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that >> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than >> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >> >> >> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format >> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me >> to >> take it on a electronic device. >> >> >> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the >> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From iperrault at hotmail.com Sat Feb 2 23:43:39 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 18:43:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi I agree that it would be much easier to just take a quiz on your Braille Note if your professor puts it on a flash drive. I don't usually like to do this, but I would put your professor in your shoes for a minute. Say what if you were totally blind? What would you do in this situation? Would you want to walk all the way to the testing center for a five or ten-minute quiz? It often helps to call them out, or people in general by asking them that, if they think that something is either easier or more practical then they think it is! From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Feb 2 23:47:02 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:47:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <3A4B35F9EDFD4828A14578D27175A0A3@OwnerPC> References: <510d2ea3.0128650a.19f2.5f28@mx.google.com> <3A4B35F9EDFD4828A14578D27175A0A3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130202154129.01c6b308@comcast.net> Good morning, Ashley and List, For me, not being able to decipher raised print is almost, but not quite as bad as not being able to glean an image of the immediate environment, using flash sonar or echolocation. AM 2/2/2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Hi, >Yes they do exist! I've seen a lot. For instance older >elevators have only print; same with restroom signs. >Being totally blind, you may not have noticed them. But I've >found raised print signs next to bathroom doors. >So if you are near a public bathroom, check and you might encounter >that with your hand. >Signs are typically darker with a different color lettering; Its >white on black or black on white if I'm lucky. >So I notice them with my vision and can feel the raised print as >well if I don't know what it says. >Another benefit to feeling raised print is you can sometimes >identify credit cards or store discount cards based on their raised print. >I've been gambling with my family and I find that the cards >sometimes feel different for different hotels which is nice. > >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:19 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > >Do such signs exist? I've never seen them. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jedi Moerke To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:59:40 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > >Learning to read raised print is a helpful skill. You can use >this skill to read signs that are in tactile print but not >braille. > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Feb 1, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: > >Ari, for one, I am so sorry I didn't know you don't live in the >U.S. Also, I didn't know blind people could learn print. I mean, >I can sign my name, but other than that, I do not know any print >letters and have no desire or need to learn them. Don't feel bad >because you don't know print. As long as you know braille you >should be good. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ari Damoulakis To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:41:20 +0200 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > >Hi Sophie and Carly >Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni >for >example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does >use >jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use >audio >you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just >that, >but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that >even now >when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise >what >I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person >doesn't >learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what >an >alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then >just >somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming >they >haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some >other >way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are >for >example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the >rest, >even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do >forget. >But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people >in >the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how >lettres >fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just >sort >of abstract sounds? >Ari > >On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a >backup, >you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids >must >learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ari Damoulakis To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > >Hi everyone >I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >sad. I >can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or >have >a >book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >audio, >and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >not >just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >paper. I >love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it >and >read >it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >language or >even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >etc, but >I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >lovely >thing! >Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >you >guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >looking >on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >help >me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >have >to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, >a >friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >couldn't >believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >that >maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >braille. >But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >books >you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >to >maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >these >organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >the >books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >don't >know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >even if >I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >6 >months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >prices >like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >electronic >version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >tragic >and I think I can now understand why many people there just >aren't >bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the >point >if >you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you >guys >have >a great library but what happens if there are books you really >want in >braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >prices >that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able >to >read >1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >Ari > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info >for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis >%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >%40samobile.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Feb 3 00:07:05 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:07:05 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille reading, although I resist such a classification since my understanding of the code endures. Car Damoulakis wrote: >Hi Sophie and Carly >Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >of abstract sounds? >Ari > >On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, > > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must > > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ari Damoulakis > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > > > Hi everyone > > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > > sad. I > > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have > > a > > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > > audio, > > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > > not > > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > > paper. I > > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and > > read > > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > > language or > > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > > etc, but > > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > > lovely > > thing! > > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > > you > > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > > looking > > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > > help > > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > > have > > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a > > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > > couldn't > > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > > that > > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > > braille. > > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > > books > > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > > to > > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > > these > > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > > the > > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > > don't > > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > > even if > > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > > 6 > > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > > prices > > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > > electronic > > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > > tragic > > and I think I can now understand why many people there just > > aren't > > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point > > if > > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys > > have > > a great library but what happens if there are books you really > > want in > > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > > prices > > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to > > read > > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > > Ari > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > r%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dsykora29 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 01:52:53 2013 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 20:52:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Hi Shelby, Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. Danielle On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, > > then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my > doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > >> Dear Shelby, >> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >> >> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >> >> time for scanning. >> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >> >> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >> --Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>> >>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>> >>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>> >>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>> Shelby >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 02:05:40 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 02:05:40 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>, Message-ID: Hey Danielle! Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems logging on to Bookshare? I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," nothing comes up to remind me! I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this list, but haven't heard anything! Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora [dsykora29 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list Hi Shelby, Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. Danielle On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, > > then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my > doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > >> Dear Shelby, >> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >> >> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >> >> time for scanning. >> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >> >> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >> --Jewel >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>> >>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>> >>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>> >>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>> Shelby >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:04:24 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 20:04:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Sophie, Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling > well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought > to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was > a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that > people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire > know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? > Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille > reading, although I resist such a classification since my > understanding of the code endures. > Car Damoulakis wrote: >>Hi Sophie and Carly >>Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >>example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >>jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >>you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >>but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >>when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >>I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >>learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >>alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >>somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >>haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >>way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >>sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >>numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >>example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >>even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >>But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >>the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >>teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >>fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >>of abstract sounds? >>Ari >> >>On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> > Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >> > library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >> > or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >> > braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >> > say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >> > books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >> > electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >> > realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >> > you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >> > braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >> > learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >> > rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >> > book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Ari Damoulakis > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> > >> > Hi everyone >> > I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >> > sad. I >> > can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >> > a >> > book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >> > audio, >> > and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >> > actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >> > not >> > just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >> > paper. I >> > love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >> > read >> > it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >> > language or >> > even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >> > etc, but >> > I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >> > lovely >> > thing! >> > Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >> > you >> > guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >> > looking >> > on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >> > help >> > me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >> > have >> > to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >> > dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >> > friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >> > couldn't >> > believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >> > that >> > maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >> > braille. >> > But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >> > books >> > you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >> > to >> > maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >> > these >> > organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >> > the >> > books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >> > don't >> > know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >> > even if >> > I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >> > 6 >> > months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >> > prices >> > like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >> > electronic >> > version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >> > tragic >> > and I think I can now understand why many people there just >> > aren't >> > bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >> > if >> > you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >> > have >> > a great library but what happens if there are books you really >> > want in >> > braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >> > prices >> > that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >> > read >> > 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >> > Ari >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> > r%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:05:45 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:05:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> Joshua, When you click on forgot password, what does come up? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hey Danielle! > Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems logging on to Bookshare? > I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," nothing comes up to remind me! > I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this list, but haven't heard anything! > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora [dsykora29 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Hi Shelby, > Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In > class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. > As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. > Danielle > > On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, >> >> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my >> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> >>> Dear Shelby, >>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >>> >>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >>> >>> time for scanning. >>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >>> >>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>> --Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>>> >>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>>> >>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>>> >>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>> Shelby >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:07:12 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:07:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but maybe it does. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Sophie, > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. > > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >> understanding of the code endures. >> Car Damoulakis wrote: >>> Hi Sophie and Carly >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >>> of abstract sounds? >>> Ari >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>> >>>> Hi everyone >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >>>> sad. I >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >>>> a >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>> audio, >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >>>> not >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >>>> paper. I >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>> read >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >>>> language or >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >>>> etc, but >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >>>> lovely >>>> thing! >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >>>> you >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >>>> looking >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>>> help >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>>> have >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>> couldn't >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>>> that >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >>>> braille. >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>>> books >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >>>> to >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >>>> these >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >>>> the >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >>>> don't >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >>>> even if >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >>>> 6 >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>>> prices >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>>> electronic >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >>>> tragic >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >>>> aren't >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >>>> if >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>> have >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >>>> want in >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >>>> prices >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>> read >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>> Ari >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:08:57 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:08:57 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> , <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: The main homepage is all that's there. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list Joshua, When you click on forgot password, what does come up? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hey Danielle! > Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems logging on to Bookshare? > I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," nothing comes up to remind me! > I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this list, but haven't heard anything! > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora [dsykora29 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Hi Shelby, > Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In > class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. > As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. > Danielle > > On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, >> >> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my >> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> >>> Dear Shelby, >>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >>> >>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >>> >>> time for scanning. >>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >>> >>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>> --Jewel >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>>> >>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>>> >>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>>> >>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>> Shelby >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:16:48 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:16:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2760809655420402176@unknownmsgid> Hmm...Have you tried refreshing the page? In Internet explorer, this is done by pressing F5. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > The main homepage is all that's there. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Joshua, > > When you click on forgot password, what does come up? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Hey Danielle! >> Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems logging on to Bookshare? >> I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," nothing comes up to remind me! >> I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this list, but haven't heard anything! >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora [dsykora29 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> Hi Shelby, >> Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In >> class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. >> As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. >> Danielle >> >> On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, >>> >>> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my >>> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>> >>> >>>> Dear Shelby, >>>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >>>> >>>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >>>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >>>> >>>> time for scanning. >>>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >>>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >>>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >>>> >>>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>>> --Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>>>> >>>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>>>> >>>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>>>> >>>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>>> Shelby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:21:31 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:21:31 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: <2760809655420402176@unknownmsgid> References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> , <2760809655420402176@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Yes I have. Others have been complaining about glitches in Bookshare, on this list for a while. I need a book downloaded, for one of my weekend classes. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list Hmm...Have you tried refreshing the page? In Internet explorer, this is done by pressing F5. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > The main homepage is all that's there. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Joshua, > > When you click on forgot password, what does come up? > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Hey Danielle! >> Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems logging on to Bookshare? >> I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," nothing comes up to remind me! >> I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this list, but haven't heard anything! >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora [dsykora29 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> Hi Shelby, >> Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In >> class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. >> As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. >> Danielle >> >> On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio learner, >>> >>> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with my >>> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>> >>> >>>> Dear Shelby, >>>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my college >>>> >>>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan it >>>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have more >>>> >>>> time for scanning. >>>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of classes. >>>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use my >>>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn spelling >>>> >>>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>>> --Jewel >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am wondering >>>>> >>>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend getting >>>>> >>>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. Do >>>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? What >>>>> >>>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>>> Shelby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:24:32 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:24:32 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! Message-ID: Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" What's that all about? http://www.helpsministryinc.org Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we must fight to make all Websites accessible. Thanks, Joshua From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:31:03 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:31:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> Sure looks like an inaccessible Website to me. I would see if you could find some way to contact the makers of this website (if you can even get that far) and tell them about your problems and the importance of accessibility. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? > When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! > Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" > What's that all about? > http://www.helpsministryinc.org > Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we must fight to make all Websites accessible. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:34:25 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:34:25 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! In-Reply-To: <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> References: , <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I can't get any contact information. This is crazy! It beats all I've ever heard! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! Sure looks like an inaccessible Website to me. I would see if you could find some way to contact the makers of this website (if you can even get that far) and tell them about your problems and the importance of accessibility. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? > When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! > Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" > What's that all about? > http://www.helpsministryinc.org > Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we must fight to make all Websites accessible. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:52:41 2013 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:52:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! In-Reply-To: References: <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-4762328433669757894@unknownmsgid> Well yes, the site is certainly in Japanese. What I mean is that it is written in Japanese because when I went to it with my phone it spoke Japanese. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I can't get any contact information. > This is crazy! > It beats all I've ever heard! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! > > Sure looks like an inaccessible Website to me. I would see if you > could find some way to contact the makers of this website (if you can > even get that far) and tell them about your problems and the > importance of accessibility. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? >> When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! >> Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" >> What's that all about? >> http://www.helpsministryinc.org >> Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we must fight to make all Websites accessible. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:53:24 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 22:53:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> <2760809655420402176@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi, I don't know the hours of opperation for tech support off the top of my head, but if you're having this problem you might be able to get it changed over the phone. I had to do it a few years ago because I needed it changed but didn't have a computer to gain access to do it myself. Their tech support is really helpful about stuff like that and if you mention what you're experiencing to them while you've got them on the phone then they'll most likely get right to fixing the web page. I don't think you'll be able to get ahold of them by phone till Monday, but you can try. On 2/2/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Yes I have. > Others have been complaining about glitches in Bookshare, on this list for a > while. > I need a book downloaded, for one of my weekend classes. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum > [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Hmm...Have you tried refreshing the page? In Internet explorer, this > is done by pressing F5. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> The main homepage is all that's there. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum >> [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> Joshua, >> >> When you click on forgot password, what does come up? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Hey Danielle! >>> Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems >>> logging on to Bookshare? >>> I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," >>> nothing comes up to remind me! >>> I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this >>> list, but haven't heard anything! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora >>> [dsykora29 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>> >>> Hi Shelby, >>> Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In >>> class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. >>> As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>>> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio >>>> learner, >>>> >>>> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with >>>> my >>>> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Shelby, >>>>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>>>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>>>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my >>>>> college >>>>> >>>>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan >>>>> it >>>>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have >>>>> more >>>>> >>>>> time for scanning. >>>>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of >>>>> classes. >>>>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>>>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use >>>>> my >>>>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn >>>>> spelling >>>>> >>>>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>>>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>>>> --Jewel >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am >>>>>> wondering >>>>>> >>>>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend >>>>>> getting >>>>>> >>>>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. >>>>>> Do >>>>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? >>>>>> What >>>>>> >>>>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>>>> Shelby >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:55:04 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:55:04 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! In-Reply-To: <-4762328433669757894@unknownmsgid> References: <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> , <-4762328433669757894@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hmmm! Someone must have taken this preacher's Website over, and changed it up. Hmmm! There still ought to be a link that says, "Translate this page." Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of josh gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! Well yes, the site is certainly in Japanese. What I mean is that it is written in Japanese because when I went to it with my phone it spoke Japanese. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I can't get any contact information. > This is crazy! > It beats all I've ever heard! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! > > Sure looks like an inaccessible Website to me. I would see if you > could find some way to contact the makers of this website (if you can > even get that far) and tell them about your problems and the > importance of accessibility. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? >> When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! >> Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" >> What's that all about? >> http://www.helpsministryinc.org >> Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we must fight to make all Websites accessible. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 3 03:56:27 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 03:56:27 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list In-Reply-To: References: <900D0C4C-29B6-41A4-B4C1-B151A179746A@yahoo.com> <382ECE2D-B0FA-41CF-B97F-F6932DB2B651@gmail.com> <000301ce0166$9b1e9dd0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <-3921083171234589558@unknownmsgid> <2760809655420402176@unknownmsgid> , Message-ID: I'll call them Monday afternoon. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kaiti Shelton [crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list Hi, I don't know the hours of opperation for tech support off the top of my head, but if you're having this problem you might be able to get it changed over the phone. I had to do it a few years ago because I needed it changed but didn't have a computer to gain access to do it myself. Their tech support is really helpful about stuff like that and if you mention what you're experiencing to them while you've got them on the phone then they'll most likely get right to fixing the web page. I don't think you'll be able to get ahold of them by phone till Monday, but you can try. On 2/2/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Yes I have. > Others have been complaining about glitches in Bookshare, on this list for a > while. > I need a book downloaded, for one of my weekend classes. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum > [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list > > Hmm...Have you tried refreshing the page? In Internet explorer, this > is done by pressing F5. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> The main homepage is all that's there. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum >> [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >> >> Joshua, >> >> When you click on forgot password, what does come up? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Hey Danielle! >>> Maybe you and others might be able to help me, but I've had problems >>> logging on to Bookshare? >>> I don't remember my password, but when I click on "Forgot Password," >>> nothing comes up to remind me! >>> I've contacted one of the representatives, who is also a member of this >>> list, but haven't heard anything! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Danielle Sykora >>> [dsykora29 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 7:52 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>> >>> Hi Shelby, >>> Welcome to the list. I usually obtain my textbooks from bookshare. In >>> class, I use my laptop with jaws and a braille display to take notes. >>> As others have said, it all depends on the way you learn best. >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 2/2/13, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>>> Dear Shelby, I think it depends how you learn. If you are an audio >>>> learner, >>>> >>>> then go with learning alie. I'm two courses away from graduating with >>>> my >>>> doctor of theology. What did you use in high school? RJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New on the list >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Shelby, >>>>> First, about textbooks. I look for my textbooks on learning Ally book >>>>> share and MLS in that order. If I cannot find my text books in any of >>>>> those locations, then I go to my disability support services on my >>>>> college >>>>> >>>>> campus and request that the book be scanned. I request that they scan >>>>> it >>>>> because they are scanning technology is better and because they have >>>>> more >>>>> >>>>> time for scanning. >>>>> As for browed displays, I use a focus 40 blue for two types of >>>>> classes. >>>>> First, I insist on using a braille display for math classes If the >>>>> textbook is available only as a word document. Second, I like to use >>>>> my >>>>> bro display for foreign-language classes. This allows me to learn >>>>> spelling >>>>> >>>>> and grammar along with the actual vocabulary. I also enjoy using my >>>>> braille display to read literature stories when I have the time. >>>>> --Jewel >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Shelby Young >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> My name is Shelby. I am going to start school in the fall. I am >>>>>> wondering >>>>>> >>>>>> Where is the best place to get my text books? Would you recommend >>>>>> getting >>>>>> >>>>>> them on audio or getting the print copy and scanning them on my Mac. >>>>>> Do >>>>>> some of you use brille displays, and if so what is your preference? >>>>>> What >>>>>> >>>>>> are different ways you take notes in class? >>>>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>>>> Shelby >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Feb 3 12:36:14 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 04:36:14 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> Good morning, Chris, and ALL, An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having this puzzle as a kid, made of wood, with letters. I would put the puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at least legibly. Car: >Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about >reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I >have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the >shapes of the print letters Never thought it mattered to me, but >maybe it does. > >Chris Nusbaum > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Sophie, > > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them > > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy > > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. > > > > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling > >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought > >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was > >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that > >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire > >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? > >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille > >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my > >> understanding of the code endures. > >> Car Damoulakis wrote: > >>> Hi Sophie and Carly > >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for > >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use > >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio > >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, > >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now > >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what > >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't > >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an > >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just > >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they > >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other > >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use > >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and > >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for > >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, > >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. > >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in > >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the > >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres > >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort > >>> of abstract sounds? > >>> Ari > >>> > >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state > >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) > >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my > >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll > >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille > >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because > >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't > >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, > >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning > >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must > >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long > >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print > >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > >>>> > >>>> Hi everyone > >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and > >>>> sad. I > >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have > >>>> a > >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and > >>>> audio, > >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I > >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and > >>>> not > >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but > >>>> paper. I > >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and > >>>> read > >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a > >>>> language or > >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws > >>>> etc, but > >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a > >>>> lovely > >>>> thing! > >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much > >>>> you > >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was > >>>> looking > >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to > >>>> help > >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys > >>>> have > >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 > >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a > >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he > >>>> couldn't > >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact > >>>> that > >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in > >>>> braille. > >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal > >>>> books > >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have > >>>> to > >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why > >>>> these > >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print > >>>> the > >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I > >>>> don't > >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here > >>>> even if > >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about > >>>> 6 > >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible > >>>> prices > >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an > >>>> electronic > >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and > >>>> tragic > >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just > >>>> aren't > >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point > >>>> if > >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys > >>>> have > >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really > >>>> want in > >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the > >>>> prices > >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to > >>>> read > >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! > >>>> Ari > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>> r%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From theweird1 at centurylink.net Sun Feb 3 15:07:38 2013 From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 09:07:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] request Message-ID: <004501ce0220$3580b700$a0822500$@centurylink.net> Is anyone out there attending Liberty University, either on campus or online? If so, please write me offlist. I have several questions about their online offerings. Please me at: theweird1 at centurylink.net Thanks. Loren From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Feb 3 15:42:27 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 07:42:27 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> Good morning, Ashley, Best way I found to "educate" is to demonstrate just what we are capable of, through sheer doing, and attitude. Sounds to me like you got a bit of a chip on your shoulder and, I imagine that's why building bridges linking you, and your peers doesn't seem to come naturally. What do you think? A suggestion would be to just act naturally, letting them come to you, asking to be grouped with you. It is true it doesn't happen immediately, like everything, it does take some doing. Don't be afraid of that doing. Car, you wrote: >Ari, Thanks; great points. at work we will know >each other and be a cohesive team, not strangers >put together for a 16 week term to learn a >subject. I talk to students around me; sometimes >it helps, but sometimes it doesn't help me get >included in a group discussion. I will have to >ask the professor to assist me in finding a >group to work with. Additionally, she has group >discussions most class periods and then asks >each group leader to speak to the class as to >what they answered. Often I enjoy group >discussions; but this time it’s a bit >frustrating. Why? Because, I have to find a >group and ask neighbors. I am put in the >position to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your >group? This means I have to usually interrupt >them since they're already looking at each other >and/or getting started. Also, it’s a crowded >room and I find the noise level too much. I >cannot get a sense of who said what in the group >or even what question we're on. I'll explain >what we do. The professor gives us like four or >five questions. She says get in groups of about >five people. One student is the scribe. He/she >is responsible for writing down the answers to >questions. He/she also will place everyone's >name on the paper so we all get class >participation credit. Finally, after we discuss >as a class, the scribe hands in the completed >copy to the professor. One student is the >spokesperson for each small group. So when we >discuss as a class, there are five or six people >speaking and she goes around the room >systematically. Sometimes she asks for >volunteers as well; so then a group member calls >out and shares their stuff. For the group >project, I am not looking forward to it. It is >an assignment where we have to make a skit for a >mock tv program illustrating sociological >concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even >begin. I do not watch much tv; and certainly not >reality tv shows! As to the other suggestions, I >did those. Kaiti, I do ask students around me, >but as I said before, they are already paired in >groups for the project. Brandon, asking students >around you does not always work if they already >know who they want to work with. They might even >recognize people from another class, in this >case sociology 201. I don't know who is sitting >by me all the time; it changes from time to >time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not >hear them often! I don't have the benefit of >recognizing people by face. As for educating and >interacting with people outside class, um forget >it! People don't interact much outside classes. >I'm there as continuing education while I look >for work. These additional courses such as >business writing, intro to business and >technical editing will boost my resume as a way >to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows >I'm a good writer from writing samples and >professor recommendations. I know it’s a >commuter community college; no sense of >community. I tried and tried to form study >groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get >a study partner and that was cause I asked him. >we chatted before class and he seemed mature and >friendly. Frankly, I go to school to study and >learn, not to be a ambassador for the legally >blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole >life, I'd work for a blindness agency doing >outreach work or something of that nature. I >will answer questions about blindness or braille >or whatever if they ask. But I want to be myself >and talk about lots of other things besides >visual impairment. I have a lot of other >opinions and things to share about me than the >characteristic of partial vision. So, I do not >buy this line that if we go out and educate >people that they will accept us. If people get >to know me, they will accept me for who I am >including my personality, values, and me being >legally blind. I don't make a big deal about >being almost blind. Besides students simply >study there and leave for home; very little time >to interact outside class unless you are in a >club. Thanks for the thoughts and I'll work on >getting a group to be in next class. Ashley >-----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis >Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM To: >National Association of Blind Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues >Hi Ashley I couldn't agree with you more on >group projects and the issues people have with >them. There are many blindness-type related >issues. Like you, when it comes to being an >individual and participating in class, I do >participate and get complemented, but their are >many blind issues with group projects that I can >think of. The first issue is when group projects >are announced. Lecture rooms are so huge and so >many people are in the classes that the first >problem is finding the people you know from that >class. What normally happens with me is that >because obviously you can't look and find your >friends in class, you generally have to wait >after class to SMS them to see if they have a >group and whether their group has room etc. If >it is a class where you don't really know >anyone, I think your idea is right, just find >people nearer to you and try ask if you can >join. The next problem you then have is if you >actually do do that, because most of the time, >even though they know you might be smart in the >real class, somehow many people when having to >try actually talk to and interact with a blind >person somehow has a problem. When your group >members are discussing what tasks everyone >should be doing you have to ask one of them >"what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do >x or y." If you don't you stand the risk that >they just ignore you. It is interesting to see >that your group members interact virtually. >Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet >somewhere to discuss. You are right that most >times people don't do things and so on, but to >be really honest with you when it comes to group >work at university I wouldn't really be too >worried because this is probably not how things >will work in later life. I'm not talking about >the people doing nothing etc, I'm rather talking >about when you get a job. If you get a job and >have to work together as a group you probably >won't have to worry too much because you'd be >working with people you would work with >everyday, and they would over time become used >to seeing you as being a capable person, >therefore if you have group projects in the work >place they'd help you more. With university you >probably just meet people and work with them >once-off, so don't be too worried. Lecturers >probably can also see who worked in the group >and who didn't, but I also don't think they take >group assignments as seriously as individual >ones, because intelligent lecturers are not >blind to the problems that university group >assignments entail, I'm not talking about >specifically blind here, but sighted people in >the group have many of these problems as well, >such as others not doing work etc. For group the >advice I can try give you is don't overstress >yourself, just relax and do the best you can, >because luckily in the real world the university >form of a group assignment where noone knows >anyone else will probably not be bothering you >much. Ari >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 16:17:00 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 09:17:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> <7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> Message-ID: <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> Chris, The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill. You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps. Jedi, I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical suggestions for me other than simple practice? Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Chris, and ALL, > > An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having this puzzle as a kid, made of wood, with letters. I would put the puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at least legibly. > Car: >> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about >> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I >> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the >> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but >> maybe it does. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> > Sophie, >> > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them >> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy >> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. >> > >> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >> >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >> >> understanding of the code endures. >> >> Car Damoulakis wrote: >> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly >> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >> >>> of abstract sounds? >> >>> Ari >> >>> >> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi everyone >> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >> >>>> sad. I >> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >> >>>> a >> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >> >>>> audio, >> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >> >>>> not >> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >> >>>> paper. I >> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >> >>>> read >> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >> >>>> language or >> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >> >>>> etc, but >> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >> >>>> lovely >> >>>> thing! >> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >> >>>> you >> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >> >>>> looking >> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >> >>>> help >> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >> >>>> have >> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >> >>>> couldn't >> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >> >>>> that >> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >> >>>> braille. >> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >> >>>> books >> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >> >>>> to >> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >> >>>> these >> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >> >>>> the >> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >> >>>> don't >> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >> >>>> even if >> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >> >>>> 6 >> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >> >>>> prices >> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >> >>>> electronic >> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >> >>>> tragic >> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >> >>>> aren't >> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >> >>>> if >> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >> >>>> have >> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >> >>>> want in >> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >> >>>> prices >> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >> >>>> read >> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >> >>>> Ari >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>>> r%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Sun Feb 3 17:50:08 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 09:50:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] New on the list Message-ID: <1359913808.87776.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> BS"D Shelby, I am studying literature at the university. Right now, I am using audio books because it is the most common format for blind students in my country. When I studied at the municipal adult education I also used e-textbooks. When I studied English and French I preferred e-textbooks because I am not good at learning a new language only virtually. I take notes on my laptop PC with Jaws and a BAUM SuperVario 40 display and my iPhone or iPad with VoiceOver and a BraillePen 12 display. I think that your questions depends on what you are used to and which learning style you have so I think it is important that you are thinking it through before you start school. Which classes will you take? Good Luck! Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:10:57 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 13:10:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carlie, Great way of phrasing it. This is exactly what I meant, to educate by being an example and showing them all you can do. Often people who aren't blind will fixate on blindness as a limitation and underestimate other capabilities. It's not their fault, they just don't know. It's just like how most blind people, and sighted people too, kind of shudder at the thought of being deaf, although deaf people don't even consider themselves as having a disability. (They'll actually be somewhat offended sometimes if you refer to deafness as a disability). Anyway, this is exactly what I meant. Thanks again, Carlie, for your spin on it. Very well said. On 2/3/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, > Ashley, > > Best way I found to "educate" is to demonstrate > just what we are capable of, through sheer doing, > and attitude. Sounds to me like you got a bit of > a chip on your shoulder and, I imagine that's why > building bridges linking you, and your peers > doesn't seem to come naturally. What do you think? > A suggestion would be to just act naturally, > letting them come to you, asking to be grouped > with you. It is true it doesn't happen > immediately, like everything, it does take some > doing. Don't be afraid of that doing. > Car, you wrote: >>Ari, Thanks; great points. at work we will know >>each other and be a cohesive team, not strangers >>put together for a 16 week term to learn a >>subject. I talk to students around me; sometimes >>it helps, but sometimes it doesn't help me get >>included in a group discussion. I will have to >>ask the professor to assist me in finding a >>group to work with. Additionally, she has group >>discussions most class periods and then asks >>each group leader to speak to the class as to >>what they answered. Often I enjoy group >>discussions; but this time it’s a bit >>frustrating. Why? Because, I have to find a >>group and ask neighbors. I am put in the >>position to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your >>group? This means I have to usually interrupt >>them since they're already looking at each other >>and/or getting started. Also, it’s a crowded >>room and I find the noise level too much. I >>cannot get a sense of who said what in the group >>or even what question we're on. I'll explain >>what we do. The professor gives us like four or >>five questions. She says get in groups of about >>five people. One student is the scribe. He/she >>is responsible for writing down the answers to >>questions. He/she also will place everyone's >>name on the paper so we all get class >>participation credit. Finally, after we discuss >>as a class, the scribe hands in the completed >>copy to the professor. One student is the >>spokesperson for each small group. So when we >>discuss as a class, there are five or six people >>speaking and she goes around the room >>systematically. Sometimes she asks for >>volunteers as well; so then a group member calls >>out and shares their stuff. For the group >>project, I am not looking forward to it. It is >>an assignment where we have to make a skit for a >>mock tv program illustrating sociological >>concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even >>begin. I do not watch much tv; and certainly not >>reality tv shows! As to the other suggestions, I >>did those. Kaiti, I do ask students around me, >>but as I said before, they are already paired in >>groups for the project. Brandon, asking students >>around you does not always work if they already >>know who they want to work with. They might even >>recognize people from another class, in this >>case sociology 201. I don't know who is sitting >>by me all the time; it changes from time to >>time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not >>hear them often! I don't have the benefit of >>recognizing people by face. As for educating and >>interacting with people outside class, um forget >>it! People don't interact much outside classes. >>I'm there as continuing education while I look >>for work. These additional courses such as >>business writing, intro to business and >>technical editing will boost my resume as a way >>to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows >>I'm a good writer from writing samples and >>professor recommendations. I know it’s a >>commuter community college; no sense of >>community. I tried and tried to form study >>groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get >>a study partner and that was cause I asked him. >>we chatted before class and he seemed mature and >>friendly. Frankly, I go to school to study and >>learn, not to be a ambassador for the legally >>blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole >>life, I'd work for a blindness agency doing >>outreach work or something of that nature. I >>will answer questions about blindness or braille >>or whatever if they ask. But I want to be myself >>and talk about lots of other things besides >>visual impairment. I have a lot of other >>opinions and things to share about me than the >>characteristic of partial vision. So, I do not >>buy this line that if we go out and educate >>people that they will accept us. If people get >>to know me, they will accept me for who I am >>including my personality, values, and me being >>legally blind. I don't make a big deal about >>being almost blind. Besides students simply >>study there and leave for home; very little time >>to interact outside class unless you are in a >>club. Thanks for the thoughts and I'll work on >>getting a group to be in next class. Ashley >>-----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis >>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM To: >>National Association of Blind Students mailing >>list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues >>Hi Ashley I couldn't agree with you more on >>group projects and the issues people have with >>them. There are many blindness-type related >>issues. Like you, when it comes to being an >>individual and participating in class, I do >>participate and get complemented, but their are >>many blind issues with group projects that I can >>think of. The first issue is when group projects >>are announced. Lecture rooms are so huge and so >>many people are in the classes that the first >>problem is finding the people you know from that >>class. What normally happens with me is that >>because obviously you can't look and find your >>friends in class, you generally have to wait >>after class to SMS them to see if they have a >>group and whether their group has room etc. If >>it is a class where you don't really know >>anyone, I think your idea is right, just find >>people nearer to you and try ask if you can >>join. The next problem you then have is if you >>actually do do that, because most of the time, >>even though they know you might be smart in the >>real class, somehow many people when having to >>try actually talk to and interact with a blind >>person somehow has a problem. When your group >>members are discussing what tasks everyone >>should be doing you have to ask one of them >>"what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do >>x or y." If you don't you stand the risk that >>they just ignore you. It is interesting to see >>that your group members interact virtually. >>Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet >>somewhere to discuss. You are right that most >>times people don't do things and so on, but to >>be really honest with you when it comes to group >>work at university I wouldn't really be too >>worried because this is probably not how things >>will work in later life. I'm not talking about >>the people doing nothing etc, I'm rather talking >>about when you get a job. If you get a job and >>have to work together as a group you probably >>won't have to worry too much because you'd be >>working with people you would work with >>everyday, and they would over time become used >>to seeing you as being a capable person, >>therefore if you have group projects in the work >>place they'd help you more. With university you >>probably just meet people and work with them >>once-off, so don't be too worried. Lecturers >>probably can also see who worked in the group >>and who didn't, but I also don't think they take >>group assignments as seriously as individual >>ones, because intelligent lecturers are not >>blind to the problems that university group >>assignments entail, I'm not talking about >>specifically blind here, but sighted people in >>the group have many of these problems as well, >>such as others not doing work etc. For group the >>advice I can try give you is don't overstress >>yourself, just relax and do the best you can, >>because luckily in the real world the university >>form of a group assignment where noone knows >>anyone else will probably not be bothering you >>much. Ari >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Sun Feb 3 18:12:04 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 10:12:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages Message-ID: <1359915124.88231.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> BS"D Darian, I've studied English and French at the municipal adult education and I hope to be able to studying it at the university. I've had the books both in audio and e-text formats and I couldn't live without neither of them. I did all my assignments and examinations on my laptop PC with help of Jaws and my Braille display. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:50:37 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 12:50:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, I have found it very easy to arrange things for quizzes and tests with my professors. They have preferred not to use the DRC procedures, so I have always taken the quizzes and test in the classroom at the same time as everyone else. I have even been able to ask for extra time when I have needed it. Another thing that really helps is that your professor send you the questions a few minutes before the class starts, so that you can start typing the answers as soon as you enter the classroom. Adriana 2013/2/1, Ashley Bramlett : > Hi all, > > How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? > Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to disabled > students. > > At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students > got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. > I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader > usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it > was an essay exam. > > At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there in > a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. > They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I opt > to read it on the pc. > > Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams in a > separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? > I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else out; > for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. > > Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own > equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with > professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing office. > > I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the testing > center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right > there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring a > laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask the > disability counseling center about this. > I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; > this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get the > sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that > that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that > building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than > walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. > > > She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format > electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me to > take it on a electronic device. > > > Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds > reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the > quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 19:45:29 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 14:45:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Chris, If you learn pring letters, you can decipher it; but if you are completely blind never having been exposed to the print letters, I think it would be kind of time consuming to read raised print tactially. But it is doable. I grew up starting to read print and can still do so so that is an advantage to me. But, to read print tactially, you do it letter by letter and IMO its time consuming. Personally, if the sign isn't in braille too and there are people around, I speak up and ask for the info I need rather than decipher the print sign. What you do is start at the top of each letter with one finger; two fingers will be touching other letters. Trace the letter around systematically to feel its shape.. Then you will know the letter assuming you know the print alphabet. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but maybe it does. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Sophie, > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. > > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >> understanding of the code endures. >> Car Damoulakis wrote: >>> Hi Sophie and Carly >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >>> of abstract sounds? >>> Ari >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>> >>>> Hi everyone >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >>>> sad. I >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >>>> a >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>> audio, >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >>>> not >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >>>> paper. I >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>> read >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >>>> language or >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >>>> etc, but >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >>>> lovely >>>> thing! >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >>>> you >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >>>> looking >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>>> help >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>>> have >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>> couldn't >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>>> that >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >>>> braille. >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>>> books >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >>>> to >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >>>> these >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >>>> the >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >>>> don't >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >>>> even if >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >>>> 6 >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>>> prices >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>>> electronic >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >>>> tragic >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >>>> aren't >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >>>> if >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>> have >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >>>> want in >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >>>> prices >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>> read >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>> Ari >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 19:48:08 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! In-Reply-To: <-4762328433669757894@unknownmsgid> References: <7204607511146449542@unknownmsgid> <-4762328433669757894@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1A6A520373AE4FB7A35F08233B6F7E1F@OwnerPC> well then if its in japanese, Josh won't be able to read it so it’s a language issue not a blindness access one. -----Original Message----- From: josh gregory Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! Well yes, the site is certainly in Japanese. What I mean is that it is written in Japanese because when I went to it with my phone it spoke Japanese. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I can't get any contact information. > This is crazy! > It beats all I've ever heard! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of christopher nusbaum > [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Something I just noticed! > > Sure looks like an inaccessible Website to me. I would see if you > could find some way to contact the makers of this website (if you can > even get that far) and tell them about your problems and the > importance of accessibility. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Can anyone on here explain this wierd thing? >> When I go to this Website, Jaws doesn't read the links! >> Instead, every time I arrow down to one, it just says, "Japanese!" >> What's that all about? >> http://www.helpsministryinc.org >> Although this isn't school related, I bet some colleges have sites like >> this, and it's NFB related, because it's an inaccessible site, and we >> must fight to make all Websites accessible. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 19:53:12 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 14:53:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net><8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid><7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92D66B263F87437A80424393D6FE89F4@OwnerPC> Hi, I deal with engraved print same way if I cannot see it. I touch it letter by letter and feel each letter systematically. Typically from top to bottom. I then follow the zig zag lines if there are any. Letters x, y, and z have diagonal lines in them. I think its much easier to ask someone for the information or read you the sign if there is someone around; seems more efficient and convenient to me. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 11:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Chris, The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill. You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps. Jedi, I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical suggestions for me other than simple practice? Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Chris, and ALL, > > An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having > this puzzle as a kid, made of wood, with letters. I would put the > puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an > understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at > least legibly. > Car: >> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about >> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I >> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the >> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but >> maybe it does. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring >> wrote: >> >> > Sophie, >> > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them >> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy >> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. >> > >> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >> >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >> >> understanding of the code endures. >> >> Car Damoulakis wrote: >> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly >> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even >> >>> now >> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the >> >>> rest, >> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do >> >>> forget. >> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >> >>> of abstract sounds? >> >>> Ari >> >>> >> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi everyone >> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >> >>>> sad. I >> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >> >>>> a >> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >> >>>> audio, >> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >> >>>> not >> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >> >>>> paper. I >> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >> >>>> read >> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >> >>>> language or >> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >> >>>> etc, but >> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >> >>>> lovely >> >>>> thing! >> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >> >>>> you >> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >> >>>> looking >> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >> >>>> help >> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >> >>>> have >> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >> >>>> couldn't >> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >> >>>> that >> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >> >>>> braille. >> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >> >>>> books >> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >> >>>> to >> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >> >>>> these >> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >> >>>> the >> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >> >>>> don't >> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >> >>>> even if >> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >> >>>> 6 >> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >> >>>> prices >> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >> >>>> electronic >> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >> >>>> tragic >> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >> >>>> aren't >> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >> >>>> if >> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >> >>>> have >> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >> >>>> want in >> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >> >>>> prices >> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >> >>>> read >> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >> >>>> Ari >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>>> r%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 20:01:35 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:01:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CFE71C48B944FB6B02660814B8AA9F4@OwnerPC> Carely, Gee, I guess personality comes across different in email. I really don't see me as you said. Further, you did not give specifics as to what educate means so its not exactly helpful. As I said before, I asked around and everyone I asked was in a group. People did not come to me Carley, that is the problem. In class it happens so fast; if you look around before you know it people are already grouped and you are looking for one while they are chattering about the assignment. In other classes, I found simply talking to neighbors worked as some of you mentioned. They don't group themselves as this class does, but simply work with those around them. Keep in mind that you have classes with people and rarely see them again. So its not like they can see you in class A and remember that you were a cheerful contributing person, and then see you in class B and ask you be a member. Now, educating is a great thing. But what I'm asking about is how you can socialize better and form groups without being the odd one out. Finally, if I am being a good student as I am by listening and contributing to class by either questions or answering professor directed questions, I am being part of the class and including myself. I hope I am so called educating by being in class and saying things to contribute. But you can only do so much. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:42 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues Good morning, Ashley, Best way I found to "educate" is to demonstrate just what we are capable of, through sheer doing, and attitude. Sounds to me like you got a bit of a chip on your shoulder and, I imagine that's why building bridges linking you, and your peers doesn't seem to come naturally. What do you think? A suggestion would be to just act naturally, letting them come to you, asking to be grouped with you. It is true it doesn't happen immediately, like everything, it does take some doing. Don't be afraid of that doing. Car, you wrote: >Ari, Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a >cohesive team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a >subject. I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it >doesn't help me get included in a group discussion. I will have to ask the >professor to assist me in finding a group to work with. Additionally, she >has group discussions most class periods and then asks each group leader to >speak to the class as to what they answered. Often I enjoy group >discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating. Why? Because, I have >to find a group and ask neighbors. I am put in the position to ask, Amy, >Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually interrupt them >since they're already looking at each other and/or getting started. Also, >it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I cannot get a >sense of who said what in the group or even what question we're on. I'll >explain what we do. The professor gives us like four or five questions. She >says get in groups of about five people. One student is the scribe. He/she >is responsible for writing down the answers to questions. He/she also will >place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation >credit. Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the >completed copy to the professor. One student is the spokesperson for each >small group. So when we discuss as a class, there are five or six people >speaking and she goes around the room systematically. Sometimes she asks >for volunteers as well; so then a group member calls out and shares their >stuff. For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an >assignment where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating >sociological concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not >watch much tv; and certainly not reality tv shows! As to the other >suggestions, I did those. Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said >before, they are already paired in groups for the project. Brandon, asking >students around you does not always work if they already know who they want >to work with. They might even recognize people from another class, in this >case sociology 201. I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it >changes from time to time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear >them often! I don't have the benefit of recognizing people by face. As for >educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it! People >don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing education >while I look for work. These additional courses such as business writing, >intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as a way to >demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer from writing >samples and professor recommendations. I know it’s a commuter community >college; no sense of community. I tried and tried to form study groups to >no avail;; only in one class did I get a study partner and that was cause I >asked him. we chatted before class and he seemed mature and friendly. >Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador for the >legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life, I'd work for >a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that nature. I will >answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they ask. But I >want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides visual >impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me >than the characteristic of partial vision. So, I do not buy this line that >if we go out and educate people that they will accept us. If people get to >know me, they will accept me for who I am including my personality, values, >and me being legally blind. I don't make a big deal about being almost >blind. Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little >time to interact outside class unless you are in a club. Thanks for the >thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next class. >Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Wednesday, >January 30, 2013 1:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues Hi Ashley I couldn't agree >with you more on group projects and the issues people have with them. There >are many blindness-type related issues. Like you, when it comes to being an >individual and participating in class, I do participate and get >complemented, but their are many blind issues with group projects that I >can think of. The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture >rooms are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first >problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally >happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your >friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them to see >if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If it is a class >where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is right, just find >people nearer to you and try ask if you can join. The next problem you then >have is if you actually do do that, because most of the time, even though >they know you might be smart in the real class, somehow many people when >having to try actually talk to and interact with a blind person somehow has >a problem. When your group members are discussing what tasks everyone >should be doing you have to ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" >or say "I can do x or y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just >ignore you. It is interesting to see that your group members interact >virtually. Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to >discuss. You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, >but to be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university >I wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things >will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing nothing >etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a job and have >to work together as a group you probably won't have to worry too much >because you'd be working with people you would work with everyday, and they >would over time become used to seeing you as being a capable person, >therefore if you have group projects in the work place they'd help you >more. With university you probably just meet people and work with them >once-off, so don't be too worried. Lecturers probably can also see who >worked in the group and who didn't, but I also don't think they take group >assignments as seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers >are not blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm >not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the group >have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing work etc. For >group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself, just >relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world the >university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone else will >probably not be bothering you much. Ari >_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 20:03:35 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:03:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> Kaiti, thanks. I will chat with her again and we will see. I agree its easier to hand me the quiz electronically rather than me going way to the testing center and having her send it there and pick it up there. Hopefully, she will change her mind and I won't be inconvenienced andshe will see its not a big deal. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests Hi, Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't want to get too into it without knowing all the details. Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and quizzes in word anyway. I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue like this with her again. HTH On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > > Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way > to > > a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz > there. > I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about > taking > > class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; > I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash drive, > I > > could read it. > Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." > Gee! > > If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the > darn testhing center. > > I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about > questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. > I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so I > know how they are worded. > > Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the > quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I might > need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I > could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I read > my > > memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can > make > > other arrangements. Yay. > It says > Systems include: > Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral > administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. > > The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread it > and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only accomodations > I > > can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, I > think this sheet is on my side. > > My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; I > had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the > counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume > you're > > going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take > these > > short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take > longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than > simply > > taking the short quiz in the building. > > So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the > professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to > sit > > down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. > That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. > IMO, > > it makes it > easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for > quizzes > > then which can be a hastle. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests > > Hi, > > Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for > something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except > for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a > different matter entirely. > Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at > my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe > or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I > agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. > > My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone > else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to > put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular > time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save > you time after class. > > On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >> disabled >> students. >> >> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students >> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader >> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it >> was an essay exam. >> >> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there >> >> in >> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I >> opt >> to read it on the pc. >> >> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams >> in >> >> a >> separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? >> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else >> out; >> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >> >> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >> office. >> >> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >> testing >> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right >> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring >> >> a >> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >> the >> disability counseling center about this. >> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; >> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get >> the >> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that >> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than >> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >> >> >> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format >> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me >> to >> take it on a electronic device. >> >> >> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the >> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 20:33:35 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 14:33:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? Message-ID: Hello guys, It's been a while since the last time I wrote on this list. I'm taking the last semester of the master's, and I have found it extremely difficult to make decisions about my graduate project. I have reviewed a good amount of literature but I'm still confused. Also, my current advisor (I have had two) is putting pressure because she's not going to be here during the summer, but I'm aware that I will not be ready by the end of spring term. I would really like to have suggestions from those of you who have already graduated. I'd particularly like to know which strategies you guys use, in order to make the right decisions about your grad projects. I had already chosen a topic but I'm not having fun with that, and my professors haven't previously working on disability issues so they cannot offer the best guidance. Thank you in advance for your suggestions. -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From dsykora29 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 20:48:29 2013 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:48:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> <7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I think the it is very important to be able to read braille. It would never be acceptable to have the majority of sighted people be illerate; therefore, it should be the same for blind people. Diagrams in a textbook are very important (especially for math and science) so I do think it is beneficial to have descriptions in an audio book. I also can read raised print although my writing ability is not as good. I find this useful for reading raised or engraved print signs. Also, I find this useful for interpreting documents whcih I have scanned. In certain fonts, some letter can look similar and be confused by the scanner. Danielle On 2/3/13, Kirt wrote: > Chris, > The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading > tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill. > You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps. > Jedi, > I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised > print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just > as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical > suggestions for me other than simple practice? > Best, > Kirt > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Good morning, Chris, and ALL, >> >> An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having >> this puzzle as a kid, made of wood, with letters. I would put the >> puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an >> understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at >> least legibly. >> Car: >>> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about >>> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I >>> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the >>> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but >>> maybe it does. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Sophie, >>> > Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them >>> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy >>> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. >>> > >>> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >>> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >>> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >>> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >>> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >>> >> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >>> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >>> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >>> >> understanding of the code endures. >>> >> Car Damoulakis wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly >>> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >>> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >>> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >>> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >>> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even >>> >>> now >>> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >>> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >>> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >>> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >>> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >>> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >>> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >>> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >>> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >>> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the >>> >>> rest, >>> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do >>> >>> forget. >>> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >>> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >>> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >>> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >>> >>> of abstract sounds? >>> >>> Ari >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >>> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >>> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >>> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >>> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >>> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >>> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >>> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >>> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >>> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >>> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi everyone >>> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >>> >>>> sad. I >>> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >>> >>>> a >>> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>> >>>> audio, >>> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >>> >>>> not >>> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >>> >>>> paper. I >>> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>> >>>> read >>> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >>> >>>> language or >>> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >>> >>>> etc, but >>> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >>> >>>> lovely >>> >>>> thing! >>> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >>> >>>> you >>> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >>> >>>> looking >>> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>> >>>> help >>> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>> >>>> have >>> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>> >>>> couldn't >>> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>> >>>> that >>> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >>> >>>> braille. >>> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>> >>>> books >>> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >>> >>>> to >>> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >>> >>>> these >>> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >>> >>>> the >>> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >>> >>>> don't >>> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >>> >>>> even if >>> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >>> >>>> 6 >>> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>> >>>> prices >>> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>> >>>> electronic >>> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >>> >>>> tragic >>> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >>> >>>> aren't >>> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >>> >>>> if >>> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>> >>>> have >>> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >>> >>>> want in >>> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >>> >>>> prices >>> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>> >>>> read >>> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>> >>>> Ari >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> >>>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 20:53:00 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:53:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29B457054C8541789E216A0D85DD43B5@OwnerPC> well what are you studying and what is the requirement of the project? -----Original Message----- From: Adriana Pulido Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 3:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? Hello guys, It's been a while since the last time I wrote on this list. I'm taking the last semester of the master's, and I have found it extremely difficult to make decisions about my graduate project. I have reviewed a good amount of literature but I'm still confused. Also, my current advisor (I have had two) is putting pressure because she's not going to be here during the summer, but I'm aware that I will not be ready by the end of spring term. I would really like to have suggestions from those of you who have already graduated. I'd particularly like to know which strategies you guys use, in order to make the right decisions about your grad projects. I had already chosen a topic but I'm not having fun with that, and my professors haven't previously working on disability issues so they cannot offer the best guidance. Thank you in advance for your suggestions. -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 21:21:11 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:21:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? In-Reply-To: <29B457054C8541789E216A0D85DD43B5@OwnerPC> References: <29B457054C8541789E216A0D85DD43B5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I study journalism, but my undergrad was in another discipline. As to the requirements, grad projects, as opposed to theses, gives you more freedom as a student. I think part of the problem is that I'm used to have professors telling me what to do, and of course, this is not the case. 2013/2/3, Ashley Bramlett : > well what are you studying and what is the requirement of the project? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Adriana Pulido > Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 3:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? > > Hello guys, > It's been a while since the last time I wrote on this list. I'm taking > the last semester of the master's, and I have found it extremely > difficult to make decisions about my graduate project. I have reviewed > a good amount of literature but I'm still confused. Also, my current > advisor (I have had two) is putting pressure because she's not going > to be here during the summer, but I'm aware that I will not be ready > by the end of spring term. > I would really like to have suggestions from those of you who have > already graduated. I'd particularly like to know which strategies you > guys use, in order to make the right decisions about your grad > projects. I had already chosen a topic but I'm not having fun with > that, and my professors haven't previously working on disability > issues so they cannot offer the best guidance. > > Thank you in advance for your suggestions. > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Feb 3 21:50:00 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:50:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130202155725.01ce5ec0@comcast.net> <8785826376069576155@unknownmsgid> <7.0.1.0.2.20130203042820.01c76238@comcast.net> <825AB3CC-64AD-43FE-A7C3-38AB65CCFA1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Nope. Sent from my iPhone On 03/02/2013, at 10:17 AM, Kirt wrote: > Chris, > The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill. You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps. > Jedi, > I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical suggestions for me other than simple practice? > Best, > Kirt > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Good morning, Chris, and ALL, >> >> An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having this puzzle as a kid, made of wood, with letters. I would put the puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at least legibly. >> Car: >>> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about >>> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I >>> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the >>> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but >>> maybe it does. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere. Reading them >>>> is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy >>>> sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin. >>>> >>>> On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling >>>>> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought >>>>> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was >>>>> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that >>>>> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire >>>>> know- how of phonics, writing and spelling on sound, alone? >>>>> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille >>>>> reading, although I resist such a classification since my >>>>> understanding of the code endures. >>>>> Car Damoulakis wrote: >>>>>> Hi Sophie and Carly >>>>>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for >>>>>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use >>>>>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio >>>>>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that, >>>>>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now >>>>>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what >>>>>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't >>>>>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an >>>>>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just >>>>>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they >>>>>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other >>>>>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use >>>>>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and >>>>>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for >>>>>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest, >>>>>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget. >>>>>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in >>>>>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the >>>>>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres >>>>>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort >>>>>> of abstract sounds? >>>>>> Ari >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) >>>>>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my >>>>>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll >>>>>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille >>>>>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because >>>>>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't >>>>>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup, >>>>>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning >>>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long >>>>>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print >>>>>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and >>>>>>> sad. I >>>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>>> audio, >>>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but >>>>>>> paper. I >>>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a >>>>>>> language or >>>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws >>>>>>> etc, but >>>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a >>>>>>> lovely >>>>>>> thing! >>>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was >>>>>>> looking >>>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>>> couldn't >>>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in >>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>>>>>> books >>>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here >>>>>>> even if >>>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about >>>>>>> 6 >>>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>>>>>> prices >>>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>>>>>> electronic >>>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and >>>>>>> tragic >>>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just >>>>>>> aren't >>>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really >>>>>>> want in >>>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the >>>>>>> prices >>>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>>> Ari >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 22:03:08 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 17:03:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: <203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> <203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I have a late response that I would like to add, but it's not an affirmation, so please forgive me for that. In my time in college as a blind student, the only quizzes I have taken in class were of two categories: 1) pop quizzes that were given orally or 2) foreign language quizzes that had an oral component. In the first example, I would open word while everyone else took out paper and pencil, and I would type as they wrote. I would then turn in my saved document on a flash drive designated for that class, and the professor would return it after grading. In the second instance, the quiz/test was given to me as a word document as everyone got settled so I would have it open and ready when she began. I would then complete the oral section at the same time as everyone else (either at the beginning, or at a teacher-designated time in the quiz/test). Then I would complete the rest of the quiz/test and save the document on the flash drive designated for that class. The professor would take up the flash drive when she takes up everyone's quiz/test, then return the flash drive after grading. I think it is within a professor's right to require a student to take a quiz at the DSS office if it's not a pop quiz or has an oral component. For example, last semester's biology class (and this semester's biology class) require a 10-minute lab quiz every week. Lab is on Tuesday, so I take this lab quiz on Monday afternoons. I get double time, so twenty minutes. I don't normally need the full double time, but last week's quiz, there was an issue with calculators not working and I had to use a calculator I wasn't familiar with, so it took me longer to answer those questions I needed the calculator for. Issues like this can only be dealt with at the disability support services office. If I had been taking the quiz in the class and my talking calculator stopped working like that, the teacher could provide only a regular non-talking calculator, so I would be stuck without access to a calculator that was an easy solution at the DSS office. I don't feel that taking the lab quiz at DSS is too much trouble for me or for my professor. My professor e-mails the quiz to DSS to be checked for accessibility, and I get her to fill out a quiz form during her office hours. I take the quiz after school on Monday and plug my phone into earbuds and listen to music or play on an app while everyone else is taking the lab quiz in-class. It's not a big issue, and it worked last semester and is working just fine this semester. If your professor insists that you take the short quiz at the disability support services office, maybe this is something you should accept as part of requiring specialized equipment. Sure, it's nice to take the test in class with everyone else, but what happens when your technology stops working in the middle of the test? DSS isn't there to see you complete the test on another computer, get another talking calculator, or have a reader/scribe assist you. And in the class, you can forget about extra time. That's not fair to the other students if the professor has something planned for after the quiz. Why should they have to wait extra time because of your disability? Is that accommodating or reverse-discrimination? My two cents, Jewel On 2/3/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > thanks. I will chat with her again and we will see. > I agree its easier to hand me the quiz electronically rather than me going > way to the testing center and having her send it there and pick it up > there. > > Hopefully, she will change her mind and I won't be inconvenienced andshe > will see its not a big deal. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests > > Hi, > > Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor > first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't > want to get too into it without knowing all the details. > > Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't > really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a > microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than > sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or > whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and > quizzes in word anyway. > > I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the > quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's > really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue > like this with her again. > > HTH > > On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way >> to >> >> a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz >> there. >> I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about >> taking >> >> class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; >> I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash drive, >> >> I >> >> could read it. >> Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." >> Gee! >> >> If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the >> darn testhing center. >> >> I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about >> questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. >> I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so I >> know how they are worded. >> >> Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the >> quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I might >> need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I >> could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I read >> >> my >> >> memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can >> make >> >> other arrangements. Yay. >> It says >> Systems include: >> Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral >> administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. >> >> The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread it >> and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only accomodations >> >> I >> >> can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, I >> think this sheet is on my side. >> >> My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; I >> had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the >> counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume >> you're >> >> going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take >> these >> >> short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take >> longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than >> simply >> >> taking the short quiz in the building. >> >> So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the >> professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to >> sit >> >> down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. >> That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. >> IMO, >> >> it makes it >> easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for >> quizzes >> >> then which can be a hastle. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >> >> Hi, >> >> Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for >> something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except >> for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a >> different matter entirely. >> Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at >> my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe >> or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I >> agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. >> >> My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone >> else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to >> put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular >> time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save >> you time after class. >> >> On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >>> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >>> disabled >>> students. >>> >>> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where >>> students >>> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >>> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader >>> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if >>> it >>> was an essay exam. >>> >>> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it >>> there >>> >>> in >>> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >>> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I >>> opt >>> to read it on the pc. >>> >>> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams >>> in >>> >>> a >>> separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? >>> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else >>> out; >>> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >>> >>> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >>> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >>> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >>> office. >>> >>> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >>> testing >>> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right >>> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or >>> bring >>> >>> a >>> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >>> the >>> disability counseling center about this. >>> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; >>> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get >>> the >>> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note >>> that >>> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >>> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than >>> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >>> >>> >>> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format >>> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me >>> to >>> take it on a electronic device. >>> >>> >>> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >>> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking >>> the >>> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 22:09:14 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 17:09:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <594B1FF5-EC17-48F3-AA0C-49B23E4D9DEC@gmail.com> Hi Adriana, Congratulations on almost being done with your masters degree. Choosing and completing a good masters project can be quite a challenge. Remind us what your field of study is and tell us the topic you have already chosen but that you are not satisfied with. Every school has different requirements for a masters project and so knowing that would also be helpful for giving specific advice. I can give some general pointers about choosing a topic for a masters project though (I have completed 2 now). Keep in mind that in most fields, a masters project is not going to be ground breaking work. I don't say that to discourage you, but to help you keep the appropriate scope for the project. Many students bite off something too big to cover in a small masters project and get frustrated and end up doing way more work than is necessary. On the other hand, most schools want masters projects to be something that could be published in a professional journal when shortened to an appropriate length. So it needs to be good, extend the literature in some way, but be limited enough in its scope so that you can accomplish it in a reasonable amount of time. Often, a masters level project is more about the process than the topic, so agonizing over finding the right topic can be a waste of time. The university wants to see that you can conduct masters level research in your chosen field and can demonstrate scholarship through your analysis, experiment, etc. They want to see that you can choose a relevant topic, analyze it, propose a solution, or whatever the parameters of your project are. Masters level students will often pick a topic that one of their advisors are an expert in, just to make the project easier, even if it is not their favorite topic. I would recommend doing whatever you can to get the project done quickly. You want to do a good job, and it is nice to pick a fun and interesting topic, but getting it done is most important. :) For my masters thesis, I knew I wanted to do something related to braille reading but struggled to pick a topic. There was a doctoral student in my program who had chosen repeated reading with large print users as her topic, replicating a previous study. So, I chose to use repeated reading with braille readers as my study topic so we could design and implement our research study together. This made it easier on both of us, both logistically and because we had another expert in the office we could bounce ideas off of. If your current advisors are not experts in your field of study, I recommend contacting an expert in your field who would be willing to give you guidance at several points during your project, especially during the topic selection process. This person could then be one of your readers once the project is complete. I hope some of this is helpful. Feel free to contact me on or off list. I know this can be a very frustrating process and you want to get it right because you are going to spend the next several months married to this project. Best of luck, Greg On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: > Hello guys, > It's been a while since the last time I wrote on this list. I'm taking > the last semester of the master's, and I have found it extremely > difficult to make decisions about my graduate project. I have reviewed > a good amount of literature but I'm still confused. Also, my current > advisor (I have had two) is putting pressure because she's not going > to be here during the summer, but I'm aware that I will not be ready > by the end of spring term. > I would really like to have suggestions from those of you who have > already graduated. I'd particularly like to know which strategies you > guys use, in order to make the right decisions about your grad > projects. I had already chosen a topic but I'm not having fun with > that, and my professors haven't previously working on disability > issues so they cannot offer the best guidance. > > Thank you in advance for your suggestions. > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 22:43:20 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:43:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate project? In-Reply-To: <594B1FF5-EC17-48F3-AA0C-49B23E4D9DEC@gmail.com> References: <594B1FF5-EC17-48F3-AA0C-49B23E4D9DEC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Grek. You came up with useful suggestions! I will contact you offlist. 2013/2/3, Greg Aikens : > Hi Adriana, > Congratulations on almost being done with your masters degree. Choosing and > completing a good masters project can be quite a challenge. Remind us what > your field of study is and tell us the topic you have already chosen but > that you are not satisfied with. Every school has different requirements > for a masters project and so knowing that would also be helpful for giving > specific advice. > > I can give some general pointers about choosing a topic for a masters > project though (I have completed 2 now). Keep in mind that in most fields, > a masters project is not going to be ground breaking work. I don't say that > to discourage you, but to help you keep the appropriate scope for the > project. Many students bite off something too big to cover in a small > masters project and get frustrated and end up doing way more work than is > necessary. On the other hand, most schools want masters projects to be > something that could be published in a professional journal when shortened > to an appropriate length. So it needs to be good, extend the literature in > some way, but be limited enough in its scope so that you can accomplish it > in a reasonable amount of time. > > Often, a masters level project is more about the process than the topic, so > agonizing over finding the right topic can be a waste of time. The > university wants to see that you can conduct masters level research in your > chosen field and can demonstrate scholarship through your analysis, > experiment, etc. They want to see that you can choose a relevant topic, > analyze it, propose a solution, or whatever the parameters of your project > are. Masters level students will often pick a topic that one of their > advisors are an expert in, just to make the project easier, even if it is > not their favorite topic. > > I would recommend doing whatever you can to get the project done quickly. > You want to do a good job, and it is nice to pick a fun and interesting > topic, but getting it done is most important. :) > > For my masters thesis, I knew I wanted to do something related to braille > reading but struggled to pick a topic. There was a doctoral student in my > program who had chosen repeated reading with large print users as her topic, > replicating a previous study. So, I chose to use repeated reading with > braille readers as my study topic so we could design and implement our > research study together. This made it easier on both of us, both > logistically and because we had another expert in the office we could bounce > ideas off of. > > If your current advisors are not experts in your field of study, I recommend > contacting an expert in your field who would be willing to give you guidance > at several points during your project, especially during the topic selection > process. This person could then be one of your readers once the project is > complete. > > I hope some of this is helpful. > > Feel free to contact me on or off list. I know this can be a very > frustrating process and you want to get it right because you are going to > spend the next several months married to this project. > > Best of luck, > Greg > > On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: > >> Hello guys, >> It's been a while since the last time I wrote on this list. I'm taking >> the last semester of the master's, and I have found it extremely >> difficult to make decisions about my graduate project. I have reviewed >> a good amount of literature but I'm still confused. Also, my current >> advisor (I have had two) is putting pressure because she's not going >> to be here during the summer, but I'm aware that I will not be ready >> by the end of spring term. >> I would really like to have suggestions from those of you who have >> already graduated. I'd particularly like to know which strategies you >> guys use, in order to make the right decisions about your grad >> projects. I had already chosen a topic but I'm not having fun with >> that, and my professors haven't previously working on disability >> issues so they cannot offer the best guidance. >> >> Thank you in advance for your suggestions. >> >> -- >> Adriana Pulido >> Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad >> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From dsykora29 at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 02:27:59 2013 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 21:27:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> <203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, I really don't understand why a professor would require you to take a test/quiz in the dss office rather than in class. Giving it to you as an option yes, but a requirement? You should at least have the option of completing the test/quiz in class at the same time as everyone else. Just my thoughts, Danielle On 2/3/13, Jewel wrote: > I have a late response that I would like to add, but it's not an > affirmation, so please forgive me for that. > > In my time in college as a blind student, the only quizzes I have > taken in class were of two categories: 1) pop quizzes that were given > orally or 2) foreign language quizzes that had an oral component. > > In the first example, I would open word while everyone else took out > paper and pencil, and I would type as they wrote. I would then turn in > my saved document on a flash drive designated for that class, and the > professor would return it after grading. In the second instance, the > quiz/test was given to me as a word document as everyone got settled > so I would have it open and ready when she began. I would then > complete the oral section at the same time as everyone else (either at > the beginning, or at a teacher-designated time in the quiz/test). Then > I would complete the rest of the quiz/test and save the document on > the flash drive designated for that class. The professor would take up > the flash drive when she takes up everyone's quiz/test, then return > the flash drive after grading. > > I think it is within a professor's right to require a student to take > a quiz at the DSS office if it's not a pop quiz or has an oral > component. For example, last semester's biology class (and this > semester's biology class) require a 10-minute lab quiz every week. Lab > is on Tuesday, so I take this lab quiz on Monday afternoons. I get > double time, so twenty minutes. I don't normally need the full double > time, but last week's quiz, there was an issue with calculators not > working and I had to use a calculator I wasn't familiar with, so it > took me longer to answer those questions I needed the calculator for. > Issues like this can only be dealt with at the disability support > services office. If I had been taking the quiz in the class and my > talking calculator stopped working like that, the teacher could > provide only a regular non-talking calculator, so I would be stuck > without access to a calculator that was an easy solution at the DSS > office. > > I don't feel that taking the lab quiz at DSS is too much trouble for > me or for my professor. My professor e-mails the quiz to DSS to be > checked for accessibility, and I get her to fill out a quiz form > during her office hours. I take the quiz after school on Monday and > plug my phone into earbuds and listen to music or play on an app while > everyone else is taking the lab quiz in-class. It's not a big issue, > and it worked last semester and is working just fine this semester. > > If your professor insists that you take the short quiz at the > disability support services office, maybe this is something you should > accept as part of requiring specialized equipment. Sure, it's nice to > take the test in class with everyone else, but what happens when your > technology stops working in the middle of the test? DSS isn't there to > see you complete the test on another computer, get another talking > calculator, or have a reader/scribe assist you. And in the class, you > can forget about extra time. That's not fair to the other students if > the professor has something planned for after the quiz. Why should > they have to wait extra time because of your disability? Is that > accommodating or reverse-discrimination? > > My two cents, > Jewel > > > On 2/3/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kaiti, >> thanks. I will chat with her again and we will see. >> I agree its easier to hand me the quiz electronically rather than me >> going >> way to the testing center and having her send it there and pick it up >> there. >> >> Hopefully, she will change her mind and I won't be inconvenienced andshe >> will see its not a big deal. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kaiti Shelton >> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >> >> Hi, >> >> Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor >> first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't >> want to get too into it without knowing all the details. >> >> Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't >> really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a >> microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than >> sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or >> whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and >> quizzes in word anyway. >> >> I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the >> quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's >> really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue >> like this with her again. >> >> HTH >> >> On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way >>> to >>> >>> a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz >>> there. >>> I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about >>> taking >>> >>> class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; >>> I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash >>> drive, >>> >>> I >>> >>> could read it. >>> Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." >>> Gee! >>> >>> If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the >>> darn testhing center. >>> >>> I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about >>> questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. >>> I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so >>> I >>> know how they are worded. >>> >>> Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the >>> quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I >>> might >>> need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I >>> could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I >>> read >>> >>> my >>> >>> memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can >>> make >>> >>> other arrangements. Yay. >>> It says >>> Systems include: >>> Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral >>> administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. >>> >>> The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread >>> it >>> and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only >>> accomodations >>> >>> I >>> >>> can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, >>> I >>> think this sheet is on my side. >>> >>> My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; >>> I >>> had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the >>> counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume >>> you're >>> >>> going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take >>> these >>> >>> short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take >>> longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than >>> simply >>> >>> taking the short quiz in the building. >>> >>> So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the >>> professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to >>> sit >>> >>> down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. >>> That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. >>> IMO, >>> >>> it makes it >>> easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for >>> quizzes >>> >>> then which can be a hastle. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for >>> something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except >>> for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a >>> different matter entirely. >>> Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at >>> my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe >>> or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I >>> agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. >>> >>> My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone >>> else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to >>> put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular >>> time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save >>> you time after class. >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >>>> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >>>> disabled >>>> students. >>>> >>>> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where >>>> students >>>> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >>>> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a >>>> reader >>>> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if >>>> it >>>> was an essay exam. >>>> >>>> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it >>>> there >>>> >>>> in >>>> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >>>> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I >>>> opt >>>> to read it on the pc. >>>> >>>> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams >>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>> separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? >>>> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else >>>> out; >>>> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >>>> >>>> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >>>> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >>>> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >>>> office. >>>> >>>> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >>>> testing >>>> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz >>>> right >>>> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or >>>> bring >>>> >>>> a >>>> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >>>> the >>>> disability counseling center about this. >>>> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing >>>> center; >>>> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I >>>> get >>>> the >>>> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note >>>> that >>>> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >>>> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather >>>> than >>>> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >>>> >>>> >>>> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word >>>> format >>>> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me >>>> to >>>> take it on a electronic device. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >>>> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking >>>> the >>>> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 4 12:37:28 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 04:37:28 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: <8CFE71C48B944FB6B02660814B8AA9F4@OwnerPC> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> <8CFE71C48B944FB6B02660814B8AA9F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130204043004.01bebb70@comcast.net> Good morning, Good morning, Ashley, Getting into groups most definitely is easier said than done and, usually instructor needs to intervene for us and i am definitely not trying to suggest it being somehow easier in my case. It still sucks when everyone else scatters, gravitating toward each other's gazes is it, right over your head? So please don't think I have any answers or that I'm trying to say I have it better. Have a good day, Ash! for today, Car :01 PM 2/3/2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Carely, Gee, I guess personality comes across >different in email. I really don't see me as you >said. Further, you did not give specifics as to >what educate means so its not exactly helpful. >As I said before, I asked around and everyone I >asked was in a group. People did not come to me >Carley, that is the problem. In class it happens >so fast; if you look around before you know it >people are already grouped and you are looking >for one while they are chattering about the >assignment. In other classes, I found simply >talking to neighbors worked as some of you >mentioned. They don't group themselves as this >class does, but simply work with those around >them. Keep in mind that you have classes with >people and rarely see them again. So its not >like they can see you in class A and remember >that you were a cheerful contributing person, >and then see you in class B and ask you be a >member. Now, educating is a great thing. But >what I'm asking about is how you can socialize >better and form groups without being the odd one >out. Finally, if I am being a good student as I >am by listening and contributing to class by >either questions or answering professor directed >questions, I am being part of the class and >including myself. I hope I am so called >educating by being in class and saying things to >contribute. But you can only do so much. Ashley >-----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:42 AM To: >National Association of Blind Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues >Good morning, Ashley, Best way I found to >"educate" is to demonstrate just what we are >capable of, through sheer doing, and attitude. >Sounds to me like you got a bit of a chip on >your shoulder and, I imagine that's why building >bridges linking you, and your peers doesn't seem >to come naturally. What do you think? A >suggestion would be to just act naturally, >letting them come to you, asking to be grouped >with you. It is true it doesn't happen >immediately, like everything, it does take some >doing. Don't be afraid of that doing. Car, you >wrote: >Ari, Thanks; great points. at work we >will know each other and be a >cohesive team, >not strangers put together for a 16 week term to >learn a >subject. I talk to students around me; >sometimes it helps, but sometimes it >doesn't >help me get included in a group discussion. I >will have to ask the >professor to assist me in >finding a group to work with. Additionally, >she >has group discussions most class periods >and then asks each group leader to >speak to the >class as to what they answered. Often I enjoy >group >discussions; but this time it’s a bit >frustrstrating. Why? Because, I have >to find a >group and ask neighbors. I am put in the >position to ask, Amy, >Susie, can I join your >group? This means I have to usually interrupt >them >since they're already looking at each >other and/or getting started. Also, >it’s a >crowded room om and I find the noise level too >much. I cannot get a >sense of who said what in >the group or even what question we're on. >I'll >explain what we do. The professor gives us >like four or five questions. She >says get in >groups of about five people. One student is the >scribe. He/she >is responsible for writing down >the answers to questions. He/she also >will >place everyone's name on the paper so we >all get class participation >credit. Finally, >after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in >the >completed copy to the professor. One >student is the spokesperson for each >small >group. So when we discuss as a class, there are >five or six people >speaking and she goes around >the room systematically. Sometimes she asks >for >volunteers as well; so then a group member calls >out and shares their >stuff. For the group >project, I am not looking forward to it. It is >an >assignment where we have to make a skit for >a mock tv program illustrating >sociological >concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even >begin. I do not >watch much tv; and certainly >not reality tv shows! As to the >other >suggestions, I did those. Kaiti, I do ask >students around me, but as I said >before, they >are already paired in groups for the project. >Brandon, asking >students around you does not >always work if they already know who they >want >to work with. They might even recognize >people from another class, in this >case >sociology 201. I don't know who is sitting by me >all the time; it >changes from time to time. I >cannot link voices to names as I do not >hear >them often! I don't have the benefit of >recognizing people by face. As for >educating >and interacting with people outside class, um >forget it! People >don't interact much outside >classes. I'm there as continuing >education >while I look for work. These >additional courses such as business >writing, >intro to business and technical >editing will boost my resume as a way >to >demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows >I'm a good writer from writing >samples and >professor recommendations. I know it’s a >commuter community >college; no no sense of >community. I tried and tried to form study >groups to >no avail;; only in one class did I >get a study partner and that was cause I >asked >him. we chatted before class and he seemed >mature and friendly. >Frankly, I go to school to >study and learn, not to be a ambassador for >the >legally blind community. If I wanted to >educate my whole life, I'd work for >a blindness >agency doing outreach work or something of that >nature. I will >answer questions about blindness >or braille or whatever if they ask. But I >want >to be myself and talk about lots of other things >besides visual >impairment. I have a lot of >other opinions and things to share about >me >than the characteristic of partial vision. >So, I do not buy this line that >if we go out >and educate people that they will accept us. If >people get to >know me, they will accept me for >who I am including my personality, values, >and >me being legally blind. I don't make a big deal >about being almost >blind. Besides students >simply study there and leave for home; very >little >time to interact outside class unless >you are in a club. Thanks for the >thoughts and >I'll work on getting a group to be in next >class. >Ashley -----Original Message----- From: >Ari Damoulakis Sent: Wednesday, >January 30, >2013 1:17 AM To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >group projects issues Hi Ashley I couldn't >agree >with you more on group projects and the >issues people have with them. There >are many >blindness-type related issues. Like you, when it >comes to being an >individual and participating >in class, I do participate and >get >complemented, but their are many blind >issues with group projects that I >can think of. >The first issue is when group projects are >announced. Lecture >rooms are so huge and so >many people are in the classes that the >first >problem is finding the people you know >from that class. What normally >happens with me >is that because obviously you can't look and >find your >friends in class, you generally have >to wait after class to SMS them to see >if they >have a group and whether their group has room >etc. If it is a class >where you don't really >know anyone, I think your idea is right, just >find >people nearer to you and try ask if you >can join. The next problem you then >have is if >you actually do do that, because most of the >time, even though >they know you might be smart >in the real class, somehow many people >when >having to try actually talk to and >interact with a blind person somehow has >a >problem. When your group members are discussing >what tasks everyone >should be doing you have to >ask one of them "what would you like me to >do?" >or say "I can do x or y." If you don't you >stand the risk that they just >ignore you. It is >interesting to see that your group members >interact >virtually. Mostly whenever I've done >these things we meet somewhere to >discuss. You >are right that most times people don't do things >and so on, >but to be really honest with you >when it comes to group work at university >I >wouldn't really be too worried because this is >probably not how things >will work in later >life. I'm not talking about the people doing >nothing >etc, I'm rather talking about when you >get a job. If you get a job and have >to work >together as a group you probably won't have to >worry too much >because you'd be working with >people you would work with everyday, and >they >would over time become used to seeing you >as being a capable person, >therefore if you >have group projects in the work place they'd >help you >more. With university you probably >just meet people and work with them >once-off, >so don't be too worried. Lecturers probably can >also see who >worked in the group and who >didn't, but I also don't think they take >group >assignments as seriously as individual >ones, because intelligent lecturers >are not >blind to the problems that university group >assignments entail, I'm >not talking about >specifically blind here, but sighted people in >the group >have many of these problems as well, >such as others not doing work etc. For >group >the advice I can try give you is don't >overstress yourself, just >relax and do the best >you can, because luckily in the real world >the >university form of a group assignment where >noone knows anyone else will >probably not be >bothering you much. >Ari >____________________________________________ >___ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >________ >_______________________________________ nabs-l >mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 02:27:03 2013 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 18:27:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: How has NVDA helped you? Tell the world in our video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01ce0348$4a0281d0$de078570$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org [mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA announcement list Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 5:50 PM To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org Subject: NVDA screen reader News: How has NVDA helped you? Tell the world in our video Hello to all NVDA users, We are making a video to help promote the work we do, and we would love NVDA users all over the world to take part. If you, or someone you know, has had their life greatly enhanced by NVDA, we would love to hear from you. Here's what you need to do: (1) Organise for someone to film you on their digital camera, camcorder, smart phone, tablet, or PC. (2) Ask the camera operator to place the camera on a steady surface so it doesn't wobble around too much, if possible. (3) If filming on a smart phone or tablet, please place the screen horizontally while filming as this will work better with the final product than a vertical shot. (4) Record your testimonial - start by stating your name and country, then please explain how NVDA has impacted on your life. Please be succinct. You may speak in English or in your native language. If you speak in your native language, it is a bonus if you can provide us with a written translation into English that we can use for subtitles. (5) The bigger the file size, the better the quality, so if you can file share your videos on a website like Dropbox.com and send us the link that would be great. For smaller files under 25MB you may be able to email them to us. Please email to an account we have set up especially for this purpose: nvda.video at gmail.com (5) we will endeavour to include as many of the testimonials as possible within reason. Thank you so much for your support. Please stay tuned for news about our soon-to-be-created Youtube channel. Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate -- This is the NVDA announcement mailing list. To unsubscribe or edit your options, please visit: http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce From lissa1531 at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 14:07:03 2013 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 07:07:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems! References: <000f01cdff1f$fa6fc370$ef4f4a50$@net> Message-ID: Hi all. I believe that there should be a choice with learning ally. you shouldn't have to just have the audio book manager. Blessings, Melissa and Pj The very least you can do in your life is figure out what you hope for. And the most you can do is live inside that hope. Not admire it from a distance but live right in it, under its roof. Facebook: Melissa R. Green Twitter: melissa5674 windows messenger: graduate1531 at msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems! Hey folks its Dave from California. I've recently had problems with learning ally as well. Some times it syncs stuff just fine and then some times it won't. I've also gotten the run around with them as well. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:46 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems! Okay! I tried this online thing again, and tried to open book manager. When I did, I had one sample library book, "The Wind and the Willows," or something like that. It would not play my books that I needed for class! I'm tired of this! I also got a daizy player that they loaned to me, but there's a problem with that! It won't work! I have an assignment due on Friday, and a test on Monday! This is pathetic! Let alone the fact that they have that unprofessional holding music! I'm not putting up with the run-around that I'm getting from them, anymore! Good grief! Blessings, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40verizon.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From agrima at nbp.org Tue Feb 5 14:29:44 2013 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 09:29:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An incredible true story from the Underground Railroad - in print/braille! Message-ID: <005501ce03ad$3ea6fe00$bbf4fa00$@org> February 2013 Book Club Selection Henry's Freedom Box: A True Story from the Underground Railroad by Ellen Levine Print/braille children's book, $17.99 In contracted braille with skip lines Ages 5 and up Henry's Freedom Box is a perfect introductory story for young readers interested in the history of slavery, and Henry's transit is one that will strike a haunting chord with readers for years to come. - An Amazon.com reader Henry Brown wasn't sure how old he was. Henry was a slave, and slaves weren't allowed to know their birthdays. Henry dreams about freedom, but that dream seems farther away than ever when he is torn from his family and put to work in a warehouse. Then one day, as he lifts a crate, he knows exactly what he must do: He will mail himself to the North, in a wooden crate large enough to hold him, but small enough not to create suspicion. His journey takes just about one full day, during which he was often sideways or upside down. When he arrives in Philadelphia and emerges from the box in a friend's parlor, Henry finally has a birthday -- his first day of freedom. My boys absolutely love this book. Whenever we read it, they have so many questions and are truly interested in knowing what it must have been like to be a black boy in Henry's time. They also show such empathy for him and express feelings of concern... They usually finish the book with a sense of gratitude and appreciation for the freedom that they have. It is a sad book but sometimes the truth doesn't always feel good. Great book! - An Amazon.com reader Many children in the primary grades may have heard the stories of slave escapes through the Underground Railroad, but this well written book brings to life the time of slavery and the voice of Henry "Box" Brown. This very personal account can be used in classrooms and students could compare Henry's escape to that of Harriet Tubman's. They could also write a journal describing the events during Henry's 27 hour journey to freedom. - An Amazon.com reader Order at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/BC1302-FREEDOM.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 19:43:38 2013 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility Survey Message-ID: <012301ce03d9$1a6f9570$4f4ec050$@gmail.com> Please consider taking the attached survey on accessibility from the University of Nebraska. They are doing important work and you can help! Thanks, Sean -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Cover letter on letterhead (2).doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 87040 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Accessibilty survey individuals with VI.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 40448 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 19:48:16 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 13:48:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters Message-ID: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. Thanks From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 20:15:51 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 15:15:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to write it. Hope this helps. On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a > cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering > what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 00:19:31 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 17:19:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jessica Keating Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:04:31 -0700 Subject: Fwd: FW: New Internship Opportunity To: Arielle Silverman Hi Arielle, I'm on a number of Washington, DC, job and internship networks, and an internship opportunity just came my way; I thought you might have an RA or past RA who worked on your disability simulation research and might be interested. Paid internships in DC can be hard to come by, and this one looks interesting. The internship is in DC with The Arc organization. It says it is for interns who are interested in pursuing a career in disability public policy, and will focus on how federal public policy and regulation impact the daily lives of people with disabilities. The internship will provide a $3,000 stipend. There is more information below. Anyhow, thought I'd pass it along. Hopefully somebody will find it helpful. Jess ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SIWP Date: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM Subject: FW: New Internship Opportunity To: SIWALUMNI at hermes.gwu.edu The Arc is pleased to begin accepting applications for the Paul Marchand Internship in Disability Public Policy. The interns in this program will have the opportunity to learn about how federal public policy and regulation impacts the daily lives of people with disabilities and their ability to be as independent as possible. The attached flyer has more information about the program. **** ** ** Applications for the summer session will be accepted until March 8, 2013. Please feel free to share this opportunity with qualified candidates. To help offset the costs of working in Washington, DC, the internship fund will provide a $3,000 stipend to interns interested in pursuing a career in disability public policy. **** ** ** The fund was created to honor Paul Marchand’s distinguished leadership in the disability community and to encourage a new generation of leaders. Many thanks to United Cerebral Palsy who spearheaded the fundraising efforts and the many CCD organizations, leaders within the The Arc, friends, and colleagues of Paul’s that supported the fund.**** ** ** ** ** ** ** [image: Description: ArcLockup_Color_Pos_185x135_GIF]**** * **Julie Ward*, Director, Health Policy**** * **The Arc ***** 1825 K Street NW, Suite 1200, Washington, D.C. 20006**** Phone: 202.783.2229 | Toll free: 800.433.5255**** Fax: 202.534.3731**** Email: ward at thearc.org**** * **www.thearc.org* **** **** Follow us online at: [image: Description: Description: Description: twitter_icon_96dpi] [image: Description: Description: Description: facebook_icon_96dpi] [image: Description: Description: Description: You Tube.jpg] **** **** *You can help build The Arc by making a secure, online contribution by visiting **www.thearc.org/donate* *. Thank you for supporting the work of The Arc.*** * * *Electronic Privacy Notice*: This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.** ** ** ** ** -- Jessica L. Keating jess.keating at gmail.com 315.243.5562 (cell) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Paul Marchand Internship Final.docx Type: application/octet-stream Size: 138744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 00:20:39 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 17:20:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Policy Summer Internship Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SIWP Date: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM Subject: FW: New Internship Opportunity To: SIWALUMNI at hermes.gwu.edu The Arc is pleased to begin accepting applications for the Paul Marchand Internship in Disability Public Policy. The interns in this program will have the opportunity to learn about how federal public policy and regulation impacts the daily lives of people with disabilities and their ability to be as independent as possible. The attached flyer has more information about the program. **** ** ** Applications for the summer session will be accepted until March 8, 2013. Please feel free to share this opportunity with qualified candidates. To help offset the costs of working in Washington, DC, the internship fund will provide a $3,000 stipend to interns interested in pursuing a career in disability public policy. **** ** ** The fund was created to honor Paul Marchand’s distinguished leadership in the disability community and to encourage a new generation of leaders. Many thanks to United Cerebral Palsy who spearheaded the fundraising efforts and the many CCD organizations, leaders within the The Arc, friends, and colleagues of Paul’s that supported the fund.**** ** ** ** ** ** ** [image: Description: ArcLockup_Color_Pos_185x135_GIF]**** * **Julie Ward*, Director, Health Policy**** * **The Arc ***** 1825 K Street NW, Suite 1200, Washington, D.C. 20006**** Phone: 202.783.2229 | Toll free: 800.433.5255**** Fax: 202.534.3731**** Email: ward at thearc.org**** * **www.thearc.org* **** **** Follow us online at: [image: Description: Description: Description: twitter_icon_96dpi] [image: Description: Description: Description: facebook_icon_96dpi] [image: Description: Description: Description: You Tube.jpg] **** **** *You can help build The Arc by making a secure, online contribution by visiting **www.thearc.org/donate* *. Thank you for supporting the work of The Arc.*** * * *Electronic Privacy Notice*: This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.** ** ** ** ** -- Jessica L. Keating jess.keating at gmail.com 315.243.5562 (cell) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Paul Marchand Internship Final.docx Type: application/octet-stream Size: 138744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 00:27:39 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 17:27:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Yes, and the best way to learn is to look up some example letters. There are lots online. Arielle On 2/5/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written > have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the > salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the > job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, > (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a > resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to > thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider > your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to > write it. Hope this helps. > > On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a >> cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering >> what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 00:52:18 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 17:52:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know why this message came through with no subject line and with the header still intact. Anyway, it's info about a paid summer internship in disability policy. Sorry about that! Arielle On 2/5/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Jessica Keating > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:04:31 -0700 > Subject: Fwd: FW: New Internship Opportunity > To: Arielle Silverman > > Hi Arielle, > > I'm on a number of Washington, DC, job and internship networks, and an > internship opportunity just came my way; I thought you might have an RA or > past RA who worked on your disability simulation research and might be > interested. Paid internships in DC can be hard to come by, and this one > looks interesting. > > The internship is in DC with The Arc organization. It says it is for > interns who are interested in pursuing a career in disability public > policy, and will focus on how federal public policy and regulation impact > the daily lives of people with disabilities. The internship will provide a > $3,000 stipend. There is more information below. > > Anyhow, thought I'd pass it along. Hopefully somebody will find it helpful. > > > Jess > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: SIWP > Date: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM > Subject: FW: New Internship Opportunity > To: SIWALUMNI at hermes.gwu.edu > > > The Arc is pleased to begin accepting applications for the Paul Marchand > Internship in Disability Public Policy. The interns in this program will > have the opportunity to learn about how federal public policy and > regulation impacts the daily lives of people with disabilities and their > ability to be as independent as possible. The attached flyer has more > information about the program. **** > > ** ** > > Applications for the summer session will be accepted until March 8, 2013. > Please feel free to share this opportunity with qualified candidates. To > help offset the costs of working in Washington, DC, the internship fund > will provide a $3,000 stipend to interns interested in pursuing a career in > disability public policy. **** > > ** ** > > The fund was created to honor Paul Marchand’s distinguished leadership in > the disability community and to encourage a new generation of leaders. > Many thanks to United Cerebral Palsy who spearheaded the fundraising > efforts and the many CCD organizations, leaders within the The Arc, > friends, and colleagues of Paul’s that supported the fund.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > [image: Description: ArcLockup_Color_Pos_185x135_GIF]**** > > * **Julie Ward*, Director, Health Policy**** > > * **The Arc ***** > > 1825 K Street NW, Suite 1200, Washington, D.C. 20006**** > > Phone: 202.783.2229 | Toll free: 800.433.5255**** > > Fax: 202.534.3731**** > > Email: ward at thearc.org**** > > * **www.thearc.org* **** > > **** > > Follow us online at: [image: Description: Description: > Description: twitter_icon_96dpi] [image: > Description: Description: Description: > facebook_icon_96dpi] > [image: Description: Description: Description: You > Tube.jpg] > **** > > **** > > *You can help build The Arc by making a secure, online contribution by > visiting **www.thearc.org/donate* *. Thank > you for supporting the work of The Arc.*** > > * * > > *Electronic Privacy Notice*: This e-mail, and any attachments, contains > information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications > privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you > are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally > prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise > disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the > sender that you have received this communication in error, and then > immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > > -- > > Jessica L. Keating > jess.keating at gmail.com > 315.243.5562 (cell) > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 01:01:18 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:01:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: <4BBF0D7D57644984A22F6F621B88DC2E@Gloria> Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cover letters > Yes, and the best way to learn is to look up some example letters. > There are lots online. > Arielle > > On 2/5/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi, >> >> A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written >> have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the >> salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the >> job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, >> (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a >> resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to >> thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider >> your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to >> write it. Hope this helps. >> >> On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a >>> cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just >>> wondering >>> what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. >>> Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 01:10:00 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 18:10:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> <203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, It'd be worth asking your professor what her specific concerns are about letting you take the quiz in class, and then responding to her concerns with options to mitigate them. Is she concerned about integrity or potential cheating? Then you could offer to take the quiz on your laptop while she is watching your screen in her office. Is she worried about having you take up her office hours? This really shouldn't be an issue since professors should give up their office hours to accommodate student needs, but if it is, you could offer to take the quiz in class with everyone else and then sit in the classroom a few extra minutes if you do happen to take longer, which you may not. It's true that DSS can help if adaptive equipment malfunctions, sometimes, but the issue of not being able to ask the professor questions about the material if you test in the DSS office is not a trivial one. I recall freshman year, taking a biology lab exam in the DSS using JAWS. There was a technical drawing of something very biology-specific (can't remember exactly what anymore) and of course JAWS couldn't read it. Neither could the DSS staff, since they are not biologists. The only one who could verbally describe the drawing was my bio professor and so I had to walk across campus with a proctor trailing behind me to ask the prof what the drawing looked like. To make matters worse, for whatever reason I had opted to take the test early and when I walked into class to ask the professor, the students had not begun the test yet and my question gave away what was on the test. Needless to say it would have been much much easier if I had been in class and could have just gotten up to discreetly whisper my question to the professor. In science and math classes especially, DSS staff are unlikely to know how to provide clarification and this could have a serious effect on your test performance. The only time that taking a science or math test in DSS might be an advantage is if they have the facilities to provide a Braille copy of the test. More generally, I think it is very important for us to distinguish those who read to us or convert our materials from those who tutor or teach us. When I'm taking a test, I'd rather have support from someone who knows the content than from someone who knows about blindness. For most content areas, an electronic version of the test or a reader is a sufficient accommodation, and both are things we can obtain quite easily without DSS intervention. Arielle On 2/3/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi, > I really don't understand why a professor would require you to take a > test/quiz in the dss office rather than in class. Giving it to you as > an option yes, but a requirement? You should at least have the option > of completing the test/quiz in class at the same time as everyone > else. > Just my thoughts, > Danielle > > On 2/3/13, Jewel wrote: >> I have a late response that I would like to add, but it's not an >> affirmation, so please forgive me for that. >> >> In my time in college as a blind student, the only quizzes I have >> taken in class were of two categories: 1) pop quizzes that were given >> orally or 2) foreign language quizzes that had an oral component. >> >> In the first example, I would open word while everyone else took out >> paper and pencil, and I would type as they wrote. I would then turn in >> my saved document on a flash drive designated for that class, and the >> professor would return it after grading. In the second instance, the >> quiz/test was given to me as a word document as everyone got settled >> so I would have it open and ready when she began. I would then >> complete the oral section at the same time as everyone else (either at >> the beginning, or at a teacher-designated time in the quiz/test). Then >> I would complete the rest of the quiz/test and save the document on >> the flash drive designated for that class. The professor would take up >> the flash drive when she takes up everyone's quiz/test, then return >> the flash drive after grading. >> >> I think it is within a professor's right to require a student to take >> a quiz at the DSS office if it's not a pop quiz or has an oral >> component. For example, last semester's biology class (and this >> semester's biology class) require a 10-minute lab quiz every week. Lab >> is on Tuesday, so I take this lab quiz on Monday afternoons. I get >> double time, so twenty minutes. I don't normally need the full double >> time, but last week's quiz, there was an issue with calculators not >> working and I had to use a calculator I wasn't familiar with, so it >> took me longer to answer those questions I needed the calculator for. >> Issues like this can only be dealt with at the disability support >> services office. If I had been taking the quiz in the class and my >> talking calculator stopped working like that, the teacher could >> provide only a regular non-talking calculator, so I would be stuck >> without access to a calculator that was an easy solution at the DSS >> office. >> >> I don't feel that taking the lab quiz at DSS is too much trouble for >> me or for my professor. My professor e-mails the quiz to DSS to be >> checked for accessibility, and I get her to fill out a quiz form >> during her office hours. I take the quiz after school on Monday and >> plug my phone into earbuds and listen to music or play on an app while >> everyone else is taking the lab quiz in-class. It's not a big issue, >> and it worked last semester and is working just fine this semester. >> >> If your professor insists that you take the short quiz at the >> disability support services office, maybe this is something you should >> accept as part of requiring specialized equipment. Sure, it's nice to >> take the test in class with everyone else, but what happens when your >> technology stops working in the middle of the test? DSS isn't there to >> see you complete the test on another computer, get another talking >> calculator, or have a reader/scribe assist you. And in the class, you >> can forget about extra time. That's not fair to the other students if >> the professor has something planned for after the quiz. Why should >> they have to wait extra time because of your disability? Is that >> accommodating or reverse-discrimination? >> >> My two cents, >> Jewel >> >> >> On 2/3/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> thanks. I will chat with her again and we will see. >>> I agree its easier to hand me the quiz electronically rather than me >>> going >>> way to the testing center and having her send it there and pick it up >>> there. >>> >>> Hopefully, she will change her mind and I won't be inconvenienced andshe >>> will see its not a big deal. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor >>> first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't >>> want to get too into it without knowing all the details. >>> >>> Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't >>> really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a >>> microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than >>> sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or >>> whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and >>> quizzes in word anyway. >>> >>> I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the >>> quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's >>> really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue >>> like this with her again. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kaiti, >>>> >>>> Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my >>>> way >>>> to >>>> >>>> a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz >>>> there. >>>> I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about >>>> taking >>>> >>>> class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; >>>> I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash >>>> drive, >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> could read it. >>>> Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." >>>> Gee! >>>> >>>> If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in >>>> the >>>> darn testhing center. >>>> >>>> I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions >>>> about >>>> questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. >>>> I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so >>>> I >>>> know how they are worded. >>>> >>>> Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking >>>> the >>>> quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I >>>> might >>>> need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, >>>> I >>>> could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I >>>> read >>>> >>>> my >>>> >>>> memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can >>>> make >>>> >>>> other arrangements. Yay. >>>> It says >>>> Systems include: >>>> Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral >>>> administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron >>>> sheet. >>>> >>>> The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread >>>> it >>>> and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only >>>> accomodations >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, >>>> I >>>> think this sheet is on my side. >>>> >>>> My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; >>>> I >>>> had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the >>>> counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume >>>> you're >>>> >>>> going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take >>>> these >>>> >>>> short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would >>>> take >>>> longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than >>>> simply >>>> >>>> taking the short quiz in the building. >>>> >>>> So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the >>>> professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me >>>> to >>>> sit >>>> >>>> down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some >>>> offices. >>>> That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. >>>> IMO, >>>> >>>> it makes it >>>> easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for >>>> quizzes >>>> >>>> then which can be a hastle. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for >>>> something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except >>>> for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a >>>> different matter entirely. >>>> Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at >>>> my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe >>>> or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I >>>> agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. >>>> >>>> My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone >>>> else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to >>>> put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular >>>> time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save >>>> you time after class. >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >>>>> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >>>>> disabled >>>>> students. >>>>> >>>>> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where >>>>> students >>>>> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >>>>> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a >>>>> reader >>>>> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if >>>>> it >>>>> was an essay exam. >>>>> >>>>> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it >>>>> there >>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >>>>> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if >>>>> I >>>>> opt >>>>> to read it on the pc. >>>>> >>>>> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take >>>>> exams >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> separate building and whatever place for test takers with >>>>> disabilities? >>>>> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something >>>>> else >>>>> out; >>>>> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >>>>> >>>>> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >>>>> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >>>>> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >>>>> office. >>>>> >>>>> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >>>>> testing >>>>> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz >>>>> right >>>>> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or >>>>> bring >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >>>>> the >>>>> disability counseling center about this. >>>>> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing >>>>> center; >>>>> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I >>>>> get >>>>> the >>>>> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note >>>>> that >>>>> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >>>>> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather >>>>> than >>>>> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word >>>>> format >>>>> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for >>>>> me >>>>> to >>>>> take it on a electronic device. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >>>>> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking >>>>> the >>>>> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Feb 6 01:49:59 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 19:49:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Start by specifically saying what job you are applying for. then briefly tell them why you are qualified for the job/and what you can do for the company, then thank them for their consideration. It all should be on one page probably. Dave At 01:48 PM 2/5/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to >write a cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was >just wondering what the format and basics of what should go into a >cover letter were. >Thanks From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 02:19:36 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:19:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Hello, great suggestion to look online for samples; also ask your career center counselors. I'd write some instructions, but I'm not feeling well now. Maybe later. I've written many and my dad has editted them to ensure they are good ones. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cover letters Yes, and the best way to learn is to look up some example letters. There are lots online. Arielle On 2/5/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written > have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the > salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the > job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, > (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a > resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to > thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider > your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to > write it. Hope this helps. > > On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a >> cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering >> what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 02:30:17 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:30:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC><203B99192F4D4B179E89A1006AEFADB8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Arielle, Thanks. I'll definitely ask her and yes respond to any concerns she has. I have a feeling she is just being difficult and worried about breaking some sort of disability proticol. I guess I'll have to bring up the issue again; she said she'd get back to me and has not so that leaves me asking about it. I feel in a bind since I asked about these quizzes last week, three weeks in advance or more. We have a quiz next thursday; a week from this thursday. She cancelled class this thursday due to a faculty meeting. So I cannot touch base til next week, way too late to settle this matter. I intend to email her and try and resolve it; then try and call her. Maybe trying to reach her this thursday may help even though we won't have class, I know she's on campus. Anyway, that is more of the situation than you probably wanted to know; just wanted to vent kind of since I try hard to be proactive, try to be an advocate; she did not extend time for my online practice quizzes and further left me hanging about in class quizzes. This is bad because I need to schedule time in the testing center if I have to go there. I agree with you that I could just stay a few minutes after class to finish the quiz; she is in class anyway because students have questions. Gee, what a nightmare that was to walk way across campus to ask your professor a question; this isn't a math or science test, but I'd feel more comfortable knowing the professor is there to ask questions if I have them. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests Hi Ashley, It'd be worth asking your professor what her specific concerns are about letting you take the quiz in class, and then responding to her concerns with options to mitigate them. Is she concerned about integrity or potential cheating? Then you could offer to take the quiz on your laptop while she is watching your screen in her office. Is she worried about having you take up her office hours? This really shouldn't be an issue since professors should give up their office hours to accommodate student needs, but if it is, you could offer to take the quiz in class with everyone else and then sit in the classroom a few extra minutes if you do happen to take longer, which you may not. It's true that DSS can help if adaptive equipment malfunctions, sometimes, but the issue of not being able to ask the professor questions about the material if you test in the DSS office is not a trivial one. I recall freshman year, taking a biology lab exam in the DSS using JAWS. There was a technical drawing of something very biology-specific (can't remember exactly what anymore) and of course JAWS couldn't read it. Neither could the DSS staff, since they are not biologists. The only one who could verbally describe the drawing was my bio professor and so I had to walk across campus with a proctor trailing behind me to ask the prof what the drawing looked like. To make matters worse, for whatever reason I had opted to take the test early and when I walked into class to ask the professor, the students had not begun the test yet and my question gave away what was on the test. Needless to say it would have been much much easier if I had been in class and could have just gotten up to discreetly whisper my question to the professor. In science and math classes especially, DSS staff are unlikely to know how to provide clarification and this could have a serious effect on your test performance. The only time that taking a science or math test in DSS might be an advantage is if they have the facilities to provide a Braille copy of the test. More generally, I think it is very important for us to distinguish those who read to us or convert our materials from those who tutor or teach us. When I'm taking a test, I'd rather have support from someone who knows the content than from someone who knows about blindness. For most content areas, an electronic version of the test or a reader is a sufficient accommodation, and both are things we can obtain quite easily without DSS intervention. Arielle On 2/3/13, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi, > I really don't understand why a professor would require you to take a > test/quiz in the dss office rather than in class. Giving it to you as > an option yes, but a requirement? You should at least have the option > of completing the test/quiz in class at the same time as everyone > else. > Just my thoughts, > Danielle > > On 2/3/13, Jewel wrote: >> I have a late response that I would like to add, but it's not an >> affirmation, so please forgive me for that. >> >> In my time in college as a blind student, the only quizzes I have >> taken in class were of two categories: 1) pop quizzes that were given >> orally or 2) foreign language quizzes that had an oral component. >> >> In the first example, I would open word while everyone else took out >> paper and pencil, and I would type as they wrote. I would then turn in >> my saved document on a flash drive designated for that class, and the >> professor would return it after grading. In the second instance, the >> quiz/test was given to me as a word document as everyone got settled >> so I would have it open and ready when she began. I would then >> complete the oral section at the same time as everyone else (either at >> the beginning, or at a teacher-designated time in the quiz/test). Then >> I would complete the rest of the quiz/test and save the document on >> the flash drive designated for that class. The professor would take up >> the flash drive when she takes up everyone's quiz/test, then return >> the flash drive after grading. >> >> I think it is within a professor's right to require a student to take >> a quiz at the DSS office if it's not a pop quiz or has an oral >> component. For example, last semester's biology class (and this >> semester's biology class) require a 10-minute lab quiz every week. Lab >> is on Tuesday, so I take this lab quiz on Monday afternoons. I get >> double time, so twenty minutes. I don't normally need the full double >> time, but last week's quiz, there was an issue with calculators not >> working and I had to use a calculator I wasn't familiar with, so it >> took me longer to answer those questions I needed the calculator for. >> Issues like this can only be dealt with at the disability support >> services office. If I had been taking the quiz in the class and my >> talking calculator stopped working like that, the teacher could >> provide only a regular non-talking calculator, so I would be stuck >> without access to a calculator that was an easy solution at the DSS >> office. >> >> I don't feel that taking the lab quiz at DSS is too much trouble for >> me or for my professor. My professor e-mails the quiz to DSS to be >> checked for accessibility, and I get her to fill out a quiz form >> during her office hours. I take the quiz after school on Monday and >> plug my phone into earbuds and listen to music or play on an app while >> everyone else is taking the lab quiz in-class. It's not a big issue, >> and it worked last semester and is working just fine this semester. >> >> If your professor insists that you take the short quiz at the >> disability support services office, maybe this is something you should >> accept as part of requiring specialized equipment. Sure, it's nice to >> take the test in class with everyone else, but what happens when your >> technology stops working in the middle of the test? DSS isn't there to >> see you complete the test on another computer, get another talking >> calculator, or have a reader/scribe assist you. And in the class, you >> can forget about extra time. That's not fair to the other students if >> the professor has something planned for after the quiz. Why should >> they have to wait extra time because of your disability? Is that >> accommodating or reverse-discrimination? >> >> My two cents, >> Jewel >> >> >> On 2/3/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> thanks. I will chat with her again and we will see. >>> I agree its easier to hand me the quiz electronically rather than me >>> going >>> way to the testing center and having her send it there and pick it up >>> there. >>> >>> Hopefully, she will change her mind and I won't be inconvenienced andshe >>> will see its not a big deal. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor >>> first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't >>> want to get too into it without knowing all the details. >>> >>> Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't >>> really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a >>> microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than >>> sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or >>> whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and >>> quizzes in word anyway. >>> >>> I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the >>> quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's >>> really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue >>> like this with her again. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kaiti, >>>> >>>> Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my >>>> way >>>> to >>>> >>>> a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz >>>> there. >>>> I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about >>>> taking >>>> >>>> class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; >>>> I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash >>>> drive, >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> could read it. >>>> Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." >>>> Gee! >>>> >>>> If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in >>>> the >>>> darn testhing center. >>>> >>>> I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions >>>> about >>>> questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. >>>> I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so >>>> I >>>> know how they are worded. >>>> >>>> Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking >>>> the >>>> quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I >>>> might >>>> need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, >>>> I >>>> could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I >>>> read >>>> >>>> my >>>> >>>> memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can >>>> make >>>> >>>> other arrangements. Yay. >>>> It says >>>> Systems include: >>>> Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral >>>> administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron >>>> sheet. >>>> >>>> The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread >>>> it >>>> and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only >>>> accomodations >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, >>>> I >>>> think this sheet is on my side. >>>> >>>> My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; >>>> I >>>> had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the >>>> counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume >>>> you're >>>> >>>> going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take >>>> these >>>> >>>> short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would >>>> take >>>> longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than >>>> simply >>>> >>>> taking the short quiz in the building. >>>> >>>> So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the >>>> professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me >>>> to >>>> sit >>>> >>>> down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some >>>> offices. >>>> That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. >>>> IMO, >>>> >>>> it makes it >>>> easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for >>>> quizzes >>>> >>>> then which can be a hastle. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kaiti Shelton >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for >>>> something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except >>>> for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a >>>> different matter entirely. >>>> Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at >>>> my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe >>>> or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I >>>> agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. >>>> >>>> My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone >>>> else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to >>>> put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular >>>> time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save >>>> you time after class. >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >>>>> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >>>>> disabled >>>>> students. >>>>> >>>>> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where >>>>> students >>>>> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >>>>> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a >>>>> reader >>>>> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if >>>>> it >>>>> was an essay exam. >>>>> >>>>> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it >>>>> there >>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >>>>> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if >>>>> I >>>>> opt >>>>> to read it on the pc. >>>>> >>>>> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take >>>>> exams >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> separate building and whatever place for test takers with >>>>> disabilities? >>>>> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something >>>>> else >>>>> out; >>>>> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >>>>> >>>>> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >>>>> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >>>>> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >>>>> office. >>>>> >>>>> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >>>>> testing >>>>> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz >>>>> right >>>>> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or >>>>> bring >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >>>>> the >>>>> disability counseling center about this. >>>>> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing >>>>> center; >>>>> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I >>>>> get >>>>> the >>>>> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note >>>>> that >>>>> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >>>>> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather >>>>> than >>>>> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word >>>>> format >>>>> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for >>>>> me >>>>> to >>>>> take it on a electronic device. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >>>>> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking >>>>> the >>>>> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 02:57:34 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:57:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time Message-ID: Hi all, The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille or large print tests. As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation and employment myself. I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. Best, Arielle From gpaikens at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 04:03:57 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:03:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi Gloria, I just wanted to add a little to Kaiti's solid advice. I am by no means an expert in this area, but I have written quite a few of these for grad school applications, scholarships, and most recently applying for my first full time job out of college. This last time around something clicked and I feel like I did a much better job than earlier attempts. I consulted many online resources and my advice is a conglomoration from a number of them. The one I found to be the most helpful was ASk a manager, http://www.askamanager.org/category/cover-letters Check it out. I hope it is useful. Forgive me if I say the same thing they do on the site. Like I said, I drew a lot from it. Keep in mind the purpose of a cover letter when you are writing it. Your cover letter should add color and flavor to your resume. Where as a resume is a dry list of facts, a cover letter can let your personality show through. A cover letter should showcase your written communication skills. It should be very short. I recommend writing a draft with everything you want to say and then boiling it down to the essentials. Take out basically meaningless words like "very" and really." Use active verbs where possible instead of is/are/be etc. For example, the sentence, "I am a student at Vanderbilt University in the education program," could be tweaked by writing, "I study education at Vanderbilt University." It may seem like a small difference in length, but do that for every sentence and you can reduce your length quite a bit, giving you more room to discuss the important stuff or just generally making it easier and shorter to read. aS far as form of your letter: Start the letter with a sentence explaining why you are writing. I am applying for the position… etc. If you were referred by someone familiar to the company or person reading the letter, its ok to note that in the first paragraph too. I then give a brief synopsis of why I am a good candidate for whatever position, scholarship, graduate program. Limit it to a sentence, hinting toward what is to come. In the following paragraphs, outline your key qualities/personality traits/experiences you have had that make you ideal for the position. Be sure to link each item you mention back to how it qualifies you for the position. Listing your good qualities isn't bragging as long as you explain why it is relevant. For this reason, recycling cover letters isn't always appropriate. The things you talk about will be directly related to the demands of the job/program etc. Think hard about this section. Often you can't include every single thing in your life that makes you a good candidate. Pick the best ones and then polish them. End the letter by thanking them for their time and how you are looking forward to further communication. If it is a job application, its ok to express your eagerness to work for their company and why. Overall, be genuine, professional, and show your personality. Feel free to ask more questions. I would also be willing to edit a cover letter if you would like. Best of luck, Greg Aikens On Feb 5, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written > have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the > salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the > job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, > (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a > resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to > thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider > your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to > write it. Hope this helps. > > On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a >> cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering >> what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 04:12:11 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:12:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle and all, I agree that extended time is not always necessary for us. I was always given it in high school for tests even though I may not have needed it. In college it has become more of a hinderance than a help because some professors expect me to take tests in our testing center, when it would be easier for all of us if I took them in class. Most of us have our screenreaders reading at a speed faster than most people talk, and I agree with Arielle that we should not be expected to read braille slower just because it is braille. That doesn't make much sense. I think the problem is that there are situations when we actually do need extended time. When we use readers is a good example. I think besides that I only asked for extended time on my music history tests because my professor would put matching on the tests. Matching is a little annoying to do with jaws and takes longer if you can't simply skim what the choices are. But I only needed an extra 10 minutes or so. My point is that it's hard to take extended time on a case by case basis. Either we get it for everything, or we get it for nothing. I doubt there is any other way to deal with extended time. On 2/5/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about > why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not > this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for > any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking > slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have > to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and > asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra > time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology > breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether > extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or > for Braille or large print tests. > As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I > found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully > understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot > when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad > with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use > the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and > then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time > was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel > it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that > I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted > extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to > deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille > readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it > allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds > than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille > reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* > grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the > process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who > reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the > implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing > can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I > don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job > world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation > and employment myself. > I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just > proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is > specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it > is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions > about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when > it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students > progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why > we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill > issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the > future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably > won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading > speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with > training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more > competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as > sightedd colleagues. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 04:43:17 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:43:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Granted, I'm only a freshman, but I totally agree with this 100%. I tend to use a little extra time on things like Theory tests because entering music into Lime takes a little longer, and I expect to use a little extra time on stats to allow for making graphs and verbally instructing the person who will act as my hands on the graphing calculator, but for everything else like English, History, or Psych tests I'm always able to take them in class and finish around the same time as everyone else if not before. I think the key is to take it on a case by case basis if at all possible. The way things work at my university is that if you want your testing accomodations in the testing center you have to schedule it via an online form. Otherwise it's assumed that you will communicate arrangements with your professor and the responsibility falls on you. I'm fortunate that my theory teacher will allow me to do as much as I can in the same time frame as everyone else and then still grant me my extra time if I need it; he stayed an extra hour and a half with me last semester when I took my final exam. My stats prof is understanding too. There was an issue with my braille from the disability office and he extended my due date the same number of days that I didn't have access to the material and was unable to do any work on the assignment. On the flip side, last semester I scheduled my history midterm in the testing center since I thought it would be more in depth than a typical quiz. Out of the 70 minutes my sighted classmates had to complete the test and the 140 I had at my disposal I only used 35 and wondered why I had gone through the extra trouble of making sure my test was scheduled and my professor had got the file to the testing office if she could have just emailed it to me like she usually did. It really is important to use discression when possible to make the most time for yourself in addition to all the other reasons Arielle and Julie listed earlier. On 2/5/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi Arielle and all, > > I agree that extended time is not always necessary for us. I was > always given it in high school for tests even though I may not have > needed it. In college it has become more of a hinderance than a help > because some professors expect me to take tests in our testing center, > when it would be easier for all of us if I took them in class. Most > of us have our screenreaders reading at a speed faster than most > people talk, and I agree with Arielle that we should not be expected > to read braille slower just because it is braille. That doesn't make > much sense. > > I think the problem is that there are situations when we actually do > need extended time. When we use readers is a good example. I think > besides that I only asked for extended time on my music history tests > because my professor would put matching on the tests. Matching is a > little annoying to do with jaws and takes longer if you can't simply > skim what the choices are. But I only needed an extra 10 minutes or > so. My point is that it's hard to take extended time on a case by > case basis. Either we get it for everything, or we get it for > nothing. I doubt there is any other way to deal with extended time. > > On 2/5/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> for Braille or large print tests. >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> and employment myself. >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> sightedd colleagues. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 04:47:06 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:47:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, Greg had great suggestions too. Also, I like Ashley's point of going to your career counselor for advice too. There also might be a writing center on your campus which might help too. They could give you more mechanical advice while the career counseling service can advise on content and phrasing. Hope this helps and good luck! On 2/5/13, Greg Aikens wrote: > Hi Gloria, > I just wanted to add a little to Kaiti's solid advice. I am by no means > an expert in this area, but I have written quite a few of these for grad > school applications, scholarships, and most recently applying for my first > full time job out of college. This last time around something clicked and I > feel like I did a much better job than earlier attempts. I consulted many > online resources and my advice is a conglomoration from a number of them. > The one I found to be the most helpful was ASk a manager, > http://www.askamanager.org/category/cover-letters > Check it out. I hope it is useful. Forgive me if I say the same thing they > do on the site. Like I said, I drew a lot from it. > > Keep in mind the purpose of a cover letter when you are writing it. Your > cover letter should add color and flavor to your resume. Where as a resume > is a dry list of facts, a cover letter can let your personality show > through. A cover letter should showcase your written communication skills. > It should be very short. I recommend writing a draft with everything you > want to say and then boiling it down to the essentials. Take out basically > meaningless words like "very" and really." Use active verbs where possible > instead of is/are/be etc. For example, the sentence, "I am a student at > Vanderbilt University in the education program," could be tweaked by > writing, "I study education at Vanderbilt University." It may seem like a > small difference in length, but do that for every sentence and you can > reduce your length quite a bit, giving you more room to discuss the > important stuff or just generally making it easier and shorter to read. > > aS far as form of your letter: Start the letter with a sentence explaining > why you are writing. I am applying for the position… etc. If you were > referred by someone familiar to the company or person reading the letter, > its ok to note that in the first paragraph too. I then give a brief > synopsis of why I am a good candidate for whatever position, scholarship, > graduate program. Limit it to a sentence, hinting toward what is to come. > > > In the following paragraphs, outline your key qualities/personality > traits/experiences you have had that make you ideal for the position. Be > sure to link each item you mention back to how it qualifies you for the > position. Listing your good qualities isn't bragging as long as you explain > why it is relevant. For this reason, recycling cover letters isn't always > appropriate. The things you talk about will be directly related to the > demands of the job/program etc. Think hard about this section. Often you > can't include every single thing in your life that makes you a good > candidate. Pick the best ones and then polish them. > > End the letter by thanking them for their time and how you are looking > forward to further communication. If it is a job application, its ok to > express your eagerness to work for their company and why. > > Overall, be genuine, professional, and show your personality. > > Feel free to ask more questions. I would also be willing to edit a cover > letter if you would like. > > Best of luck, > Greg Aikens > On Feb 5, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> A cover letter is much like a business letter. The one's I've written >> have used business letter format for headings and punctuation in the >> salutation. The body should discuss why you would be good for the >> job, your good qualities, and give a little backbone to your resume, >> (I'm assuming this cover letter you're writing will accompany a >> resume). Remember to be polite and formal and it always helps to >> thank the person for taking the time to read your letter or consider >> your application at the end. That's how I've always been required to >> write it. Hope this helps. >> >> On 2/5/13, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a >>> cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just >>> wondering >>> what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. >>> Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From codyjbair at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 05:10:06 2013 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:10:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class Message-ID: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? Thanks, Cody From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 07:25:37 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:25:37 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle This is a very interesting question. In the past I don't think I needed as much extra time as I do now, because for a BA you could type facts and think your answers like other people. With Law however I do find that I need extra time more than sighted people, this could be because I have not found a way to deal properly with my problem or it just naturally takes longer. What I am meaning is this. When a sighted person has their normal print paper with a complex case, what they are taught to do in class is to underline and highlight the important points, draw lines from a protagonist to matching points, they use aids that are just not available to me. When I plan my answers, I have to open another document and make notes, or have to rely on memory, not being able to emphasise things on a paper or make lines etc. I would never cope without extra time. Some other instances where extra time is useful even if you are using braille is if you are trying to write an exam in a language that doesn't have a speech synthesizer and you totally have to rely on a single-line braille display to write and check things which is a little slower. I'm also interested in what you were saying about diagrams and the problems. I don't have much experiences of diagrams, but I did some geometry in high school, and I am probably a million times worse with spatial things, geometry and maps than you are, as diagrams here are possible, but they are very much a luxury. By the way my sense of direction is also incredibly bad, would love some advice if there's anything that can be done about that. I think to be honest that even if you think you could improve your diagram abilities it is actually very difficult. As far as I know a sighted person, the eye sort of can capture the full image of a diagram in one go, and sort of processes it better. I just find that when I'm trying to understand a diagram by feeling it, it just feels like so much detail and interpretation that is trying to going on there, I definitely think you need extra time when trying to work with these. I'm sure its because I haven't been exposed much to diagrams, but even if I get shown a diagram, I've never seen it before I probably could never guess what it actually is. I wonder if sighted people have that problem. I'm also curious whether my university even uses the correct material to draw diagrams. They use a thing called zyfuse oven, and I find the diagrams from there really uncomfortable to feel and even more difficult to interpret and use than if they are on paper. For the most part I don't think one should worry too much about time allowances on the job, because, if I'm correct you generally know ages before what needs to be done and there's enough time, I don't think one is under as much pressure as with an exam. Ari On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Granted, I'm only a freshman, but I totally agree with this 100%. I > tend to use a little extra time on things like Theory tests because > entering music into Lime takes a little longer, and I expect to use a > little extra time on stats to allow for making graphs and verbally > instructing the person who will act as my hands on the graphing > calculator, but for everything else like English, History, or Psych > tests I'm always able to take them in class and finish around the same > time as everyone else if not before. I think the key is to take it on > a case by case basis if at all possible. The way things work at my > university is that if you want your testing accomodations in the > testing center you have to schedule it via an online form. Otherwise > it's assumed that you will communicate arrangements with your > professor and the responsibility falls on you. I'm fortunate that my > theory teacher will allow me to do as much as I can in the same time > frame as everyone else and then still grant me my extra time if I need > it; he stayed an extra hour and a half with me last semester when I > took my final exam. My stats prof is understanding too. There was an > issue with my braille from the disability office and he extended my > due date the same number of days that I didn't have access to the > material and was unable to do any work on the assignment. On the flip > side, last semester I scheduled my history midterm in the testing > center since I thought it would be more in depth than a typical quiz. > Out of the 70 minutes my sighted classmates had to complete the test > and the 140 I had at my disposal I only used 35 and wondered why I had > gone through the extra trouble of making sure my test was scheduled > and my professor had got the file to the testing office if she could > have just emailed it to me like she usually did. It really is > important to use discression when possible to make the most time for > yourself in addition to all the other reasons Arielle and Julie listed > earlier. > > On 2/5/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi Arielle and all, >> >> I agree that extended time is not always necessary for us. I was >> always given it in high school for tests even though I may not have >> needed it. In college it has become more of a hinderance than a help >> because some professors expect me to take tests in our testing center, >> when it would be easier for all of us if I took them in class. Most >> of us have our screenreaders reading at a speed faster than most >> people talk, and I agree with Arielle that we should not be expected >> to read braille slower just because it is braille. That doesn't make >> much sense. >> >> I think the problem is that there are situations when we actually do >> need extended time. When we use readers is a good example. I think >> besides that I only asked for extended time on my music history tests >> because my professor would put matching on the tests. Matching is a >> little annoying to do with jaws and takes longer if you can't simply >> skim what the choices are. But I only needed an extra 10 minutes or >> so. My point is that it's hard to take extended time on a case by >> case basis. Either we get it for everything, or we get it for >> nothing. I doubt there is any other way to deal with extended time. >> >> On 2/5/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>> for Braille or large print tests. >>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>> and employment myself. >>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>> sightedd colleagues. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us Wed Feb 6 11:59:12 2013 From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 06:59:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51124590.2090200@gtwebdesign.us> Hello, I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual descriptions of those flowcharts. Greg Wocher On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: > Hi All, > I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? > Thanks, > Cody > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 14:55:40 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:55:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <51124590.2090200@gtwebdesign.us> References: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <51124590.2090200@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: <135D90CC-7E84-470A-9142-E3EE0B904188@gmail.com> What is CIS class? Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 5:59 AM, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello, > I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual descriptions of those flowcharts. > > Greg Wocher > On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: >> Hi All, >> I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? >> Thanks, >> Cody >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Wed Feb 6 14:57:49 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:57:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <135D90CC-7E84-470A-9142-E3EE0B904188@gmail.com> References: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <51124590.2090200@gtwebdesign.us>, <135D90CC-7E84-470A-9142-E3EE0B904188@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Sophie. I have to have this class, in the Fall. It's Computer Information Systems. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist [sweetpeareader at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CIS Class What is CIS class? Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 5:59 AM, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello, > I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual descriptions of those flowcharts. > > Greg Wocher > On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: >> Hi All, >> I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? >> Thanks, >> Cody >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 17:10:36 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 12:10:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1360127406.64764.YahooMailClassic@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65C182413A8D44A78217620296123A5C@OwnerPC> I suggest having the flow charts made tactually with puff paint or tape. Your professor or someone could make them and describe them to you. not sure how you would make them yourself. Perhaps describing the relationships in words would suffice. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cody Bair Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 12:10 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class Hi All, I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? Thanks, Cody _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 17:34:53 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 12:34:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> Hi Arielle, Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not others. But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math if you beg for it. So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best answer. A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure they circled the right one. I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same line but jaws isn't reading like that. Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the many cases I do need it. Now, I just hope I can get extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for me to get extended time. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time Hi all, The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille or large print tests. As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation and employment myself. I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 18:50:16 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:50:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Ashley, I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi Arielle, > Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. > I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. > > I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not others. > But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. > > I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of > the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. > As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math if you beg for it. > > So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best answer. > A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. > If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure they circled the right one. > > I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. > I'm confused as to what radio button goes > with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same line but jaws isn't reading like that. > Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz > begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. > > I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats > take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the many cases I do need it. > > Now, I just hope I can get > extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for me to get extended time. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Hi all, > The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about > why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not > this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for > any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking > slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have > to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and > asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra > time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology > breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether > extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or > for Braille or large print tests. > As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I > found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully > understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot > when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad > with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use > the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and > then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time > was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel > it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that > I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted > extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to > deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille > readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it > allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds > than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille > reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* > grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the > process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who > reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the > implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing > can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I > don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job > world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation > and employment myself. > I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just > proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is > specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it > is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions > about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when > it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students > progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why > we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill > issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the > future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably > won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading > speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with > training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more > competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as > sightedd colleagues. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From djdan567 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 19:14:17 2013 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:14:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan Show Live Message-ID: Hey guys! I know it's been a while, but I still do exist. I have had some great opportunities lately in my life that I am taking advantage of. I wanted to stop by, check in and let you know about a weekly radio show I do every Wednesday from 7-10 PM eastern time. A string of topics, phone calls, funny segments, entertainment stories, along with music flows smoothly behind microphones in a small room, broadcasted over the internet every week on this show. We are five loud-mouthed radio personalities who love to have a good time. The show is filled with sarcasm, comedy, embarrassment, and everything in between. We love to have so much fun. Our favorite part of the show? Taking your phone calls. We love to hear what you have to say. So during the show, we give out an 800 number you can call us with and just talk to us right there and then. The show consist of myself, and my friends Greg, Rigo, Carissa, and Erick. I hope you can check us out tonight or even partake with us on our social networking pages. The direct link to listen is: http://listen.tbrn.net:8888/tbrn.mp3 Check out our facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thedanshowlive Our Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/thedanshowlive And from time to time we'll be posting our interviews, and airchecks soundcloud: http://www.soundcloud.com/thedanshowlive We hope to hear from you tonight! DOn't be shy, and do us a favor and call in! -- Daniel C. Romero Bergen Community College '14 Host, imager, and producer, The Dan ShowLive Cell: 973-842-1600 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/djdan567 Twitter: @Djdan567 From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 19:14:53 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:14:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Agreed. I use that trick as well as using x for finding checkboxes because some of those are used for those instead of radio boxes on some of our online tests. Most of the time if I know either radio buttons are checkboxes are there I'll hit r or x and then just arrow up to find the question. It saves a lot of time that would otherwise be spent arrowing down past links, advertisements, or other junk that isn't relevant to the class. The best approach is to let your professors know beforehand that you may not always need extended time. With the exception of some exams I always test in class at the same time as everyone else and usually finish in time. If not, I can go to my professors and give them back their flashdrive to keep until we can set up an office appointment to finish the test. On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the > case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first > question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least > for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my > screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi Arielle, >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not >> others. >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >> if you beg for it. >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best >> answer. >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >> they circled the right one. >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the >> many cases I do need it. >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >> me to get extended time. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Hi all, >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> for Braille or large print tests. >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> and employment myself. >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> sightedd colleagues. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 19:18:49 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:18:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: New note taking app from AFB In-Reply-To: <51129cd0.46ab320a.3a65.055b@mx.google.com> References: <51129cd0.46ab320a.3a65.055b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a cool app. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- New American Foundation for the Blind App Helps People with Vision Loss Easily Take Notes on iPhone®, iPad®, and iPod touch® New York (February 1, 2013)—For the millions of Americans with vision loss looking for a simple, convenient way to take notes at work, at school, or at home, the American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) today launched the AccessNote™, a specialized notetaker for the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch. “Apple products have earned high points from us for their out-of-the-box accessibility for users who are blind or visually impaired,” said Carl R. Augusto, AFB president and CEO. “We designed this app to complement the iPhone’s other popular features, like web browsing and email, so that users who are blind have all the tools they need in one, handy device.” A traditional notetaker is a portable electronic device that enables users who are blind or visually impaired to take notes, create documents, and access applications. These devices, extremely valuable for people who are blind or visually impaired, usually provide either speech or braille output (or both). They retail for upwards of $2,000 and much more for those with a built-in braille display; AFB’s AccessNote app is available for $19.99. In addition to being a low-cost alternative to traditional notetakers, AccessNote allows users to combine efficient notetaking with many other features and functions of the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch. This allows people who are blind or visually impaired to use the same popular devices that their sighted peers are using in classroom or business settings. This is the first notetaking app developed and designed specifically for users with vision loss. AFB evaluated many of the other available notetaking apps, but found none to be very efficient or user-friendly to people who are blind or visually impaired. What sets the AccessNote apart includes: * Seamless Navigation. Customized keyboard commands make notetaking more intuitive and productive than ever before, including quick access to important features like Search All Notes, Search Within a Note, as well as several navigation options. * Automatic Saving. With an automatic save on every few keystrokes, notes will never be lost. * Cursor tracking. When navigating among multiple sets of notes, users can always pick up right where they left off. * Unparalleled Simplicity. With a clutter-free interface, users can create, read, find, and sync, making it easier to spend more time with actual content and less time with tools. * DropBox Integration. All notes, always on hand. DropBox keeps AccessNote in sync with the user’s desktop (and other devices) so their notes are always available and backed up. * Compatibility with Bluetooth keyboards. AccessNote is optimized for efficiency with the Apple Wireless Keyboard and for today’s wireless braille displays. AccessNote was developed in conjunction with FloCo Apps and is available on the App Store(sm). -- Kaiti From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 19:34:42 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 12:34:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22BE12D1-C5B9-4062-B551-89D7038490C4@gmail.com> Katie, I've known my fair share of professors who, I think rightly so, insist that I take the test all in one sitting. I kind of prefer that, anyway, so I am not tempted to go home and study more. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Agreed. I use that trick as well as using x for finding checkboxes > because some of those are used for those instead of radio boxes on > some of our online tests. Most of the time if I know either radio > buttons are checkboxes are there I'll hit r or x and then just arrow > up to find the question. It saves a lot of time that would otherwise > be spent arrowing down past links, advertisements, or other junk that > isn't relevant to the class. > > The best approach is to let your professors know beforehand that you > may not always need extended time. With the exception of some exams I > always test in class at the same time as everyone else and usually > finish in time. If not, I can go to my professors and give them back > their flashdrive to keep until we can set up an office appointment to > finish the test. > > On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: >> Ashley, >> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the >> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first >> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least >> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular >> question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just >> apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. >> For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are >> the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If >> an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, >> I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my >> screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I >> don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an >> advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Arielle, >>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as >>> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed >>> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me >>> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted >>> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>> >>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a >>> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not >>> others. >>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>> >>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >>> if you beg for it. >>> >>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple >>> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I >>> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best >>> answer. >>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >>> they circled the right one. >>> >>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>> >>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the >>> many cases I do need it. >>> >>> Now, I just hope I can get >>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >>> me to get extended time. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Hi all, >>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>> for Braille or large print tests. >>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>> and employment myself. >>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>> sightedd colleagues. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 20:54:32 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 15:54:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kirt, I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for radio buttons. Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there are four buttons for four choices per answer. I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my choice. I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each answer. I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the answer but its not like that. Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class quizzes though. Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time Ashley, I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi Arielle, > Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a > bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. > I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high > school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as > they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed > to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me > since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted > as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. > > I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a > case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not > others. > But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across > the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. > > I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of > the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since > sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. > As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math > if you beg for it. > > So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple > choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I > read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best > answer. > A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by > line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. > If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure > they circled the right one. > > I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I > need to scroll back up to check my answers. > I'm confused as to what radio button goes > with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same > line but jaws isn't reading like that. > Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz > begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to > help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. > > I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats > take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the > many cases I do need it. > > Now, I just hope I can get > extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for > me to get extended time. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Hi all, > The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about > why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not > this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for > any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking > slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have > to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and > asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra > time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology > breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether > extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or > for Braille or large print tests. > As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I > found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully > understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot > when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad > with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use > the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and > then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time > was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel > it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that > I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted > extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to > deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille > readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it > allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds > than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille > reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* > grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the > process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who > reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the > implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing > can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I > don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job > world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation > and employment myself. > I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just > proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is > specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it > is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions > about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when > it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students > progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why > we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill > issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the > future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably > won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading > speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with > training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more > competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as > sightedd colleagues. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 21:08:24 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 23:08:24 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. Ari Ari On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kirt, > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for radio > buttons. > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there > are four buttons for four choices per answer. > I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my choice. I > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me to > the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to > explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each > answer. > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the > answer but its not like that. > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz > with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level > it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for > heading 3. > > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say > question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by line > through the questions. Maybe I should do that. > > > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and find > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if I > feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class > quizzes though. > > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Ashley, > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the > case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first > question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least > for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my > screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi Arielle, >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as >> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed >> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a >> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not >> others. >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >> if you beg for it. >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple >> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best >> answer. >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >> they circled the right one. >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the >> many cases I do need it. >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >> me to get extended time. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Hi all, >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> for Braille or large print tests. >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> and employment myself. >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> sightedd colleagues. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 21:29:34 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:29:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC><2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8DFA1920271E434EBB09E3F4D4590ADA@OwnerPC> Ari, We use blackboard. in my case the online quizzes are at home but all class quizzes are given with pen and paper; some professors use scantrons, but a lot is simply writing by hand and them grading by hand still. Blind students do it on the pc though since that is how we can read the quiz or test. Most professors won't trust everyone to do online tests/ quizzes nor are most classrooms equipped with 30 computers for everyone to do a quiz or exam online. Just to clarify, I do not think most universities have online quizzes in class as the norm, unless its an online class. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. Ari Ari On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kirt, > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for > radio > buttons. > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there > are four buttons for four choices per answer. > I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my choice. > I > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me to > the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to > explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each > answer. > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the > answer but its not like that. > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz > with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level > it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for > heading 3. > > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say > question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by > line > through the questions. Maybe I should do that. > > > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and > find > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if I > feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class > quizzes though. > > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Ashley, > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the > case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first > question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least > for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with > particular > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to > just > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time > are > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. > If > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them > are, > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, > my > screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While > I > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi Arielle, >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI >> as >> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >> needed >> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on >> a >> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not >> others. >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >> if you beg for it. >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >> multiple >> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best >> answer. >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >> they circled the right one. >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >> same >> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the >> many cases I do need it. >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >> me to get extended time. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Hi all, >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> for Braille or large print tests. >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> and employment myself. >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> sightedd colleagues. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 21:47:22 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:47:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> Ashley, I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before. And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five or 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the quiz, but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or whatever, it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. The ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible within the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 different statements, and you have to match each statement with the person who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up for me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to really confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of time. But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years of practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. Best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Kirt, > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for radio buttons. > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there are four buttons for four choices per answer. > I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my choice. I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each answer. > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the answer but its not like that. > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. > > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. > > > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class quizzes though. > > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Ashley, > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than many sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> Hi Arielle, >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not others. >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math if you beg for it. >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best answer. >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure they circled the right one. >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the many cases I do need it. >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for me to get extended time. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Hi all, >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> for Braille or large print tests. >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> and employment myself. >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> sightedd colleagues. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 21:58:51 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:58:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ashley, I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure what the answer is? Best, Kirt On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before. > And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five or > 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the quiz, > but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or whatever, > it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. The > ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible within > the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 > different statements, and you have to match each statement with the person > who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up for > me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each > question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, > listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to really > confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of time. > But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years of > practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. > Best, > Kirt > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Kirt, >> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >> radio buttons. >> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there >> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my choice. >> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me >> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to >> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >> answer. >> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the >> answer but its not like that. >> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz >> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level >> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for >> heading 3. >> >> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >> >> >> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and >> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted >> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >> class quizzes though. >> >> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Ashley, >> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the >> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first >> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least >> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been really >> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am >> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant >> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In >> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than many >> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, >> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most >> people don't have. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Arielle, >>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI >>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort >>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>> >>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on >>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and >>> not others. >>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>> >>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >>> if you beg for it. >>> >>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic >>> the best answer. >>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >>> they circled the right one. >>> >>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>> >>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the >>> many cases I do need it. >>> >>> Now, I just hope I can get >>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >>> me to get extended time. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Hi all, >>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>> for Braille or large print tests. >>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>> and employment myself. >>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>> sightedd colleagues. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From amieelsabo at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 22:24:14 2013 From: amieelsabo at gmail.com (Amy Sabo) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 15:24:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters In-Reply-To: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> References: <16D58F1DDA39480AA1D90991050E387C@Gloria> Message-ID: <010701ce04b8$b2fbc0e0$18f342a0$@gmail.com> Hello all, As to writing a cover letter you need to include the following information. Tell in the first paragraph on what job that you are applying for and, then in the second paragraph give your experiences, accomplishments, and background in this job that you that you are applying for. In the final paragraph give when you are available for a interview and, then give your email address and phone number on where they can contact you. Always close with a friendly closing. At the top of the letter put your mailing address, the date and, the address to where you are applying for. Those are on how I write a cover letter. Take care and good luck in finding employment. Hugs, amy -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] cover letters Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on how to write a cover letter? I have never had to write one before and was just wondering what the format and basics of what should go into a cover letter were. Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Wed Feb 6 22:35:23 2013 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:35:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Message-ID: <5112DAAB.3010409@pcdesk.net> Greetings, I haven't been on this list in quite some time. I'm currently working for the military, and I'm working on getting into a program where they assist with graduate level education. They require, as part of the process, that you have a minimum GRE score. Is there anyone on this list who has taken and passed the GRE? I'm looking for information on accommodations. is the electronic version accessible or will I need to do something else? What's the process for receiving accommodations? is there anything else that people who have taken the GRE can tell me that might be helpful? Any help would be much appreciated. I'm not overly worried about the test itself, but I need to be sure I am not going to run into silly problems taking it. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 6 22:35:29 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC><2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com><42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> Kirt, I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue extended time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it takes slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't need to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer. But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other two; that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion. No, I do not always use all extended time; it may depend on the class. But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed. For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business final or my intro to computer concepts final. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time Ashley, I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure what the answer is? Best, Kirt On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before. > And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five or > 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the > quiz, > but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or > whatever, > it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. The > ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible within > the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 > different statements, and you have to match each statement with the person > who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up > for > me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each > question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, > listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to > really > confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of > time. > But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years of > practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. > Best, > Kirt > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Kirt, >> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >> radio buttons. >> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there >> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my >> choice. >> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me >> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to >> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >> answer. >> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the >> answer but its not like that. >> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz >> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >> level >> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 >> for >> heading 3. >> >> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >> >> >> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and >> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted >> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >> class quizzes though. >> >> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Ashley, >> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be >> the >> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first >> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least >> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been >> really >> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am >> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that >> warrant >> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. >> In >> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >> many >> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, >> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most >> people don't have. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Arielle, >>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI >>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort >>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>> >>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on >>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and >>> not others. >>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across >>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>> >>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math >>> if you beg for it. >>> >>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic >>> the best answer. >>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >>> they circled the right one. >>> >>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to >>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>> >>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in >>> the >>> many cases I do need it. >>> >>> Now, I just hope I can get >>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for >>> me to get extended time. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Hi all, >>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>> for Braille or large print tests. >>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>> and employment myself. >>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>> sightedd colleagues. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 00:15:19 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:15:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks for entertaining my questions about extended time. I do think Julie makes a good point that it's hard to go on a case-by-case basis when setting a policy about extended time for testing. I do also agree that sometimes the accommodations we use are inadequate for allowing us to take a test in the time allotted for sighted students. I guess I was thinking more in a K-12 ed situation, in which case education decisions should be case-by-case as in IEP's. I remember in elementary school, having to take standardized tests and being given double time to complete my Brailled test. I was literally required to sit until the double time was up if I finished in the same time as the sighted classmates. I also remember my TVI bragging about how fast I was because I finished question sets without going into double time. The fact is that should not have been something worthy of bragging. It just meant I knew the material and was taught Braille at an appropriate age. It is sad when the expectation of blind students is to be slower and a blind student performing at average or above-average speed is shocking. But that's a whole other topic for another day. I don't think we should advocate to not get extended time in college because, again, there are legitimate situations when the technology or reader takes longer for some reason. I would however suggest that if we as individuals choose to use the extra time or find ourselves needing it a lot, we might want to examine what is taking longer and whether the accommodations we are using are inadequate. For example, as Ashley said, maybe her testing website isn't fully accessible and so a reader would be more efficient. On the other hand, for some of us taking extra time may be a sign that we just don't understand the material very well and could benefit from some tutoring or some more practice with Braille or computers. I think it's fair to suggest that our goal should be to do things without any extra time whenever possible, but still allow ourselves to use it occasionally if we really need it and can't find a way to remedy the situation. Does that make sense? Arielle On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kirt, > I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue extended > time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it takes > slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't need > > to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer. > But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other two; > that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion. > No, I do not always use all extended time; it may depend on the class. > But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed. > For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business final or > > my > intro to computer concepts final. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Ashley, > I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where > you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, > because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's > no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two > answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right > from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what > the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of > course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate > answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about > a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms > about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, > that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice > test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read > things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take > extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure > what the answer is? > Best, > Kirt > > On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: >> Ashley, >> I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before. >> And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five >> or >> 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the >> quiz, >> but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or >> whatever, >> it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. >> The >> ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible within >> the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 >> different statements, and you have to match each statement with the >> person >> who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up >> for >> me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each >> question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, >> listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to >> really >> confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of >> time. >> But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years >> of >> practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Kirt, >>> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >>> radio buttons. >>> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>> there >>> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my >>> choice. >>> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me >>> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to >>> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >>> answer. >>> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the >>> answer but its not like that. >>> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz >>> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >>> level >>> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 >>> for >>> heading 3. >>> >>> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >>> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >>> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>> >>> >>> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and >>> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>> granted >>> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >>> class quizzes though. >>> >>> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Ashley, >>> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be >>> the >>> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >>> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first >>> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at >>> least >>> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >>> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been >>> really >>> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am >>> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that >>> warrant >>> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >>> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. >>> In >>> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>> many >>> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with >>> braille, >>> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most >>> people don't have. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arielle, >>>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a >>>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI >>>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >>>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable >>>> time >>>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort >>>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>> >>>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given >>>> on >>>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and >>>> not others. >>>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>> across >>>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>>> >>>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe >>>> math >>>> if you beg for it. >>>> >>>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any >>>> test >>>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to >>>> pic >>>> the best answer. >>>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by >>>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >>>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure >>>> they circled the right one. >>>> >>>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >>>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >>>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading >>>> to >>>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>>> >>>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats >>>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in >>>> the >>>> many cases I do need it. >>>> >>>> Now, I just hope I can get >>>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed >>>> for >>>> me to get extended time. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>>> for Braille or large print tests. >>>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>>> and employment myself. >>>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>>> sightedd colleagues. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 00:19:04 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:19:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE In-Reply-To: <5112DAAB.3010409@pcdesk.net> References: <5112DAAB.3010409@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Hi Joseph, There are lots of GRE veterans on this list and if you search the archives you should find lots of info. Also, Ruth Loew is assistant director of disability policy at ETS and she has worked with NABS for many years and is always willing to help students figure out the accommodations process. Her email is: rloew at ets.org The short answer to your question is that you can take the GRE in Braille, large print, with a reader or on the computer using a self-voicing version of the test with a built-in screen reader. If you use Braille you will be assigned a scribe to record your answers and can use a Perkins Brailler for scratchwork on the math sections and essay writing. I think the self-voicing test comes with a Braille question booklet so you can follow reading comprehension passages and math diagrams. For that reason I don't think the self-voicing test progresses according to your answers like the computer test for sighted people does. Other than that, though, they should be pretty equivalent. Arielle On 2/6/13, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Greetings, > I haven't been on this list in quite some time. I'm currently working > for the military, and I'm working on getting into a program where they > assist with graduate level education. They require, as part of the > process, that you have a minimum GRE score. Is there anyone on this list > who has taken and passed the GRE? I'm looking for information on > accommodations. is the electronic version accessible or will I need to > do something else? What's the process for receiving accommodations? is > there anything else that people who have taken the GRE can tell me that > might be helpful? Any help would be much appreciated. I'm not overly > worried about the test itself, but I need to be sure I am not going to > run into silly problems taking it. > > -- > "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box > Joseph C. Lininger, > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Feb 7 01:23:01 2013 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:23:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE In-Reply-To: References: <5112DAAB.3010409@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <511301F5.2050905@pcdesk.net> Arielle, Thank you very much; that's pretty much exactly the information I was looking for. I shall contact Ruth Loew as you suggested and work out my accommodations. I was glad to hear something positive; I had been hearing a lot of negative feedback about ETS and their willingness to accommodate a few years ago. When I learned I was going to have to go through it, there was a certain amount of dread involved. I figured it might end up being a lot harder than it looks like it's actually going to be. Joe From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 02:15:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 21:15:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Kirt, I understand what you're saying, but that is hard to do when you're carrying 22 credits and have other classes to attend right after the other. I'm still required to finish my tests the same day that they were originally given, but like today for example I had a test in one class and because I had to flip back and forth between my microsoft word document and the music excerpt I was writing in Goodfeel it took me extra time. Coincidentally, I had another class with another test right after that one, so my teacher took back the flashdrive and we made an office appointment for a few hours later after my other three classes and other 2 tests of the day were done. As I was in other classes and focused on the material and my professor had the flashdrive with the exam files, there really wasn't a way I could have studied. My professors do safeguard against cheating, which I don't do anyway, but they're also understanding that I'm carrying a heavy courseload and have other time demands placed on me. However, on your point about using process of elimination in test situations I wholeheartedly agree that it just makes sense; I can't remember not doing it even when I was a kid just because it saves so much time. Arielle: Thanks for starting the topic. It's really interesting to think about and hear other people's takes on the issue. On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Thanks for entertaining my questions about extended time. I do think > Julie makes a good point that it's hard to go on a case-by-case basis > when setting a policy about extended time for testing. I do also agree > that sometimes the accommodations we use are inadequate for allowing > us to take a test in the time allotted for sighted students. I guess I > was thinking more in a K-12 ed situation, in which case education > decisions should be case-by-case as in IEP's. > I remember in elementary school, having to take standardized tests and > being given double time to complete my Brailled test. I was literally > required to sit until the double time was up if I finished in the same > time as the sighted classmates. I also remember my TVI bragging about > how fast I was because I finished question sets without going into > double time. The fact is that should not have been something worthy of > bragging. It just meant I knew the material and was taught Braille at > an appropriate age. It is sad when the expectation of blind students > is to be slower and a blind student performing at average or > above-average speed is shocking. But that's a whole other topic for > another day. > I don't think we should advocate to not get extended time in college > because, again, there are legitimate situations when the technology or > reader takes longer for some reason. I would however suggest that if > we as individuals choose to use the extra time or find ourselves > needing it a lot, we might want to examine what is taking longer and > whether the accommodations we are using are inadequate. For example, > as Ashley said, maybe her testing website isn't fully accessible and > so a reader would be more efficient. On the other hand, for some of us > taking extra time may be a sign that we just don't understand the > material very well and could benefit from some tutoring or some more > practice with Braille or computers. I think it's fair to suggest that > our goal should be to do things without any extra time whenever > possible, but still allow ourselves to use it occasionally if we > really need it and can't find a way to remedy the situation. Does that > make sense? > Arielle > > On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kirt, >> I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue extended >> time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it takes >> slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't >> need >> >> to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer. >> But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other >> two; >> that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion. >> No, I do not always use all extended time; it may depend on the class. >> But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed. >> For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business final >> or >> >> my >> intro to computer concepts final. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Ashley, >> I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where >> you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, >> because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's >> no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two >> answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right >> from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what >> the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of >> course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate >> answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about >> a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms >> about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, >> that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice >> test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read >> things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take >> extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure >> what the answer is? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: >>> Ashley, >>> I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before. >>> And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five >>> or >>> 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the >>> quiz, >>> but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or >>> whatever, >>> it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. >>> The >>> ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible >>> within >>> the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 >>> different statements, and you have to match each statement with the >>> person >>> who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up >>> for >>> me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each >>> question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, >>> listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to >>> really >>> confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of >>> time. >>> But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years >>> of >>> practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Kirt, >>>> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >>>> radio buttons. >>>> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>> there >>>> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my >>>> choice. >>>> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>> me >>>> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to >>>> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >>>> answer. >>>> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read >>>> the >>>> answer but its not like that. >>>> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>> quiz >>>> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >>>> level >>>> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 >>>> for >>>> heading 3. >>>> >>>> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >>>> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >>>> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>> >>>> >>>> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and >>>> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>> granted >>>> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >>>> class quizzes though. >>>> >>>> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be >>>> the >>>> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >>>> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the >>>> first >>>> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at >>>> least >>>> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >>>> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been >>>> really >>>> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I >>>> am >>>> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that >>>> warrant >>>> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described >>>> by >>>> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >>>> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. >>>> In >>>> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>> many >>>> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with >>>> braille, >>>> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most >>>> people don't have. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Arielle, >>>>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send >>>>> a >>>>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>>>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or >>>>> TVI >>>>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >>>>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable >>>>> time >>>>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>> sort >>>>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>> >>>>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given >>>>> on >>>>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and >>>>> not others. >>>>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>> across >>>>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>>>> >>>>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>>>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe >>>>> math >>>>> if you beg for it. >>>>> >>>>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any >>>>> test >>>>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to >>>>> pic >>>>> the best answer. >>>>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line >>>>> by >>>>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >>>>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>> ensure >>>>> they circled the right one. >>>>> >>>>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >>>>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>>>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >>>>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>>>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading >>>>> to >>>>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>>>> >>>>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>> formats >>>>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in >>>>> the >>>>> many cases I do need it. >>>>> >>>>> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed >>>>> for >>>>> me to get extended time. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>>>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>>>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >>>>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >>>>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>>>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >>>>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >>>>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>>>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >>>>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>>>> for Braille or large print tests. >>>>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >>>>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>>>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>>>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>>>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>>>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>>>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>>>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>>>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>>>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>>>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>>>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>>>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>>>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>>>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>>>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>>>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>>>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >>>>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>>>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>>>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>>>> and employment myself. >>>>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>>>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>>>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>>>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >>>>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>>>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>>>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >>>>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>>>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>>>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>>>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>>>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>>>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >>>>> sightedd colleagues. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 02:26:25 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:26:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class Message-ID: <51131109.0795ec0a.0e22.6783@mx.google.com> If you don't mind me asking, Josh, what's your major? What majors require such a class? And what kind of material is covered in this class? ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hello, I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual descriptions of those flowcharts. Greg Wocher On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: Hi All, I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? Thanks, Cody _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%4 0gtwebdesign.us _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 02:31:53 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 20:31:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: New note taking app from AFB Message-ID: <51131251.110e650a.3beb.79cc@mx.google.com> While=20AccessNote=20sounds=20like=20a=20really=20great=20app,=20doesn't=20= it=20do=20 the=20same=20thing=20as=20Pages? =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Kaiti=20Shelton=20 Hi all, This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability services and the braille material they have been producing for my math homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the start of the class. I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the only student who receives braille material so I don't see how proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to worry if I can even do my homework for them. If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate hearing them. -- Kaiti From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 02:56:15 2013 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:56:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kaiti, first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the statusquo is not acceptable. Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. Thanks. On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for > my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability > services and the braille material they have been producing for my math > homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the > professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and > help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do > it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive > technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger > and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can > just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it > is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. > The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. > Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will > mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or > other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. > Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not > able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. > This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free > beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to > pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then > hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the > start of the class. > > I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of > course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I > don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the > braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because > she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read > several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I > wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And > although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the > only student who receives braille material so I don't see how > proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't > feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to > worry if I can even do my homework for them. > > If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate > hearing them. > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 03:14:10 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:14:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several times. Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. Arielle On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > Kaiti, > > first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if > it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than > they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they > hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that > you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if > Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared > for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT > specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University > either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how > to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the > statusquo is not acceptable. > > Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how > they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a > tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I > can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. > > Thanks. > > On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >> services and the braille material they have been producing for my math >> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do >> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >> start of the class. >> >> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I >> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I >> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the >> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >> >> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate >> hearing them. >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 03:26:21 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:26:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Kaiti, I can't decide if you're incredibly intelligent, or incredibly insane for taking on 22 credits in one semester. Maybe a little bit of both, but I'll happily concede that there are some cases, like yours, where finishing an in-class quiz, all at once, where extra time is genuinely needed to compensate for acommodation, just might not be practical. I was thinking more about midterms and finals when I made my point about some professors insisting you take it all in one go; I can see how even some hard-line professors could be a bit more flexible with in-class quizzes that take longer, especially with the class load you're taking...I'm, quite frankly, in awe that you have time to contribute so much to the list, or...well, do anythingg except study. Pardon my french, but how the hell do you manage it? Best, Kirt On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi all, > > Kirt, I understand what you're saying, but that is hard to do when > you're carrying 22 credits and have other classes to attend right > after the other. I'm still required to finish my tests the same day > that they were originally given, but like today for example I had a > test in one class and because I had to flip back and forth between my > microsoft word document and the music excerpt I was writing in > Goodfeel it took me extra time. Coincidentally, I had another class > with another test right after that one, so my teacher took back the > flashdrive and we made an office appointment for a few hours later > after my other three classes and other 2 tests of the day were done. > As I was in other classes and focused on the material and my professor > had the flashdrive with the exam files, there really wasn't a way I > could have studied. My professors do safeguard against cheating, > which I don't do anyway, but they're also understanding that I'm > carrying a heavy courseload and have other time demands placed on me. > However, on your point about using process of elimination in test > situations I wholeheartedly agree that it just makes sense; I can't > remember not doing it even when I was a kid just because it saves so > much time. > > Arielle: Thanks for starting the topic. It's really interesting to > think about and hear other people's takes on the issue. > > On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> Thanks for entertaining my questions about extended time. I do think >> Julie makes a good point that it's hard to go on a case-by-case basis >> when setting a policy about extended time for testing. I do also agree >> that sometimes the accommodations we use are inadequate for allowing >> us to take a test in the time allotted for sighted students. I guess I >> was thinking more in a K-12 ed situation, in which case education >> decisions should be case-by-case as in IEP's. >> I remember in elementary school, having to take standardized tests and >> being given double time to complete my Brailled test. I was literally >> required to sit until the double time was up if I finished in the same >> time as the sighted classmates. I also remember my TVI bragging about >> how fast I was because I finished question sets without going into >> double time. The fact is that should not have been something worthy of >> bragging. It just meant I knew the material and was taught Braille at >> an appropriate age. It is sad when the expectation of blind students >> is to be slower and a blind student performing at average or >> above-average speed is shocking. But that's a whole other topic for >> another day. >> I don't think we should advocate to not get extended time in college >> because, again, there are legitimate situations when the technology or >> reader takes longer for some reason. I would however suggest that if >> we as individuals choose to use the extra time or find ourselves >> needing it a lot, we might want to examine what is taking longer and >> whether the accommodations we are using are inadequate. For example, >> as Ashley said, maybe her testing website isn't fully accessible and >> so a reader would be more efficient. On the other hand, for some of us >> taking extra time may be a sign that we just don't understand the >> material very well and could benefit from some tutoring or some more >> practice with Braille or computers. I think it's fair to suggest that >> our goal should be to do things without any extra time whenever >> possible, but still allow ourselves to use it occasionally if we >> really need it and can't find a way to remedy the situation. Does that >> make sense? >> Arielle >> >> On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue extended >>> time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it takes >>> slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't >>> need >>> >>> to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer. >>> But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other >>> two; >>> that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion. >>> No, I do not always use all extended time; it may depend on the class. >>> But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed. >>> For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business final >>> or >>> >>> my >>> intro to computer concepts final. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Ashley, >>> I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where >>> you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, >>> because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's >>> no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two >>> answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right >>> from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what >>> the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of >>> course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate >>> answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about >>> a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms >>> about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, >>> that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice >>> test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read >>> things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take >>> extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure >>> what the answer is? >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: >>>> Ashley, >>>> I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about >>>> before. >>>> And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five >>>> or >>>> 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the >>>> quiz, >>>> but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or >>>> whatever, >>>> it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. >>>> The >>>> ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible >>>> within >>>> the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 >>>> different statements, and you have to match each statement with the >>>> person >>>> who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set >>>> up >>>> for >>>> me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each >>>> question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, >>>> listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to >>>> really >>>> confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of >>>> time. >>>> But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years >>>> of >>>> practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >>>>> radio buttons. >>>>> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>> there >>>>> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my >>>>> choice. >>>>> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>> me >>>>> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard >>>>> to >>>>> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >>>>> answer. >>>>> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read >>>>> the >>>>> answer but its not like that. >>>>> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>> quiz >>>>> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >>>>> level >>>>> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 >>>>> for >>>>> heading 3. >>>>> >>>>> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >>>>> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >>>>> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it >>>>> and >>>>> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>> granted >>>>> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >>>>> class quizzes though. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be >>>>> the >>>>> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from >>>>> the >>>>> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the >>>>> first >>>>> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at >>>>> least >>>>> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >>>>> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been >>>>> really >>>>> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I >>>>> am >>>>> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that >>>>> warrant >>>>> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described >>>>> by >>>>> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >>>>> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted >>>>> time. >>>>> In >>>>> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>> many >>>>> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with >>>>> braille, >>>>> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, >>>>> most >>>>> people don't have. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Arielle, >>>>>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send >>>>>> a >>>>>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>>>>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or >>>>>> TVI >>>>>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>>> I >>>>>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable >>>>>> time >>>>>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>>> sort >>>>>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given >>>>>> on >>>>>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>>> and >>>>>> not others. >>>>>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>>> across >>>>>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>>>>> >>>>>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>>>>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe >>>>>> math >>>>>> if you beg for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any >>>>>> test >>>>>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to >>>>>> pic >>>>>> the best answer. >>>>>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line >>>>>> by >>>>>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right >>>>>> answer. >>>>>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>>> ensure >>>>>> they circled the right one. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because >>>>>> I >>>>>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>>>>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >>>>>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >>>>>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading >>>>>> to >>>>>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>>>>> >>>>>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>>> formats >>>>>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in >>>>>> the >>>>>> many cases I do need it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed >>>>>> for >>>>>> me to get extended time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >>>>>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>>>>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct >>>>>> for >>>>>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make >>>>>> test-taking >>>>>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >>>>>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader >>>>>> and >>>>>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. >>>>>> Extra >>>>>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>>>>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question >>>>>> whether >>>>>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>>>>> for Braille or large print tests. >>>>>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and >>>>>> I >>>>>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>>>>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>>>>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >>>>>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >>>>>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >>>>>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>>>>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>>>>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >>>>>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >>>>>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>>>>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>>>>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>>>>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>>>>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >>>>>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >>>>>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>>>>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that >>>>>> nothing >>>>>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>>>>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>>>>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>>>>> and employment myself. >>>>>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>>>>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >>>>>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>>>>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only >>>>>> when >>>>>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>>>>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >>>>>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are >>>>>> skill >>>>>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>>>>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>>>>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>>>>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>>>>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>>>>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently >>>>>> as >>>>>> sightedd colleagues. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 03:55:52 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 22:55:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi,, Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most recent course outline it has either this class or another psych oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to graduate with the major and minor I want. Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files or emails with the information since they write everything up on the computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of his control. Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a few minutes of proofreading. On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kaiti, > Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality > better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? > I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, > and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about > this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the > option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to > send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more > advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several > times. > Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. > Arielle > > On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >> Kaiti, >> >> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if >> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that >> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared >> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how >> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the >> statusquo is not acceptable. >> >> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I >> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my math >>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do >>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >>> start of the class. >>> >>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I >>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I >>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the >>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>> >>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate >>> hearing them. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cordially, >> >> Nimer Jaber >> >> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >> some information about the email you have just read and all >> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >> >> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >> up to you. Thanks. >> >> Registered Linux User 529141. >> http://counter.li.org/ >> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >> please click here: >> http://www.vinuxproject.org >> >> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >> and above, please click here: >> http://www.nvda-project.org >> >> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >> >> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >> >> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >> you, and have a great day! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 04:12:11 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 23:12:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <42BC4C32-D53C-4630-A872-5E6DD4C58ABB@gmail.com> <21B570D3C25A49E4BC2B6E85F873AD9A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Kirt, actually, 18 credits or more is very common for Engineering and Music majors at my school. I actually have 19 academic credits and 3 worth of ensembles. I agree on the midterm though; I usually schedule all my midterm and final exams in advance and most of them in the testing center so that the professor has that added piece of mind that I'm taking the midterm/final seriously enough to schedule it and plan time for it instead of do it in their class and hope I have it done. On 2/6/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Kaiti, > I can't decide if you're incredibly intelligent, or incredibly > insane for taking on 22 credits in one semester. Maybe a little bit > of both, but I'll happily concede that there are some cases, like > yours, where finishing an in-class quiz, all at once, where extra time > is genuinely needed to compensate for acommodation, just might not be > practical. I was thinking more about midterms and finals when I made > my point about some professors insisting you take it all in one go; I > can see how even some hard-line professors could be a bit more > flexible with in-class quizzes that take longer, especially with the > class load you're taking...I'm, quite frankly, in awe that you have > time to contribute so much to the list, or...well, do anythingg except > study. Pardon my french, but how the hell do you manage it? > Best, > Kirt > > On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Kirt, I understand what you're saying, but that is hard to do when >> you're carrying 22 credits and have other classes to attend right >> after the other. I'm still required to finish my tests the same day >> that they were originally given, but like today for example I had a >> test in one class and because I had to flip back and forth between my >> microsoft word document and the music excerpt I was writing in >> Goodfeel it took me extra time. Coincidentally, I had another class >> with another test right after that one, so my teacher took back the >> flashdrive and we made an office appointment for a few hours later >> after my other three classes and other 2 tests of the day were done. >> As I was in other classes and focused on the material and my professor >> had the flashdrive with the exam files, there really wasn't a way I >> could have studied. My professors do safeguard against cheating, >> which I don't do anyway, but they're also understanding that I'm >> carrying a heavy courseload and have other time demands placed on me. >> However, on your point about using process of elimination in test >> situations I wholeheartedly agree that it just makes sense; I can't >> remember not doing it even when I was a kid just because it saves so >> much time. >> >> Arielle: Thanks for starting the topic. It's really interesting to >> think about and hear other people's takes on the issue. >> >> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Thanks for entertaining my questions about extended time. I do think >>> Julie makes a good point that it's hard to go on a case-by-case basis >>> when setting a policy about extended time for testing. I do also agree >>> that sometimes the accommodations we use are inadequate for allowing >>> us to take a test in the time allotted for sighted students. I guess I >>> was thinking more in a K-12 ed situation, in which case education >>> decisions should be case-by-case as in IEP's. >>> I remember in elementary school, having to take standardized tests and >>> being given double time to complete my Brailled test. I was literally >>> required to sit until the double time was up if I finished in the same >>> time as the sighted classmates. I also remember my TVI bragging about >>> how fast I was because I finished question sets without going into >>> double time. The fact is that should not have been something worthy of >>> bragging. It just meant I knew the material and was taught Braille at >>> an appropriate age. It is sad when the expectation of blind students >>> is to be slower and a blind student performing at average or >>> above-average speed is shocking. But that's a whole other topic for >>> another day. >>> I don't think we should advocate to not get extended time in college >>> because, again, there are legitimate situations when the technology or >>> reader takes longer for some reason. I would however suggest that if >>> we as individuals choose to use the extra time or find ourselves >>> needing it a lot, we might want to examine what is taking longer and >>> whether the accommodations we are using are inadequate. For example, >>> as Ashley said, maybe her testing website isn't fully accessible and >>> so a reader would be more efficient. On the other hand, for some of us >>> taking extra time may be a sign that we just don't understand the >>> material very well and could benefit from some tutoring or some more >>> practice with Braille or computers. I think it's fair to suggest that >>> our goal should be to do things without any extra time whenever >>> possible, but still allow ourselves to use it occasionally if we >>> really need it and can't find a way to remedy the situation. Does that >>> make sense? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue >>>> extended >>>> time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it >>>> takes >>>> slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't >>>> need >>>> >>>> to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer. >>>> But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other >>>> two; >>>> that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion. >>>> No, I do not always use all extended time; it may depend on the class. >>>> But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed. >>>> For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business >>>> final >>>> or >>>> >>>> my >>>> intro to computer concepts final. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where >>>> you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described, >>>> because I sure as hell don't. For me, if I know the answer, there's >>>> no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two >>>> answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right >>>> from the two remaining choices. If I'm reasonably sure I know what >>>> the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything. Of >>>> course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate >>>> answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about >>>> a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms >>>> about asking a reader to repeat it for me. But, more often than not, >>>> that doesn't happen. I just did a hundred question multiple-choice >>>> test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read >>>> things on maybe 15 of the questions. I'm just curious why you'd take >>>> extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure >>>> what the answer is? >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/6/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about >>>>> before. >>>>> And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like >>>>> five >>>>> or >>>>> 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the >>>>> quiz, >>>>> but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or >>>>> whatever, >>>>> it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. >>>>> The >>>>> ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible >>>>> within >>>>> the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20 >>>>> different statements, and you have to match each statement with the >>>>> person >>>>> who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set >>>>> up >>>>> for >>>>> me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each >>>>> question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said, >>>>> listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to >>>>> really >>>>> confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of >>>>> time. >>>>> But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ >>>>> years >>>>> of >>>>> practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >>>>>> radio buttons. >>>>>> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>>> there >>>>>> are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>>> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my >>>>>> choice. >>>>>> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>>> me >>>>>> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard >>>>>> to >>>>>> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with >>>>>> each >>>>>> answer. >>>>>> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read >>>>>> the >>>>>> answer but its not like that. >>>>>> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>>> quiz >>>>>> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >>>>>> level >>>>>> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> for >>>>>> heading 3. >>>>>> >>>>>> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >>>>>> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line >>>>>> by >>>>>> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it >>>>>> and >>>>>> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>>> granted >>>>>> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in >>>>>> class quizzes though. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>>>> be >>>>>> the >>>>>> case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from >>>>>> the >>>>>> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the >>>>>> first >>>>>> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at >>>>>> least >>>>>> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with >>>>>> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been >>>>>> really >>>>>> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I >>>>>> am >>>>>> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that >>>>>> warrant >>>>>> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described >>>>>> by >>>>>> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, >>>>>> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted >>>>>> time. >>>>>> In >>>>>> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>>> many >>>>>> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with >>>>>> braille, >>>>>> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, >>>>>> most >>>>>> people don't have. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Arielle, >>>>>>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>>>> send >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>>>> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >>>>>>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or >>>>>>> TVI >>>>>>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>>>> sort >>>>>>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>>>> given >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> not others. >>>>>>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>>>> across >>>>>>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >>>>>>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>>>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>>>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe >>>>>>> math >>>>>>> if you beg for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>>>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any >>>>>>> test >>>>>>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to >>>>>>> pic >>>>>>> the best answer. >>>>>>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right >>>>>>> answer. >>>>>>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>>>> ensure >>>>>>> they circled the right one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>>>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >>>>>>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>>>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>>>> quiz >>>>>>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>>>>> heading >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>>>> formats >>>>>>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> many cases I do need it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>>>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me to get extended time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >>>>>>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make >>>>>>> test-taking >>>>>>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. >>>>>>> Extra >>>>>>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >>>>>>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question >>>>>>> whether >>>>>>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >>>>>>> for Braille or large print tests. >>>>>>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >>>>>>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >>>>>>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been >>>>>>> bad >>>>>>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would >>>>>>> use >>>>>>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >>>>>>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >>>>>>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been >>>>>>> granted >>>>>>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >>>>>>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >>>>>>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >>>>>>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading >>>>>>> speeds >>>>>>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>>>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >>>>>>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >>>>>>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that >>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >>>>>>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >>>>>>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >>>>>>> and employment myself. >>>>>>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >>>>>>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>>>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >>>>>>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >>>>>>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of >>>>>>> why >>>>>>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are >>>>>>> skill >>>>>>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >>>>>>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >>>>>>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >>>>>>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >>>>>>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >>>>>>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> sightedd colleagues. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 04:15:01 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 21:15:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That sounds like a good plan. Also, I suspect you can do the homework electronically without having to worry about getting the Braille. This may end up being less time-consuming for you and keep you from being dependent on the DS office to get things done in a timely fashion. As you advance in stats, the tactile diagrams will become less important. I never got a single one in five semesters of stats. Again, write offlist if you have specific content questions. Arielle On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi,, > > Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych > minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. > It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most > recent course outline it has either this class or another psych > oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as > the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to > graduate with the major and minor I want. > > Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All > my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files > or emails with the information since they write everything up on the > computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about > making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and > beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds > office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for > everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files > complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also > allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel > formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to > like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing > all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are > concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his > expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I > really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, > it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of > his control. > > Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked > up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. > I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're > repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading > wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes > right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say > something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and > people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had > to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to > not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to > pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled > files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday > and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can > get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to > improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't > have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser > paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an > extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was > understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days > that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for > extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a > few minutes of proofreading. > > On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kaiti, >> Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality >> better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? >> I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, >> and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about >> this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the >> option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to >> send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more >> advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several >> times. >> Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>> Kaiti, >>> >>> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if >>> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >>> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >>> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that >>> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >>> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared >>> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >>> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >>> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how >>> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the >>> statusquo is not acceptable. >>> >>> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >>> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >>> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I >>> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >>>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my math >>>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do >>>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >>>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >>>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >>>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >>>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >>>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >>>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >>>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >>>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >>>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >>>> start of the class. >>>> >>>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I >>>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >>>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >>>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I >>>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the >>>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>>> >>>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate >>>> hearing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cordially, >>> >>> Nimer Jaber >>> >>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>> >>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >>> up to you. Thanks. >>> >>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>> http://counter.li.org/ >>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >>> please click here: >>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>> >>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>> and above, please click here: >>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>> >>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >>> >>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>> >>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>> you, and have a great day! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 7 08:15:45 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:15:45 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <51131109.0795ec0a.0e22.6783@mx.google.com> References: <51131109.0795ec0a.0e22.6783@mx.google.com> Message-ID: As for materials, I don't know. My major is Behavioral Health. I'm not sure what all major need it, but I also don't understand why Behavioral Health stuents need it! It's a waste of time, IMO! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist [sweetpeareader at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CIS Class If you don't mind me asking, Josh, what's your major? What majors require such a class? And what kind of material is covered in this class? ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hello, I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual descriptions of those flowcharts. Greg Wocher On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: Hi All, I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects of flow charts? Thanks, Cody _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%4 0gtwebdesign.us _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Feb 7 18:45:29 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:45:29 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] CIS Class In-Reply-To: <51131109.0795ec0a.0e22.6783@mx.google.com> References: <51131109.0795ec0a.0e22.6783@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130207104045.01efac48@comcast.net> Hi, Josh and other interesteds, I too am supposed to take that class, as it is a requirement for my major which is social work. I've been putting it off, though, mostly because I'd rather learn new stuff. What is your experience if you have, or ar currently taking it? Car :26 PM 2/6/2013, Sophie Trist wrote: >If you don't mind me asking, Josh, what's your major? What majors >require such a class? And what kind of material is covered in this class? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:57:49 +0000 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CIS Class > >Hi Sophie. >I have to have this class, in the Fall. >It's Computer Information Systems. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist >[sweetpeareader at gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:55 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] CIS Class > >What is CIS class? > >Sophie Trist >Sent from my iPhone > >On Feb 6, 2013, at 5:59 AM, Greg Wocher wrote: > >Hello, >I was lucky in my CIS classes I have taken. They did not make me >use visio. As long as I was able to textually explain the >flowcharts I was good. I was also able to get textual descriptions >of the flowcharts which was good. I would look into getting textual >descriptions of those flowcharts. > >Greg Wocher >On 2/6/2013 12:10 AM, Cody Bair wrote: >Hi All, >I am taking a CIS Class this semester wich recquires creating flow >charts with Microsoft Visio which seems to be inaccessible with >JAWS. I was curious to know if any of you have had to work around >this problem and how you are able to understand the visual aspects >of flow charts? >Thanks, >Cody > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%4 >0gtwebdesign.us > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 19:49:44 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 14:49:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Arielle: So to make sure I'm getting what you're saying is that I basically don't need a diagram at all? I've found out this semester that my braille instructors in school were increddibly old-fashioned in their teaching methods even through my hig school years, but how else would I take in graph information from the textbook? I'm really curious. I went to the office this morning and talked to my advisor. I told her that there has to be another way we can do this because it's really difficult for me to keep having to run back and forth across campus to get homeowrk assignments. A lot of the problem is that I guess the professor doesn't post the homework online until an hour or two before the classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so with that there is no way that even in the best circumstances I would have everything on time to do the homework at the same time as everyone else. I'm going to talk to my professor today about possibly posting assignments on Mondays and Wednesdays instead so that I can stop by the office on Tuesday and Thursday mornings and actually pick up the completed work instead of go there to find it not ready or to have it hastily done and incorrect. I feel kind of bad asking him for more but that seems to be the biggest obstacle, not having enough time for material turn around. In addition, we're also going to decrease the amount of brailling the office does. I have the text in my book so they're going to have one of their hired students look through the assigned problems once they're posted and make sure that the descriptors for the graphs were added in because in the book sometimes editor's notes are there and sometimes they're not. If they're there I don't need graphs at all, so for the questions where graph descriptors are missing the student will add them in. I'm also going to get a lot more of my graphs in very large print. I was used to having tactile and visual graphs in high school because my aid/braillist spoiled me to death with her graph-making abilities, but this will also help the process move faster and eliminate the problems I was having with the tactile graphs being too small and the Tiger not really distinguishing parts of the graph apart from each other. Hopefully these things will work. On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > That sounds like a good plan. Also, I suspect you can do the homework > electronically without having to worry about getting the Braille. This > may end up being less time-consuming for you and keep you from being > dependent on the DS office to get things done in a timely fashion. As > you advance in stats, the tactile diagrams will become less important. > I never got a single one in five semesters of stats. Again, write > offlist if you have specific content questions. > Arielle > > On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi,, >> >> Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych >> minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. >> It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most >> recent course outline it has either this class or another psych >> oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as >> the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to >> graduate with the major and minor I want. >> >> Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All >> my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files >> or emails with the information since they write everything up on the >> computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about >> making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and >> beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds >> office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for >> everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files >> complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also >> allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel >> formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to >> like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing >> all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are >> concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his >> expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I >> really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, >> it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of >> his control. >> >> Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked >> up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. >> I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're >> repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading >> wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes >> right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say >> something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and >> people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had >> to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to >> not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to >> pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled >> files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday >> and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can >> get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to >> improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't >> have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser >> paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an >> extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was >> understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days >> that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for >> extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a >> few minutes of proofreading. >> >> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Kaiti, >>> Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality >>> better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? >>> I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, >>> and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about >>> this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the >>> option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to >>> send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more >>> advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several >>> times. >>> Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>>> Kaiti, >>>> >>>> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if >>>> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >>>> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >>>> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that >>>> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >>>> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared >>>> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >>>> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >>>> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how >>>> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the >>>> statusquo is not acceptable. >>>> >>>> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >>>> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >>>> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I >>>> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >>>>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>>>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my math >>>>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>>>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>>>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to do >>>>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>>>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >>>>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>>>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >>>>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>>>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >>>>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>>>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >>>>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >>>>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >>>>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >>>>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >>>>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >>>>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>>>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >>>>> start of the class. >>>>> >>>>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>>>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time I >>>>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>>>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >>>>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >>>>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so I >>>>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>>>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm the >>>>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>>>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>>>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>>>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>>>> >>>>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would appreciate >>>>> hearing them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cordially, >>>> >>>> Nimer Jaber >>>> >>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >>>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>>> >>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >>>> up to you. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>>> http://counter.li.org/ >>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >>>> please click here: >>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>>> >>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>>> and above, please click here: >>>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>>> >>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >>>> >>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>>> you, and have a great day! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 19:56:47 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 12:56:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaiti, If you want to send me one of your homework assignments offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com I can take a look at it and let you know if I can complete the assignment without a graph. If they're asking you to pull specific information out of the graph then you might need a tactile version of it, but if they're just providing the graph as a guide, you might not need it. If the professor can type up verbal descriptions of the graphs that's even better. If you're taking psych stats then you will soon be transitioning to problem sets where you get a data set and have to perform mathematical operations on it. No graphs should be necessary for these types of problems. Arielle On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > Arielle: So to make sure I'm getting what you're saying is that I > basically don't need a diagram at all? I've found out this semester > that my braille instructors in school were increddibly old-fashioned > in their teaching methods even through my hig school years, but how > else would I take in graph information from the textbook? I'm really > curious. > > I went to the office this morning and talked to my advisor. I told > her that there has to be another way we can do this because it's > really difficult for me to keep having to run back and forth across > campus to get homeowrk assignments. A lot of the problem is that I > guess the professor doesn't post the homework online until an hour or > two before the classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so with that there > is no way that even in the best circumstances I would have everything > on time to do the homework at the same time as everyone else. I'm > going to talk to my professor today about possibly posting assignments > on Mondays and Wednesdays instead so that I can stop by the office on > Tuesday and Thursday mornings and actually pick up the completed work > instead of go there to find it not ready or to have it hastily done > and incorrect. I feel kind of bad asking him for more but that seems > to be the biggest obstacle, not having enough time for material turn > around. In addition, we're also going to decrease the amount of > brailling the office does. I have the text in my book so they're > going to have one of their hired students look through the assigned > problems once they're posted and make sure that the descriptors for > the graphs were added in because in the book sometimes editor's notes > are there and sometimes they're not. If they're there I don't need > graphs at all, so for the questions where graph descriptors are > missing the student will add them in. I'm also going to get a lot > more of my graphs in very large print. I was used to having tactile > and visual graphs in high school because my aid/braillist spoiled me > to death with her graph-making abilities, but this will also help the > process move faster and eliminate the problems I was having with the > tactile graphs being too small and the Tiger not really distinguishing > parts of the graph apart from each other. Hopefully these things will > work. > > On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> That sounds like a good plan. Also, I suspect you can do the homework >> electronically without having to worry about getting the Braille. This >> may end up being less time-consuming for you and keep you from being >> dependent on the DS office to get things done in a timely fashion. As >> you advance in stats, the tactile diagrams will become less important. >> I never got a single one in five semesters of stats. Again, write >> offlist if you have specific content questions. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi,, >>> >>> Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych >>> minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. >>> It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most >>> recent course outline it has either this class or another psych >>> oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as >>> the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to >>> graduate with the major and minor I want. >>> >>> Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All >>> my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files >>> or emails with the information since they write everything up on the >>> computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about >>> making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and >>> beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds >>> office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for >>> everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files >>> complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also >>> allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel >>> formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to >>> like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing >>> all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are >>> concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his >>> expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I >>> really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, >>> it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of >>> his control. >>> >>> Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked >>> up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. >>> I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're >>> repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading >>> wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes >>> right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say >>> something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and >>> people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had >>> to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to >>> not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to >>> pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled >>> files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday >>> and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can >>> get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to >>> improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't >>> have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser >>> paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an >>> extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was >>> understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days >>> that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for >>> extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a >>> few minutes of proofreading. >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Kaiti, >>>> Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality >>>> better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? >>>> I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, >>>> and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about >>>> this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the >>>> option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to >>>> send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more >>>> advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several >>>> times. >>>> Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>>>> Kaiti, >>>>> >>>>> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if >>>>> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >>>>> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >>>>> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that >>>>> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >>>>> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared >>>>> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >>>>> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >>>>> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how >>>>> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the >>>>> statusquo is not acceptable. >>>>> >>>>> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >>>>> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >>>>> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I >>>>> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >>>>>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>>>>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my >>>>>> math >>>>>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>>>>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>>>>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to >>>>>> do >>>>>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>>>>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >>>>>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>>>>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >>>>>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>>>>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >>>>>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>>>>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >>>>>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >>>>>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >>>>>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >>>>>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >>>>>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >>>>>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>>>>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >>>>>> start of the class. >>>>>> >>>>>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>>>>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>>>>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >>>>>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >>>>>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so >>>>>> I >>>>>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>>>>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm >>>>>> the >>>>>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>>>>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>>>>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>>>>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>>>>> >>>>>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would >>>>>> appreciate >>>>>> hearing them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kaiti >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cordially, >>>>> >>>>> Nimer Jaber >>>>> >>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>>>> >>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >>>>> up to you. Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>>>> http://counter.li.org/ >>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >>>>> please click here: >>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>>>> >>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>>>> and above, please click here: >>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>>>> >>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >>>>> >>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>>>> you, and have a great day! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 20:31:12 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 15:31:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suspect a large part of the reason you are getting dirty braille for math is that none of the braille transcription software packages really handle math well on their own. There is a reason that braillists work to get certifications. It takes specific knowledge to make sure braille is produced correctly. The DSS office at the last school attended assumed that because they knew how to import a file into duxbury and hit the translate button, that was enough to produce quality braille. For most situations this worked, but not for my textbook on teaching braille. :) For something technical like math, an expert should truly be hired. Although, there are other viable solutions for getting access to the materials. As Arielle said, much can be done without diagrams using electronic texts and excel. If you do need access to graphical materials, there are low tech solutions that require very little training, such as a screen board or the draftsman from APH. I got through a graduate level course that focused on visual data analysis by working with the professor and TAs with a screen board. The professor would generally have 60+ graphs per lecture. The TAs would sketch each graph before the lecture and hand me the stack at the beginning of class so that I could review them as they were presented. This took some exploration of what did and didn't work in sketching the graphs but it quickly became and efficient system. It very much added to my understanding of the course material and my ability to participate in class. Participating in class helped me engage the material more than I would have done otherwise. If you can find a quick solution like this, graphs can even be sketched in class if necessary. You would just need to find a willing artist. This shouldn't be too big of a problem as DSS offices hire notetakers all the time. This would be something similar to that. Btw, not sure if screen board is an official term, but that is what I have always called it. It is a large clipboard with window screen fastened to one side. When you put paper over the screen and draw with a crayon, it leaves a raised line of wax that can be easily felt. The graphs are crude sometimes. Details are difficult to convey. They work for many things though. I hope some of this was helpful. Best, Greg On Feb 7, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kaiti, > If you want to send me one of your homework assignments offlist at > arielle71 at gmail.com > I can take a look at it and let you know if I can complete the > assignment without a graph. If they're asking you to pull specific > information out of the graph then you might need a tactile version of > it, but if they're just providing the graph as a guide, you might not > need it. If the professor can type up verbal descriptions of the > graphs that's even better. > If you're taking psych stats then you will soon be transitioning to > problem sets where you get a data set and have to perform mathematical > operations on it. No graphs should be necessary for these types of > problems. > Arielle > > On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Arielle: So to make sure I'm getting what you're saying is that I >> basically don't need a diagram at all? I've found out this semester >> that my braille instructors in school were increddibly old-fashioned >> in their teaching methods even through my hig school years, but how >> else would I take in graph information from the textbook? I'm really >> curious. >> >> I went to the office this morning and talked to my advisor. I told >> her that there has to be another way we can do this because it's >> really difficult for me to keep having to run back and forth across >> campus to get homeowrk assignments. A lot of the problem is that I >> guess the professor doesn't post the homework online until an hour or >> two before the classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so with that there >> is no way that even in the best circumstances I would have everything >> on time to do the homework at the same time as everyone else. I'm >> going to talk to my professor today about possibly posting assignments >> on Mondays and Wednesdays instead so that I can stop by the office on >> Tuesday and Thursday mornings and actually pick up the completed work >> instead of go there to find it not ready or to have it hastily done >> and incorrect. I feel kind of bad asking him for more but that seems >> to be the biggest obstacle, not having enough time for material turn >> around. In addition, we're also going to decrease the amount of >> brailling the office does. I have the text in my book so they're >> going to have one of their hired students look through the assigned >> problems once they're posted and make sure that the descriptors for >> the graphs were added in because in the book sometimes editor's notes >> are there and sometimes they're not. If they're there I don't need >> graphs at all, so for the questions where graph descriptors are >> missing the student will add them in. I'm also going to get a lot >> more of my graphs in very large print. I was used to having tactile >> and visual graphs in high school because my aid/braillist spoiled me >> to death with her graph-making abilities, but this will also help the >> process move faster and eliminate the problems I was having with the >> tactile graphs being too small and the Tiger not really distinguishing >> parts of the graph apart from each other. Hopefully these things will >> work. >> >> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> That sounds like a good plan. Also, I suspect you can do the homework >>> electronically without having to worry about getting the Braille. This >>> may end up being less time-consuming for you and keep you from being >>> dependent on the DS office to get things done in a timely fashion. As >>> you advance in stats, the tactile diagrams will become less important. >>> I never got a single one in five semesters of stats. Again, write >>> offlist if you have specific content questions. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Hi,, >>>> >>>> Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych >>>> minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. >>>> It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most >>>> recent course outline it has either this class or another psych >>>> oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as >>>> the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to >>>> graduate with the major and minor I want. >>>> >>>> Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All >>>> my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files >>>> or emails with the information since they write everything up on the >>>> computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about >>>> making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and >>>> beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds >>>> office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for >>>> everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files >>>> complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also >>>> allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel >>>> formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to >>>> like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing >>>> all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are >>>> concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his >>>> expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I >>>> really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, >>>> it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of >>>> his control. >>>> >>>> Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked >>>> up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. >>>> I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're >>>> repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading >>>> wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes >>>> right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say >>>> something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and >>>> people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had >>>> to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to >>>> not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to >>>> pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled >>>> files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday >>>> and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can >>>> get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to >>>> improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't >>>> have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser >>>> paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an >>>> extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was >>>> understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days >>>> that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for >>>> extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a >>>> few minutes of proofreading. >>>> >>>> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi Kaiti, >>>>> Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the quality >>>>> better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? >>>>> I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, >>>>> and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about >>>>> this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the >>>>> option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to >>>>> send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more >>>>> advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several >>>>> times. >>>>> Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>>>>> Kaiti, >>>>>> >>>>>> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, if >>>>>> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >>>>>> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >>>>>> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person that >>>>>> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >>>>>> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't prepared >>>>>> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >>>>>> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >>>>>> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows how >>>>>> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, the >>>>>> statusquo is not acceptable. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >>>>>> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >>>>>> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what I >>>>>> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary for >>>>>>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>>>>>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my >>>>>>> math >>>>>>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>>>>>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>>>>>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>>>>>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the Tiger >>>>>>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>>>>>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what it >>>>>>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>>>>>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't there. >>>>>>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>>>>>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, or >>>>>>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille packets. >>>>>>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically not >>>>>>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my classes. >>>>>>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning free >>>>>>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours to >>>>>>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>>>>>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before the >>>>>>> start of the class. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>>>>>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same time >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>>>>>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph because >>>>>>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to read >>>>>>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, so >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>>>>>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>>>>>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>>>>>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>>>>>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would >>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>> hearing them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kaiti >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Cordially, >>>>>> >>>>>> Nimer Jaber >>>>>> >>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >>>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>>>>> >>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >>>>>> up to you. Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>>>>> http://counter.li.org/ >>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >>>>>> please click here: >>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>>>>> and above, please click here: >>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>>>>> >>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>>>>> you, and have a great day! >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 21:03:21 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disability Services and Math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, All they're really doing is using microsoft word files for embossing. They're not running anything through special software; the text is just embossed as is and the graphs are raised by the Tiger. I think it's just been a matter of not checking things before passing them along to me. I have papers where it is obvious that the embosser just messed up, like brailled two lines pretty close together or on top of each other, but these mistakes were left unchecked. Or like when parts of the homework are missing altogether; that's just a lack of checking. Part of it is the time crunch, but I'm hoping that if I get my prof to post homework to Sakai sooner these issues will be solved. On 2/7/13, Greg Aikens wrote: > I suspect a large part of the reason you are getting dirty braille for math > is that none of the braille transcription software packages really handle > math well on their own. There is a reason that braillists work to get > certifications. It takes specific knowledge to make sure braille is > produced correctly. > > The DSS office at the last school attended assumed that because they knew > how to import a file into duxbury and hit the translate button, that was > enough to produce quality braille. For most situations this worked, but not > for my textbook on teaching braille. :) > > For something technical like math, an expert should truly be hired. > Although, there are other viable solutions for getting access to the > materials. > > As Arielle said, much can be done without diagrams using electronic texts > and excel. If you do need access to graphical materials, there are low tech > solutions that require very little training, such as a screen board or the > draftsman from APH. I got through a graduate level course that focused on > visual data analysis by working with the professor and TAs with a screen > board. The professor would generally have 60+ graphs per lecture. The TAs > would sketch each graph before the lecture and hand me the stack at the > beginning of class so that I could review them as they were presented. This > took some exploration of what did and didn't work in sketching the graphs > but it quickly became and efficient system. It very much added to my > understanding of the course material and my ability to participate in class. > Participating in class helped me engage the material more than I would have > done otherwise. > > If you can find a quick solution like this, graphs can even be sketched in > class if necessary. You would just need to find a willing artist. This > shouldn't be too big of a problem as DSS offices hire notetakers all the > time. This would be something similar to that. > > Btw, not sure if screen board is an official term, but that is what I have > always called it. It is a large clipboard with window screen fastened to > one side. When you put paper over the screen and draw with a crayon, it > leaves a raised line of wax that can be easily felt. The graphs are crude > sometimes. Details are difficult to convey. They work for many things > though. > > I hope some of this was helpful. > > Best, > Greg > On Feb 7, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Kaiti, >> If you want to send me one of your homework assignments offlist at >> arielle71 at gmail.com >> I can take a look at it and let you know if I can complete the >> assignment without a graph. If they're asking you to pull specific >> information out of the graph then you might need a tactile version of >> it, but if they're just providing the graph as a guide, you might not >> need it. If the professor can type up verbal descriptions of the >> graphs that's even better. >> If you're taking psych stats then you will soon be transitioning to >> problem sets where you get a data set and have to perform mathematical >> operations on it. No graphs should be necessary for these types of >> problems. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Arielle: So to make sure I'm getting what you're saying is that I >>> basically don't need a diagram at all? I've found out this semester >>> that my braille instructors in school were increddibly old-fashioned >>> in their teaching methods even through my hig school years, but how >>> else would I take in graph information from the textbook? I'm really >>> curious. >>> >>> I went to the office this morning and talked to my advisor. I told >>> her that there has to be another way we can do this because it's >>> really difficult for me to keep having to run back and forth across >>> campus to get homeowrk assignments. A lot of the problem is that I >>> guess the professor doesn't post the homework online until an hour or >>> two before the classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so with that there >>> is no way that even in the best circumstances I would have everything >>> on time to do the homework at the same time as everyone else. I'm >>> going to talk to my professor today about possibly posting assignments >>> on Mondays and Wednesdays instead so that I can stop by the office on >>> Tuesday and Thursday mornings and actually pick up the completed work >>> instead of go there to find it not ready or to have it hastily done >>> and incorrect. I feel kind of bad asking him for more but that seems >>> to be the biggest obstacle, not having enough time for material turn >>> around. In addition, we're also going to decrease the amount of >>> brailling the office does. I have the text in my book so they're >>> going to have one of their hired students look through the assigned >>> problems once they're posted and make sure that the descriptors for >>> the graphs were added in because in the book sometimes editor's notes >>> are there and sometimes they're not. If they're there I don't need >>> graphs at all, so for the questions where graph descriptors are >>> missing the student will add them in. I'm also going to get a lot >>> more of my graphs in very large print. I was used to having tactile >>> and visual graphs in high school because my aid/braillist spoiled me >>> to death with her graph-making abilities, but this will also help the >>> process move faster and eliminate the problems I was having with the >>> tactile graphs being too small and the Tiger not really distinguishing >>> parts of the graph apart from each other. Hopefully these things will >>> work. >>> >>> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> That sounds like a good plan. Also, I suspect you can do the homework >>>> electronically without having to worry about getting the Braille. This >>>> may end up being less time-consuming for you and keep you from being >>>> dependent on the DS office to get things done in a timely fashion. As >>>> you advance in stats, the tactile diagrams will become less important. >>>> I never got a single one in five semesters of stats. Again, write >>>> offlist if you have specific content questions. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Hi,, >>>>> >>>>> Stats is actually required because both for my major and for my psych >>>>> minor I will need to be able to read and interpret research data. >>>>> It's listed on some things as strongly encouraged but on our most >>>>> recent course outline it has either this class or another psych >>>>> oriented math class which is stats with slightly different content as >>>>> the recommended math electives. Either way I need one like it to >>>>> graduate with the major and minor I want. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle: I haven't really had to get much brailled in hard copy. All >>>>> my professors have been pretty great about just sending me word files >>>>> or emails with the information since they write everything up on the >>>>> computer anyway. My math professor is actually really good about >>>>> making most things accessible on his own too, and goes above and >>>>> beyond because he really could just say that accessibility is the ds >>>>> office's issue. For class he prints out guided note sheets for >>>>> everyone and gives me mine on flashdrives. These are word files >>>>> complete with tables and graph descriptions where needed. He also >>>>> allows me to submit my homework on these flashdrives in word and excel >>>>> formats and that has worked out pretty well. He and I both seem to >>>>> like how the electronic process has worked out and I think he's doing >>>>> all he can to make the class work for me. As far as graphs are >>>>> concerned though making tactile diagrams is understandably beyond his >>>>> expertees and he doesn't have the equipment to do it on his own. I >>>>> really do feel like he's been accomodating and understanding though, >>>>> it's just the diagrams which get a little funky but those are out of >>>>> his control. >>>>> >>>>> Last semester I barely had to set foot in the ds office once I picked >>>>> up my textbooks and now I'm down there several times a week. >>>>> I know it's not an IT specialist's job to proofread, but if we're >>>>> repeatedly having the same problems I don't see why proofreading >>>>> wouldn't come up as a easy fix as it would only take a few minutes >>>>> right after the embosser is done working. I was going to say >>>>> something about it on Tuesday, but by the time I got down there and >>>>> people were free for me to talk to I had an hour till I actually had >>>>> to be in stats and I had to quite literally run across to campus to >>>>> not be late. I'm planning on going down there tomorrow morning to >>>>> pick up the homework that was assigned Tuesday and the re-brailled >>>>> files for last Thursday's assignment. They already know that Tuesday >>>>> and Thursday mornings and Friday afternoons are the only times I can >>>>> get there with my schedule, so I'm going to see if they can work to >>>>> improve the timing or check the work before giving it to me so I don't >>>>> have to run back and forth and they don't have to waste embosser >>>>> paper. It's also not right that I had to ask a professor for an >>>>> extention because I really couldn't do the work. Again, he was >>>>> understanding enough to push back my due date the same number of days >>>>> that I didn't have my braille, but I feel like asking him for >>>>> extentions is really not right, especially if it could be helped by a >>>>> few minutes of proofreading. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/6/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi Kaiti, >>>>>> Does your DS office give you Braille for other classes? Is the >>>>>> quality >>>>>> better for those classes? If so, who's doing the Brailling? >>>>>> I totally agree that you should not have to proofread your homework, >>>>>> and you should definitely complain to someone higher up in DS about >>>>>> this. If the situation isn't resolved, you could also explore the >>>>>> option of doing the homework electronically and asking your prof to >>>>>> send you descriptions of graphs. Email me off-list if you want more >>>>>> advice about how to do stats electronically as I have done it several >>>>>> times. >>>>>> Oh, and if you're a psych major stats is required. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/6/13, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>>>>>> Kaiti, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> first, I don't think that stats is required for your major. Second, >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> it is, then the university needs to accommodate you much better than >>>>>>> they are, and they need to terminate the position of the idiot they >>>>>>> hired and hire another. I know the person or rather of the person >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> you're talking about because I was supposed to come and train her if >>>>>>> Clovernook would've done their job. Unfortunately she wasn't >>>>>>> prepared >>>>>>> for the position that she got, and even if she was it's not the IT >>>>>>> specialist's job to proofread math, so it seems like the University >>>>>>> either needs to get their act together and hire someone that knows >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> to do it, or they need to have it professionally done. Either way, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> statusquo is not acceptable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please let me know what happens, as I am very interested to see how >>>>>>> they and you choose to handle this. And if you need/want help from a >>>>>>> tech specialist, please don't hesitate to call me and I will do what >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can to help you. Just respond to my email if you want contact info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/6/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This semester I am enrolled in a 200 level stats course necessary >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> my major. Recently I've been having problems with my disability >>>>>>>> services and the braille material they have been producing for my >>>>>>>> math >>>>>>>> homework. The course only meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays so the >>>>>>>> professor has to move pretty fast through the material. To try and >>>>>>>> help me stay on top of the work as far as getting me the braille to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> it goes the office has a woman who they've hired as the assistive >>>>>>>> technology specialist brailling all my math materials with the >>>>>>>> Tiger >>>>>>>> and my professor has given her access to our Sakai sight so she can >>>>>>>> just go get the material and not have to wait for me to find what >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is, email it to her, and then have her check her email on a break. >>>>>>>> The ideas are great, but the quality of the braille just isn't >>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>> Sometimes graphs will be missing from questions, the embosser will >>>>>>>> mess up several lines of braille and make the question unreadable, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> other times entire questions will be missing from my braille >>>>>>>> packets. >>>>>>>> Contributing to the issue is that with my schedule I'm physically >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> able to get to the learning center two days a week due to my >>>>>>>> classes. >>>>>>>> This often means on the days I have stats and the entire morning >>>>>>>> free >>>>>>>> beforehand I often have to go to the ds office only several hours >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> pick up materials if they weren't readable the first time and then >>>>>>>> hurry to fix my old answers or do them in the first place before >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> start of the class. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I feel really frustrated that I have to proofread like this. Of >>>>>>>> course I don't expect everything to be perfect, but at the same >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't think I should have to go down to the ds office to tell the >>>>>>>> braillist she missed a problem or that I can't read the graph >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> she printed it so small that the lines are too close together to >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> several times a week. She is blind herself and a braille reader, >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> wonder why there is no proofreading involved in the process. And >>>>>>>> although I realize that she has other responsibilities, I know I'm >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> only student who receives braille material so I don't see how >>>>>>>> proofreading a few pages of braille would take much time. I don't >>>>>>>> feel like with all my classes I'm doing that I should also have to >>>>>>>> worry if I can even do my homework for them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this I would >>>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>> hearing them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kaiti >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Cordially, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nimer Jaber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it >>>>>>> contains >>>>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>>>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>>>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its >>>>>>> contents >>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> up to you. Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/ >>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating >>>>>>> system, >>>>>>> please click here: >>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>>>>>> and above, please click here: >>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology >>>>>>> news. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at >>>>>>> (720) >>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>>>>>> you, and have a great day! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Feb 7 21:36:01 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:36:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> Good morning, Ari, Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you wrote: >I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >Ari >Ari > >On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > Kirt, > > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for radio > > buttons. > > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there > > are four buttons for four choices per answer. > > I hear all of the choices and then go up line > by line to select my choice. I > > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me to > > the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to > > explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each > > answer. > > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the > > answer but its not like that. > > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz > > with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading level > > it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 for > > heading 3. > > > > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say > > question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by line > > through the questions. Maybe I should do that. > > > > > > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm > hoping to get used to it and find > > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if I > > feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class > > quizzes though. > > > > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kirt > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > > > Ashley, > > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be the > > case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the > > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first > > question It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at least > > for me, once I figured out how Jaws > Associates radio buttons with particular > > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm > taking, it's been really easy to just > > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz Hopefully, I am making sense. > > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time are > > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. If > > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them are, > > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, my > > screen reader reads things to me faster than > many sided people read. While I > > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an > > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Arielle, > >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a > >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. > >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high > >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI as > >> > >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I needed > >> > >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for me > >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of acted > >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. > >> > >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given on a > >> > >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and not > >> others. > >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across > >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. > >> > >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of > >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since > >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. > >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math > >> if you beg for it. > >> > >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its multiple > >> > >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, I > >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the best > >> answer. > >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by > >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. > >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure > >> they circled the right one. > >> > >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I > >> need to scroll back up to check my answers. > >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes > >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same > >> > >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. > >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz > >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to > >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. > >> > >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats > >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in the > >> many cases I do need it. > >> > >> Now, I just hope I can get > >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for > >> me to get extended time. > >> > >> Ashley > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time > >> > >> Hi all, > >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about > >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not > >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for > >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking > >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have > >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and > >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra > >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology > >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether > >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or > >> for Braille or large print tests. > >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I > >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully > >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot > >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad > >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use > >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and > >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time > >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel > >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that > >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted > >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to > >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille > >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it > >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds > >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille > >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* > >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the > >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who > >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the > >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing > >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I > >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job > >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation > >> and employment myself. > >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just > >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is > >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it > >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions > >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when > >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students > >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why > >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill > >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the > >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably > >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading > >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with > >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more > >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as > >> sightedd colleagues. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 23:05:33 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:05:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ari, Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't have to schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the information and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home quiz. I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the Sakai or blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people who dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything I can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person to help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I needed in elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need that anymore. On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Ari, > > Personally, I reject all that On-line > test taking, preferring instead human inner > action. I don't feel it saying anything less of > me to call on my fellllow humans to, in the > absence of my own visual capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. > I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? > This, is to say that personally, I don't mind > calling on my fellow humans to do the ocular > seeing for me, just as I would be totall obliged > if another person needed me to fulfill some > sensual imput that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you > wrote: >>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>Ari >>Ari >> >>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > Kirt, >> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for >> > radio >> > buttons. >> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >> > there >> > are four buttons for four choices per answer. >> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >> by line to select my choice. I >> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me >> > to >> > the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to >> > explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each >> > answer. >> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read >> > the >> > answer but its not like that. >> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >> > quiz >> > with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading >> > level >> > it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 >> > for >> > heading 3. >> > >> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say >> > question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by >> > line >> > through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >> > >> > >> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >> hoping to get used to it and find >> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if >> > I >> > feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class >> > quizzes though. >> > >> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Kirt >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> > >> > Ashley, >> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be >> > the >> > case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press are, from the >> > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the >> > first >> > question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down. And, at >> > least >> > for me, once I figured out how Jaws >> Associates radio buttons with particular >> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >> taking, it's been really easy to just >> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making >> > sense. >> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time >> > are >> > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else. >> > If >> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them >> > are, >> > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed, >> > my >> > screen reader reads things to me faster than >> many sided people read. While I >> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an >> > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Arielle, >> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send >> >> a >> >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in high >> >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI >> >> as >> >> >> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I >> >> needed >> >> >> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for >> >> me >> >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of >> >> acted >> >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be given >> >> on a >> >> >> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and >> >> not >> >> others. >> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >> >> across >> >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors. >> >> >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of >> >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe >> >> math >> >> if you beg for it. >> >> >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >> >> multiple >> >> >> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker, >> >> I >> >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the >> >> best >> >> answer. >> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line >> >> by >> >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer. >> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >> >> ensure >> >> they circled the right one. >> >> >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I >> >> need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes >> >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the >> >> same >> >> >> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz >> >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading >> >> to >> >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much. >> >> >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >> >> formats >> >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in >> >> the >> >> many cases I do need it. >> >> >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed >> >> for >> >> me to get extended time. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about >> >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not >> >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for >> >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking >> >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have >> >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and >> >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra >> >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology >> >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether >> >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or >> >> for Braille or large print tests. >> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I >> >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully >> >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot >> >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad >> >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use >> >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and >> >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time >> >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel >> >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that >> >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted >> >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to >> >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille >> >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it >> >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* >> >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the >> >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who >> >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the >> >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing >> >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I >> >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job >> >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation >> >> and employment myself. >> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just >> >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it >> >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions >> >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when >> >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students >> >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why >> >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill >> >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the >> >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably >> >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading >> >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with >> >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more >> >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as >> >> sightedd colleagues. >> >> Best, >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dkent5817 at att.net Fri Feb 8 01:20:14 2013 From: dkent5817 at att.net (Deborah Kent Stein) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:20:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple Free Braille Books Message-ID: I have a copy of Bartlett's Familiar Quotations in Braille that I will happily give to anyone who wants it. It is in 105 soft-covered Braille volumes, and I will ship it as Free Matter for the Blind. I am also giving away a Braille copy of the University of Chicago English-Spanish Spanish-English Pocket Dictionary, in 27 soft-covered volumes. Both books are available on a first come, first served basis. Please contact me at dkent5817 at att.net or 773-203-1394. Debbie Stein From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 01:25:42 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:25:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> Message-ID: <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Kaiti and all, Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa when compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able to give insight into. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time Ari, Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't have to schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the information and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home quiz. I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the Sakai or blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people who dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything I can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person to help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I needed in elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need that anymore. On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Ari, > > Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring > instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me > to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual > capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. > I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? > This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow > humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall > obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput > that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you > wrote: >>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>Ari >>Ari >> >>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > Kirt, >> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >> > for radio buttons. >> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >> by line to select my choice. I >> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >> > goes with each answer. >> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >> > read the answer but its not like that. >> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >> > >> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >> > >> > >> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >> hoping to get used to it and find >> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >> > extra time in class quizzes though. >> > >> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Kirt >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> > >> > Ashley, >> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >> Associates radio buttons with particular >> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >> taking, it's been really easy to just >> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >> > sense. >> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >> > somebody else. >> > If >> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >> many sided people read. While I >> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have. >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Arielle, >> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >> >> teacher, or TVI as >> >> >> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >> >> I needed >> >> >> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >> >> >> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >> >> given on a >> >> >> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >> >> and not others. >> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >> >> professors. >> >> >> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >> >> >> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >> >> multiple >> >> >> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >> >> to pic the best answer. >> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >> >> right answer. >> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >> >> ensure they circled the right one. >> >> >> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >> >> >> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >> >> help too much. >> >> >> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >> >> >> >> Now, I just hope I can get >> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >> >> changed for me to get extended time. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille or large print tests. >> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation and employment myself. >> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. >> >> Best, >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >> gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >> mail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 02:19:00 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 19:19:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE In-Reply-To: <511301F5.2050905@pcdesk.net> References: <5112DAAB.3010409@pcdesk.net> <511301F5.2050905@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Hi Joe, I think with any kind of standardized testing, there are going to be a few very vocal people who had negative experiences, but that doesn't represent how it is for most people. If you work things out with Ruth you should be in good hands. Arielle On 2/6/13, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Arielle, > Thank you very much; that's pretty much exactly the information I was > looking for. I shall contact Ruth Loew as you suggested and work out my > accommodations. I was glad to hear something positive; I had been > hearing a lot of negative feedback about ETS and their willingness to > accommodate a few years ago. When I learned I was going to have to go > through it, there was a certain amount of dread involved. I figured it > might end up being a lot harder than it looks like it's actually going > to be. > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Fri Feb 8 03:15:37 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:15:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple Free Braille Books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I recently circulated a message about free Braille books. If you are interested, please contact Debbie directly at: dkent5817 at att.net Thanks! Dave At 07:20 PM 2/7/2013, you wrote: >I have a copy of Bartlett's Familiar Quotations in Braille that I >will happily give to anyone who wants it. It is in 105 soft-covered >Braille volumes, and I will ship it as Free Matter for the Blind. I >am also giving away a Braille copy of the University of Chicago >English-Spanish Spanish-English Pocket Dictionary, in 27 >soft-covered volumes. Both books are available on a first come, >first served basis. Please contact me at dkent5817 at att.net or 773-203-1394. > >Debbie Stein dkent5817 at att.net From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 04:39:01 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 23:39:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris and all, Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good point to consider. Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's like. Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone else do something for you because you can't see it can be a double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my take on it. On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Kaiti and all, > > Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if > any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa when > compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able to > give insight into. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Ari, > > Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. > I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't have > to > schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the information > and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home quiz. > I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a > variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the Sakai > or > blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility > guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an > obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. > > Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound > harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess > it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other > people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people who > dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything I > can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person to > help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I needed > in > elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need that > anymore. > > On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good morning, Ari, >> >> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? >> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >> wrote: >>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>Ari >>>Ari >>> >>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> > Kirt, >>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>> > for radio buttons. >>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>> by line to select my choice. I >>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>> > goes with each answer. >>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>> > >>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>> > >>> > >>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>> hoping to get used to it and find >>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>> > >>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>> > Ashley >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Kirt >>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> > >>> > Ashley, >>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>> > sense. >>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>> > somebody else. >>> > If >>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>> many sided people read. While I >>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>> > have. >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPhone >>> > >>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi Arielle, >>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>> >> >>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>> >> I needed >>> >> >>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>> >> >>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>> >> given on a >>> >> >>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>> >> and not others. >>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>> >> professors. >>> >> >>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>> >> >>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>> >> multiple >>> >> >>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>> >> to pic the best answer. >>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>> >> right answer. >>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>> >> >>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>> >> >>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>> >> help too much. >>> >> >>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>> >> >>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>> >> >>> >> Ashley >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >> >>> >> Hi all, >>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille > or large print tests. >>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me > as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. >>> >> Best, >>> >> Arielle >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>> gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> > for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>> mail.com >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From kaybaycar at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 05:05:43 2013 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 23:05:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students in all ways possible. Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about doing things independently and being able to access the same material and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. :) Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer here. On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Chris and all, > > Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good > point to consider. > > Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called > Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron > saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of > my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class > assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section > called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has > uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, > checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the > submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade > them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it > to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score > on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had > experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to > Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not > in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not > have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become > accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness > organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the > digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I > can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's > like. > > Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to > consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our > disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone > else do something for you because you can't see it can be a > double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance > because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues > than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text > and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people > to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may > cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and > what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think > that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my > take on it. > > On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Kaiti and all, >> >> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >> when >> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able >> to >> give insight into. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Ari, >> >> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't have >> to >> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the information >> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >> quiz. >> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the Sakai >> or >> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >> >> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound >> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess >> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people >> who >> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything >> I >> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person >> to >> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I needed >> in >> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >> that >> anymore. >> >> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Good morning, Ari, >>> >>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? >>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>> wrote: >>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>Ari >>>>Ari >>>> >>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> > Kirt, >>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>> > for radio buttons. >>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>> > goes with each answer. >>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>> > >>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>> > >>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>> > Ashley >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Kirt >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> > >>>> > Ashley, >>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>> > sense. >>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>> > somebody else. >>>> > If >>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>> many sided people read. While I >>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>> > have. >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>> > >>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>> >> >>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>> >> I needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>> >> >>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>> >> given on a >>>> >> >>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>> >> and not others. >>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>> >> professors. >>>> >> >>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>> >> >>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>> >> multiple >>>> >> >>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>> >> right answer. >>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>> >> >>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>> >> >>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>> >> help too much. >>>> >> >>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >> >>>> >> Hi all, >>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>> >> Braille >> or large print tests. >>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for >>>> >> me >> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. >>>> >> Best, >>>> >> Arielle >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> thlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> thlink.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 06:24:30 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 08:24:30 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes Kaiti, I think for the most part if it can be done on its own, then try do it. Unfortunately there are often times and for so many things one has to ask help from students and people that where it is possible you have to try do what you can on your own. Take me for example. I have another problem where I have to often ask students to help me to the different classes, because they change nearly every 3 months. Even if I know my way to a building, or how to get to the floor of the class, it gets difficult sometimes to try find it. OK, I have a terrible sense of direction, but it is even when the campus is huge and all of a sudden you have class in some random building you have no idea where it is. I'm interested to know how you guys get to different classes, the strategies you use. I know my way around the main places I normally go, cafeteria, my department, the unit, but navigating more widely I just don't know how to handle. I'm quite interested, you say you have to schedule your exams, do you write them at the same time as other students, or why is it something you have to arrange with your professors? I'm not talking about quizzes, you were saying something about mid-terms, so I'm just curious to know how it works there. Here we write them at the same time, and we write in the disability office. >From what I gather, the problem with moodle is, its not moodle itself that might be inaccessible. It is more the fact that people who design the content that goes on moodle design it in an inaccessible way. Wow Julie, you are very lucky to have such a great disability office. That's really great. Unfortunately here it does work the other way round like you were explaining, although I suppose its more a matter of the people who design stuff here not really communicating or worrying about accessibility, so they don't consult with the disability office, its great that there they ask for input. Here unfortunately it is more the case of that disabled people, especially the blind are such a small minority that the easiest solutions are looked at. Actually, while I'm on the topic of blind advocacy, I just want to write and explain something here which might be going a bit off-topic, but I do think its very important and interesting to learn about circumstances of blind people in different countries. We do have advocacy organisations here, but unfortunately due to circumstances we here can never really unite into as strong organisations as RNIB and NFB to fight as much for accessibility or adjustments as what you guys can. This is unfortunately because the circumstances here for blind people are so divided and in much more desperate conditions. Yes I often complain about not being able to use diagrams or the lack of resources or help that I have or can get, but I am actually incredibly fortunate and grateful for the opportunity to study that I have, and one must just try make the best of it. Why I'm saying this is, the main reason why we can't really advocate for more advanced services here is because our organisations and we ourselves rather have a duty and must rather help the blind here who are really in poverty. I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of the blind here, it is basically about a struggle for survival and to survive. Many blind people here who don't have the opportunities I've been fortunate to have often spend their days trying to play music outside shops, selling things at street lights, or even begging just to try get something to survive and live. Some of them don't even have the dignity of being able to have a propper cane, they often use wooden sticks or even tree branches. We definitely rather have a duty to help these people first before we can even begin to worry about other things. I didn't say all this to try guilt-trip anyone or anything like that. The point I think I'm trying to make is, yes there are some difficulties in studying and being able to do some things, but when we realise the opportunities we have we must try our best because we are so lucky to have these opportunities, and we must really be greatful for them. So I encourage everyone to study as hard as you can, and to realise how wonderful it is to be able to learn and read about things. I just hope all of you who I've met on the list so far will be lucky to get a job one day. Ari On 2/8/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place > where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as > independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a > reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we > (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students > in all ways possible. > > Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the > graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different > forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone > came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this > new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be > accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out > for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said > that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about > doing things independently and being able to access the same material > and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. > :) > > Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be > independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a > foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, > your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer > here. > > On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Chris and all, >> >> Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good >> point to consider. >> >> Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called >> Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron >> saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of >> my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class >> assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section >> called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has >> uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, >> checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the >> submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade >> them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it >> to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score >> on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had >> experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to >> Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not >> in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not >> have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become >> accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness >> organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the >> digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I >> can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's >> like. >> >> Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to >> consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our >> disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone >> else do something for you because you can't see it can be a >> double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance >> because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues >> than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text >> and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people >> to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may >> cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and >> what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think >> that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my >> take on it. >> >> On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Kaiti and all, >>> >>> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >>> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >>> when >>> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able >>> to >>> give insight into. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Ari, >>> >>> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >>> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't >>> have >>> to >>> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the >>> information >>> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >>> quiz. >>> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >>> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the >>> Sakai >>> or >>> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >>> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >>> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >>> >>> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound >>> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess >>> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >>> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people >>> who >>> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything >>> I >>> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person >>> to >>> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I >>> needed >>> in >>> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >>> that >>> anymore. >>> >>> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>> Good morning, Ari, >>>> >>>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >>>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >>>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? >>>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>>> wrote: >>>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>>Ari >>>>>Ari >>>>> >>>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> > Kirt, >>>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>>> > for radio buttons. >>>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>>> > goes with each answer. >>>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>>> > >>>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>>> > >>>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>> > Ashley >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Kirt >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> > >>>>> > Ashley, >>>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>>> > sense. >>>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>>> > somebody else. >>>>> > If >>>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>> many sided people read. While I >>>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>>> > have. >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>> > >>>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>>> >> >>>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>> >> I needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>> >> given on a >>>>> >> >>>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>> >> and not others. >>>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>>> >> professors. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>> >> multiple >>>>> >> >>>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>>> >> right answer. >>>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>>> >> >>>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>>> >> help too much. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Hi all, >>>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>>> >> Braille >>> or large print tests. >>>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for >>>>> >> me >>> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. >>>>> >> Best, >>>>> >> Arielle >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>>.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 07:36:49 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:36:49 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris Sorry, I only saw your post now. For some weird reason it seems as if your posts are being put in my spam folder, I must try work out why. Anyway, you were wondering about tests in South Africa? Mostly everyone still does the pen and paper. Even quizzes, we're still on that stage as far as I've seen in my studies, not much is done online at the moment. Some courses have moved to online tests in some ways, like multiple choice questions, but not many, and I'm also not too sure how they accommodate the normal students, they probably have to write it in the computer centre. There is now an initiative where students can get netbooks quite affordably, so it will be interesting to see in the future how much will move to online testing. Many students like me use a netbook or a laptop or something to take notes in class, now but still many prefer or rather use paper. For exams, the students also all go write in a large exam hall using books, pen and paper. Disabled students who can't do that usually go to the disability office and we write on a computer with jaws. Ari On 2/8/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Yes Kaiti, I think for the most part if it can be done on its own, > then try do it. Unfortunately there are often times and for so many > things one has to ask help from students and people that where it is > possible you have to try do what you can on your own. Take me for > example. I have another problem where I have to often ask students to > help me to the different classes, because they change nearly every 3 > months. Even if I know my way to a building, or how to get to the > floor of the class, it gets difficult sometimes to try find it. OK, I > have a terrible sense of direction, but it is even when the campus is > huge and all of a sudden you have class in some random building you > have no idea where it is. I'm interested to know how you guys get to > different classes, the strategies you use. I know my way around the > main places I normally go, cafeteria, my department, the unit, but > navigating more widely I just don't know how to handle. > I'm quite interested, you say you have to schedule your exams, do you > write them at the same time as other students, or why is it something > you have to arrange with your professors? I'm not talking about > quizzes, you were saying something about mid-terms, so I'm just > curious to know how it works there. Here we write them at the same > time, and we write in the disability office. > From what I gather, the problem with moodle is, its not moodle itself > that might be inaccessible. It is more the fact that people who design > the content that goes on moodle design it in an inaccessible way. > Wow Julie, you are very lucky to have such a great disability office. > That's really great. Unfortunately here it does work the other way > round like you were explaining, although I suppose its more a matter > of the people who design stuff here not really communicating or > worrying about accessibility, so they don't consult with the > disability office, its great that there they ask for input. Here > unfortunately it is more the case of that disabled people, especially > the blind are such a small minority that the easiest solutions are > looked at. > Actually, while I'm on the topic of blind advocacy, I just want to > write and explain something here which might be going a bit off-topic, > but I do think its very important and interesting to learn about > circumstances of blind people in different countries. > We do have advocacy organisations here, but unfortunately due to > circumstances we here can never really unite into as strong > organisations as RNIB and NFB to fight as much for accessibility or > adjustments as what you guys can. > This is unfortunately because the circumstances here for blind people > are so divided and in much more desperate conditions. > Yes I often complain about not being able to use diagrams or the lack > of resources or help that I have or can get, but I am actually > incredibly fortunate and grateful for the opportunity to study that I > have, and one must just try make the best of it. > Why I'm saying this is, the main reason why we can't really advocate > for more advanced services here is because our organisations and we > ourselves rather have a duty and must rather help the blind here who > are really in poverty. > I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of the blind here, it is > basically about a struggle for survival and to survive. > Many blind people here who don't have the opportunities I've been > fortunate to have often spend their days trying to play music outside > shops, selling things at street lights, or even begging just to try > get something to survive and live. Some of them don't even have the > dignity of being able to have a propper cane, they often use wooden > sticks or even tree branches. We definitely rather have a duty to help > these people first before we can even begin to worry about other > things. > I didn't say all this to try guilt-trip anyone or anything like that. > The point I think I'm trying to make is, yes there are some > difficulties in studying and being able to do some things, but when we > realise the opportunities we have we must try our best because we are > so lucky to have these opportunities, and we must really be greatful > for them. So I encourage everyone to study as hard as you can, and to > realise how wonderful it is to be able to learn and read about things. > I just hope all of you who I've met on the list so far will be lucky > to get a job one day. > Ari > On 2/8/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place >> where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as >> independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a >> reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we >> (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students >> in all ways possible. >> >> Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the >> graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different >> forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone >> came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this >> new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be >> accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out >> for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said >> that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about >> doing things independently and being able to access the same material >> and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. >> :) >> >> Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be >> independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a >> foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, >> your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer >> here. >> >> On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Chris and all, >>> >>> Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good >>> point to consider. >>> >>> Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called >>> Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron >>> saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of >>> my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class >>> assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section >>> called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has >>> uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, >>> checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the >>> submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade >>> them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it >>> to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score >>> on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had >>> experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to >>> Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not >>> in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not >>> have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become >>> accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness >>> organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the >>> digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I >>> can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's >>> like. >>> >>> Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to >>> consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our >>> disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone >>> else do something for you because you can't see it can be a >>> double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance >>> because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues >>> than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text >>> and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people >>> to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may >>> cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and >>> what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think >>> that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my >>> take on it. >>> >>> On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Kaiti and all, >>>> >>>> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >>>> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >>>> when >>>> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able >>>> to >>>> give insight into. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >>>> Ari, >>>> >>>> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >>>> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't >>>> have >>>> to >>>> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the >>>> information >>>> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >>>> quiz. >>>> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >>>> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the >>>> Sakai >>>> or >>>> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >>>> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >>>> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >>>> >>>> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound >>>> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I >>>> guess >>>> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >>>> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people >>>> who >>>> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do >>>> everything >>>> I >>>> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person >>>> to >>>> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I >>>> needed >>>> in >>>> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >>>> that >>>> anymore. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>> Good morning, Ari, >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >>>>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >>>>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>>>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>>>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater >>>>> how? >>>>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>>>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>>>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>>>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>>>Ari >>>>>>Ari >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> > Kirt, >>>>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>>>> > for radio buttons. >>>>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>>>> > goes with each answer. >>>>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>>> > Ashley >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: Kirt >>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Ashley, >>>>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>>>> > sense. >>>>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>>>> > somebody else. >>>>>> > If >>>>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>>> many sided people read. While I >>>>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>>>> > have. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>>> >> I needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>>> >> given on a >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>>> >> and not others. >>>>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>>>> >> professors. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>>> >> multiple >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>>>> >> right answer. >>>>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>>>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>>>> >> help too much. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Hi all, >>>>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>>>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>>>> >> Braille >>>> or large print tests. >>>>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>>>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>>>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>>>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>>>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>>>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>>>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>>>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>>>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>>>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for >>>>>> >> me >>>> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>>>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd >>>>>> >> colleagues. >>>>>> >> Best, >>>>>> >> Arielle >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>>>.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > From philso1003 at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 18:24:06 2013 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:24:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good blind/disability events you know of? Message-ID: Hey guys, I am helping someone compiling a list of good events related to blind people/people with disabilities. Besides the national and state conventions, do you know other great events? This can include both serious and fun events, ranging from conferences such as Baruch College Computer Center for Visually Impaired People annual employment and technology conference, to workshops such as assistive technology demonstration workshops, to performances such as Lighthouse at the Met concert in New York, to shows such as podcasts? Thanks for sharing!! Phil From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 9 00:20:19 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 19:20:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC><2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net><010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ED6CD4F63644E51B5B1DD29D44DACB7@OwnerPC> Ari, Exams are taken outside class in a supervised setting; that is why they're scheduled in advance; they have to ensure they have space for you as other disabled students take exams outside class too. Exams are often taken in a testing center where other exams placement tests are given or in a room of the disability office. So that is why they are scheduled in advance. You have to ensure your professor gave the disability office or testing center the test and they are ready for you to take it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:24 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time Yes Kaiti, I think for the most part if it can be done on its own, then try do it. Unfortunately there are often times and for so many things one has to ask help from students and people that where it is possible you have to try do what you can on your own. Take me for example. I have another problem where I have to often ask students to help me to the different classes, because they change nearly every 3 months. Even if I know my way to a building, or how to get to the floor of the class, it gets difficult sometimes to try find it. OK, I have a terrible sense of direction, but it is even when the campus is huge and all of a sudden you have class in some random building you have no idea where it is. I'm interested to know how you guys get to different classes, the strategies you use. I know my way around the main places I normally go, cafeteria, my department, the unit, but navigating more widely I just don't know how to handle. I'm quite interested, you say you have to schedule your exams, do you write them at the same time as other students, or why is it something you have to arrange with your professors? I'm not talking about quizzes, you were saying something about mid-terms, so I'm just curious to know how it works there. Here we write them at the same time, and we write in the disability office. >From what I gather, the problem with moodle is, its not moodle itself that might be inaccessible. It is more the fact that people who design the content that goes on moodle design it in an inaccessible way. Wow Julie, you are very lucky to have such a great disability office. That's really great. Unfortunately here it does work the other way round like you were explaining, although I suppose its more a matter of the people who design stuff here not really communicating or worrying about accessibility, so they don't consult with the disability office, its great that there they ask for input. Here unfortunately it is more the case of that disabled people, especially the blind are such a small minority that the easiest solutions are looked at. Actually, while I'm on the topic of blind advocacy, I just want to write and explain something here which might be going a bit off-topic, but I do think its very important and interesting to learn about circumstances of blind people in different countries. We do have advocacy organisations here, but unfortunately due to circumstances we here can never really unite into as strong organisations as RNIB and NFB to fight as much for accessibility or adjustments as what you guys can. This is unfortunately because the circumstances here for blind people are so divided and in much more desperate conditions. Yes I often complain about not being able to use diagrams or the lack of resources or help that I have or can get, but I am actually incredibly fortunate and grateful for the opportunity to study that I have, and one must just try make the best of it. Why I'm saying this is, the main reason why we can't really advocate for more advanced services here is because our organisations and we ourselves rather have a duty and must rather help the blind here who are really in poverty. I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of the blind here, it is basically about a struggle for survival and to survive. Many blind people here who don't have the opportunities I've been fortunate to have often spend their days trying to play music outside shops, selling things at street lights, or even begging just to try get something to survive and live. Some of them don't even have the dignity of being able to have a propper cane, they often use wooden sticks or even tree branches. We definitely rather have a duty to help these people first before we can even begin to worry about other things. I didn't say all this to try guilt-trip anyone or anything like that. The point I think I'm trying to make is, yes there are some difficulties in studying and being able to do some things, but when we realise the opportunities we have we must try our best because we are so lucky to have these opportunities, and we must really be greatful for them. So I encourage everyone to study as hard as you can, and to realise how wonderful it is to be able to learn and read about things. I just hope all of you who I've met on the list so far will be lucky to get a job one day. Ari On 2/8/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: > I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place > where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as > independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a > reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we > (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students > in all ways possible. > > Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the > graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different > forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone > came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this > new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be > accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out > for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said > that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about > doing things independently and being able to access the same material > and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. > :) > > Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be > independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a > foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, > your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer > here. > > On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Chris and all, >> >> Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good >> point to consider. >> >> Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called >> Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron >> saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of >> my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class >> assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section >> called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has >> uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, >> checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the >> submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade >> them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it >> to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score >> on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had >> experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to >> Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not >> in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not >> have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become >> accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness >> organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the >> digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I >> can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's >> like. >> >> Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to >> consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our >> disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone >> else do something for you because you can't see it can be a >> double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance >> because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues >> than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text >> and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people >> to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may >> cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and >> what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think >> that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my >> take on it. >> >> On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Kaiti and all, >>> >>> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >>> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >>> when >>> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able >>> to >>> give insight into. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>> >>> Ari, >>> >>> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >>> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't >>> have >>> to >>> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the >>> information >>> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >>> quiz. >>> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >>> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the >>> Sakai >>> or >>> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >>> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >>> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >>> >>> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound >>> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I guess >>> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >>> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people >>> who >>> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do everything >>> I >>> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person >>> to >>> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I >>> needed >>> in >>> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >>> that >>> anymore. >>> >>> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>> Good morning, Ari, >>>> >>>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >>>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >>>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how? >>>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>>> wrote: >>>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>>Ari >>>>>Ari >>>>> >>>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> > Kirt, >>>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>>> > for radio buttons. >>>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>>> > goes with each answer. >>>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>>> > >>>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>>> > >>>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>> > Ashley >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Kirt >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> > >>>>> > Ashley, >>>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>>> > sense. >>>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>>> > somebody else. >>>>> > If >>>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>> many sided people read. While I >>>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>>> > have. >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>> > >>>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>>> >> >>>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>> >> I needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>> >> given on a >>>>> >> >>>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>> >> and not others. >>>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>>> >> professors. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>> >> multiple >>>>> >> >>>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>>> >> right answer. >>>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>>> >> >>>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>>> >> help too much. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Hi all, >>>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>>> >> Braille >>> or large print tests. >>>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for >>>>> >> me >>> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. >>>>> >> Best, >>>>> >> Arielle >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>>.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National > Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 9 00:29:50 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 19:29:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good blind/disability events you know of? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, Yes here are some; I don't know dettails but you can look dates and locations up online. CSUN conference in CA The NFB summer youth programs at the NFB centers Any transition program at the various rehab centers and schools for the blind The ATIA conference; I think it stands for assistive technology initiative association I also think AFB and AER have conferences. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Philip S Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Good blind/disability events you know of? Hey guys, I am helping someone compiling a list of good events related to blind people/people with disabilities. Besides the national and state conventions, do you know other great events? This can include both serious and fun events, ranging from conferences such as Baruch College Computer Center for Visually Impaired People annual employment and technology conference, to workshops such as assistive technology demonstration workshops, to performances such as Lighthouse at the Met concert in New York, to shows such as podcasts? Thanks for sharing!! Phil _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 9 00:57:13 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 19:57:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mp3 players accessibility Message-ID: <78D5AE1AE4D94693A11FEFC8AE608A76@OwnerPC> Hi all, I have a number of music and archived webinars I download in mp3 format. I also want to play digital mainstream books. Anyone have suggestions on accessible MP 3 players? Yes, I know about the expensive ones for blind people; in fact I have a vr stream, but it needs a new battery or something. I want a mainstream player. I also know apple products are accessible, but in fact I have one and struggle with its touch screen buttons. so close together! I tend to tap the wrong things. Anyway, that question in another post. In fact ideally I’d like a mp3 player with a radio too! I know most mp3 players have buttons now a days. I’ve seen a number of them in stores. But what is accessible to us? Thanks. Ashley From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 05:36:09 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 07:36:09 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: <2ED6CD4F63644E51B5B1DD29D44DACB7@OwnerPC> References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> <2ED6CD4F63644E51B5B1DD29D44DACB7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh that's how we do with normal tests, we have to arrange them with the unit and the professors. With exams its different because I think the question papers all go to an office and then they distribute them, we don't have to make arrangements there. I'm not sure how it works in other unis here though, this might just be a Wits thing. Ari On 2/9/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ari, > Exams are taken outside class in a supervised setting; that is why they're > scheduled in advance; they have to ensure they have space for you as other > disabled students take exams outside class too. > > Exams are often taken in a testing center where other exams placement tests > > are given or in a room of the disability office. > So that is why they are scheduled in advance. You have to ensure your > professor gave the disability office or testing center the test and they are > > ready for you to take it. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ari Damoulakis > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:24 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time > > Yes Kaiti, I think for the most part if it can be done on its own, > then try do it. Unfortunately there are often times and for so many > things one has to ask help from students and people that where it is > possible you have to try do what you can on your own. Take me for > example. I have another problem where I have to often ask students to > help me to the different classes, because they change nearly every 3 > months. Even if I know my way to a building, or how to get to the > floor of the class, it gets difficult sometimes to try find it. OK, I > have a terrible sense of direction, but it is even when the campus is > huge and all of a sudden you have class in some random building you > have no idea where it is. I'm interested to know how you guys get to > different classes, the strategies you use. I know my way around the > main places I normally go, cafeteria, my department, the unit, but > navigating more widely I just don't know how to handle. > I'm quite interested, you say you have to schedule your exams, do you > write them at the same time as other students, or why is it something > you have to arrange with your professors? I'm not talking about > quizzes, you were saying something about mid-terms, so I'm just > curious to know how it works there. Here we write them at the same > time, and we write in the disability office. > From what I gather, the problem with moodle is, its not moodle itself > that might be inaccessible. It is more the fact that people who design > the content that goes on moodle design it in an inaccessible way. > Wow Julie, you are very lucky to have such a great disability office. > That's really great. Unfortunately here it does work the other way > round like you were explaining, although I suppose its more a matter > of the people who design stuff here not really communicating or > worrying about accessibility, so they don't consult with the > disability office, its great that there they ask for input. Here > unfortunately it is more the case of that disabled people, especially > the blind are such a small minority that the easiest solutions are > looked at. > Actually, while I'm on the topic of blind advocacy, I just want to > write and explain something here which might be going a bit off-topic, > but I do think its very important and interesting to learn about > circumstances of blind people in different countries. > We do have advocacy organisations here, but unfortunately due to > circumstances we here can never really unite into as strong > organisations as RNIB and NFB to fight as much for accessibility or > adjustments as what you guys can. > This is unfortunately because the circumstances here for blind people > are so divided and in much more desperate conditions. > Yes I often complain about not being able to use diagrams or the lack > of resources or help that I have or can get, but I am actually > incredibly fortunate and grateful for the opportunity to study that I > have, and one must just try make the best of it. > Why I'm saying this is, the main reason why we can't really advocate > for more advanced services here is because our organisations and we > ourselves rather have a duty and must rather help the blind here who > are really in poverty. > I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of the blind here, it is > basically about a struggle for survival and to survive. > Many blind people here who don't have the opportunities I've been > fortunate to have often spend their days trying to play music outside > shops, selling things at street lights, or even begging just to try > get something to survive and live. Some of them don't even have the > dignity of being able to have a propper cane, they often use wooden > sticks or even tree branches. We definitely rather have a duty to help > these people first before we can even begin to worry about other > things. > I didn't say all this to try guilt-trip anyone or anything like that. > The point I think I'm trying to make is, yes there are some > difficulties in studying and being able to do some things, but when we > realise the opportunities we have we must try our best because we are > so lucky to have these opportunities, and we must really be greatful > for them. So I encourage everyone to study as hard as you can, and to > realise how wonderful it is to be able to learn and read about things. > I just hope all of you who I've met on the list so far will be lucky > to get a job one day. > Ari > On 2/8/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place >> where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as >> independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a >> reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we >> (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students >> in all ways possible. >> >> Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the >> graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different >> forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone >> came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this >> new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be >> accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out >> for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said >> that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about >> doing things independently and being able to access the same material >> and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. >> :) >> >> Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be >> independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a >> foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, >> your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer >> here. >> >> On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Chris and all, >>> >>> Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good >>> point to consider. >>> >>> Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called >>> Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron >>> saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of >>> my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class >>> assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section >>> called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has >>> uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, >>> checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the >>> submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade >>> them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it >>> to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score >>> on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had >>> experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to >>> Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not >>> in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not >>> have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become >>> accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness >>> organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the >>> digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I >>> can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's >>> like. >>> >>> Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to >>> consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our >>> disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone >>> else do something for you because you can't see it can be a >>> double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance >>> because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues >>> than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text >>> and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people >>> to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may >>> cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and >>> what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think >>> that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my >>> take on it. >>> >>> On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Kaiti and all, >>>> >>>> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >>>> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >>>> when >>>> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be able >>>> to >>>> give insight into. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>> >>>> Ari, >>>> >>>> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >>>> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't >>>> have >>>> to >>>> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the >>>> information >>>> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >>>> quiz. >>>> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >>>> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the >>>> Sakai >>>> or >>>> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >>>> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >>>> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >>>> >>>> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to sound >>>> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I >>>> guess >>>> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >>>> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those people >>>> who >>>> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do >>>> everything >>>> I >>>> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another person >>>> to >>>> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I >>>> needed >>>> in >>>> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >>>> that >>>> anymore. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>> Good morning, Ari, >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, preferring >>>>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of me >>>>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>>>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>>>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater >>>>> how? >>>>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>>>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>>>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>>>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems >>>>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online >>>>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see >>>>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple >>>>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>>>Ari >>>>>>Ari >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> > Kirt, >>>>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>>>> > for radio buttons. >>>>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is >>>>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take >>>>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>>>> > goes with each answer. >>>>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the >>>>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>>> > Ashley >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: Kirt >>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Ashley, >>>>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to >>>>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>>>> > sense. >>>>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>>>> > somebody else. >>>>>> > If >>>>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>>> many sided people read. While I >>>>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>>>> > have. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>>> >> I needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI >>>>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>>> >> given on a >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>>> >> and not others. >>>>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>>>> >> professors. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>>> >> multiple >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>>>> >> right answer. >>>>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I wish >>>>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for >>>>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>>>> >> help too much. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Hi all, >>>>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat >>>>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>>>> >> Braille >>>> or large print tests. >>>>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened >>>>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always >>>>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So >>>>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't >>>>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or >>>>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the >>>>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they >>>>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting >>>>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let >>>>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for >>>>>> >> me >>>> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not >>>>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to >>>>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd >>>>>> >> colleagues. >>>>>> >> Best, >>>>>> >> Arielle >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>>>.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From iperrault at hotmail.com Sat Feb 9 06:57:19 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 01:57:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Books on the IPhone Message-ID: Hi I’m wondering if there’s a way to play the BARD books on the IPhone? Since there’s a way to play the books from Learning Ally, it would be great if BARD came out with an IPhone app. Ian From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 07:19:46 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 02:19:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Books on the IPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87335DF9-4100-4310-9633-E93C5ED9FA85@gmail.com> There is not currently away to play bard books, however they are working on an app, according to eyes on success, a podcast for blind people That can't be found at www.eyesonsuccess.net. --Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:57 AM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > Hi > I’m wondering if there’s a way to play the BARD books on the IPhone? Since there’s a way to play the books from Learning Ally, it would be great if BARD came out with an IPhone app. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail From juanitatighan at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 07:27:03 2013 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 02:27:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Books on the IPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. According to Judy Dickson, an iPhone app is coming soon. Not sure what is meant by soon Jane Sent from my iPad On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:57 AM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > Hi > I’m wondering if there’s a way to play the BARD books on the IPhone? Since there’s a way to play the books from Learning Ally, it would be great if BARD came out with an IPhone app. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail/m From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 13:27:01 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 08:27:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Books on the IPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-6267837723171769450@unknownmsgid> They have been saying that for a while now, so I guess they are still working on it. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2013, at 2:29 AM, Jane wrote: > Hi. According to Judy Dickson, an iPhone app is coming soon. Not sure what is meant by soon > Jane > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:57 AM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > >> Hi >> I’m wondering if there’s a way to play the BARD books on the IPhone? Since there’s a way to play the books from Learning Ally, it would be great if BARD came out with an IPhone app. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail/m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 9 17:17:50 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:17:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Books on the IPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not yet, but they are developing an iPhone app. It is due out later this year. Dave At 12:57 AM 2/9/2013, you wrote: >Hi >I'm wondering if there's a way to play the BARD books on the IPhone? >Since there's a way to play the books from Learning Ally, it would >be great if BARD came out with an IPhone app. >Ian From troubleclark at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 18:49:27 2013 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 13:49:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] spanish symbols for Apex help Message-ID: Dear NABS, I was wondering if someone could tell me how I can find a comprehensive list of symbols used for Spanish for the Braille Note Apex? Thanks for any help that is given. Sincerely, Nathan Clark From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 21:45:49 2013 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 16:45:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] spanish symbols for Apex help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nathan, Spanish is one of the easier languages in terms of accents. All of the vowels are accented. If you enable Spanish on your Apex and you set computer braille to 8-dot, you'll have no problems. Let me know if you need anything else. Patrick On 2/9/13, Nathan Clark wrote: > Dear NABS, > I was wondering if someone could tell me how I can find a > comprehensive list of symbols used for Spanish for the Braille Note > Apex? Thanks for any help that is given. > Sincerely, > Nathan Clark > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Sun Feb 10 21:16:50 2013 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:16:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] complements for Chris and Sophie Message-ID: Hi all, just wanted to put it out there that Chris and Sophie did a good job on the Nick News podcast. If either of you want to supply a link to it for those that didn't watch the show on TV or want to see the podcast, feel free to do it. I will tell you guys right now, the show was awesome, and I loved how all of the students, not just the ones on this list, represented the blind community with pride. We should be proud of who we are, and for those of us who didn't get to see the podcast, I don't want to give too much away, but those students on the list who did, please supply the link to the podcast on list so that those who didn't see the show might be able to keep it in mind and watch. I had the privilege of hearing Sophie's voice for the first time, and I've heard Chris before, but sorry if I siingled anyone out, but Sophie, your ideas are awesome. Ok, before I give away what she said, which is brilliant in itself, let's see what those of us who watched the show actually thought, and for those that didn't see the podcast, see what you think. I'll tell you what, it was completely awesome. You did a good job guys. Beth Sent from my iPod From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Sun Feb 10 21:42:42 2013 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:42:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] complements for Chris and Sophie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62441.68.41.62.184.1360532562.squirrel@lavabit.com> Hi all, I watched the podcast today on itunes, and yes i do agree with Beth, very well done. I think more stuff like this should be happening. I can tell you that some students in my school have ben treeting me differently now sence seeing that. Good job Chris and Sophie. 73 kd8qiq Jeff Crouch From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Sun Feb 10 22:53:27 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:53:27 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] complements for Chris and Sophie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where can I hear it? Please send me the link, (I don't have ITunes.) Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Beth Taurasi [denverqueen1107 at comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 3:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] complements for Chris and Sophie Hi all, just wanted to put it out there that Chris and Sophie did a good job on the Nick News podcast. If either of you want to supply a link to it for those that didn't watch the show on TV or want to see the podcast, feel free to do it. I will tell you guys right now, the show was awesome, and I loved how all of the students, not just the ones on this list, represented the blind community with pride. We should be proud of who we are, and for those of us who didn't get to see the podcast, I don't want to give too much away, but those students on the list who did, please supply the link to the podcast on list so that those who didn't see the show might be able to keep it in mind and watch. I had the privilege of hearing Sophie's voice for the first time, and I've heard Chris before, but sorry if I siingled anyone out, but Sophie, your ideas are awesome. Ok, before I give away what she said, which is brilliant in itself, let's see what those of us who watched the show actually thought, and for those that didn't see the podcast, see what you think. I'll tell you what, it was completely awesome. You did a good job guys. Beth Sent from my iPod _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Sun Feb 10 23:18:17 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:18:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Syndero Group Seeing Eye I-Phone App Message-ID: Hi Is there any news on when the Syndero turn-by-turn GPS I-Phone app will be released? I heard that it would be released at some point soon, and it will give turn-by-turn directions like the Trekker and probably like the Syndero GPS for the Braille Note, which I haven’t used but it’s probably similar to the Trekker. Ian From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Feb 10 23:23:37 2013 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (William O'donnell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:23:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LearningAlly: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good evening all, I apologize for abruptly changing the subject. However, a while ago, we were discussing Learning Ally in a long thread. I am finding, that when I read the books and I want to reference prior information on a page, while using the app on a IOS device or Mac, I can not go back unless I start at the beginning of the page. What a bad setting, the old listening tool on the PC used to let you do this. Wonder who was the genius with such a great idea! Notice my extreme sarcasm. It seems almost that this function would not be overlooked; however, it is and needs to be rectified. People will waist a lot of time when they need to record data from a person reading very fast, when they have to keep listening to information they do not need. Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Beth Taurasi wrote: > Hi all, just wanted to put it out there that Chris and Sophie did a good job on the Nick News podcast. If either of you want to supply a link to it for those that didn't watch the show on TV or want to see the podcast, feel free to do it. I will tell you guys right now, the show was awesome, and I loved how all of the students, not just the ones on this list, represented the blind community with pride. We should be proud of who we are, and for those of us who didn't get to see the podcast, I don't want to give too much away, but those students on the list who did, please supply the link to the podcast on list so that those who didn't see the show might be able to keep it in mind and watch. I had the privilege of hearing Sophie's voice for the first time, and I've heard Chris before, but sorry if I siingled anyone out, but Sophie, your ideas are awesome. Ok, before I give away what she said, which is brilliant in itself, let's see what those of us who watched the show actually thought, and for those that didn't see the podcast, see what you think. I'll tell you what, it was completely awesome. You did a good job guys. > Beth > Sent from my iPod > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 23:26:45 2013 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:26:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Syndero Group Seeing Eye I-Phone App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <897CAE09-F7D8-4811-BB93-645868451591@gmail.com> Possibly later this month Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2013, at 6:18 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > Hi > Is there any news on when the Syndero turn-by-turn GPS I-Phone app will be released? I heard that it would be released at some point soon, and it will give turn-by-turn directions like the Trekker and probably like the Syndero GPS for the Braille Note, which I haven’t used but it’s probably similar to the Trekker. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From Vyingling at nfb.org Mon Feb 11 14:03:15 2013 From: Vyingling at nfb.org (Yingling, Valerie) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:03:15 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Students needed to help test Courseload's new e-textbook application Message-ID: <2E77F7FE85FE99418761668AE1AA779E118A8129@SN2PRD0710MB382.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> The NFB is recruiting volunteers from the following schools to test Courseload's new e-textbook application for accessibility features: * Indiana University * University of Virginia * Penn State University * Ball State University * University of California, Berkeley If you are a student at one of these schools and are proficient with screen reading software, please consider helping with this important project. If you are interested in being a tester or have additional questions, contact me at Vyingling at nfb.org. Thanks, Valerie Valerie Yingling Paralegal National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314 ext. 2440 Fax: 410-659-5129 E-mail: Vyingling at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 16:31:38 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:31:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading and Protected View Message-ID: Hey guys, I've got an issue that's been going on for awhile. Every time I download a document (powerpoint, excel spreadsheet, word document, etc.), it opens in protected view. In powerpoint and excel, I can click enable editing on my own, but in word, it doesn't let me. Is there a way to change the settings so downloaded files don't come through as in protecgted view? This issue kept me from participating in practice during class today, so definitely a problem, and any help that you can give would be great. Thanks, Jewel From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 19:10:44 2013 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:10:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading and Protected View In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, This is a security feature of MS Office 2010, which unfortunately turned out to be quite annoying for most users. Thankfully there is a relatively simple solution, although you will have to implement it for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint separately. Go to the Options tab for each of the Office programs, arrow down to Trust Center in the Categories combo box, then tab over to the Trust Center Settings button and press Enter. You will be presented with another Categories combo box, arrow down to Protected View, then tab over to find the checkbox labeled "Enabled Protected View for Files Originating from the Internet" and uncheck it. While you are at it, you might want to turn off the "Enable Protected View for Email attachments" feature too since that also tends to create more problems than it's worth. Hope this helps and let me know if I need to clarify any part of these instructions! Best, Katie On 2/11/13, Jewel wrote: > Hey guys, > I've got an issue that's been going on for awhile. Every time I > download a document (powerpoint, excel spreadsheet, word document, > etc.), it opens in protected view. In powerpoint and excel, I can > click enable editing on my own, but in word, it doesn't let me. Is > there a way to change the settings so downloaded files don't come > through as in protecgted view? This issue kept me from participating > in practice during class today, so definitely a problem, and any help > that you can give would be great. > > Thanks, > Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 19:33:22 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:33:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading and Protected View In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel and Katie, I didn't know about the process Katie listed earlier, but I may have an easier solution. For some reason all my documents I have to open from Sakai like to pop up in protected mode, so here's what I've been doing. I select all, copy, and paste everything in a new document. It's ridiculously easy, but it works perfectly and takes seconds to do. As long as you just have to email or upload a file with the answers to a web site to turn it in you shouldn't have any problems with using a different document than the original. Hope this helps. On 2/11/13, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi Jewel, > > This is a security feature of MS Office 2010, which unfortunately > turned out to be quite annoying for most users. Thankfully there is a > relatively simple solution, although you will have to implement it for > Word, Excel, and PowerPoint separately. Go to the Options tab for each > of the Office programs, arrow down to Trust Center in the Categories > combo box, then tab over to the Trust Center Settings button and press > Enter. You will be presented with another Categories combo box, arrow > down to Protected View, then tab over to find the checkbox labeled > "Enabled Protected View for Files Originating from the Internet" and > uncheck it. While you are at it, you might want to turn off the > "Enable Protected View for Email attachments" feature too since that > also tends to create more problems than it's worth. Hope this helps > and let me know if I need to clarify any part of these instructions! > > Best, > Katie > > > On 2/11/13, Jewel wrote: >> Hey guys, >> I've got an issue that's been going on for awhile. Every time I >> download a document (powerpoint, excel spreadsheet, word document, >> etc.), it opens in protected view. In powerpoint and excel, I can >> click enable editing on my own, but in word, it doesn't let me. Is >> there a way to change the settings so downloaded files don't come >> through as in protecgted view? This issue kept me from participating >> in practice during class today, so definitely a problem, and any help >> that you can give would be great. >> >> Thanks, >> Jewel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 02:48:21 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:48:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: <6DDF3B45A53D4A2C83361D69AF09B47A@OwnerPC> <2523BACE-7A76-4FEF-8637-4B6632DEC57D@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130207105317.01ef5140@comcast.net> <010e01ce059b$368bbb80$a3a33280$@gmail.com> <2ED6CD4F63644E51B5B1DD29D44DACB7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ari, Let me see if I can answer some of your questions. I was just talking about testing in my previous emails, but you're right that outside of that there are things in which blind students need a little help across the board. Our courses change every three and a half months or so too. My college's fall semester goes from late August through mid December, then we have a month off for winter break, then the spring semester lasts mid January through late April or Early May. In the U.S. most vocational rehab agencies, county educational centers, or blindness organizations offer training from Orientation and Mobility specialists. This past summer I worked with an Orientation and Mobility specialist on getting around the campus. He was able to teach me where my buildings were, how the cafeterias were set up, where my dorm room was, and he even made sure I knew which buttons to use to work the industrial laundry machines and that my mailbox got a braille label on it so I could find it in the mail room. A few days before this semester he came up to campus again and we spent a few hours finding my new classrooms and doing a little practice to make sure I knew where I was going. Exams are a little different than typical tests or quizzes. I schedule all but 2 of my exams to be taken in the testing center, and the only reason I don't schedule those two is because they're for music classes and require specail software that I have on my personal laptop and the testing center does not have. The way it works at my university is two weeks before midterm and final exams you have to schedule time in the testing center on an online form. The form generates an email to you and the professor for your class which tells the professor how to get their exam to the disabilities office, what accomodations the student has been approved to receive, etc. Ideally you should schedule your test for the same start time as your class so that you're not taking the test at a different time, but sometimes you do have to move exams around and schedule different times, like if you're scheduled to take more than 3 exams during one day they'll allow you to move one with that instructor's approval. The main benefits of scheduling exams to be taken in the testing center are that you don't have to get up and move when the class lets out if you still need more time, you have access to disabilities office staff if something should go wrong with the technology, and you get to test in a distraction-reduced setting. Yes, some disability offices, like Julie's, are pretty great about making sure materials are accessible online. You're right that it is important to take the greater concerns of people who aren't able to have these opportunities into account. For some they're not even worried about college or studying because they're too busy trying to figure out how they're going to get their next meal. I think that sometimes as students we tend to get wrapped up in our own work and forget what's outside the bubbles of our universities a little bit. Thanks for the reminder. On 2/9/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Oh that's how we do with normal tests, we have to arrange them with > the unit and the professors. With exams its different because I think > the question papers all go to an office and then they distribute them, > we don't have to make arrangements there. I'm not sure how it works in > other unis here though, this might just be a Wits thing. > Ari > > On 2/9/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Ari, >> Exams are taken outside class in a supervised setting; that is why >> they're >> scheduled in advance; they have to ensure they have space for you as >> other >> disabled students take exams outside class too. >> >> Exams are often taken in a testing center where other exams placement >> tests >> >> are given or in a room of the disability office. >> So that is why they are scheduled in advance. You have to ensure your >> professor gave the disability office or testing center the test and they >> are >> >> ready for you to take it. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ari Damoulakis >> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:24 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >> >> Yes Kaiti, I think for the most part if it can be done on its own, >> then try do it. Unfortunately there are often times and for so many >> things one has to ask help from students and people that where it is >> possible you have to try do what you can on your own. Take me for >> example. I have another problem where I have to often ask students to >> help me to the different classes, because they change nearly every 3 >> months. Even if I know my way to a building, or how to get to the >> floor of the class, it gets difficult sometimes to try find it. OK, I >> have a terrible sense of direction, but it is even when the campus is >> huge and all of a sudden you have class in some random building you >> have no idea where it is. I'm interested to know how you guys get to >> different classes, the strategies you use. I know my way around the >> main places I normally go, cafeteria, my department, the unit, but >> navigating more widely I just don't know how to handle. >> I'm quite interested, you say you have to schedule your exams, do you >> write them at the same time as other students, or why is it something >> you have to arrange with your professors? I'm not talking about >> quizzes, you were saying something about mid-terms, so I'm just >> curious to know how it works there. Here we write them at the same >> time, and we write in the disability office. >> From what I gather, the problem with moodle is, its not moodle itself >> that might be inaccessible. It is more the fact that people who design >> the content that goes on moodle design it in an inaccessible way. >> Wow Julie, you are very lucky to have such a great disability office. >> That's really great. Unfortunately here it does work the other way >> round like you were explaining, although I suppose its more a matter >> of the people who design stuff here not really communicating or >> worrying about accessibility, so they don't consult with the >> disability office, its great that there they ask for input. Here >> unfortunately it is more the case of that disabled people, especially >> the blind are such a small minority that the easiest solutions are >> looked at. >> Actually, while I'm on the topic of blind advocacy, I just want to >> write and explain something here which might be going a bit off-topic, >> but I do think its very important and interesting to learn about >> circumstances of blind people in different countries. >> We do have advocacy organisations here, but unfortunately due to >> circumstances we here can never really unite into as strong >> organisations as RNIB and NFB to fight as much for accessibility or >> adjustments as what you guys can. >> This is unfortunately because the circumstances here for blind people >> are so divided and in much more desperate conditions. >> Yes I often complain about not being able to use diagrams or the lack >> of resources or help that I have or can get, but I am actually >> incredibly fortunate and grateful for the opportunity to study that I >> have, and one must just try make the best of it. >> Why I'm saying this is, the main reason why we can't really advocate >> for more advanced services here is because our organisations and we >> ourselves rather have a duty and must rather help the blind here who >> are really in poverty. >> I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of the blind here, it is >> basically about a struggle for survival and to survive. >> Many blind people here who don't have the opportunities I've been >> fortunate to have often spend their days trying to play music outside >> shops, selling things at street lights, or even begging just to try >> get something to survive and live. Some of them don't even have the >> dignity of being able to have a propper cane, they often use wooden >> sticks or even tree branches. We definitely rather have a duty to help >> these people first before we can even begin to worry about other >> things. >> I didn't say all this to try guilt-trip anyone or anything like that. >> The point I think I'm trying to make is, yes there are some >> difficulties in studying and being able to do some things, but when we >> realise the opportunities we have we must try our best because we are >> so lucky to have these opportunities, and we must really be greatful >> for them. So I encourage everyone to study as hard as you can, and to >> realise how wonderful it is to be able to learn and read about things. >> I just hope all of you who I've met on the list so far will be lucky >> to get a job one day. >> Ari >> On 2/8/13, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> I agree with Kaiti here. I believe that an access office is a place >>> where we can find the tools to be able to take our classes as >>> independently as possible. I don't think that means never using a >>> reader or using human help for things, but I do think it means that we >>> (as students) participate in our classes as fully as sighted students >>> in all ways possible. >>> >>> Our assistive tech specialist is working to make forms on the >>> graduation page accessible. I am helping her by testing different >>> forms with jaws and trying to explain why they do not work. Someone >>> came into her office a while back, and when we explained about this >>> new project, she asked why it was necessary that these forms be >>> accessible since someone could easily read me the form and fill it out >>> for me. The assistive tech person gave the best answer. She said >>> that it's not about whether or not someone could help me; it's about >>> doing things independently and being able to access the same material >>> and fill it out the same as everyone else. I wanted to applaud her. >>> :) >>> >>> Unfortunately, testing is such a gray area that you could strive to be >>> independent all day long, but if, for example, you are reading a >>> foreign language document that jaws isn't pronouncing in the language, >>> your test is going to take longer. There is just no definite answer >>> here. >>> >>> On 2/7/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Chris and all, >>>> >>>> Very good point. I think that was forgotten and it is a very good >>>> point to consider. >>>> >>>> Ari: To give more of an explanation my school uses a system called >>>> Isidore, although it's just a version of Sakai (named after the patron >>>> saint of learning, school children, and books to be clever). Each of >>>> my courses has it's own web site. If a professor for my psych class >>>> assigns a quiz I would go to the psych web site, go to a section >>>> called tests and quizzes, and open the test that the professor has >>>> uploaded to Isidore. Usually it's basic text with radio buttons, >>>> checkboxes, and edit fields for entering answers. Once I hit the >>>> submit button the professor has access to my answers and can grade >>>> them. As an added bonus, once they've graded my test and uploaded it >>>> to another section of the site called the gradebook I can see my score >>>> on my test as well as all my other assignments. I haven't had >>>> experience with Moodle, but I'm assuming that it's pretty similar to >>>> Sakai or Blackboard. It's a shame it's not accessible, but it's not >>>> in as wide use as Blackboard and other systems like it so it may not >>>> have been tested for accessibility. Blackboard itself didn't become >>>> accessible till a few years ago when a bunch of schools and blindness >>>> organizations pushed for it. You're right that it's part of the >>>> digital age, but that's why I like it; it's quick, convenient, and I >>>> can do it independently. I hope this gives you an idea of what it's >>>> like. >>>> >>>> Digressing back to my previous email though, I think it's important to >>>> consider when taking help is appropriate even if it is always at our >>>> disposal. I think having the mindset that you could just have someone >>>> else do something for you because you can't see it can be a >>>> double-edged sword; on the one hand, it's great to have that assurance >>>> because if you really do need help due to true accessibility issues >>>> than the help is there, but when JAWS works and there's simple text >>>> and good web code, it's really not necessary. I think training people >>>> to assume you need help even when you could do something yourself may >>>> cause them to not truly understand what is an accessibility issue and >>>> what is not. It also sends the wrong message and makes them think >>>> that blind people are needier than we really are, but that's just my >>>> take on it. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>> Kaiti and all, >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind that Ari lives in South Africa. I don't know what (if >>>>> any) differences there are in the way tests are taken in South Africa >>>>> when >>>>> compared with our country. Ari, this may be something you would be >>>>> able >>>>> to >>>>> give insight into. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>> Shelton >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:06 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>> >>>>> Ari, >>>>> >>>>> Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider. >>>>> I love online test-taking because it gives me independence. I don't >>>>> have >>>>> to >>>>> schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the >>>>> information >>>>> and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a take-home >>>>> quiz. >>>>> I guess the amount of accessibility your college provides would be a >>>>> variable of consideration here, but if they do a decent job and the >>>>> Sakai >>>>> or >>>>> blackboard site you're using has code that follows basic accessibility >>>>> guidelines there shouldn't be anything visual that would serve as an >>>>> obstacle to keep you from doing your work on your own. >>>>> >>>>> Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to >>>>> sound >>>>> harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but I >>>>> guess >>>>> it's a matter of philosophy too. I personally don't like to ask other >>>>> people for help unless I truly do need it. I'm not one of those >>>>> people >>>>> who >>>>> dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do like to do >>>>> everything >>>>> I >>>>> can independently and don't see the necessity of getting another >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> help you take your test. To me it feels like that was something I >>>>> needed >>>>> in >>>>> elementary or middle school but now as a college student I don't need >>>>> that >>>>> anymore. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>> Good morning, Ari, >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I reject all that On-line test taking, >>>>>> preferring >>>>>> instead human inner action. I don't feel it saying anything less of >>>>>> me >>>>>> to call on my fellllow humans to, in the absence of my own visual >>>>>> capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me. >>>>>> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater >>>>>> how? >>>>>> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind calling on my fellow >>>>>> humans to do the ocular seeing for me, just as I would be totall >>>>>> obliged if another person needed me to fulfill some sensual imput >>>>>> that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it >>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the >>>>>>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they >>>>>>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the >>>>>>> online >>>>>>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to >>>>>>> see >>>>>>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the >>>>>>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't >>>>>>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in >>>>>>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor. >>>>>>>Ari >>>>>>>Ari >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> > Kirt, >>>>>>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R >>>>>>> > for radio buttons. >>>>>>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying >>>>>>> > is >>>>>>> > there are four buttons for four choices per answer. >>>>>>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line >>>>>>> by line to select my choice. I >>>>>>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just >>>>>>> > take >>>>>>> > me to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its >>>>>>> > hard to explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button >>>>>>> > goes with each answer. >>>>>>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then >>>>>>> > read the answer but its not like that. >>>>>>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of >>>>>>> > the >>>>>>> > quiz with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what >>>>>>> > heading level it is, I can use the number heading for the next >>>>>>> > ones; for instance, 3 for heading 3. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to >>>>>>> > say question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going >>>>>>> > line by line through the questions. Maybe I should do that. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm >>>>>>> hoping to get used to it and find >>>>>>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be >>>>>>> > granted if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me >>>>>>> > extra time in class quizzes though. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor. >>>>>>> > Ashley >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> > From: Kirt >>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM >>>>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Ashley, >>>>>>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite >>>>>>> > to >>>>>>> > be the case in my personal experiences with jaws. You can press >>>>>>> > are, from the start of the page, to go directly to the first radio >>>>>>> > button on the first question. It will save you a whole bunch of >>>>>>> > arrowing down. And, at least for me, once I figured out how Jaws >>>>>>> Associates radio buttons with particular >>>>>>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm >>>>>>> taking, it's been really easy to just >>>>>>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz. Hopefully, I am making >>>>>>> > sense. >>>>>>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra >>>>>>> > time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by >>>>>>> > somebody else. >>>>>>> > If >>>>>>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of >>>>>>> > them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, >>>>>>> > I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than >>>>>>> many sided people read. While I >>>>>>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely >>>>>>> > an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't >>>>>>> > have. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Hi Arielle, >>>>>>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could >>>>>>> >> send a bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow. >>>>>>> >> I cannot remember whether I used extended time all the time in >>>>>>> >> high school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision >>>>>>> >> teacher, or TVI as >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments >>>>>>> >> I needed >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time >>>>>>> >> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my >>>>>>> >> TVI >>>>>>> >> sort of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I think ideally that extended time and accomodations should be >>>>>>> >> given on a >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class >>>>>>> >> and not others. >>>>>>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations >>>>>>> >> across the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all >>>>>>> >> professors. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of the >>>>>>> >> medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since >>>>>>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it. >>>>>>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for >>>>>>> >> maybe math if you beg for it. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its >>>>>>> >> multiple >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test >>>>>>> >> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again >>>>>>> >> to pic the best answer. >>>>>>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go >>>>>>> >> line by line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the >>>>>>> >> right answer. >>>>>>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to >>>>>>> >> ensure they circled the right one. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes >>>>>>> >> because I need to scroll back up to check my answers. >>>>>>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes with what answer. I >>>>>>> >> wish >>>>>>> >> the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the same >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that. >>>>>>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn >>>>>>> >> quiz begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> heading to help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't >>>>>>> >> help too much. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay >>>>>>> >> formats take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But >>>>>>> >> its there in the many cases I do need it. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Now, I just hope I can get >>>>>>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually >>>>>>> >> changed for me to get extended time. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM >>>>>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Hi all, >>>>>>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking >>>>>>> >> about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and >>>>>>> >> whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is >>>>>>> >> intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or >>>>>>> >> technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might >>>>>>> >> make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an >>>>>>> >> essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to >>>>>>> >> repeat >>>>>>> >> things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems >>>>>>> >> appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files >>>>>>> >> not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time >>>>>>> >> is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for >>>>>>> >> Braille >>>>> or large print tests. >>>>>>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions >>>>>>> >> and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't >>>>>>> >> fully understand the material I was being tested on. This >>>>>>> >> happened >>>>>>> >> a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have >>>>>>> >> always >>>>>>> >> been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. >>>>>>> >> So >>>>>>> >> I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I >>>>>>> >> didn't >>>>>>> >> understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't >>>>>>> >> think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance >>>>>>> >> or >>>>>>> >> my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up >>>>>>> >> the >>>>>>> >> real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile >>>>>>> >> images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have >>>>>>> >> become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high >>>>>>> >> school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are >>>>>>> >> automatically granted double time across the board, it allows >>>>>>> >> teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds >>>>>>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille >>>>>>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to >>>>>>> >> *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while >>>>>>> >> they >>>>>>> >> are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but >>>>>>> >> granting >>>>>>> >> it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I >>>>>>> >> also question the implication that blind students just do things >>>>>>> >> slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just >>>>>>> >> let >>>>>>> >> them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time >>>>>>> >> is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> me >>>>> as I approach graduation and employment myself. >>>>>>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am >>>>>>> >> just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is >>>>>>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or >>>>>>> >> not >>>>>>> >> it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful >>>>>>> >> decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to >>>>>>> >> use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should >>>>>>> >> also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time >>>>>>> >> and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so >>>>>>> >> that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness >>>>>>> >> with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, >>>>>>> >> but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is >>>>>>> >> something that can be addressed with training and practice and >>>>>>> >> addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, >>>>>>> >> and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd >>>>>>> >> colleagues. >>>>>>> >> Best, >>>>>>> >> Arielle >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> > for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> > for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast >>>>>>>.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National >>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, >>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Feb 12 02:54:03 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:54:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] LearningAlly: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130211185121.01ed4ee0@comcast.net> See the fallout of erasing needs of the population for whom RFB was initially conceived! Car At 03:23 PM 2/10/2013, William O'donnell wrote: >Good evening all, >I apologize for abruptly changing the subject. However, a while >ago, we were discussing Learning Ally in a long thread. >I am finding, that when I read the books and I want to reference >prior information on a page, while using the app on a IOS device or >Mac, I can not go back unless I start at the beginning of the >page. What a bad setting, the old listening tool on the PC used to >let you do this. Wonder who was the genius with such a great >idea! Notice my extreme sarcasm. It seems almost that this >function would not be overlooked; however, it is and needs to be >rectified. People will waist a lot of time when they need to record >data from a person reading very fast, when they have to keep >listening to information they do not need. > > >Sent from my iPad > >On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Beth Taurasi wrote: > > > Hi all, just wanted to put it out there that Chris and Sophie did > a good job on the Nick News podcast. If either of you want to > supply a link to it for those that didn't watch the show on TV or > want to see the podcast, feel free to do it. I will tell you guys > right now, the show was awesome, and I loved how all of the > students, not just the ones on this list, represented the blind > community with pride. We should be proud of who we are, and for > those of us who didn't get to see the podcast, I don't want to give > too much away, but those students on the list who did, please > supply the link to the podcast on list so that those who didn't see > the show might be able to keep it in mind and watch. I had the > privilege of hearing Sophie's voice for the first time, and I've > heard Chris before, but sorry if I siingled anyone out, but Sophie, > your ideas are awesome. Ok, before I give away what she said, which > is brilliant in itself, let's see what those of us who watched the > show actually thought, and for those that didn't see the podcast, > see what you think. I'll tell you what, it was completely awesome. > You did a good job guys. > > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 19:44:39 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:44:39 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Message-ID: <000a01ce0959$6648f600$32dae200$@com> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she called the relationship off because there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. Loosing my grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. My friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 19:54:53 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 13:54:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. References: <000a01ce0959$6648f600$32dae200$@com> Message-ID: <4B926E4B877A444DB98A0E053529DF42@Gloria> Hi, I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar and > am > unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that this may be > off > the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. I just got out of > a > relationship. It was a long distance one whare she lives in Michigan and > I > in California. We started talking at the beginning of January right after > new years. We didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really > well. About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come > out > there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most > likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care > facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she > bought > the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about > the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she called > the relationship off because there were some symptoms which were rather > minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is > now > tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind you she doesn't know > this > guy and she didn't know me either but I feel like we had something. I > feel > like my emotions were played with and I'm really hurt. I was just > wondering > if any of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going > through a lot of crying spells. During this time on January 10th I lost > my > grandma. She was 90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the > evening of the tenth. So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after > another. Loosing my grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I > could love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well and > she > found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe if any of > you > want to we could talk off list. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells and sometimes I need help through them. My friends, which by the > way > I don't have a lot of I feel like they may not be able to understand > what's > going on. I feel like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really > really > hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 19:55:34 2013 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah Meeks) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:55:34 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <000a01ce0959$6648f600$32dae200$@com> References: <000a01ce0959$6648f600$32dae200$@com> Message-ID: <26570FD3-A115-42B5-92B2-0C1A20438C87@gmail.com> I also have bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety attacks, and I get really angry really easily. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 12, 2013, at 11:44 AM, "Dave Webster" wrote: > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar and am > unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that this may be off > the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. I just got out of a > relationship. It was a long distance one whare she lives in Michigan and I > in California. We started talking at the beginning of January right after > new years. We didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really > well. About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come out > there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most > likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care > facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought > the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about > the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she called > the relationship off because there were some symptoms which were rather > minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now > tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind you she doesn't know this > guy and she didn't know me either but I feel like we had something. I feel > like my emotions were played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering > if any of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going > through a lot of crying spells. During this time on January 10th I lost my > grandma. She was 90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the > evening of the tenth. So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after > another. Loosing my grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I > could love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well and she > found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe if any of you > want to we could talk off list. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells and sometimes I need help through them. My friends, which by the way > I don't have a lot of I feel like they may not be able to understand what's > going on. I feel like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really > hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 20:05:37 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:05:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using Moodel on IPhone 4S Message-ID: <3592045B0C31439299808A658C897C94@acerd37f251f21> Hi all, Has anyone tried to access Moodel with an IPhone? Is it relatively accessible with Voiceover? Also, is there a way to put assignment files, such as MS Word files on your phone and then upload them to Moodel from the phone? I am just asking because I am going somewhere where there is no internet access out of town, so I want to see if the IPhone can be a viable option for uploading assignments until I get Internet for my computer, since my IPhone 4S plan would have unlimited data on it. Thank you, Misty From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 22:13:11 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <4B926E4B877A444DB98A0E053529DF42@Gloria> References: <000a01ce0959$6648f600$32dae200$@com> <4B926E4B877A444DB98A0E053529DF42@Gloria> Message-ID: <000001ce096e$266a8250$733f86f0$@com> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi, I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 22:15:34 2013 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Message-ID: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones they never work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Webster" References: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <563756B8-3025-4E8B-82BA-4B64D50C3481@gmail.com> relationships are a very complicated topic. I can talk to both of you off list about that to make sure we find a solution to whatever problems you may feel you have. I have helped several families across south america, so it will be my pleasure to help anyone in need here as well. mauricio On Feb 12, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Sarah wrote: > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys can talk and > figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try doing something > that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 23:28:22 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:28:22 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <563756B8-3025-4E8B-82BA-4B64D50C3481@gmail.com> References: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> <563756B8-3025-4E8B-82BA-4B64D50C3481@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000101ce0978$a79023d0$f6b06b70$@com> Thanks. I'm not sure if Terri would want to do that. I'll see. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio Almeida Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 2:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. relationships are a very complicated topic. I can talk to both of you off list about that to make sure we find a solution to whatever problems you may feel you have. I have helped several families across south america, so it will be my pleasure to help anyone in need here as well. mauricio On Feb 12, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Sarah wrote: > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. > Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From dwebster125 at gmail.com Tue Feb 12 23:29:56 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:29:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> References: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000201ce0978$df73b230$9e5b1690$@com> I know. I thought this would work. We didn't mean to hit it off the way we did. It just happened. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 2:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones they never work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Webster" References: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> <000201ce0978$df73b230$9e5b1690$@com> Message-ID: she shouldn't be the priority of your decisions, however. Should you feel you want to speak about it, goa head and make yourself heard. sincerely, mauricio On Feb 12, 2013, at 6:29 PM, "Dave Webster" wrote: > I know. I thought this would work. We didn't mean to hit it off the way we > did. It just happened. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 2:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones they > never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys can talk > and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try doing > something that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar and > am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that this may be > off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare she > lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the beginning > of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we started to hit > it off really really well. About a week or so later she bought plane > tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out > there then I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live > in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks > probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having > doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears > as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few > days later she called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with and I'm > really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to could help me > through this. I've been going through a lot of crying spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and had > bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and did > love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well and > she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going through a > lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may not > be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good enough > for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 00:56:02 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:56:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Message-ID: <511ae4a8.c7b6320a.7879.ffffae7f@mx.google.com> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. Sincerely, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Message-ID: Sophie, Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation ship? Thanks, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. Sincerely, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah References: <511ae4a8.c7b6320a.7879.ffffae7f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, Regarding long distance relationships, I think that's a highly personal preference. For some people, it works out well, for others, like myself, I can't imagine it working at all, particularly if the person I was dating lived in another country. In my opinion, relationships are a delicate balance of physical, emotional and spiritual aspects. If one of these is missing or severely limited, the relationship becomes restricted and stagnant. Having said that, distance definitely is not always a factor in how or why relationships suffer. But if you only talk on the phone, I can't help but think you have nothing more than a very close friendship which could potentially evolve into something deeper if one of you picks up and moves to be with the other. But making that kind of sacrifice, leaving friends and family, culture and comfort, certainly isn't a decision that most people take lightly, nor should it be. If two people truly love each other, that sacrifice has to be made by one of them. But it could just as easily backfire and lead to resentment and loss, no matter how strong their love is. However, maybe if you're only in high school, this doesn't matter to you, and you're content with the way things are. Perhaps keeping a relationship at half the world's length helps with some of the awkwardness, sexual temptations, and uncertainty associated with adolescent relationships. When I was a little younger, I know the idea of a long-distance relationship seemed a lot more feasible than it does now that I'm 23. About a year ago, I came face to face with my convictions in a big way. I met someone online through a game we both played at the time. He's from the Philippines, and we hit it off well. He was a bit older, but not by a ridiculous amount, so I didn't care about that. We seemed to be on the same level, mentally and emotionally; we had similar taste in music, which is a huge plus for me since I spend a good portion of my life talking about music; we gave each other advice with personal problems; we began to scratch the surface of getting to know each other. But, in those few months that we talked, I was constantly waging war within myself. Since we only chatted through text, how was I to know that he was who he appeared to be? Even if we had used Skype, I'm not sure I would have been completely convinced. A person's voice tells a thousand stories, even if the words never actually come to pass; the stories that are told are subtle signals that prove a person's trustworthiness and personality. It's all in how they speak, their tone, and how they present themselves. Some would call this judgmental, but I've learned to trust my instincts in this regard. If I hear a person speak for the first time, and alarm bells go off in my head, I now know to be careful and to keep my distance, because the few times I've ignored the warnings my soul sent out, I ended up getting hurt and violated. So, deprived of even this small comfort, I drove myself nearly insane thinking of the what if's. Playing every possible scenario over and over again in my mind of who he was. My dreams were permeated by images of who I wanted him to be. In my dreams, he was everything I wanted in a boyfriend and more. And when I woke up in the morning, I felt cold, hollow, and cheap. Finally, I just turned tail and ran. I offered no explanation. I simply stopped talking to him. I stopped playing the game I had previously loved where we met. Too many reminders, and besides, I would surely run into him there. He never did try to contact me. I sometimes wonder if perhaps he felt the same way, although I don't believe in things like hope, so I try not to think of that. But you know what? Even though it's been almost a year since I last spoke to him, I still think of him a lot. I still miss him. I still wonder what might have been, if he weren't so hopelessly out of reach. I think of scenarios, like meeting him at a bar where his band played, or what it would be like to travel to his country, to absorb the culture and get to know a world vastly different from the often mundane drabness of my own. If we had hooked up locally, I'm positive I would have loved him. Who can tell what he thought? I since found out he was dating someone through a friend who also played the online game we all played, and I took that like it was a direct blow to my heart. That's what scares me the most. I'm not usually so dramatic. Cautious to the point of paranoia, yes. But I've never completely lost it over the illusion of someone who might not even exist before. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Long distance relationships are definitely not for me. On the other hand, my sister is in one, and she seems happy enough with it. Of course, they're both sighted, which may or may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. He's also, at least, a US citizen, which makes it easier. He's been here several times, and he's a perfectly nice guy. I wish them both the best, and I'm glad it's working out for them. Which brings me back to my main point: if a long distance relationship is in the cards for you, take it for all it's worth. If it isn't...well, don't let trendsetters tell you that you're technologically backward or prejudiced. It is what it is. It's just another preference in the range of acceptable human behavior in relationships. On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives > in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just > chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other > since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's > feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate > relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. > > Sincerely, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sarah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and > figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try > doing something > that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know > that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking > at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to > see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay > and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew > this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later > she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It > turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but > I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with > and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to > could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the > tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Wed Feb 13 03:09:15 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 03:09:15 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511ae4a8.c7b6320a.7879.ffffae7f@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: Hi Desiree! As usual, great post! I'd rather have a relationship with someone locally, and I'd rather meet them in person, as opposed to online. I know some people have success with online dating, but there are also disadvantages. We've discussed this stuff to death on here before. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi, Regarding long distance relationships, I think that's a highly personal preference. For some people, it works out well, for others, like myself, I can't imagine it working at all, particularly if the person I was dating lived in another country. In my opinion, relationships are a delicate balance of physical, emotional and spiritual aspects. If one of these is missing or severely limited, the relationship becomes restricted and stagnant. Having said that, distance definitely is not always a factor in how or why relationships suffer. But if you only talk on the phone, I can't help but think you have nothing more than a very close friendship which could potentially evolve into something deeper if one of you picks up and moves to be with the other. But making that kind of sacrifice, leaving friends and family, culture and comfort, certainly isn't a decision that most people take lightly, nor should it be. If two people truly love each other, that sacrifice has to be made by one of them. But it could just as easily backfire and lead to resentment and loss, no matter how strong their love is. However, maybe if you're only in high school, this doesn't matter to you, and you're content with the way things are. Perhaps keeping a relationship at half the world's length helps with some of the awkwardness, sexual temptations, and uncertainty associated with adolescent relationships. When I was a little younger, I know the idea of a long-distance relationship seemed a lot more feasible than it does now that I'm 23. About a year ago, I came face to face with my convictions in a big way. I met someone online through a game we both played at the time. He's from the Philippines, and we hit it off well. He was a bit older, but not by a ridiculous amount, so I didn't care about that. We seemed to be on the same level, mentally and emotionally; we had similar taste in music, which is a huge plus for me since I spend a good portion of my life talking about music; we gave each other advice with personal problems; we began to scratch the surface of getting to know each other. But, in those few months that we talked, I was constantly waging war within myself. Since we only chatted through text, how was I to know that he was who he appeared to be? Even if we had used Skype, I'm not sure I would have been completely convinced. A person's voice tells a thousand stories, even if the words never actually come to pass; the stories that are told are subtle signals that prove a person's trustworthiness and personality. It's all in how they speak, their tone, and how they present themselves. Some would call this judgmental, but I've learned to trust my instincts in this regard. If I hear a person speak for the first time, and alarm bells go off in my head, I now know to be careful and to keep my distance, because the few times I've ignored the warnings my soul sent out, I ended up getting hurt and violated. So, deprived of even this small comfort, I drove myself nearly insane thinking of the what if's. Playing every possible scenario over and over again in my mind of who he was. My dreams were permeated by images of who I wanted him to be. In my dreams, he was everything I wanted in a boyfriend and more. And when I woke up in the morning, I felt cold, hollow, and cheap. Finally, I just turned tail and ran. I offered no explanation. I simply stopped talking to him. I stopped playing the game I had previously loved where we met. Too many reminders, and besides, I would surely run into him there. He never did try to contact me. I sometimes wonder if perhaps he felt the same way, although I don't believe in things like hope, so I try not to think of that. But you know what? Even though it's been almost a year since I last spoke to him, I still think of him a lot. I still miss him. I still wonder what might have been, if he weren't so hopelessly out of reach. I think of scenarios, like meeting him at a bar where his band played, or what it would be like to travel to his country, to absorb the culture and get to know a world vastly different from the often mundane drabness of my own. If we had hooked up locally, I'm positive I would have loved him. Who can tell what he thought? I since found out he was dating someone through a friend who also played the online game we all played, and I took that like it was a direct blow to my heart. That's what scares me the most. I'm not usually so dramatic. Cautious to the point of paranoia, yes. But I've never completely lost it over the illusion of someone who might not even exist before. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Long distance relationships are definitely not for me. On the other hand, my sister is in one, and she seems happy enough with it. Of course, they're both sighted, which may or may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. He's also, at least, a US citizen, which makes it easier. He's been here several times, and he's a perfectly nice guy. I wish them both the best, and I'm glad it's working out for them. Which brings me back to my main point: if a long distance relationship is in the cards for you, take it for all it's worth. If it isn't...well, don't let trendsetters tell you that you're technologically backward or prejudiced. It is what it is. It's just another preference in the range of acceptable human behavior in relationships. On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives > in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just > chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other > since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's > feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate > relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. > > Sincerely, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sarah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and > figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try > doing something > that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know > that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking > at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to > see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay > and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew > this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later > she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It > turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but > I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with > and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to > could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the > tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 03:15:04 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:15:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511ae4a8.c7b6320a.7879.ffffae7f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <51F79F8E-3AD2-4A26-AB15-E51B3FDBA6C0@gmail.com> having seen a great deal of stories I can say you're completely right when you speak of preference. For me, the distance is never the main factor as to why a relationship fails, it is merely what puts in evidence all the other concerns an individual might have. A lot of the claims made usually which go against this type of involvement have to do with cheating and mistrust, and those to me are, personally, without much validity, for your boy friend you see everyday could be involved with your cousins without you even realizing it. What I do believe makes a difference though is that distance relationships require a tremendous amount of communication and openness, and this type of relationship collapses much faster without those factors on task and working. it also depends a great deal on who your partner is: For me there have been people with whom I related easily in long distance, while with others it just did not work. Let me point out something I really like of what you say however: You mentioned several times your wish of getting to know him, and your curiosity regarding this experience. I believe that any relationship, regardless of where it is going, must involve personal, non technology related contact, if not immediately, soon after according to the people's capabilities. Sadly, a lot of members in our blind community seem to invalidate the importance of this physical contact because it involves breaking barriers, and this invalidation is what creates a great deal of misconceptions about long distance relationships. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Mauricio On Feb 12, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Regarding long distance relationships, I think that's a highly > personal preference. For some people, it works out well, for others, > like myself, I can't imagine it working at all, particularly if the > person I was dating lived in another country. > In my opinion, relationships are a delicate balance of physical, > emotional and spiritual aspects. If one of these is missing or > severely limited, the relationship becomes restricted and stagnant. > Having said that, distance definitely is not always a factor in how or > why relationships suffer. But if you only talk on the phone, I can't > help but think you have nothing more than a very close friendship > which could potentially evolve into something deeper if one of you > picks up and moves to be with the other. But making that kind of > sacrifice, leaving friends and family, culture and comfort, certainly > isn't a decision that most people take lightly, nor should it be. If > two people truly love each other, that sacrifice has to be made by one > of them. But it could just as easily backfire and lead to resentment > and loss, no matter how strong their love is. > However, maybe if you're only in high school, this doesn't matter to > you, and you're content with the way things are. Perhaps keeping a > relationship at half the world's length helps with some of the > awkwardness, sexual temptations, and uncertainty associated with > adolescent relationships. When I was a little younger, I know the idea > of a long-distance relationship seemed a lot more feasible than it > does now that I'm 23. > About a year ago, I came face to face with my convictions in a big > way. I met someone online through a game we both played at the time. > He's from the Philippines, and we hit it off well. He was a bit older, > but not by a ridiculous amount, so I didn't care about that. We seemed > to be on the same level, mentally and emotionally; we had similar > taste in music, which is a huge plus for me since I spend a good > portion of my life talking about music; we gave each other advice with > personal problems; we began to scratch the surface of getting to know > each other. But, in those few months that we talked, I was constantly > waging war within myself. Since we only chatted through text, how was > I to know that he was who he appeared to be? Even if we had used > Skype, I'm not sure I would have been completely convinced. A person's > voice tells a thousand stories, even if the words never actually come > to pass; the stories that are told are subtle signals that prove a > person's trustworthiness and personality. It's all in how they speak, > their tone, and how they present themselves. Some would call this > judgmental, but I've learned to trust my instincts in this regard. If > I hear a person speak for the first time, and alarm bells go off in my > head, I now know to be careful and to keep my distance, because the > few times I've ignored the warnings my soul sent out, I ended up > getting hurt and violated. So, deprived of even this small comfort, I > drove myself nearly insane thinking of the what if's. Playing every > possible scenario over and over again in my mind of who he was. My > dreams were permeated by images of who I wanted him to be. In my > dreams, he was everything I wanted in a boyfriend and more. And when I > woke up in the morning, I felt cold, hollow, and cheap. Finally, I > just turned tail and ran. I offered no explanation. I simply stopped > talking to him. I stopped playing the game I had previously loved > where we met. Too many reminders, and besides, I would surely run into > him there. He never did try to contact me. I sometimes wonder if > perhaps he felt the same way, although I don't believe in things like > hope, so I try not to think of that. > But you know what? Even though it's been almost a year since I last > spoke to him, I still think of him a lot. I still miss him. I still > wonder what might have been, if he weren't so hopelessly out of reach. > I think of scenarios, like meeting him at a bar where his band played, > or what it would be like to travel to his country, to absorb the > culture and get to know a world vastly different from the often > mundane drabness of my own. If we had hooked up locally, I'm positive > I would have loved him. Who can tell what he thought? I since found > out he was dating someone through a friend who also played the online > game we all played, and I took that like it was a direct blow to my > heart. That's what scares me the most. I'm not usually so dramatic. > Cautious to the point of paranoia, yes. But I've never completely lost > it over the illusion of someone who might not even exist before. > That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Long distance relationships > are definitely not for me. On the other hand, my sister is in one, and > she seems happy enough with it. Of course, they're both sighted, which > may or may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. He's > also, at least, a US citizen, which makes it easier. He's been here > several times, and he's a perfectly nice guy. I wish them both the > best, and I'm glad it's working out for them. Which brings me back to > my main point: if a long distance relationship is in the cards for > you, take it for all it's worth. If it isn't...well, don't let > trendsetters tell you that you're technologically backward or > prejudiced. It is what it is. It's just another preference in the > range of acceptable human behavior in relationships. > > On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >> in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >> chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >> since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >> feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >> relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for >> everyone; it just takes time. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >> ones they never work. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >> talked about >> that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna >> take some >> time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying >> spells. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Hi, >> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >> guy and I >> think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys >> can talk and >> figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try >> doing something >> that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> >> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >> bipolar >> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know >> that >> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >> anyhow. >> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >> whare >> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking >> at the >> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >> but we >> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >> later >> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to >> see >> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay >> and be >> with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >> turns >> out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >> tickets or >> pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the >> relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew >> this >> was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later >> she >> called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >> which >> were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It >> turns >> out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >> Mind >> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but >> I feel >> like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with >> and >> I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to >> could >> help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying >> spells. >> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >> and >> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the >> tenth. >> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >> Loosing my >> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >> and >> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >> well >> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >> Maybe >> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >> through >> a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. >> My >> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >> may >> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >> good >> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 03:15:27 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:15:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> References: <511abf1d.464c420a.20c9.ffffe54f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Saying you hate relationships is quite a strong statement. I've had some pretty bad experiences myself. I made a choice not to date for quite awhile after the turmoil that was my last relationship, and the other stuff that happened which I explained in my previous message. But I was never one of those people who swore off dating entirely. Just as I know it does no good to say you hate a food if you've never tried it, it doesn't really do any good to actively oppose dating. You don't know what will happen, so taking it slow is really the best way to go if you find yourself in a situation where you think you might get into a relationship. My problem has always been letting my emotions carry me away in the beginning of a relationship. I have a tendency to get really caught up in figuring out a new partner. It gives me a rush like nothing else probably ever could. Spending inordinate amounts of time together, trying to crack the other person's code so to speak, is something I have a very hard time resisting. But, after the disaster of my last serious relationship, it took that side of me down a few notches. On 2/12/13, Sarah wrote: > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and > figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try > doing something > that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know > that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking > at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to > see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay > and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew > this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later > she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It > turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but > I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with > and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to > could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the > tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 03:47:32 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:47:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511ae4a8.c7b6320a.7879.ffffae7f@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: <001801ce099c$dc2714e0$94753ea0$@com> Hello listers. Thanks for all of the great posts. I know now that long distance relationships don't usually work. I should have listened to my instincts as well but I didn't. it will take time to get over all the pain but eventually I'll get over it. We decided that we shouldn't talk for a while. This way both of us can heal. Its hard though. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi Desiree! As usual, great post! I'd rather have a relationship with someone locally, and I'd rather meet them in person, as opposed to online. I know some people have success with online dating, but there are also disadvantages. We've discussed this stuff to death on here before. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi, Regarding long distance relationships, I think that's a highly personal preference. For some people, it works out well, for others, like myself, I can't imagine it working at all, particularly if the person I was dating lived in another country. In my opinion, relationships are a delicate balance of physical, emotional and spiritual aspects. If one of these is missing or severely limited, the relationship becomes restricted and stagnant. Having said that, distance definitely is not always a factor in how or why relationships suffer. But if you only talk on the phone, I can't help but think you have nothing more than a very close friendship which could potentially evolve into something deeper if one of you picks up and moves to be with the other. But making that kind of sacrifice, leaving friends and family, culture and comfort, certainly isn't a decision that most people take lightly, nor should it be. If two people truly love each other, that sacrifice has to be made by one of them. But it could just as easily backfire and lead to resentment and loss, no matter how strong their love is. However, maybe if you're only in high school, this doesn't matter to you, and you're content with the way things are. Perhaps keeping a relationship at half the world's length helps with some of the awkwardness, sexual temptations, and uncertainty associated with adolescent relationships. When I was a little younger, I know the idea of a long-distance relationship seemed a lot more feasible than it does now that I'm 23. About a year ago, I came face to face with my convictions in a big way. I met someone online through a game we both played at the time. He's from the Philippines, and we hit it off well. He was a bit older, but not by a ridiculous amount, so I didn't care about that. We seemed to be on the same level, mentally and emotionally; we had similar taste in music, which is a huge plus for me since I spend a good portion of my life talking about music; we gave each other advice with personal problems; we began to scratch the surface of getting to know each other. But, in those few months that we talked, I was constantly waging war within myself. Since we only chatted through text, how was I to know that he was who he appeared to be? Even if we had used Skype, I'm not sure I would have been completely convinced. A person's voice tells a thousand stories, even if the words never actually come to pass; the stories that are told are subtle signals that prove a person's trustworthiness and personality. It's all in how they speak, their tone, and how they present themselves. Some would call this judgmental, but I've learned to trust my instincts in this regard. If I hear a person speak for the first time, and alarm bells go off in my head, I now know to be careful and to keep my distance, because the few times I've ignored the warnings my soul sent out, I ended up getting hurt and violated. So, deprived of even this small comfort, I drove myself nearly insane thinking of the what if's. Playing every possible scenario over and over again in my mind of who he was. My dreams were permeated by images of who I wanted him to be. In my dreams, he was everything I wanted in a boyfriend and more. And when I woke up in the morning, I felt cold, hollow, and cheap. Finally, I just turned tail and ran. I offered no explanation. I simply stopped talking to him. I stopped playing the game I had previously loved where we met. Too many reminders, and besides, I would surely run into him there. He never did try to contact me. I sometimes wonder if perhaps he felt the same way, although I don't believe in things like hope, so I try not to think of that. But you know what? Even though it's been almost a year since I last spoke to him, I still think of him a lot. I still miss him. I still wonder what might have been, if he weren't so hopelessly out of reach. I think of scenarios, like meeting him at a bar where his band played, or what it would be like to travel to his country, to absorb the culture and get to know a world vastly different from the often mundane drabness of my own. If we had hooked up locally, I'm positive I would have loved him. Who can tell what he thought? I since found out he was dating someone through a friend who also played the online game we all played, and I took that like it was a direct blow to my heart. That's what scares me the most. I'm not usually so dramatic. Cautious to the point of paranoia, yes. But I've never completely lost it over the illusion of someone who might not even exist before. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Long distance relationships are definitely not for me. On the other hand, my sister is in one, and she seems happy enough with it. Of course, they're both sighted, which may or may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. He's also, at least, a US citizen, which makes it easier. He's been here several times, and he's a perfectly nice guy. I wish them both the best, and I'm glad it's working out for them. Which brings me back to my main point: if a long distance relationship is in the cards for you, take it for all it's worth. If it isn't...well, don't let trendsetters tell you that you're technologically backward or prejudiced. It is what it is. It's just another preference in the range of acceptable human behavior in relationships. On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe that > there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > > Sincerely, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sarah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of > crying spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. > Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your mind off > things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with > and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to > could help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 04:01:01 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:01:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Message-ID: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the relationship. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Koby Cox" References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite hypocritical. On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, > if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details > of the relationship. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Koby Cox" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Sophie, > Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > relation > ship? > Thanks, > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Sophie > Trist > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives > in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just > chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other > since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's > feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate > relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. > > Sincerely, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sarah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > ones they never work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > talked about > that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna > take some > time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > list. > > Hi, > I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > guy and I > think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys > can talk and > figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try > doing something > that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Webster" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > bipolar > and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know > that > this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > anyhow. > I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > whare > she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking > at the > beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > but we > started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > later > she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to > see > her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay > and be > with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > turns > out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > tickets or > pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the > relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew > this > was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later > she > called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > which > were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It > turns > out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > Mind > you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but > I feel > like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with > and > I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to > could > help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying > spells. > During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > and > had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the > tenth. > So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > Loosing my > grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > and > did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > well > and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > Maybe > if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > through > a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. > My > friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > may > not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > good > enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 06:17:17 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 01:17:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better than every few months. I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, their communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were priviledges for both of us. High school long distance relationships sort of have their own restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really willing to make things work. School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between classes. It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when > going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I > was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how > I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications > for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > hypocritical. > > On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >> if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details >> of the relationship. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Koby Cox" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Sophie, >> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >> relation >> ship? >> Thanks, >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >> in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >> chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >> since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >> feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >> relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for >> everyone; it just takes time. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:15:34 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >> ones they never work. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >> talked about >> that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its gonna >> take some >> time to get over this. I've been going through a lot of crying >> spells. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >> list. >> >> Hi, >> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >> guy and I >> think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you guys >> can talk and >> figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel better. Try >> doing something >> that is fun for you just to get your mind off things. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> >> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >> bipolar >> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know >> that >> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >> anyhow. >> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >> whare >> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking >> at the >> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >> but we >> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >> later >> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to >> see >> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay >> and be >> with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >> turns >> out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >> tickets or >> pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears about the >> relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew >> this >> was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later >> she >> called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >> which >> were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It >> turns >> out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >> Mind >> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but >> I feel >> like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played with >> and >> I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who want to >> could >> help me through this. I've been going through a lot of crying >> spells. >> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >> and >> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the >> tenth. >> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >> Loosing my >> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >> and >> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >> well >> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >> Maybe >> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >> through >> a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through them. >> My >> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >> may >> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >> good >> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 14:49:35 2013 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 09:49:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?=2Cfocus_40_paired_with_inphone=E2=80=94_commy?= =?utf-8?q?and_question?= Message-ID: <6D45F1E7-8690-42EA-A27C-AFC9A8CEAA29@gmail.com> I recently paired my braille ddisplay with my inphone and have been enjoying the ease of use. mI have yet to figure out the hotkey for changing pages orather other useso of the adjustable function that is used in combo boxes. Does anyone know the keystroke for this? comJewel Sent from my iPhone From dwebster125 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 21:08:13 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:08:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that there were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi all, I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better than every few months. I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, their communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were priviledges for both of us. High school long distance relationships sort of have their own restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really willing to make things work. School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between classes. It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when > going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I > was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how > I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications > for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > hypocritical. > > On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >> relationship. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Koby Cox" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Sophie, >> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >> ship? >> Thanks, >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >> Trist >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >> they never work. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >> of crying spells. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi, >> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >> mind off things. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Webster" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> >> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >> anyhow. >> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >> in Colorado. >> Mind >> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >> of crying spells. >> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >> Loosing my >> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >> Maybe >> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >> them. >> My >> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai l.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Wed Feb 13 21:44:21 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:44:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: Hello David, I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate details of your personal relationship. The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such personal information about yourself on this email list. In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate for this email list. Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather than in a public email list. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Webster" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what actually > happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to really > really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that there > were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the > beginning > but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't > think > she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I > suffer > from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma > past > away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying > spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were > so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > relationship > didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some > times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she > didn't > think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell me > that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she > started > talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the > beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg > shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and > I'd > start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi all, > > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > program > we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer > before > my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were > both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it > work > the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even > came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind > moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory > with > a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished > up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a > university > in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me > and > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > other > every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but with > school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better than > every few months. > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with > the > relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to > preference of both people in the relationship, their communication skills, > their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of > other > factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into > text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than > sighted > people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is > just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is > important > in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > strengthen > the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated > the > times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were priviledges > for both of us. > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > restrictions, > especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It > always > made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not seeing > their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd > keep > the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to > different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really > didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really > willing to make things work. > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep > high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college where > the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between > classes. > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > plane > tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long distance > relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything works > out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and school > reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make > things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical > thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >> going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >> was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >> I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >> for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >> hypocritical. >> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>> relationship. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Koby Cox" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Sophie, >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>> ship? >>> Thanks, >>> Koby. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>> Trist >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sarah >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>> they never work. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>> of crying spells. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Hi, >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>> mind off things. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>> anyhow. >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>> in Colorado. >>> Mind >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>> of crying spells. >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>> Loosing my >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>> Maybe >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>> them. >>> My >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai > l.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:05:57 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:05:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in my initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would be. Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get support for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any but. I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not trying to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out there particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so much. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Mohnke Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hello David, I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate details of your personal relationship. The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such personal information about yourself on this email list. In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate for this email list. Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather than in a public email list. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Webster" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I > guess it was just really really hard for her. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > Shelton > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi all, > > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's > a lot better than every few months. > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not > a personality trait or something that really is important in a > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > because they were priviledges for both of us. > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really > willing to make things work. > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after > or between classes. > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the > circumstances. Kudos! > > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >> hypocritical. >> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>> the relationship. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Koby Cox" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Sophie, >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>> relation ship? >>> Thanks, >>> Koby. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>> Trist >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sarah >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>> they never work. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>> lot of crying spells. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>> G >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Hi, >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>> mind off things. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>> post it anyhow. >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >>> to see this guy in Colorado. >>> Mind >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>> of crying spells. >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>> Loosing my >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>> Maybe >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>> them. >>> My >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmai > l.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai > l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:10:17 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:10:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Dave and all, I think the issues you are going through are quite common in the sighted world and you would probably get more and better support on a list geared toward relationships in general or an email support list for people with depression or bipolar, rather than a list for blind people specifically. I'm sure there are several Internet communities out there for people with depression or bipolar who may have had similar experiences. Best of luck and I'll be thinking of you during this difficult time. Arielle On 2/13/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in my > initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would be. > Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get > support > for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any > but. > I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not trying > to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out there > particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long > distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so > much. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth > Mohnke > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hello David, > > I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not > quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > details of your personal relationship. > > The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This > means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed > to > this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such > personal information about yourself on this email list. > > In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are > relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how > disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to > the > intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general > could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific > individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate > for this email list. > > Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal > life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > would > be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather > than in a public email list. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dave Webster" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >> had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >> She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >> could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >> it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >> was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >> bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >> about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells >> really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so >> intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >> relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >> really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >> me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. >> when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >> she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >> she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >> easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would >> talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I >> guess it was just really really hard for her. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >> program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the >> summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance >> situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and >> stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would >> come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go >> together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find >> our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room >> it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local >> community college and worked on transfering to a university in the >> same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and >> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >> other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every >> day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's >> a lot better than every few months. >> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >> down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >> blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >> wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >> sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not >> a personality trait or something that really is important in a >> relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >> strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >> and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >> because they were priviledges for both of us. >> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't >> appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >> willing to make things work. >> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >> or between classes. >> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >> plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >> long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >> assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >> transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as >> happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >> Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >> circumstances. Kudos! >> >> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>> hypocritical. >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>> the relationship. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>> relation ship? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Koby. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>> Trist >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sarah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>> they never work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>> lot of crying spells. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>> G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>> mind off things. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>> post it anyhow. >>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >>>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >>>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan >>>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >>>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >>>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >>>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >>>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >>>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about >>>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >>>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said >>>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >>>> to see this guy in Colorado. >>>> Mind >>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>> of crying spells. >>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>> Loosing my >>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>> Maybe >>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>> them. >>>> My >>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >>>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.co >> m >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai >> l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:40:58 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies Message-ID: Hi ALL I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel more relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which software to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some cases I have inserted the references manually, which of course is disgusting and time-consuming. I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at the university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. What do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible for a blind person? Thank you in advance! Adriana -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From dwebster125 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:49:59 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:49:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> Message-ID: <000301ce0a3c$74a18120$5de48360$@com> Hey thanks Arielle. If you heer of any lists, same for all of you on here if any of you know of any lists or communities let me know. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi Dave and all, I think the issues you are going through are quite common in the sighted world and you would probably get more and better support on a list geared toward relationships in general or an email support list for people with depression or bipolar, rather than a list for blind people specifically. I'm sure there are several Internet communities out there for people with depression or bipolar who may have had similar experiences. Best of luck and I'll be thinking of you during this difficult time. Arielle On 2/13/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why > in my initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would be. > Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get > support for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't > seen any but. > I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not > trying to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good > lists out there particularly for people who are blind and who have > gone through long distance relationships or any relationshIps for that > matter. Thanks so much. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth > Mohnke > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hello David, > > I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I > am not quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the > intimate details of your personal relationship. > > The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > This means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > subscribed to this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who > has access to the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think > twice about sharing such personal information about yourself on this > email list. > > In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that > are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail > to see how disclosing intimate details regarding a personal > relationship relates to the intended purpose of this email list. I can > see how relationships in general could be a relevant topic for this > list, but I do not see how a specific > individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate > for this email list. > > Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > personal life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal > relationship would be more suited for conversations that take place in > private emails rather than in a public email list. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dave Webster" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >> had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >> She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >> could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >> it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >> was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >> bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >> about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >> were so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >> relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >> really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >> me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. >> when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >> she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >> she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >> easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >> would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to >> cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >> the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >> music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it >> off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long >> distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and >> band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks >> he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so >> we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with >> trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of >> people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished up >> at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >> university in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles >> away from me and in another state our universities are pretty close >> and we can see each other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see >> each other every day, but with school for both of us it can't really >> be helped and it's a lot better than every few months. >> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >> down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >> blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >> wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >> sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, >> not a personality trait or something that really is important in a >> relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >> strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >> and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >> because they were priviledges for both of us. >> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >> really willing to make things work. >> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >> or between classes. >> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >> plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >> long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >> assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >> transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be >> as happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >> Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >> circumstances. Kudos! >> >> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional >>> topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't >>> go through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that >>> you should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open >>> when going into these situations. then again, if people thought >>> deeply when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far >>> the other person is, they might have more success. On the other >>> hand, being overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its >>> drawbacks, namely that I go around and around in endless circles in >>> my head, never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly >>> agonizing over every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being >>> quite hypocritical. >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>> the relationship. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>> relation ship? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Koby. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>> Trist >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since >>>> we started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few >>>> bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I >>>> believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sarah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>> ones they never work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>> lot of crying spells. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>> G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>> guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off >>>> you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you >>>> feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get >>>> your mind off things. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>> post it anyhow. >>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>> whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>> talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>> didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>> About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>> out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I >>>> was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in a >>>> board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks >>>> probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she >>>> began having doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my >>>> doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. >>>> We talked about them but a few days later she called the >>>> relationship off because there were some symptoms which were >>>> rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out >>>> that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >>>> Mind >>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>> of crying spells. >>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>> and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>> Loosing my >>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>> and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>> well and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>> Maybe >>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>> them. >>>> My >>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>> wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> m >> ail.co >> m >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> % >> 40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gma >> i >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma >> i >> l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 22:44:09 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:44:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: hi Elizabeth, Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about myself in my previous messages on this topic. I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello David, > > I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not > > quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > details of your personal relationship. > > The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This > > means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to > > this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such > > personal information about yourself on this email list. > > In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are > relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how > > disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the > > intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general > > could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific > individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate > for this email list. > > Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal > > life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would > > be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather > than in a public email list. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dave Webster" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what actually >> happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to really >> really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that there >> were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >> beginning >> but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >> think >> she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >> suffer >> from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >> past >> away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >> were >> so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >> relationship >> didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some >> times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >> didn't >> think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >> me >> that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >> started >> talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >> egg >> shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >> I'd >> start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >> program >> we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >> before >> my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were >> both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >> work >> the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >> even >> came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >> moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >> with >> a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >> finished >> up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >> university >> in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >> and >> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >> other >> every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >> with >> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >> than >> every few months. >> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with >> the >> relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >> preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >> skills, >> their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >> other >> factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >> text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >> sighted >> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is >> just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >> important >> in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >> strengthen >> the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated >> the >> times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >> priviledges >> for both of us. >> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >> restrictions, >> especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >> always >> made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >> seeing >> their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >> keep >> the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >> different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >> willing to make things work. >> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep >> high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >> where >> the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >> classes. >> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >> plane >> tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >> distance >> relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >> works >> out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >> school >> reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make >> things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >> thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >> >> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>> going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>> was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>> I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>> for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>> hypocritical. >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>> relationship. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>> ship? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Koby. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>> Trist >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sarah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>> they never work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>> of crying spells. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>> mind off things. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>>> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>> anyhow. >>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>> in Colorado. >>>> Mind >>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>> of crying spells. >>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>> Loosing my >>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>> Maybe >>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>> them. >>>> My >>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>>> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From joy.misto at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 23:43:39 2013 From: joy.misto at gmail.com (Joy Mistovich) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:43:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Message-ID: Hi, This is my first time posting an e-mail on this mailing list. I am currently working on my Masters in English and am going to apply for my PhD next year. However, my main question is regarding the GRE. I previously read an e-mail related to this topic through the mailing list, but I am interested in knowing a little more about it. Most importantly, is it strictly online, and would there be any possibility of providing accomodations like extra time? The most challenging aspect of the test for me would involve the math component, because I have always had difficulty in this area. Finally, do you think the individual reading over my application would take into consideration the overall score or as separate scores. What is the average score you have to receive on the GRE in order to get into a PhD program? Thanks so much! Joy Mistovich From dwebster125 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 23:45:24 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:45:24 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: <000001ce0a44$32beebf0$983cc3d0$@com> Hey thanks for that post. I guess I'm just looking for someone to just be there for me. Someone who can either be on the phone or email or skype which ever. I don't have too many guy friends so mostly the people I talk to are girls. So. Hopefully no one takes that the wrong way. Anyhow. Thanks folks. If any of you want to talk and get together off list let me know. I've got skype and the whole bit. So. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. hi Elizabeth, Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about myself in my previous messages on this topic. I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello David, > > I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I > am not > > quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > details of your personal relationship. > > The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > This > > means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > subscribed to > > this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to > the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about > sharing such > > personal information about yourself on this email list. > > In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that > are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail > to see how > > disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates > to the > > intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > general > > could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific > individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate > for this email list. > > Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > personal > > life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > would > > be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > rather than in a public email list. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dave Webster" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >> had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >> She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >> could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >> it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >> was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >> bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >> about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >> were so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >> relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >> really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >> me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she >> didn't. when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off >> and before she told me that's when she started talking to this other >> person. If she would have said something in the beginning it would >> have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells >> because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd >> start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >> the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >> music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it >> off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long >> distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and >> band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks >> he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so >> we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with >> trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of >> people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished up >> at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >> university in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles >> away from me and in another state our universities are pretty close >> and we can see each other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see >> each other every day, but with school for both of us it can't really >> be helped and it's a lot better than every few months. >> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >> down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >> blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >> wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >> sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, >> not a personality trait or something that really is important in a >> relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >> strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >> and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >> because they were priviledges for both of us. >> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >> really willing to make things work. >> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >> or between classes. >> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >> plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >> long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >> assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >> transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be >> as happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >> Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >> circumstances. Kudos! >> >> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional >>> topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't >>> go through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that >>> you should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open >>> when going into these situations. then again, if people thought >>> deeply when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far >>> the other person is, they might have more success. On the other >>> hand, being overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its >>> drawbacks, namely that I go around and around in endless circles in >>> my head, never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly >>> agonizing over every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being >>> quite hypocritical. >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>> the relationship. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>> relation ship? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Koby. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>> Trist >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since >>>> we started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few >>>> bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I >>>> believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sarah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>> ones they never work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>> lot of crying spells. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>> G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>> guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off >>>> you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you >>>> feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get >>>> your mind off things. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>> post it anyhow. >>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>> whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>> talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>> didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>> About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>> out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I >>>> was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in a >>>> board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks >>>> probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she >>>> began having doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my >>>> doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. >>>> We talked about them but a few days later she called the >>>> relationship off because there were some symptoms which were >>>> rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out >>>> that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >>>> Mind >>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>> of crying spells. >>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>> and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>> Loosing my >>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>> and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>> well and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>> Maybe >>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>> them. >>>> My >>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>> wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.co >> m >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> %40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma >> il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 23:52:42 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:52:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies Message-ID: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a braillenote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adriana Pulido References: Message-ID: Hi Joy, The GRE is not an online exam. It's usually taken in some sort of testing center at the university you are currently attending or a university near you. You can request accommodations like a Braille, large print, audio or electronic test booklet, extra time and accommodations for writing such as a human scribe and Braille writing equipment. There is a whole formal process for requesting accommodations and setting up an appointment to take the test. Ruth Loew ( rloew at ets.org ) can help you get that process started. Every Ph.D. program is different as far as what minimum score they would expect. You may be able to do a Google search to find out the average scores for students who are accepted into Ph.D. programs in English or whatever field you are planning to go into. My impression is that admissions committees usually look at verbal and math scores. Many people (blind and sighted alike) struggle with the math portion of the GRE especially if it's been a while since you took algebra or geometry. You may want to consider hiring a private math tutor or taking a GRE prep class to help enhance your skills. ETS also has accessible practice tests you could take in order to get a sense for what the problems are like and to see what kind of score you would get without any tutoring and what your personal strengths and weaknesses are when attempting GRE problems. Best of luck, Arielle On 2/13/13, Joy Mistovich wrote: > Hi, > This is my first time posting an e-mail on this mailing list. I am > currently working on my Masters in English and am going to apply for my PhD > next year. However, my main question is regarding the GRE. I previously > read an e-mail related to this topic through the mailing list, but I am > interested in knowing a little more about it. Most importantly, is it > strictly online, and would there be any possibility of providing > accomodations like extra time? The most challenging aspect of the test for > me would involve the math component, because I have always had difficulty > in this area. Finally, do you think the individual reading over my > application would take into consideration the overall score or as separate > scores. What is the average score you have to receive on the GRE in order > to get into a PhD program? > Thanks so much! > Joy Mistovich > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 00:03:47 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:03:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well, Zotero is a software you download and install in your computer. Then you create an account to manage your citations and bibliographies. RefWirds is a Website where you create an account for the same thing. 2013/2/13, Sophie Trist : > Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create > bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or > www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a > braillenote. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Adriana Pulido To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies > > Hi ALL > > I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel > more > relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... > During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which > software > to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some > cases > I have inserted the references manually, which of course is > disgusting > and time-consuming. > I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at > the > university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. > What > do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible > for a > blind person? > > Thank you in advance! > > Adriana > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of > Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 00:54:34 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:54:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6638A082-AD4B-43A9-8F81-52A07FD6C978@gmail.com> Hi Adrianna, I know its gross and time consuming, but I actually generate most of my references by hand. I used to use the built in reference sheet in Microsoft Word. It let you choose a style guide to follow, such as APA, Chicago, Turabian, MLA, and then you entered your references. You could then automatically generate a reference sheet. I ended up doing them by hand because so many of my references didn't quite fit the categories listed and I ended up needing to fix them anyway. I haven't tried either of these programs. I would pick one or two of your most complicated references and see how well they work. If you like them, then go for it. I would also recommend getting some sighted assistance to look over the formatting once you are done. It is typical to get one or two students to read through your work when working on a masters thesis or project. A sighted student will detect irregularities in your formatting in far less time than it will take you to move line by line, word by word, and even character by character through your bibliography. Your time is valuable, especially at the end when you are working to get it all done. It might even be worth paying someone. Hope this helps. -Greg On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: > Well, Zotero is a software you download and install in your computer. > Then you create an account to manage your citations and > bibliographies. RefWirds is a Website where you create an account for > the same thing. > > 2013/2/13, Sophie Trist : >> Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create >> bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or >> www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a >> braillenote. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Adriana Pulido > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies >> >> Hi ALL >> >> I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel >> more >> relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... >> During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which >> software >> to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some >> cases >> I have inserted the references manually, which of course is >> disgusting >> and time-consuming. >> I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at >> the >> university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. >> What >> do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible >> for a >> blind person? >> >> Thank you in advance! >> >> Adriana >> >> -- >> Adriana Pulido >> Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad >> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of >> Florida. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Feb 14 01:00:47 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:00:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: Hello Desiree and List, I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. There are several different hotlines where one can receive support for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some resources. If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder as well. Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number that lists various community services. And although your personal situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in the future. Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the community. So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them with the whole entire world. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Desiree Oudinot" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > hi Elizabeth, > Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's > defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about > myself in my previous messages on this topic. > I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell > you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no > value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I > was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how > so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their > lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of > suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that > everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job > dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list > isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel > needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out > in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you > did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was > not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate > and permanent backlash. > > On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >> not >> >> quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >> details of your personal relationship. >> >> The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >> This >> >> means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >> to >> >> this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >> internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >> such >> >> personal information about yourself on this email list. >> >> In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >> are >> relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >> how >> >> disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >> the >> >> intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >> general >> >> could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >> individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >> appropriate >> for this email list. >> >> Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >> personal >> >> life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >> would >> >> be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >> than in a public email list. >> >> Respectfully, >> Elizabeth >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dave Webster" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>> actually >>> happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>> really >>> really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>> there >>> were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>> beginning >>> but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>> think >>> she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>> suffer >>> from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>> past >>> away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>> crying >>> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>> were >>> so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>> relationship >>> didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some >>> times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>> didn't >>> think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>> me >>> that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>> started >>> talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>> egg >>> shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>> I'd >>> start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>> program >>> we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>> before >>> my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>> were >>> both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>> work >>> the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>> even >>> came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>> moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>> with >>> a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>> finished >>> up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>> university >>> in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>> and >>> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>> other >>> every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>> with >>> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>> than >>> every few months. >>> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with >>> the >>> relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>> preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>> skills, >>> their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>> other >>> factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>> text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>> sighted >>> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is >>> just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>> important >>> in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, >>> or >>> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>> strengthen >>> the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated >>> the >>> times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>> priviledges >>> for both of us. >>> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>> restrictions, >>> especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>> always >>> made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>> seeing >>> their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>> keep >>> the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>> different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>> really >>> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>> really >>> willing to make things work. >>> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep >>> high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>> where >>> the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>> classes. >>> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>> plane >>> tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>> distance >>> relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>> works >>> out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>> school >>> reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make >>> things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>> thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>> going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>> was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>> I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>> for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>> hypocritical. >>>> >>>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>> relationship. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>> ship? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Koby. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>> Trist >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Sarah >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>> they never work. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>> of crying spells. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>> mind off things. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>>>> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>> anyhow. >>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>> in Colorado. >>>>> Mind >>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>> of crying spells. >>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>> Loosing my >>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>> Maybe >>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>> them. >>>>> My >>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>>>> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>> %40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>> m >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 01:41:29 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:41:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: <84DDA17E-B2F1-4F47-81EB-D8271384CD6C@gmail.com> what an interesting debate this is. Having come from a country where people are less afraid of looking vulnerable in general, I am more used with assisting people with their issues, as in brazil this is a rather natural thing to do amongst a group of friends. furthermore, I tend on being a believer of the theory that keeping emotions too private may result in rather complicated conflicts within ones internal system, and these can be quite tough to solve. To the same proportion, listening to everyone's opinions can be dangerous as well, for one must always keep in mind that none but them is responsible for making decisions pertaining to their lives. I believe what dave did here is in fact healthy. He was open about severe issues which most people are keen to hide, and he asked assistance. Had he sent the same message at housand times, then i would be the first one to request that the conversation be taken to a different outlet, but as th subjects stands now anyone who is not quite interested can simply not follow the tread, while the people who are can continue the discussion. I do think the resources you gave are great, elizabeth, and i had no clue of the 211 number myself. it's something iw ill check out for volunteer work i want to do myself. sincerely, mauricio On Feb 13, 2013, at 8:00 PM, "Elizabeth Mohnke" wrote: > Hello Desiree and List, > > I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > > I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > > There are several different hotlines where one can receive support for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some resources. > > If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder as well. > > Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number that lists various community services. And although your personal situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in the future. > > Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the community. > > So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them with the whole entire world. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> hi Elizabeth, >> Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >> defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >> myself in my previous messages on this topic. >> I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >> archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >> and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >> you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >> value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >> was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >> indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >> failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >> so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >> lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >> suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >> everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >> dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >> isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >> needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >> in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >> cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >> did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >> not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >> and permanent backlash. >> >> On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>> Hello David, >>> >>> I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not >>> >>> quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>> details of your personal relationship. >>> >>> The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This >>> >>> means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to >>> >>> this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>> internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such >>> >>> personal information about yourself on this email list. >>> >>> In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are >>> relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how >>> >>> disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the >>> >>> intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general >>> >>> could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>> individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate >>> for this email list. >>> >>> Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal >>> >>> life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would >>> >>> be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >>> than in a public email list. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what actually >>>> happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to really >>>> really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that there >>>> were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>> beginning >>>> but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>>> think >>>> she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>> suffer >>>> from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>>> past >>>> away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >>>> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>> were >>>> so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>> relationship >>>> didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some >>>> times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>> didn't >>>> think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>>> me >>>> that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>> started >>>> talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>>> egg >>>> shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>>> I'd >>>> start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>>> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>> program >>>> we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>> before >>>> my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were >>>> both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>>> work >>>> the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>> even >>>> came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>> moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>>> with >>>> a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>> finished >>>> up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>> university >>>> in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>>> and >>>> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>>> other >>>> every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>> with >>>> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>> than >>>> every few months. >>>> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with >>>> the >>>> relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>> preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>> skills, >>>> their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>>> other >>>> factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>> text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>> sighted >>>> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is >>>> just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>> important >>>> in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >>>> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>> strengthen >>>> the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated >>>> the >>>> times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>> priviledges >>>> for both of us. >>>> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>> restrictions, >>>> especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>> always >>>> made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>> seeing >>>> their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>>> keep >>>> the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>> different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >>>> willing to make things work. >>>> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep >>>> high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>> where >>>> the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>> classes. >>>> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>> plane >>>> tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>> distance >>>> relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>> works >>>> out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>> school >>>> reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make >>>> things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>> thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>> >>>> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>>> going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>>> was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>>> I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>> for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>> hypocritical. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>>> relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>>> ship? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Koby. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>> Trist >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Sarah >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>>> they never work. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>> of crying spells. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>> mind off things. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>>>>> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>>> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>>> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>>> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>>> in Colorado. >>>>>> Mind >>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>> of crying spells. >>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>> Loosing my >>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>> Maybe >>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>> them. >>>>>> My >>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>>>>> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>>> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>> %40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 01:44:19 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:44:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: <6638A082-AD4B-43A9-8F81-52A07FD6C978@gmail.com> References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> <6638A082-AD4B-43A9-8F81-52A07FD6C978@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Greg! I'll probably ask the librarian to help me with that. She's very nice and efficient. 2013/2/13, Greg Aikens : > Hi Adrianna, > I know its gross and time consuming, but I actually generate most of my > references by hand. I used to use the built in reference sheet in Microsoft > Word. It let you choose a style guide to follow, such as APA, Chicago, > Turabian, MLA, and then you entered your references. You could then > automatically generate a reference sheet. I ended up doing them by hand > because so many of my references didn't quite fit the categories listed and > I ended up needing to fix them anyway. > > I haven't tried either of these programs. I would pick one or two of your > most complicated references and see how well they work. If you like them, > then go for it. > > I would also recommend getting some sighted assistance to look over the > formatting once you are done. It is typical to get one or two students to > read through your work when working on a masters thesis or project. A > sighted student will detect irregularities in your formatting in far less > time than it will take you to move line by line, word by word, and even > character by character through your bibliography. Your time is valuable, > especially at the end when you are working to get it all done. It might > even be worth paying someone. > > Hope this helps. > > -Greg > On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: > >> Well, Zotero is a software you download and install in your computer. >> Then you create an account to manage your citations and >> bibliographies. RefWirds is a Website where you create an account for >> the same thing. >> >> 2013/2/13, Sophie Trist : >>> Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create >>> bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or >>> www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a >>> braillenote. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Adriana Pulido >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies >>> >>> Hi ALL >>> >>> I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel >>> more >>> relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... >>> During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which >>> software >>> to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some >>> cases >>> I have inserted the references manually, which of course is >>> disgusting >>> and time-consuming. >>> I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at >>> the >>> university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. >>> What >>> do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible >>> for a >>> blind person? >>> >>> Thank you in advance! >>> >>> Adriana >>> >>> -- >>> Adriana Pulido >>> Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad >>> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of >>> Florida. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Adriana Pulido >> Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad >> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From dwebster125 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 02:35:34 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:35:34 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <84DDA17E-B2F1-4F47-81EB-D8271384CD6C@gmail.com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <84DDA17E-B2F1-4F47-81EB-D8271384CD6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001ce0a5b$f877de30$e9679a90$@com> Hello. All. I know that this list is geared for students but one of the reasons I posted on this list is because I trust the nfb and the people who are part of the organization. I posted to the list because I knew I could trust you guys and any other list I wouldn't necessarily be able to talk about long distance relationships because its seems more common among us to hav them because its hard to get out some times. So I posted to this list because its hard to trust anyone else. And I trust the national federation of the blind and its people. I want to try to get into a chapter and I live in the La area. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio Almeida Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. what an interesting debate this is. Having come from a country where people are less afraid of looking vulnerable in general, I am more used with assisting people with their issues, as in brazil this is a rather natural thing to do amongst a group of friends. furthermore, I tend on being a believer of the theory that keeping emotions too private may result in rather complicated conflicts within ones internal system, and these can be quite tough to solve. To the same proportion, listening to everyone's opinions can be dangerous as well, for one must always keep in mind that none but them is responsible for making decisions pertaining to their lives. I believe what dave did here is in fact healthy. He was open about severe issues which most people are keen to hide, and he asked assistance. Had he sent the same message at housand times, then i would be the first one to request that the conversation be taken to a different outlet, but as th subjects stands now anyone who is not quite interested can simply not follow the tread, while the people who are can continue the discussion. I do think the resources you gave are great, elizabeth, and i had no clue of the 211 number myself. it's something iw ill check out for volunteer work i want to do myself. sincerely, mauricio On Feb 13, 2013, at 8:00 PM, "Elizabeth Mohnke" wrote: > Hello Desiree and List, > > I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > > I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > > There are several different hotlines where one can receive support for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some resources. > > If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder as well. > > Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number that lists various community services. And although your personal situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in the future. > > Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the community. > > So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them with the whole entire world. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> hi Elizabeth, >> Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >> Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >> about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >> I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >> archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >> and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >> you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >> value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >> was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >> indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >> failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >> how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >> their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result >> of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >> everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >> dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >> isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I >> feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching >> out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be >> a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >> did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >> not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause >> immediate and permanent backlash. >> >> On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>> Hello David, >>> >>> I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I >>> am not >>> >>> quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>> intimate details of your personal relationship. >>> >>> The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public >>> archive. This >>> >>> means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>> subscribed to >>> >>> this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>> the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>> sharing such >>> >>> personal information about yourself on this email list. >>> >>> In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>> that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I >>> fail to see how >>> >>> disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>> relates to the >>> >>> intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>> general >>> >>> could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>> individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate >>> for this email list. >>> >>> Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>> personal >>> >>> life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>> relationship would >>> >>> be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>> rather than in a public email list. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>> I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>> me. She said that there were some things about me that she thought >>>> she could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and >>>> when it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the >>>> things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar >>>> and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away >>>> just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>> crying spells really started. It was hard for her because the >>>> crying spells were so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still >>>> do because this relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma >>>> died I would cry really hard. Some times they would last a wile. >>>> She wanted to tell me before that she didn't think she could handle >>>> those but she didn't. when she finally did tell me that's when she >>>> broke it off and before she told me that's when she started talking >>>> to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was >>>> on egg shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her >>>> family and I'd start to cry. I guess it was just really really >>>> hard for her. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>> the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>> music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it >>>> off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long >>>> distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs >>>> and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our >>>> breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior >>>> prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we >>>> had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a >>>> lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>> finished up at his local community college and worked on >>>> transfering to a university in the same city as mine. Now instead >>>> of living 300 miles away from me and in another state our >>>> universities are pretty close and we can see each other every few >>>> weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but with >>>> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot >>>> better than every few months. >>>> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all >>>> boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >>>> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >>>> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that >>>> sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>> relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>> blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>> that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>> distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>> They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>> the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>> relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>> appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>> because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>> really willing to make things work. >>>> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >>>> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner >>>> after or between classes. >>>> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>> certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>> goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>> distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>> easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you might >>>> as well be as happy as possible together and make things work as it >>>> sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do >>>> considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>> >>>> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>> relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>> very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>> others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>> trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>> and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>> then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>> relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>> might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>> analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>> that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>> being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the >>>>> guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>> depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>> he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>> was being quite hypocritical. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>> if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details >>>>>> of the relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>> relation ship? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Koby. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Sophie Trist >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>> in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>> chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>> since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>> feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>> relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Sarah >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>> ones they never work. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>> talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>> sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>> going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Gloria G >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>> guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off >>>>>> you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you >>>>>> feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get >>>>>> your mind off things. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>>>> post it anyhow. >>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>> whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>> talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>> didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>> About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>> out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I >>>>>> was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in >>>>>> a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of >>>>>> weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after >>>>>> she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. I had >>>>>> my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a normal >>>>>> thing. We talked about them but a few days later she called the >>>>>> relationship off because there were some symptoms which were >>>>>> rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns >>>>>> out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >>>>>> Mind >>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you >>>>>> who want to could help me through this. I've been going through >>>>>> a lot of crying spells. >>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>>>> and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>> Loosing my >>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>>>> and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>> well and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>> Maybe >>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>> them. >>>>>> My >>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>>>> wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>> %40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0gmail.co >>>> m >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 >>>> 04%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hot >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 03:29:34 2013 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:29:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies Message-ID: <511c5a27.839f320a.53be.66c4@mx.google.com> You don't need an account for www.easybib.com or www.knightcite.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adriana Pulido : Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a braillenote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adriana Pulido References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <84DDA17E-B2F1-4F47-81EB-D8271384CD6C@gmail.com> <000001ce0a5b$f877de30$e9679a90$@com> Message-ID: Hi Dave, Going back to what Elizabeth and Arielle were saying, there are actually a lot of web sites packed with information and resources for bipolar disorder and depression. Just google them and tons of stuff should come up and you can pick the things you like the best. I find myself agreeing with Mauricio on this one. I do think certain details of personal life should be not necessarily kept bottled up, but should be handled with care. It's okay to talk to other's about them, and while I personally have prefered to talk with a friend or something I can understand why Dave would post here in his situation. The NFB is full of really helpful and supportive people, and he stated himself that's what he was looking for. Good luck in your hunt for more resources! On 2/13/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Hello. All. I know that this list is geared for students but one of the > reasons I posted on this list is because I trust the nfb and the people who > are part of the organization. I posted to the list because I knew I could > trust you guys and any other list I wouldn't necessarily be able to talk > about long distance relationships because its seems more common among us > to > hav them because its hard to get out some times. So I posted to this list > because its hard to trust anyone else. And I trust the national federation > of the blind and its people. I want to try to get into a chapter and I > live > in the La area. Thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio > Almeida > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > what an interesting debate this is. > Having come from a country where people are less afraid of looking > vulnerable in general, I am more used with assisting people with their > issues, as in brazil this is a rather natural thing to do amongst a group > of > friends. > furthermore, I tend on being a believer of the theory that keeping emotions > too private may result in rather complicated conflicts within ones internal > system, and these can be quite tough to solve. > To the same proportion, listening to everyone's opinions can be dangerous > as > well, for one must always keep in mind that none but them is responsible > for > making decisions pertaining to their lives. > I believe what dave did here is in fact healthy. He was open about severe > issues which most people are keen to hide, and he asked assistance. > Had he sent the same message at housand times, then i would be the first > one > to request that the conversation be taken to a different outlet, but as th > subjects stands now anyone who is not quite interested can simply not > follow > the tread, while the people who are can continue the discussion. > I do think the resources you gave are great, elizabeth, and i had no clue > of > the 211 number myself. it's something iw ill check out for volunteer work i > want to do myself. > > sincerely, > > mauricio > On Feb 13, 2013, at 8:00 PM, "Elizabeth Mohnke" > wrote: > >> Hello Desiree and List, >> >> I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to > discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most appropriate > place to express such personal emotions. I believe personal matters are > meant to be kept private, and today's role of social media has conditioned > us to be more public with our private lives. >> >> I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is > rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are more > effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply posting a > mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >> >> There are several different hotlines where one can receive support for > these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local resources > for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines at the moment, > but a simple internet search should provide some resources. >> >> If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, a > local hospital should be able to provide you with some local resources to > help support you during your loss. They may also be able to provide > information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder as well. >> >> Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number that > lists various community services. And although your personal situation with > your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic violence, a crisis > center may be able to provide you with some resources you can use to deal > with your current relationship problem as well as give you some tools for > building healthy relationships in the future. >> >> Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on campus > who can help you through emotional -term problems which prevent you from > being a successful student. Services may range from personal counseling to > referral services to other resources in the community. >> >> So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy thing to > do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them among a selected > group of individuals rather than simply sharing them with the whole entire > world. >> >> Respectfully, >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Desiree Oudinot" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> hi Elizabeth, >>> Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >>> Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >>> about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>> I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>> archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>> and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>> you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>> value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>> was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>> indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>> failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >>> how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >>> their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result >>> of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>> everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>> dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>> isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I >>> feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching >>> out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be >>> a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>> did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>> not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause >>> immediate and permanent backlash. >>> >>> On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>> Hello David, >>>> >>>> I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I >>>> am not >>>> >>>> quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>>> intimate details of your personal relationship. >>>> >>>> The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public >>>> archive. This >>>> >>>> means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>> subscribed to >>>> >>>> this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>> the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>>> sharing such >>>> >>>> personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>> >>>> In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>>> that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I >>>> fail to see how >>>> >>>> disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>>> relates to the >>>> >>>> intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>> general >>>> >>>> could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>> specific >>>> individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > appropriate >>>> for this email list. >>>> >>>> Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>> personal >>>> >>>> life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>>> relationship would >>>> >>>> be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>> rather than in a public email list. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>>> I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>>> me. She said that there were some things about me that she thought >>>>> she could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and >>>>> when it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the >>>>> things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar >>>>> and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away >>>>> just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>>> crying spells really started. It was hard for her because the >>>>> crying spells were so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still >>>>> do because this relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma >>>>> died I would cry really hard. Some times they would last a wile. >>>>> She wanted to tell me before that she didn't think she could handle >>>>> those but she didn't. when she finally did tell me that's when she >>>>> broke it off and before she told me that's when she started talking >>>>> to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>>> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was >>>>> on egg shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her >>>>> family and I'd start to cry. I guess it was just really really >>>>> hard for her. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>> Shelton >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>> the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>>> music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it >>>>> off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the long >>>>> distance situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs >>>>> and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our >>>>> breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my senior >>>>> prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind moments we >>>>> had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory with a >>>>> lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>> finished up at his local community college and worked on >>>>> transfering to a university in the same city as mine. Now instead >>>>> of living 300 miles away from me and in another state our >>>>> universities are pretty close and we can see each other every few >>>>> weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but with >>>>> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot >>>>> better than every few months. >>>>> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all >>>>> boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >>>>> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >>>>> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that >>>>> sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>>> relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>>> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>>> blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>>> that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>>> distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>>> They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>>> the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>>> relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>> appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>> because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>> really willing to make things work. >>>>> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >>>>> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner >>>>> after or between classes. >>>>> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>> certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>>> goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>>> distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>>> easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you might >>>>> as well be as happy as possible together and make things work as it >>>>> sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do >>>>> considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>>> relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>>> very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>>> others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>>> trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>>> and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>>> then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>>> relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>>> might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>>> analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>>> that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>>> being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every > possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the >>>>>> guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>>> depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>>> he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>>> was being quite hypocritical. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>>> if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details >>>>>>> of the relationship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>> relation ship? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Koby. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Sophie Trist >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>>> in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>>> chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>>> since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>>> feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>>> relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Sophie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Sarah >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>> ones they never work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>>> talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>>> sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>>> going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Gloria G >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>> guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off >>>>>>> you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you >>>>>>> feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get >>>>>>> your mind off things. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>>>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>>>>> post it anyhow. >>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>> whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>>> talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>>> didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>>> About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>>> out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then I >>>>>>> was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live in >>>>>>> a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple of >>>>>>> weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after >>>>>>> she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. I had >>>>>>> my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a normal >>>>>>> thing. We talked about them but a few days later she called the >>>>>>> relationship off because there were some symptoms which were >>>>>>> rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns >>>>>>> out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. >>>>>>> Mind >>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you >>>>>>> who want to could help me through this. I've been going through >>>>>>> a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>>>>> and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the > tenth. >>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>> Loosing my >>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>>>>> and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>> well and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>> Maybe >>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>> them. >>>>>>> My >>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>>>>> wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>> %40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 >>>>> 04%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hot >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dandrews at visi.com Thu Feb 14 03:42:37 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:42:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [duxnews] Announcing Perky Duck 11.1 Message-ID: > >We are very pleased to announce that the latest version of Perky >Duck is now available for download on our freeware page: > >http://www.duxburysystems.com/products.asp#freeware > >Perky Duck is a simple six-key braille editor intended for students >learning braille transcription. > >Major improvements are: > >Support on Windows 7 and 8 >JAWs Scripts >An improved Document menu >Expanded Help content > >There are two caveats: > >Perky Duck is provided without telephone or email technical support >from Duxbury Systems. This is how we are able to provide it at no >cost. Students should get technical support from their braille instructors. > >There is a conflict between previous versions of Perky Duck and >Perky Duck 11.1. If you have an older version of Perky Duck, please >remove it before installing Perky Duck 11.1. If you have >accidentally installed both versions, simply remove both, then >install only Perky Duck 11.1. > >Best regards, > >Anne Ronco >email: info at duxsys.com > >Duxbury Systems, Inc. >270 Littleton Road, #6; Westford, MA 01886-3523 USA >TEL: + 978-692-3000 FAX: + 978-692-7912 >Email (general): info at duxsys.com >Web site: http://www.DuxburySystems.com >Duxbury Systems, the first name in software for Braille - since 1975. > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 05:13:35 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:13:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: <5F58C68066C545EAA3BE7D9A1A9AA718@OwnerPC> Hello Elizabeth, I can see both sides of the argument. I think putting private details and deep feelings on a archived list does pose some security concerns. But IMO it was his decision and choice. On the other hand, I understand David is lonely and hurt. He probably felt that blind students would understand rejection more. Anyway, it happened and I kind of enjoyed seeing a glimpse of some others emotions in their responses. I cannot offer David relationship advice because I have not been in that situation. But I can definitely give some guidance on where to turn. A person in this situation needs counseling and a real support group of people with bipolar disorder. I do hope David can find such a group. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Mohnke Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hello Desiree and List, I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. There are several different hotlines where one can receive support for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some resources. If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder as well. Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number that lists various community services. And although your personal situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in the future. Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the community. So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them with the whole entire world. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Desiree Oudinot" Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > hi Elizabeth, > Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's > defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about > myself in my previous messages on this topic. > I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell > you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no > value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I > was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how > so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their > lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of > suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that > everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job > dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list > isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel > needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out > in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you > did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was > not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate > and permanent backlash. > > On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >> not >> >> quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >> details of your personal relationship. >> >> The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >> This >> >> means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >> to >> >> this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >> internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >> such >> >> personal information about yourself on this email list. >> >> In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >> are >> relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >> how >> >> disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >> the >> >> intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >> general >> >> could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >> individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >> appropriate >> for this email list. >> >> Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >> personal >> >> life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >> would >> >> be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >> than in a public email list. >> >> Respectfully, >> Elizabeth >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dave Webster" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>> actually >>> happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>> really >>> really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>> there >>> were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>> beginning >>> but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>> think >>> she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>> suffer >>> from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>> past >>> away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>> crying >>> spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>> were >>> so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>> relationship >>> didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some >>> times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>> didn't >>> think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>> me >>> that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>> started >>> talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>> beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>> egg >>> shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>> I'd >>> start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>> program >>> we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>> before >>> my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>> were >>> both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>> work >>> the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>> even >>> came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>> moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>> with >>> a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>> finished >>> up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>> university >>> in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>> and >>> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>> other >>> every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>> with >>> school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>> than >>> every few months. >>> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with >>> the >>> relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>> preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>> skills, >>> their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>> other >>> factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>> text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>> sighted >>> people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is >>> just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>> important >>> in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, >>> or >>> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>> strengthen >>> the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated >>> the >>> times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>> priviledges >>> for both of us. >>> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>> restrictions, >>> especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>> always >>> made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>> seeing >>> their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>> keep >>> the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>> different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>> really >>> didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>> really >>> willing to make things work. >>> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep >>> high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>> where >>> the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>> classes. >>> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>> plane >>> tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>> distance >>> relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>> works >>> out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>> school >>> reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make >>> things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>> thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>> >>> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>> going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>> was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>> I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>> for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>> hypocritical. >>>> >>>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>> relationship. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>> ship? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Koby. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>> Trist >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Sarah >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>> they never work. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>> of crying spells. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>> mind off things. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>>>> and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>> this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>> anyhow. >>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>> beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>> started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>> she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>> her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>> be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>> turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>> tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>> about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>> and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>> days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>> symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>> handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>> in Colorado. >>>>> Mind >>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>> of crying spells. >>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>> Loosing my >>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>> Maybe >>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>> them. >>>>> My >>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>>>> not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>> enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>> %40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>> m >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 05:15:35 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:15:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, There is definitely software to assist you in creating a bibliography. I think I heard of one accessible one called OneNote. But like you, I simply use websites or follow the old fashioned models off paper and build one myself by hand. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a braillenote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adriana Pulido References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5222604384066012858@unknownmsgid> There is a website called Bibme.org which is pretty accessible and allows you to make a bibliography. Citation machine (www.citationmachine.net is also fairly accessible. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2013, at 12:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > There is definitely software to assist you in creating a bibliography. I think I heard of one accessible one called OneNote. > But like you, I simply use websites or follow the old fashioned models off paper and build one myself by hand. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies > > Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create > bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or > www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a > braillenote. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Adriana Pulido To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies > > Hi ALL > > I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel > more > relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... > During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which > software > to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some > cases > I have inserted the references manually, which of course is > disgusting > and time-consuming. > I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at > the > university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. > What > do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible > for a > blind person? > > Thank you in advance! > > Adriana > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of > Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:32:40 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:32:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? Message-ID: As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? Thanks Laurel From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 14 18:38:16 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:38:16 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good grief! You better sue them! Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! That's terrible! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? Thanks Laurel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:42:17 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:42:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. Mauricio On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Good grief! > You better sue them! > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > That's terrible! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > Thanks > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:43:53 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:43:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but I can get away with email. :-) On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Good grief! > You better sue them! > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > That's terrible! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > Thanks > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 14 18:46:06 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:46:06 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> References: , <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: First of all, Laurel's female! Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. Mauricio On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Good grief! > You better sue them! > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > That's terrible! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > Thanks > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 14 18:46:51 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:46:51 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but I can get away with email. :-) On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Good grief! > You better sue them! > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > That's terrible! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > Thanks > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:49:10 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:49:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: , <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> now we're speaking the same language. suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. Mauricio. On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:50:21 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:50:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to contact. Laurel On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues > and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't > listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last > resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida > [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it > costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than > actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >> turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 14 18:51:52 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:51:52 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> References: , <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> , <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, but what you don't understand is that American universities don't do anything, until legal pressure is put on them! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? now we're speaking the same language. suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. Mauricio. On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Thu Feb 14 18:53:11 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:53:11 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> , Message-ID: You're not the only one! I wanted to attend ORU, (Oral Roberts University,) but they said that since I was blind, they wouldn't let me enter! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to contact. Laurel On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues > and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't > listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last > resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida > [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it > costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than > actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >> turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:53:33 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:53:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: then you're right that suing is your best bet. I'm sorry that i can't provide any further help, because i haven't needed that just yet. mauricio On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Laurel wrote: > I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it > got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have > accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, > and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the > university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get > me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't > list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the > modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my > degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out > that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to > contact. > Laurel > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues >> and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't >> listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last >> resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >> costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than >> actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:54:24 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:54:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree, but I want to do something, and aside from filing a university complaint, I don't know what to do. On 2/14/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > now we're speaking the same language. > suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. > > Mauricio. > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >> don't listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >> last resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >> costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than >> actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:56:12 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:56:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laurel, If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out of the situation. On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but > I can get away with email. :-) > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >> turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:57:37 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:57:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: , <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> , <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: what you don't understand it seems is that each situation must be analyzed carefully before any action is taken. now that she has expressed her situation and it is clear that complaints are not helping, I was the first to recommend legal actions, however, if we automatically reply suing for everything we do, we are taking any dialogue efforts as a failure even before they happen, and believe me or not, some people know how to dialogue, and everything has to be determined individually. On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Yeah, but what you don't understand is that American universities don't do anything, until legal pressure is put on them! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? > > now we're speaking the same language. > suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. > > Mauricio. > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:57:14 2013 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:57:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 76, Issue 19 Message-ID: <511d33a5.44c0ec0a.6162.ffffe368@mx.google.com> Happy Valentine's Day everyone. Hope it's filled with smiles and lchughter. Hope you all get lots of candy. From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 18:57:54 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:57:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Laurel, That is pretty blatant discrimination there. You should definitely start by talking with the chair of the French department. Explain what happened and provide written copies of your final exam and the exam that everyone else was given, if you can find it. Request that your grade be changed. Many universities have a formal process of petitioning for a grade change based on unjust testing or grading procedures. If you cannot get a satisfactory response from the department chair, talk to the dean or associate dean of the College of Arts and Sciences or whatever college the French department is in. Also talk with disability services and perhaps request to file an ADA complaint. Explain that the professor violated the ADA by not giving you access to equal educational and testing procedures. I agree that suing should only be considered if university-based avenues for complaining don't work. You can contact your NFB chapter president or state president, but frankly I think this case is serious enough that university authorities should work with you without needing convincing from NFB folks. Arielle On 2/14/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > now we're speaking the same language. > suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. > > Mauricio. > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >> don't listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >> last resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >> costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than >> actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:02:15 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:02:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you provide written documentation they won't have grounds to call you a liar. Your NFB chapter or state president should be able to help you. I think it's always best to start local, but you could also try contacting Scott LaBarre, who has represented plaintiffs in past NFB discrimination cases, at slabarre at labarrelaw.com If the discriminating professor is the chair of her department then go to the dean and also be sure to involve disability services or whatever ADA coordinator there is on campus. If you would be willing to tell us more about the prior complaints you've made, where you've complained and what grounds were given for ignoring the complaints, I might be able to offer more specific help. Arielle On 2/14/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Laurel, > That is pretty blatant discrimination there. You should definitely > start by talking with the chair of the French department. Explain what > happened and provide written copies of your final exam and the exam > that everyone else was given, if you can find it. Request that your > grade be changed. Many universities have a formal process of > petitioning for a grade change based on unjust testing or grading > procedures. If you cannot get a satisfactory response from the > department chair, talk to the dean or associate dean of the College of > Arts and Sciences or whatever college the French department is in. > Also talk with disability services and perhaps request to file an ADA > complaint. Explain that the professor violated the ADA by not giving > you access to equal educational and testing procedures. I agree that > suing should only be considered if university-based avenues for > complaining don't work. You can contact your NFB chapter president or > state president, but frankly I think this case is serious enough that > university authorities should work with you without needing convincing > from NFB folks. > Arielle > > On 2/14/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> now we're speaking the same language. >> suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. >> >> Mauricio. >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> First of all, Laurel's female! >>> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >>> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >>> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >>> don't listen. >>> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >>> last resort. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >>> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >>> costs a hex of a lot of money. >>> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue >>> than >>> actually suing. >>> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of >>> all. >>> >>> Mauricio >>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Good grief! >>>> You better sue them! >>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>> That's terrible! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >>>> to >>>> turn for help? >>>> >>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>>> Thanks >>>> Laurel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:03:04 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:03:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Josh, The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command first. I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of consequences from the university. On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Laurel, > > If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case > up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would > surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they > can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like > these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department > first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam > instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so > that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get > a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in > writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so > the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his > boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against > the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want > to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out > of the situation. > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >> to >> turn for help? >> >> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but >> I can get away with email. :-) >> >> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From hope.paulos at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:02:42 2013 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:02:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Discuss this with the department chair. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Laurel wrote: > What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but > I can get away with email. :-) > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >> turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:06:45 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel And Stockard) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:06:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, all good ideas but here's the problem, my professor who discriminated against me is the chair of the modern language department and she will not give me a copy of my final exam. Also, my grade is final, I just want the university to know that what they did is not okay. Also my disability counselor was unhelpful in situations similar to this previously and in fact takes the side of the University. Pretty sorry I know… I just wasn't sure what to do or who to turn to. Laurel and Stockard On Feb 14, 2013, at 13:02, Arielle Silverman wrote: > If you provide written documentation they won't have grounds to call you a liar. > Your NFB chapter or state president should be able to help you. I > think it's always best to start local, but you could also try > contacting Scott LaBarre, who has represented plaintiffs in past NFB > discrimination cases, at > slabarre at labarrelaw.com > If the discriminating professor is the chair of her department then go > to the dean and also be sure to involve disability services or > whatever ADA coordinator there is on campus. > If you would be willing to tell us more about the prior complaints > you've made, where you've complained and what grounds were given for > ignoring the complaints, I might be able to offer more specific help. > Arielle > > On 2/14/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Laurel, >> That is pretty blatant discrimination there. You should definitely >> start by talking with the chair of the French department. Explain what >> happened and provide written copies of your final exam and the exam >> that everyone else was given, if you can find it. Request that your >> grade be changed. Many universities have a formal process of >> petitioning for a grade change based on unjust testing or grading >> procedures. If you cannot get a satisfactory response from the >> department chair, talk to the dean or associate dean of the College of >> Arts and Sciences or whatever college the French department is in. >> Also talk with disability services and perhaps request to file an ADA >> complaint. Explain that the professor violated the ADA by not giving >> you access to equal educational and testing procedures. I agree that >> suing should only be considered if university-based avenues for >> complaining don't work. You can contact your NFB chapter president or >> state president, but frankly I think this case is serious enough that >> university authorities should work with you without needing convincing >> from NFB folks. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/14/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>> now we're speaking the same language. >>> suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. >>> >>> Mauricio. >>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >>>> First of all, Laurel's female! >>>> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >>>> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >>>> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >>>> don't listen. >>>> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >>>> last resort. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >>>> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >>>> costs a hex of a lot of money. >>>> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue >>>> than >>>> actually suing. >>>> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of >>>> all. >>>> >>>> Mauricio >>>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> You better sue them! >>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>> That's terrible! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >>>>> to >>>>> turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>>>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>>>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>>>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>>>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>>>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>>>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Laurel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:07:22 2013 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:07:22 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? Message-ID: <511d35eb.c258420a.6d66.6559@mx.google.com> Joshua, I know you have had problems with your college, but please don't make the assumption that all "American universities" are the same way. I'm sorry that your college did not accommodate you, but my freshmen year of college has been great! The disability center here has gone out of their way to honor my request for all Braille materials for my Mandarin course, and although I've had small problems with various professors, my overall experience have been positive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: First of all, Laurel's female! Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. Mauricio On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: Good grief! You better sue them! Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! That's terrible! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? Thanks Laurel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyliciou s%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:10:00 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:10:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <730907C2-1AE6-4CED-9959-3F79F3ADBC06@gmail.com> Message-ID: The disability office should have a copy of your final exam. If your counselor is unhelpful, go to somebody else in that office. And grades are never final, they can always be changed if appropriate cause is given for the change. Arielle On 2/14/13, Laurel And Stockard wrote: > Yeah, all good ideas but here's the problem, my professor who discriminated > against me is the chair of the modern language department and she will not > give me a copy of my final exam. Also, my grade is final, I just want the > university to know that what they did is not okay. Also my disability > counselor was unhelpful in situations similar to this previously and in fact > takes the side of the University. Pretty sorry I know… I just wasn't sure > what to do or who to turn to. > > Laurel and Stockard > > On Feb 14, 2013, at 13:02, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> If you provide written documentation they won't have grounds to call you a >> liar. >> Your NFB chapter or state president should be able to help you. I >> think it's always best to start local, but you could also try >> contacting Scott LaBarre, who has represented plaintiffs in past NFB >> discrimination cases, at >> slabarre at labarrelaw.com >> If the discriminating professor is the chair of her department then go >> to the dean and also be sure to involve disability services or >> whatever ADA coordinator there is on campus. >> If you would be willing to tell us more about the prior complaints >> you've made, where you've complained and what grounds were given for >> ignoring the complaints, I might be able to offer more specific help. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/14/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Laurel, >>> That is pretty blatant discrimination there. You should definitely >>> start by talking with the chair of the French department. Explain what >>> happened and provide written copies of your final exam and the exam >>> that everyone else was given, if you can find it. Request that your >>> grade be changed. Many universities have a formal process of >>> petitioning for a grade change based on unjust testing or grading >>> procedures. If you cannot get a satisfactory response from the >>> department chair, talk to the dean or associate dean of the College of >>> Arts and Sciences or whatever college the French department is in. >>> Also talk with disability services and perhaps request to file an ADA >>> complaint. Explain that the professor violated the ADA by not giving >>> you access to equal educational and testing procedures. I agree that >>> suing should only be considered if university-based avenues for >>> complaining don't work. You can contact your NFB chapter president or >>> state president, but frankly I think this case is serious enough that >>> university authorities should work with you without needing convincing >>> from NFB folks. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>>> now we're speaking the same language. >>>> suing has to be put to the table as a last resource. >>>> >>>> Mauricio. >>>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> First of all, Laurel's female! >>>>> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >>>>> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >>>>> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >>>>> don't listen. >>>>> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >>>>> last resort. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >>>>> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >>>>> costs a hex of a lot of money. >>>>> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue >>>>> than >>>>> actually suing. >>>>> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of >>>>> all. >>>>> >>>>> Mauricio >>>>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>> You better sue them! >>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>>> That's terrible! >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >>>>>> to >>>>>> turn for help? >>>>>> >>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>>>>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>>>>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>>>>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>>>>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>>>>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>>>>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Laurel >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Feb 14 19:12:46 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:12:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would not rush out and sue somebody. First, I would think that your school has some sort of procedure for filing complaints. You must have a Dean of Students, or Chancellor or provost of academic affairs etc. It is called different things at different schools. Or, there is the Chairperson of the Department in question. Do your homework, so to speak, and proceed from there. Dave At 12:43 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: >What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but >I can get away with email. :-) > >On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > > Good grief! > > You better sue them! > > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > > That's terrible! > > Blessings, Joshua > > ________________________________________ > > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > > turn for help? > > > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > > Thanks > > Laurel From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:31:02 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:31:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all the advice. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Let me answer a few questions that might clear up the picture a little bit. First, I am a French major. This is under the department of modern languages. This professor I have a problem with is the Chair person of the department of modern languages. I cannot go to my department chair, because she *is* the department chair. Second, I have attempted to file complaints with the university before, and they got me nowhere. I was told I could transfer elsewhere if I had so many problems, and that I *was* being properly accomodated in the past when I know for sure I wasn't. Third, I know for a fact that if my professor found out that I knew what she has done, she would retaliate against me. She has the power and ability to give me an F instead of the grade I got. fourth, I do not want to sue. I am now looking for NFB help/advice because I literally have nowhere else to turn, my unversity can't help me. Hope this helps make the picture a little more clear for all. I really do appreciate you al listening to me complain, I just have had enough. lol Thank God I can go elsewhere for Grad school. Laurel On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: > I would not rush out and sue somebody. First, I would think that > your school has some sort of procedure for filing complaints. You > must have a Dean of Students, or Chancellor or provost of academic > affairs etc. It is called different things at different > schools. Or, there is the Chairperson of the Department in > question. Do your homework, so to speak, and proceed from there. > > Dave > > At 12:43 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: >>What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but >>I can get away with email. :-) >> >>On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > Good grief! >> > You better sue them! >> > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> > That's terrible! >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >> > to >> > turn for help? >> > >> > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> > Thanks >> > Laurel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From theweird1 at centurylink.net Thu Feb 14 19:45:24 2013 From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:45:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901ce0aeb$d5a84490$80f8cdb0$@centurylink.net> Do you have any sort of documentation of these past grievances? Loren -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laurel Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to contact. Laurel On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my > issues and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities > don't listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is > the last resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida > [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, > it costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue > than actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >> to turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she >> did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down >> on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> ua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >> %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > aedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40 > gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. net From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:47:46 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:47:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <000901ce0aeb$d5a84490$80f8cdb0$@centurylink.net> References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> <000901ce0aeb$d5a84490$80f8cdb0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: for most of them, no. I could provide documentation on 2 or 3 out of probably 20, but that's still pretty good I think. I have at least 2 other major complaints that I can prove beyond a doubt. I'd have more but my university refuses to put things in writing. Laurel On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > Do you have any sort of documentation of these past grievances? > > Loren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laurel > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it got > me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have > accomodated > me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, and was told that > if > I didn't like it I was free to leave the university and go elsewhere. > Complaining to the university won't get me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, > with other issues which I won't list here, and it won't now. This professor > is also the chair of the modern languages department, and I am graduating > in > August with my degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even > finds out that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to > contact. > Laurel > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >> issues and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >> don't listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is >> the last resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, >> it costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue >> than actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >>> to turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she >>> did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down >>> on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for >>> help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >>> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40 >> gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From theweird1 at centurylink.net Thu Feb 14 19:50:04 2013 From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:50:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, then she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints against and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the chain of command first. Loren -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? Josh, The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command first. I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of consequences from the university. On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Laurel, > > If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case > up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would > surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they > can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like > these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department > first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam > instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so > that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get > a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in > writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so > the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his > boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against > the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want > to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out > of the situation. > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >> but I can get away with email. :-) >> >> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>> cua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> ua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >> %40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. net From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 19:55:19 2013 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:55:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. Laurel On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, then > she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints against > and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the > chain of command first. > > Loren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > Josh, > > The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who > descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it > comes > down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there > are > certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and > money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's > last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and > make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command > first. > I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not to > mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a more > dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will > not > stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see > Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things > which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and if > this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a > calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some > form of consequences from the university. > > On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Laurel, >> >> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >> of the situation. >> >> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Good grief! >>>> You better sue them! >>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>> That's terrible! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>> for > help? >>>> Thanks >>>> Laurel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>> cua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 20:25:38 2013 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:25:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: I agree. Documentation is the key. If you don't have it, start documenting everything. Ask classmates for their copy of the exam if the teacher won't give it to you. And the disabilities office should have a copy of yours if they converted it for you. If the university is not putting things in writing, then start sending letters that request a response. You can show proof that you asked for a response in writing but were not granted that. Sometimes putting a timeline such as "I request a response within 2 weeks of the date of receipt," can further help. Cindy On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, then > she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints against > and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the > chain of command first. > > Loren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > Josh, > > The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who > descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it > comes > down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there > are > certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and > money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's > last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and > make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command > first. > I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not to > mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a more > dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will > not > stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see > Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things > which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and if > this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a > calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some > form of consequences from the university. > > On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Laurel, >> >> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >> of the situation. >> >> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Good grief! >>>> You better sue them! >>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>> That's terrible! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>> for > help? >>>> Thanks >>>> Laurel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>> cua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 20:32:17 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:32:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: Hi, I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear that she wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter will do much for the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows what she's doing, and if you've beaten at your own game then she's got to know that this hasn't gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that though! Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of whatever college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences if the reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say that this is such a case. If not then definitely go through with the ADA stuff. It sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA complaints before, so you may need some lawyer's input if it comes down to it. The main point is that ADA or no, it's not right to mess with someone's GPA like this, and not wanting someone in a class just because they require some accomodations is an excuse a prof with no professionalism would make. How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully pick a university with much better attitudes and resources geared towards accomodating fairly. On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: > Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. > Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do > anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in > August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know > what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she > didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, > but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. > I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was > that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. > Laurel > > On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >> then >> she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints >> against >> and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the >> chain of command first. >> >> Loren >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >> to >> turn for help? >> >> Josh, >> >> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it >> comes >> down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there >> are >> certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and >> money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's >> last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and >> make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command >> first. >> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not >> to >> mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a >> more >> dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will >> not >> stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see >> Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things >> which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and >> if >> this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in >> a >> calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some >> form of consequences from the university. >> >> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Laurel, >>> >>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >>> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >>> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >>> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >>> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >>> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >>> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >>> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >>> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >>> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >>> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >>> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >>> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >>> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >>> of the situation. >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> You better sue them! >>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>> That's terrible! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>>> for >> help? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Laurel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>>> cua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>> ua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 20:36:19 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:36:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: Yes, Hannah is right. Not all colleges are bad. My freshman year has been going swimmingly for the most part, and we're even working through the tougher issues associated with Stats formulas and graphs and such. Everyone, especially my music professors, have been very willing to make accomodations based on what I've needed and work with me to find solutions to problems as they've come up. On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear > that she wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter > will do much for the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows > what she's doing, and if you've beaten at your own game then she's got > to know that this hasn't gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that > though! > > Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of > whatever college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. > Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences > if the reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say > that this is such a case. If not then definitely go through with the > ADA stuff. It sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA > complaints before, so you may need some lawyer's input if it comes > down to it. The main point is that ADA or no, it's not right to mess > with someone's GPA like this, and not wanting someone in a class just > because they require some accomodations is an excuse a prof with no > professionalism would make. > > How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? > Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully > pick a university with much better attitudes and resources geared > towards accomodating fairly. > > On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: >> Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. >> Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do >> anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in >> August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know >> what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she >> didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, >> but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. >> I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was >> that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. >> Laurel >> >> On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >>> then >>> she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints >>> against >>> and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the >>> chain of command first. >>> >>> Loren >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >>> to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> Josh, >>> >>> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >>> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it >>> comes >>> down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there >>> are >>> certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and >>> money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's >>> last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer >>> and >>> make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command >>> first. >>> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not >>> to >>> mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a >>> more >>> dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will >>> not >>> stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see >>> Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things >>> which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and >>> if >>> this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in >>> a >>> calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have >>> some >>> form of consequences from the university. >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Laurel, >>>> >>>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >>>> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >>>> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >>>> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >>>> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >>>> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >>>> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >>>> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >>>> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >>>> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >>>> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >>>> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >>>> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >>>> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >>>> of the situation. >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>> You better sue them! >>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>>> That's terrible! >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>> >>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>>>> for >>> help? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Laurel >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>>>> cua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>> ua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 20:40:28 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:40:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: And going off of Cindy's post, if you have past records of reasonable ADA complaints that were not acknowledged properly by the university save those as well. Sounds like the ds office is a little misinformed about the ADA or isn't following it or something. Try showing that to the dean of the college; if they have any knowledge of the ADA they might notice that something is really wrong, bigger than just this one descrimination event. Sometimes it takes showing documentation to the right person in order for a problem to actually be recognized. On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Yes, Hannah is right. Not all colleges are bad. My freshman year has > been going swimmingly for the most part, and we're even working > through the tougher issues associated with Stats formulas and graphs > and such. Everyone, especially my music professors, have been very > willing to make accomodations based on what I've needed and work with > me to find solutions to problems as they've come up. > > On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear >> that she wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter >> will do much for the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows >> what she's doing, and if you've beaten at your own game then she's got >> to know that this hasn't gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that >> though! >> >> Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of >> whatever college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. >> Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences >> if the reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say >> that this is such a case. If not then definitely go through with the >> ADA stuff. It sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA >> complaints before, so you may need some lawyer's input if it comes >> down to it. The main point is that ADA or no, it's not right to mess >> with someone's GPA like this, and not wanting someone in a class just >> because they require some accomodations is an excuse a prof with no >> professionalism would make. >> >> How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? >> Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully >> pick a university with much better attitudes and resources geared >> towards accomodating fairly. >> >> On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: >>> Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. >>> Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do >>> anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in >>> August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know >>> what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she >>> didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, >>> but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. >>> I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was >>> that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. >>> Laurel >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >>>> then >>>> she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints >>>> against >>>> and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow >>>> the >>>> chain of command first. >>>> >>>> Loren >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where >>>> to >>>> turn for help? >>>> >>>> Josh, >>>> >>>> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >>>> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it >>>> comes >>>> down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but >>>> there >>>> are >>>> certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, >>>> and >>>> money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not >>>> Laurel's >>>> last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer >>>> and >>>> make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command >>>> first. >>>> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not >>>> to >>>> mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a >>>> more >>>> dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean >>>> will >>>> not >>>> stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see >>>> Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things >>>> which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, >>>> and >>>> if >>>> this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it >>>> in >>>> a >>>> calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have >>>> some >>>> form of consequences from the university. >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Laurel, >>>>> >>>>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >>>>> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >>>>> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >>>>> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >>>>> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >>>>> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >>>>> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >>>>> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >>>>> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >>>>> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >>>>> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >>>>> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >>>>> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >>>>> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >>>>> of the situation. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>> >>>>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>>> You better sue them! >>>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>>>> That's terrible! >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>>>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>>>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>>>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>>>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>>>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>>>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>>>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>>>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>>>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>>>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>>>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in >>>>>>> groups. >>>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>>>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>>>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>>>>> for >>>> help? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Laurel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>>>>> cua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> ua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From dandrews at visi.com Thu Feb 14 21:06:20 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:06:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where do you live? What is the school? Make contact with your local NFB chapter or state affiliate. There may be other complaint venues. If it is a state school or university there may be some sort of commission or board of higher education, or it may be part of a larger system, with a complaint avenue. I don'[t know if the u.s. department of education would have anything either, but might. If this person retaliates, you have more ammunition -- but you need to get as much as you can in writing, so it isn't your word against hers. Further, if you do anything, then she will know -- you ultimately can't have it both ways, will have to either accept, or go public with complaints. Dave At 01:31 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: >Thanks for all the advice. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. >Let me answer a few questions that might clear up the picture a little >bit. >First, I am a French major. This is under the department of modern >languages. This professor I have a problem with is the Chair person of >the department of modern languages. I cannot go to my department >chair, because she *is* the department chair. >Second, I have attempted to file complaints with the university >before, and they got me nowhere. I was told I could transfer elsewhere >if I had so many problems, and that I *was* being properly accomodated >in the past when I know for sure I wasn't. >Third, I know for a fact that if my professor found out that I knew >what she has done, she would retaliate against me. She has the power >and ability to give me an F instead of the grade I got. >fourth, I do not want to sue. I am now looking for NFB help/advice >because I literally have nowhere else to turn, my unversity can't help >me. > >Hope this helps make the picture a little more clear for all. I really >do appreciate you al listening to me complain, I just have had enough. >lol Thank God I can go elsewhere for Grad school. >Laurel > >On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: > > I would not rush out and sue somebody. First, I would think that > > your school has some sort of procedure for filing complaints. You > > must have a Dean of Students, or Chancellor or provost of academic > > affairs etc. It is called different things at different > > schools. Or, there is the Chairperson of the Department in > > question. Do your homework, so to speak, and proceed from there. > > > > Dave > > > > At 12:43 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: > >>What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but > >>I can get away with email. :-) > >> > >>On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> > Good grief! > >> > You better sue them! > >> > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > >> > That's terrible! > >> > Blessings, Joshua > >> > ________________________________________ > >> > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > >> > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where > >> > to > >> > turn for help? > >> > > >> > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > >> > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > >> > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > >> > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > >> > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > >> > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > >> > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > >> > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > >> > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > >> > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > >> > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > >> > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > >> > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > >> > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > >> > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > >> > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > >> > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > >> > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > >> > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > >> > Thanks > >> > Laurel From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 21:16:51 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:16:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is more than one way to complain within the university. When you say you have complained in the past and the complaints were ignored, to whom did you complain and was it a formal written complaint? Department chairs have to report to deans and even if they are tenured, don't have ultimate final say over your grades. Arielle On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: > Where do you live? What is the school? > > Make contact with your local NFB chapter or state affiliate. There > may be other complaint venues. If it is a state school or university > there may be some sort of commission or board of higher education, or > it may be part of a larger system, with a complaint avenue. I don'[t > know if the u.s. department of education would have anything either, but > might. > > If this person retaliates, you have more ammunition -- but you need > to get as much as you can in writing, so it isn't your word against hers. > > Further, if you do anything, then she will know -- you ultimately > can't have it both ways, will have to either accept, or go public > with complaints. > > Dave > > At 01:31 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: >>Thanks for all the advice. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. >>Let me answer a few questions that might clear up the picture a little >>bit. >>First, I am a French major. This is under the department of modern >>languages. This professor I have a problem with is the Chair person of >>the department of modern languages. I cannot go to my department >>chair, because she *is* the department chair. >>Second, I have attempted to file complaints with the university >>before, and they got me nowhere. I was told I could transfer elsewhere >>if I had so many problems, and that I *was* being properly accomodated >>in the past when I know for sure I wasn't. >>Third, I know for a fact that if my professor found out that I knew >>what she has done, she would retaliate against me. She has the power >>and ability to give me an F instead of the grade I got. >>fourth, I do not want to sue. I am now looking for NFB help/advice >>because I literally have nowhere else to turn, my unversity can't help >>me. >> >>Hope this helps make the picture a little more clear for all. I really >>do appreciate you al listening to me complain, I just have had enough. >>lol Thank God I can go elsewhere for Grad school. >>Laurel >> >>On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: >> > I would not rush out and sue somebody. First, I would think that >> > your school has some sort of procedure for filing complaints. You >> > must have a Dean of Students, or Chancellor or provost of academic >> > affairs etc. It is called different things at different >> > schools. Or, there is the Chairperson of the Department in >> > question. Do your homework, so to speak, and proceed from there. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 12:43 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: >> >>What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but >> >>I can get away with email. :-) >> >> >> >>On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> > Good grief! >> >> > You better sue them! >> >> > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> >> > That's terrible! >> >> > Blessings, Joshua >> >> > ________________________________________ >> >> > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> >> > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> >> > where >> >> > to >> >> > turn for help? >> >> > >> >> > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> >> > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> >> > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> >> > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >> >> > have >> >> > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> >> > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> >> > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> >> > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> >> > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> >> > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> >> > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> >> > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in >> >> > groups. >> >> > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> >> > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> >> > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> >> > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >> >> > would >> >> > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> >> > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> >> > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for >> >> > help? >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Laurel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 21:40:54 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:40:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: , <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B5DA439D83E4A85B67C22FBAA7C2D64@OwnerPC> Joshua, No, in this situation, I believe suing isn't a good idea; it’s a long money intense process and you have to have evidence it was a bad decision on the professor's part. I agree she should contact Scott Labarre, but only for legal and advocacy advice, not to sue. I also believe going up the chain of command to the dean and other administrators is a wise idea before even bring in lots of third parties. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? First of all, Laurel's female! Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my issues and sometimes that doesn't work. I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities don't listen. You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the last resort. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it costs a hex of a lot of money. he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than actually suing. I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. Mauricio On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Good grief! > You better sue them! > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > That's terrible! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? > Thanks > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 21:46:36 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:46:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: Laurel, Wow, which school is this? Have they had other blind students before? How do you usually take language tests? I would think a foreign language would be very difficult to take with jaws. That is terrible your exam was much harder than the rest. If she was hard to work with, why couldn't you get another professor? Is she the only prof teaching what you needed? Sometimes, I found switching professors a good option if prof A doesn't cooperate. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Laurel Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to contact. Laurel On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, Laurel's female! > Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my > issues > and sometimes that doesn't work. > I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities > don't > listen. > You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the > last > resort. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida > [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > where to turn for help? > > suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it > costs a hex of a lot of money. > he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue than > actually suing. > I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. > > Mauricio > On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Good grief! >> You better sue them! >> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >> That's terrible! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >> turn for help? >> >> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >> Thanks >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jim.hulme at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 21:56:24 2013 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:56:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.uta.edu/engineering/about/contacts-maps.php Perhaps this is helpful link for more info. on contacting either the Dean of Students or Provost at the University of Texas Arlington. Jimmy Hulme jim.hulme at gmail.com On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > There is more than one way to complain within the university. When you > say you have complained in the past and the complaints were ignored, > to whom did you complain and was it a formal written complaint? > Department chairs have to report to deans and even if they are > tenured, don't have ultimate final say over your grades. > Arielle > > On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: > > Where do you live? What is the school? > > > > Make contact with your local NFB chapter or state affiliate. There > > may be other complaint venues. If it is a state school or university > > there may be some sort of commission or board of higher education, or > > it may be part of a larger system, with a complaint avenue. I don'[t > > know if the u.s. department of education would have anything either, but > > might. > > > > If this person retaliates, you have more ammunition -- but you need > > to get as much as you can in writing, so it isn't your word against hers. > > > > Further, if you do anything, then she will know -- you ultimately > > can't have it both ways, will have to either accept, or go public > > with complaints. > > > > Dave > > > > At 01:31 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: > >>Thanks for all the advice. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. > >>Let me answer a few questions that might clear up the picture a little > >>bit. > >>First, I am a French major. This is under the department of modern > >>languages. This professor I have a problem with is the Chair person of > >>the department of modern languages. I cannot go to my department > >>chair, because she *is* the department chair. > >>Second, I have attempted to file complaints with the university > >>before, and they got me nowhere. I was told I could transfer elsewhere > >>if I had so many problems, and that I *was* being properly accomodated > >>in the past when I know for sure I wasn't. > >>Third, I know for a fact that if my professor found out that I knew > >>what she has done, she would retaliate against me. She has the power > >>and ability to give me an F instead of the grade I got. > >>fourth, I do not want to sue. I am now looking for NFB help/advice > >>because I literally have nowhere else to turn, my unversity can't help > >>me. > >> > >>Hope this helps make the picture a little more clear for all. I really > >>do appreciate you al listening to me complain, I just have had enough. > >>lol Thank God I can go elsewhere for Grad school. > >>Laurel > >> > >>On 2/14/13, David Andrews wrote: > >> > I would not rush out and sue somebody. First, I would think that > >> > your school has some sort of procedure for filing complaints. You > >> > must have a Dean of Students, or Chancellor or provost of academic > >> > affairs etc. It is called different things at different > >> > schools. Or, there is the Chairperson of the Department in > >> > question. Do your homework, so to speak, and proceed from there. > >> > > >> > Dave > >> > > >> > At 12:43 PM 2/14/2013, you wrote: > >> >>What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, but > >> >>I can get away with email. :-) > >> >> > >> >>On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> >> > Good grief! > >> >> > You better sue them! > >> >> > Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > >> >> > That's terrible! > >> >> > Blessings, Joshua > >> >> > ________________________________________ > >> >> > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > >> >> > [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > >> >> > where > >> >> > to > >> >> > turn for help? > >> >> > > >> >> > As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated > against > >> >> > by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you > fellow > >> >> > listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor > last > >> >> > semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I > >> >> > have > >> >> > just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than > she > >> >> > gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much > >> >> > harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my > >> >> > Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in > >> >> > French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a > >> >> > dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed > >> >> > they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that > >> >> > what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in > >> >> > groups. > >> >> > She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > >> >> > question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers > on > >> >> > the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > >> >> > students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I > >> >> > would > >> >> > have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she > did, > >> >> > there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on > >> >> > this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for > >> >> > help? > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Laurel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 21:58:18 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:58:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <484C197E-74FE-4C67-B8B4-46985894E966@gmail.com> Message-ID: If the dean is not responsive either, it is possible to go even further up to the chancellor for student affairs, and then even to the president or provost. Arielle On 2/14/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Laurel, > Wow, which school is this? Have they had other blind students before? > How do you usually take language tests? I would think a foreign language > would be very difficult to take with jaws. > > That is terrible your exam was much harder than the rest. If she was hard to > > work with, why couldn't you get another professor? Is she the only prof > teaching what you needed? Sometimes, I found switching professors a good > option if prof A doesn't cooperate. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Laurel > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > > turn for help? > > I've filed University complaints regarding other issues before, and it > got me nowhere. I was told that I was a lier, that in fact that have > accomodated me, when in the past I have been discriminated against, > and was told that if I didn't like it I was free to leave the > university and go elsewhere. Complaining to the university won't get > me anywhere. It hasn't in the past, with other issues which I won't > list here, and it won't now. This professor is also the chair of the > modern languages department, and I am graduating in August with my > degree in French. She has the power to retaliate if she even finds out > that I know. I know the NFB can help me, but I don't know who to > contact. > Laurel > > On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> First of all, Laurel's female! >> Second of all, I've tried going to colleges in the past to rectify my >> issues >> and sometimes that doesn't work. >> I hope she's able to get somewhere, but most of the time, universities >> don't >> listen. >> You've got to use the ADA and the IDEA as your defense and suing is the >> last >> resort. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida >> [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> suing is not an easy thing to do, and let me tell you something sir, it >> costs a hex of a lot of money. >> he might have a much better success by bargaining and treating to sue >> than >> actually suing. >> I recommend you present your case to university authorities first of all. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Good grief! >>> You better sue them! >>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>> That's terrible! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to >>> turn for help? >>> >>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I have >>> just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes than she >>> gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and much >>> harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I would >>> have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing she did, >>> there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her down on >>> this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to for help? >>> Thanks >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 22:32:28 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:32:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Help Requested with Research Message-ID: Hi all, My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a doctoral student in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of Colorado. My colleagues and I would appreciate your help with completing a series of brief online studies. We are looking for legally blind adults to complete three short studies: the first asking about your personal life experiences, the second involving a set of math problems, and the third involving answering some survey questions. The studies are all on one website and will take no more than 45 minutes to complete in total. In appreciation of your time, you will have the opportunity to enter a raffle drawing to win a $50 gift certificate to a merchant of your choice. All of your responses in the study will be anonymous and confidential. To begin please go to: http://ucsas.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_eaLf4NKHUvEc2u9 Thank you as always for your assistance. Best, Arielle Silverman, M.A. Doctoral Candidate, Social Psychology Department of Psychology and Neuroscience 345 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0345 arielle.silverman at colorado.edu From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 23:50:13 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:50:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Mdpobc] Fwd: NFB TO AWARD 30 SCHOLARSHIPS IN 2013 In-Reply-To: References: <1F33B913C1E79E48AB91A44D75020F380816481A@BLUPRD0711MB413.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <009101ce0b0e$08d7ef60$1a87ce20$@gmail.com> FYI: From: Mdpobc [mailto:mdpobc-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Trudy Pickrel Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:37 PM To: MDPOBC Subject: [Mdpobc] Fwd: NFB TO AWARD 30 SCHOLARSHIPS IN 2013 Trudy L Pickrel President MD Parents Blind Children Begin forwarded message: From: "Rovig, Lorraine" Date: February 14, 2013, 2:33:11 PM EST To: "tlpickrel at hotmail.com" Cc: "State President, Maryland" Subject: NFB TO AWARD 30 SCHOLARSHIPS IN 2013 Please help us pass the word… The National Federation of the Blind is now accepting applications to our national scholarship program from freshmen beginning college this fall on up through graduate students. The 30 scholarships range in value from $3,000 up to $12,000, and include a trip to Orlando this July for the world’s largest convention for the blind. To learn more and to apply, please visit www.nfb.org/scholarships. Applications must be received by March 31, 2013. Membership is not required. A one-page flyer on this national program is attached. Please pass this scholarship information on to eligible students, counselors, teachers, parents, college disability offices, libraries for the blind, your group’s listserv, offices for assessing equipment for the blind or visually impaired, radio reading services, the state announcement section of NFB-NEWSLINE®, and any other outlet you think of that will help blind students discover this program. Email: scholarships at nfb.org Website: www.nfb.org/scholarships Cordially, Lorraine Rovig, Assistant to Patti Chang, Esq. Chairperson, NFB Scholarship Committee NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Office: (410) 659-9314, x2415 E-mail: scholarships at nfb.org Website: www.nfb.org/scholarships P. S.: The application period for the NFB Scholarship Program for 2013 ends March 31, 2013. To help us help blind students, text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill anytime. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FLYER - 2013 NFB National Scholarship Program.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 51200 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Mdpobc mailing list Mdpobc at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mdpobc_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Mdpobc: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/mdpobc_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 23:56:20 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:56:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle, I think you had some great points. In high school, they could have a case by case basis as not all our classes need extended time. I think the implication is bad that taking a test in braille means we are slow readers and will always be slow. I know some rather fast braille readers who would likely finish tests faster than sighted students. Anyway, good discussion. if we use any accomodation, we should think about if it helps or hurts us in the longrun. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time Hi all, The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille or large print tests. As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation and employment myself. I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 01:30:18 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:30:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009801ce0b1c$03d62a00$0b827e00$@gmail.com> Ashley, I agree. Extended time has definitely helped me in math classes, but I don't usually need it in other classes. This is in high school, where extended time accomodations (at least for me) are on a case-by-case basis. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time Hi Arielle, I think you had some great points. In high school, they could have a case by case basis as not all our classes need extended time. I think the implication is bad that taking a test in braille means we are slow readers and will always be slow. I know some rather fast braille readers who would likely finish tests faster than sighted students. Anyway, good discussion. if we use any accomodation, we should think about if it helps or hurts us in the longrun. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time Hi all, The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or for Braille or large print tests. As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily* grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation and employment myself. I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as sightedd colleagues. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 02:10:20 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:10:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <000001ce0b21$9c63de20$d52b9a60$@gmail.com> Laurel and all, Laurel, let me first say that I am very sorry to hear of this discrimination and find it sad that this kind of blatant discrimination still exists in our colleges and universities. I agree with all that has been said here, and I would definitely try taking the courses of action Kaiti, Arielle and others have suggested in this thread. You may also want to contact our national office and talk with a member of the Advocacy and Policy (also called Governmental Affairs) team if not Dr. Maurer himself. Although your state affiliate could probably do more, it may be good for the national office to at least know that this (to put it bluntly) crap is going on so they could step in if need be. If it comes down to this, Scott LaBarre, Dan Goldstein or any of the other lawyers who work with the Federation could represent you in court. However, I agree with Ashley that you might not want to sue quite yet, but that is an option. I emphasize that suing is an option because this may be your last resort if the people at your college still won't listen to you. This question has sort of been asked before in this thread, but how far up the chain of command at your school did you go in making your complaints? If you can go higher up the preverbial ladder before getting lawyers involved, I would definitely try that first. Also, I currently serve on the Board of Directors of the Maryland Association of Blind Students (MDABS.) I am also the co-Chair of our Public Relations Committee. I know you don't live in Maryland, but if there is anything our student division can do to help you in fighting this discrimination, please don't hesitate to let us know. Just write to me off-list or call me and I'll see what I can do. I have provided my phone number in my signature below. This is definitely discrimination, and I believe it should be fought. I hope your issues can be resolved quickly and without too much trouble for you. Good luck, Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students: a Division of thE National Federation of the Blind of Maryland Phone: (443) 547-2409 Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? Hi, I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear that she wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter will do much for the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows what she's doing, and if you've beaten at your own game then she's got to know that this hasn't gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that though! Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of whatever college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences if the reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say that this is such a case. If not then definitely go through with the ADA stuff. It sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA complaints before, so you may need some lawyer's input if it comes down to it. The main point is that ADA or no, it's not right to mess with someone's GPA like this, and not wanting someone in a class just because they require some accomodations is an excuse a prof with no professionalism would make. How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully pick a university with much better attitudes and resources geared towards accomodating fairly. On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: > Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. > Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do > anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in > August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know > what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she > didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, > but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. > I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was > that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. > Laurel > > On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >> then she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring >> complaints against and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But >> you should follow the chain of command first. >> >> Loren >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >> where to turn for help? >> >> Josh, >> >> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If >> it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one >> thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before >> putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm >> assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it >> wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss >> without going through the chain of command first. >> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, >> not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the >> issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A >> sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty >> member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College >> administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and >> will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor >> really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized >> way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of >> consequences from the university. >> >> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Laurel, >>> >>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the >>> case up and running till after this semester was over and your grade >>> would surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see >>> if they can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in >>> situations like these. Make an appointment with the dean of the >>> language department first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you >>> have a copy of your exam instructions or the disabilities office has >>> them on file bring them so that you can show the dean. It would >>> also be helpful if you could get a sighted student to describe >>> either verbally in the meeting or in writing which they can give to >>> you what their exam procedures were so the dean could compare. If >>> the dean refuses to do nothing go to his boss, and if that doesn't >>> work then I'd look into legal action against the university, but >>> follow the chain of command first. You don't want to overstep >>> people who could help you without making a bigger deal out of the situation. >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> You better sue them! >>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>> That's terrible! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated >>>>> against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of >>>>> you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French >>>>> professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, >>>>> basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams >>>>> and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a >>>>> different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I >>>>> had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 >>>>> questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced >>>>> without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody >>>>> else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out >>>>> yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers >>>>> on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin >>>>> her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I >>>>> turn to for >> help? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Laurel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>> pc >>>>> cua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockar >>>>> d% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40p >>>> cc >>>> ua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 >>>> 04 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4 >> 0gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From NMPBRAT at aol.com Fri Feb 15 04:25:34 2013 From: NMPBRAT at aol.com (NMPBRAT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:25:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for h... Message-ID: <4f5d1.576c522f.3e4f12bd@aol.com> Laurel, I think many people have made good points. I'm going to make just a few suggestions.....based upon my own experiences as a legally blind individual who has had discrimination issues at the collegiate level as well as my special education knowledge and the law. 1. Like many have said, follow the chain of command. 2. Always, always have a witness at any meetings you have. Take a friend, family member, etc....someone who is not directly affiliated with the university (employee of the university). Yes, you want someone from disability services (or whatever they call it at your school) but you can't rely on them as a witness. Give your witness the job of taking notes...they aren't there to speak for you but simply as an observer and witness to what is said. Sometimes, in the moment, when you are dealing with situations like this, you can easily miss something that another person could easily pick up on. Also, it holds those in the room accountable to what they say and shows that you are serious about it. 3. Follow up meetings with written letters, restating what was discussed at the meeting...just provides further documentation later on and also that you are serious about your complaints. It holds people accountable to what was discussed. 4. Decide how important this is to you and how much time and effort you want to put into it. Determine whether it could impact further education that you want to pursue, even if it is at another college. Going to grad school, at least in some fields, can require certain grades or GPA's in order to be accepted. You'll want to figure out how this might impact that for you and that may help you to decide how far you want to pursue this. Like people have said, grades can be changed....even when they are considered "final"....they really aren't, they can always be changed. 5. Suing is the last resort. With that said though....I would highly encourage you to either contact a "savvy" NFB person, maybe at the state level/national level...or get legal advice from an attorney. This doesn't mean because you speak to one that you have to sue. I have found in my experiences that simply learning some specific "lingo" or terminology or legal-type phrases...puts you in a completely different light to the people you are addressing yourself to. It shows that you have "done your homework" and that you aren't "playing around". Even simply saying "my attorney feels" or "my attorney stated" along with specific lingo can definitely turn heads. My point in telling you this is....I have had luck with this....which has then moved things along...and has prevented me from having to actually do any kind of legal action. 6. Finally, I would just say that....yes, you need to take care of you first... but also remember that whatever you choose to do can potentially be very beneficial to those that may follow you in the future at the college or with that professor. You can be the trailblazer...so don't think that just because your graduating that you taking action to put this professor in her place has no value.....it without a doubt does have great value! Just something to think about. I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do. Best wishes, Nicole In a message dated 2/14/2013 2:56:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, laurel.stockard at gmail.com writes: Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. Laurel On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, then > she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring complaints against > and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But you should follow the > chain of command first. > > Loren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > Josh, > > The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who > descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If it > comes > down to it and that's what must be done then that's one thing, but there > are > certain steps which should be taken before putting the time, effort, and > money into suing a person. Plus, I'm assuming that this is not Laurel's > last semester in school, so it wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and > make a bunch of legal fuss without going through the chain of command > first. > I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, not to > mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the issue in a more > dignified and civilized way before going to court. A sensible dean will > not > stand for descrimination from a faculty member, especially if they see > Laurel in an appointment. College administrators are mindful of things > which could causse lawsuits and will do what they can to avoid them, and if > this French professor really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a > calm, civilized way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some > form of consequences from the university. > > On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> Laurel, >> >> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the case >> up and running till after this semester was over and your grade would >> surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see if they >> can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in situations like >> these. Make an appointment with the dean of the language department >> first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you have a copy of your exam >> instructions or the disabilities office has them on file bring them so >> that you can show the dean. It would also be helpful if you could get >> a sighted student to describe either verbally in the meeting or in >> writing which they can give to you what their exam procedures were so >> the dean could compare. If the dean refuses to do nothing go to his >> boss, and if that doesn't work then I'd look into legal action against >> the university, but follow the chain of command first. You don't want >> to overstep people who could help you without making a bigger deal out >> of the situation. >> >> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Good grief! >>>> You better sue them! >>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>> That's terrible! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated against >>>> by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of you fellow >>>> listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French professor last >>>> semester. With out making this too long of a story, basically, I >>>> have just found out that she gave me different exams and quizzes >>>> than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a different and >>>> much harder final exam for example. On the final, I had to go to my >>>> Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 questions, in >>>> French of course, one page responses single spaced without use of a >>>> dictionary. I did not know then what everybody else did, I assumed >>>> they did the same as me. I found out yesterday, accidentally, that >>>> what she did was have everybody else come to class and get in groups. >>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers on >>>> the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin her >>>> down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I turn to >>>> for > help? >>>> Thanks >>>> Laurel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pc >>>> cua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> ua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 04:36:22 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:36:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: <000001ce0b21$9c63de20$d52b9a60$@gmail.com> References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> <000001ce0b21$9c63de20$d52b9a60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Laurel, Chris is right on. In terms of the NFB, I'd definitely let them know so they can keep your school on their radar for the future. Maybe not now while you're dealing with the issue, unless of course you choose to seek the help of the NFB for advice on the issue or about getting Labarre or Goldstein's advice, but they should definitely know. However, obviously getting your academic stuff taken care of comes first. I know it can be frustrating, (a friend and I went through some early stages of the complaint process about a professor last semester), but stick with it. What your prof did wasn't right, especially since she has effected your GPA in a class you need for your major. Best of luck, and let us know if you reach any success. On 2/14/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Laurel and all, > > Laurel, let me first say that I am very sorry to hear of this > discrimination > and find it sad that this kind of blatant discrimination still exists in > our > colleges and universities. I agree with all that has been said here, and I > would definitely try taking the courses of action Kaiti, Arielle and others > have suggested in this thread. > > You may also want to contact our national office and talk with a member of > the Advocacy and Policy (also called Governmental Affairs) team if not Dr. > Maurer himself. Although your state affiliate could probably do more, it > may > be good for the national office to at least know that this (to put it > bluntly) crap is going on so they could step in if need be. If it comes > down > to this, Scott LaBarre, Dan Goldstein or any of the other lawyers who work > with the Federation could represent you in court. However, I agree with > Ashley that you might not want to sue quite yet, but that is an option. I > emphasize that suing is an option because this may be your last resort if > the people at your college still won't listen to you. This question has > sort > of been asked before in this thread, but how far up the chain of command at > your school did you go in making your complaints? If you can go higher up > the preverbial ladder before getting lawyers involved, I would definitely > try that first. > > Also, I currently serve on the Board of Directors of the Maryland > Association of Blind Students (MDABS.) I am also the co-Chair of our Public > Relations Committee. I know you don't live in Maryland, but if there is > anything our student division can do to help you in fighting this > discrimination, please don't hesitate to let us know. Just write to me > off-list or call me and I'll see what I can do. I have provided my phone > number in my signature below. This is definitely discrimination, and I > believe it should be fought. I hope your issues can be resolved quickly and > without too much trouble for you. > > Good luck, > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students: a Division of thE National > Federation of the Blind of Maryland > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to > turn for help? > > Hi, > > I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear that she > wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter will do much for > the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows what she's doing, and > if you've beaten at your own game then she's got to know that this hasn't > gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that though! > > Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of whatever > college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. > Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences if the > reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say that this is > such a case. If not then definitely go through with the ADA stuff. It > sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA complaints before, so you > may > need some lawyer's input if it comes down to it. The main point is that > ADA > or no, it's not right to mess with someone's GPA like this, and not wanting > someone in a class just because they require some accomodations is an > excuse > a prof with no professionalism would make. > > How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? > Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully pick a > university with much better attitudes and resources geared towards > accomodating fairly. > > On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: >> Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. >> Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do >> anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in >> August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know >> what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she >> didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, >> but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. >> I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was >> that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. >> Laurel >> >> On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >>> then she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring >>> complaints against and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But >>> you should follow the chain of command first. >>> >>> Loren >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> Shelton >>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>> where to turn for help? >>> >>> Josh, >>> >>> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >>> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If >>> it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one >>> thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before >>> putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm >>> assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it >>> wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss >>> without going through the chain of command first. >>> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, >>> not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the >>> issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A >>> sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty >>> member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College >>> administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and >>> will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor >>> really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized >>> way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of >>> consequences from the university. >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Laurel, >>>> >>>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the >>>> case up and running till after this semester was over and your grade >>>> would surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see >>>> if they can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in >>>> situations like these. Make an appointment with the dean of the >>>> language department first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you >>>> have a copy of your exam instructions or the disabilities office has >>>> them on file bring them so that you can show the dean. It would >>>> also be helpful if you could get a sighted student to describe >>>> either verbally in the meeting or in writing which they can give to >>>> you what their exam procedures were so the dean could compare. If >>>> the dean refuses to do nothing go to his boss, and if that doesn't >>>> work then I'd look into legal action against the university, but >>>> follow the chain of command first. You don't want to overstep >>>> people who could help you without making a bigger deal out of the > situation. >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>> >>>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>> You better sue them! >>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>>> That's terrible! >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>> >>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated >>>>>> against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of >>>>>> you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French >>>>>> professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, >>>>>> basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams >>>>>> and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a >>>>>> different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I >>>>>> had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 >>>>>> questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced >>>>>> without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody >>>>>> else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out >>>>>> yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else > come to class and get in groups. >>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers >>>>>> on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin >>>>>> her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I >>>>>> turn to for >>> help? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Laurel >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>>> pc >>>>>> cua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockar >>>>>> d% >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40p >>>>> cc >>>>> ua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 >>>>> 04 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Fri Feb 15 04:52:33 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:52:33 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] What's the latest? Message-ID: What's the latest on the Goodwill boycott? I haven't heard any news! Thanks, Joshua From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 15:36:48 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:36:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: <5222604384066012858@unknownmsgid> References: <511c2751.839f320a.53be.2fe7@mx.google.com> <5222604384066012858@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Thank you guys for your suggestions. 2013/2/14, christopher nusbaum : > There is a website called Bibme.org which is pretty accessible and > allows you to make a bibliography. Citation machine > (www.citationmachine.net is also fairly accessible. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 14, 2013, at 12:17 AM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> Sophie, >> There is definitely software to assist you in creating a bibliography. I >> think I heard of one accessible one called OneNote. >> But like you, I simply use websites or follow the old fashioned models off >> paper and build one myself by hand. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies >> >> Adriana, what do you mean by software? Whenever I need to create >> bibliographies, I simply use websites such as www.easybib.com or >> www.knightcite.com, which are completely accessible using a >> braillenote. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Adriana Pulido > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:40:58 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies >> >> Hi ALL >> >> I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel >> more >> relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... >> During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which >> software >> to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some >> cases >> I have inserted the references manually, which of course is >> disgusting >> and time-consuming. >> I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at >> the >> university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. >> What >> do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible >> for a >> blind person? >> >> Thank you in advance! >> >> Adriana >> >> -- >> Adriana Pulido >> Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad >> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of >> Florida. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 21:01:20 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:01:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good blind/disability events you know of? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B2F5745A8CC483EA2A75148C6A38E90@OwnerPC> Phil, Can you send me the list when you compile it? I'm always interested in learning about new resources too. My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Philip S Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Good blind/disability events you know of? Hey guys, I am helping someone compiling a list of good events related to blind people/people with disabilities. Besides the national and state conventions, do you know other great events? This can include both serious and fun events, ranging from conferences such as Baruch College Computer Center for Visually Impaired People annual employment and technology conference, to workshops such as assistive technology demonstration workshops, to performances such as Lighthouse at the Met concert in New York, to shows such as podcasts? Thanks for sharing!! Phil _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:07:04 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:07:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5DEA2B03716B4AE6B1E8EE4CDF6FC69B@OwnerPC> Hello, I cannot recommend software as I don't know which ones are accessible. But I can suggest a website. Its called the Citation machine. I cannot remember its website, but googling brings it up immediately. Good luck on the grad project. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Adriana Pulido Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Creating bibliographies Hi ALL I finally chose a topic for my graduate project and I now feel more relaxed, although I'm still behind in terms of time... During my master's, I have had some trouble in deciding which software to use in order to create bibliographies for my papers. In some cases I have inserted the references manually, which of course is disgusting and time-consuming. I'm trying to use RefWorks, which is the software they use at the university libraries, but my advisor suggested me to use Zotero. What do you guys suggest? Which software do you find more accessible for a blind person? Thank you in advance! Adriana -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:32:08 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:32:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <984A8FC9D03D4FEB9C88B4C5ADECF08C@OwnerPC> Arie, I agree; you need something like a poem in braille as you need to see the line structure and where commas are. Listening to it messes up the form and if a human reads it, its like they interpret it for you. I can meditate with a poem in braille though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 1:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille I forgot, for me, even something like reading poetry you need braille. Yes you can obviously do it electronic, but I don't know how to explain, but I somehow connect more with the poem and can really meditate properly about a poem when its in braille. On 2/1/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in > pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm > listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry > on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to > read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With > jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences > are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go > back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to > say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a > book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I > have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I > find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder > to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use > something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is > written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written > at the beginning of the line. > Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example > the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille > is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more. > Ari > On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Ari! >> In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program >> like that. >> At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe >> Braille, >> as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for >> some >> reason. >> That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis >> [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a >> library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books >> on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. >> Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is >> what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille >> books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy >> braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have >> bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a >> model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille >> and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from >> there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, >> because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they >> do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is >> they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as >> part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have >> seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the >> crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have >> relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the >> books to you. >> Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it >> in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the >> online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone >> or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will >> see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, >> but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here >> you'll be very happy. >> http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ >> Ari >> On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Braille is an interesting topic! >>> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >>> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in >>> college.) >>> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >>> Those chapters are so long! >>> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >>> I don't need all of that! >>> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave >>> out >>> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the >>> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >>> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need >>> to >>> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >>> That's not efficient at all! >>> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as >>> opposed to audio! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman >>> [arielle71 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>> >>> Hi all, >>> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >>> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >>> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >>> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >>> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >>> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >>> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >>> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >>> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >>> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >>> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >>> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >>> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >>> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Ari, >>>> >>>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>>> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>>> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>>> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>>> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>>> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>>> >>>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>>> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Hi Ari and all, >>>>> >>>>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>>>> >>>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in >>>>>> the >>>>>> United States. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>>> library >>>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>>> learning >>>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>>> $20-30, >>>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>>> audio, >>>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>>> thing! >>>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>>> couldn't >>>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal >>>>>>> books >>>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible >>>>>>> prices >>>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an >>>>>>> electronic >>>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>>> Ari >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:35:22 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:35:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille In-Reply-To: References: <510bb7aa.110e650a.3beb.5512@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arie, I have the same struggles with jaws; glad I'm not the only one. I have to reread complex sentences to understand them with jaws. I also prefer braille and love my built in display on the braille note. I can only concentrate so long with jaws too. My reading and learning experience is much richer reading braille notes that I generate. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 1:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written at the beginning of the line. Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more. Ari On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ari! > In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program > like that. > At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe > Braille, > as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for some > reason. > That was stupid, (in my oppinion!) > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis > [aridamoulakis at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille > > Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a > library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books > on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be. > Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is > what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille > books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy > braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have > bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a > model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille > and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from > there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy, > because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they > do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is > they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as > part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have > seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the > crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have > relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the > books to you. > Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it > in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the > online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone > or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will > see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them, > but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here > you'll be very happy. > http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/ > Ari > On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Braille is an interesting topic! >> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail! >> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in >> college.) >> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday. >> Those chapters are so long! >> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures? >> I don't need all of that! >> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out >> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the >> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia. >> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need >> to >> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours! >> That's not efficient at all! >> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as >> opposed to audio! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman >> [arielle71 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >> >> Hi all, >> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good >> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume >> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities >> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also >> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of >> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their >> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning >> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the >> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like >> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all >> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is >> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high >> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified >> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> Ari, >>> >>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving >>> braille instruction in schools. There has been a campaign going on >>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even >>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for >>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the >>> visually impaired who can teach those skills. This means that some >>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a >>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they >>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to >>> teach them. In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will >>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and >>> parts of a city. My county educational service center had 3 braille >>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students >>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a >>> large city. We need more braille teachers really badly. >>> >>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school >>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind. She is an >>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi >>> after she gets her undergrad done. I keep telling her to hurry up and >>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP. :) >>> >>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> Hi Ari and all, >>>> >>>> I agree as well. I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as >>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted, >>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go, >>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I >>>> love to read hard copy braille books. The NLS is great and I'm happy >>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep >>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something. I agree >>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not >>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about >>>> 20 or 25 dollars max. >>>> >>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn >>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or >>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be >>>> literate. Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or >>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally >>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I >>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler. The >>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the >>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their >>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success. >>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of. But, >>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that. :) >>>> >>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Sophie, >>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in >>>>> the >>>>> United States. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state >>>>>> library >>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the >>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books >>>>>> before >>>>>> I >>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading >>>>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do >>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's >>>>>> what >>>>>> a >>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not >>>>>> learning >>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must >>>>>> learn >>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the >>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs >>>>>> $20-30, >>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone >>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I >>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a >>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and >>>>>> audio, >>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I >>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not >>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I >>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and >>>>>> read >>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or >>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, >>>>>> but >>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a lovely >>>>>> thing! >>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you >>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking >>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help >>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have >>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400 >>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a >>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he >>>>>> couldn't >>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that >>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille. >>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books >>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to >>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these >>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the >>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't >>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if >>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6 >>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices >>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic >>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic >>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't >>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if >>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys >>>>>> have >>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want >>>>>> in >>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices >>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to >>>>>> read >>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible! >>>>>> Ari >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:38:38 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:38:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests In-Reply-To: References: <0287242306764CAF82EC69AB6FA66F1F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Kaiti, Its easier to do a quiz my way on a flash drive, but some professors don't follow logic. Yeah, they make more work for themselves using the testing center. All I can do is suggest alternative ways. Oh well. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kaiti Shelton Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests Hi, Good idea beating your prof to the punch by telling the counselor first. I thought about mentioning that in a previous email but didn't want to get too into it without knowing all the details. Sounds to me like your teacher is just uncomfortable, although I don't really see the reason why. It's really odd because giving you a microsoft word file on a flashdrive would probably be easier than sending her test to the testing center and filling out paperwork or whatever for it, especially as most professors make up their tests and quizzes in word anyway. I would keep trying to nicely convince the prof to let you take the quiz in class. Probably all she'll need is one time to see that it's really not a big deal at all and then you won't really have an issue like this with her again. HTH On 2/2/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kaiti, > > Thanks. I feel the same way; it’s a hastle and silly to go out of my way > to > > a testing center in another building when I could just take the quiz > there. > I'm afraid though I won't be able to. When I asked my professor about > taking > > class quizzes, she was hesistant. She said the quiz was not online; > I explained it did not have to be and that if she put it on a flash drive, > I > > could read it. > Then she said, "I think I'll get guidance from the disability office." > Gee! > > If she involves them, they will say that I take quizzes and tests in the > darn testhing center. > > I also want to take quizzes my way because I can ask her questions about > questions if it does not make sense just as other students do. > I think this may be helpful as I've seen her practice quizzes online so I > know how they are worded. > > Well, then, I'm glad my idea isn't an unheard one. I proposed taking the > quiz after class because I need extra time for the quiz. However, I might > need only five or six minutes more so if there is no class after ours, I > could just take it in class. I could check on that. I'll note that I read > my > > memo of accomodations. Under testing accomodations, it says that I can > make > > other arrangements. Yay. > It says > Systems include: > Use of testing center or disability facilities, double time, oral > administration, , computer, typed answers as opposed to scantron sheet. > > The clause "Includes" means these accomodations are included; I reread it > and therefore its broad. It does not say these are the only accomodations > I > > can use. So IMO, its open to interpretation and other arrangements. So, I > think this sheet is on my side. > > My counselor wrote me when we were discussing class quiz accomodations; I > had to give her a heads up as the professor indicated she'd go to the > counselor and I wanted to tell the counselor first.She said, I assume > you're > > going to the testing center? I replied that actually I wished to take > these > > short quizzes in her office and explained why. I said that it would take > longer to walk to the testing center and turn on jaws and the pc than > simply > > taking the short quiz in the building. > > So, we will see what they decide; I hope in my favor. I've been to the > professor's office and she has extra room and plenty of chairs for me to > sit > > down and take it. So space won't be an issue as it is i in some offices. > That is great some professors let you use your own equipment in class. > IMO, > > it makes it > easier on both parties. You don' have to go to a separate place for > quizzes > > then which can be a hastle. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking quizzes and tests > > Hi, > > Absolutely, it wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle for > something that small. I typically take all my quizzes in class except > for midterms, finals, and anything math related because that's a > different matter entirely. > Your testing rooms and procedures sound pretty similar to the ones at > my university in that you're on your own unless you request a scribe > or reader and they provide a computer with JAWS for you. However, I > agree that using these things for a quiz would be silly. > > My only question is why not take the quiz at the same time as everyone > else? If you do get your teacher to put the quiz on a flashdrive to > put on your BrailleNote why not just take it in class at the regular > time and give her back the flashdrive when you're done? It will save > you time after class. > > On 2/1/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> How do you go about taking quizzes and tests? >> Every school seems a bit different in rules to administer tests to >> disabled >> students. >> >> At Marymount university, MU, I went to the learning center where students >> got tutored and took either make up or regular tests. >> I signed the honor code pledge and then completed the test with a reader >> usually, a student reader they provided. I could use the pc as well if it >> was an essay exam. >> >> At nova, community college, they have a testing center. you take it there >> >> in >> a room alone. You can get a reader as well if you need that. >> They have jaws on a pc at the testing center,so I can use it there if I >> opt >> to read it on the pc. >> >> Do you go through the formal disability office procedure and take exams >> in >> >> a >> separate building and whatever place for test takers with disabilities? >> I usually have done it unless my professor wants to work something else >> out; >> for instance, giving me short quizzes orally after class. >> >> Have you taken exams or quizzes in professor’s offices using your own >> equipment or in class? Do you work out other arrangements out with >> professors such as this rather than going to the designated testing >> office. >> >> I ask because I want to do this for a short quiz. Why go over to the >> testing >> center on the other side of campus when I feel I can take the quiz right >> there in the building? I’d either read the quiz via my notetaker or bring >> >> a >> laptop. My professor seemed unsure about this idea. She said, I’ll ask >> the >> disability counseling center about this. >> I said, if you do, they will just say I take them in the testing center; >> this is the default arrangement unless we work out something else. I get >> the >> sense she is uncomfortable with me taking the quiz after class. Note that >> that her office hours are right after class and her office is in that >> building. Its so much more convenient to take the quiz there rather than >> walk way to the testing center for a 10 question quiz. >> >> >> She said its not online; I explained that I could read it in Word format >> electronically on a flash drive; so it did not need to be online for me >> to >> take it on a electronic device. >> >> >> Anyway, just wondered what others have done. Hope my idea also sounds >> reasonable. to me it seems fair. I’d still be supervised while taking the >> quiz and would not have to go to the testing center. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:44:14 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:44:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130204043004.01bebb70@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net><8CFE71C48B944FB6B02660814B8AA9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130204043004.01bebb70@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2F573789952141DB94308EC793A2AD6B@OwnerPC> Hey Carley, Thanks. I guess we have to ask for the instructor's help sometimes if people gather and fill up their groups too quickly to include us. But that is also what an instructor is there for; to ensure everyone has a group to work with if they need it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 7:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues Good morning, Good morning, Ashley, Getting into groups most definitely is easier said than done and, usually instructor needs to intervene for us and i am definitely not trying to suggest it being somehow easier in my case. It still sucks when everyone else scatters, gravitating toward each other's gazes is it, right over your head? So please don't think I have any answers or that I'm trying to say I have it better. Have a good day, Ash! for today, Car :01 PM 2/3/2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Carely, Gee, I guess personality comes across different in email. I really >don't see me as you said. Further, you did not give specifics as to what >educate means so its not exactly helpful. As I said before, I asked around >and everyone I asked was in a group. People did not come to me Carley, that >is the problem. In class it happens so fast; if you look around before you >know it people are already grouped and you are looking for one while they >are chattering about the assignment. In other classes, I found simply >talking to neighbors worked as some of you mentioned. They don't group >themselves as this class does, but simply work with those around them. >Keep in mind that you have classes with people and rarely see them again. >So its not like they can see you in class A and remember that you were a >cheerful contributing person, and then see you in class B and ask you be a >member. Now, educating is a great thing. But what I'm asking about is how >you can socialize better and form groups without being the odd one out. >Finally, if I am being a good student as I am by listening and contributing >to class by either questions or answering professor directed questions, I >am being part of the class and including myself. I hope I am so called >educating by being in class and saying things to contribute. But you can >only do so much. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:42 AM To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues Good >morning, Ashley, Best way I found to "educate" is to demonstrate just what >we are capable of, through sheer doing, and attitude. Sounds to me like you >got a bit of a chip on your shoulder and, I imagine that's why building >bridges linking you, and your peers doesn't seem to come naturally. What do >you think? A suggestion would be to just act naturally, letting them come >to you, asking to be grouped with you. It is true it doesn't happen >immediately, like everything, it does take some doing. Don't be afraid of >that doing. Car, you wrote: >Ari, Thanks; great points. at work we will >know each other and be a >cohesive team, not strangers put together for a >16 week term to learn a >subject. I talk to students around me; sometimes >it helps, but sometimes it >doesn't help me get included in a group >discussion. I will have to ask the >professor to assist me in finding a >group to work with. Additionally, she >has group discussions most class >periods and then asks each group leader to >speak to the class as to what >they answered. Often I enjoy group >discussions; but this time it’s a >bit frustrstrating. Why? Because, I have >to find a group and ask >neighbors. I am put in the position to ask, Amy, >Susie, can I join your >group? This means I have to usually interrupt them >since they're already >looking at each other and/or getting started. Also, >it’s a crowded room >om and I find the noise level too much. I cannot get a >sense of who said >what in the group or even what question we're on. I'll >explain what we do. >The professor gives us like four or five questions. She >says get in groups >of about five people. One student is the scribe. He/she >is responsible for >writing down the answers to questions. He/she also will >place everyone's >name on the paper so we all get class participation >credit. Finally, after >we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the >completed copy to the >professor. One student is the spokesperson for each >small group. So when >we discuss as a class, there are five or six people >speaking and she goes >around the room systematically. Sometimes she asks >for volunteers as well; >so then a group member calls out and shares their >stuff. For the group >project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an >assignment where we have >to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating >sociological concepts. >Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not >watch much tv; and >certainly not reality tv shows! As to the other >suggestions, I did those. >Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said >before, they are already >paired in groups for the project. Brandon, asking >students around you does >not always work if they already know who they want >to work with. They >might even recognize people from another class, in this >case sociology >201. I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it >changes from time >to time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear >them often! I >don't have the benefit of recognizing people by face. As for >educating >and interacting with people outside class, um forget it! People >don't >interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing education >while I >look for work. These additional courses such as business writing, >intro to >business and technical editing will boost my resume as a way to > >demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer from >writing >samples and professor recommendations. I know it’s a commuter >community >college; no no sense of community. I tried and tried to form >study groups to >no avail;; only in one class did I get a study partner and >that was cause I >asked him. we chatted before class and he seemed mature >and friendly. >Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a >ambassador for the >legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my >whole life, I'd work for >a blindness agency doing outreach work or >something of that nature. I will >answer questions about blindness or >braille or whatever if they ask. But I >want to be myself and talk about >lots of other things besides visual >impairment. I have a lot of other >opinions and things to share about me >than the characteristic of partial >vision. So, I do not buy this line that >if we go out and educate people >that they will accept us. If people get to >know me, they will accept me >for who I am including my personality, values, >and me being legally blind. >I don't make a big deal about being almost >blind. Besides students simply >study there and leave for home; very little >time to interact outside class >unless you are in a club. Thanks for the >thoughts and I'll work on >getting a group to be in next class. >Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: Wednesday, >January 30, 2013 1:17 AM To: >National Association of Blind Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >group projects issues Hi Ashley I couldn't agree >with you more on group >projects and the issues people have with them. There >are many >blindness-type related issues. Like you, when it comes to being an > >individual and participating in class, I do participate and get > >complemented, but their are many blind issues with group projects that I > >can think of. The first issue is when group projects are announced. >Lecture >rooms are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the >first >problem is finding the people you know from that class. What >normally >happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find >your >friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them >to see >if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If it is >a class >where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is right, >just find >people nearer to you and try ask if you can join. The next >problem you then >have is if you actually do do that, because most of the >time, even though >they know you might be smart in the real class, somehow >many people when >having to try actually talk to and interact with a blind >person somehow has >a problem. When your group members are discussing what >tasks everyone >should be doing you have to ask one of them "what would you >like me to do?" >or say "I can do x or y." If you don't you stand the risk >that they just >ignore you. It is interesting to see that your group >members interact >virtually. Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet >somewhere to >discuss. You are right that most times people don't do things >and so on, >but to be really honest with you when it comes to group work at >university >I wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not >how things >will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing >nothing >etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a job >and have >to work together as a group you probably won't have to worry too >much >because you'd be working with people you would work with everyday, >and they >would over time become used to seeing you as being a capable >person, >therefore if you have group projects in the work place they'd help >you >more. With university you probably just meet people and work with them > >once-off, so don't be too worried. Lecturers probably can also see who > >worked in the group and who didn't, but I also don't think they take group > >assignments as seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers > >are not blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, >I'm >not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the >group >have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing work >etc. For >group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself, >just >relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world the > >university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone else will > >probably not be bothering you much. Ari > >____________________________________________ ___ nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To > >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >________ >_______________________________________ nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To > >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 22:46:50 2013 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> <000001ce0b21$9c63de20$d52b9a60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Laurel, Sorry to jump in a bit late on this thread, but I would also be willing to talk to you about this. I am the President of the Ohio student division and, although you are not from Ohio, I can offer you advice and a good set of ears if you need them. I am also in the camp that says that it's not quite time to sue yet. I know you are graduating soon, but if you do not go as far as you can with this complaint, what's to stop this professor from doing the same thing to someone else? She should know that this is absolutely not OK and that actions will be taken against her if she does not start treating all her students, no matter what the disability, or other difference, fairly. Joshua, I would just like to say that, like others, I believe my college education and accommodations are going very well. I attend an "American" university and, other than a slight bump in the road I am dealing with now, everything is going well. The NFB has a false reputation for immediately suing someone if they refuse to be accommodating: let's not spread that notion any further to others by jumping to conclusions about every school and how to handle every difficult situation. You may be a busy student, but the fact is that every situation is different and there are different steps to follow for each situation that arises. You will become more skilled as a blind person if you, and I don't just mean you, but every other blind person, myself included, assess the unique circumstances surrounding each situation and act according to them rather than applying a "one size fits all" approach. I hope I have made myself clear and please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions. Thanks, Aleeha On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Laurel, > > Chris is right on. In terms of the NFB, I'd definitely let them know > so they can keep your school on their radar for the future. Maybe not > now while you're dealing with the issue, unless of course you choose > to seek the help of the NFB for advice on the issue or about getting > Labarre or Goldstein's advice, but they should definitely know. > > However, obviously getting your academic stuff taken care of comes > first. I know it can be frustrating, (a friend and I went through > some early stages of the complaint process about a professor last > semester), but stick with it. What your prof did wasn't right, > especially since she has effected your GPA in a class you need for > your major. Best of luck, and let us know if you reach any success. > > > > On 2/14/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Laurel and all, >> >> Laurel, let me first say that I am very sorry to hear of this >> discrimination >> and find it sad that this kind of blatant discrimination still exists in >> our >> colleges and universities. I agree with all that has been said here, and >> I >> would definitely try taking the courses of action Kaiti, Arielle and >> others >> have suggested in this thread. >> >> You may also want to contact our national office and talk with a member >> of >> the Advocacy and Policy (also called Governmental Affairs) team if not >> Dr. >> Maurer himself. Although your state affiliate could probably do more, it >> may >> be good for the national office to at least know that this (to put it >> bluntly) crap is going on so they could step in if need be. If it comes >> down >> to this, Scott LaBarre, Dan Goldstein or any of the other lawyers who >> work >> with the Federation could represent you in court. However, I agree with >> Ashley that you might not want to sue quite yet, but that is an option. I >> emphasize that suing is an option because this may be your last resort if >> the people at your college still won't listen to you. This question has >> sort >> of been asked before in this thread, but how far up the chain of command >> at >> your school did you go in making your complaints? If you can go higher up >> the preverbial ladder before getting lawyers involved, I would definitely >> try that first. >> >> Also, I currently serve on the Board of Directors of the Maryland >> Association of Blind Students (MDABS.) I am also the co-Chair of our >> Public >> Relations Committee. I know you don't live in Maryland, but if there is >> anything our student division can do to help you in fighting this >> discrimination, please don't hesitate to let us know. Just write to me >> off-list or call me and I'll see what I can do. I have provided my phone >> number in my signature below. This is definitely discrimination, and I >> believe it should be fought. I hope your issues can be resolved quickly >> and >> without too much trouble for you. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students: a Division of thE National >> Federation of the Blind of Maryland >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> Shelton >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where >> to >> turn for help? >> >> Hi, >> >> I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear that >> she >> wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter will do much >> for >> the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows what she's doing, >> and >> if you've beaten at your own game then she's got to know that this hasn't >> gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that though! >> >> Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of whatever >> college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. >> Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences if >> the >> reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say that this is >> such a case. If not then definitely go through with the ADA stuff. It >> sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA complaints before, so you >> may >> need some lawyer's input if it comes down to it. The main point is that >> ADA >> or no, it's not right to mess with someone's GPA like this, and not >> wanting >> someone in a class just because they require some accomodations is an >> excuse >> a prof with no professionalism would make. >> >> How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? >> Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully pick >> a >> university with much better attitudes and resources geared towards >> accomodating fairly. >> >> On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: >>> Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. >>> Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do >>> anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in >>> August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know >>> what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she >>> didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, >>> but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. >>> I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was >>> that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. >>> Laurel >>> >>> On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, >>>> then she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring >>>> complaints against and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But >>>> you should follow the chain of command first. >>>> >>>> Loren >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> Shelton >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>> where to turn for help? >>>> >>>> Josh, >>>> >>>> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who >>>> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If >>>> it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one >>>> thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before >>>> putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm >>>> assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it >>>> wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss >>>> without going through the chain of command first. >>>> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, >>>> not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the >>>> issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A >>>> sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty >>>> member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College >>>> administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and >>>> will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor >>>> really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized >>>> way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of >>>> consequences from the university. >>>> >>>> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> Laurel, >>>>> >>>>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the >>>>> case up and running till after this semester was over and your grade >>>>> would surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see >>>>> if they can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in >>>>> situations like these. Make an appointment with the dean of the >>>>> language department first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you >>>>> have a copy of your exam instructions or the disabilities office has >>>>> them on file bring them so that you can show the dean. It would >>>>> also be helpful if you could get a sighted student to describe >>>>> either verbally in the meeting or in writing which they can give to >>>>> you what their exam procedures were so the dean could compare. If >>>>> the dean refuses to do nothing go to his boss, and if that doesn't >>>>> work then I'd look into legal action against the university, but >>>>> follow the chain of command first. You don't want to overstep >>>>> people who could help you without making a bigger deal out of the >> situation. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>> >>>>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, >>>>>> but I can get away with email. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>>> You better sue them! >>>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! >>>>>>> That's terrible! >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel >>>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, >>>>>>> where to turn for help? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated >>>>>>> against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of >>>>>>> you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French >>>>>>> professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, >>>>>>> basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams >>>>>>> and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a >>>>>>> different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I >>>>>>> had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 >>>>>>> questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced >>>>>>> without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody >>>>>>> else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out >>>>>>> yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else >> come to class and get in groups. >>>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 >>>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers >>>>>>> on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 >>>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I >>>>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing >>>>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin >>>>>>> her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I >>>>>>> turn to for >>>> help? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Laurel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>>>> pc >>>>>>> cua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockar >>>>>>> d% >>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40p >>>>>> cc >>>>>> ua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 >>>>>> 04 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 01:40:06 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:40:06 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? Message-ID: Hello, I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now the simple Facebook was taken away? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 01:42:55 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 20:42:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> the easy way seems to be use IE for now, that is what people in brazil have been telling me. mauricio On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:40 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now the simple Facebook was taken away? > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From dsykora29 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 01:56:08 2013 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 20:56:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> References: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use internet explorer with Facebook and don't have any trouble. I have found the mobile sight m.facebook.com to be much more accessible. To post on a group page, you should see an edit box that says "write something". You can post by hitting the "post" button. On 2/15/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > the easy way seems to be use IE for now, that is what people in brazil have > been telling me. > > mauricio > On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:40 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws >> and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now >> the simple Facebook was taken away? >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 02:29:03 2013 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 20:29:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've always used Facebook with IE. Also, I find the mobile version to be much more accessible, although there are some things you can't do. 2013/2/15, Brandon Keith Biggs : > Hello, > I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws and > > Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now the > simple Facebook was taken away? > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From zerone1683 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 02:55:38 2013 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:55:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01ce0bf1$1af68330$50e38990$@com> Try using NVDA on Internet Explorer 9 or Google Chrome. C.C. Alan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? Hello, I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now the simple Facebook was taken away? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 04:29:07 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:29:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: <000d01ce0bf1$1af68330$50e38990$@com> References: <000d01ce0bf1$1af68330$50e38990$@com> Message-ID: I don't think the browser or screenreader really matters too much if you use m.facebook.com. It will make things so much simpler. On 2/15/13, Chun Chao wrote: > Try using NVDA on Internet Explorer 9 or Google Chrome. > > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith > Biggs > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? > > Hello, > I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws and > Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now the > simple Facebook was taken away? > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Feb 16 13:58:12 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 05:58:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where to turn for help? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01ce0aec$7cdb4eb0$7691ec10$@centurylink.net> <000001ce0b21$9c63de20$d52b9a60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130216055737.01c04988@comcast.net> Good morning, Aleeha, Very well said, sister! CarAt 02:46 PM 2/15/2013, you wrote: >Hi Laurel, > Sorry to jump in a bit late on this thread, but I would also be >willing to talk to you about this. I am the President of the Ohio >student division and, although you are not from Ohio, I can offer you >advice and a good set of ears if you need them. > I am also in the camp that says that it's not quite time to sue >yet. I know you are graduating soon, but if you do not go as far as >you can with this complaint, what's to stop this professor from doing >the same thing to someone else? She should know that this is >absolutely not OK and that actions will be taken against her if she >does not start treating all her students, no matter what the >disability, or other difference, fairly. > Joshua, I would just like to say that, like others, I believe my >college education and accommodations are going very well. I attend an >"American" university and, other than a slight bump in the road I am >dealing with now, everything is going well. The NFB has a false >reputation for immediately suing someone if they refuse to be >accommodating: let's not spread that notion any further to others by >jumping to conclusions about every school and how to handle every >difficult situation. You may be a busy student, but the fact is that >every situation is different and there are different steps to follow >for each situation that arises. You will become more skilled as a >blind person if you, and I don't just mean you, but every other blind >person, myself included, assess the unique circumstances surrounding >each situation and act according to them rather than applying a "one >size fits all" approach. > I hope I have made myself clear and please don't hesitate to >contact me with any questions. >Thanks, >Aleeha > > >On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > > Laurel, > > > > Chris is right on. In terms of the NFB, I'd definitely let them know > > so they can keep your school on their radar for the future. Maybe not > > now while you're dealing with the issue, unless of course you choose > > to seek the help of the NFB for advice on the issue or about getting > > Labarre or Goldstein's advice, but they should definitely know. > > > > However, obviously getting your academic stuff taken care of comes > > first. I know it can be frustrating, (a friend and I went through > > some early stages of the complaint process about a professor last > > semester), but stick with it. What your prof did wasn't right, > > especially since she has effected your GPA in a class you need for > > your major. Best of luck, and let us know if you reach any success. > > > > > > > > On 2/14/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> Laurel and all, > >> > >> Laurel, let me first say that I am very sorry to hear of this > >> discrimination > >> and find it sad that this kind of blatant discrimination still exists in > >> our > >> colleges and universities. I agree with all that has been said here, and > >> I > >> would definitely try taking the courses of action Kaiti, Arielle and > >> others > >> have suggested in this thread. > >> > >> You may also want to contact our national office and talk with a member > >> of > >> the Advocacy and Policy (also called Governmental Affairs) team if not > >> Dr. > >> Maurer himself. Although your state affiliate could probably do more, it > >> may > >> be good for the national office to at least know that this (to put it > >> bluntly) crap is going on so they could step in if need be. If it comes > >> down > >> to this, Scott LaBarre, Dan Goldstein or any of the other lawyers who > >> work > >> with the Federation could represent you in court. However, I agree with > >> Ashley that you might not want to sue quite yet, but that is an option. I > >> emphasize that suing is an option because this may be your last resort if > >> the people at your college still won't listen to you. This question has > >> sort > >> of been asked before in this thread, but how far up the chain of command > >> at > >> your school did you go in making your complaints? If you can go higher up > >> the preverbial ladder before getting lawyers involved, I would definitely > >> try that first. > >> > >> Also, I currently serve on the Board of Directors of the Maryland > >> Association of Blind Students (MDABS.) I am also the co-Chair of our > >> Public > >> Relations Committee. I know you don't live in Maryland, but if there is > >> anything our student division can do to help you in fighting this > >> discrimination, please don't hesitate to let us know. Just write to me > >> off-list or call me and I'll see what I can do. I have provided my phone > >> number in my signature below. This is definitely discrimination, and I > >> believe it should be fought. I hope your issues can be resolved quickly > >> and > >> without too much trouble for you. > >> > >> Good luck, > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >> Public Relations Committee > >> Maryland Association of Blind Students: a Division of thE National > >> Federation of the Blind of Maryland > >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >> Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >> Shelton > >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:32 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, where > >> to > >> turn for help? > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I get that you're trying to make a point, and that she should hear that > >> she > >> wasn't pulling one over on you, but I don't think a letter will do much > >> for > >> the situation. She is doing this blatantly and knows what she's doing, > >> and > >> if you've beaten at your own game then she's got to know that this hasn't > >> gone unnoticed. Congrats to you for that though! > >> > >> Chairs of departments fall under the supervision of the dean of whatever > >> college they belong to. Try that if you haven't already. > >> Even professors with years of pull behind them can have consequences if > >> the > >> reason for doing so is severe enough, and I'd definitely say that this is > >> such a case. If not then definitely go through with the ADA stuff. It > >> sounds like you've filed some unsuccessful ADA complaints before, so you > >> may > >> need some lawyer's input if it comes down to it. The main point is that > >> ADA > >> or no, it's not right to mess with someone's GPA like this, and not > >> wanting > >> someone in a class just because they require some accomodations is an > >> excuse > >> a prof with no professionalism would make. > >> > >> How much longer do you have till you could get your degree? > >> Thankfully you can go somewhere else for grad school, and hopefully pick > >> a > >> university with much better attitudes and resources geared towards > >> accomodating fairly. > >> > >> On 2/14/13, Laurel wrote: > >>> Exactly. She is long track, and has tuns of power overthere. > >>> Basically, her word is law. I'm thinking that at least, if I can't do > >>> anything else, I am going to wait until I have my degree in hand in > >>> August, and then write her a letter and just tell her, look I know > >>> what you did and I want you to know that it's not ok. HOnestly, she > >>> didn't want me in her class because I'm blind. She tried to fail me, > >>> but I didn't even know I was being discriminated against at the time. > >>> I beat her at her own game and passed. I literally just thought it was > >>> that hard and at the time I didn't know anybody in the class. > >>> Laurel > >>> > >>> On 2/14/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > >>>> The problem here also is that if the prof is chair of the department, > >>>> then she is probably tenured. This makes it harder to bring > >>>> complaints against and have any sort of meaningful action taken. But > >>>> you should follow the chain of command first. > >>>> > >>>> Loren > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>> Shelton > >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:03 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > >>>> where to turn for help? > >>>> > >>>> Josh, > >>>> > >>>> The ADA is great, but you can't just automatically slap everyone who > >>>> descriminates against someone with a disability with a lawsuit. If > >>>> it comes down to it and that's what must be done then that's one > >>>> thing, but there are certain steps which should be taken before > >>>> putting the time, effort, and money into suing a person. Plus, I'm > >>>> assuming that this is not Laurel's last semester in school, so it > >>>> wouldn't be wise to just hire a lawyer and make a bunch of legal fuss > >>>> without going through the chain of command first. > >>>> I feel that would just create more enemies than this one professor, > >>>> not to mention make Laurel look bad for not trying to resolve the > >>>> issue in a more dignified and civilized way before going to court. A > >>>> sensible dean will not stand for descrimination from a faculty > >>>> member, especially if they see Laurel in an appointment. College > >>>> administrators are mindful of things which could causse lawsuits and > >>>> will do what they can to avoid them, and if this French professor > >>>> really did descriminate and Laurel can prove it in a calm, civilized > >>>> way by presenting the facts I bet her prof will have some form of > >>>> consequences from the university. > >>>> > >>>> On 2/14/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > >>>>> Laurel, > >>>>> > >>>>> If Scott Labarre were to even represent you, you wouldn't get the > >>>>> case up and running till after this semester was over and your grade > >>>>> would surely be final. Talk to your disabilities councelor and see > >>>>> if they can help; part of their job is to advocate for you in > >>>>> situations like these. Make an appointment with the dean of the > >>>>> language department first. Make sure it's face-to-face. If you > >>>>> have a copy of your exam instructions or the disabilities office has > >>>>> them on file bring them so that you can show the dean. It would > >>>>> also be helpful if you could get a sighted student to describe > >>>>> either verbally in the meeting or in writing which they can give to > >>>>> you what their exam procedures were so the dean could compare. If > >>>>> the dean refuses to do nothing go to his boss, and if that doesn't > >>>>> work then I'd look into legal action against the university, but > >>>>> follow the chain of command first. You don't want to overstep > >>>>> people who could help you without making a bigger deal out of the > >> situation. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>>>>> I'll write you offlist, because I need to ask you something anyway. > >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > >>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:43 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > >>>>>> where to turn for help? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What's his email? Sorry, I'm in school and can't answer the phone, > >>>>>> but I can get away with email. :-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2/14/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>>>>>> Good grief! > >>>>>>> You better sue them! > >>>>>>> Contact Scott LaBarre, and he'll help you! > >>>>>>> That's terrible! > >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Laurel > >>>>>>> [laurel.stockard at gmail.com] > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:32 PM > >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] I believe I have been discriminated against, > >>>>>>> where to turn for help? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As my subject says, I believe that I have been discriminated > >>>>>>> against by a professor at my university. I am wondering if one of > >>>>>>> you fellow listers can tell me where to get help. I had a French > >>>>>>> professor last semester. With out making this too long of a story, > >>>>>>> basically, I have just found out that she gave me different exams > >>>>>>> and quizzes than she gave everybody in the class. She made me do a > >>>>>>> different and much harder final exam for example. On the final, I > >>>>>>> had to go to my Disability Servic Testing office and answer 4 or 5 > >>>>>>> questions, in French of course, one page responses single spaced > >>>>>>> without use of a dictionary. I did not know then what everybody > >>>>>>> else did, I assumed they did the same as me. I found out > >>>>>>> yesterday, accidentally, that what she did was have everybody else > >> come to class and get in groups. > >>>>>>> She then gave each group a dictionary, and assigned the groups 1 > >>>>>>> question each. They then had to answer it and write their answers > >>>>>>> on the board. The whole class then discussed each question. All 20 > >>>>>>> students made 100s on the exam. I made a 74. Had I made an "A" I > >>>>>>> would have made an "a" in the class. This is the most major thing > >>>>>>> she did, there's a lot of smaller things, but I think I can pin > >>>>>>> her down on this one. Where/what NFB resource/resources should I > >>>>>>> turn to for > >>>> help? > >>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>> Laurel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > >>>>>>> pc > >>>>>>> cua.edu > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockar > >>>>>>> d% > >>>>>>> 40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40p > >>>>>> cc > >>>>>> ua.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet1 > >>>>>> 04 > >>>>>> %40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Kaiti > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Kaiti > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > >>>> net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4 > >>>> 0gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > >>> 40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Kaiti > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > >> om > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 17:38:05 2013 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:38:05 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> References: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93018E7419F54F49BAF5C7276AD969ED@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, They updated the Mobile Facebook last week and they changed the update your status and what not so that there is not a box above the last posts anymore. They also added headings to the mobile Facebook website, made the chat box a little harder to use, made something where you could send messages to certain people in groups and probably a ton of other things I haven't noticed. I'm just wondering what button I push to get the edit box to show up, or if I use the edit box on the bottom of the page then press another button to post it like before. I'll try NVDA, but the screen reader isn't the problem I don't think. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Mauricio Almeida Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? the easy way seems to be use IE for now, that is what people in brazil have been telling me. mauricio On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:40 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws > and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now > the simple Facebook was taken away? > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 17:57:00 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:57:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? In-Reply-To: <93018E7419F54F49BAF5C7276AD969ED@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <4E116214-1161-43E1-A0BD-B4A6AF570C99@gmail.com> <93018E7419F54F49BAF5C7276AD969ED@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi, That's really odd. I noticed last week my mobile facebook didn't have the profile, friends, and other links at the bottom of the pages anymore, but now it's back exactly the way it was two weeks ago. Weird. Good luck; let us know if you find something that works better for you. On 2/16/13, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > They updated the Mobile Facebook last week and they changed the update your > > status and what not so that there is not a box above the last posts anymore. > > They also added headings to the mobile Facebook website, made the chat box a > > little harder to use, made something where you could send messages to > certain people in groups and probably a ton of other things I haven't > noticed. I'm just wondering what button I push to get the edit box to show > up, or if I use the edit box on the bottom of the page then press another > button to post it like before. > I'll try NVDA, but the screen reader isn't the problem I don't think. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Mauricio Almeida > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using the new Facebook? > > the easy way seems to be use IE for now, that is what people in brazil have > > been telling me. > > mauricio > On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:40 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I'm going insane trying to post on our Fraternities' FB page using Jaws >> and Firefox. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to post on a group page now >> >> the simple Facebook was taken away? >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 16 20:12:42 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:12:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Colorado Center for the Blind Job Message-ID: COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND 2233 W. Shepperd Ave. Littleton, CO 80120 Phone: 303-778-1130 Fax: 303-778-1598 ccb at cocenter.org Job Description SUCCESS IN COLLEGE PROGRAM COORDINATOR Please send a cover letter, resume and a sample of your writing to Carol Sprague at csprague at cocenter.org Salary range $30,000-$35,000 Duties and Responsibilities 1. Work closely with the Director of Youth Services to support all youth programs. 2. Develop curriculum to meet the needs of students in the Success in College program. 3. Work closely with rehabilitation counselors. 4. Write and compile monthly reports and facilitate student staffings. 5. Act as a liaison between Center staff, Arapahoe Community College and others. 6. Market the program and recruit students. 7. Teach college readiness classes such as PowerPoint and online platforms. Teach skills to be successful in classes that are typically visually oriented such as math and science as well as orientation of college campus. 8. Provide academic skills teaching and testing preparation throughout all programs. 9. Teach basic skills of blindness. 10. Conduct classes and seminars where all aspects of blindness are discussed. In addition, fully participate and assist in all center activities including rock climbing, skiing, camping and other vital activities. Promote the positive philosophy of the Colorado Center for the Blind to co-workers, students, and others, and provide support and guidance to students throughout their program. Qualifications 1. Working knowledge of higher education system. 2. Possess understanding and abilities in the areas of accessing books, websites, media, online classes, etc. 3. Experience working with people who have various disabilities in conjunction with blindness such as learning disabilities, brain injuries, etc. 4. Must be detail oriented and possess effective organizational skills. 5. Excellent written and verbal communication skills. 6. Bachelor's degree 7. Experience in relevant field of knowledge with blindness experience preferred. Brent C. Batron Director of Youth Programs Colorado Center for the Blind 303-778-1130 x 222 www.cocenter.org Take Charge with Confidence and Self-Reliance FaceBook_24x24 Twitter_24x24 Youtube_24x24 Brent C. Batron Director of Youth Programs Colorado Center for the Blind 303-778-1130 x 222 www.cocenter.org Take Charge with Confidence and Self-Reliance FaceBook_24x24 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image00143.png Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 1662 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image00232.png Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 1827 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image00328.png Type: application/mac-binhex40 Size: 1786 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coasterfreak88 at me.com Sat Feb 16 20:29:14 2013 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:29:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. Message-ID: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 16 20:30:25 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:30:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Europe requires hybrid cars to make noise to alert pedestrians Message-ID: Europe requires hybrid cars to make noise to alert pedestrians Europe requires hybrid cars to make noise to alert pedestrians http://www.neurope.eu/article/blind-people-soon-able-hear-silent-cars The European Parliament will require hybrid cars to be equipped with an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System (AVAS). The sound system is intended to help pedestrians, particularly those who are blind or have vision impairments, know when the vehicles, which make little noise, are nearby. New Europe (2/11) Jonn Paris-Salb, Education Administrator I Clearinghouse for Specialized Media & Translations 1430 N Street, Room 3207 Sacramento, CA 95814 Phone 916-323-2202 FAX 916-323-9732 jparissalb at cde.ca.gov From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Feb 16 21:13:32 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:13:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> Good morning, John, Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are physically handicapped. Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Feb 16 21:27:21 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:27:21 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues In-Reply-To: <2F573789952141DB94308EC793A2AD6B@OwnerPC> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130203073611.01c15c78@comcast.net> <8CFE71C48B944FB6B02660814B8AA9F4@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130204043004.01bebb70@comcast.net> <2F573789952141DB94308EC793A2AD6B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130216132518.01d18590@comcast.net> Good afternoon, Ashley, True 'dat! Usually, I myself need to be put in some group by instructor. I know all about that, and I see, so do you! Car At 02:44 PM 2/15/2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Hey Carley, Thanks. I guess we have to ask for >the instructor's help sometimes if people gather >and fill up their groups too quickly to include >us. But that is also what an instructor is >there for; to ensure everyone has a group to >work with if they need it. Ashley -----Original >Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, >February 04, 2013 7:37 AM To: National >Association of Blind Students mailing list ; >National Association of Blind Students mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues >Good morning, Good morning, Ashley, Getting into >groups most definitely is easier said than done >and, usually instructor needs to intervene for >us and i am definitely not trying to suggest it >being somehow easier in my case. It still sucks >when everyone else scatters, gravitating toward >each other's gazes is it, right over your head? >So please don't think I have any answers or that >I'm trying to say I have it better. Have a good >day, Ash! for today, Car :01 PM 2/3/2013, Ashley >Bramlett wrote: >Carely, Gee, I guess >personality comes across different in email. I >really >don't see me as you said. Further, you >did not give specifics as to what >educate means >so its not exactly helpful. As I said before, I >asked around >and everyone I asked was in a >group. People did not come to me Carley, >that >is the problem. In class it happens so >fast; if you look around before you >know it >people are already grouped and you are looking >for one while they >are chattering about the >assignment. In other classes, I found >simply >talking to neighbors worked as some of >you mentioned. They don't group >themselves as >this class does, but simply work with those >around them. >Keep in mind that you have classes >with people and rarely see them again. >So its >not like they can see you in class A and >remember that you were a >cheerful contributing >person, and then see you in class B and ask you >be a >member. Now, educating is a great thing. >But what I'm asking about is how >you can >socialize better and form groups without being >the odd one out. >Finally, if I am being a good >student as I am by listening and >contributing >to class by either questions or >answering professor directed questions, I >am >being part of the class and including myself. I >hope I am so called >educating by being in class >and saying things to contribute. But you >can >only do so much. Ashley -----Original >Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: >Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:42 AM To: National >Association of Blind >Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues >Good >morning, Ashley, Best way I found to >"educate" is to demonstrate just what >we are >capable of, through sheer doing, and attitude. >Sounds to me like you >got a bit of a chip on >your shoulder and, I imagine that's why >building >bridges linking you, and your peers >doesn't seem to come naturally. What do >you >think? A suggestion would be to just act >naturally, letting them come >to you, asking to >be grouped with you. It is true it doesn't >happen >immediately, like everything, it does >take some doing. Don't be afraid of >that doing. >Car, you wrote: >Ari, Thanks; great points. at >work we will >know each other and be a >cohesive >team, not strangers put together for a >16 week >term to learn a >subject. I talk to students >around me; sometimes >it helps, but sometimes >it >doesn't help me get included in a >group >discussion. I will have to ask >the >professor to assist me in finding a >group >to work with. Additionally, she >has group >discussions most class >periods and then asks >each group leader to >speak to the class as to >what >they answered. Often I enjoy >group >discussions; but this time it’s >a >bit frustrstratrating. Why? Because, I >have >to find a group and ask >neighbors. I am >put in the position to ask, Amy, >Susie, can I >join your >group? This means I have to usually >interrupt them >since they're already >looking >at each other and/or getting started. >Also, >it’s a crowded rooroom >om and I >find the noise level too much. I cannot get >a >sense of who said >what in the group or even >what question we're on. I'll >explain what we >do. >The professor gives us like four or five >questions. She >says get in groups >of about >five people. One student is the scribe. >He/she >is responsible for >writing down the >answers to questions. He/she also will >place >everyone's >name on the paper so we all get >class participation >credit. Finally, after >we >discuss as a class, the scribe hands in >the >completed copy to the >professor. One >student is the spokesperson for each >small >group. So when >we discuss as a class, there are >five or six people >speaking and she >goes >around the room systematically. Sometimes >she asks >for volunteers as well; >so then a >group member calls out and shares their >stuff. >For the group >project, I am not looking forward >to it. It is an >assignment where we have >to >make a skit for a mock tv program >illustrating >sociological concepts. >Well, I >have no clue where to even begin. I do >not >watch much tv; and >certainly not reality >tv shows! As to the other >suggestions, I did >those. >Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but >as I said >before, they are already >paired in >groups for the project. Brandon, >asking >students around you does >not always >work if they already know who they want >to work >with. They >might even recognize people from >another class, in this >case sociology >201. I >don't know who is sitting by me all the time; >it >changes from time >to time. I cannot link >voices to names as I do not hear >them often! >I >don't have the benefit of recognizing people >by face. As for >educating >and interacting with >people outside class, um forget it! >People >don't >interact much outside classes. >I'm there as continuing education >while I >look >for work. These additional courses such as >business writing, >intro to >business and >technical editing will boost my resume as a way >to > >demonstrate I studied writing. It also >shows I'm a good writer from >writing >samples >and professor recommendations. I know >it’™s a commuter >community >college; no >no sense of community. I tried and tried to >form >study groups to >no avail;; only in one >class did I get a study partner and >that was >cause I >asked him. we chatted before class and >he seemed mature >and friendly. >Frankly, I go >to school to study and learn, not to be >a >ambassador for the >legally blind community. >If I wanted to educate my >whole life, I'd work >for >a blindness agency doing outreach work >or >something of that nature. I will >answer >questions about blindness or >braille or >whatever if they ask. But I >want to be myself >and talk about >lots of other things besides >visual >impairment. I have a lot of >other >opinions and things to share about >me >than the characteristic of partial >vision. >So, I do not buy this line that >if we go out >and educate people >that they will accept us. If >people get to >know me, they will accept me >for >who I am including my personality, values, >and >me being legally blind. >I don't make a big deal >about being almost >blind. Besides students >simply >study there and leave for home; very >little >time to interact outside class >unless >you are in a club. Thanks for the >thoughts and >I'll work on >getting a group to be in next >class. >Ashley -----Original >Message----- >From: Ari Damoulakis Sent: >Wednesday, >January 30, 2013 1:17 AM >To: >National Association of Blind Students >mailing >list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >group >projects issues Hi Ashley I couldn't agree >with >you more on group >projects and the issues >people have with them. There >are >many >blindness-type related issues. Like you, >when it comes to being an > >individual and >participating in class, I do participate and >get > >complemented, but their are many blind >issues with group projects that I > >can think >of. The first issue is when group projects are >announced. >Lecture >rooms are so huge and so >many people are in the classes that >the >first >problem is finding the people you >know from that class. What >normally >happens >with me is that because obviously you can't look >and find >your >friends in class, you generally >have to wait after class to SMS them >to see >if >they have a group and whether their group has >room etc. If it is >a class >where you don't >really know anyone, I think your idea is >right, >just find >people nearer to you and try >ask if you can join. The next >problem you >then >have is if you actually do do that, >because most of the >time, even though >they >know you might be smart in the real class, >somehow >many people when >having to try >actually talk to and interact with a >blind >person somehow has >a problem. When your >group members are discussing what >tasks >everyone >should be doing you have to ask one of >them "what would you >like me to do?" >or say "I >can do x or y." If you don't you stand the >risk >that they just >ignore you. It is >interesting to see that your group >members >interact >virtually. Mostly whenever I've done >these things we meet >somewhere to >discuss. You >are right that most times people don't do >things >and so on, >but to be really honest with >you when it comes to group work >at >university >I wouldn't really be too worried >because this is probably not >how things >will >work in later life. I'm not talking about the >people doing >nothing >etc, I'm rather talking >about when you get a job. If you get a job >and >have >to work together as a group you probably >won't have to worry too >much >because you'd be >working with people you would work with >everyday, >and they >would over time become used >to seeing you as being a >capable >person, >therefore if you have group >projects in the work place they'd >help >you >more. With university you probably >just meet people and work with them > >once-off, >so don't be too worried. Lecturers probably can >also see who > >worked in the group and who >didn't, but I also don't think they take >group > >assignments as seriously as individual >ones, because intelligent lecturers > >are not >blind to the problems that university group >assignments entail, >I'm >not talking about >specifically blind here, but sighted people in >the >group >have many of these problems as well, >such as others not doing work >etc. For >group >the advice I can try give you is don't >overstress yourself, >just >relax and do the >best you can, because luckily in the real world >the > >university form of a group assignment >where noone knows anyone else will > >probably >not be bothering you much. >Ari > >__________________________________________ >__ ___ nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To > >unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs >-l >_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >____ >____ >_______________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To > >unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs >-l >_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >d> >_____________________________________________ >__ nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >________ >_______________________________________ nabs-l >mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l >_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 21:51:55 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:51:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> Message-ID: I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a certain event in mind. Arielle On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, John, > > Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are > physically handicapped. > Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. > Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 21:58:22 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:58:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> wait a minute. are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the special olimpics? i'm confused. now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the paralimpics. sincerely, mauricio On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can > participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental > disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in > Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a > certain event in mind. > Arielle > > On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good morning, John, >> >> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >> physically handicapped. >> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 21:58:53 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:58:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi, I participated in Special Olympics when I was a kid. It's for people of all ages with physical or mental disabilities, there's nothing that says physically disabled people have to participate in the paralympic games and can't do Special Olympics. The difference between them is not that one is for people with mental disabilities and the other physical, it's really that in Special Olympics everyone is considered a winner and you really don't need to be trained too hard to participate. Paralympic athletes train for competetive level sports and are the best they can be at them in spite of their disabilities. They're just two different levels of athletecism. If you're not a paralympic athlete but still like sports and competing for fun Special Olympics is okay. I personally had a problem with it though because I didn't feel like it was fair for me to compete against some of the people in my races. I remember going to a swim meet when I was ten or eleven years old and this lady and her older son who was in my race came over and started talking to my mom like they knew exactly who she was. I found out that he was the brother of someone my mom dated in high school and he had Down Syndrome. I just didn't feel right beating out people like that, or others who had to have their coaches walk along the side of the pool to remind them to flip turn or swim another lap for relays while I was only visually impaired and was otherwise physically and mentally not disabled. I miss swimming so much, but I stopped. I think you'd have to weigh out whether or not you'd be bothered over something like that or not, but I wouldn't take your teacher wanting you to do Special Olympics as an insult. He's probably just trying to give you another outlet for sports. On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, John, > > Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are > physically handicapped. > Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. > Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 22:05:11 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 17:05:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mauricio, The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > wait a minute. > are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the special > olimpics? i'm confused. > now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the paralimpics. > > sincerely, > > mauricio > On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >> certain event in mind. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Good morning, John, >>> >>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >>> physically handicapped. >>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 22:13:54 2013 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Ashlee g) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 17:13:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> They do giver awards for special olempics. I sae it. I see nothing wrong with it. I think we all should have a chance to partisipate in all that life has to offer. Just like there r things in braile, there should b things for us who r blind and have other disabilities. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Feb 16, 2013, at 17:05, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Mauricio, > > The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions > for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major > event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across > the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not > nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for > fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. > > On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> wait a minute. >> are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the special >> olimpics? i'm confused. >> now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the paralimpics. >> >> sincerely, >> >> mauricio >> On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >>> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >>> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >>> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >>> certain event in mind. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>> Good morning, John, >>>> >>>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >>>> physically handicapped. >>>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 22:27:42 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:27:42 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Very noble and nice of you Kaiti, the whole thing about the special olympics and competing against people with worse disabilities. Hi John, I definitely don't think you must take it as an insult, I think you're being a bit oversensitive, because first, your professor wanted you to compete in the Special Olympics because he thinks it is for people with physical disabilities. I'm sure if he checked and it was for mentally disabled people he would probably have then changed his mind. It is probably also very good that he is actually taking an interest in you and trying to get you involved in things. Talking about the paraolympics, obviously you guys have heard what has happened with the whole oscar pastorias thing, I think most of us here are really quite shocked. Ari On 2/17/13, Ashlee g wrote: > They do giver awards for special olempics. I sae it. I see nothing wrong > with it. I think we all should have a chance to partisipate in all that life > has to offer. Just like there r things in braile, there should b things for > us who r blind and have other disabilities. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Feb 16, 2013, at 17:05, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Mauricio, >> >> The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions >> for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major >> event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across >> the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not >> nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for >> fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. >> >> On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>> wait a minute. >>> are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the special >>> olimpics? i'm confused. >>> now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the >>> paralimpics. >>> >>> sincerely, >>> >>> mauricio >>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >>>> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >>>> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >>>> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >>>> certain event in mind. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>> Good morning, John, >>>>> >>>>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >>>>> physically handicapped. >>>>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>>>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>>>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>>>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>>>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>>>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>>>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sat Feb 16 22:49:41 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 17:49:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, They do give out medals for first, second, third place, and participation, but I believe everyont receives at least a ribbon or something for participation. It's slightly different from the Parolympics because it's more about giving people with disabilities the opportunity they to play sports, which they otherwise may not have had. Parolympics is for the elete athletes of disabilities, but is just separated from the Olympic Games because it wouldn't be quite fair to have someone with partial amputation or blindness to compete in a sport where limbs or sight might make a non-disabled person automatically get a better time or score. It's just creating level playing fields at the elete level and Parolympics is more just for the fun of playing sports. Ari, I'm not sure what story you're referring to. Would you care to elaborate? I'm interested in hearing about it. On 2/16/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Very noble and nice of you Kaiti, the whole thing about the special > olympics and competing against people with worse disabilities. Hi > John, I definitely don't think you must take it as an insult, I think > you're being a bit oversensitive, because first, your professor wanted > you to compete in the Special Olympics because he thinks it is for > people with physical disabilities. I'm sure if he checked and it was > for mentally disabled people he would probably have then changed his > mind. It is probably also very good that he is actually taking an > interest in you and trying to get you involved in things. > Talking about the paraolympics, obviously you guys have heard what has > happened with the whole oscar pastorias thing, I think most of us here > are really quite shocked. > Ari > On 2/17/13, Ashlee g wrote: >> They do giver awards for special olempics. I sae it. I see nothing wrong >> with it. I think we all should have a chance to partisipate in all that >> life >> has to offer. Just like there r things in braile, there should b things >> for >> us who r blind and have other disabilities. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Feb 16, 2013, at 17:05, Kaiti Shelton >> wrote: >> >>> Mauricio, >>> >>> The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions >>> for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major >>> event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across >>> the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not >>> nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for >>> fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. >>> >>> On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>>> wait a minute. >>>> are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the >>>> special >>>> olimpics? i'm confused. >>>> now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the >>>> paralimpics. >>>> >>>> sincerely, >>>> >>>> mauricio >>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >>>>> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >>>>> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >>>>> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >>>>> certain event in mind. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>> Good morning, John, >>>>>> >>>>>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >>>>>> physically handicapped. >>>>>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>>>>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>>>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>>>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>>>>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>>>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>>>>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>>>>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>>>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>>>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>>>>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>>>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>>>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>>>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>>>>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 00:23:10 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:23:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> Message-ID: hello, Thanks for explaining that, I had no idea what special olimpics were:D mauricio On Feb 16, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Ashley, > > They do give out medals for first, second, third place, and > participation, but I believe everyont receives at least a ribbon or > something for participation. It's slightly different from the > Parolympics because it's more about giving people with disabilities > the opportunity they to play sports, which they otherwise may not have > had. Parolympics is for the elete athletes of disabilities, but is > just separated from the Olympic Games because it wouldn't be quite > fair to have someone with partial amputation or blindness to compete > in a sport where limbs or sight might make a non-disabled person > automatically get a better time or score. It's just creating level > playing fields at the elete level and Parolympics is more just for the > fun of playing sports. > > Ari, I'm not sure what story you're referring to. Would you care to > elaborate? I'm interested in hearing about it. > > On 2/16/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >> Very noble and nice of you Kaiti, the whole thing about the special >> olympics and competing against people with worse disabilities. Hi >> John, I definitely don't think you must take it as an insult, I think >> you're being a bit oversensitive, because first, your professor wanted >> you to compete in the Special Olympics because he thinks it is for >> people with physical disabilities. I'm sure if he checked and it was >> for mentally disabled people he would probably have then changed his >> mind. It is probably also very good that he is actually taking an >> interest in you and trying to get you involved in things. >> Talking about the paraolympics, obviously you guys have heard what has >> happened with the whole oscar pastorias thing, I think most of us here >> are really quite shocked. >> Ari >> On 2/17/13, Ashlee g wrote: >>> They do giver awards for special olempics. I sae it. I see nothing wrong >>> with it. I think we all should have a chance to partisipate in all that >>> life >>> has to offer. Just like there r things in braile, there should b things >>> for >>> us who r blind and have other disabilities. >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> >>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 17:05, Kaiti Shelton >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Mauricio, >>>> >>>> The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions >>>> for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major >>>> event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across >>>> the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not >>>> nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for >>>> fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. >>>> >>>> On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>>>> wait a minute. >>>>> are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the >>>>> special >>>>> olimpics? i'm confused. >>>>> now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the >>>>> paralimpics. >>>>> >>>>> sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> mauricio >>>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >>>>>> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >>>>>> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >>>>>> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >>>>>> certain event in mind. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>>> Good morning, John, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people are >>>>>>> physically handicapped. >>>>>>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>>>>>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>>>>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>>>>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to Fitness >>>>>>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>>>>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that we >>>>>>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for people >>>>>>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>>>>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>>>>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start participating >>>>>>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>>>>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>>>>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>>>>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities were >>>>>>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 06:21:10 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 08:21:10 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <6A3DD29D-739E-40F0-A28E-C620223B6803@gmail.com> <66D3EDED-D4B5-42CA-8B01-F61DCDBC04A3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kaiti I don't know if you know oscar pastorias? He's the guy who runs with those specialy made legs. Anyway, what has happened is he shot and killed his girlfriend. At first people thought it was an accident, he claimed that he thought she was a burglar trying to rob his house in the middle of the night, but now it looks as if what actually happened is he murdered her on purpose. They are saying this now for a few reasons: 1. The neighbours heard them fighting and screaming at each other earlier on in the evening. 2. She was shot 4 times through the bathroom door. All of a sudden, instead of being a disabled role model, there are all sorts of unsavoury stories about him coming out of the woodwork. One is that he took a car for a test drive, and thought himself so much above the law that he drove over 200 kilometres per hour on a normal public road. Another one is that he smashed up a boat because he refused not to drive it when drunk. Psychologists are saying he's got narsicistic disorders. He has been arrested and charged with murder now, so he hasn't been found guilty yet, but it does look that way, and so much else has come out that even if he's not guilty of this people will never think of him like they used to. A very sad morality tale of what happens when fame and ego go to your head, although one would have thought as a disabled person who was relying on many people helping him to pursue his dreams he would have been a bit more humble and careful. On 2/17/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hello, > > Thanks for explaining that, I had no idea what special olimpics were:D > > mauricio > On Feb 16, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton > wrote: > >> Hi Ashley, >> >> They do give out medals for first, second, third place, and >> participation, but I believe everyont receives at least a ribbon or >> something for participation. It's slightly different from the >> Parolympics because it's more about giving people with disabilities >> the opportunity they to play sports, which they otherwise may not have >> had. Parolympics is for the elete athletes of disabilities, but is >> just separated from the Olympic Games because it wouldn't be quite >> fair to have someone with partial amputation or blindness to compete >> in a sport where limbs or sight might make a non-disabled person >> automatically get a better time or score. It's just creating level >> playing fields at the elete level and Parolympics is more just for the >> fun of playing sports. >> >> Ari, I'm not sure what story you're referring to. Would you care to >> elaborate? I'm interested in hearing about it. >> >> On 2/16/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >>> Very noble and nice of you Kaiti, the whole thing about the special >>> olympics and competing against people with worse disabilities. Hi >>> John, I definitely don't think you must take it as an insult, I think >>> you're being a bit oversensitive, because first, your professor wanted >>> you to compete in the Special Olympics because he thinks it is for >>> people with physical disabilities. I'm sure if he checked and it was >>> for mentally disabled people he would probably have then changed his >>> mind. It is probably also very good that he is actually taking an >>> interest in you and trying to get you involved in things. >>> Talking about the paraolympics, obviously you guys have heard what has >>> happened with the whole oscar pastorias thing, I think most of us here >>> are really quite shocked. >>> Ari >>> On 2/17/13, Ashlee g wrote: >>>> They do giver awards for special olempics. I sae it. I see nothing >>>> wrong >>>> with it. I think we all should have a chance to partisipate in all that >>>> life >>>> has to offer. Just like there r things in braile, there should b things >>>> for >>>> us who r blind and have other disabilities. >>>> >>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 17:05, Kaiti Shelton >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mauricio, >>>>> >>>>> The Olympics and Parolympics are the large-scale athletic competitions >>>>> for non-disabled and disabled athletes. Special Olympics has no major >>>>> event like the other two, it's just a regional or state thing across >>>>> the US which allows disabled athletes to compete in sports. It's not >>>>> nearly as competetive as the Parolympic Games though, it's just for >>>>> fun and to give these athletes the opportunity to enjoy sports. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/16/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>>>>> wait a minute. >>>>>> are you saint there are the olimpics, the para olimpics and the >>>>>> special >>>>>> olimpics? i'm confused. >>>>>> now, i know for a given fact that blind people can go on the >>>>>> paralimpics. >>>>>> >>>>>> sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> mauricio >>>>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think he's right that people with physical disabilities can >>>>>>> participate in Special Olympics even if they don't have mental >>>>>>> disabilities. But as you stated, you could also compete in >>>>>>> Paralympics. I think it's up to you and whether or not you have a >>>>>>> certain event in mind. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/16/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>>>>> Good morning, John, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Last time I checked, at least in ol' Sighty's eyes, blind people >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> physically handicapped. >>>>>>>> Don't be insulted, it's the reality that surrounds you. >>>>>>>> Car12:29 PM 2/16/2013, John Moore wrote: >>>>>>>>> I do not know if I hsould take this as an insult or as advice, >>>>>>>>> because I've heard two different things. I'm in an Intro to >>>>>>>>> Fitness >>>>>>>>> class that is required for my degree and the professor happens to >>>>>>>>> volunteer for the Special Olympics. I have heard all my life that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> cannot be in the Special Olympics, as that is apparently for >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> with intellectual disabilities. However, he told me that it is not >>>>>>>>> just for people with said disabilities, even when I told him about >>>>>>>>> the Paralympics. He said he would try to helo me start >>>>>>>>> participating >>>>>>>>> in Special Olympics events. I'm ont sure if I should feel insulted >>>>>>>>> or not; if it turns out that people who have physical disabilities >>>>>>>>> can participate in certain events, I'd start doing it. But I don't >>>>>>>>> know what to think becasue he told me that all the disabilities >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> physical ones. It is weird, I know. What do you all think? >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From coasterfreak88 at me.com Sun Feb 17 06:38:52 2013 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:38:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1F9F588B-AD5D-48FB-A13F-F77C4613BA03@me.com> Thanks for the feedback guys. Btw Kaiti, the Special Olympics do have international summer and winter games. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 19:15:21 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:15:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A weird question that came up for me recently. In-Reply-To: <1F9F588B-AD5D-48FB-A13F-F77C4613BA03@me.com> References: <07AFBE1B-054D-48EC-A641-E6466D441A66@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130216131056.01cfc258@comcast.net> <1F9F588B-AD5D-48FB-A13F-F77C4613BA03@me.com> Message-ID: Hi all, John: Thanks, I didn't know that. It's been almost 10 years since I did it, but that's really interesting. Ari: Wow, that's horrible. Hopefully they can get him the help he needs. On 2/17/13, John Moore wrote: > Thanks for the feedback guys. Btw Kaiti, the Special Olympics do have > international summer and winter games. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From brownbears at mchsi.com Sun Feb 17 23:14:55 2013 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:14:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers Message-ID: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> Hi, My printer has quit working on me today. Does anyone have any suggestions for printers that are accessible? Sincerely, Miranda From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 23:38:57 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:38:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Hi, I have an HP Deskjet and I love it. It's got a scanner and copier in it which is great for scanning music, and the buttons are easy to learn. I believe it's one of the 400 series. On 2/17/13, Miranda Morse wrote: > Hi, > > My printer has quit working on me today. Does anyone have any suggestions > for printers that are accessible? > > Sincerely, > > Miranda > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 23:46:22 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:46:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Maryland Association of Blind Students teleconference tonight Message-ID: <002e01ce0d68$fe662530$fb326f90$@gmail.com> Hello fellow Federationists, Tonight at 7 PM Eastern Time, the Maryland Association of Blind Students will have an open teleconference meeting of the Board of Directors to discuss plans for a seminar to be held in April. Unlike our seminars in the past, this seminar will focus on social issues as they relate to blindness: table and other social ettiquet, fashion, nonvisual techniques for cooking and eating, etc. Now that the Board has already discussed our ideas for this seminar, we are asking you for your input and ideas. Federationists from Maryland who are not currently students as well as NABS members and Federationists from other states are also welcome. We need all the input we can get, and we would love to hear all your ideas! To join this conference call, please call (712) 432-6499. When you hear the music indicating that you have called into the Conversation Station, press the pound key. Once you are in the main menu, press 1 for live chat rooms. Finally, enter the room code 63227 (which spells MDABS on your phone's keypad) followed by the pound key. You are now in the room. I look forward to talking with some of you on the call! I know this is short notice, and I apologize for this, but I hope some of you will be able to make it. Talk with you tonight! Thanks, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National Federation of the Blind of Maryland Phone: (443) 547-2409 Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.comm Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs Friend me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind Students Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the Louisiana Center for the Blind From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 23:50:36 2013 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:50:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <588927FE-89C0-413F-AE0E-BA86C916FF8B@gmail.com> Hello, I have a cannon mp280 printer that was very cheap and the buttons can be easily labelled. It has a printer, scanner, and copier in it. If I remember correctly, the drivers were very easy to install on my laptop. With this printer, the drivers can be downloaded from the Internet by just plugging the printer into the computer. I hope this helps! Best, Aleeha Aleeha dudley On Feb 17, 2013, at 6:38 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi, > > I have an HP Deskjet and I love it. It's got a scanner and copier in > it which is great for scanning music, and the buttons are easy to > learn. I believe it's one of the 400 series. > > On 2/17/13, Miranda Morse wrote: >> Hi, >> >> My printer has quit working on me today. Does anyone have any suggestions >> for printers that are accessible? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Miranda >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net Sun Feb 17 23:56:28 2013 From: devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:56:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> Do you know what type of printer you are looking for? Ink jet, laser, color laser, all in one ink jet, all in one laser? That will make it easier to recommend something. I can define any of these if necessary. Joe From brownbears at mchsi.com Mon Feb 18 00:35:21 2013 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:35:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> I really don't know. I want one that is affordable and that is in all in one beyond that I am clueless. I currently have a HP officejet 6500 series. Miranda -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. Lininger Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 5:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers Do you know what type of printer you are looking for? Ink jet, laser, color laser, all in one ink jet, all in one laser? That will make it easier to recommend something. I can define any of these if necessary. Joe _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com From devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net Mon Feb 18 00:52:21 2013 From: devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:52:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you find something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a Cannon MF4370DN that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser printer. It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable speed and high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to install their drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's not a good choice. Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with the initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such can be done through its web interface. The buttons on the device itself are laid out logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. If you don't want the networking capability, they also sell the MF4350D which is the same device but without the networking ability. The network-able model, last time I checked, sold for about $200. Joe From jim.hulme at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 01:50:52 2013 From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:50:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Maryland Association of Blind Students teleconference tonight In-Reply-To: <002e01ce0d68$fe662530$fb326f90$@gmail.com> References: <002e01ce0d68$fe662530$fb326f90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Chris, I tried calling you. However, you might be understandably busy. I missed tonight's conference call and would like New Jersey to join your conference calls. How do you get the latest copy of the Student Slate from 2013?? the nabslink website is July 2012. Please get back to me asap. James T. Hulme 609-660-0699 (H) 908-868-2836 (M) jim.hulme at gmail.com Find me on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hulme1 Twitter: @JimHulmeLookout On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hello fellow Federationists, > > > > Tonight at 7 PM Eastern Time, the Maryland Association of Blind Students > will have an open teleconference meeting of the Board of Directors to > discuss plans for a seminar to be held in April. Unlike our seminars in the > past, this seminar will focus on social issues as they relate to blindness: > table and other social ettiquet, fashion, nonvisual techniques for cooking > and eating, etc. Now that the Board has already discussed our ideas for > this > seminar, we are asking you for your input and ideas. Federationists from > Maryland who are not currently students as well as NABS members and > Federationists from other states are also welcome. We need all the input we > can get, and we would love to hear all your ideas! > > > > To join this conference call, please call (712) 432-6499. When you hear > the > music indicating that you have called into the Conversation Station, press > the pound key. Once you are in the main menu, press 1 for live chat rooms. > Finally, enter the room code 63227 (which spells MDABS on your phone's > keypad) followed by the pound key. You are now in the room. > > > > I look forward to talking with some of you on the call! I know this is > short > notice, and I apologize for this, but I hope some of you will be able to > make it. Talk with you tonight! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chris > > > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > > Public Relations Committee > > Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National > Federation of the Blind of Maryland > > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.comm > > Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 > > MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs > > Friend me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid > > Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind > Students > > > > Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum > > > > "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the > Louisiana Center for the Blind > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com > From zerone1683 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 02:09:20 2013 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:09:20 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <000301ce0d7c$f783d140$e68b73c0$@com> I used to have a HP 5600 series Officejet, but now I have a Canon ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw and I love it. >From my recent experiences, the Canon performs much better than the HP, and the Canon ToolBox software is accessible with a screen reader on the computer. Although both the HP and the Canon are all-in-one machines, I went from inkjet to laser. Also, the MF8380Cdw allows me to scan and print double sided. C.C. Alan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. Lininger Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you find something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a Cannon MF4370DN that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser printer. It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable speed and high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to install their drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's not a good choice. Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with the initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such can be done through its web interface. The buttons on the device itself are laid out logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. If you don't want the networking capability, they also sell the MF4350D which is the same device but without the networking ability. The network-able model, last time I checked, sold for about $200. Joe _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 02:41:45 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:41:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Maryland Association of Blind Students teleconference tonight In-Reply-To: References: <002e01ce0d68$fe662530$fb326f90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501ce0d81$7eaa37f0$7bfea7d0$@gmail.com> James, You must be the person who tried to call me earlier, but when I answered the call it somehow disconnected. I will try to call you again. If this is too late for you, please feel free to call me tomorrow or Tuesday. I will not be available for most of the afternoon tomorrow, but if you leave me a message I will call you back. I would love to discuss some sort of collaboration with New Jersey's student division with you! Thanks, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National Federation of the Blind of Maryland Phone: (443) 547-2409 Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.comm Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs Friend me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind Students Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the Louisiana Center for the Blind -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hulme Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: Christopher Nusbaum Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Maryland Association of Blind Students teleconference tonight Hello Chris, I tried calling you. However, you might be understandably busy. I missed tonight's conference call and would like New Jersey to join your conference calls. How do you get the latest copy of the Student Slate from 2013?? the nabslink website is July 2012. Please get back to me asap. James T. Hulme 609-660-0699 (H) 908-868-2836 (M) jim.hulme at gmail.com Find me on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hulme1 Twitter: @JimHulmeLookout On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hello fellow Federationists, > > > > Tonight at 7 PM Eastern Time, the Maryland Association of Blind > Students will have an open teleconference meeting of the Board of > Directors to discuss plans for a seminar to be held in April. Unlike > our seminars in the past, this seminar will focus on social issues as they relate to blindness: > table and other social ettiquet, fashion, nonvisual techniques for > cooking and eating, etc. Now that the Board has already discussed our > ideas for this seminar, we are asking you for your input and ideas. > Federationists from Maryland who are not currently students as well as > NABS members and Federationists from other states are also welcome. We > need all the input we can get, and we would love to hear all your > ideas! > > > > To join this conference call, please call (712) 432-6499. When you > hear the music indicating that you have called into the Conversation > Station, press the pound key. Once you are in the main menu, press 1 > for live chat rooms. > Finally, enter the room code 63227 (which spells MDABS on your phone's > keypad) followed by the pound key. You are now in the room. > > > > I look forward to talking with some of you on the call! I know this is > short notice, and I apologize for this, but I hope some of you will be > able to make it. Talk with you tonight! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chris > > > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > > Public Relations Committee > > Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National > Federation of the Blind of Maryland > > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.comm > > Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 > > MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs > > Friend me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid > > Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of > Blind Students > > > > Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum > > > > "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the > Louisiana Center for the Blind > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From jty727 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 02:51:47 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:51:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <000301ce0d7c$f783d140$e68b73c0$@com> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> <000301ce0d7c$f783d140$e68b73c0$@com> Message-ID: Hello, Are you saying the Canon is an all-in-one lazarjet printer? It sounds like an interesting device which I might look into getting. Justin On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: > I used to have a HP 5600 series Officejet, but now I have a Canon > ImageCLASS > MF8380Cdw and I love it. > From my recent experiences, the Canon performs much better than the HP, and > the Canon ToolBox software is accessible with a screen reader on the > computer. > Although both the HP and the Canon are all-in-one machines, I went from > inkjet to laser. > Also, the MF8380Cdw allows me to scan and print double sided. > > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. > Lininger > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers > > Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you find > something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a Cannon MF4370DN > that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser printer. > It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable speed > and > high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to install their > drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's not a good choice. > Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in > network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with the > initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such can be done > through its web interface. The buttons on the device itself are laid out > logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. If you don't want the > networking capability, they also sell the MF4350D which is the same device > but without the networking ability. The network-able model, last time I > checked, sold for about $200. > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From zerone1683 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 03:49:10 2013 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:49:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> <000301ce0d7c$f783d140$e68b73c0$@com> Message-ID: <000001ce0d8a$ea4bb0c0$bee31240$@com> Hello Justin: Yes, Canon does have all-in-one printers besides just stand alone scanners and printers. They also have the printers in either inkjet or laser. Originally, I was looking for a better scanning device for reading snail mail but still wanted a consolidated machine due to limited space. HP does quite well for printing but Canon out performs with scanning. Also, I am not too crazy about laser because laser cartridges are pricier than inkjet cartridges. Either way, the Canon all-in-one unit is an excellent investment that will last a long time. If you want to look into the Canon ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw, you can find it at http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/511186/Canon-imageCLASS-MF8380Cdw-Colo r-Laser-All/ Be aware, though, that the unit is quite large and a bit heavy. C.C. Alan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers Hello, Are you saying the Canon is an all-in-one lazarjet printer? It sounds like an interesting device which I might look into getting. Justin On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: > I used to have a HP 5600 series Officejet, but now I have a Canon > ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw and I love it. > From my recent experiences, the Canon performs much better than the > HP, and the Canon ToolBox software is accessible with a screen reader > on the computer. > Although both the HP and the Canon are all-in-one machines, I went > from inkjet to laser. > Also, the MF8380Cdw allows me to scan and print double sided. > > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. > Lininger > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers > > Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you > find something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a > Cannon MF4370DN that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser printer. > It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable > speed and high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to > install their drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's > not a good choice. > Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in > network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with > the initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such > can be done through its web interface. The buttons on the device > itself are laid out logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. > If you don't want the networking capability, they also sell the > MF4350D which is the same device but without the networking ability. > The network-able model, last time I checked, sold for about $200. > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 04:27:39 2013 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:27:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <000001ce0d8a$ea4bb0c0$bee31240$@com> References: <000601ce0d64$9e910d40$dbb327c0$@mchsi.com> <51216E2C.9020005@pcdesk.net> <000001ce0d6f$d61f27a0$825d76e0$@mchsi.com> <51217B45.7080509@pcdesk.net> <000301ce0d7c$f783d140$e68b73c0$@com> <000001ce0d8a$ea4bb0c0$bee31240$@com> Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback & advice! Justin On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: > Hello Justin: > > Yes, Canon does have all-in-one printers besides just stand alone scanners > and printers. > They also have the printers in either inkjet or laser. > Originally, I was looking for a better scanning device for reading snail > mail but still wanted a consolidated machine due to limited space. > HP does quite well for printing but Canon out performs with scanning. > Also, I am not too crazy about laser because laser cartridges are pricier > than inkjet cartridges. > Either way, the Canon all-in-one unit is an excellent investment that will > last a long time. > If you want to look into the Canon ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw, you can find it at > http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/511186/Canon-imageCLASS-MF8380Cdw-Colo > r-Laser-All/ > Be aware, though, that the unit is quite large and a bit heavy. > > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers > > Hello, > > Are you saying the Canon is an all-in-one lazarjet printer? It sounds like > an interesting device which I might look into getting. > > Justin > > On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> I used to have a HP 5600 series Officejet, but now I have a Canon >> ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw and I love it. >> From my recent experiences, the Canon performs much better than the >> HP, and the Canon ToolBox software is accessible with a screen reader >> on the computer. >> Although both the HP and the Canon are all-in-one machines, I went >> from inkjet to laser. >> Also, the MF8380Cdw allows me to scan and print double sided. >> >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. >> Lininger >> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers >> >> Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you >> find something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a >> Cannon MF4370DN that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser > printer. >> It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable >> speed and high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to >> install their drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's >> not a good choice. >> Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in >> network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with >> the initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such >> can be done through its web interface. The buttons on the device >> itself are laid out logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. >> If you don't want the networking capability, they also sell the >> MF4350D which is the same device but without the networking ability. >> The network-able model, last time I checked, sold for about $200. >> Joe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From jsoro620 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 14:05:51 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:05:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are You Living Someone Else's Dream? Message-ID: <009401ce0de1$0fa38360$2eea8a20$@gmail.com> Hi, Over the past few weeks it's been exciting to see the mix of new and familiar names that keep this list the best of its kind. I also have to wonder how in the world I once had the time to keep up with the traffic! Anyway, by way of a brief re-introduction, I am a former NABS board member, former TABS president, current working professional living in DC yada yada. The more important characteristic about myself is that I am not so many years removed from most of you guys, and as I get closer to releasing my first young adult novella, it occurred to me that my literary network is primarily made up of other writers. To that end, I hope you won't mind my occasional article post on topics of interest to the young and the young at heart ranging from college prep to financial management and just about everything in between. In essence, it's the suggestions I wish someone would have pounded into my head when I was an undergrad. My aim is not blindness-specific, but if I thought of this list as a promotion platform, it's because I think you have a lot of valuable suggestions to pass along to young and new adults, blind and sighted alike. Tempting as it's been, I won't throw my twenty dollar's worth into your discussion threads. With that, here's the first in the series: Are You Living Someone Else's Dream? Too many young people wind up in jobs they hate because they followed someone else's advice about how to use their talents. You would think that after a certain age we would be capable of making major choices independent of the influence of family, friends, or career guides, but too often we allow someone else's well-intentioned promptings to steer us in directions we would never have chosen for ourselves. As a child my father thought I would make a good concert pianist. I love the piano and will one day master it, because it is equal parts challenging and relaxing, but playing the piano is fun for me so long as it remains a hobby. That's the first lesson: Learn to separate your passion from your leisure. Your passion usually wants to satisfy others, whereas your leisure only has to satisfy you. Read the rest of the article: http://joeorozco.com/blog_are_you_living_someone_elses_dream Joe From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 14:38:22 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:38:22 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Good morning, List, Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >Hello Desiree and List, > >I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is >to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > >I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through >is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there >are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than >simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other >local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific >hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide >some resources. > >If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be >able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar >disorder as well. > >Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >that lists various community services. And although your personal >situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >the future. > >Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the community. > >So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing >them with the whole entire world. > >Respectfully, >Elizabeth > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Desiree Oudinot" >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>hi Elizabeth, >>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >>myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >>and permanent backlash. >> >>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>Hello David, >>> >>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not >>> >>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>details of your personal relationship. >>> >>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This >>> >>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to >>> >>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such >>> >>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>> >>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are >>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how >>> >>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the >>> >>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general >>> >>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate >>>for this email list. >>> >>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal >>> >>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would >>> >>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >>>than in a public email list. >>> >>>Respectfully, >>>Elizabeth >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what actually >>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to really >>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that there >>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>>beginning >>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>>>think >>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>>suffer >>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>>>past >>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>>were >>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>relationship >>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. Some >>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>>didn't >>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>>>me >>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>>started >>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>>>egg >>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>>>I'd >>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>Shelton >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>program >>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>>before >>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We were >>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>>>work >>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>>even >>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>>>with >>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>finished >>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>>university >>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>>>and >>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>>>other >>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>with >>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>>than >>>>every few months. >>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do with >>>>the >>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>>skills, >>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>>>other >>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>>sighted >>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is >>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>>important >>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>strengthen >>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and appreciated >>>>the >>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>>priviledges >>>>for both of us. >>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>restrictions, >>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>>always >>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>>seeing >>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>>>keep >>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >>>>willing to make things work. >>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life keep >>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>>where >>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>>classes. >>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>>plane >>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>>distance >>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>>works >>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>>school >>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and make >>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>> >>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>>hypocritical. >>>>> >>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>>>relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>>>ship? >>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>Koby. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>>Trist >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>list>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>>>they never work. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>>mind off things. >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have bipolar >>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>>anyhow. >>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>>>in Colorado. >>>>>>Mind >>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>Maybe >>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>them. >>>>>>My >>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they may >>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>>m >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>>l.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Kaiti >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 14:49:16 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:49:16 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: I agree David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor adds something to the support David is looking for. I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. Ari On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, List, > > Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>Hello Desiree and List, >> >>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is >>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. >> >>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through >>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there >>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than >>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >> >>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other >>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific >>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide >>some resources. >> >>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be >>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar >>disorder as well. >> >>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>the future. >> >>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >> community. >> >>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing >>them with the whole entire world. >> >>Respectfully, >>Elizabeth >> >>-------------------------------------------------- >>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>>hi Elizabeth, >>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >>>and permanent backlash. >>> >>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>Hello David, >>>> >>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>> not >>>> >>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>> >>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>> This >>>> >>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >>>> to >>>> >>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>> such >>>> >>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>> >>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>> are >>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>> how >>>> >>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >>>> the >>>> >>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>> general >>>> >>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>> appropriate >>>>for this email list. >>>> >>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>> personal >>>> >>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>> would >>>> >>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>> rather >>>>than in a public email list. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>> actually >>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>>>> really >>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>>>> there >>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>>>beginning >>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>>>>think >>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>>>suffer >>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>>>>past >>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>>> crying >>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>>>were >>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>>relationship >>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>> Some >>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>>>didn't >>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>>>>me >>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>>>started >>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>>>>egg >>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>>>>I'd >>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>Shelton >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>>program >>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>>>before >>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>>>> were >>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>>>>work >>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>>>even >>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our >>>>> blind >>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>>>>with >>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>>finished >>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>>>university >>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>>>>and >>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>>>>other >>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>with >>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>>>than >>>>>every few months. >>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>> with >>>>>the >>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>>>skills, >>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>>>>other >>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>>>sighted >>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness >>>>> is >>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>>>important >>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, >>>>> or >>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>>strengthen >>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>> appreciated >>>>>the >>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>>>priviledges >>>>>for both of us. >>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>restrictions, >>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>>>always >>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>>>seeing >>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>>>>keep >>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>>>> really >>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>> really >>>>>willing to make things work. >>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>> keep >>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>>>where >>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>>>classes. >>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>>>plane >>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>>>distance >>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>>>works >>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>>>school >>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and >>>>> make >>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>> >>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>>>hypocritical. >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>>>>relationship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>>>>ship? >>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>>>Trist >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>list>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>>>>they never work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>>>mind off things. >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>> bipolar >>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>>>anyhow. >>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>>>>in Colorado. >>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>>them. >>>>>>>My >>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>>> may >>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>>>m >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>>>l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Kaiti >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 15:05:32 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:05:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218070241.01d29d30@comcast.net> I'm with Ari, sometimes, as with questions of O&M, blindness does matter, in such a way that counselors att school, or in any other crisis forum won't be as effective, let alone satisfying. CarAt 06:49 AM 2/18/2013, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >I agree >David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list >where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact >of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are >mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor >adds something to the support David is looking for. >I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers >and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular >crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness >point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific >crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. >Ari > >On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > Good morning, List, > > > > Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > > act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > > expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > > forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > > into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > > Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > > peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > > He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > > a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > > I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > > 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>Hello Desiree and List, > >> > >>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is > >>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > >> > >>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through > >>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there > >>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than > >>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >> > >>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other > >>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific > >>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide > >>some resources. > >> > >>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, > >>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be > >>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar > >>disorder as well. > >> > >>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem > >>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in > >>the future. > >> > >>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from > >>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the > >> community. > >> > >>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing > >>them with the whole entire world. > >> > >>Respectfully, > >>Elizabeth > >> > >>-------------------------------------------------- > >>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> > >>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's > >>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about > >>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > >>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell > >>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no > >>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I > >>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > >>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > >>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how > >>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their > >>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of > >>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that > >>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job > >>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list > >>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel > >>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out > >>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > >>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you > >>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was > >>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate > >>>and permanent backlash. > >>> > >>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>Hello David, > >>>> > >>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am > >>>> not > >>>> > >>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > >>>>details of your personal relationship. > >>>> > >>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > >>>> This > >>>> > >>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed > >>>> to > >>>> > >>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > >>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing > >>>> such > >>>> > >>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>> > >>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that > >>>> are > >>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see > >>>> how > >>>> > >>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > >>>> general > >>>> > >>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific > >>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>> appropriate > >>>>for this email list. > >>>> > >>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > >>>> personal > >>>> > >>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > >>>> would > >>>> > >>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > >>>> rather > >>>>than in a public email list. > >>>> > >>>>Respectfully, > >>>>Elizabeth > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>> > >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>> actually > >>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to > >>>>> really > >>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that > >>>>> there > >>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the > >>>>>beginning > >>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't > >>>>>think > >>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I > >>>>>suffer > >>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma > >>>>>past > >>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the > >>>>> crying > >>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells > >>>>>were > >>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > >>>>>relationship > >>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. > >>>>> Some > >>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she > >>>>>didn't > >>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell > >>>>>me > >>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she > >>>>>started > >>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the > >>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on > >>>>>egg > >>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and > >>>>>I'd > >>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > >>>>> > >>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>>>Shelton > >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > >>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > >>>>>program > >>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer > >>>>>before > >>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We > >>>>> were > >>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it > >>>>>work > >>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he > >>>>>even > >>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our > >>>>> blind > >>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory > >>>>>with > >>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he > >>>>>finished > >>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a > >>>>>university > >>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me > >>>>>and > >>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > >>>>>other > >>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but > >>>>>with > >>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better > >>>>>than > >>>>>every few months. > >>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > >>>>> with > >>>>>the > >>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to > >>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication > >>>>>skills, > >>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of > >>>>>other > >>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into > >>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than > >>>>>sighted > >>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness > >>>>> is > >>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is > >>>>>important > >>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, > >>>>> or > >>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > >>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > >>>>>strengthen > >>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>> appreciated > >>>>>the > >>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were > >>>>>priviledges > >>>>>for both of us. > >>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>restrictions, > >>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It > >>>>>always > >>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not > >>>>>seeing > >>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd > >>>>>keep > >>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to > >>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they > >>>>> really > >>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were > >>>>> really > >>>>>willing to make things work. > >>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > >>>>> keep > >>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college > >>>>>where > >>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between > >>>>>classes. > >>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > >>>>>plane > >>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long > >>>>>distance > >>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything > >>>>>works > >>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and > >>>>>school > >>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and > >>>>> make > >>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical > >>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>> > >>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > >>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > >>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > >>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > >>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > >>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when > >>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > >>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > >>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > >>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > >>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > >>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I > >>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how > >>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications > >>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > >>>>>>hypocritical. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if > >>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the > >>>>>>>relationship. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation > >>>>>>>ship? > >>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > >>>>>>>Trist > >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > >>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > >>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > >>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > >>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe > >>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > >>>>>>>they never work. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > >>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its > >>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot > >>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > >>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you > >>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel > >>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your > >>>>>>>mind off things. > >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>> bipolar > >>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > >>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > >>>>>>>anyhow. > >>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > >>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the > >>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we > >>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > >>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > >>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and > >>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > >>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > >>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears > >>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well > >>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few > >>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some > >>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't > >>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy > >>>>>>>in Colorado. > >>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > >>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played > >>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who > >>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot > >>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > >>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > >>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > >>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > >>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > >>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > >>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > >>>>>>>them. > >>>>>>>My > >>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > >>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good > >>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > >>>>>>>%40gm > >>>>>>> ail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > >>>>>>>0gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>>>>>>%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > >>>>>>>il.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower > 17%40gmail.co > >>>>>m > >>>>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clari > net104%40gmai > >>>>>l.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-- > >>>>>Kaiti > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125 > %40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%4 > 0hotmail.com > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>nabs-l: > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1 > 7%40gmail.com > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40h > otmail.com > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 15:46:38 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:46:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074049.01c0d280@comcast.net> Hi, List, Perhaps, for specifically bipolar stuff, larger communities might provide some help but must this so-called blind one treat poor Dave as if he is some pariah? I can imagine we cold be eliciting in Dave feelings of deeper alienation, and self doubt. I understand, families are often dysfunctional, but where are our open arms, when apparently they are most needed? Car : >Hi Dave and all, >I think the issues you are going through are quite common in the >sighted world and you would probably get more and better support on a >list geared toward relationships in general or an email support list >for people with depression or bipolar, rather than a list for blind >people specifically. I'm sure there are several Internet communities >out there for people with depression or bipolar who may have had >similar experiences. Best of luck and I'll be thinking of you during >this difficult time. >Arielle > >On 2/13/13, Dave Webster wrote: > > Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in my > > initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would be. > > Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get > > support > > for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any > > but. > > I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not trying > > to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out there > > particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long > > distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so > > much. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth > > Mohnke > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > > Hello David, > > > > I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not > > quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > > details of your personal relationship. > > > > The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This > > means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed > > to > > this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > > internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such > > personal information about yourself on this email list. > > > > In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are > > relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how > > disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to > > the > > intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general > > could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific > > individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate > > for this email list. > > > > Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal > > life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > > would > > be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather > > than in a public email list. > > > > Respectfully, > > Elizabeth > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Dave Webster" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > >> Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >> actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I > >> had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. > >> She said that there were some things about me that she thought she > >> could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when > >> it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things > >> was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my > >> bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just > >> about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells > >> really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so > >> intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > >> relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry > >> really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell > >> me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. > >> when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before > >> she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If > >> she would have said something in the beginning it would have been > >> easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would > >> talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I > >> guess it was just really really hard for her. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >> Shelton > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > >> distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > >> program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the > >> summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance > >> situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and > >> stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would > >> come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go > >> together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find > >> our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room > >> it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local > >> community college and worked on transfering to a university in the > >> same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and > >> in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > >> other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every > >> day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's > >> a lot better than every few months. > >> I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > >> with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils > >> down to preference of both people in the relationship, their > >> communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance > >> relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes > >> blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get > >> wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can > >> sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not > >> a personality trait or something that really is important in a > >> relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or > >> that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > >> committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > >> strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, > >> and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > >> because they were priviledges for both of us. > >> High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >> restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > >> relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > >> school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > >> weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship > >> going once they and their boyfriend started going to different > >> colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't > >> appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really > >> willing to make things work. > >> School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > >> keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like > >> college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after > >> or between classes. > >> It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > >> plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a > >> long distance relationship should be to make it short distance > >> assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for > >> transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as > >> happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like > >> Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the > >> circumstances. Kudos! > >> > >> On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > >>> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > >>> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > >>> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > >>> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > >>> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply > >>> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >>> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > >>> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > >>> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > >>> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > >>> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > >>> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy > >>> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and > >>> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on > >>> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > >>> hypocritical. > >>> > >>> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if > >>>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of > >>>> the relationship. > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> Sophie, > >>>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>> relation ship? > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Koby. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > >>>> Trist > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > >>>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > >>>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > >>>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > >>>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe > >>>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>>> > >>>> Sincerely, > >>>> Sophie > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Sarah >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>> list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > >>>> they never work. > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > >>>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its > >>>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a > >>>> lot of crying spells. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria > >>>> G > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > >>>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you > >>>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel > >>>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your > >>>> mind off things. > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I > >>>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to > >>>> post it anyhow. > >>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > >>>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at > >>>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > >>>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > >>>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan > >>>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna > >>>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care > >>>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when > >>>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having > >>>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had > >>>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about > >>>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because > >>>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said > >>>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going > >>>> to see this guy in Colorado. > >>>> Mind > >>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > >>>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played > >>>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who > >>>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot > >>>> of crying spells. > >>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > >>>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > >>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>> Loosing my > >>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > >>>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > >>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > >>>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > >>>> Maybe > >>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > >>>> them. > >>>> My > >>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > >>>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > >>>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > >>>> %40gm > >>>> ail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > >>>> 0gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>>> %40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>> r%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > >>>> il.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>> r%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > >> ail.co > >> m > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > >> 40gmai > >> l.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Kaiti > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai > >> l.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai > >> l.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 15:55:33 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:55:33 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> Good morning, Elizabeth, You don't think Dave fully weighed the remote possibility of people reading about his emotional upset, prior to posting his problems, here? Yes, he is in a great deal of pain, but he can't be the only one to deal with stuff like this. So what if people see? Dave, shame on you for daring to have human problems! :05 PM 2/13/2013, Dave Webster wrote: >Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in my >initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would be. >Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get support >for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any but. >I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not trying >to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out there >particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long >distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so >much. >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth >Mohnke >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >Hello David, > >I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am not >quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >details of your personal relationship. > >The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. This >means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed to >this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing such >personal information about yourself on this email list. > >In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are >relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see how >disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to the >intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in general >could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate >for this email list. > >Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your personal >life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship would >be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >than in a public email list. > >Respectfully, >Elizabeth > > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Dave Webster" >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I > > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. > > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she > > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when > > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things > > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my > > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just > > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells > > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so > > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry > > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell > > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. > > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before > > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If > > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been > > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would > > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I > > guess it was just really really hard for her. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > > Shelton > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the > > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance > > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and > > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would > > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go > > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find > > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room > > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local > > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the > > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and > > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every > > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's > > a lot better than every few months. > > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils > > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their > > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance > > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes > > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get > > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can > > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not > > a personality trait or something that really is important in a > > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or > > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, > > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > > because they were priviledges for both of us. > > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship > > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different > > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't > > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really > > willing to make things work. > > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like > > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after > > or between classes. > > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a > > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance > > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for > > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as > > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like > > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the > > circumstances. Kudos! > > > > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply > >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy > >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and > >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on > >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > >> hypocritical. > >> > >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if > >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of > >>> the relationship. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> Sophie, > >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>> relation ship? > >>> Thanks, > >>> Koby. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > >>> Trist > >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe > >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>> > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Sophie > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Sarah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>> list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > >>> they never work. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its > >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a > >>> lot of crying spells. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria > >>> G > >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you > >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel > >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your > >>> mind off things. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>> > >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I > >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to > >>> post it anyhow. > >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare > >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at > >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to > >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so > >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan > >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna > >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care > >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when > >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having > >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had > >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about > >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because > >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said > >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going > >>> to see this guy in Colorado. > >>> Mind > >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played > >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who > >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot > >>> of crying spells. > >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and > >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>> Loosing my > >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and > >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well > >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > >>> Maybe > >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > >>> them. > >>> My > >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > >>> %40gm > >>> ail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 > >>> 0gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > >>> il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > > ail.co > > m > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > > 40gmai > > l.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Kaiti > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai > > l.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai > > l.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Feb 18 16:04:57 2013 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:04:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just a note about laser cartridges, they are more expensive but often will print many more pages than an ink-jet cartridge. There also isn't the issue with having to wait for ink to dry, but there are times when ink-jet printing looks better as I understand it. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:27:39 -0500, Justin Young wrote: >Thanks for the feedback & advice! >Justin >On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> Hello Justin: >> >> Yes, Canon does have all-in-one printers besides just stand alone scanners >> and printers. >> They also have the printers in either inkjet or laser. >> Originally, I was looking for a better scanning device for reading snail >> mail but still wanted a consolidated machine due to limited space. >> HP does quite well for printing but Canon out performs with scanning. >> Also, I am not too crazy about laser because laser cartridges are pricier >> than inkjet cartridges. >> Either way, the Canon all-in-one unit is an excellent investment that will >> last a long time. >> If you want to look into the Canon ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw, you can find it at >> http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/511186/Canon-imageCLASS-MF8380Cdw-Colo >> r-Laser-All/ >> Be aware, though, that the unit is quite large and a bit heavy. >> >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers >> >> Hello, >> >> Are you saying the Canon is an all-in-one lazarjet printer? It sounds like >> an interesting device which I might look into getting. >> >> Justin >> >> On 2/17/13, Chun Chao wrote: >>> I used to have a HP 5600 series Officejet, but now I have a Canon >>> ImageCLASS MF8380Cdw and I love it. >>> From my recent experiences, the Canon performs much better than the >>> HP, and the Canon ToolBox software is accessible with a screen reader >>> on the computer. >>> Although both the HP and the Canon are all-in-one machines, I went >>> from inkjet to laser. >>> Also, the MF8380Cdw allows me to scan and print double sided. >>> >>> C.C. Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. >>> Lininger >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:52 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Printers >>> >>> Ok, well, if you want something cheaper I would be happy to help you >>> find something. However, just as an opening suggestion, I have a >>> Cannon MF4370DN that I'm happy with. It's a fax/copier/scanner/laser >> printer. >>> It's designed for use in office environments, so it has reasonable >>> speed and high resolution for both scanning and printing. You have to >>> install their drivers to make it work, so if you're using Linux it's >>> not a good choice. >>> Under Windows, however, it works great. It has USB as well as built in >>> network capability if you want that. You might need a little help with >>> the initial setup, but after that all of the configuration and such >>> can be done through its web interface. The buttons on the device >>> itself are laid out logicly so you can learn them with relative ease. >>> If you don't want the networking capability, they also sell the >>> MF4350D which is the same device but without the networking ability. >>> The network-able model, last time I checked, sold for about $200. >>> Joe >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Feb 18 17:07:08 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:07:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com><000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello Carly and All, I never once said that it was not okay for David to be human and express his emotions. I simply questioned whether or not this email list was the most appropriate place to do it. As I understand it, David appears to be going through a period of personal grieve and loss in his life. I would hate to see someone take advantage of his situation, and cause more hurt and pain in his life. Think about it this way. Would you be willing to disclose this same personal information in a room full of strangers that you do not know such as in a large shopping mall or in front of a class full of students? If the answer is no, then perhaps the information you wish to share does not belong on a public email list. Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but these are just my thoughts. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Carly Mihalakis" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Good morning, Elizabeth, > > You don't think Dave fully weighed the remote possibility of people > reading about his emotional upset, prior to posting his problems, here? > Yes, he is in a great deal of pain, but he can't be the only one to deal > with stuff like this. So what if people see? > Dave, shame on you for daring to have human problems! :05 PM 2/13/2013, > Dave Webster wrote: >>Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in my >>initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would >>be. >>Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get >>support >>for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any >>but. >>I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not trying >>to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out there >>particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long >>distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so >>much. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth >>Mohnke >>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>Hello David, >> >>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>not >>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>details of your personal relationship. >> >>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>This >>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >>to >>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>such >>personal information about yourself on this email list. >> >>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that are >>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>how >>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >>the >>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>general >>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered appropriate >>for this email list. >> >>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>personal >>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>would >>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >>than in a public email list. >> >>Respectfully, >>Elizabeth >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------- >>From: "Dave Webster" >>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >> > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >> > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >> > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >> > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >> > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >> > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >> > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >> > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells >> > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so >> > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >> > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >> > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >> > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. >> > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >> > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >> > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >> > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would >> > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I >> > guess it was just really really hard for her. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >> > Shelton >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >> > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >> > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the >> > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance >> > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and >> > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would >> > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go >> > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find >> > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room >> > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local >> > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the >> > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and >> > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >> > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every >> > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's >> > a lot better than every few months. >> > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >> > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >> > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >> > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >> > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >> > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >> > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >> > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not >> > a personality trait or something that really is important in a >> > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >> > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >> > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >> > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >> > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >> > because they were priviledges for both of us. >> > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >> > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >> > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >> > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >> > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >> > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >> > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't >> > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >> > willing to make things work. >> > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >> > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >> > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >> > or between classes. >> > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >> > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >> > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >> > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >> > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as >> > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >> > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >> > circumstances. Kudos! >> > >> > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >> >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >> >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >> >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >> >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >> >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >> >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >> >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >> >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >> >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >> >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >> >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >> >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >> >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >> >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >> >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >> >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >> >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >> >> hypocritical. >> >> >> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >> >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >> >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >> >>> the relationship. >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Koby Cox" > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >>> > >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> Sophie, >> >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >> >>> relation ship? >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Koby. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >> >>> Trist >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >> >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >> >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >> >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >> >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >> >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >> >>> >> >>> Sincerely, >> >>> Sophie >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: Sarah > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> >>> list> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >> >>> they never work. >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Dave Webster" > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >>> > >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >> >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >> >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >> >>> lot of crying spells. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >> >>> G >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> Hi, >> >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >> >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >> >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >> >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >> >>> mind off things. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Dave Webster" > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >> >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >> >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >> >>> post it anyhow. >> >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >> >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >> >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >> >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >> >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan >> >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >> >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >> >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >> >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >> >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >> >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about >> >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >> >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said >> >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >> >>> to see this guy in Colorado. >> >>> Mind >> >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >> >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >> >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >> >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >> >>> of crying spells. >> >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >> >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >> >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >> >>> Loosing my >> >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >> >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >> >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >> >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >> >>> Maybe >> >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >> >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >> >>> them. >> >>> My >> >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >> >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >> >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> >>> %40gm >> >>> ail.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >> >>> 0gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> >>> %40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>> r%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> >>> il.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>> r%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> > ail.co >> > m >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> > 40gmai >> > l.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kaiti >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai >> > l.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai >> > l.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net Mon Feb 18 17:39:04 2013 From: devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51226738.5010807@pcdesk.net> Steve, I'll address both points. First, price. If you consider the number of pages you get from a toner cartridge for a laser printer vs that of an ink cartridge for an ink jet printer, here's what you find. the toner might cost a bit more, but the number of pages per sheet is much lower. for ink jet, it is typically 10 to 20 cents per page, where as for laser you can get it to where it's less than a penny per page if you have a high yield toner cartridge and you can get it at a good price. Even if you end up with 2 to 5 cents per page, however, which is also not uncommon, you still end up getting a better price for toner than for ink. As for the quality, where ink jet is sometimes better is when you are printing color photos. I think a lot of that opinion comes from the fact that a color laser costs quite a bit more than a color ink jet. If you use a laser comparable in price to a color ink jet, it's almost certainly a black and white printer. Laser printers also have the problem that you can't put normal transparencies and such through them because of the heat; you need special laser printing ones. I'm not sure how high end color laser printers and high end ink jets compare when printing photos. Standard printings, like research papers and such are almost always better looking with laser. Joe From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Feb 18 17:53:50 2013 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:53:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: <51226738.5010807@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Joe, I was not certain if you were trying to convince me, so I wanted to make clear that we agree. Thank you for supplying the details. Also color lasers have come down greatly in price over the past few years even though they are still more expensive than color ink-jets. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:04 -0700, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: >Steve, >I'll address both points. >First, price. If you consider the number of pages you get from a toner >cartridge for a laser printer vs that of an ink cartridge for an ink jet >printer, here's what you find. the toner might cost a bit more, but the >number of pages per sheet is much lower. for ink jet, it is typically 10 >to 20 cents per page, where as for laser you can get it to where it's >less than a penny per page if you have a high yield toner cartridge and >you can get it at a good price. Even if you end up with 2 to 5 cents per >page, however, which is also not uncommon, you still end up getting a >better price for toner than for ink. >As for the quality, where ink jet is sometimes better is when you are >printing color photos. I think a lot of that opinion comes from the fact >that a color laser costs quite a bit more than a color ink jet. If you >use a laser comparable in price to a color ink jet, it's almost >certainly a black and white printer. Laser printers also have the >problem that you can't put normal transparencies and such through them >because of the heat; you need special laser printing ones. I'm not sure >how high end color laser printers and high end ink jets compare when >printing photos. Standard printings, like research papers and such are >almost always better looking with laser. >Joe >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 19:15:39 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:15:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Carly, I completely agree with you, and I thank you for backing me up and understanding what I was getting at. On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, List, > > Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>Hello Desiree and List, >> >>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is >>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. >> >>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through >>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there >>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than >>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >> >>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other >>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific >>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide >>some resources. >> >>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be >>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar >>disorder as well. >> >>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>the future. >> >>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >> community. >> >>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing >>them with the whole entire world. >> >>Respectfully, >>Elizabeth >> >>-------------------------------------------------- >>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>>hi Elizabeth, >>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >>>and permanent backlash. >>> >>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>Hello David, >>>> >>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>> not >>>> >>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>> >>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>> This >>>> >>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >>>> to >>>> >>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>> such >>>> >>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>> >>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>> are >>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>> how >>>> >>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >>>> the >>>> >>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>> general >>>> >>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>> appropriate >>>>for this email list. >>>> >>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>> personal >>>> >>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>> would >>>> >>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>> rather >>>>than in a public email list. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>> actually >>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>>>> really >>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>>>> there >>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>>>beginning >>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>>>>think >>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>>>suffer >>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>>>>past >>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>>> crying >>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>>>were >>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>>relationship >>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>> Some >>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>>>didn't >>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did tell >>>>>me >>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>>>started >>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>>>>egg >>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family and >>>>>I'd >>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>Shelton >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>>program >>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>>>before >>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>>>> were >>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it >>>>>work >>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>>>even >>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our >>>>> blind >>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>>>>with >>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>>finished >>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>>>university >>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me >>>>>and >>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>>>>other >>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>with >>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>>>than >>>>>every few months. >>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>> with >>>>>the >>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>>>skills, >>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>>>>other >>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>>>sighted >>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness >>>>> is >>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>>>important >>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, >>>>> or >>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>>strengthen >>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>> appreciated >>>>>the >>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>>>priviledges >>>>>for both of us. >>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>restrictions, >>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>>>always >>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>>>seeing >>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>>>>keep >>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>>>> really >>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>> really >>>>>willing to make things work. >>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>> keep >>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>>>where >>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>>>classes. >>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>>>plane >>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>>>distance >>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>>>works >>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>>>school >>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and >>>>> make >>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>> >>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply when >>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy I >>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>>>hypocritical. >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of the >>>>>>>relationship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls relation >>>>>>>ship? >>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>>>Trist >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>list>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>>>>they never work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>>>mind off things. >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>> bipolar >>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>>>anyhow. >>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at the >>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but we >>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy >>>>>>>in Colorado. >>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>>them. >>>>>>>My >>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>>> may >>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't good >>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>>>m >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>>>l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Kaiti >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 19:25:02 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:25:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi, I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > I agree > David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > adds something to the support David is looking for. > I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > Ari > > On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good morning, List, >> >> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>Hello Desiree and List, >>> >>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is >>>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. >>> >>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through >>>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there >>>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than >>>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >>> >>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other >>>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific >>>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide >>>some resources. >>> >>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be >>>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar >>>disorder as well. >>> >>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>the future. >>> >>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>> community. >>> >>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing >>>them with the whole entire world. >>> >>>Respectfully, >>>Elizabeth >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >>>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >>>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >>>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >>>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >>>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >>>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >>>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >>>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >>>>and permanent backlash. >>>> >>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>Hello David, >>>>> >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>>> not >>>>> >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>>> >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>> This >>>>> >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>> subscribed >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>>> such >>>>> >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>> >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>>> are >>>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>>> how >>>>> >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates >>>>> to >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>> general >>>>> >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>> specific >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>> appropriate >>>>>for this email list. >>>>> >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>> personal >>>>> >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>>> would >>>>> >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>> rather >>>>>than in a public email list. >>>>> >>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>> actually >>>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>>>>> really >>>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>>>>> there >>>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>>>>beginning >>>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't >>>>>>think >>>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>>>>suffer >>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma >>>>>>past >>>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>>>> crying >>>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>>>>were >>>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>>>relationship >>>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>> Some >>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>>>>didn't >>>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did >>>>>> tell >>>>>>me >>>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>>>>started >>>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the >>>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on >>>>>>egg >>>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family >>>>>> and >>>>>>I'd >>>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>>>program >>>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>>>>before >>>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>>>>> were >>>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made >>>>>> it >>>>>>work >>>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>>>>even >>>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our >>>>>> blind >>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory >>>>>>with >>>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>>>finished >>>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>>>>university >>>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from >>>>>> me >>>>>>and >>>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>>>>>other >>>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>with >>>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>>>>than >>>>>>every few months. >>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>>> with >>>>>>the >>>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>>>>skills, >>>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of >>>>>>other >>>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>>>>sighted >>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness >>>>>> is >>>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>>>>important >>>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, >>>>>> or >>>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>>>strengthen >>>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>the >>>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>>>>priviledges >>>>>>for both of us. >>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>restrictions, >>>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>>>>always >>>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>>>>seeing >>>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd >>>>>>keep >>>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>>>>> really >>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>> really >>>>>>willing to make things work. >>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>>> keep >>>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>>>>where >>>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>>>>classes. >>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>>>>plane >>>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>>>>distance >>>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>>>>works >>>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>>>>school >>>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and >>>>>> make >>>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the >>>>>> practical >>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>>>>>> when >>>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how >>>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>>>>hypocritical. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>relationship. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>> relation >>>>>>>>ship? >>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>>>>Trist >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>>>>>>>they never work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>>>>>> G >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>>>>mind off things. >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>> bipolar >>>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>>>>anyhow. >>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>> whare >>>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see >>>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this >>>>>>>> guy >>>>>>>>in Colorado. >>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>>>them. >>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>>>>m >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>>>>l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 19:36:02 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:36:02 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Yes, you have said it much better than I could. When you go to a sighted psychologist you get the feeling they're not sure what to tell you, or they just parrot what you say back at you. There really should be some sort of place where personal things can be discussed like that, and where the blind people giving the advice aren't judgmental especially if their situations are totally different than yours. On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing > personal and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not > necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often > than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I > went to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they > would probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the > easiest thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a > car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. > I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or > Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the > ones who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being > an adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in > this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, > not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they > be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would > like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through > something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame > it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far > into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire > a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these > problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > > On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >> I agree >> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list >> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact >> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are >> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor >> adds something to the support David is looking for. >> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers >> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular >> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness >> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific >> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. >> Ari >> >> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Good morning, List, >>> >>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>Hello Desiree and List, >>>> >>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is >>>>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private >>>> lives. >>>> >>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through >>>>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there >>>>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than >>>>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind >>>> students. >>>> >>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other >>>>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific >>>>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide >>>>some resources. >>>> >>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be >>>>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar >>>>disorder as well. >>>> >>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>>the future. >>>> >>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>>> community. >>>> >>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing >>>>them with the whole entire world. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's >>>>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about >>>>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell >>>>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no >>>>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I >>>>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how >>>>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their >>>>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of >>>>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that >>>>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job >>>>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list >>>>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel >>>>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out >>>>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a >>>>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you >>>>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was >>>>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate >>>>>and permanent backlash. >>>>> >>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>>Hello David, >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I >>>>>> am >>>>>> not >>>>>> >>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>>> This >>>>>> >>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>> subscribed >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>>>> the >>>>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>>>> such >>>>>> >>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>>>> are >>>>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to >>>>>> see >>>>>> how >>>>>> >>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates >>>>>> to >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>> general >>>>>> >>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>>> specific >>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>>> appropriate >>>>>>for this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>> personal >>>>>> >>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>>>> would >>>>>> >>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>> rather >>>>>>than in a public email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>>Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to >>>>>>> really >>>>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the >>>>>>>beginning >>>>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she >>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>think >>>>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I >>>>>>>suffer >>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My >>>>>>> grandma >>>>>>>past >>>>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the >>>>>>> crying >>>>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells >>>>>>>were >>>>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>>>>relationship >>>>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>>> Some >>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she >>>>>>>didn't >>>>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>me >>>>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she >>>>>>>started >>>>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was >>>>>>> on >>>>>>>egg >>>>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>I'd >>>>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>>>>program >>>>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer >>>>>>>before >>>>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We >>>>>>> were >>>>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>work >>>>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he >>>>>>>even >>>>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar >>>>>>> territory >>>>>>>with >>>>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he >>>>>>>finished >>>>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a >>>>>>>university >>>>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from >>>>>>> me >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see >>>>>>> each >>>>>>>other >>>>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>>with >>>>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better >>>>>>>than >>>>>>>every few months. >>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to >>>>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication >>>>>>>skills, >>>>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>other >>>>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into >>>>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than >>>>>>>sighted >>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is >>>>>>>important >>>>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are >>>>>>> bad, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>>>>strengthen >>>>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were >>>>>>>priviledges >>>>>>>for both of us. >>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>>restrictions, >>>>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It >>>>>>>always >>>>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not >>>>>>>seeing >>>>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if >>>>>>> they'd >>>>>>>keep >>>>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to >>>>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they >>>>>>> really >>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>>> really >>>>>>>willing to make things work. >>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>>>> keep >>>>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college >>>>>>>where >>>>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between >>>>>>>classes. >>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>>>>>plane >>>>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long >>>>>>>distance >>>>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything >>>>>>>works >>>>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and >>>>>>>school >>>>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and >>>>>>> make >>>>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the >>>>>>> practical >>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional >>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>>>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications >>>>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>>>>>>>hypocritical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>relationship. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>>> relation >>>>>>>>>ship? >>>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>>>>>>>Trist >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few >>>>>>>>> bad >>>>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>>>> ones >>>>>>>>>they never work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>>>>>>> G >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>>>> guy >>>>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>>>>>>mind off things. >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>>> bipolar >>>>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that >>>>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it >>>>>>>>>anyhow. >>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>>> whare >>>>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later >>>>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to >>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and >>>>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It >>>>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the >>>>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears >>>>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well >>>>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few >>>>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some >>>>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't >>>>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this >>>>>>>>> guy >>>>>>>>>in Colorado. >>>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>>>>>>>of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>>>>>>them. >>>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >>>>>>>m >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai >>>>>>>l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 19:40:02 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:40:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Elizabeth, You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I understand where you're coming from. You see this list as a place to make professional connections and nothing more. I think your intentions are good, but I'm going to point out one small flaw in your argument. You said that people wouldn't go around discussing their personal problems in the mall. Obviously, you've never heard people walking around, belting out their problems into a cell phone for all to hear, heedless of who's around. They do it on the bus, in the mall, wherever. Now, granted, the average person isn't going to remember who said what while they're doing their shopping or trying to go from point A to point B themselves, but there is a chance, however slim, that the person who's giving a symposium about the intimate details of their life will just happen to bump into the person who gave her a job interview yesterday. That, in turn, could slant the employer's decision on whether to hire the person or not. Unlikely? Absolutely, but that's my point here: the likelihood that a future employer will stumble across this thread and decide not to hire Dave or you or me just because what we may or may not have said is, frankly, pretty slim. It could happen, but it's no reason to start writing us all off now because we participated in an unprofessional display of emotion. I am in no way, shape or form saying that this list should turn into a forum for those suffering from mental illness. This list has a defined purpose, and it's serving it quite well. I'm simply pointing out that on the rare occasions such topics do come up, we might do well not to engage in arguing back and forth over whether or not it's acceptable to break protocol, because, quite frankly, people do it all the time in the real world as well. On 2/18/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello Carly and All, > > I never once said that it was not okay for David to be human and express his > > emotions. I simply questioned whether or not this email list was the most > appropriate place to do it. > > As I understand it, David appears to be going through a period of personal > grieve and loss in his life. I would hate to see someone take advantage of > his situation, and cause more hurt and pain in his life. > > Think about it this way. Would you be willing to disclose this same personal > > information in a room full of strangers that you do not know such as in a > large shopping mall or in front of a class full of students? If the answer > is no, then perhaps the information you wish to share does not belong on a > public email list. > > Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but these are just my thoughts. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Carly Mihalakis" > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Good morning, Elizabeth, >> >> You don't think Dave fully weighed the remote possibility of people >> reading about his emotional upset, prior to posting his problems, here? >> Yes, he is in a great deal of pain, but he can't be the only one to deal >> with stuff like this. So what if people see? >> Dave, shame on you for daring to have human problems! :05 PM 2/13/2013, >> Dave Webster wrote: >>>Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in >>> my >>>initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would >>>be. >>>Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get >>>support >>>for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any >>>but. >>>I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not >>> trying >>>to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out >>> there >>>particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long >>>distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so >>>much. >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth >>>Mohnke >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>Hello David, >>> >>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>not >>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>details of your personal relationship. >>> >>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>This >>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are subscribed >>> >>>to >>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>such >>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>> >>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>> are >>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>how >>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >>>the >>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>general >>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>> appropriate >>>for this email list. >>> >>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>personal >>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>would >>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails rather >>>than in a public email list. >>> >>>Respectfully, >>>Elizabeth >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>> > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >>> > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >>> > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >>> > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >>> > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >>> > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >>> > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >>> > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying spells >>> > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so >>> > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>> > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >>> > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >>> > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. >>> > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >>> > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>> > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>> > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she would >>> > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I >>> > guess it was just really really hard for her. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>> > Shelton >>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the >>> > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>> > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the >>> > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance >>> > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and >>> > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would >>> > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go >>> > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find >>> > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room >>> > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local >>> > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the >>> > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and >>> > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each >>> > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every >>> > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's >>> > a lot better than every few months. >>> > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>> > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >>> > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >>> > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >>> > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >>> > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >>> > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >>> > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, not >>> > a personality trait or something that really is important in a >>> > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >>> > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>> > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>> > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >>> > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>> > because they were priviledges for both of us. >>> > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>> > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>> > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>> > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>> > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>> > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>> > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really didn't >>> > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >>> > willing to make things work. >>> > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>> > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >>> > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >>> > or between classes. >>> > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>> > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >>> > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >>> > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >>> > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be as >>> > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >>> > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >>> > circumstances. Kudos! >>> > >>> > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>> >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic >>> >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>> >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>> >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when >>> >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>> >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other >>> >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>> >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>> >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>> >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>> >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>> >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>> >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>> >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>> >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>> >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>> >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite >>> >> hypocritical. >>> >> >>> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>> >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>> >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>> >>> the relationship. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Koby Cox" >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> >> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sophie, >>> >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>> >>> relation ship? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Koby. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>> >>> Trist >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>> >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>> >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we >>> >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad >>> >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>> >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Sophie >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Sarah >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> >>> list>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones >>> >>> they never work. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> >> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>> >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>> >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>> >>> lot of crying spells. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>> >>> G >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy >>> >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>> >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>> >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>> >>> mind off things. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>> >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>> >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>> >>> post it anyhow. >>> >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one whare >>> >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>> >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >>> >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so >>> >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan >>> >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >>> >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >>> >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >>> >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >>> >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >>> >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about >>> >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >>> >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said >>> >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >>> >>> to see this guy in Colorado. >>> >>> Mind >>> >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>> >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>> >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>> >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>> >>> of crying spells. >>> >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 and >>> >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>> >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>> >>> Loosing my >>> >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love and >>> >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>> >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as well >>> >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>> >>> Maybe >>> >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>> >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>> >>> them. >>> >>> My >>> >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>> >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't >>> >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> >>> %40gm >>> >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>> >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>> >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>> > ail.co >>> > m >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>> > 40gmai >>> > l.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Kaiti >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai >>> > l.com >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai >>> > l.com >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dwebster125 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 19:40:37 2013 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:40:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can mail and or talk off list. Let me know. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. Hi, I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > I agree > David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > adds something to the support David is looking for. > I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > Ari > > On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good morning, List, >> >> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>Hello Desiree and List, >>> >>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to >>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. >>> >>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is >>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are >>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply >>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >>> >>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local >>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines >>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some >>>resources. >>> >>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able >>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder >>>as well. >>> >>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>the future. >>> >>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>>community. >>> >>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them >>>with the whole entire world. >>> >>>Respectfully, >>>Elizabeth >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't >>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place >>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, >>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct >>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the >>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to >>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this >>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What >>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, >>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, >>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying >>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a >>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will >>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. >>>> >>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>Hello David, >>>>> >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but >>>>>I am not >>>>> >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. >>>>> >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>> This >>>>> >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>subscribed to >>>>> >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>>>>sharing such >>>>> >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>> >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but >>>>>I fail to see how >>>>> >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>>>>relates to the >>>>> >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>general >>>>> >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>>specific >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>> appropriate >>>>>for this email list. >>>>> >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>personal >>>>> >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>>>>relationship would >>>>> >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>rather than in a public email list. >>>>> >>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she >>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through >>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. >>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer >>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My >>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the >>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for >>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so >>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, >>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>> Some >>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that >>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she >>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she >>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to >>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit >>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the >>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in >>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. >>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my >>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar >>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). >>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and >>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. >>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state >>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every >>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a >>>>>>lot better than every few months. >>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to >>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it >>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, >>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long >>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree >>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>>really willing to make things work. >>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family >>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not >>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to >>>>>>dinner after or between classes. >>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you >>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things >>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every >>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so >>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, >>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal >>>>>>>>details of the relationship. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>>relation ship? >>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>Sophie Trist >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>-0800 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>>>ones they never work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>Gloria G >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool >>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope >>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just >>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. >>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted >>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. >>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then >>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live >>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple >>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn >>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. >>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a >>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she >>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. >>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in >>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either >>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were >>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any >>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going >>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was >>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of >>>>>>>>the tenth. >>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could >>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to >>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental >>>>>>>>illnesses. >>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help >>>>>>>>through them. >>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like >>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel >>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really >>>>>>>>hurt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave >>>>>>>>s >>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% >>>>>>>>4 >>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 >>>>>>>>2 >>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm >>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>>>40gmail.co >>>>>>m >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet >>>>>>104%40gmai >>>>>>l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 >>>>>>gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho >>>>>>tmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>0gmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm >>>>ail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >>>t.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 20:54:39 2013 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:54:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Message-ID: Hello all, I've been kind of watching this thing play out from a distance and I really think I can respect basically all of the positions people have taken here. Desiree, in today's world, it's much more likely that potential employers will do a google search for a likely job candidate's name and see what comes up than...well, than ever in human history. I think it's standard procedure for lots of companies to do precisely that, if I'm not mistaken. It's not quite like hearing some random person confessing their life full of sin and misery in a shopping mall and realizing that, much to your chagrin, that's the person you were thinking about hiring. Lots of companies will deliberately do searches on the internet for specific job aplicants and see what comes up. So it's very possible, even slightly likely, this could be seen. On the other hand, I know what it's like to feel as though you have absolutely nowhere to turn and you just need someone, anyone, who might possibly understand. If you're honestly at that point, as I have been before, I think it's fair to legitimately throw protocol out the window if you really feel like there's nowhere else to turn which, by the way, is probably not true but, believe me, it feels like it can be. I don't judge, farbeit from me to condemn when I've been in similar situations (although I handled them slightly differently), but I thinkn it's just very important to be aware that, if people are deliberately looking for information about you on the internet, this stuff can show up pretty high in the search results. I've searched for myself on the internet and seen all sorts of things...if I'd had a mind to do a bit more digging, (as a rapidly growing number of employers do), I'm sure I'd be kind of embarrassed by some of the things I'd find...but, if you're aware, and you understand that there is a strong possibility that what you write here will be read later, I can't fault you for deciding to open up like this if you feel like there's nowhere else to go. David, I know how real and powerful depression is because it's a condition with which I'm all too familiar. Feel free to write me off-list, any time, if you need someone to talk to. Best regards, Kirt On 2/18/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can mail > and or talk off list. Let me know. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal and > emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that > the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is > another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor > about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that I > need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the average > sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, > it's not that simple. > I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or > Paratransit > service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide > that, > despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of my > greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would > probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, either." > They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't > experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow > blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they could > tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, because, > without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I > can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to > with > these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > > On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >> I agree >> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list >> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact >> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are >> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor >> adds something to the support David is looking for. >> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers >> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular >> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness >> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific >> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. >> Ari >> >> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Good morning, List, >>> >>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>Hello Desiree and List, >>>> >>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to >>>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private >>>> lives. >>>> >>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is >>>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are >>>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply >>>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >>>> >>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local >>>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines >>>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some >>>>resources. >>>> >>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able >>>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder >>>>as well. >>>> >>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>>the future. >>>> >>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>>>community. >>>> >>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them >>>>with the whole entire world. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >>>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >>>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't >>>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place >>>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, >>>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >>>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >>>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct >>>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the >>>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to >>>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this >>>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What >>>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, >>>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, >>>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying >>>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a >>>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will >>>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. >>>>> >>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>>Hello David, >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but >>>>>>I am not >>>>>> >>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>>> This >>>>>> >>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>>subscribed to >>>>>> >>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>>>>>sharing such >>>>>> >>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but >>>>>>I fail to see how >>>>>> >>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>>>>>relates to the >>>>>> >>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>>general >>>>>> >>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>>>specific >>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>>> appropriate >>>>>>for this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>>personal >>>>>> >>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>>>>>relationship would >>>>>> >>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>>rather than in a public email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>>Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she >>>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through >>>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. >>>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer >>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My >>>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the >>>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for >>>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so >>>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, >>>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>>> Some >>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that >>>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she >>>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she >>>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to >>>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit >>>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the >>>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in >>>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. >>>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my >>>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar >>>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). >>>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and >>>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. >>>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state >>>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every >>>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a >>>>>>>lot better than every few months. >>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to >>>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it >>>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, >>>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long >>>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree >>>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>>>really willing to make things work. >>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family >>>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not >>>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to >>>>>>>dinner after or between classes. >>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you >>>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things >>>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every >>>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so >>>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, >>>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal >>>>>>>>>details of the relationship. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>>>relation ship? >>>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>Sophie Trist >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>-0800 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>>>>ones they never work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>Gloria G >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool >>>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope >>>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just >>>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. >>>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted >>>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. >>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then >>>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live >>>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple >>>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn >>>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. >>>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a >>>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she >>>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >>>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. >>>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in >>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either >>>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were >>>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any >>>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was >>>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of >>>>>>>>>the tenth. >>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could >>>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to >>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental >>>>>>>>>illnesses. >>>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help >>>>>>>>>through them. >>>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like >>>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel >>>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really >>>>>>>>>hurt. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave >>>>>>>>>s >>>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% >>>>>>>>>4 >>>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 >>>>>>>>>2 >>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm >>>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>>>>40gmail.co >>>>>>>m >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet >>>>>>>104%40gmai >>>>>>>l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 >>>>>>>gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho >>>>>>>tmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm >>>>>ail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >>>>t.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 20:54:49 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:54:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Message-ID: Carlie, I agree that accepting other people is important, blind or sighted, and that the start of this thread I saw the topic as being totally appropriate for the list because relationships are a hot topic for students, and we as blind students have some unique challenges including transportation and the above average tendency to enter into text-based or long distance relationships with other people. But, being a psych student myself I see Arielle and Elizabeth's points too. I think as far as the relationship stuff goes we should be supportive as you have said, but there are some other, more complex, issues here wich no one on this list would be able to help with because we're not able to act as a psychologist. (I know we have psych students, even upper-level ones, but it would be extremely difficult to provide help without the capability to act as a therapist). It's not that Elizabeth or anyone else tried to push Dave away, it was more suggesting that he should seek out other sources of help for these other issues at work rather than airing everything out in a place where not al aspects of the conversation are necessarily appropriate. Hope this makes more sense. On 2/18/13, Dave Webster wrote: > Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can mail > and or talk off list. Let me know. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > Hi, > I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal and > emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that > the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is > another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor > about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that I > need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the average > sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, > it's not that simple. > I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or > Paratransit > service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide > that, > despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of my > greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would > probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, either." > They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't > experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow > blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they could > tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, because, > without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I > can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to > with > these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > > On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >> I agree >> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list >> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact >> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are >> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor >> adds something to the support David is looking for. >> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers >> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular >> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness >> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific >> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. >> Ari >> >> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Good morning, List, >>> >>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>Hello Desiree and List, >>>> >>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to >>>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private >>>> lives. >>>> >>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is >>>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are >>>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply >>>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >>>> >>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local >>>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines >>>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some >>>>resources. >>>> >>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able >>>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder >>>>as well. >>>> >>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>>the future. >>>> >>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>>>community. >>>> >>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them >>>>with the whole entire world. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >>>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >>>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't >>>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place >>>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, >>>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >>>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >>>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct >>>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the >>>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to >>>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this >>>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What >>>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, >>>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, >>>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying >>>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a >>>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will >>>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. >>>>> >>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>>Hello David, >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but >>>>>>I am not >>>>>> >>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>>> This >>>>>> >>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>>subscribed to >>>>>> >>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>>>>>sharing such >>>>>> >>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but >>>>>>I fail to see how >>>>>> >>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>>>>>relates to the >>>>>> >>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>>general >>>>>> >>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>>>specific >>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>>> appropriate >>>>>>for this email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>>personal >>>>>> >>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>>>>>relationship would >>>>>> >>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>>rather than in a public email list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>>Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she >>>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through >>>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. >>>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer >>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My >>>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the >>>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for >>>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so >>>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, >>>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>>> Some >>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that >>>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she >>>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she >>>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to >>>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit >>>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the >>>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in >>>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. >>>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my >>>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar >>>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). >>>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and >>>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. >>>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state >>>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every >>>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a >>>>>>>lot better than every few months. >>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to >>>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it >>>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, >>>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long >>>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree >>>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>>>really willing to make things work. >>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family >>>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not >>>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to >>>>>>>dinner after or between classes. >>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you >>>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things >>>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every >>>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so >>>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, >>>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal >>>>>>>>>details of the relationship. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>>>relation ship? >>>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>Sophie Trist >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>-0800 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>>>>ones they never work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>Gloria G >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool >>>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope >>>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just >>>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. >>>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted >>>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. >>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then >>>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live >>>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple >>>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn >>>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. >>>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a >>>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she >>>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >>>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. >>>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in >>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either >>>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were >>>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any >>>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was >>>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of >>>>>>>>>the tenth. >>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could >>>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to >>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental >>>>>>>>>illnesses. >>>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help >>>>>>>>>through them. >>>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like >>>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel >>>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really >>>>>>>>>hurt. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave >>>>>>>>>s >>>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% >>>>>>>>>4 >>>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 >>>>>>>>>2 >>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm >>>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>>>>40gmail.co >>>>>>>m >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet >>>>>>>104%40gmai >>>>>>>l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 >>>>>>>gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho >>>>>>>tmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm >>>>>ail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >>>>t.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:17:21 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:17:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Message-ID: Hi Kurt, You're right, and I wasn't trying to minimize the fact that employers do try to get a sense of what their potential employees will be like by doing google searches. But, in my opinion, everyone has skeletons in their closets, and, as long as you're not promoting anything illegal or immoral through your online presence, if you're not hired for expressing yourself, I can't say it would be any great loss. The irony is, of course, that I'm saying this, knowing full well that an employer just might see it and dismiss my attitude as flippant, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. On 2/18/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Hello all, > I've been kind of watching this thing play out from a distance and I > really think I can respect basically all of the positions people have > taken here. > Desiree, in today's world, it's much more likely that potential > employers will do a google search for a likely job candidate's name > and see what comes up than...well, than ever in human history. I > think it's standard procedure for lots of companies to do precisely > that, if I'm not mistaken. It's not quite like hearing some random > person confessing their life full of sin and misery in a shopping mall > and realizing that, much to your chagrin, that's the person you were > thinking about hiring. Lots of companies will deliberately do > searches on the internet for specific job aplicants and see what comes > up. So it's very possible, even slightly likely, this could be seen. > On the other hand, I know what it's like to feel as though you have > absolutely nowhere to turn and you just need someone, anyone, who > might possibly understand. If you're honestly at that point, as I > have been before, I think it's fair to legitimately throw protocol out > the window if you really feel like there's nowhere else to turn which, > by the way, is probably not true but, believe me, it feels like it can > be. I don't judge, farbeit from me to condemn when I've been in > similar situations (although I handled them slightly differently), but > I thinkn it's just very important to be aware that, if people are > deliberately looking for information about you on the internet, this > stuff can show up pretty high in the search results. I've searched > for myself on the internet and seen all sorts of things...if I'd had a > mind to do a bit more digging, (as a rapidly growing number of > employers do), I'm sure I'd be kind of embarrassed by some of the > things I'd find...but, if you're aware, and you understand that there > is a strong possibility that what you write here will be read later, I > can't fault you for deciding to open up like this if you feel like > there's nowhere else to go. > David, I know how real and powerful depression is because it's a > condition with which I'm all too familiar. Feel free to write me > off-list, any time, if you need someone to talk to. > Best regards, > Kirt > > On 2/18/13, Dave Webster wrote: >> Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can >> mail >> and or talk off list. Let me know. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >> Hi, >> I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal >> and >> emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that >> the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is >> another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor >> about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that >> I >> need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the >> average >> sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, >> it's not that simple. >> I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or >> Paratransit >> service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide >> that, >> despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of >> my >> greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would >> probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, >> either." >> They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't >> experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow >> blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they >> could >> tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, >> because, >> without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I >> can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to >> with >> these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. >> >> On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: >>> I agree >>> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list >>> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact >>> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are >>> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor >>> adds something to the support David is looking for. >>> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers >>> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular >>> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness >>> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific >>> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. >>> Ari >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>> Good morning, List, >>>> >>>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to >>>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for >>>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, >>>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits >>>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of >>>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind >>>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. >>>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List >>>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? >>>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM >>>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>Hello Desiree and List, >>>>> >>>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. >>>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to >>>>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most >>>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe >>>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of >>>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private >>>>> lives. >>>>> >>>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is >>>>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are >>>>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply >>>>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. >>>>> >>>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support >>>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local >>>>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines >>>>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some >>>>>resources. >>>>> >>>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, >>>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local >>>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able >>>>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder >>>>>as well. >>>>> >>>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic >>>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number >>>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal >>>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic >>>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some >>>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem >>>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in >>>>>the future. >>>>> >>>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on >>>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which >>>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from >>>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the >>>>>community. >>>>> >>>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy >>>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them >>>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them >>>>>with the whole entire world. >>>>> >>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>>hi Elizabeth, >>>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to >>>>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things >>>>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. >>>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the >>>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped >>>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't >>>>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place >>>>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, >>>>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and >>>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a >>>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen >>>>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating >>>>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct >>>>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the >>>>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to >>>>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this >>>>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What >>>>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, >>>>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, >>>>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying >>>>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a >>>>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will >>>>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>>>>>>Hello David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but >>>>>>>I am not >>>>>>> >>>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the >>>>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public >>>>>>> archive. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> >>>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>>>subscribed to >>>>>>> >>>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to >>>>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about >>>>>>>sharing such >>>>>>> >>>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters >>>>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but >>>>>>>I fail to see how >>>>>>> >>>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship >>>>>>>relates to the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>>>general >>>>>>> >>>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>>>>specific >>>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>>>> appropriate >>>>>>>for this email list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>>>personal >>>>>>> >>>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal >>>>>>>relationship would >>>>>>> >>>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>>>rather than in a public email list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>>>Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. >>>>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told >>>>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she >>>>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through >>>>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. >>>>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer >>>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My >>>>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the >>>>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for >>>>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so >>>>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, >>>>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. >>>>>>>> Some >>>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that >>>>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she >>>>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she >>>>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>>>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to >>>>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>>>>>Shelton >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer >>>>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit >>>>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the >>>>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in >>>>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. >>>>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my >>>>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind >>>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar >>>>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). >>>>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and >>>>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. >>>>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state >>>>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every >>>>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but >>>>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a >>>>>>>>lot better than every few months. >>>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to >>>>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it >>>>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, >>>>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long >>>>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree >>>>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based >>>>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted >>>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise >>>>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something >>>>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long >>>>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. >>>>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and >>>>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the >>>>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and >>>>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were >>>>>>>>really willing to make things work. >>>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family >>>>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not >>>>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to >>>>>>>>dinner after or between classes. >>>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the >>>>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short >>>>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen >>>>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you >>>>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things >>>>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical >>>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance >>>>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a >>>>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for >>>>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was >>>>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, >>>>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. >>>>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any >>>>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they >>>>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly >>>>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely >>>>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never >>>>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every >>>>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so >>>>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, >>>>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being >>>>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, >>>>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he >>>>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, >>>>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal >>>>>>>>>>details of the relationship. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sophie, >>>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>>>>>>>relation ship? >>>>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>Koby. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>Sophie Trist >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives >>>>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just >>>>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other >>>>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's >>>>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate >>>>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for >> everyone; it just takes time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>Sophie >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>>-0800 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>>>>>>>ones they never work. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually >>>>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not >>>>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been >>>>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>Gloria G >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool >>>>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope >>>>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just >>>>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. >>>>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted >>>>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. >>>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started >>>>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We >>>>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. >>>>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come >>>>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then >>>>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live >>>>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple >>>>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn >>>>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. >>>>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a >>>>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she >>>>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms >>>>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. >>>>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in >>>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>>>Mind >>>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either >>>>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were >>>>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any >>>>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going >>>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. >>>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was >>>>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of >>>>>>>>>>the tenth. >>>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>>>>>>>Loosing my >>>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could >>>>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to >>>>>>>>>>Colorado. >>>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental >>>>>>>>>>illnesses. >>>>>>>>>>Maybe >>>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help >>>>>>>>>>through them. >>>>>>>>>>My >>>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like >>>>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel >>>>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really >>>>>>>>>>hurt. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave >>>>>>>>>>s >>>>>>>>>>%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% >>>>>>>>>>4 >>>>>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 >>>>>>>>>>2 >>>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm >>>>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>>il.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead >>>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>>>>>40gmail.co >>>>>>>>m >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet >>>>>>>>104%40gmai >>>>>>>>l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>Kaiti >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 >>>>>>>>gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho >>>>>>>>tmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>>>0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm >>>>>>ail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >>>>>t.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:22:34 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:22:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com><000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com><000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com><7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello Desiree , yes, I suppose we will have to disagree to disagree. However, I am not entirely sure that I am being completely understood. Your message brings up the point of people talking about personal issues on there cell phones wile walking around in public places. I personally do not understand why anyone would want the whole world to know about their personal life, and thus ,I do not believe people should be walking around in public talking about their personal lives for everyone to hear either. it is really not about being professional verses unprofessional. I just happen to believe in the use of discretion when conversing with others. What may be appropriate for a discussion among close friends may not necessarily be appropriate when giving a speech in front of a class. However, what we do seem to agree on is that this list should not turn into a forum for those suffering from mental illness. This was the main reason why I questioned whether or not such a detailed account of one's personal life would be appropriate for this list. While I understand students deal with these issues from time to time, I feel as though a general group of blind students may not necessarily have the expertise to provide the kind of help that may be needed for this kind of situation. Respectfully, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Desiree Oudinot" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:40 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > Hi Elizabeth, > You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I understand > where you're coming from. You see this list as a place to make > professional connections and nothing more. I think your intentions are > good, but I'm going to point out one small flaw in your argument. You > said that people wouldn't go around discussing their personal problems > in the mall. Obviously, you've never heard people walking around, > belting out their problems into a cell phone for all to hear, heedless > of who's around. They do it on the bus, in the mall, wherever. Now, > granted, the average person isn't going to remember who said what > while they're doing their shopping or trying to go from point A to > point B themselves, but there is a chance, however slim, that the > person who's giving a symposium about the intimate details of their > life will just happen to bump into the person who gave her a job > interview yesterday. That, in turn, could slant the employer's > decision on whether to hire the person or not. Unlikely? Absolutely, > but that's my point here: the likelihood that a future employer will > stumble across this thread and decide not to hire Dave or you or me > just because what we may or may not have said is, frankly, pretty > slim. It could happen, but it's no reason to start writing us all off > now because we participated in an unprofessional display of emotion. > I am in no way, shape or form saying that this list should turn into a > forum for those suffering from mental illness. This list has a defined > purpose, and it's serving it quite well. I'm simply pointing out that > on the rare occasions such topics do come up, we might do well not to > engage in arguing back and forth over whether or not it's acceptable > to break protocol, because, quite frankly, people do it all the time > in the real world as well. > > On 2/18/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >> Hello Carly and All, >> >> I never once said that it was not okay for David to be human and express >> his >> >> emotions. I simply questioned whether or not this email list was the most >> appropriate place to do it. >> >> As I understand it, David appears to be going through a period of >> personal >> grieve and loss in his life. I would hate to see someone take advantage >> of >> his situation, and cause more hurt and pain in his life. >> >> Think about it this way. Would you be willing to disclose this same >> personal >> >> information in a room full of strangers that you do not know such as in a >> large shopping mall or in front of a class full of students? If the >> answer >> is no, then perhaps the information you wish to share does not belong on >> a >> public email list. >> >> Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but these are just my >> thoughts. >> >> Respectfully, >> Elizabeth >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Carly Mihalakis" >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 AM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list'" >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >> >>> Good morning, Elizabeth, >>> >>> You don't think Dave fully weighed the remote possibility of people >>> reading about his emotional upset, prior to posting his problems, here? >>> Yes, he is in a great deal of pain, but he can't be the only one to deal >>> with stuff like this. So what if people see? >>> Dave, shame on you for daring to have human problems! :05 PM 2/13/2013, >>> Dave Webster wrote: >>>>Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in >>>> my >>>>initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would >>>>be. >>>>Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get >>>>support >>>>for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any >>>>but. >>>>I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not >>>> trying >>>>to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out >>>> there >>>>particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long >>>>distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so >>>>much. >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth >>>>Mohnke >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>>Hello David, >>>> >>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>>not >>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>> >>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>This >>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>subscribed >>>> >>>>to >>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>>such >>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>> >>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>> are >>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>>how >>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates to >>>>the >>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>general >>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a specific >>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>> appropriate >>>>for this email list. >>>> >>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>personal >>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>>would >>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>rather >>>>than in a public email list. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>>> > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>> > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >>>> > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >>>> > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >>>> > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >>>> > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >>>> > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >>>> > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >>>> > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >>>> > spells >>>> > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were >>>> > so >>>> > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>> > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >>>> > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >>>> > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she >>>> > didn't. >>>> > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >>>> > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If >>>> > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>> > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>> > would >>>> > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I >>>> > guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>> > Shelton >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> > >>>> > Hi all, >>>> > >>>> > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>> > the >>>> > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>> > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the >>>> > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance >>>> > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band and >>>> > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he would >>>> > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could >>>> > go >>>> > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find >>>> > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room >>>> > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local >>>> > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the >>>> > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and >>>> > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see >>>> > each >>>> > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every >>>> > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and >>>> > it's >>>> > a lot better than every few months. >>>> > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>> > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils >>>> > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >>>> > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >>>> > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >>>> > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >>>> > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >>>> > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, >>>> > not >>>> > a personality trait or something that really is important in a >>>> > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >>>> > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>> > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>> > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >>>> > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>> > because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>> > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>> > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>> > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>> > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>> > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>> > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>> > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>> > didn't >>>> > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >>>> > willing to make things work. >>>> > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>> > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >>>> > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after >>>> > or between classes. >>>> > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly >>>> > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >>>> > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >>>> > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >>>> > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be >>>> > as >>>> > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >>>> > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering the >>>> > circumstances. Kudos! >>>> > >>>> > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>> >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional >>>> >> topic >>>> >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>> >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>> >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open >>>> >> when >>>> >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>>> >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the >>>> >> other >>>> >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>> >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>> >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>> >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>> >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>> >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>> >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>> >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy >>>> >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>>> >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>>> >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being >>>> >> quite >>>> >> hypocritical. >>>> >> >>>> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>> >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>> >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>> >>> the relationship. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Koby Cox" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> >>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Sophie, >>>> >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>> >>> relation ship? >>>> >>> Thanks, >>>> >>> Koby. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie >>>> >>> Trist >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>> >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>> >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since >>>> >>> we >>>> >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few >>>> >>> bad >>>> >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>> >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Sincerely, >>>> >>> Sophie >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: Sarah >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> >>> list>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>> >>> ones >>>> >>> they never work. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> >>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>> >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>> >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>> >>> lot of crying spells. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria >>>> >>> G >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Hi, >>>> >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>> >>> guy >>>> >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>> >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>> >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>> >>> mind off things. >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>> >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>> >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>> >>> post it anyhow. >>>> >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>> >>> whare >>>> >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>>> >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >>>> >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or >>>> >>> so >>>> >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan >>>> >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >>>> >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >>>> >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >>>> >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >>>> >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >>>> >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked >>>> >>> about >>>> >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >>>> >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she >>>> >>> said >>>> >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >>>> >>> to see this guy in Colorado. >>>> >>> Mind >>>> >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>> >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>> >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>> >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot >>>> >>> of crying spells. >>>> >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>> >>> and >>>> >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. >>>> >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>> >>> Loosing my >>>> >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>> >>> and >>>> >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>> >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>> >>> well >>>> >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>> >>> Maybe >>>> >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>> >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>> >>> them. >>>> >>> My >>>> >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>> >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>> >>> wasn't >>>> >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> >>> %40gm >>>> >>> ail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>> >>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> >>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>> >>> il.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>> > ail.co >>>> > m >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>> > 40gmai >>>> > l.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Kaiti >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai >>>> > l.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai >>>> > l.com >>>> > >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:31:16 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:31:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Message-ID: Hi all, A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain information. Does someone want to go ahead and do this? Arielle From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 21:37:32 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:37:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133442.01290a10@comcast.net> Good morning, Desiree, Very well said. If potential employers expect their employees not to be honest about their skeletons then, I say piss on 'em!! At 01:17 PM 2/18/2013, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >Hi Kurt, >You're right, and I wasn't trying to minimize the fact that employers >do try to get a sense of what their potential employees will be like >by doing google searches. But, in my opinion, everyone has skeletons >in their closets, and, as long as you're not promoting anything >illegal or immoral through your online presence, if you're not hired >for expressing yourself, I can't say it would be any great loss. The >irony is, of course, that I'm saying this, knowing full well that an >employer just might see it and dismiss my attitude as flippant, and >that doesn't bother me in the slightest. > >On 2/18/13, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've been kind of watching this thing play out from a distance and I > > really think I can respect basically all of the positions people have > > taken here. > > Desiree, in today's world, it's much more likely that potential > > employers will do a google search for a likely job candidate's name > > and see what comes up than...well, than ever in human history. I > > think it's standard procedure for lots of companies to do precisely > > that, if I'm not mistaken. It's not quite like hearing some random > > person confessing their life full of sin and misery in a shopping mall > > and realizing that, much to your chagrin, that's the person you were > > thinking about hiring. Lots of companies will deliberately do > > searches on the internet for specific job aplicants and see what comes > > up. So it's very possible, even slightly likely, this could be seen. > > On the other hand, I know what it's like to feel as though you have > > absolutely nowhere to turn and you just need someone, anyone, who > > might possibly understand. If you're honestly at that point, as I > > have been before, I think it's fair to legitimately throw protocol out > > the window if you really feel like there's nowhere else to turn which, > > by the way, is probably not true but, believe me, it feels like it can > > be. I don't judge, farbeit from me to condemn when I've been in > > similar situations (although I handled them slightly differently), but > > I thinkn it's just very important to be aware that, if people are > > deliberately looking for information about you on the internet, this > > stuff can show up pretty high in the search results. I've searched > > for myself on the internet and seen all sorts of things...if I'd had a > > mind to do a bit more digging, (as a rapidly growing number of > > employers do), I'm sure I'd be kind of embarrassed by some of the > > things I'd find...but, if you're aware, and you understand that there > > is a strong possibility that what you write here will be read later, I > > can't fault you for deciding to open up like this if you feel like > > there's nowhere else to go. > > David, I know how real and powerful depression is because it's a > > condition with which I'm all too familiar. Feel free to write me > > off-list, any time, if you need someone to talk to. > > Best regards, > > Kirt > > > > On 2/18/13, Dave Webster wrote: > >> Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can > >> mail > >> and or talk off list. Let me know. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > >> Oudinot > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> > >> Hi, > >> I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal > >> and > >> emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that > >> the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is > >> another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor > >> about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that > >> I > >> need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the > >> average > >> sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, > >> it's not that simple. > >> I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or > >> Paratransit > >> service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide > >> that, > >> despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of > >> my > >> greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would > >> probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, > >> either." > >> They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't > >> experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow > >> blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they > >> could > >> tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, > >> because, > >> without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I > >> can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to > >> with > >> these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > >> > >> On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > >>> I agree > >>> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > >>> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > >>> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > >>> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > >>> adds something to the support David is looking for. > >>> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > >>> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > >>> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > >>> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > >>> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > >>> Ari > >>> > >>> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >>>> Good morning, List, > >>>> > >>>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > >>>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > >>>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > >>>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > >>>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > >>>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > >>>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > >>>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > >>>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > >>>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > >>>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>Hello Desiree and List, > >>>>> > >>>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to > >>>>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private > >>>>> lives. > >>>>> > >>>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is > >>>>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are > >>>>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply > >>>>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >>>>> > >>>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local > >>>>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines > >>>>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some > >>>>>resources. > >>>>> > >>>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, > >>>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able > >>>>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder > >>>>>as well. > >>>>> > >>>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem > >>>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in > >>>>>the future. > >>>>> > >>>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from > >>>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the > >>>>>community. > >>>>> > >>>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them > >>>>>with the whole entire world. > >>>>> > >>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>> > >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> > >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>> > >>>>>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to > >>>>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things > >>>>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > >>>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't > >>>>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place > >>>>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, > >>>>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > >>>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > >>>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen > >>>>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating > >>>>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct > >>>>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the > >>>>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to > >>>>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this > >>>>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What > >>>>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, > >>>>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, > >>>>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying > >>>>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a > >>>>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will > >>>>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>>>Hello David, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but > >>>>>>>I am not > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the > >>>>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public > >>>>>>> archive. > >>>>>>> This > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > >>>>>>>subscribed to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to > >>>>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about > >>>>>>>sharing such > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters > >>>>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but > >>>>>>>I fail to see how > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship > >>>>>>>relates to the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > >>>>>>>general > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a > >>>>>>>specific > >>>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>>>>> appropriate > >>>>>>>for this email list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > >>>>>>>personal > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal > >>>>>>>relationship would > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > >>>>>>>rather than in a public email list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. > >>>>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told > >>>>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she > >>>>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through > >>>>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. > >>>>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer > >>>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My > >>>>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the > >>>>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for > >>>>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so > >>>>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, > >>>>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. > >>>>>>>> Some > >>>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that > >>>>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she > >>>>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she > >>>>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If > >>>>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been > >>>>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she > >>>>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to > >>>>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>>>>>>Shelton > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching > >>>>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer > >>>>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit > >>>>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the > >>>>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in > >>>>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. > >>>>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my > >>>>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind > >>>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar > >>>>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). > >>>>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and > >>>>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. > >>>>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state > >>>>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every > >>>>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but > >>>>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a > >>>>>>>>lot better than every few months. > >>>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to > >>>>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it > >>>>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, > >>>>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long > >>>>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree > >>>>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based > >>>>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted > >>>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise > >>>>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something > >>>>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long > >>>>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. > >>>>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and > >>>>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the > >>>>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > >>>>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. > >>>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > >>>>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > >>>>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > >>>>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship > >>>>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different > >>>>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really > >>>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were > >>>>>>>>really willing to make things work. > >>>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family > >>>>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not > >>>>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to > >>>>>>>>dinner after or between classes. > >>>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and > >>>>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the > >>>>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short > >>>>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen > >>>>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you > >>>>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things > >>>>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical > >>>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance > >>>>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a > >>>>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for > >>>>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was > >>>>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, > >>>>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. > >>>>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any > >>>>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they > >>>>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly > >>>>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely > >>>>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never > >>>>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every > >>>>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so > >>>>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, > >>>>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being > >>>>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, > >>>>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he > >>>>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, > >>>>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal > >>>>>>>>>>details of the relationship. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > >>>>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>>>>>>>>relation ship? > >>>>>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>>>Sophie Trist > >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives > >>>>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just > >>>>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other > >>>>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's > >>>>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate > >>>>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > >> everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>>>>list >>>>>>>>>>-0800 > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > >>>>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > >>>>>>>>>>ones they never work. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > >>>>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > >>>>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not > >>>>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been > >>>>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>>>Gloria G > >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the > >>>>>>>>>> list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > >>>>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool > >>>>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope > >>>>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just > >>>>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. > >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. > >>>>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted > >>>>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. > >>>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > >>>>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started > >>>>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We > >>>>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. > >>>>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come > >>>>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then > >>>>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live > >>>>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple > >>>>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn > >>>>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. > >>>>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a > >>>>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > >>>>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > >>>>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. > >>>>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in > >>>>>>>>>>Colorado. > >>>>>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either > >>>>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were > >>>>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any > >>>>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going > >>>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was > >>>>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of > >>>>>>>>>>the tenth. > >>>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could > >>>>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to > >>>>>>>>>>Colorado. > >>>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > >>>>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental > >>>>>>>>>>illnesses. > >>>>>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help > >>>>>>>>>>through them. > >>>>>>>>>>My > >>>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like > >>>>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel > >>>>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really > >>>>>>>>>>hurt. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave > >>>>>>>>>>s > >>>>>>>>>>%40gm > >>>>>>>>>> ail.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% > >>>>>>>>>>4 > >>>>>>>>>>0gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 > >>>>>>>>>>2 > >>>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead > >>>>>>>>>>e > >>>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm > >>>>>>>>>>a > >>>>>>>>>>il.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead > >>>>>>>>>>e > >>>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% > >>>>>>>>40gmail.co > >>>>>>>>m > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet > >>>>>>>>104%40gmai > >>>>>>>>l.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-- > >>>>>>>>Kaiti > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 > >>>>>>>>gmail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho > >>>>>>>>tmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 > >>>>>>>0gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm > >>>>>>ail.com > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas > >>>>>t.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g > >>>> mail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > >>> ail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 21:39:43 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:39:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, >A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >information. >Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Feb 18 21:48:41 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:48:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> <001801ce0e0f$d4601cd0$7d205670$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218134634.01e400d8@comcast.net> Hi, List, Have we lost all semblance of personal choice? People know what they are doing and, if they wanna take on any risk, when they are airing their skeletons, they oughta be entitled to do as much.At 12:54 PM 2/18/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >Hello all, > I've been kind of watching this thing play out from a distance and I >really think I can respect basically all of the positions people have >taken here. > Desiree, in today's world, it's much more likely that potential >employers will do a google search for a likely job candidate's name >and see what comes up than...well, than ever in human history. I >think it's standard procedure for lots of companies to do precisely >that, if I'm not mistaken. It's not quite like hearing some random >person confessing their life full of sin and misery in a shopping mall >and realizing that, much to your chagrin, that's the person you were >thinking about hiring. Lots of companies will deliberately do >searches on the internet for specific job aplicants and see what comes >up. So it's very possible, even slightly likely, this could be seen. > On the other hand, I know what it's like to feel as though you have >absolutely nowhere to turn and you just need someone, anyone, who >might possibly understand. If you're honestly at that point, as I >have been before, I think it's fair to legitimately throw protocol out >the window if you really feel like there's nowhere else to turn which, >by the way, is probably not true but, believe me, it feels like it can >be. I don't judge, farbeit from me to condemn when I've been in >similar situations (although I handled them slightly differently), but >I thinkn it's just very important to be aware that, if people are >deliberately looking for information about you on the internet, this >stuff can show up pretty high in the search results. I've searched >for myself on the internet and seen all sorts of things...if I'd had a >mind to do a bit more digging, (as a rapidly growing number of >employers do), I'm sure I'd be kind of embarrassed by some of the >things I'd find...but, if you're aware, and you understand that there >is a strong possibility that what you write here will be read later, I >can't fault you for deciding to open up like this if you feel like >there's nowhere else to go. > David, I know how real and powerful depression is because it's a >condition with which I'm all too familiar. Feel free to write me >off-list, any time, if you need someone to talk to. > Best regards, >Kirt > >On 2/18/13, Dave Webster wrote: > > Oh do you struggle with depression as well? If you want maybe we can mail > > and or talk off list. Let me know. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > > Oudinot > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > > > > Hi, > > I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal and > > emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not necessarily that > > the problems we face are different, but more often than not, there is > > another dimension to explain. For example, if I went to see a counselor > > about my depression, the first thing they would probably tell me is that I > > need to get out more. That's the easiest thing in the world for the average > > sighted person who has a car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, > > it's not that simple. > > I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or > > Paratransit > > service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones who decide > > that, > > despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an adult, this is one of my > > greatest frustrations, being controlled in this way. A counselor would > > probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, not everyone has a car, either." > > They're only human too. How can they be empathetic if they haven't > > experienced something similar? I would like the perspective of a fellow > > blind person who's gone through something similar, so that maybe they could > > tell me how they overcame it. How they moved out with no support, because, > > without going too far into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I > > can't exactly hire a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to > > with > > these problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > > > > On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > >> I agree > >> David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > >> where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > >> of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > >> mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > >> adds something to the support David is looking for. > >> I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > >> and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > >> crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > >> point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > >> crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > >> Ari > >> > >> On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >>> Good morning, List, > >>> > >>> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > >>> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > >>> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > >>> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > >>> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > >>> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > >>> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > >>> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > >>> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > >>> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > >>> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>Hello Desiree and List, > >>>> > >>>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is to > >>>>discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private > >>>> lives. > >>>> > >>>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through is > >>>>rather common among the general public. However, I believe there are > >>>>more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than simply > >>>>posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >>>> > >>>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other local > >>>>resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific hotlines > >>>>at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide some > >>>>resources. > >>>> > >>>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, > >>>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be able > >>>>to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar disorder > >>>>as well. > >>>> > >>>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>>>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem > >>>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in > >>>>the future. > >>>> > >>>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from > >>>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the > >>>>community. > >>>> > >>>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing them > >>>>with the whole entire world. > >>>> > >>>>Respectfully, > >>>>Elizabeth > >>>> > >>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> > >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>> > >>>>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to > >>>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things > >>>>>about myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > >>>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't > >>>>>tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place > >>>>>no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, > >>>>>I was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > >>>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > >>>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen > >>>>>how so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating > >>>>>their lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct > >>>>>result of suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the > >>>>>fact that everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to > >>>>>job dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this > >>>>>list isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What > >>>>>I feel needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, > >>>>>reaching out in desperation because you don't know where to turn, > >>>>>shouldn't be a cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying > >>>>>that's what you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a > >>>>>couple others did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will > >>>>>doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. > >>>>> > >>>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>>Hello David, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but > >>>>>>I am not > >>>>>> > >>>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the > >>>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > >>>>>> This > >>>>>> > >>>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > >>>>>>subscribed to > >>>>>> > >>>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to > >>>>>>the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about > >>>>>>sharing such > >>>>>> > >>>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters > >>>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but > >>>>>>I fail to see how > >>>>>> > >>>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship > >>>>>>relates to the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > >>>>>>general > >>>>>> > >>>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a > >>>>>>specific > >>>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>>>> appropriate > >>>>>>for this email list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > >>>>>>personal > >>>>>> > >>>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal > >>>>>>relationship would > >>>>>> > >>>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > >>>>>>rather than in a public email list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. > >>>>>>>I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told > >>>>>>>me. She said that there were some things about me that she > >>>>>>>thought she could handle in the beginning but when she through > >>>>>>>about it and when it actually happened she didn't think she could. > >>>>>>>One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I suffer > >>>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My > >>>>>>>grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the > >>>>>>>depression and the crying spells really started. It was hard for > >>>>>>>her because the crying spells were so intense and I would cry so > >>>>>>>hard, and I still do because this relationship didn't work out, > >>>>>>>but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. > >>>>>>> Some > >>>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that > >>>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when she > >>>>>>>finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before she > >>>>>>>told me that's when she started talking to this other person. If > >>>>>>>she would have said something in the beginning it would have been > >>>>>>>easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she > >>>>>>>would talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to > >>>>>>>cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>>>>>Shelton > >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching > >>>>>>>the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer > >>>>>>>music program we both attended several years ago. We really hit > >>>>>>>it off the summer before my senior year and made the best of the > >>>>>>>long distance situation. We were both in school and involved in > >>>>>>>clubs and band and stuff, but we made it work the best we could. > >>>>>>>On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he even came for my > >>>>>>>senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our blind > >>>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar > >>>>>>>territory with a lot of people in the room it was really fun). > >>>>>>>Last semester he finished up at his local community college and > >>>>>>>worked on transfering to a university in the same city as mine. > >>>>>>>Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and in another state > >>>>>>>our universities are pretty close and we can see each other every > >>>>>>>few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but > >>>>>>>with school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a > >>>>>>>lot better than every few months. > >>>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to > >>>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it > >>>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, > >>>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long > >>>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree > >>>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based > >>>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted > >>>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise > >>>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something > >>>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long > >>>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. > >>>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient and > >>>>>>>the other person is too it can actually strengthen the > >>>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > >>>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. > >>>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > >>>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > >>>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > >>>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship > >>>>>>>going once they and their boyfriend started going to different > >>>>>>>colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really > >>>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were > >>>>>>>really willing to make things work. > >>>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family > >>>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not > >>>>>>>like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to > >>>>>>>dinner after or between classes. > >>>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and > >>>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the > >>>>>>>goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it short > >>>>>>>distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen > >>>>>>>easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than you > >>>>>>>might as well be as happy as possible together and make things > >>>>>>>work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the practical > >>>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance > >>>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a > >>>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for > >>>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was > >>>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, ears, > >>>>>>>>and your heart and soul open when going into these situations. > >>>>>>>>then again, if people thought deeply when going into any > >>>>>>>>relationship, no matter how near or far the other person is, they > >>>>>>>>might have more success. On the other hand, being overly > >>>>>>>>analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, namely > >>>>>>>>that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, never > >>>>>>>>being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over every > >>>>>>>>possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so > >>>>>>>>I know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, > >>>>>>>>the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being > >>>>>>>>depressed, and how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, > >>>>>>>>he was on medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he > >>>>>>>>was being quite hypocritical. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, > >>>>>>>>>if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal > >>>>>>>>>details of the relationship. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>>>>>>>relation ship? > >>>>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>>Sophie Trist > >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives > >>>>>>>>>in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just > >>>>>>>>>chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other > >>>>>>>>>since we started being a couple. It's different, but it's > >>>>>>>>>feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say you hate > >>>>>>>>>relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for > > everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>>>list >>>>>>>>>-0800 > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance > >>>>>>>>>ones they never work. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > >>>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not > >>>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been > >>>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>>Gloria G > >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice > >>>>>>>>>guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool > >>>>>>>>>off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope > >>>>>>>>>you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for you just > >>>>>>>>>to get your mind off things. > >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. > >>>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted > >>>>>>>>>to post it anyhow. > >>>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > >>>>>>>>>whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started > >>>>>>>>>talking at the beginning of January right after new years. We > >>>>>>>>>didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really really well. > >>>>>>>>>About a week or so later she bought plane tickets for me to come > >>>>>>>>>out there to Michigan to see her. If I liked it out there then > >>>>>>>>>I was most likely gonna stay and be with her. Right now I live > >>>>>>>>>in a board and care facility. It turns out that for a couple > >>>>>>>>>of weeks probably when she bought the tickets or pretty soonn > >>>>>>>>>after she began having doubts and fears about the relationship. > >>>>>>>>>I had my doubts and had my fears as well and knew this was a > >>>>>>>>>normal thing. We talked about them but a few days later she > >>>>>>>>>called the relationship off because there were some symptoms > >>>>>>>>>which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't handle. > >>>>>>>>>It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in > >>>>>>>>>Colorado. > >>>>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either > >>>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were > >>>>>>>>>played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any > >>>>>>>>>of you who want to could help me through this. I've been going > >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was > >>>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of > >>>>>>>>>the tenth. > >>>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could > >>>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to > >>>>>>>>>Colorado. > >>>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > >>>>>>>>>well and she found him on a sight for people with mental > >>>>>>>>>illnesses. > >>>>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help > >>>>>>>>>through them. > >>>>>>>>>My > >>>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like > >>>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel > >>>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really > >>>>>>>>>hurt. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.grave > >>>>>>>>>s > >>>>>>>>>%40gm > >>>>>>>>> ail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125% > >>>>>>>>>4 > >>>>>>>>>0gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl9 > >>>>>>>>>2 > >>>>>>>>>%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead > >>>>>>>>>e > >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gm > >>>>>>>>>a > >>>>>>>>>il.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead > >>>>>>>>>e > >>>>>>>>>r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>>>info for > >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% > >>>>>>>40gmail.co > >>>>>>>m > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet > >>>>>>>104%40gmai > >>>>>>>l.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-- > >>>>>>>Kaiti > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40 > >>>>>>>gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>for > >>>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40ho > >>>>>>>tmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>for > >>>>>>nabs-l: > >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 > >>>>>>0gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotm > >>>>>ail.com > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas > >>>>t.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40g > >>> mail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > >> ail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From codyjbair at yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 22:11:53 2013 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:11:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access Message-ID: <1361225513.77514.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Have any of you had any luck using access with JAWS. So far it seems to be pritty inaccessible to me. Thanks, Cody From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Feb 18 22:14:40 2013 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:14:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Arielle, I think this is a good idea if there is anyone who is interested in setting it up. If the list is private then I think that would create a better place for people to be more free to discuss personal issues. I honestly do not have a problem with people discussing personal issues in general. However, as someone who is older than most people on this list who has had personal information about me on the internet used against me, I sometimes really wonder about the judgment of those who are willing to post anything and everything about them for the whole world to see. So yes, a more private email list would definitely be a good idea. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:31 PM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with otherblind folks > Hi all, > A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or > GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about > sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and > create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the > topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about > relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on > YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not > subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and > GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). > The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are > publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very > specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate > list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain > information. > Does someone want to go ahead and do this? > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > From zdreicer at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 22:16:10 2013 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:16:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access In-Reply-To: <1361225513.77514.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1361225513.77514.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm using access for a computer class right now. I am having to seek additional help from a friend that knows what she's doing! I will forward her your email, and perhaps she will be able to help you as well! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Feb 18, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Cody Bair wrote: > Hi All, > Have any of you had any luck using access with JAWS. So far it seems to be pritty inaccessible to me. > Thanks, > Cody > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 22:17:37 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:17:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <000101ce0a36$4e432ca0$eac985e0$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218074930.01d05008@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi, No, people shouldn't be running around broadcasting their personal problems to the world, but my point was that they do, and in that regard, this discussion is no worse than that. If we know that online communications are immortal, and yes, admittedly more so than something you might happen to hear on the street, it follows that, no matter where you let something slip, it could have consequences. That's my final word on the matter, I think we've pretty much beaten this subject to death enough. On 2/18/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > Hello Desiree , > > yes, I suppose we will have to disagree to disagree. However, I am not > entirely sure that I am being completely understood. > > Your message brings up the point of people talking about personal issues on > > there cell phones wile walking around in public places. I personally do not > > understand why anyone would want the whole world to know about their > personal life, and thus ,I do not believe people should be walking around in > > public talking about their personal lives for everyone to hear either. > > it is really not about being professional verses unprofessional. I just > happen to believe in the use of discretion when conversing with others. What > > may be appropriate for a discussion among close friends may not necessarily > > be appropriate when giving a speech in front of a class. > > However, what we do seem to agree on is that this list should not turn into > > a forum for those suffering from mental illness. This was the main reason > why I questioned whether or not such a detailed account of one's personal > life would be appropriate for this list. While I understand students deal > with these issues from time to time, I feel as though a general group of > blind students may not necessarily have the expertise to provide the kind of > > help that may be needed for this kind of situation. > > Respectfully, > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:40 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >> Hi Elizabeth, >> You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I understand >> where you're coming from. You see this list as a place to make >> professional connections and nothing more. I think your intentions are >> good, but I'm going to point out one small flaw in your argument. You >> said that people wouldn't go around discussing their personal problems >> in the mall. Obviously, you've never heard people walking around, >> belting out their problems into a cell phone for all to hear, heedless >> of who's around. They do it on the bus, in the mall, wherever. Now, >> granted, the average person isn't going to remember who said what >> while they're doing their shopping or trying to go from point A to >> point B themselves, but there is a chance, however slim, that the >> person who's giving a symposium about the intimate details of their >> life will just happen to bump into the person who gave her a job >> interview yesterday. That, in turn, could slant the employer's >> decision on whether to hire the person or not. Unlikely? Absolutely, >> but that's my point here: the likelihood that a future employer will >> stumble across this thread and decide not to hire Dave or you or me >> just because what we may or may not have said is, frankly, pretty >> slim. It could happen, but it's no reason to start writing us all off >> now because we participated in an unprofessional display of emotion. >> I am in no way, shape or form saying that this list should turn into a >> forum for those suffering from mental illness. This list has a defined >> purpose, and it's serving it quite well. I'm simply pointing out that >> on the rare occasions such topics do come up, we might do well not to >> engage in arguing back and forth over whether or not it's acceptable >> to break protocol, because, quite frankly, people do it all the time >> in the real world as well. >> >> On 2/18/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: >>> Hello Carly and All, >>> >>> I never once said that it was not okay for David to be human and express >>> >>> his >>> >>> emotions. I simply questioned whether or not this email list was the >>> most >>> appropriate place to do it. >>> >>> As I understand it, David appears to be going through a period of >>> personal >>> grieve and loss in his life. I would hate to see someone take advantage >>> of >>> his situation, and cause more hurt and pain in his life. >>> >>> Think about it this way. Would you be willing to disclose this same >>> personal >>> >>> information in a room full of strangers that you do not know such as in >>> a >>> large shopping mall or in front of a class full of students? If the >>> answer >>> is no, then perhaps the information you wish to share does not belong on >>> >>> a >>> public email list. >>> >>> Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but these are just my >>> thoughts. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Carly Mihalakis" >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 AM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list'" >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>> >>>> Good morning, Elizabeth, >>>> >>>> You don't think Dave fully weighed the remote possibility of people >>>> reading about his emotional upset, prior to posting his problems, here? >>>> Yes, he is in a great deal of pain, but he can't be the only one to >>>> deal >>>> with stuff like this. So what if people see? >>>> Dave, shame on you for daring to have human problems! :05 PM 2/13/2013, >>>> Dave Webster wrote: >>>>>Yea I was thinking about that when I posted to the list. That's why in >>>>> my >>>>>initial post I said I didn't know whare the best place to post it would >>>>>be. >>>>>Do you know if there is a list on the nfb lists whare people can get >>>>>support >>>>>for stuff like that? I don't think there are because I hadn't seen any >>>>>but. >>>>>I'll try to find some other lists I can post to. I know you're not >>>>> trying >>>>>to minimize anything. Let me know if you know of any good lists out >>>>> there >>>>>particularly for people who are blind and who have gone through long >>>>>distance relationships or any relationshIps for that matter. Thanks so >>>>>much. >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth >>>>>Mohnke >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>>Hello David, >>>>> >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am >>>>>not >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate >>>>>details of your personal relationship. >>>>> >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. >>>>>This >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are >>>>>subscribed >>>>> >>>>>to >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the >>>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing >>>>>such >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. >>>>> >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that >>>>> are >>>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see >>>>>how >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates >>>>> to >>>>>the >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in >>>>>general >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a >>>>> specific >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered >>>>> appropriate >>>>>for this email list. >>>>> >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your >>>>>personal >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship >>>>>would >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails >>>>>rather >>>>>than in a public email list. >>>>> >>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>>>> > Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what >>>>> > actually happened between us. I found everything out last night. I >>>>> > had to really really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. >>>>> > She said that there were some things about me that she thought she >>>>> > could handle in the beginning but when she through about it and when >>>>> > it actually happened she didn't think she could. One of the things >>>>> > was the crying spells I go through. I suffer from bipolar and my >>>>> > bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma past away just >>>>> > about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the crying >>>>> > spells >>>>> > really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were >>>>> > so >>>>> > intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this >>>>> > relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry >>>>> > really hard. Some times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell >>>>> > me before that she didn't think she could handle those but she >>>>> > didn't. >>>>> > when she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before >>>>> > she told me that's when she started talking to this other person. >>>>> > If >>>>> > she would have said something in the beginning it would have been >>>>> > easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg shells because she >>>>> > would >>>>> > talk about her grand parents or her family and I'd start to cry. I >>>>> > guess it was just really really hard for her. >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti >>>>> > Shelton >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM >>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> > >>>>> > Hi all, >>>>> > >>>>> > I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching >>>>> > the >>>>> > distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music >>>>> > program we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off >>>>> > the >>>>> > summer before my senior year and made the best of the long distance >>>>> > situation. We were both in school and involved in clubs and band >>>>> > and >>>>> > stuff, but we made it work the best we could. On our breaks he >>>>> > would >>>>> > come down to visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could >>>>> > go >>>>> > together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to find >>>>> > our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in the room >>>>> > it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at his local >>>>> > community college and worked on transfering to a university in the >>>>> > same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from me and >>>>> > in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see >>>>> > each >>>>> > other every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every >>>>> > day, but with school for both of us it can't really be helped and >>>>> > it's >>>>> > a lot better than every few months. >>>>> > I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do >>>>> > with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all >>>>> > boils >>>>> > down to preference of both people in the relationship, their >>>>> > communication skills, their patience for being in a long distance >>>>> > relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree that sometimes >>>>> > blind people appear to enter into text-based relationships and get >>>>> > wrapped up in them more often than sighted people and this can >>>>> > sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness is just a trait, >>>>> > not >>>>> > a personality trait or something that really is important in a >>>>> > relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, or >>>>> > that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're >>>>> > committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually >>>>> > strengthen the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, >>>>> > and appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, >>>>> > because they were priviledges for both of us. >>>>> > High school long distance relationships sort of have their own >>>>> > restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the >>>>> > relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high >>>>> > school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the >>>>> > weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the relationship >>>>> > going once they and their boyfriend started going to different >>>>> > colleges in different cities because it seemed like they really >>>>> > didn't >>>>> > appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were really >>>>> > willing to make things work. >>>>> > School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life >>>>> > keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like >>>>> > college where the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner >>>>> > after >>>>> > or between classes. >>>>> > It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and >>>>> > certainly >>>>> > plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a >>>>> > long distance relationship should be to make it short distance >>>>> > assuming everything works out, but if that can't happen easily for >>>>> > transportation, money, and school reasons than you might as well be >>>>> > as >>>>> > happy as possible together and make things work as it sounds like >>>>> > Sophie is doing. It's just the practical thing to do considering >>>>> > the >>>>> > circumstances. Kudos! >>>>> > >>>>> > On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> >> I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships >>>>> >> are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional >>>>> >> topic >>>>> >> for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go >>>>> >> through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you >>>>> >> should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply >>>>> >> when going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the >>>>> >> other >>>>> >> person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being >>>>> >> overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, >>>>> >> namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, >>>>> >> never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over >>>>> >> every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. >>>>> >> I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with >>>>> >> depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I >>>>> >> know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the >>>>> >> guy >>>>> >> I was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and >>>>> >> how I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on >>>>> >> medications for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being >>>>> >> quite >>>>> >> hypocritical. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>> >>> Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you >>>>> >>> didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if >>>>> >>> you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of >>>>> >>> the relationship. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Koby Cox" >>>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>> >>> list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Sophie, >>>>> >>> Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls >>>>> >>> relation ship? >>>>> >>> Thanks, >>>>> >>> Koby. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> >>> Sophie >>>>> >>> Trist >>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM >>>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in >>>>> >>> Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat >>>>> >>> through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since >>>>> >>> we >>>>> >>> started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few >>>>> >>> bad >>>>> >>> experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe >>>>> >>> that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>> Sophie >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: Sarah >>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> >>> list>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>> >>> list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance >>>>> >>> ones >>>>> >>> they never work. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>> >>> list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked >>>>> >>> about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its >>>>> >>> gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a >>>>> >>> lot of crying spells. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> >>> Gloria >>>>> >>> G >>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM >>>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the >>>>> >>> list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Hi, >>>>> >>> I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice >>>>> >>> guy >>>>> >>> and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you >>>>> >>> guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel >>>>> >>> better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your >>>>> >>> mind off things. >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" >>>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have >>>>> >>> bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I >>>>> >>> know that this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to >>>>> >>> post it anyhow. >>>>> >>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one >>>>> >>> whare >>>>> >>> she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at >>>>> >>> the beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to >>>>> >>> but we started to hit it off really really well. About a week or >>>>> >>> so >>>>> >>> later she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to >>>>> >>> Michigan >>>>> >>> to see her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna >>>>> >>> stay and be with her. Right now I live in a board and care >>>>> >>> facility. It turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when >>>>> >>> she bought the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having >>>>> >>> doubts and fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had >>>>> >>> my fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked >>>>> >>> about >>>>> >>> them but a few days later she called the relationship off because >>>>> >>> there were some symptoms which were rather minor ones that she >>>>> >>> said >>>>> >>> she couldn't handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going >>>>> >>> to see this guy in Colorado. >>>>> >>> Mind >>>>> >>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I >>>>> >>> feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played >>>>> >>> with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who >>>>> >>> want to could help me through this. I've been going through a >>>>> >>> lot >>>>> >>> of crying spells. >>>>> >>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 >>>>> >>> and >>>>> >>> had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the >>>>> >>> tenth. >>>>> >>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. >>>>> >>> Loosing my >>>>> >>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love >>>>> >>> and >>>>> >>> did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. >>>>> >>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as >>>>> >>> well >>>>> >>> and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. >>>>> >>> Maybe >>>>> >>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going >>>>> >>> through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through >>>>> >>> them. >>>>> >>> My >>>>> >>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they >>>>> >>> may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I >>>>> >>> wasn't >>>>> >>> good enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>> >>> %40gm >>>>> >>> ail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4 >>>>> >>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> >>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >>>>> >>> il.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> >>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>>> > ail.co >>>>> > m >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >>>>> > 40gmai >>>>> > l.com >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Kaiti >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmai >>>>> > l.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> > for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmai >>>>> > l.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net Mon Feb 18 22:33:58 2013 From: devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:33:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Printers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5122AC56.7060208@pcdesk.net> Steve, Oh no, not trying to convince. I have a policy against doing that unless asked to do so because of how combative people can get. I wrote the message because you had a few "not sure about this" types of sentences, so I was trying to fill in the blanks if I could since I'd just done the price calculations in the past couple months. Joe From theweird1 at centurylink.net Mon Feb 18 22:50:01 2013 From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:50:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the time to be its moderator. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, >A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >information. >Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. net From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 22:53:46 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:53:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I to actually set up the list initially. Arielle On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I > suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the > time to be its moderator. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > Mihalakis > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > other blind folks > > Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the > thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman > wrote: >>Hi all, >>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>information. >>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>Arielle >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 23:04:35 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:04:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <196BB052-D036-47F0-8147-B35A36C5B5DF@gmail.com> hi arielle, I can do all the tech part of it, if you would like me to. It would be a pleasure to help you out. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >> time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>> information. >>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 23:05:55 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:05:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <196BB052-D036-47F0-8147-B35A36C5B5DF@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <196BB052-D036-47F0-8147-B35A36C5B5DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <07EBBCDD-CE14-406B-A5ED-AE940CBBBAE5@gmail.com> google groups have privacy options as well. I have used both and can help you with either should you need. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hi arielle, > > I can do all the tech part of it, if you would like me to. It would be a pleasure to help you out. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >> to actually set up the list initially. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>> time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>> Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>> information. >>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 23:11:04 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:11:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >> time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 23:20:01 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:20:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <19D511DC-1FFF-47BD-A9CB-FD1CE6ABFD30@gmail.com> Hi desiree, To me it is much more about what you have to say than it is about the diploma that you have. I myself currently have no diploma yet i have done a lot of family and education counseling for brazilian families who were struggling with blind children, and I would share my opinion without thinking twice about it, though i would make it clear that I am no professional in the area. Add that to the fact that most psychologists don't like doing things online professionally and you'd be good to moderate if you like. I believe it would be extremely unfair for a moderator not to be able to express emotion since he or she would read all the list or close to it, but that again is just me. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess > I'd better speak up. > While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it > happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon > the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a > good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of > me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some > of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any > other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure > how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. > My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever > names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list > should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, > so that's just a minor inconvenience. > So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and > ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable > with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather > than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both > tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll > think about it some more. > > On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >> to actually set up the list initially. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>> time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>> Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>> Silverman >>> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>> information. >>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From theweird1 at centurylink.net Mon Feb 18 23:25:36 2013 From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:25:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <000601ce0e2f$42bcbc00$c8363400$@centurylink.net> I would have no problem with the moderator chiming in with both thoughts and his or her own problems. Loren -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >> the time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >> the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted >>>on YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. net From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Mon Feb 18 23:36:58 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:36:58 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> , Message-ID: Since this affects some students, why not have a NABS membership call where those of you that deal with these things can educate others on how you deal with your issues, and attend class at the same time. That would be an interesting discussion! Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >> time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Feb 19 00:03:10 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:03:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: As the list owner, and someone who has used lists, forums, and related vehicles for over 25 years, I would like to point out a few things. First, all of our regular lists have public archives, so anything you post will be around, and viewable by all. And finable by all, including future employers. I don't say that to quash conversation, but to make people aware of the parameters. When a list is successful, and running well people contribute and learn, and a sense of community develops. I think that generally happens on this list. So, people tend to support each other, and if some messages are off topic, strictly speaking, it is tolerated. As list owner I often walk a fine line, and I tend to be fairly lenient. I think we need some structure and guidelines for a list, but not too many. There are clearly things that are appropriate for discussion, and things that are not. On the one hand, using disability services at a university would be on topic here, and discussion of retirement benefits would not. However, things aren't usually that clear cut. Is discussion of long-distance relationships, and breakups on topic here. Someone could say since I am a student, and since this happened to me, then yes. I would say, strictly speaking, no, but in terms of fostering community and support, some discussion of this, or another topic is ok. If it goes too far, or goes on too long, I might step in and try to redirect things. One thing I see, that you may not is that when something isn't working people start to unsubscribe. You wouldn't normally know that as a list user, as most people just quietly go away. There is also the point of view that anything is ok for discussion because we are all blind, and going through it as a blind person. I don't subscribe to this, because with no restrictions, chaos soon ensues. Each list has to have a basic purpose or people don't know what to expect. If we have a list where the discussion of relationships as a blind person would be appropriate, it would probably be Blind Talk, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org I hope my rambling makes sense. I am not getting on anyone, just trying to explain my thoughts to the list. David Andrews, List Owner At 01:25 PM 2/18/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing >personal and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not >necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often >than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I >went to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they >would probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the >easiest thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a >car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. >I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or >Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the >ones who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being >an adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in >this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, >not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they >be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would >like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through >something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame >it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far >into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire >a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these >problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > >On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > > I agree > > David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > > where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > > of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > > mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > > adds something to the support David is looking for. > > I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > > and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > > crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > > point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > > crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > > Ari > > > > On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Good morning, List, > >> > >> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > >> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > >> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > >> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > >> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > >> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > >> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > >> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > >> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > >> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > >> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>Hello Desiree and List, > >>> > >>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is > >>>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > >>> > >>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through > >>>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there > >>>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than > >>>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >>> > >>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other > >>>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific > >>>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide > >>>some resources. > >>> > >>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, > >>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be > >>>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar > >>>disorder as well. > >>> > >>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem > >>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in > >>>the future. > >>> > >>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from > >>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the > >>> community. > >>> > >>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing > >>>them with the whole entire world. > >>> > >>>Respectfully, > >>>Elizabeth > >>> > >>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's > >>>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about > >>>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > >>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell > >>>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no > >>>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I > >>>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > >>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > >>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how > >>>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their > >>>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of > >>>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that > >>>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job > >>>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list > >>>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel > >>>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out > >>>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > >>>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you > >>>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was > >>>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate > >>>>and permanent backlash. > >>>> > >>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>Hello David, > >>>>> > >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am > >>>>> not > >>>>> > >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > >>>>>details of your personal relationship. > >>>>> > >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > >>>>> This > >>>>> > >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > >>>>> subscribed > >>>>> to > >>>>> > >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > >>>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing > >>>>> such > >>>>> > >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that > >>>>> are > >>>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see > >>>>> how > >>>>> > >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates > >>>>> to > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > >>>>> general > >>>>> > >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a > >>>>> specific > >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>>> appropriate > >>>>>for this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > >>>>> personal > >>>>> > >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > >>>>> would > >>>>> > >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > >>>>> rather > >>>>>than in a public email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>> > >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>> > >>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>>> actually > >>>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that > >>>>>> there > >>>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the > >>>>>>beginning > >>>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't > >>>>>>think > >>>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I > >>>>>>suffer > >>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma > >>>>>>past > >>>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the > >>>>>> crying > >>>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells > >>>>>>were > >>>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > >>>>>>relationship > >>>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. > >>>>>> Some > >>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she > >>>>>>didn't > >>>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did > >>>>>> tell > >>>>>>me > >>>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she > >>>>>>started > >>>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the > >>>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on > >>>>>>egg > >>>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>I'd > >>>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>>>>Shelton > >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > >>>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > >>>>>>program > >>>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer > >>>>>>before > >>>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We > >>>>>> were > >>>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>work > >>>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he > >>>>>>even > >>>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory > >>>>>>with > >>>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he > >>>>>>finished > >>>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a > >>>>>>university > >>>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from > >>>>>> me > >>>>>>and > >>>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > >>>>>>other > >>>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but > >>>>>>with > >>>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better > >>>>>>than > >>>>>>every few months. > >>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > >>>>>> with > >>>>>>the > >>>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to > >>>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication > >>>>>>skills, > >>>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of > >>>>>>other > >>>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into > >>>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than > >>>>>>sighted > >>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness > >>>>>> is > >>>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is > >>>>>>important > >>>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, > >>>>>> or > >>>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > >>>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > >>>>>>strengthen > >>>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>>> appreciated > >>>>>>the > >>>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were > >>>>>>priviledges > >>>>>>for both of us. > >>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>>restrictions, > >>>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It > >>>>>>always > >>>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not > >>>>>>seeing > >>>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd > >>>>>>keep > >>>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to > >>>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>willing to make things work. > >>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > >>>>>> keep > >>>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college > >>>>>>where > >>>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between > >>>>>>classes. > >>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > >>>>>>plane > >>>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long > >>>>>>distance > >>>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything > >>>>>>works > >>>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and > >>>>>>school > >>>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and > >>>>>> make > >>>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the > >>>>>> practical > >>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > >>>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > >>>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > >>>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > >>>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > >>>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >>>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > >>>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > >>>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > >>>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > >>>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > >>>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how > >>>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications > >>>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > >>>>>>>hypocritical. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if > >>>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>relationship. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>>>>>> relation > >>>>>>>>ship? > >>>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > >>>>>>>>Trist > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > >>>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > >>>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > >>>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > >>>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe > >>>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>>list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > >>>>>>>>they never work. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > >>>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its > >>>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a > >>>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria > >>>>>>>> G > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > >>>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you > >>>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel > >>>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your > >>>>>>>>mind off things. > >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>>> bipolar > >>>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > >>>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > >>>>>>>>anyhow. > >>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > >>>>>>>> whare > >>>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > >>>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > >>>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and > >>>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > >>>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > >>>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears > >>>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well > >>>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few > >>>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some > >>>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't > >>>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this > >>>>>>>> guy > >>>>>>>>in Colorado. > >>>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > >>>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played > >>>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who > >>>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot > >>>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > >>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > >>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > >>>>>>>> well > >>>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > >>>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > >>>>>>>>them. > >>>>>>>>My > >>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > >>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue Feb 19 00:11:22 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:11:22 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> , Message-ID: I'd like to point out something else. I'm a minister in the United Pentecostal Church International. There's a forum called Apostolic Ministers Forum, and it's a closed forum, meaning that only forum members can see what's posted, and there's no public archive. VBulletin has a feature to make a forum closed to the public. Also, Yahoo Groups are closed to the public as well. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of David Andrews [dandrews at visi.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. As the list owner, and someone who has used lists, forums, and related vehicles for over 25 years, I would like to point out a few things. First, all of our regular lists have public archives, so anything you post will be around, and viewable by all. And finable by all, including future employers. I don't say that to quash conversation, but to make people aware of the parameters. When a list is successful, and running well people contribute and learn, and a sense of community develops. I think that generally happens on this list. So, people tend to support each other, and if some messages are off topic, strictly speaking, it is tolerated. As list owner I often walk a fine line, and I tend to be fairly lenient. I think we need some structure and guidelines for a list, but not too many. There are clearly things that are appropriate for discussion, and things that are not. On the one hand, using disability services at a university would be on topic here, and discussion of retirement benefits would not. However, things aren't usually that clear cut. Is discussion of long-distance relationships, and breakups on topic here. Someone could say since I am a student, and since this happened to me, then yes. I would say, strictly speaking, no, but in terms of fostering community and support, some discussion of this, or another topic is ok. If it goes too far, or goes on too long, I might step in and try to redirect things. One thing I see, that you may not is that when something isn't working people start to unsubscribe. You wouldn't normally know that as a list user, as most people just quietly go away. There is also the point of view that anything is ok for discussion because we are all blind, and going through it as a blind person. I don't subscribe to this, because with no restrictions, chaos soon ensues. Each list has to have a basic purpose or people don't know what to expect. If we have a list where the discussion of relationships as a blind person would be appropriate, it would probably be Blind Talk, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org I hope my rambling makes sense. I am not getting on anyone, just trying to explain my thoughts to the list. David Andrews, List Owner At 01:25 PM 2/18/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing >personal and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not >necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often >than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I >went to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they >would probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the >easiest thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a >car and a job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. >I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or >Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the >ones who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being >an adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in >this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, >not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they >be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would >like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through >something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame >it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far >into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire >a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these >problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > >On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > > I agree > > David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > > where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > > of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > > mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > > adds something to the support David is looking for. > > I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > > and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > > crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and blindness > > point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with my specific > > crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > > Ari > > > > On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Good morning, List, > >> > >> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > >> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > >> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > >> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > >> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms of > >> Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his blind > >> peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > >> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this List > >> a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > >> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > >> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>Hello Desiree and List, > >>> > >>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is > >>>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > >>> > >>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through > >>>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there > >>>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than > >>>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >>> > >>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other > >>>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific > >>>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide > >>>some resources. > >>> > >>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved one, > >>>a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be > >>>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar > >>>disorder as well. > >>> > >>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship problem > >>>as well as give you some tools for building healthy relationships in > >>>the future. > >>> > >>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range from > >>>personal counseling to referral services to other resources in the > >>> community. > >>> > >>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing > >>>them with the whole entire world. > >>> > >>>Respectfully, > >>>Elizabeth > >>> > >>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to Dave's > >>>>defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal things about > >>>>myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I slipped > >>>>and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I can't tell > >>>>you how angry it makes me that most people in our society place no > >>>>value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I was growing up, I > >>>>was told, in many different ways and by many people, directly and > >>>>indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad and that I would be a > >>>>failure in life for having them. As I've gotten older, I have seen how > >>>>so many people go through their lives, hating their jobs, hating their > >>>>lives, distrusting everyone, and all of this is a direct result of > >>>>suppressing emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that > >>>>everything, from violence to infidelity in marriages to job > >>>>dissatisfaction, is directly related to this, but I know this list > >>>>isn't the place to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel > >>>>needs to be said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out > >>>>in desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > >>>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what you > >>>>did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others did was > >>>>not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate > >>>>and permanent backlash. > >>>> > >>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>Hello David, > >>>>> > >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, but I am > >>>>> not > >>>>> > >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the intimate > >>>>>details of your personal relationship. > >>>>> > >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > >>>>> This > >>>>> > >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > >>>>> subscribed > >>>>> to > >>>>> > >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access to the > >>>>>internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice about sharing > >>>>> such > >>>>> > >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters that > >>>>> are > >>>>>relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, but I fail to see > >>>>> how > >>>>> > >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship relates > >>>>> to > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships in > >>>>> general > >>>>> > >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a > >>>>> specific > >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>>> appropriate > >>>>>for this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in your > >>>>> personal > >>>>> > >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal relationship > >>>>> would > >>>>> > >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private emails > >>>>> rather > >>>>>than in a public email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>> > >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>> > >>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>>> actually > >>>>>>happened between us. I found everything out last night. I had to > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>really talk to Terri about it. She finally told me. She said that > >>>>>> there > >>>>>>were some things about me that she thought she could handle in the > >>>>>>beginning > >>>>>>but when she through about it and when it actually happened she didn't > >>>>>>think > >>>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go through. I > >>>>>>suffer > >>>>>>from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the depressed side. My grandma > >>>>>>past > >>>>>>away just about 3 weeks ago and that's when the depression and the > >>>>>> crying > >>>>>>spells really started. It was hard for her because the crying spells > >>>>>>were > >>>>>>so intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > >>>>>>relationship > >>>>>>didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would cry really hard. > >>>>>> Some > >>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that she > >>>>>>didn't > >>>>>>think she could handle those but she didn't. when she finally did > >>>>>> tell > >>>>>>me > >>>>>>that's when she broke it off and before she told me that's when she > >>>>>>started > >>>>>>talking to this other person. If she would have said something in the > >>>>>>beginning it would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on > >>>>>>egg > >>>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her family > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>I'd > >>>>>>start to cry. I guess it was just really really hard for her. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti > >>>>>>Shelton > >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of ditching the > >>>>>>distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years at a summer music > >>>>>>program > >>>>>>we both attended several years ago. We really hit it off the summer > >>>>>>before > >>>>>>my senior year and made the best of the long distance situation. We > >>>>>> were > >>>>>>both in school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>work > >>>>>>the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to visit, and he > >>>>>>even > >>>>>>came for my senior prom so we could go together. (Despite all our > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>>moments we had with trying to find our way around unfamiliar territory > >>>>>>with > >>>>>>a lot of people in the room it was really fun). Last semester he > >>>>>>finished > >>>>>>up at his local community college and worked on transfering to a > >>>>>>university > >>>>>>in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 miles away from > >>>>>> me > >>>>>>and > >>>>>>in another state our universities are pretty close and we can see each > >>>>>>other > >>>>>>every few weeks. Sure, we don't get to see each other every day, but > >>>>>>with > >>>>>>school for both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better > >>>>>>than > >>>>>>every few months. > >>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to do > >>>>>> with > >>>>>>the > >>>>>>relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it all boils down to > >>>>>>preference of both people in the relationship, their communication > >>>>>>skills, > >>>>>>their patience for being in a long distance relationship, and a lot of > >>>>>>other > >>>>>>factors. I do agree that sometimes blind people appear to enter into > >>>>>>text-based relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than > >>>>>>sighted > >>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise blindness > >>>>>> is > >>>>>>just a trait, not a personality trait or something that really is > >>>>>>important > >>>>>>in a relationship. I don't think long distance relationships are bad, > >>>>>> or > >>>>>>that they just don't work. They're not for everyone, but if you're > >>>>>>committed and patient and the other person is too it can actually > >>>>>>strengthen > >>>>>>the relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>>> appreciated > >>>>>>the > >>>>>>times when my boyfriend would come to visit, because they were > >>>>>>priviledges > >>>>>>for both of us. > >>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>>restrictions, > >>>>>>especially the further apart the people in the relationship are. It > >>>>>>always > >>>>>>made me sad when my friends in high school would complain about not > >>>>>>seeing > >>>>>>their boyfriends over the weekend, or if they would question if they'd > >>>>>>keep > >>>>>>the relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going to > >>>>>>different colleges in different cities because it seemed like they > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>didn't appreciate the time they spent with their boyfriend or were > >>>>>> really > >>>>>>willing to make things work. > >>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family life > >>>>>> keep > >>>>>>high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's not like college > >>>>>>where > >>>>>>the people can meet for lunch or go out to dinner after or between > >>>>>>classes. > >>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and certainly > >>>>>>plane > >>>>>>tickets cost money. Of course I champion that the goal of a long > >>>>>>distance > >>>>>>relationship should be to make it short distance assuming everything > >>>>>>works > >>>>>>out, but if that can't happen easily for transportation, money, and > >>>>>>school > >>>>>>reasons than you might as well be as happy as possible together and > >>>>>> make > >>>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the > >>>>>> practical > >>>>>>thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance relationships > >>>>>>>are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a very emotional topic > >>>>>>>for me, I fully respect the fact that for others, they don't go > >>>>>>>through what I went through. All I was trying to convey is that you > >>>>>>>should really keep both eyes, ears, and your heart and soul open when > >>>>>>>going into these situations. then again, if people thought deeply > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>going into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >>>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, being > >>>>>>>overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its drawbacks, > >>>>>>>namely that I go around and around in endless circles in my head, > >>>>>>>never being able to draw any conclusion, endlessly agonizing over > >>>>>>>every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal with > >>>>>>>depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my life, so I > >>>>>>>know how people react to that news. In my last relationship, the guy > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>was with liked to tell me how weak I was for being depressed, and how > >>>>>>>I was unable to handle everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications > >>>>>>>for depression and anxiety as well, so he was being quite > >>>>>>>hypocritical. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if you > >>>>>>>>didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. And, if > >>>>>>>>you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal details of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>relationship. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>>>>>> relation > >>>>>>>>ship? > >>>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie > >>>>>>>>Trist > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend lives in > >>>>>>>>Australia and we have been going out for over a year. We just chat > >>>>>>>>through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een each other since we > >>>>>>>>started being a couple. It's different, but it's feasible. A few bad > >>>>>>>>experiences isn't enough to say you hate relationships. I believe > >>>>>>>>that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>>list >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long whtance ones > >>>>>>>>they never work. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually talked > >>>>>>>>about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not sure. Its > >>>>>>>>gonna take some time to get over this. I've been going through a > >>>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria > >>>>>>>> G > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really nice guy > >>>>>>>>and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things cool off you > >>>>>>>>guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well I hope you feel > >>>>>>>>better. Try doing something that is fun for you just to get your > >>>>>>>>mind off things. > >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>>> bipolar > >>>>>>>>and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. I know that > >>>>>>>>this may be off the topic of this list but I wanted to post it > >>>>>>>>anyhow. > >>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance one > >>>>>>>> whare > >>>>>>>>she lives in Michigan and I in California. We started talking at > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>beginning of January right after new years. We didn't mean to but > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>started to hit it off really really well. About a week or so later > >>>>>>>>she bought plane tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see > >>>>>>>>her. If I liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and > >>>>>>>>be with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > >>>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought the > >>>>>>>>tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and fears > >>>>>>>>about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my fears as well > >>>>>>>>and knew this was a normal thing. We talked about them but a few > >>>>>>>>days later she called the relationship off because there were some > >>>>>>>>symptoms which were rather minor ones that she said she couldn't > >>>>>>>>handle. It turns out that she is now tomorrow going to see this > >>>>>>>> guy > >>>>>>>>in Colorado. > >>>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either but I > >>>>>>>>feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions were played > >>>>>>>>with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering if any of you who > >>>>>>>>want to could help me through this. I've been going through a lot > >>>>>>>>of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was 90 > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening of the tenth. > >>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could love > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to Colorado. > >>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression as > >>>>>>>> well > >>>>>>>>and she found him on a sight for people with mental illnesses. > >>>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been going > >>>>>>>>through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need help through > >>>>>>>>them. > >>>>>>>>My > >>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like they > >>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>>not be able to understand what's going on. I feel like I wasn't > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>>enough for her. I'm just really really hurt. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 19 00:28:33 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:28:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net><000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> desiree, a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to moderate; professionals can join, but I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >> time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 01:14:04 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:14:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> Message-ID: That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, and I was more or less gauging interest. With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most certainly be private. On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > desiree, > a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to > moderate; professionals can join, but > I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > other blind folks > > Hi all, > Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess > I'd better speak up. > While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it > happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon > the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a > good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of > me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some > of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any > other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure > how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. > My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever > names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list > should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, > so that's just a minor inconvenience. > So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and > ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable > with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather > than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both > tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll > think about it some more. > > On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >> to actually set up the list initially. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>> the >>> time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>> Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>> Silverman >>> wrote: >>>>Hi all, >>>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>information. >>>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 02:10:40 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:10:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group where young blind adults could talk about social issues like relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list members think they might have a mental health condition and are looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in the past or present. Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. Arielle On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run > anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, > without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to > be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, > moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't > think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are > involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, > invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too > well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, > and I was more or less gauging interest. > With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. > I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less > accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group > before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most > certainly be private. > > On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> desiree, >> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >> moderate; professionals can join, but >> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Hi all, >> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >> I'd better speak up. >> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >> think about it some more. >> >> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>> to actually set up the list initially. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>> the >>>> time to be its moderator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>> Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>> other blind folks >>>> >>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>> the >>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>>>Hi all, >>>>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>information. >>>>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>Arielle >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 03:03:49 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:03:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with google myself. as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group > where young blind adults could talk about social issues like > relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't > think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for > people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list > members think they might have a mental health condition and are > looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, > the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate > and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other > egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide > formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of > these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to > talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in > the past or present. > Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't > then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a > group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if > one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever > interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely > join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to >> be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are >> involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too >> well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, >> and I was more or less gauging interest. >> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >> certainly be private. >> >> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> desiree, >>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >>> moderate; professionals can join, but >>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>> I'd better speak up. >>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >>> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >>> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >>> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >>> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >>> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >>> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >>> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >>> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >>> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >>> think about it some more. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>>> to actually set up the list initially. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>>> the >>>>> time to be its moderator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>> Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>>> other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>>> the >>>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>>> Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>> information. >>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net Tue Feb 19 03:22:05 2013 From: devnull-nabs-l at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:22:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <5122EFDD.8020500@pcdesk.net> If you are having trouble setting up the list due to accessibility, I offer my server as a list hosting platform. It would be the same type of setup as that offered by nfbnet, but I would of course have the archives private instead of public for this list. I can also assist in list setup on yahoogroups, googlegroups, or what ever else people decide to use. Any technical help you require, feel free to ask and if I can provide it I will. Joe From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 03:26:20 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:26:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <5122EFDD.8020500@pcdesk.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <5122EFDD.8020500@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <2701EDDE-5A65-4BBA-9276-9E48B64BDC2F@gmail.com> hi joe, I also have a server running mailman myself, and I thought of using it, but the problem i found is that at least on google people have a fixed domain for subscribing that is already known, where as here we would have to match this list to ac ompletely new domain, and it is hard to separate, then, this list from what is going on at the site of such domain for instance. that is my only reservation with this option. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 10:22 PM, "Joseph C. Lininger" wrote: > If you are having trouble setting up the list due to accessibility, I offer my server as a list hosting platform. It would be the same type of setup as that offered by nfbnet, but I would of course have the archives private instead of public for this list. I can also assist in list setup on yahoogroups, googlegroups, or what ever else people decide to use. Any technical help you require, feel free to ask and if I can provide it I will. > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Feb 19 03:49:19 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:49:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <2B607BAC-493D-405B-A9A1-50361F755AD3@samobile.net> What makes groups like the one you're suggesting so powerful is the ability to mentor each other. No mental health experiences needed to be an excellent mentor. It only takes listening skills and common sense. I don't think there's a mentor alive and any subject who is devoid of the issues they are helping somebody else with. That's just the nature of being human. We think we've learned our lesson in a particular area, but it comes back up at some point in our future. So what you ultimately wind up with is a circular mentoring process. And when it comes to list like this one, the one who often suggests it is often one of the people who needs it the most. And in my view, that's not a bad thing. It's like they say: necessity is the mother of invention. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 18, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess > I'd better speak up. > While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it > happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon > the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a > good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of > me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some > of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any > other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure > how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. > My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever > names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list > should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, > so that's just a minor inconvenience. > So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and > ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable > with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather > than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both > tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll > think about it some more. > > On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >> to actually set up the list initially. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>> time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>> Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>> Silverman >>> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>> information. >>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Feb 19 03:55:47 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:55:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> Hi, List, Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking about emotional crises, people! Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a given, anyway? Car, but >I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >-----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >with other blind folks > >Hi all, >Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >I'd better speak up. >While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >so that's just a minor inconvenience. >So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >think about it some more. > >On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>to actually set up the list initially. >>Arielle >> >>On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>>time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>Mihalakis >>>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>other blind folks >>> >>>Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>>thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>Silverman >>>wrote: >>>>Hi all, >>>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>information. >>>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From zeek786 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:03:06 2013 From: zeek786 at gmail.com (Zeeshan Khan) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:03:06 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program Message-ID: Hi all, I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a legally blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten my degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late to the game. So how did any of you learn computer science/ programming? What resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent programmer? Thanks, -- Zeeshan Khan ToiBooks www.toibooks.com http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Feb 19 04:05:23 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:05:23 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218200229.01e258f0@comcast.net> Hi, Desire, It ought not matter if you are involved with the working of the List, if you're blind, that might be among the requirements? As always, full of ideas but not know-how...2013, Desire Oudinot wrote: >Hi all, >Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >I'd better speak up. >While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >so that's just a minor inconvenience. >So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >think about it some more. > >On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > > to actually set up the list initially. > > Arielle > > > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I > >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the > >> time to be its moderator. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > >> Mihalakis > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > >> other blind folks > >> > >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the > >> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle > >> Silverman > >> wrote: > >>>Hi all, > >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or > >>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about > >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and > >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the > >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about > >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on > >>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not > >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and > >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). > >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are > >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very > >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate > >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain > >>>information. > >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? > >>>Arielle > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. > >>>net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. > >> net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:05:44 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:05:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I've just done a trial run with Yahoogroups, and it seems very easy to set up and manage. I wouldn't mind setting up the group with them, now that I'm confident I know how it works. Thanks to all your helpful feedback, I also have decided that I want to moderate the group. the only thing I'm still stuck on is a name. If anyone has any suggestions, shoot them my way, and we can get this thing up off the ground. On 2/18/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for a > while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with google > myself. > as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of >> these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to >> talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in >> the past or present. >> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't >> then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a >> group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if >> one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever >> interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely >> join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to >>> be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are >>> involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too >>> well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, >>> and I was more or less gauging interest. >>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>> certainly be private. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> desiree, >>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >>>> moderate; professionals can join, but >>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>> other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>>> I'd better speak up. >>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >>>> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >>>> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >>>> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >>>> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >>>> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >>>> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >>>> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >>>> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >>>> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >>>> think about it some more. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>>>> to actually set up the list initially. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>>>> the >>>>>> time to be its moderator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>> with >>>>>> other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>>>> the >>>>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>>>> Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>>> information. >>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:10:39 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:10:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi desiree, I'm happy that you went ahead and did that. I hadn't thought of a name myself, but I will definitely give it a thought. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > I've just done a trial run with Yahoogroups, and it seems very easy to > set up and manage. I wouldn't mind setting up the group with them, now > that I'm confident I know how it works. Thanks to all your helpful > feedback, I also have decided that I want to moderate the group. the > only thing I'm still stuck on is a name. If anyone has any > suggestions, shoot them my way, and we can get this thing up off the > ground. > > On 2/18/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for a >> while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with google >> myself. >> as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >>> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >>> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >>> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >>> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >>> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >>> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >>> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >>> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >>> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >>> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of >>> these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to >>> talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in >>> the past or present. >>> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't >>> then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a >>> group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if >>> one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever >>> interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely >>> join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to >>>> be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are >>>> involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too >>>> well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, >>>> and I was more or less gauging interest. >>>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>>> certainly be private. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> desiree, >>>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >>>>> moderate; professionals can join, but >>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>>> other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>>>> I'd better speak up. >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >>>>> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >>>>> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >>>>> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >>>>> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >>>>> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>>>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>>>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>>>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >>>>> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >>>>> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >>>>> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >>>>> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >>>>> think about it some more. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>>>>> to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>>>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time to be its moderator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> other blind folks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>>>>> Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>>>> information. >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:10:46 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:10:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> Zeeshan, There is a listserv on the NFBNet server which is especially for blind people who work in computer science and programming. This is the list of the NFB in Computer Science (NFBCS.) I think this list would be a great resource for you. To subscribe to this list, send an email with the subject "subscribe" (not in quotes) to nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program Hi all, I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a legally blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten my degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late to the game. So how did any of you learn computer science/ programming? What resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent programmer? Thanks, -- Zeeshan Khan ToiBooks www.toibooks.com http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 19 04:13:48 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:13:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net><000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net><6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carley, We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list devoted to only social issues is better. David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating on here, but it cannot get too far off track. I say go for creating the list and we can have more private conversations there. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi, List, Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking about emotional crises, people! Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a given, anyway? Car, but >I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >-----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >other blind folks > >Hi all, >Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >I'd better speak up. >While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >so that's just a minor inconvenience. >So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >think about it some more. > >On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>to actually set up the list initially. >>Arielle >> >>On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>>time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>Mihalakis >>>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>other blind folks >>> >>>Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>>thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>Silverman >>>wrote: >>>>Hi all, >>>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>information. >>>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:17:01 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:17:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net><000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net><6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> well said. noone is putting anyone down here. go for the list:) On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Carley, > We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list devoted to only social issues is better. > David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating on here, but it cannot get too far off track. > I say go for creating the list and we can have more private conversations there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks > > Hi, List, > > Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other > social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? > Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like > some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally > unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via > an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm > convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking > about emotional crises, people! > Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a > given, anyway? > Car, but >> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks >> >> Hi all, >> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >> I'd better speak up. >> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >> think about it some more. >> >> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>> to actually set up the list initially. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have the >>>> time to be its moderator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>> Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>> other blind folks >>>> >>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate the >>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>> information. >>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From zeek786 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:23:35 2013 From: zeek786 at gmail.com (Zeeshan Khan) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:23:35 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program In-Reply-To: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> References: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Yes, thanks for that. I just signed up for it. The reason why I wanted to be on this list as well was hppefully to connect with other students who may possibly be CS students. Thanks, Zeeshan On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Zeeshan, > > There is a listserv on the NFBNet server which is especially for blind > people who work in computer science and programming. This is the list of > the > NFB in Computer Science (NFBCS.) I think this list would be a great > resource > for you. To subscribe to this list, send an email with the subject > "subscribe" (not in quotes) to nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:03 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program > > Hi all, > I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a > legally > blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and > computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten my > degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late to > the game. So how did any of you learn computer science/ programming? What > resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent > programmer? > > Thanks, > > -- > > Zeeshan Khan > > ToiBooks > www.toibooks.com > http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com > -- Zeeshan Khan ToiBooks www.toibooks.com http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:25:24 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:25:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004e01ce0e59$23dc9560$6b95c020$@gmail.com> Desiree and all, This sounds like a great idea and one which I am interested in, especially since the seminar we are currently planning here in Maryland will be about social issues as they relate to blindness. Please let me know when you have this list started so we can mention it at our seminar as a welcoming and supportive place where our attendees can go if they have any further questions after the discussions we will have. Also, perhaps you and/or anyone else who might have ideas for this list could join us on some of the conference calls the Maryland student division board will be having to discuss what we would like to see on the agenda for such a seminar. We will try to take the ideas we get and incorporate them into our agenda, assuming we can find speakers. If any of you have any ideas for topics you would like to see covered at a seminar about social issues related to blindness or if you live in the Maryland area and you would be interested in speaking on a certain topic, please don't hesitate to write me off-list or call me (my phone number is in my signature below.) I'm sorry to divert a little from the new list idea itself to put out a little feeler for seminar ideas; I guess that's what we PR people do. Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, I've just done a trial run with Yahoogroups, and it seems very easy to set up and manage. I wouldn't mind setting up the group with them, now that I'm confident I know how it works. Thanks to all your helpful feedback, I also have decided that I want to moderate the group. the only thing I'm still stuck on is a name. If anyone has any suggestions, shoot them my way, and we can get this thing up off the ground. On 2/18/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for > a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with > google myself. > as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of >> these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful >> to talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences >> in the past or present. >> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't >> then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a >> group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if >> one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever >> interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely >> join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need >>> to be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals >>> are involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out >>> too well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that >>> way, and I was more or less gauging interest. >>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>> certainly be private. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> desiree, >>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine >>>> to moderate; professionals can join, but I think the list should be >>>> for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. >>>> Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind >>>> is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would >>>> be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it >>>> to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, >>>> social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this >>>> up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing >>>> with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let >>>> me know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Carly Mihalakis >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional >>>>>> issues with other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so >>>>>>> that people could post about relationship issues, family >>>>>>> difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the >>>>>>> archives will be private so no one who is not subscribed will be >>>>>>> able to read the content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be >>>>>>> that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a >>>>>>> place to obtain information. >>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e >>>> arthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >> %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:26:34 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:26:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program In-Reply-To: References: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004f01ce0e59$4d43f2e0$e7cbd8a0$@gmail.com> Zeeshan, No problem; that's what we're here for! Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Learning to program Hi Chris, Yes, thanks for that. I just signed up for it. The reason why I wanted to be on this list as well was hppefully to connect with other students who may possibly be CS students. Thanks, Zeeshan On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Zeeshan, > > There is a listserv on the NFBNet server which is especially for blind > people who work in computer science and programming. This is the list > of the NFB in Computer Science (NFBCS.) I think this list would be a > great resource for you. To subscribe to this list, send an email with > the subject "subscribe" (not in quotes) to nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan > Khan > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:03 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program > > Hi all, > I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a > legally blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned > programming and computer science as a blind person. The things is I > have already gotten my degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am > not sure if I am too late to the game. So how did any of you learn > computer science/ programming? What resources did you use? how long > did it take you to become a decent programmer? > > Thanks, > > -- > > Zeeshan Khan > > ToiBooks > www.toibooks.com > http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.co > m > -- Zeeshan Khan ToiBooks www.toibooks.com http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:40:26 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:40:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301ce0e5b$51838670$f48a9350$@gmail.com> Hmm... I'm thinking something along the lines of Blind Social Talk... Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio Almeida Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks hi desiree, I'm happy that you went ahead and did that. I hadn't thought of a name myself, but I will definitely give it a thought. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > I've just done a trial run with Yahoogroups, and it seems very easy to > set up and manage. I wouldn't mind setting up the group with them, now > that I'm confident I know how it works. Thanks to all your helpful > feedback, I also have decided that I want to moderate the group. the > only thing I'm still stuck on is a name. If anyone has any > suggestions, shoot them my way, and we can get this thing up off the > ground. > > On 2/18/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for >> a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with >> google myself. >> as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >>> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >>> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >>> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >>> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >>> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >>> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >>> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >>> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >>> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >>> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many >>> of these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still >>> helpful to talk about them with other people who have had similar >>> experiences in the past or present. >>> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you >>> don't then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set >>> up a group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator >>> even if one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use >>> whichever interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody >>> can freely join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need >>>> to be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals >>>> are involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out >>>> too well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it >>>> that way, and I was more or less gauging interest. >>>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>>> certainly be private. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> desiree, >>>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is >>>>> fine to moderate; professionals can join, but I think the list >>>>> should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. >>>>> Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the >>>>> blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it >>>>> would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would >>>>> use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a >>>>> psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I >>>>> only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing >>>>> with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? >>>>> Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Carly Mihalakis >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional >>>>>>> issues with other blind folks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so >>>>>>>> that people could post about relationship issues, family >>>>>>>> difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the >>>>>>>> archives will be private so no one who is not subscribed will >>>>>>>> be able to read the content of the list (and GoogleGroups might >>>>>>>> be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create >>>>>>>> a separate list that is more of a support group rather than a >>>>>>>> place to obtain information. >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 >>>>> earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeid >>> a%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:40:26 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:40:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <2B607BAC-493D-405B-A9A1-50361F755AD3@samobile.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <2B607BAC-493D-405B-A9A1-50361F755AD3@samobile.net> Message-ID: <005101ce0e5b$4ed1ace0$ec7506a0$@gmail.com> Jedi, Amen and amen! What you are describing is precicely why it is so important to have listservs like this one, seminars, etc. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Moerke Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks What makes groups like the one you're suggesting so powerful is the ability to mentor each other. No mental health experiences needed to be an excellent mentor. It only takes listening skills and common sense. I don't think there's a mentor alive and any subject who is devoid of the issues they are helping somebody else with. That's just the nature of being human. We think we've learned our lesson in a particular area, but it comes back up at some point in our future. So what you ultimately wind up with is a circular mentoring process. And when it comes to list like this one, the one who often suggests it is often one of the people who needs it the most. And in my view, that's not a bad thing. It's like they say: necessity is the mother of invention. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 18, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess > I'd better speak up. > While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it > happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon > the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a > good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of > me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some > of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any > other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure > how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. > My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever > names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list > should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, > so that's just a minor inconvenience. > So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and > ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable > with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather > than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both > tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll > think about it some more. > > On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than >> I to actually set up the list initially. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But >>> I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would >>> have the time to be its moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>> Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>> the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, >>> Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>> or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead >>>> and create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one >>>> where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post >>>> about relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is >>>> hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who >>>> is not subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>> to obtain information. >>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>> net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40sa > mobile.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:40:26 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:40:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] hosting the new social issues list was RE: Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Message-ID: <005001ce0e5b$4e40b780$eac22680$@gmail.com> Joe, If you have a server on which the list could be hosted, that sounds like a good option. There is also freelists.org, although I have tried to set up a list on that server and have found the moderator interface to be very confusing. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. Lininger Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks If you are having trouble setting up the list due to accessibility, I offer my server as a list hosting platform. It would be the same type of setup as that offered by nfbnet, but I would of course have the archives private instead of public for this list. I can also assist in list setup on yahoogroups, googlegroups, or what ever else people decide to use. Any technical help you require, feel free to ask and if I can provide it I will. Joe _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:40:26 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:40:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net><000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net><6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> Ashley and Mauricio, I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a place where these topics can be discussed more freely. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio Almeida Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks well said. noone is putting anyone down here. go for the list:) On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Carley, > We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list devoted to only social issues is better. > David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating on here, but it cannot get too far off track. > I say go for creating the list and we can have more private conversations there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > with other blind folks > > Hi, List, > > Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other social > forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? > Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like some > pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally > unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via > an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm > convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking about > emotional crises, people! > Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a > given, anyway? > Car, but >> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Hi all, >> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >> I'd better speak up. >> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >> know, and I'll think about it some more. >> >> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than >>> I to actually set up the list initially. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But >>>> I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would >>>> have the time to be its moderator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>> Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could >>>>> talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we >>>>> should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place from >>>>> NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>> to obtain information. >>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>> net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>> il.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >> t.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:46:07 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:46:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. In-Reply-To: References: <511b1004.c8c3320a.730f.ffffebd6@mx.google.com> <000001ce0a2e$3d5224d0$b7f66e70$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218062429.01bf74d0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005501ce0e5c$08dc2bb0$1a948310$@gmail.com> Dave, Your thoughts do make sense to me, and I'm glad you shared them. Maybe you would be able to help the moderators of this new list as they are beginning to run their own list, if of course Desiree, Arielle and any others involved would want that. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. As the list owner, and someone who has used lists, forums, and related vehicles for over 25 years, I would like to point out a few things. First, all of our regular lists have public archives, so anything you post will be around, and viewable by all. And finable by all, including future employers. I don't say that to quash conversation, but to make people aware of the parameters. When a list is successful, and running well people contribute and learn, and a sense of community develops. I think that generally happens on this list. So, people tend to support each other, and if some messages are off topic, strictly speaking, it is tolerated. As list owner I often walk a fine line, and I tend to be fairly lenient. I think we need some structure and guidelines for a list, but not too many. There are clearly things that are appropriate for discussion, and things that are not. On the one hand, using disability services at a university would be on topic here, and discussion of retirement benefits would not. However, things aren't usually that clear cut. Is discussion of long-distance relationships, and breakups on topic here. Someone could say since I am a student, and since this happened to me, then yes. I would say, strictly speaking, no, but in terms of fostering community and support, some discussion of this, or another topic is ok. If it goes too far, or goes on too long, I might step in and try to redirect things. One thing I see, that you may not is that when something isn't working people start to unsubscribe. You wouldn't normally know that as a list user, as most people just quietly go away. There is also the point of view that anything is ok for discussion because we are all blind, and going through it as a blind person. I don't subscribe to this, because with no restrictions, chaos soon ensues. Each list has to have a basic purpose or people don't know what to expect. If we have a list where the discussion of relationships as a blind person would be appropriate, it would probably be Blind Talk, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org I hope my rambling makes sense. I am not getting on anyone, just trying to explain my thoughts to the list. David Andrews, List Owner At 01:25 PM 2/18/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >I, too, have often wished that there was a list for discussing personal >and emotional problems as they relate to blindness. It's not >necessarily that the problems we face are different, but more often >than not, there is another dimension to explain. For example, if I went >to see a counselor about my depression, the first thing they would >probably tell me is that I need to get out more. That's the easiest >thing in the world for the average sighted person who has a car and a >job to say, after all. But in my case, it's not that simple. >I live in a rural area where there's no public transportation or >Paratransit service. If I want to go somewhere, my parents are the ones >who decide that, despite the fact that I'm an adult, and, being an >adult, this is one of my greatest frustrations, being controlled in >this way. A counselor would probably just shrug and say, "suck it up, >not everyone has a car, either." They're only human too. How can they >be empathetic if they haven't experienced something similar? I would >like the perspective of a fellow blind person who's gone through >something similar, so that maybe they could tell me how they overcame >it. How they moved out with no support, because, without going too far >into it, my parents don't want me to do that, and I can't exactly hire >a moving van and drive it. I have no one to turn to with these >problems, so having a support group of sorts would be nice. > >On 2/18/13, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > > I agree > > David is blind, so I think there should be some sort of blind list > > where he can discuss these things, because, like it or not, the fact > > of blindness sometimes does play a role. Obviously there are > > mainstream services he can turn to, but maybe the blindness factor > > adds something to the support David is looking for. > > I for example, there are many crises and things I would like answers > > and help with. There are many mainstream lists for the particular > > crisis and questions I have, but I want more a disabled and > > blindness point of view, or a disabled support group in dealing with > > my specific crisis I'm going through at the moment, but I just can't find one. > > Ari > > > > On 2/18/13, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Good morning, List, > >> > >> Lay off our good buddy, Dave! Too often it is a social protocol to > >> act like a machine, forever using pallid, impersonal terms for > >> expressing oneself. Don't people think there are enough of us, > >> forgoing emotion to express themselves, just so what they say fits > >> into somebody's box,is snug within somebody's form? And, in terms > >> of Dave's reaching out, in his state of personal crisis, to his > >> blind peers, Not a reason for crucifixion, I dare say. > >> He's simply groping for support, and answers. I would think this > >> List a more supportive place, to air such crisies of the spirit? No? > >> I guess in this case, we are family, but only to a point.:00 PM > >> 2/13/2013, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>Hello Desiree and List, > >>> > >>>I completely understand the need to express one's personal emotions. > >>>However, I do not believe a public email list where the purpose is > >>>to discuss issues related to being a blind student is the most > >>>appropriate place to express such personal emotions. I believe > >>>personal matters are meant to be kept private, and today's role of > >>>social media has conditioned us to be more public with our private lives. > >>> > >>>I agree with Arielle in that I believe what David is going through > >>>is rather common among the general public. However, I believe there > >>>are more effective ways in dealing with these issues rather than > >>>simply posting a mass email on an email list intended for blind students. > >>> > >>>There are several different hotlines where one can receive support > >>>for these specific issues, and can sometimes refer you to other > >>>local resources for ongoing support. I cannot recall any specific > >>>hotlines at the moment, but a simple internet search should provide > >>>some resources. > >>> > >>>If you are looking for counseling regarding the loss of a loved > >>>one, a local hospital should be able to provide you with some local > >>>resources to help support you during your loss. They may also be > >>>able to provide information regarding support groups for bipolar > >>>disorder as well. > >>> > >>>Other resources you may wish to check out include 211 and domestic > >>>violence crisis centers. The 211 service is a local service number > >>>that lists various community services. And although your personal > >>>situation with your girlfriend would not be classified as domestic > >>>violence, a crisis center may be able to provide you with some > >>>resources you can use to deal with your current relationship > >>>problem as well as give you some tools for building healthy > >>>relationships in the future. > >>> > >>>Finally, if you are a student, there are generally counselors on > >>>campus who can help you through emotional -term problems which > >>>prevent you from being a successful student. Services may range > >>>from personal counseling to referral services to other resources in > >>>the community. > >>> > >>>So while I believe expressing one's emotions is a rather healthy > >>>thing to do, it can be more helpful and beneficial to express them > >>>among a selected group of individuals rather than simply sharing > >>>them with the whole entire world. > >>> > >>>Respectfully, > >>>Elizabeth > >>> > >>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>From: "Desiree Oudinot" > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:44 PM > >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>> > >>>>hi Elizabeth, > >>>>Your message wasn't directed at me, but I would like to come to > >>>>Dave's defense here a bit, since I also shared some personal > >>>>things about myself in my previous messages on this topic. > >>>>I'm sorry, but if an employer takes the time to hunt through the > >>>>archives of this list, and chooses not to hire me because I > >>>>slipped and let a bit of emotion show, that's really their loss. I > >>>>can't tell you how angry it makes me that most people in our > >>>>society place no value whatsoever on one's emotional state. When I > >>>>was growing up, I was told, in many different ways and by many > >>>>people, directly and indirectly, that expressing emotions is bad > >>>>and that I would be a failure in life for having them. As I've > >>>>gotten older, I have seen how so many people go through their > >>>>lives, hating their jobs, hating their lives, distrusting > >>>>everyone, and all of this is a direct result of suppressing > >>>>emotions. I could make a solid case for the fact that everything, > >>>>from violence to infidelity in marriages to job dissatisfaction, > >>>>is directly related to this, but I know this list isn't the place > >>>>to go that deep into philosophical issues. What I feel needs to be > >>>>said is that exposing a so-called weakness, reaching out in > >>>>desperation because you don't know where to turn, shouldn't be a > >>>>cause to jump down someone's throat. I'm not saying that's what > >>>>you did, but I also feel that what Dave and I and a couple others > >>>>did was not inherently wrong. I don't think it will doom us or cause immediate and permanent backlash. > >>>> > >>>>On 2/13/13, Elizabeth Mohnke wrote: > >>>>>Hello David, > >>>>> > >>>>>I do not mean to minimize the pain of your personal situation, > >>>>>but I am not > >>>>> > >>>>>quite sure if this list is the appropriate place to share the > >>>>>intimate details of your personal relationship. > >>>>> > >>>>>The emails you post to this email list are stored in a public archive. > >>>>> This > >>>>> > >>>>>means that not only can your emails be viewed by those who are > >>>>>subscribed to > >>>>> > >>>>>this email list, but they can be viewed by anyone who has access > >>>>>to the internet. With this in mind, you may wish to think twice > >>>>>about sharing such > >>>>> > >>>>>personal information about yourself on this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>In addition, the purpose of this email list is to discuss matters > >>>>>that are relevant to being a blind student. Please forgive me, > >>>>>but I fail to see how > >>>>> > >>>>>disclosing intimate details regarding a personal relationship > >>>>>relates to the > >>>>> > >>>>>intended purpose of this email list. I can see how relationships > >>>>>in general > >>>>> > >>>>>could be a relevant topic for this list, but I do not see how a > >>>>>specific > >>>>>individual detailed relationship problem would be considered > >>>>> appropriate > >>>>>for this email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Again, I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulties in > >>>>>your personal > >>>>> > >>>>>life, but I believe the intimate details of your personal > >>>>>relationship would > >>>>> > >>>>>be more suited for conversations that take place in private > >>>>>emails rather than in a public email list. > >>>>> > >>>>>Respectfully, > >>>>>Elizabeth > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>From: "Dave Webster" > >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:08 PM > >>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>> > >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>> > >>>>>>Hi Katie thanks for the post. I wanted to talk a bit about what > >>>>>>actually happened between us. I found everything out last > >>>>>>night. I had to really really talk to Terri about it. She > >>>>>>finally told me. She said that there were some things about me > >>>>>>that she thought she could handle in the beginning but when she > >>>>>>through about it and when it actually happened she didn't think > >>>>>>she could. One of the things was the crying spells I go > >>>>>>through. I suffer from bipolar and my bipolar is more on the > >>>>>>depressed side. My grandma past away just about 3 weeks ago and > >>>>>>that's when the depression and the crying spells really > >>>>>>started. It was hard for her because the crying spells were so > >>>>>>intense and I would cry so hard, and I still do because this > >>>>>>relationship didn't work out, but when my grandma died I would > >>>>>>cry really hard. > >>>>>> Some > >>>>>>times they would last a wile. She wanted to tell me before that > >>>>>>she didn't think she could handle those but she didn't. when > >>>>>>she finally did tell me that's when she broke it off and before > >>>>>>she told me that's when she started talking to this other > >>>>>>person. If she would have said something in the beginning it > >>>>>>would have been easier. I guess she felt like she was on egg > >>>>>>shells because she would talk about her grand parents or her > >>>>>>family and I'd start to cry. I guess it was just really really > >>>>>>hard for her. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>Kaiti Shelton > >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:17 PM > >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I've just finished a long distance relationship by way of > >>>>>>ditching the distance. I met my boyfriend of almost two years > >>>>>>at a summer music program we both attended several years ago. > >>>>>>We really hit it off the summer before my senior year and made > >>>>>>the best of the long distance situation. We were both in > >>>>>>school and involved in clubs and band and stuff, but we made it > >>>>>>work the best we could. On our breaks he would come down to > >>>>>>visit, and he even came for my senior prom so we could go > >>>>>>together. (Despite all our blind moments we had with trying to > >>>>>>find our way around unfamiliar territory with a lot of people in > >>>>>>the room it was really fun). Last semester he finished up at > >>>>>>his local community college and worked on transfering to a > >>>>>>university in the same city as mine. Now instead of living 300 > >>>>>>miles away from me and in another state our universities are > >>>>>>pretty close and we can see each other every few weeks. Sure, > >>>>>>we don't get to see each other every day, but with school for > >>>>>>both of us it can't really be helped and it's a lot better than > >>>>>>every few months. > >>>>>>I don't necessarily think being blind or sighted has anything to > >>>>>>do with the relationship. As Mauricio and others have said it > >>>>>>all boils down to preference of both people in the relationship, > >>>>>>their communication skills, their patience for being in a long > >>>>>>distance relationship, and a lot of other factors. I do agree > >>>>>>that sometimes blind people appear to enter into text-based > >>>>>>relationships and get wrapped up in them more often than sighted > >>>>>>people and this can sometimes be problematic, but otherwise > >>>>>>blindness is just a trait, not a personality trait or something > >>>>>>that really is important in a relationship. I don't think long > >>>>>>distance relationships are bad, or that they just don't work. > >>>>>>They're not for everyone, but if you're committed and patient > >>>>>>and the other person is too it can actually strengthen the > >>>>>>relationship. I know I appreciate my situation now, and > >>>>>>appreciated the times when my boyfriend would come to visit, > >>>>>>because they were priviledges for both of us. > >>>>>>High school long distance relationships sort of have their own > >>>>>>restrictions, especially the further apart the people in the > >>>>>>relationship are. It always made me sad when my friends in high > >>>>>>school would complain about not seeing their boyfriends over the > >>>>>>weekend, or if they would question if they'd keep the > >>>>>>relationship going once they and their boyfriend started going > >>>>>>to different colleges in different cities because it seemed like > >>>>>>they really didn't appreciate the time they spent with their > >>>>>>boyfriend or were really willing to make things work. > >>>>>>School schedules, activities like sports and clubs, and family > >>>>>>life keep high school kids busy. With the set schedules it's > >>>>>>not like college where the people can meet for lunch or go out > >>>>>>to dinner after or between classes. > >>>>>>It's also a matter of transportation; bus tickets, gas, and > >>>>>>certainly plane tickets cost money. Of course I champion that > >>>>>>the goal of a long distance relationship should be to make it > >>>>>>short distance assuming everything works out, but if that can't > >>>>>>happen easily for transportation, money, and school reasons than > >>>>>>you might as well be as happy as possible together and make > >>>>>>things work as it sounds like Sophie is doing. It's just the > >>>>>>practical thing to do considering the circumstances. Kudos! > >>>>>> > >>>>>>On 2/12/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>>>>>I hope I didn't come off as saying that long distance > >>>>>>>relationships are bad. I didn't mean to. While this is still a > >>>>>>>very emotional topic for me, I fully respect the fact that for > >>>>>>>others, they don't go through what I went through. All I was > >>>>>>>trying to convey is that you should really keep both eyes, > >>>>>>>ears, and your heart and soul open when going into these > >>>>>>>situations. then again, if people thought deeply when going > >>>>>>>into any relationship, no matter how near or far the other > >>>>>>>person is, they might have more success. On the other hand, > >>>>>>>being overly analytical, as I have a tendency to be, has its > >>>>>>>drawbacks, namely that I go around and around in endless > >>>>>>>circles in my head, never being able to draw any conclusion, > >>>>>>>endlessly agonizing over every possible detail of things until I feel like I could explode. > >>>>>>>I understand, to a degree, what you're dealing with. I deal > >>>>>>>with depression and anxiety as well, and have for most of my > >>>>>>>life, so I know how people react to that news. In my last > >>>>>>>relationship, the guy I was with liked to tell me how weak I > >>>>>>>was for being depressed, and how I was unable to handle > >>>>>>>everyday stresses. Yet, he was on medications for depression > >>>>>>>and anxiety as well, so he was being quite hypocritical. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>On 2/12/13, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>>Um... I'M IN FREAKING HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if > >>>>>>>>you didn't know that... it just made me feel a little awkward. > >>>>>>>>And, if you don't mind Koby, I'd rather not share the personal > >>>>>>>>details of the relationship. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Koby Cox" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 19:31:37 -0600 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sophie, > >>>>>>>>Are you guys engaged or can you tell me more about your alls > >>>>>>>>relation ship? > >>>>>>>>Thanks, > >>>>>>>>Koby. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>Sophie Trist > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:56 PM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sarah, long distance relationships can work. My boyfriend > >>>>>>>>lives in Australia and we have been going out for over a year. > >>>>>>>>We just chat through the phone and texts and stuff. We've een > >>>>>>>>each other since we started being a couple. It's different, > >>>>>>>>but it's feasible. A few bad experiences isn't enough to say > >>>>>>>>you hate relationships. I believe that there is someone out there for everyone; it just takes time. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>Sophie > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: Sarah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>>>>>>list >>>>>>>>-0800 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>I cry every day. I hate relationships, especially long > >>>>>>>>whtance ones they never work. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:13:11 -0800 > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Yea thanks. I think she did get scared but we had actually > >>>>>>>>talked about that. I mean hopefully we can talk but I'm not > >>>>>>>>sure. Its gonna take some time to get over this. I've been > >>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>>>Gloria G > >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:55 AM > >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Hi, > >>>>>>>>I am so sorry that happened to you. You seem like a really > >>>>>>>>nice guy and I think she just got scared. Maybe after things > >>>>>>>>cool off you guys can talk and figure out what happened. Well > >>>>>>>>I hope you feel better. Try doing something that is fun for > >>>>>>>>you just to get your mind off things. > >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>From: "Dave Webster" >>>>>>>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:44 PM > >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello. Wanted to post something to the list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello all. I'm Dave. I am not a student right now. I have > >>>>>>>>bipolar and am unable to handle the stress of going to school. > >>>>>>>>I know that this may be off the topic of this list but I > >>>>>>>>wanted to post it anyhow. > >>>>>>>> I just got out of a relationship. It was a long distance > >>>>>>>>one whare she lives in Michigan and I in California. We > >>>>>>>>started talking at the beginning of January right after new > >>>>>>>>years. We didn't mean to but we started to hit it off really > >>>>>>>>really well. About a week or so later she bought plane > >>>>>>>>tickets for me to come out there to Michigan to see her. If I > >>>>>>>>liked it out there then I was most likely gonna stay and be > >>>>>>>>with her. Right now I live in a board and care facility. It > >>>>>>>>turns out that for a couple of weeks probably when she bought > >>>>>>>>the tickets or pretty soonn after she began having doubts and > >>>>>>>>fears about the relationship. I had my doubts and had my > >>>>>>>>fears as well and knew this was a normal thing. We talked > >>>>>>>>about them but a few days later she called the relationship > >>>>>>>>off because there were some symptoms which were rather minor > >>>>>>>>ones that she said she couldn't handle. It turns out that > >>>>>>>>she is now tomorrow going to see this guy in Colorado. > >>>>>>>>Mind > >>>>>>>> you she doesn't know this guy and she didn't know me either > >>>>>>>>but I feel like we had something. I feel like my emotions > >>>>>>>>were played with and I'm really hurt. I was just wondering > >>>>>>>>if any of you who want to could help me through this. I've > >>>>>>>>been going through a lot of crying spells. > >>>>>>>> During this time on January 10th I lost my grandma. She was > >>>>>>>>90 and had bad dementia and died in her sleep on the evening > >>>>>>>>of the tenth. > >>>>>>>> So I am trying to work with 2 losses right after another. > >>>>>>>>Loosing my > >>>>>>>> grandma and loosing Terri. Terri was someone that I could > >>>>>>>>love and did love and still do. I wish she wouldn't go to > >>>>>>>>Colorado. > >>>>>>>> This guy that she's going to see has anxiety and depression > >>>>>>>>as well and she found him on a sight for people with mental > >>>>>>>>illnesses. > >>>>>>>>Maybe > >>>>>>>> if any of you want to we could talk off list. I've been > >>>>>>>>going through a lot of crying spells and sometimes I need > >>>>>>>>help through them. > >>>>>>>>My > >>>>>>>> friends, which by the way I don't have a lot of I feel like > >>>>>>>>they may not be able to understand what's going on. I feel > >>>>>>>>like I wasn't good enough for her. I'm just really really > >>>>>>>>hurt. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:47:28 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or blind-relationships all sound fine to me. Arielle On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Ashley and Mauricio, > > I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically archived and > it could be considered an "official" list of the Federation; after all, it > is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a list like the one Desiree and > others are talking about would be a place where these topics can be > discussed more freely. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio > Almeida > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > other blind folks > > well said. > noone is putting anyone down here. > go for the list:) > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> Carley, >> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list > devoted to only social issues is better. >> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating on > here, but it cannot get too far off track. >> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private conversations > there. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Hi, List, >> >> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other social >> forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like some >> pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking about >> emotional crises, people! >> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >> given, anyway? >> Car, but >>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>> I'd better speak up. >>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any > trouble. >>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than >>>> I to actually set up the list initially. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But >>>>> I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would >>>>> have the time to be its moderator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>> Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could >>>>>> talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we >>>>>> should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place from >>>>>> NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have > to check). >>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas >>> t.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:49:52 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:49:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> , Message-ID: <005b01ce0e5c$8e7c8b70$ab75a250$@gmail.com> Joshua, That might be a good topic for a membership call. We're talking about this kind of thing at a student seminar we are planning in Maryland; why not a NABS Membership call? If you would like to submit this idea to the NABS Membership Committee, email nabs.membership at gmail.com. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Since this affects some students, why not have a NABS membership call where those of you that deal with these things can educate others on how you deal with your issues, and attend class at the same time. That would be an interesting discussion! Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >> the time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >> the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted >>>on YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o nmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 04:51:38 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:51:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> Arielle, I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or blind-relationships all sound fine to me. Arielle On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Ashley and Mauricio, > > I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically > archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the > Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a > list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a > place where these topics can be discussed more freely. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio > Almeida > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > with other blind folks > > well said. > noone is putting anyone down here. > go for the list:) > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett > > wrote: > >> Carley, >> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list > devoted to only social issues is better. >> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >> on > here, but it cannot get too far off track. >> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >> conversations > there. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Hi, List, >> >> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >> about emotional crises, people! >> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >> given, anyway? >> Car, but >>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>> guess I'd better speak up. >>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >>> any > trouble. >>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>> Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >>>>>> have > to check). >>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>> a >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> r >>> thlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca >>> s >>> t.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> t >> hlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >> % >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 05:09:10 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:09:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this because it isn't in the name of the list. feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Arielle, > > I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. > Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > other blind folks > > Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or > blind-relationships all sound fine to me. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Ashley and Mauricio, >> >> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically >> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the >> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a >> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a >> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio >> Almeida >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> well said. >> noone is putting anyone down here. >> go for the list:) >> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >> wrote: >> >>> Carley, >>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list >> devoted to only social issues is better. >>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >>> on >> here, but it cannot get too far off track. >>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >>> conversations >> there. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> Hi, List, >>> >>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >>> about emotional crises, people! >>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >>> given, anyway? >>> Car, but >>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >>>> any >> trouble. >>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >>>>>>> have >> to check). >>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>> a >>>>>> il.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>> r >>>> thlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca >>>> s >>>> t.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> t >>> hlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >>> % >>> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From aridamoulakis at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 06:37:36 2013 From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:37:36 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program In-Reply-To: References: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Zeeshan I've got some books I can attach for you. I've just started with them but they seem to teach in an accessible and easy way. When I come home from Uni I'll email you properly. Obviously these books won't make you a computer scientist, but it is a good idea even if you aren't going to be studying to that level to just know a little programming because you can then make things for yourself. The books I've found are especially for beginners who know absolutely nothing about programming. Also, what is the screen reader you use, because if you have jaws I have a nice book on how to start learning the scripting, which could be a better first step before trying programming. Ari On 2/19/13, Zeeshan Khan wrote: > Hi Chris, > Yes, thanks for that. I just signed up for it. The reason why I wanted to > be on this list as well was hppefully to connect with other students who > may possibly be CS students. > > Thanks, > Zeeshan > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > >> Zeeshan, >> >> There is a listserv on the NFBNet server which is especially for blind >> people who work in computer science and programming. This is the list of >> the >> NFB in Computer Science (NFBCS.) I think this list would be a great >> resource >> for you. To subscribe to this list, send an email with the subject >> "subscribe" (not in quotes) to nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:03 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program >> >> Hi all, >> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a >> legally >> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and >> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten >> my >> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late >> to >> the game. So how did any of you learn computer science/ programming? >> What >> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent >> programmer? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> >> Zeeshan Khan >> >> ToiBooks >> www.toibooks.com >> http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > > Zeeshan Khan > > ToiBooks > www.toibooks.com > http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 06:47:20 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:47:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, I think I'll go with Blind Social Talk. It's general enough without being too broad, but also states its purpose clearly. The only thing I have to do now is create a file for the rules that will be sent out on a monthly basis, then I'll create the group itself, since that only takes a minute to do. there's one more thing I would like some opinions on, however. When a person joins the list, I will approve them, as I don't trust the system of just having Yahoo automatically approve everyone. I've seen what happens when groups get overrun by spammers. So, since this group is aimed at a target audience, and sensitive information is going to be shared, do you think it would be sensible for me to ask that each person write a brief statement about themselves before they're approved to join, just so I can get a feel for their motivations for joining, and their age? I don't want to seem overly paranoid, but the last thing we need is a bunch of trolls or people who are up to no good. No offense to anyone on this list, as I highly doubt such people are here to join, but I'm hoping that the word is spread beyond this list, and that others will hear of it. I'm also wondering where else I might spread the word, so that I can reach more people who might benefit. I thought about maybe creating a board topic on the zone BBS, but I'm a little weary about that, simply because, well, not everyone on that site is exactly trustworthy. Any thoughts would be appreciated. On 2/19/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown > into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this > because it isn't in the name of the list. > > feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Arielle, >> >> I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. >> Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or >> blind-relationships all sound fine to me. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Ashley and Mauricio, >>> >>> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically >>> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the >>> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a >>> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a >>> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio >>> Almeida >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> well said. >>> noone is putting anyone down here. >>> go for the list:) >>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Carley, >>>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list >>> devoted to only social issues is better. >>>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >>>> on >>> here, but it cannot get too far off track. >>>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >>>> conversations >>> there. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi, List, >>>> >>>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >>>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >>>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >>>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >>>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >>>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >>>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >>>> about emotional crises, people! >>>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >>>> given, anyway? >>>> Car, but >>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >>>>> any >>> trouble. >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >>>>>>>> have >>> to check). >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>> 0 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>> r >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca >>>>> s >>>>> t.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> t >>>> hlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 06:54:36 2013 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:54:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64A086BC-754A-4F81-BB71-0ABB05F3C1FB@gmail.com> hello there, I am in favor of the age checking, definitely, because the first thing losers are going to do is call you nuts if you don't check it. I also believe on the statement, not for being judgmental, but as you said, for knowing what's coming around the corner. facebook/twitter/whatever you have is worth spreading the word. after all, we just asked statements for a reason:) Mauricio On Feb 19, 2013, at 1:47 AM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Ok, I think I'll go with Blind Social Talk. It's general enough > without being too broad, but also states its purpose clearly. The only > thing I have to do now is create a file for the rules that will be > sent out on a monthly basis, then I'll create the group itself, since > that only takes a minute to do. > there's one more thing I would like some opinions on, however. When a > person joins the list, I will approve them, as I don't trust the > system of just having Yahoo automatically approve everyone. I've seen > what happens when groups get overrun by spammers. So, since this group > is aimed at a target audience, and sensitive information is going to > be shared, do you think it would be sensible for me to ask that each > person write a brief statement about themselves before they're > approved to join, just so I can get a feel for their motivations for > joining, and their age? I don't want to seem overly paranoid, but the > last thing we need is a bunch of trolls or people who are up to no > good. No offense to anyone on this list, as I highly doubt such people > are here to join, but I'm hoping that the word is spread beyond this > list, and that others will hear of it. I'm also wondering where else I > might spread the word, so that I can reach more people who might > benefit. I thought about maybe creating a board topic on the zone BBS, > but I'm a little weary about that, simply because, well, not everyone > on that site is exactly trustworthy. Any thoughts would be > appreciated. > > On 2/19/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown >> into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this >> because it isn't in the name of the list. >> >> feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. >> >> Mauricio >> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" >> wrote: >> >>> Arielle, >>> >>> I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. >>> Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or >>> blind-relationships all sound fine to me. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Ashley and Mauricio, >>>> >>>> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically >>>> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the >>>> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a >>>> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a >>>> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>>> Public Relations Committee >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio >>>> Almeida >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> well said. >>>> noone is putting anyone down here. >>>> go for the list:) >>>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Carley, >>>>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list >>>> devoted to only social issues is better. >>>>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >>>>> on >>>> here, but it cannot get too far off track. >>>>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >>>>> conversations >>>> there. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Hi, List, >>>>> >>>>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >>>>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >>>>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >>>>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >>>>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >>>>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >>>>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >>>>> about emotional crises, people! >>>>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >>>>> given, anyway? >>>>> Car, but >>>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>>>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>>>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>>>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>>>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>>>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >>>>>> any >>>> trouble. >>>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>>>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>>>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >>>>>>>>> have >>>> to check). >>>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>>> 0 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>> r >>>>>> thlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca >>>>>> s >>>>>> t.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>>> t >>>>> hlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >>>>> % >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>>> mail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue Feb 19 09:34:13 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:34:13 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com>, Message-ID: I moderate a Yahoo Group. Yahoo doesn't automatically approve everyone. I can add members, and remove members. I'll walk you through the process with my group off list if you'd like. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:47 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Ok, I think I'll go with Blind Social Talk. It's general enough without being too broad, but also states its purpose clearly. The only thing I have to do now is create a file for the rules that will be sent out on a monthly basis, then I'll create the group itself, since that only takes a minute to do. there's one more thing I would like some opinions on, however. When a person joins the list, I will approve them, as I don't trust the system of just having Yahoo automatically approve everyone. I've seen what happens when groups get overrun by spammers. So, since this group is aimed at a target audience, and sensitive information is going to be shared, do you think it would be sensible for me to ask that each person write a brief statement about themselves before they're approved to join, just so I can get a feel for their motivations for joining, and their age? I don't want to seem overly paranoid, but the last thing we need is a bunch of trolls or people who are up to no good. No offense to anyone on this list, as I highly doubt such people are here to join, but I'm hoping that the word is spread beyond this list, and that others will hear of it. I'm also wondering where else I might spread the word, so that I can reach more people who might benefit. I thought about maybe creating a board topic on the zone BBS, but I'm a little weary about that, simply because, well, not everyone on that site is exactly trustworthy. Any thoughts would be appreciated. On 2/19/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown > into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this > because it isn't in the name of the list. > > feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Arielle, >> >> I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. >> Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... >> >> Chris >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> Public Relations Committee >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> other blind folks >> >> Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or >> blind-relationships all sound fine to me. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Ashley and Mauricio, >>> >>> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically >>> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the >>> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a >>> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a >>> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >>> Public Relations Committee >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio >>> Almeida >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>> with other blind folks >>> >>> well said. >>> noone is putting anyone down here. >>> go for the list:) >>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Carley, >>>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list >>> devoted to only social issues is better. >>>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >>>> on >>> here, but it cannot get too far off track. >>>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >>>> conversations >>> there. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>> with other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi, List, >>>> >>>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >>>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >>>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >>>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >>>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >>>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >>>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >>>> about emotional crises, people! >>>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >>>> given, anyway? >>>> Car, but >>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>> with other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >>>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >>>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >>>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >>>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >>>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >>>>> any >>> trouble. >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >>>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >>>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >>>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >>>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >>>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >>>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >>>>>>>> have >>> to check). >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >>>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >>>>>>>> to obtain information. >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>> net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>>> 0 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>> r >>>>> thlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca >>>>> s >>>>> t.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>>> t >>>> hlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida >>>> % >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue Feb 19 09:48:02 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:48:02 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> , <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mauriceo, I'm having issues with Google, because I can't get the audio captcha to play. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with google myself. as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. Mauricio On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group > where young blind adults could talk about social issues like > relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't > think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for > people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list > members think they might have a mental health condition and are > looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, > the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate > and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other > egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide > formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of > these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to > talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in > the past or present. > Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't > then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a > group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if > one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever > interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely > join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to >> be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are >> involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too >> well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, >> and I was more or less gauging interest. >> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >> certainly be private. >> >> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> desiree, >>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >>> moderate; professionals can join, but >>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>> other blind folks >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>> I'd better speak up. >>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >>> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >>> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >>> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >>> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >>> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >>> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >>> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >>> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >>> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >>> think about it some more. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>>> to actually set up the list initially. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>>> the >>>>> time to be its moderator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>> Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>>> other blind folks >>>>> >>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>>> the >>>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>>> Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>> information. >>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>> net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Tue Feb 19 09:50:20 2013 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:50:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Message-ID: <1361267420.25763.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122601.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> BS"D Desiree, Before I got to join the Yahoo Orthodox Conversion to Judaism group I got to answer a questionnaire about myself which only the moderators can see. I did not see it as a problem because the group feels safer thanks to it. I think it is more common today even on the Internet and I think it is a good thing. I only wanted to give my pennies about it. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Tue Feb 19 09:56:41 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:56:41 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <005b01ce0e5c$8e7c8b70$ab75a250$@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> , , <005b01ce0e5c$8e7c8b70$ab75a250$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll submit it, but I can't join the call, because I'm in church when that happens. If we could do it some other time, that would be great. I'm majoring in Behavioral Health, so I have some insight too, especially from the perspective of a youth worker at my church. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chris Nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:49 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Joshua, That might be a good topic for a membership call. We're talking about this kind of thing at a student seminar we are planning in Maryland; why not a NABS Membership call? If you would like to submit this idea to the NABS Membership Committee, email nabs.membership at gmail.com. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Since this affects some students, why not have a NABS membership call where those of you that deal with these things can educate others on how you deal with your issues, and attend class at the same time. That would be an interesting discussion! Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks Hi all, Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess I'd better speak up. While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I > to actually set up the list initially. > Arielle > > On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >> the time to be its moderator. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> with other blind folks >> >> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >> the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >> Silverman >> wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups >>>or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted >>>on YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>information. >>>Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o nmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue Feb 19 15:16:22 2013 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:16:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Google audio CAPTCHA has never done me any good as I have yet to solve one, although I have not tried for a couple of months now. Some features of managing a group require getting past a CAPTCHA, although not all. Also, for whatever list server that would be chosen, one should read all of the privacy statements to be sure one knows how private the list actually is. While list content might not be directly available to the internet, it can be used by list providers, and some may not be comfortable with that. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:48:02 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote: >Mauriceo, I'm having issues with Google, because I can't get the audio captcha to play. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mauricio Almeida [mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com] >Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:03 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks >i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with google myself. >as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. >Mauricio >On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many of >> these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still helpful to >> talk about them with other people who have had similar experiences in >> the past or present. >> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you don't >> then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set up a >> group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator even if >> one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use whichever >> interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody can freely >> join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need to >>> be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals are >>> involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out too >>> well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it that way, >>> and I was more or less gauging interest. >>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>> certainly be private. >>> >>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> desiree, >>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is fine to >>>> moderate; professionals can join, but >>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>> other blind folks >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I guess >>>> I'd better speak up. >>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such a >>>> good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right of >>>> me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out some >>>> of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker or any >>>> other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm not sure >>>> how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up clever >>>> names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical list >>>> should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, though, >>>> so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated and >>>> ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel uncomfortable >>>> with a moderator who used the list for its intended purpose, rather >>>> than just sitting in the background and dealing with problems, both >>>> tech-related and within the list's members? Let me know, and I'll >>>> think about it some more. >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy than I >>>>> to actually set up the list initially. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. But I >>>>>> suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I would have >>>>>> the >>>>>> time to be its moderator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >>>>>> Mihalakis >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >>>>>> other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or moderate >>>>>> the >>>>>> thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM 2/18/2013, Arielle >>>>>> Silverman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on YahooGroups or >>>>>>> GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors could talk about >>>>>>> sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if we should go ahead and >>>>>>> create this list to be a separate place from NABS-L and one where the >>>>>>> topic is a bit more relaxed so that people could post about >>>>>>> relationship issues, family difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on >>>>>>> YahooGroups, the archives will be private so no one who is not >>>>>>> subscribed will be able to read the content of the list (and >>>>>>> GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they are >>>>>>> publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a very >>>>>>> specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a separate >>>>>>> list that is more of a support group rather than a place to obtain >>>>>>> information. >>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>> net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From zeek786 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 19:34:00 2013 From: zeek786 at gmail.com (Zeeshan Khan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:34:00 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program In-Reply-To: References: <004d01ce0e57$1882c510$49884f30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ari. Yeah those books would definitely help. I use a macbook so the built in software is voiceover for text to speech. So how do you like programming? how's your experience been? -Zeeshan On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Ari Damoulakis wrote: > Hi Zeeshan > I've got some books I can attach for you. I've just started with them > but they seem to teach in an accessible and easy way. When I come home > from Uni I'll email you properly. Obviously these books won't make you > a computer scientist, but it is a good idea even if you aren't going > to be studying to that level to just know a little programming because > you can then make things for yourself. The books I've found are > especially for beginners who know absolutely nothing about > programming. > Also, what is the screen reader you use, because if you have jaws I > have a nice book on how to start learning the scripting, which could > be a better first step before trying programming. > Ari > > On 2/19/13, Zeeshan Khan wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > Yes, thanks for that. I just signed up for it. The reason why I wanted to > > be on this list as well was hppefully to connect with other students who > > may possibly be CS students. > > > > Thanks, > > Zeeshan > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Chris Nusbaum > > wrote: > > > >> Zeeshan, > >> > >> There is a listserv on the NFBNet server which is especially for blind > >> people who work in computer science and programming. This is the list of > >> the > >> NFB in Computer Science (NFBCS.) I think this list would be a great > >> resource > >> for you. To subscribe to this list, send an email with the subject > >> "subscribe" (not in quotes) to nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org. > >> > >> Hope this helps, > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >> Public Relations Committee > >> Maryland Association of Blind Students > >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zeeshan > Khan > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:03 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Learning to program > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a > >> legally > >> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and > >> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten > >> my > >> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late > >> to > >> the game. So how did any of you learn computer science/ programming? > >> What > >> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent > >> programmer? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Zeeshan Khan > >> > >> ToiBooks > >> www.toibooks.com > >> http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > >> om > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Zeeshan Khan > > > > ToiBooks > > www.toibooks.com > > http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com > -- Zeeshan Khan ToiBooks www.toibooks.com http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Feb 19 22:49:00 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:49:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: <005301ce0e5b$51838670$f48a9350$@gmail.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <597865F1-2672-41EC-84E9-1900AABD51C0@gmail.com> <005301ce0e5b$51838670$f48a9350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Or how about "blind social quote? Asocial is like a meeting or a party. And since you're talking about social issues, it makes sense. Or for those Mark grammatically correct than myself, "the blind social. " Sent from my iPhone On Feb 18, 2013, at 10:40 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hmm... I'm thinking something along the lines of Blind Social Talk... > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio > Almeida > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > other blind folks > > hi desiree, > > I'm happy that you went ahead and did that. > I hadn't thought of a name myself, but I will definitely give it a thought. > > Mauricio > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I've just done a trial run with Yahoogroups, and it seems very easy to >> set up and manage. I wouldn't mind setting up the group with them, now >> that I'm confident I know how it works. Thanks to all your helpful >> feedback, I also have decided that I want to moderate the group. the >> only thing I'm still stuck on is a name. If anyone has any >> suggestions, shoot them my way, and we can get this thing up off the >> ground. >> >> On 2/18/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>> i am a google fan, simply because I have worked with the company for >>> a while in pretty much all I do, so I'd be more inclined to go with >>> google myself. >>> as soon as we think of a name, we can creat the list and get it going:D. >>> >>> Mauricio >>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I too was envisioning the list as being an informal support group >>>> where young blind adults could talk about social issues like >>>> relationships, getting along with parents, sexuality, etc. I don't >>>> think the list should in any way try to serve as psychotherapy for >>>> people who actually have mental health conditions, although if list >>>> members think they might have a mental health condition and are >>>> looking for professional resources they could ask the list. Ideally, >>>> the moderator would be a list member who would actively participate >>>> and would get involved if there is harassment, flaming or other >>>> egregiously bad list behavior, but who wouldn't necessarily provide >>>> formal advice to list members about the issues they bring up. Many >>>> of these kinds of issues have no clear answer, but it is still >>>> helpful to talk about them with other people who have had similar >>>> experiences in the past or present. >>>> Desiree, if you want to moderate I think that's fine, or if you >>>> don't then I can. It sounds like Mauricio already knows how to set >>>> up a group so maybe he should serve as the technical administrator >>>> even if one of us serves as moderator. We should probably use >>>> whichever interface is more accessible, and set the group so anybody >>>> can freely join, but only subscribed members can read the archives. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/18/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> That makes sense, and that's how I would want my list to be run >>>>> anyway. I would rather have a forum where people can talk openly, >>>>> without a chain of command, so to speak. Of course, when steps need >>>>> to be taken to stop a member from harassing someone, for example, >>>>> moderation needs to happen. But in order to foster trust, I don't >>>>> think a heavy-handed approach, or one where too many professionals >>>>> are involved to the point where they may, however unintentionally, >>>>> invalidate other members' experiences and opinions, would work out >>>>> too well. I was just asking because others may not have seen it >>>>> that way, and I was more or less gauging interest. >>>>> With that in mind, let me take a look at the Yahoogroups interface. >>>>> I've heard that they made changes to it recently that made it less >>>>> accessible, or maybe that was Google Groups. I've never ran a group >>>>> before, so this is new to me. Either way, the archives would most >>>>> certainly be private. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> desiree, >>>>>> a blind person who is mature and been through relationships is >>>>>> fine to moderate; professionals can join, but I think the list >>>>>> should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >>>>>> with other blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >>>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >>>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >>>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. >>>>>> Pardon the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the >>>>>> blind is such a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it >>>>>> would be right of me to moderate such a list when I know I would >>>>>> use it to air out some of my own problems. I'm also not a >>>>>> psychologist, social worker or any other mental health worker. I >>>>>> only bring this up because I'm not sure how formal this group would > have to be, and I don't want any trouble. >>>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >>>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >>>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >>>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >>>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >>>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >>>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >>>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing >>>>>> with problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? >>>>>> Let me know, and I'll think about it some more. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >>>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >>>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >>>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >>>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Carly Mihalakis >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional >>>>>>>> issues with other blind folks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >>>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >>>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >>>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >>>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >>>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >>>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so >>>>>>>>> that people could post about relationship issues, family >>>>>>>>> difficulties etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the >>>>>>>>> archives will be private so no one who is not subscribed will >>>>>>>>> be able to read the content of the list (and GoogleGroups might >>>>>>>>> be that way too; I'd have to check). >>>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >>>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >>>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create >>>>>>>>> a separate list that is more of a support group rather than a >>>>>>>>> place to obtain information. >>>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >>>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink. >>>>>>>> net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40 >>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 >>>>>> earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma >>>>> il.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeid >>>> a%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:14:40 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Message-ID: hello all, As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to join, simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are teens and young adults. If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at turtlepower17 at gmail.com. Sincerely, Desiree From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:18:41 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:18:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Desiree and all, Do you think it would be appropriate to invite folks on the ACB lists to join if they want? I'm assuming this is a nonpartisan list as far as blindness organizations are concerned, right? I'm temporarily subscribed to several ACB lists in order to post my survey on them, so I can forward the info if you want. Arielle On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > hello all, > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to > finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would > like to join, simply send a blank message to > blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon > subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit > from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > teens and young adults. > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > Sincerely, > Desiree > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:22:19 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:22:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle, Absolutely. I am no longer on any ACB lists, or I would have posted the info there myself. But, whether or not a blind person is NFB or ACB-affiliated, or affiliated with neither organization, the help and support I want to provide is open to all. On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Desiree and all, > Do you think it would be appropriate to invite folks on the ACB lists > to join if they want? I'm assuming this is a nonpartisan list as far > as blindness organizations are concerned, right? I'm temporarily > subscribed to several ACB lists in order to post my survey on them, > so I can forward the info if you want. > Arielle > > On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> hello all, >> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >> finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would >> like to join, simply send a blank message to >> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >> subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit >> from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >> teens and young adults. >> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >> Sincerely, >> Desiree >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:30:33 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:30:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are we limiting membership to a certain age group (those under 30, or students) or do you guys think it should be open to anyone with the understanding that older members can mentor younger ones? Arielle On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi Arielle, > Absolutely. I am no longer on any ACB lists, or I would have posted > the info there myself. But, whether or not a blind person is NFB or > ACB-affiliated, or affiliated with neither organization, the help and > support I want to provide is open to all. > > On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Desiree and all, >> Do you think it would be appropriate to invite folks on the ACB lists >> to join if they want? I'm assuming this is a nonpartisan list as far >> as blindness organizations are concerned, right? I'm temporarily >> subscribed to several ACB lists in order to post my survey on them, >> so I can forward the info if you want. >> Arielle >> >> On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> hello all, >>> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >>> finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would >>> like to join, simply send a blank message to >>> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >>> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >>> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >>> subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit >>> from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >>> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >>> teens and young adults. >>> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >>> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >>> Sincerely, >>> Desiree >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:33:59 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:33:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008c01ce0ef9$98374e50$c8a5eaf0$@gmail.com> Desiree, Wonderful! I will pass the announcement along to the Maryland student division! Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:15 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! hello all, As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to join, simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are teens and young adults. If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at turtlepower17 at gmail.com. Sincerely, Desiree _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:42:26 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:42:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think it would make the most sense to limit it by age. Of course, there's always the possibility that someone would lie about their age, but that's just a risk you have to take when running any group. However, I'm open to opinions and suggestions. Also, for those who are interested, I'll paste the description of the group below, so that you have a bit of a more in-depth description of what it's all about. Keep in mind that the rules file that will be sent out once you've been approved for membership will go into more detail as well. This group was created so that blind or visually impaired adolescents and young adults may have a safe place to discuss issues such as relationships and dating, family problems, socializing and fitting in, and stress, as they relate to blindness. If anyone would like me to add more details to the description, I can do that, but that's just what's viewable to anyone who happens to look it up in the Yahoogroups directory. On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Are we limiting membership to a certain age group (those under 30, or > students) or do you guys think it should be open to anyone with the > understanding that older members can mentor younger ones? > Arielle > > On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi Arielle, >> Absolutely. I am no longer on any ACB lists, or I would have posted >> the info there myself. But, whether or not a blind person is NFB or >> ACB-affiliated, or affiliated with neither organization, the help and >> support I want to provide is open to all. >> >> On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Desiree and all, >>> Do you think it would be appropriate to invite folks on the ACB lists >>> to join if they want? I'm assuming this is a nonpartisan list as far >>> as blindness organizations are concerned, right? I'm temporarily >>> subscribed to several ACB lists in order to post my survey on them, >>> so I can forward the info if you want. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> hello all, >>>> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >>>> finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would >>>> like to join, simply send a blank message to >>>> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >>>> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >>>> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >>>> subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit >>>> from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >>>> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >>>> teens and young adults. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >>>> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Desiree >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 00:12:23 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:12:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09B83D75A5A64711B42D303981FA5E23@OwnerPC> Desiree, I think it should be limited by age too. I'd say 35 may be a good cut off. This is still young enough to include young couples or some non traditional students. But not old enough to have totally separate cultures that we may have dated in. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! I think it would make the most sense to limit it by age. Of course, there's always the possibility that someone would lie about their age, but that's just a risk you have to take when running any group. However, I'm open to opinions and suggestions. Also, for those who are interested, I'll paste the description of the group below, so that you have a bit of a more in-depth description of what it's all about. Keep in mind that the rules file that will be sent out once you've been approved for membership will go into more detail as well. This group was created so that blind or visually impaired adolescents and young adults may have a safe place to discuss issues such as relationships and dating, family problems, socializing and fitting in, and stress, as they relate to blindness. If anyone would like me to add more details to the description, I can do that, but that's just what's viewable to anyone who happens to look it up in the Yahoogroups directory. On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Are we limiting membership to a certain age group (those under 30, or > students) or do you guys think it should be open to anyone with the > understanding that older members can mentor younger ones? > Arielle > > On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi Arielle, >> Absolutely. I am no longer on any ACB lists, or I would have posted >> the info there myself. But, whether or not a blind person is NFB or >> ACB-affiliated, or affiliated with neither organization, the help and >> support I want to provide is open to all. >> >> On 2/19/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Desiree and all, >>> Do you think it would be appropriate to invite folks on the ACB lists >>> to join if they want? I'm assuming this is a nonpartisan list as far >>> as blindness organizations are concerned, right? I'm temporarily >>> subscribed to several ACB lists in order to post my survey on them, >>> so I can forward the info if you want. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/19/13, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> hello all, >>>> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >>>> finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would >>>> like to join, simply send a blank message to >>>> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >>>> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >>>> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >>>> subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit >>>> from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >>>> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >>>> teens and young adults. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >>>> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Desiree >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From zerone1683 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:05:01 2013 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:05:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that has been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv being the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. Just a thought. Regards, C.C. Alan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! hello all, As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to join, simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are teens and young adults. If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at turtlepower17 at gmail.com. Sincerely, Desiree _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:14:32 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:14:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> Message-ID: Hi, As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to the group discussions. On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that > has > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv being > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. > Just a thought. > > Regards, > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > hello all, > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to > join, > simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > teens > and young adults. > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > Sincerely, > Desiree > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:34:38 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:34:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How do you post to that new mailing list? Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Hi, As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to the group discussions. On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that > has > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv being > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. > Just a thought. > > Regards, > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > hello all, > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to > join, > simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > teens > and young adults. > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > Sincerely, > Desiree > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.c om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:43:01 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:43:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Send your message to the following address: blind-social-talk at yahoogroups.com. Let me know if I can help you with anything else. On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: > How do you post to that new mailing list? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Hi, > As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the > list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take > that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're > probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a > year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to > the group discussions. > > On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >> Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv > that >> has >> been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv > being >> the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >> Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate > to >> employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >> properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >> Just a thought. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> >> hello all, >> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to > finally >> make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to >> join, >> simply send a blank message to > blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon > subscribing. >> If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, > please >> don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >> teens >> and young adults. >> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >> Sincerely, >> Desiree >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.c > om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:48:17 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:48:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8085CA79EE294969A1F6E416B3C58E57@OwnerPC> Can I help you moderate It? Thanks, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Send your message to the following address: blind-social-talk at yahoogroups.com. Let me know if I can help you with anything else. On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: > How do you post to that new mailing list? > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Hi, > As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the > list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take > that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're > probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a > year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to > the group discussions. > > On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >> Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv > that >> has >> been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv > being >> the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >> Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate > to >> employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >> properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >> Just a thought. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> >> hello all, >> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to > finally >> make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to >> join, >> simply send a blank message to > blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon > subscribing. >> If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, > please >> don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >> teens >> and young adults. >> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >> Sincerely, >> Desiree >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.c > om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 01:53:19 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:53:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> Message-ID: <840DBCDD56704B1689D86574B22D397E@OwnerPC> Desiree, Okay 30; but yes do grandfather people in. I'd soon age out of the group. Young adults typically means young 30s. Often people end college at age 24 or 25 now, and then seriously date and then engage later. For instance, my brother got engaged after college; he dated several years before getting engaged and the wedding was three years ago. My brother is almost 35. So people in their late 20s and thirtys will definitely contribute since in American culture this is when the serious dating and picking a mate for life begins and when people get employment. Anyway, thanks for starting the list and I'm glad you will grandfather older members continued status. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Hi, As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to the group discussions. On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that > has > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv > being > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. > Just a thought. > > Regards, > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > hello all, > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to > join, > simply send a blank message to > blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon > subscribing. > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, > please > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > teens > and young adults. > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > Sincerely, > Desiree > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 01:57:30 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:57:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: <8085CA79EE294969A1F6E416B3C58E57@OwnerPC> References: <8085CA79EE294969A1F6E416B3C58E57@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Sorry, but I am not looking for other moderators at this time. Depending on how many members we get, I may need more help, but as it stands right now, I would prefer to handle the task myself. On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Can I help you moderate It? > Thanks, > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:43 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Send your message to the following address: > blind-social-talk at yahoogroups.com. > Let me know if I can help you with anything else. > > On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> How do you post to that new mailing list? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:15 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> >> Hi, >> As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the >> list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take >> that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're >> probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a >> year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to >> the group discussions. >> >> On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >>> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >>> Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv >> that >>> has >>> been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv >> being >>> the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >>> Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate >> to >>> employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >>> properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >>> Just a thought. >>> >>> Regards, >>> C.C. Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >>> Oudinot >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >>> >>> hello all, >>> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >> finally >>> make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like > to >>> join, >>> simply send a blank message to >> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >>> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >>> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >> subscribing. >>> If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, >> please >>> don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >>> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for > are >>> teens >>> and young adults. >>> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >>> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >>> Sincerely, >>> Desiree >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.c >> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 02:01:45 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:01:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: <840DBCDD56704B1689D86574B22D397E@OwnerPC> References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> <840DBCDD56704B1689D86574B22D397E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, None of this is set in stone. The list is still getting off the ground. If more members chime in and tell me they would like the age restriction raised a bit, I can do that. However, 35 is my limit. I see where you're coming from, and if someone applies for membership, and tells me they're 32, but presents a fairly good case for why they feel they belong on the list, I will take it into consideration. Basically, with a list like this, nothing can really be applied straight across the board. There are a lot of variables to consider. On 2/19/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Desiree, > Okay 30; but yes do grandfather people in. > I'd soon age out of the group. Young adults typically means young 30s. > Often people end college at age 24 or 25 now, > and then seriously date and then engage later. For instance, my brother got > > engaged after college; he dated several years before getting engaged and the > > wedding was three years ago. My brother is > almost 35. So people in their late 20s and thirtys will definitely > contribute since in American culture this is when the serious dating and > picking a mate for life begins and when people get employment. > > Anyway, thanks for starting the list and I'm glad you will grandfather older > > members continued status. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Hi, > As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the > list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take > that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're > probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a > year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to > the group discussions. > > On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >> Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that >> has >> been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv >> being >> the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >> Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to >> employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >> properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >> Just a thought. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> >> hello all, >> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally >> make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to >> join, >> simply send a blank message to >> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >> subscribing. >> If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, >> please >> don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >> teens >> and young adults. >> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >> Sincerely, >> Desiree >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 02:05:41 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:05:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40078C2B45454CD6B0D40D8E04B0DC8B@OwnerPC> Desiree, Okay. Thanks, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Sorry, but I am not looking for other moderators at this time. Depending on how many members we get, I may need more help, but as it stands right now, I would prefer to handle the task myself. On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Can I help you moderate It? > Thanks, > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:43 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Send your message to the following address: > blind-social-talk at yahoogroups.com. > Let me know if I can help you with anything else. > > On 2/19/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> How do you post to that new mailing list? >> Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> Oudinot >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:15 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> >> Hi, >> As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the >> list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take >> that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're >> probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a >> year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to >> the group discussions. >> >> On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >>> Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >>> Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv >> that >>> has >>> been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv >> being >>> the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >>> Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate >> to >>> employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >>> properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >>> Just a thought. >>> >>> Regards, >>> C.C. Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >>> Oudinot >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >>> >>> hello all, >>> As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >> finally >>> make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like > to >>> join, >>> simply send a blank message to >> blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >>> You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >>> description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >> subscribing. >>> If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, >> please >>> don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >>> Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for > are >>> teens >>> and young adults. >>> If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >>> turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >>> Sincerely, >>> Desiree >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.c >> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Feb 20 02:56:10 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:56:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> Message-ID: Two things -- some list software doesn't allow spaces in the name, although some may. Secondly, while nfb does not have a monopoly or copyright on the "talk" word, a number of our lists use it, blind talk, nfb talk, etc., and have for many years. It might be clearer if you didn't use it so there was no confusion as to the source/sponsor of list. I do think the list is a good idea -- and I am glad to see you guys do this, but it is probably better if the list is separate from our official lists. David Andrews, List Owner At 12:47 AM 2/19/2013, you wrote: >Ok, I think I'll go with Blind Social Talk. It's general enough >without being too broad, but also states its purpose clearly. The only >thing I have to do now is create a file for the rules that will be >sent out on a monthly basis, then I'll create the group itself, since >that only takes a minute to do. >there's one more thing I would like some opinions on, however. When a >person joins the list, I will approve them, as I don't trust the >system of just having Yahoo automatically approve everyone. I've seen >what happens when groups get overrun by spammers. So, since this group >is aimed at a target audience, and sensitive information is going to >be shared, do you think it would be sensible for me to ask that each >person write a brief statement about themselves before they're >approved to join, just so I can get a feel for their motivations for >joining, and their age? I don't want to seem overly paranoid, but the >last thing we need is a bunch of trolls or people who are up to no >good. No offense to anyone on this list, as I highly doubt such people >are here to join, but I'm hoping that the word is spread beyond this >list, and that others will hear of it. I'm also wondering where else I >might spread the word, so that I can reach more people who might >benefit. I thought about maybe creating a board topic on the zone BBS, >but I'm a little weary about that, simply because, well, not everyone >on that site is exactly trustworthy. Any thoughts would be >appreciated. > >On 2/19/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > > i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown > > into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this > > because it isn't in the name of the list. > > > > feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. > > > > Mauricio > > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > > wrote: > > > >> Arielle, > >> > >> I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. > >> Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >> Public Relations Committee > >> Maryland Association of Blind Students > >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle > >> Silverman > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with > >> other blind folks > >> > >> Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or > >> blind-relationships all sound fine to me. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >>> Ashley and Mauricio, > >>> > >>> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically > >>> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the > >>> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a > >>> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a > >>> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > >>> Public Relations Committee > >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students > >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio > >>> Almeida > >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > >>> with other blind folks > >>> > >>> well said. > >>> noone is putting anyone down here. > >>> go for the list:) > >>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Carley, > >>>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list > >>> devoted to only social issues is better. > >>>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating > >>>> on > >>> here, but it cannot get too far off track. > >>>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private > >>>> conversations > >>> there. > >>>> Ashley > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis > >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > >>>> with other blind folks > >>>> > >>>> Hi, List, > >>>> > >>>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other > >>>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? > >>>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like > >>>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally > >>>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via > >>>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm > >>>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking > >>>> about emotional crises, people! > >>>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a > >>>> given, anyway? > >>>> Car, but > >>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. > >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > >>>>> with other blind folks > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I > >>>>> guess I'd better speak up. > >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it > >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon > >>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such > >>>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right > >>>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out > >>>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker > >>>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm > >>>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want > >>>>> any > >>> trouble. > >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up > >>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical > >>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, > >>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. > >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated > >>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel > >>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended > >>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with > >>>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me > >>>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy > >>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. > >>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: > >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. > >>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I > >>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly > >>>>>>> Mihalakis > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM > >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues > >>>>>>> with other blind folks > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or > >>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM > >>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on > >>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors > >>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if > >>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place > >>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that > >>>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties > >>>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be > >>>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the > >>>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd > >>>>>>>> have > >>> to check). > >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they > >>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a > >>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a > >>>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place > >>>>>>>> to obtain information. > >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? > >>>>>>>> Arielle From codyjbair at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 05:25:40 2013 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:25:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1361337940.63103.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Zack, With the help of your friend are you able to complete the assignments independently with jaws or do you need assistants from a sighted reader? Thanks, Cody --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer wrote: > From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 3:16 PM > I'm using access for a computer class > right now. I am having to seek additional help from a friend > that knows what she's doing! I will forward her your email, > and perhaps she will be able to help you as well! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Feb 18, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Cody Bair > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > Have any of you had any luck using access with JAWS. So > far it seems to be pritty inaccessible to me. > > Thanks, > > Cody > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com > From zdreicer at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 05:28:36 2013 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:28:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access In-Reply-To: <1361337940.63103.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1361337940.63103.YahooMailClassic@web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am able to complete them without the sighted teacher n co-teacher. Sent from my iPhone using voiceOver On Feb 19, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Cody Bair wrote: > Zack, > With the help of your friend are you able to complete the assignments independently with jaws or do you need assistants from a sighted reader? > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer wrote: > >> From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office Access >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 3:16 PM >> I'm using access for a computer class >> right now. I am having to seek additional help from a friend >> that knows what she's doing! I will forward her your email, >> and perhaps she will be able to help you as well! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Feb 18, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Cody Bair >> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> Have any of you had any luck using access with JAWS. So >> far it seems to be pritty inaccessible to me. >>> Thanks, >>> Cody >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Feb 20 13:01:35 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:01:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Synderro Maps for the PC Message-ID: Hi All, I’m considering buying the Synderro maps for the PC 2012, because you can browse virtually and know what’s around, your exact route, etc before you go out and about. Have any of you used these maps to gain information about the layout of a certain place or area? Are they effective? Are there other alternative, fully accessible maps that do the same thing? These maps sound like the accessible version of google maps. Ian From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Feb 20 13:07:41 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:07:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130220050539.01eb9e20@comcast.net> Do we need an age restriction? Will such an imposition add in a meaningful way, to List content? Students are all ages, remember? What do others think of this?/19/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the >list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take >that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're >probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a >year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to >the group discussions. > >On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: > > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? > > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that > > has > > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv being > > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. > > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to > > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar > > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. > > Just a thought. > > > > Regards, > > C.C. Alan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > > Oudinot > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > > > hello all, > > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally > > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to > > join, > > simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. > > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please > > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > > teens > > and young adults. > > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > > Sincerely, > > Desiree > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From JLester8462 at pccua.edu Wed Feb 20 13:19:45 2013 From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:19:45 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130220050539.01eb9e20@comcast.net> References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> , <7.0.1.0.2.20130220050539.01eb9e20@comcast.net> Message-ID: I thought we wanted professionals to weigh in on our topics as well, so wouldn't that mean having older people, because most professionals are older? Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Carly Mihalakis [carlymih at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! Do we need an age restriction? Will such an imposition add in a meaningful way, to List content? Students are all ages, remember? What do others think of this?/19/2013, you wrote: >Hi, >As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the >list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take >that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're >probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a >year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to >the group discussions. > >On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: > > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? > > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv that > > has > > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv being > > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. > > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to > > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar > > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. > > Just a thought. > > > > Regards, > > C.C. Alan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree > > Oudinot > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > > > hello all, > > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to finally > > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to > > join, > > simply send a blank message to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. > > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief > > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon subscribing. > > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, please > > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. > > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are > > teens > > and young adults. > > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at > > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. > > Sincerely, > > Desiree > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Feb 20 13:31:52 2013 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:31:52 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with other blind folks In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20130218133836.01d63010@comcast.net> <000301ce0e2a$49fdd3f0$ddf97bd0$@centurylink.net> <6CF4208B9D5E4721BFF7B151D1B9B819@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20130218192757.01dcb0d8@comcast.net> <9899E622-CBFD-4484-A0B4-587B04BC12E7@gmail.com> <005401ce0e5b$5bec03d0$13c40b70$@gmail.com> <005c01ce0e5c$ce0a3a80$6a1eaf80$@gmail.com> <76AF5E72-CA4B-47CF-8D9F-EE58E7B6A143@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130220052927.01cbc610@comcast.net> Good morning, Mauricio, At a risk of belaboring this point, NO age restriction!! Isn't a point of a List to share diverse exeriences? How can this be achieved if we arbitrarily shut ouit people's experiences? Carwrote: >Two things -- some list software doesn't allow spaces in the name, >although some may. Secondly, while nfb does not have a monopoly or >copyright on the "talk" word, a number of our lists use it, blind >talk, nfb talk, etc., and have for many years. It might be clearer >if you didn't use it so there was no confusion as to the >source/sponsor of list. > >I do think the list is a good idea -- and I am glad to see you guys >do this, but it is probably better if the list is separate from our >official lists. > >David Andrews, List Owner > > > >At 12:47 AM 2/19/2013, you wrote: >>Ok, I think I'll go with Blind Social Talk. It's general enough >>without being too broad, but also states its purpose clearly. The only >>thing I have to do now is create a file for the rules that will be >>sent out on a monthly basis, then I'll create the group itself, since >>that only takes a minute to do. >>there's one more thing I would like some opinions on, however. When a >>person joins the list, I will approve them, as I don't trust the >>system of just having Yahoo automatically approve everyone. I've seen >>what happens when groups get overrun by spammers. So, since this group >>is aimed at a target audience, and sensitive information is going to >>be shared, do you think it would be sensible for me to ask that each >>person write a brief statement about themselves before they're >>approved to join, just so I can get a feel for their motivations for >>joining, and their age? I don't want to seem overly paranoid, but the >>last thing we need is a bunch of trolls or people who are up to no >>good. No offense to anyone on this list, as I highly doubt such people >>are here to join, but I'm hoping that the word is spread beyond this >>list, and that others will hear of it. I'm also wondering where else I >>might spread the word, so that I can reach more people who might >>benefit. I thought about maybe creating a board topic on the zone BBS, >>but I'm a little weary about that, simply because, well, not everyone >>on that site is exactly trustworthy. Any thoughts would be >>appreciated. >> >>On 2/19/13, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> > i'd simply go for blind social because it allows more things to be thrown >> > into discussion and people won't go like hmmm i can't talk about this >> > because it isn't in the name of the list. >> > >> > feel free to cc me on emails if you guys do take this off list. >> > >> > Mauricio >> > On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Arielle, >> >> >> >> I'm not Desiree, but I personally like Blind-Social or Blind-Social-Talk. >> >> Thoughts? Maybe at this point we should take this discussion off-list... >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> >> Public Relations Committee >> >> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle >> >> Silverman >> >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues with >> >> other blind folks >> >> >> >> Thanks Desiree for taking charge! Blind-social, blind-social-talk or >> >> blind-relationships all sound fine to me. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 2/18/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> >>> Ashley and Mauricio, >> >>> >> >>> I agree. We have to be careful here, as the list is publically >> >>> archived and it could be considered an "official" list of the >> >>> Federation; after all, it is the official list of NABS. Conversely,a >> >>> list like the one Desiree and others are talking about would be a >> >>> place where these topics can be discussed more freely. >> >>> >> >>> Chris >> >>> >> >>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> >>> Public Relations Committee >> >>> Maryland Association of Blind Students >> >>> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio >> >>> Almeida >> >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:17 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> >>> with other blind folks >> >>> >> >>> well said. >> >>> noone is putting anyone down here. >> >>> go for the list:) >> >>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Carley, >> >>>> We were not putting him down. We were just saying that another list >> >>> devoted to only social issues is better. >> >>>> David already spoke his mind and said we can sometimes discuss dating >> >>>> on >> >>> here, but it cannot get too far off track. >> >>>> I say go for creating the list and we can have more private >> >>>> conversations >> >>> there. >> >>>> Ashley >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:55 PM >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> >>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> >>>> with other blind folks >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi, List, >> >>>> >> >>>> Are we not ALL blind students? Isn't a potential YAHOO or other >> >>>> social forum, positioned for each and every one of our enrichment? >> >>>> Where is a sense of unity? Why are people being made to feel like >> >>>> some pariah, with some kind of disease, simply for being emotionally >> >>>> unstable? Indeed, People are well aware of how advice delivered via >> >>>> an On-line support forum, may be subject to thinking twice. I'm >> >>>> convinced of people's being well aware of this. We are talking >> >>>> about emotional crises, people! >> >>>> Is not investing too much in any of the Internet's resources not a >> >>>> given, anyway? >> >>>> Car, but >> >>>>> I think the list should be for support, not primarily for therapy. >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:11 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> >>>>> with other blind folks >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>> Since I was the person who initially raised this suggestion, I >> >>>>> guess I'd better speak up. >> >>>>> While I do think this is a great idea, and would like to see it >> >>>>> happen, I'm not sure I'm the right person to even suggest it. Pardon >> >>>>> the pun, but I'm not so sure having the blind lead the blind is such >> >>>>> a good idea. To cut to the point, I'm not sure if it would be right >> >>>>> of me to moderate such a list when I know I would use it to air out >> >>>>> some of my own problems. I'm also not a psychologist, social worker >> >>>>> or any other mental health worker. I only bring this up because I'm >> >>>>> not sure how formal this group would have to be, and I don't want >> >>>>> any >> >>> trouble. >> >>>>> My only other hang-up is that I'm not very good at thinking up >> >>>>> clever names, and I'm drawing a blank as to what this hypothetical >> >>>>> list should be called. I'm sure others may have some suggestions, >> >>>>> though, so that's just a minor inconvenience. >> >>>>> So, what do you all think? Would you want the list to be moderated >> >>>>> and ran by a trained mental health worker? Would you feel >> >>>>> uncomfortable with a moderator who used the list for its intended >> >>>>> purpose, rather than just sitting in the background and dealing with >> >>>>> problems, both tech-related and within the list's members? Let me >> >>>>> know, and I'll think about it some more. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 2/18/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>>>> I can moderate, but would prefer someone who is more tech-savvy >> >>>>>> than I to actually set up the list initially. >> >>>>>> Arielle >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 2/18/13, Loren Wakefield wrote: >> >>>>>>> It would be a great idea. I don't know how those groups work. >> >>>>>>> But I suppose one could find out. However, I am not sure that I >> >>>>>>> would have the time to be its moderator. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly >> >>>>>>> Mihalakis >> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:40 PM >> >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Forum for discussing social/emotional issues >> >>>>>>> with other blind folks >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Great idea! Unfortunately, i am not qualified to set up, or >> >>>>>>> moderate the thing, although it is a great idea.At 01:31 PM >> >>>>>>> 2/18/2013, Arielle Silverman >> >>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>> A while back some of us talked about creating a list on >> >>>>>>>> YahooGroups or GoogleGroups where blind students and mentors >> >>>>>>>> could talk about sexuality and social issues. I am wondering if >> >>>>>>>> we should go ahead and create this list to be a separate place >> >>>>>>>> from NABS-L and one where the topic is a bit more relaxed so that >> >>>>>>>> people could post about relationship issues, family difficulties >> >>>>>>>> etc. If the list is hosted on YahooGroups, the archives will be >> >>>>>>>> private so no one who is not subscribed will be able to read the >> >>>>>>>> content of the list (and GoogleGroups might be that way too; I'd >> >>>>>>>> have >> >>> to check). >> >>>>>>>> The NFB lists tend to be a little strict about topic since they >> >>>>>>>> are publicly archived and since they are intended to be about a >> >>>>>>>> very specific topic. However that doesn't mean we can't create a >> >>>>>>>> separate list that is more of a support group rather than a place >> >>>>>>>> to obtain information. >> >>>>>>>> Does someone want to go ahead and do this? >> >>>>>>>> Arielle > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed Feb 20 16:34:36 2013 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:34:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Synderro Maps for the PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use the American Printing House Talking Maps which use the Sendero maps. I'm not sure what you are looking at when you refer to the Sendero maps, but I thought they were the same product now. I find them very useful. Sometimes the handling of streets crossing freeways is a bit confusing at times, but in general, they are very helpful. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:01:35 -0500, Ian Perrault wrote: > Hi All, >Im considering buying the Synderro maps for the PC 2012, because you can browse virtually and know whats around, your exact route, etc before you go out and about. Have any of you used these maps to gain information about the layout of a certain place or area? Are they effective? Are there other alternative, fully accessible maps that do the same thing? These maps sound like the accessible version of google maps. >Ian >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 20:30:45 2013 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:30:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! In-Reply-To: References: <000301ce0f06$506c2c50$f14484f0$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20130220050539.01eb9e20@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi, Let me try to clarify. I believe it would be ok to have a few professionals on the list. I haven't decided just how many yet, but they should be able to add a bit of balance if things get out of hand, or if none of the younger mentors have any answers for a particular problem is submitted. But, yes, in general, I believe there has to be an age restriction. What we don't want is a list that has mostly professionals and not enough young people. The whole point of this list is that they have a nonthreatening environment in which to discuss their problems. Having too many professionals, or older people in general, could upset this balance. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that, but you've all been there, you all know how it feels to want to open up and share things with your peers, but clam up the second anyone with the title of "responsible adult" steps in. Yes, at times it may be childish, even foolish, but at other times it's perfectly healthy, and that's what I'm striving for here. It is a delicate balance, with no hard and fast rules. We will just have to see how it plays out. I'm sorry I can't provide a more definitive answer at this point, but I hope that clarifies my position a bit. One other thing: I have a number of pending memberships, but the people who have sent them have not submitted their intros to me yet. If any of you who haven't are on this list, remember, you only have 48 hours from the time you've sent your subscription request to do so before your membership request is rejected. This helps to eliminate spammers, and I will stand firm on this point. If you would like to join the list, send a message with the word subscribe in the subject line and nothing else to blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. Thanks, Desiree On 2/20/13, Joshua Lester wrote: > I thought we wanted professionals to weigh in on our topics as well, so > wouldn't that mean having older people, because most professionals are > older? > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Carly Mihalakis > [carlymih at comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:07 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! > > Do we need an age restriction? Will such an imposition add in a > meaningful way, to List content? Students are all ages, remember? > What do others think of this?/19/2013, you wrote: >>Hi, >>As has been said, I think the cutoff age I'm going to allow on the >>list is 30. If more people respond and want me to raise it, I'll take >>that into consideration. However, if you join the list at 29, you're >>probably going to be grandfathered in. I won't kick a person off a >>year after they join, particularly if they offer valuable insights to >>the group discussions. >> >>On 2/19/13, Chun Chao wrote: >> > Can young to mid-aged adults also join? >> > Reason for asking is because there has been another NFBnet listserv >> > that >> > has >> > been having similar email threads on social issues; one such listserv >> > being >> > the Computer Science list [NFBCS]. >> > Even though the social issues discussed on NFBCS more or less relate to >> > employment, I find that the discussions on the thread have similar >> > properties to the discussions that were discussed on NABS-L. >> > Just a thought. >> > >> > Regards, >> > C.C. Alan >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree >> > Oudinot >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:15 PM >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Subject: [nabs-l] the new Blind Social Talk list has been created! >> > >> > hello all, >> > As promised, the Blind Social Talk list is here. I am excited to >> > finally >> > make this much-needed discussion group a reality. If you would like to >> > join, >> > simply send a blank message to >> > blind-social-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. >> > You will get a welcoming message that asks you to provide a brief >> > description of yourself and why you wish to join the list upon >> > subscribing. >> > If you know others outside this list who would benefit from joining, >> > please >> > don't hesitate to direct them to this new group. >> > Also remember that the target audience we're primarily looking for are >> > teens >> > and young adults. >> > If you have any questions or concerns, please write me off-list at >> > turtlepower17 at gmail.com. >> > Sincerely, >> > Desiree >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 20:40:16 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:40:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Participants Needed for Online Research Studies Message-ID: Hi all, We're still looking for more people to complete our online research studies (see details below). Please note that the raffle prize for participation has been increased; instead of raffling off one $50 gift certificate, we will be raffling off three $100 gift certificates to a merchant of your choice: Amazon.com, Itunes.com, Olive Garden Restaurant or AMC Theaters. Thanks for your help! Hi all, My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a doctoral student in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of Colorado. My colleagues and I would appreciate your help with completing a series of brief online studies. We are looking for legally blind adults to complete three short studies: the first asking about your personal life experiences, the second involving a set of math problems, and the third involving answering some survey questions. The studies are all on one website and will take no more than 45 minutes to complete in total. In appreciation of your time, you will have the opportunity to enter a raffle drawing to win one of three $100 gift certificates to a merchant of your choice. All of your responses in the study will be anonymous and confidential. To begin please go to: http://ucsas.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_eaLf4NKHUvEc2u9 Thank you as always for your assistance. Best, Arielle Silverman, M.A. Doctoral Candidate, Social Psychology Department of Psychology and Neuroscience 345 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0345 arielle.silverman at colorado.edu From dandrews at visi.com Thu Feb 21 01:39:32 2013 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:39:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [duxnews] Announcing Perky Duck 11.2 Message-ID: > >Perky Duck 11.2 replaces Perky Duck 11.1 which was announced just >last week. Perky Duck 11.1 had a bug in the installer which caused >an unforeseen conflict for those with DBT 11.1. > >Perky Duck 11.2 has been tested and does not have that issue. > >To download Perky Duck 11.2, please follow this link: > >http://www.duxburysystems.org/downloads/perky1102.msi > >Best regards, > >Anne Ronco >email: info at duxsys.com > >Duxbury Systems, Inc. >270 Littleton Road, #6; Westford, MA 01886-3523 USA >TEL: + 978-692-3000 FAX: + 978-692-7912 >Email (general): info at duxsys.com >Web site: http://www.DuxburySystems.com >Duxbury Systems, the first name in software for Braille - since 1975. > > > From codyjbair at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 08:25:50 2013 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:25:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair Message-ID: <1361435150.28458.YahooMailNeo@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> http://www.berliner-pflanzendoktor.de/wnv/s58c3h30xf8o2 From djackson at BISM.org Thu Feb 21 15:08:10 2013 From: djackson at BISM.org (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:08:10 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] BISM summer Youth Programs Message-ID: <664916DD3FF58F45BF6F434E6676E7FB02E1D1EE@BLINDEXCHANGE.BISM.com> Hello, list, We are currently preparing for our exciting summer training and employment programs at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland. If you are a high school student/recent grad or a middle school student, please see the attached flyers. Also, anyone interested in being a staff member/mentor in the summer programs, please visit www.bism.org/youth for information on applying. Best Regards, Dezman Jackson, M.A., NOMC, NCLB Rehabilitation Instructor - Orientation and Mobility Blind Industries and Services of Maryland 3345 Washington BLVD Baltimore, MD 21227 Phone: 410-737-2676 Fax: 410-737-2689 Toll Free: 1-888-322-4567 Email: djackson at bism.org BISM's purpose is to positively change people's attitudes about blindness. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Work to Independence 2013 tri-fold rev text.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 20720 bytes Desc: Work to Independence 2013 tri-fold rev text.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Independence 101 2013 tri-fold text rev.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 19684 bytes Desc: Independence 101 2013 tri-fold text rev.docx URL: From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us Thu Feb 21 15:32:55 2013 From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:32:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes Message-ID: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> Hello all, I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some online tips? Thank you, Greg Wocher -- Twitter name GWocher From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 16:31:51 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:31:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello all, > I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web > development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a > job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website > accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on > creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some > online tips? > > Thank you, > Greg Wocher > > -- > Twitter name GWocher > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 20:34:45 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:34:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: Hi Greg, Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to say will go through this time. There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well as provide examples. First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these sections delete the heading and ignore it. When you write the information under these headings, it is important to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank line between each section. Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: Education: The University of Dayton. 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. Degree Expected: May 2016. Colerain High School. 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever qualities you like in a similar manner. For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an officer position in a club or organization. Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say something like "May 2012-present." Example: Work Experience: Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same format. Volunteer Experience: Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. Assisted with... duties included... etc. Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite fit into the activities section. Fake example: Awards and Honors: Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These people should not be family. Example: References: Kaiti Shelton Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. Phone: (123)456-7890. Email: kaiti at email.com. It helps to list these references in order of who has known you longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: References: Available upon request. Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's something they always told me in high school but in reality employers would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one page resume with some important details removed for space. If you pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's not a big deal. This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >> Hello all, >> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web >> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a >> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >> online tips? >> >> Thank you, >> Greg Wocher >> >> -- >> Twitter name GWocher >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > -- Kaiti From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us Thu Feb 21 21:17:14 2013 From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:17:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: <51268EDA.7080903@gtwebdesign.us> Hello, Thanks for this. I was told to keep it at a page or less myself in the professional writing class I took at school a while ago. Do you seperate your info at the top from the rest of the resume with a line across the page? Greg Wocher Twitter name GWocher On 2/21/2013 3:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send > and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to > say will go through this time. > > There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you > how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which > sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to > get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well > as provide examples. > > First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the > font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font > sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between > 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the > resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this > should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. > Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, > Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. > > Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 > point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've > used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), > Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, > and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton > for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these > sections delete the heading and ignore it. > > When you write the information under these headings, it is important > to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct > sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, > but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will > be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to > you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be > left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank > line between each section. > > Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. > Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To > obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." > > Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their > addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received > your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most > recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: > Education: > The University of Dayton. > 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. > Degree Expected: May 2016. > Colerain High School. > 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. > > Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish > to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication > skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever > qualities you like in a similar manner. > > For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of > school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and > include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an > officer position in a club or organization. > > Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first > and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then > write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If > you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say > something like "May 2012-present." Example: > Work Experience: > Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. > Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. > > Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've > volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same > format. > Volunteer Experience: > Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. > Assisted with... duties included... etc. > > Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. > List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. > Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include > memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite > fit into the activities section. Fake example: > Awards and Honors: > Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. > Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. > Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. > Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. > Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. > > Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either > title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who > would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These > people should not be family. Example: > References: > Kaiti Shelton > Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. > Phone: (123)456-7890. > Email: kaiti at email.com. > It helps to list these references in order of who has known you > longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or > need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: > References: > Available upon request. > > Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's > something they always told me in high school but in reality employers > would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one > page resume with some important details removed for space. If you > pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's > not a big deal. > > This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. > > On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web >>> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a >>> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >>> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >>> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >>> online tips? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Greg Wocher >>> >>> -- >>> Twitter name GWocher >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > From drummer_grl_91 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 21:32:08 2013 From: drummer_grl_91 at yahoo.com (angela dehart) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:32:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] angela dehart Message-ID: <1361482328.34336.YahooMailNeo@web122905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> http://www.fontanerobenalmadena.es/pvxhcoy/z8yumd4qm23fr.xpks6703cb12wwx4sm57znh6fz From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:01:08 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:01:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: <7452EB34-79C6-4238-84D7-CAA2849DC5C6@gmail.com> Hi Greg and all, Kaiti had some great advice. I would like to add a bit of a different perspective. I respectfully disagree on the point of keeping the resume to one page. Everything I have read and heard from professionals is that less is more when it comes to resumes. Potential employers want to find the relevant info they are looking for quickly and easily. Everything I have found indicates that unless you are a long term professional with several jobs under your belt, you need to keep the resume to one page. This can be a challenge but it is very doable. This means that you cut out everything that isn't absolutely necessary. In my opinion, the absolutely necessary info you must include are your contact info, your education, work/volunteer/professional experiences, and any professional memberships. After that, if you have room you can go into honors and awards. To save you the space from creating separate headings, you can combine work and volunteer experiences into one heading called "Experience." Some people like to include an objective on the resume but it seems like a waste of space to me. It is often a vague statement that lacks meaning and you will cover this in your cover letter anyway. Things like personality traits belong in the cover letter as well. I would also leave your references off of the resume. If your employer wants them, you can submit a separate reference sheet. This gives you more space on the actual resume. I like Kaiti's suggestions on how to format your headings/text. The goal is clear and concise. Keep it simple and clear. Have a few friends/mentors look it over when you're done. Ask them to help you eliminate any fluff you can get rid of. Hope this helps. Best of luck with your position. -Greg On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send > and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to > say will go through this time. > > There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you > how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which > sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to > get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well > as provide examples. > > First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the > font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font > sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between > 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the > resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this > should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. > Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, > Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. > > Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 > point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've > used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), > Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, > and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton > for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these > sections delete the heading and ignore it. > > When you write the information under these headings, it is important > to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct > sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, > but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will > be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to > you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be > left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank > line between each section. > > Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. > Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To > obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." > > Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their > addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received > your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most > recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: > Education: > The University of Dayton. > 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. > Degree Expected: May 2016. > Colerain High School. > 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. > > Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish > to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication > skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever > qualities you like in a similar manner. > > For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of > school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and > include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an > officer position in a club or organization. > > Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first > and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then > write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If > you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say > something like "May 2012-present." Example: > Work Experience: > Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. > Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. > > Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've > volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same > format. > Volunteer Experience: > Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. > Assisted with... duties included... etc. > > Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. > List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. > Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include > memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite > fit into the activities section. Fake example: > Awards and Honors: > Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. > Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. > Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. > Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. > Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. > > Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either > title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who > would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These > people should not be family. Example: > References: > Kaiti Shelton > Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. > Phone: (123)456-7890. > Email: kaiti at email.com. > It helps to list these references in order of who has known you > longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or > need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: > References: > Available upon request. > > Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's > something they always told me in high school but in reality employers > would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one > page resume with some important details removed for space. If you > pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's > not a big deal. > > This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. > > On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web >>> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a >>> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >>> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >>> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >>> online tips? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Greg Wocher >>> >>> -- >>> Twitter name GWocher >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 21 22:02:09 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:02:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair In-Reply-To: <1361435150.28458.YahooMailNeo@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1361435150.28458.YahooMailNeo@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50B8D16CFFF843FEB870783AEB201B44@OwnerPC> Yikes, we sure are getting the ends of trojans; second link I've seen today. -----Original Message----- From: Cody Bair Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:25 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; toreylenoch ; nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org ; faithpenn ; bbatron ; Susan.Burleigh at state.co.us ; finloch ; tkw76 Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair http://www.berliner-pflanzendoktor.de/wnv/s58c3h30xf8o2 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:11:01 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:11:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair In-Reply-To: <50B8D16CFFF843FEB870783AEB201B44@OwnerPC> References: <1361435150.28458.YahooMailNeo@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <50B8D16CFFF843FEB870783AEB201B44@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <009001ce1080$5647afc0$02d70f40$@gmail.com> Yeah, looks like we've got some Gmail accounts getting hacked once again. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:02 PM To: Cody Bair; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cody Bair Yikes, we sure are getting the ends of trojans; second link I've seen today. -----Original Message----- From: Cody Bair Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:25 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; toreylenoch ; nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org ; faithpenn ; bbatron ; Susan.Burleigh at state.co.us ; finloch ; tkw76 Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair http://www.berliner-pflanzendoktor.de/wnv/s58c3h30xf8o2 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From maurice.mines at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:12:49 2013 From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:12:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair In-Reply-To: <50B8D16CFFF843FEB870783AEB201B44@OwnerPC> References: <1361435150.28458.YahooMailNeo@web125204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <50B8D16CFFF843FEB870783AEB201B44@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7ED7FC55-BEDD-455E-A9F3-AE97A2BB9CA9@gmail.com> This is somewhat more than a need to email, fortunately I'm actually using a Mac so this problem isn't going to be as pronounced as it could have been. Just goes to show you, always be watchful of your email? Just my two cents worth while getting through some internship email this afternoon. PS I'm going to continue all the link of the video that I'm involved in and that link is not a Trojan in any way shape or form. Have a good one everybody. On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:02 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Yikes, we sure are getting the ends of trojans; second link I've seen today. > > -----Original Message----- From: Cody Bair > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:25 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; toreylenoch ; nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org ; faithpenn ; bbatron ; Susan.Burleigh at state.co.us ; finloch ; tkw76 > Subject: [nabs-l] Cody Bair > > http://www.berliner-pflanzendoktor.de/wnv/s58c3h30xf8o2 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com From andrewjedg at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:18:56 2013 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:18:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked Message-ID: Hi all I seen some emails that have been going through here. it looks like some people have been hacked. today i just saw one from an angela If you find that your email account is been hacked please reset or change your password. That is what i reckommend. I j ust wondered if anybody else saw the message from an angela with the web site. don't open that aud web site those suspisious things most likely have a virous. I don't mean to be paranoied but i just wanted to make sure that person knows that they have been hacked i know it is because there is no subject line and i don't open emails with no subject. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:23:19 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:23:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andrew, You are right to not open emails without a subject line, i do the same. I didn't see one from Angela, but I did see one from a Cody looking like a fishing scam with no subject and a random link. Thank God Gmail allows me to view the first few characters of the message before I actually open the email. I agree! If you have had an email you didn't send go through the list. Especially since we're all students here who need our computers, Apple Devices, and other equipment for school, please do what you can to fix the situation so the virus or whatever doesn't spread across the list. On 2/21/13, Andrew wrote: > Hi all > > I seen some emails that have been going through here. it looks like > some people have been hacked. today i just saw one from an angela If > you find that your email account is been hacked please reset or change > your password. That is what i reckommend. > > I j ust wondered if anybody else saw the message from an angela with > the web site. don't open that aud web site those suspisious things > most likely have a virous. > > I don't mean to be paranoied but i just wanted to make sure that > person knows that they have been hacked i know it is because there is > no subject line and i don't open emails with no subject. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From andrewjedg at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:26:48 2013 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:26:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i would advise you to run a viro us scan of your computers and lets all do what we can to deal with these viro us so they don't get our computers On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > You are right to not open emails without a subject line, i do the > same. I didn't see one from Angela, but I did see one from a Cody > looking like a fishing scam with no subject and a random link. Thank > God Gmail allows me to view the first few characters of the message > before I actually open the email. > > I agree! If you have had an email you didn't send go through the > list. Especially since we're all students here who need our > computers, Apple Devices, and other equipment for school, please do > what you can to fix the situation so the virus or whatever doesn't > spread across the list. > > On 2/21/13, Andrew wrote: >> Hi all >> >> I seen some emails that have been going through here. it looks like >> some people have been hacked. today i just saw one from an angela If >> you find that your email account is been hacked please reset or change >> your password. That is what i reckommend. >> >> I j ust wondered if anybody else saw the message from an angela with >> the web site. don't open that aud web site those suspisious things >> most likely have a virous. >> >> I don't mean to be paranoied but i just wanted to make sure that >> person knows that they have been hacked i know it is because there is >> no subject line and i don't open emails with no subject. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com > From maurice.mines at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:32:56 2013 From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:32:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] The link to the math accessibility video that I mentioned in the reply to the email that's going around regarding the Trojan email link. Message-ID: Good afternoon even though I am technically no longer a student, I figured that some of you might like to see this video about college-level math accessibility. Hopefully this helps someone out, and/or gives them some ideas. Lastly just wondering what you all think of this in general? Please note that this video is not described. But after myself and one other person who is not on this list reviewed the described version I will post a link if there is sufficient interest. Have a great afternoon. The best way I can describe what I'm doing on the student list these days is lurking and occasionally passing some of the good ideas that I see here on to my internship boss. Here is the link to the video.Sincerely Maurice mines secretary national Federation of the blind of Washington Clark County chapter. Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.http://youtu.be/sxbYvlPW1Nk From icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us Thu Feb 21 22:34:36 2013 From: icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us (Greg Wocher) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:34:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: <7452EB34-79C6-4238-84D7-CAA2849DC5C6@gmail.com> References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> <7452EB34-79C6-4238-84D7-CAA2849DC5C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5126A0FC.3070004@gtwebdesign.us> Hello, When putting in the info under the headings should you put it in a list like: Relevant Course Work: Business Communication C# Programming Object oriented programming Or would it be better like this: Relevant Course Work: Business communication. Professional Writing. C# Programming. Thanks, Greg Wocher Twitter name GWocher On 2/21/2013 5:01 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > Hi Greg and all, > Kaiti had some great advice. I would like to add a bit of a different perspective. > > I respectfully disagree on the point of keeping the resume to one page. Everything I have read and heard from professionals is that less is more when it comes to resumes. Potential employers want to find the relevant info they are looking for quickly and easily. Everything I have found indicates that unless you are a long term professional with several jobs under your belt, you need to keep the resume to one page. This can be a challenge but it is very doable. > > This means that you cut out everything that isn't absolutely necessary. In my opinion, the absolutely necessary info you must include are your contact info, your education, work/volunteer/professional experiences, and any professional memberships. After that, if you have room you can go into honors and awards. To save you the space from creating separate headings, you can combine work and volunteer experiences into one heading called "Experience." > > Some people like to include an objective on the resume but it seems like a waste of space to me. It is often a vague statement that lacks meaning and you will cover this in your cover letter anyway. Things like personality traits belong in the cover letter as well. > > I would also leave your references off of the resume. If your employer wants them, you can submit a separate reference sheet. This gives you more space on the actual resume. > > I like Kaiti's suggestions on how to format your headings/text. The goal is clear and concise. Keep it simple and clear. Have a few friends/mentors look it over when you're done. Ask them to help you eliminate any fluff you can get rid of. > > Hope this helps. Best of luck with your position. > > -Greg > > On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send >> and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to >> say will go through this time. >> >> There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you >> how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which >> sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to >> get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well >> as provide examples. >> >> First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the >> font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font >> sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between >> 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the >> resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this >> should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. >> Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, >> Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. >> >> Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 >> point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've >> used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), >> Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, >> and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton >> for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these >> sections delete the heading and ignore it. >> >> When you write the information under these headings, it is important >> to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct >> sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, >> but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will >> be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to >> you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be >> left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank >> line between each section. >> >> Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. >> Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To >> obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." >> >> Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their >> addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received >> your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most >> recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: >> Education: >> The University of Dayton. >> 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. >> Degree Expected: May 2016. >> Colerain High School. >> 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. >> >> Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish >> to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication >> skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever >> qualities you like in a similar manner. >> >> For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of >> school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and >> include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an >> officer position in a club or organization. >> >> Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first >> and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then >> write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If >> you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say >> something like "May 2012-present." Example: >> Work Experience: >> Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. >> Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. >> >> Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've >> volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same >> format. >> Volunteer Experience: >> Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. >> Assisted with... duties included... etc. >> >> Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. >> List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. >> Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include >> memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite >> fit into the activities section. Fake example: >> Awards and Honors: >> Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. >> Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. >> Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. >> Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. >> Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. >> >> Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either >> title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who >> would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These >> people should not be family. Example: >> References: >> Kaiti Shelton >> Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. >> Phone: (123)456-7890. >> Email: kaiti at email.com. >> It helps to list these references in order of who has known you >> longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or >> need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: >> References: >> Available upon request. >> >> Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's >> something they always told me in high school but in reality employers >> would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one >> page resume with some important details removed for space. If you >> pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's >> not a big deal. >> >> This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. >> >> On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>> On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web >>>> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a >>>> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >>>> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >>>> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >>>> online tips? >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Greg Wocher >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Twitter name GWocher >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >> >> -- >> Kaiti >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us > From andrewjedg at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:35:49 2013 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:35:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] excessable virous scanners Message-ID: Hi all What anti virous programs do you use for anti virous software? just was wondering i do use avast anti virous. Does mack computers get virouses seems to me they don't. this may be a timely topic with all the hackers and stuff o ut these days. It seems to me that allot of that is happening. From everett at everettgavel.com Thu Feb 21 22:44:08 2013 From: everett at everettgavel.com (Everett Gavel) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:44:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Coursera? Message-ID: <8CB88D552DB4421BA1603B3F362C64D7@Lisa> Hello NABSters, Anyone here used or using this online educational resource yet? Just curious as to the accessibility of it, seeing how quickly it's growing & all: "Another Way to Get Massive: Coursera Doubles University Partners -- Massive open online course (MOOC) provider Coursera has been landgrabbing colleges all over the world -- it's now up to 62 schools. The Mountain View, California-based site has 2.8 million users and 1.45 million course enrollments per month." Read more: http://allthingsd.com/20130220/another-way-to-get-massive-coursera-doubles-university-partners/ Thanks, Everett everett at everettgavel.com From zerone1683 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 22:50:31 2013 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:50:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible virus scanners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301ce1085$dbb72230$93256690$@com> I normally just use the Microsoft Security Essentials along with the I.E. firewall, but I have AVG for extra protection in the background. Norton is another good antivirus program, so is McAfee and Casper Sky. I also have AVG for my android phone. Evidently, there hackers to be people that try to get into your smart phone via text messaging; texting is also a form of data transmission. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:36 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] excessable virous scanners Hi all What anti virous programs do you use for anti virous software? just was wondering i do use avast anti virous. Does mack computers get virouses seems to me they don't. this may be a timely topic with all the hackers and stuff o ut these days. It seems to me that allot of that is happening. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 23:09:46 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:09:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00be01ce1088$8afbd680$a0f38380$@gmail.com> Kaiti, Andrew and all, Agreed. For me, Cody's message had his name as the subject and Angela's had her name as the subject. I will sometimes open emails without subjects, as sometimes they are legitimate but the sender forgot to add a subject. If the emails are like the ones Cody and Angela's accounts sent to the list with only a weird link in the body, I don't click on the link. Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked Hi Andrew, You are right to not open emails without a subject line, i do the same. I didn't see one from Angela, but I did see one from a Cody looking like a fishing scam with no subject and a random link. Thank God Gmail allows me to view the first few characters of the message before I actually open the email. I agree! If you have had an email you didn't send go through the list. Especially since we're all students here who need our computers, Apple Devices, and other equipment for school, please do what you can to fix the situation so the virus or whatever doesn't spread across the list. On 2/21/13, Andrew wrote: > Hi all > > I seen some emails that have been going through here. it looks like > some people have been hacked. today i just saw one from an angela If > you find that your email account is been hacked please reset or change > your password. That is what i reckommend. > > I j ust wondered if anybody else saw the message from an angela with > the web site. don't open that aud web site those suspisious things > most likely have a virous. > > I don't mean to be paranoied but i just wanted to make sure that > person knows that they have been hacked i know it is because there is > no subject line and i don't open emails with no subject. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% > 40gmail.com > -- Kaiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From gpaikens at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 02:08:34 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:08:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: <5126A0FC.3070004@gtwebdesign.us> References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> <7452EB34-79C6-4238-84D7-CAA2849DC5C6@gmail.com> <5126A0FC.3070004@gtwebdesign.us> Message-ID: <120750C9-6993-4697-AD50-BA6FA3359E8F@gmail.com> I would go with something more like your second option, although often those lists are separated with a ; instead of periods. Your post also made me think of an important part of the resume that I left off in my previous message. A heading labelled Skills can be an excellent way to include other things that might not fit into categories like work and education. You could call it relevant skills, skills, or relevant coursework like you did. -Greg On Feb 21, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello, > When putting in the info under the headings should you put it in a list like: > Relevant Course Work: > Business Communication > C# Programming > Object oriented programming > Or would it be better like this: > Relevant Course Work: > Business communication. Professional Writing. C# Programming. > > Thanks, > Greg Wocher > > Twitter name GWocher > > On 2/21/2013 5:01 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: >> Hi Greg and all, >> Kaiti had some great advice. I would like to add a bit of a different perspective. >> >> I respectfully disagree on the point of keeping the resume to one page. Everything I have read and heard from professionals is that less is more when it comes to resumes. Potential employers want to find the relevant info they are looking for quickly and easily. Everything I have found indicates that unless you are a long term professional with several jobs under your belt, you need to keep the resume to one page. This can be a challenge but it is very doable. >> >> This means that you cut out everything that isn't absolutely necessary. In my opinion, the absolutely necessary info you must include are your contact info, your education, work/volunteer/professional experiences, and any professional memberships. After that, if you have room you can go into honors and awards. To save you the space from creating separate headings, you can combine work and volunteer experiences into one heading called "Experience." >> >> Some people like to include an objective on the resume but it seems like a waste of space to me. It is often a vague statement that lacks meaning and you will cover this in your cover letter anyway. Things like personality traits belong in the cover letter as well. >> >> I would also leave your references off of the resume. If your employer wants them, you can submit a separate reference sheet. This gives you more space on the actual resume. >> >> I like Kaiti's suggestions on how to format your headings/text. The goal is clear and concise. Keep it simple and clear. Have a few friends/mentors look it over when you're done. Ask them to help you eliminate any fluff you can get rid of. >> >> Hope this helps. Best of luck with your position. >> >> -Greg >> >> On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send >>> and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to >>> say will go through this time. >>> >>> There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you >>> how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which >>> sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to >>> get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well >>> as provide examples. >>> >>> First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the >>> font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font >>> sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between >>> 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the >>> resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this >>> should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. >>> Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, >>> Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. >>> >>> Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 >>> point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've >>> used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), >>> Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, >>> and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton >>> for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these >>> sections delete the heading and ignore it. >>> >>> When you write the information under these headings, it is important >>> to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct >>> sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, >>> but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will >>> be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to >>> you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be >>> left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank >>> line between each section. >>> >>> Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. >>> Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To >>> obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." >>> >>> Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their >>> addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received >>> your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most >>> recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: >>> Education: >>> The University of Dayton. >>> 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. >>> Degree Expected: May 2016. >>> Colerain High School. >>> 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. >>> >>> Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish >>> to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication >>> skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever >>> qualities you like in a similar manner. >>> >>> For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of >>> school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and >>> include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an >>> officer position in a club or organization. >>> >>> Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first >>> and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then >>> write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If >>> you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say >>> something like "May 2012-present." Example: >>> Work Experience: >>> Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. >>> Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. >>> >>> Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've >>> volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same >>> format. >>> Volunteer Experience: >>> Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. >>> Assisted with... duties included... etc. >>> >>> Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. >>> List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. >>> Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include >>> memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite >>> fit into the activities section. Fake example: >>> Awards and Honors: >>> Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. >>> Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. >>> Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. >>> Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. >>> Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. >>> >>> Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either >>> title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who >>> would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These >>> people should not be family. Example: >>> References: >>> Kaiti Shelton >>> Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. >>> Phone: (123)456-7890. >>> Email: kaiti at email.com. >>> It helps to list these references in order of who has known you >>> longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or >>> need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: >>> References: >>> Available upon request. >>> >>> Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's >>> something they always told me in high school but in reality employers >>> would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one >>> page resume with some important details removed for space. If you >>> pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's >>> not a big deal. >>> >>> This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. >>> >>> On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>> On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in web >>>>> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for a >>>>> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >>>>> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >>>>> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >>>>> online tips? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Greg Wocher >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Twitter name GWocher >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kaiti >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 16:29:50 2013 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:29:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: FINAL REMINDER: HSCF is now accepting applications for the Advocates in Disability Award (Apply by 03/15/13) In-Reply-To: References: <81D8DC3C0BCCFE4BA44940D6F206E458037CF8@HSCFMSASEXMB01.HFSC.local> Message-ID: <005b01ce1119$e57ea560$b07bf020$@gmail.com> Here's something that might interest you: From: Ryan Easterly [mailto:REasterly at cscn.org] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:19 PM To: Ryan Easterly Subject: FINAL REMINDER: HSCF is now accepting applications for the Advocates in Disability Award (Apply by 03/15/13) This is a final reminder that. HSCF IS NOW ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS FOR THE ADVOCATES IN DISABILITY AWARD (ADA). The HSC Foundation's ADA Program is seeking the next generation of disability advocates!! If you are a young leader with a disability or know of anyone who is, you/they are encouraged to apply for the 2013 Advocates in Disability Award (ADA)! The purpose of the ADA Program is to award and encourage a young individual with a disability between the ages of 14 and 26, who has dedicated himself/herself to positively affecting the lives of individuals with disabilities and their families in the United States. The program also supports an innovative project developed by that young person with a disability that serves and empowers individuals with disabilities. The Advocates in Disability Award (ADA) is a program of The HSC Foundation, funded in part by the Sarah Beth Coyote Foundation. The selected recipient is awarded $3,000 in recognition of his/her past disability advocacy and will receive up to an additional $7,000 in funding support for his/her proposed project. Applicants must be a citizen or permanent resident of the United States at the time of application submission and recipient selection. The Advocates in Disability Award Program is part of The HSC Foundation's National Youth Transitions Initiative (NYTI). To apply, please see the attached guidelines and application. You may also apply online at: www.hscfoundation.org/2013ADA.php Applications must be received by March 15, 2013 (by 5:00pm EST). Best regards, Ryan Easterly Manager, National Youth Transitions Initiative The HSC Foundation Washington, DC. REasterly at cscn.org www.hscfoundation.org www.thenytc.org facebook1 facebook1 foursquare twitter The HSC The National Youth Foundation Transitions Center The HSC Health Care System Caring. Serving. Empowering. Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 882 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1252 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ADA Guidelines_508.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 39379 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ADA Application_508.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 705976 bytes Desc: not available URL: From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 19:37:00 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:37:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Resumes In-Reply-To: <120750C9-6993-4697-AD50-BA6FA3359E8F@gmail.com> References: <51263E27.6000603@gtwebdesign.us> <7452EB34-79C6-4238-84D7-CAA2849DC5C6@gmail.com> <5126A0FC.3070004@gtwebdesign.us> <120750C9-6993-4697-AD50-BA6FA3359E8F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I like the idea of a "relevant Coursework" heading and using semicolons to separate your points. That sounds like it should work better for you. Like I said though, there are tons of different ways to format a resume, so play around with it and see what works. HTH. On 2/21/13, Greg Aikens wrote: > I would go with something more like your second option, although often those > lists are separated with a ; instead of periods. > > Your post also made me think of an important part of the resume that I left > off in my previous message. A heading labelled Skills can be an excellent > way to include other things that might not fit into categories like work and > education. You could call it relevant skills, skills, or relevant > coursework like you did. > > -Greg > On Feb 21, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Greg Wocher > wrote: > >> Hello, >> When putting in the info under the headings should you put it in a list >> like: >> Relevant Course Work: >> Business Communication >> C# Programming >> Object oriented programming >> Or would it be better like this: >> Relevant Course Work: >> Business communication. Professional Writing. C# Programming. >> >> Thanks, >> Greg Wocher >> >> Twitter name GWocher >> >> On 2/21/2013 5:01 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: >>> Hi Greg and all, >>> Kaiti had some great advice. I would like to add a bit of a different >>> perspective. >>> >>> I respectfully disagree on the point of keeping the resume to one page. >>> Everything I have read and heard from professionals is that less is more >>> when it comes to resumes. Potential employers want to find the relevant >>> info they are looking for quickly and easily. Everything I have found >>> indicates that unless you are a long term professional with several jobs >>> under your belt, you need to keep the resume to one page. This can be a >>> challenge but it is very doable. >>> >>> This means that you cut out everything that isn't absolutely necessary. >>> In my opinion, the absolutely necessary info you must include are your >>> contact info, your education, work/volunteer/professional experiences, >>> and any professional memberships. After that, if you have room you can >>> go into honors and awards. To save you the space from creating separate >>> headings, you can combine work and volunteer experiences into one heading >>> called "Experience." >>> >>> Some people like to include an objective on the resume but it seems like >>> a waste of space to me. It is often a vague statement that lacks meaning >>> and you will cover this in your cover letter anyway. Things like >>> personality traits belong in the cover letter as well. >>> >>> I would also leave your references off of the resume. If your employer >>> wants them, you can submit a separate reference sheet. This gives you >>> more space on the actual resume. >>> >>> I like Kaiti's suggestions on how to format your headings/text. The goal >>> is clear and concise. Keep it simple and clear. Have a few >>> friends/mentors look it over when you're done. Ask them to help you >>> eliminate any fluff you can get rid of. >>> >>> Hope this helps. Best of luck with your position. >>> >>> -Greg >>> >>> On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Kaiti Shelton >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> Sorry for the blank post earlier; my internet went out when I hit send >>>> and the information didn't go through. Hopefully what I was going to >>>> say will go through this time. >>>> >>>> There are many different ways to format a resume, but I can tell you >>>> how I have been taught to do it. If anyone else has suggestions which >>>> sound like they'll work better feel free to pacemail them together to >>>> get the best possible resume. I'll show you how I've done it as well >>>> as provide examples. >>>> >>>> First, start by putting your name at the top of the page. Make the >>>> font bold and centered. You can also make it larger by a few font >>>> sizes, but I'd say no more than 18 point. I like to keep mine between >>>> 14 and 18 depending on how much information I have to put into the >>>> resume. Below that, type some contact information. The font for this >>>> should be shrunken back to 12 point, unbolded, and kept centered. >>>> Something like this would work, "Phone: (123)456-7890. New line, >>>> Email: joe.schmow at gmail.com," should work. >>>> >>>> Next, type the following headings left side justified and in bold 12 >>>> point font. There is some flexibility in this, but here is what I've >>>> used; Objective, Education, (optional, Personal Qualities), >>>> Activities, Work Experience, Volunteer Experience, Awards and Honors, >>>> and Recommendations/References. These headings give you the skeleton >>>> for your resume. If you don't have anything to put in any of these >>>> sections delete the heading and ignore it. >>>> >>>> When you write the information under these headings, it is important >>>> to note that you do not write in complete, gramatically correct >>>> sentence. By that I mean you should still check spelling and such, >>>> but these sentences will not follow the traditional form. Most will >>>> be in past tense without a subject because they're all referring to >>>> you in the first place. All font under these headings should also be >>>> left side justified and unbolded, 12 point. Be sure to leave a blank >>>> line between each section. >>>> >>>> Objective: For this heading you write the position you're going for. >>>> Example, "To obtain a position as CEO of Joe Schmow Inc," or, "To >>>> obtain a position as a McDonalds manager." >>>> >>>> Under education you'll put the schools you've attended, their >>>> addresses, and when your degree was received. If you haven't received >>>> your degree yet say degree expected and give the date. Put the most >>>> recent school or the one you're attending now first. Example: >>>> Education: >>>> The University of Dayton. >>>> 300 College Park. Dayton Oh. 45469. >>>> Degree Expected: May 2016. >>>> Colerain High School. >>>> 8801 Cheviot Rd. Cincinnati Oh. 45251. >>>> >>>> Next, if you like you can put a personal qualities section if you wish >>>> to mention that you have a "strong work ethic," "good communication >>>> skills," or "detail-oriented and thurrough with work." List whatever >>>> qualities you like in a similar manner. >>>> >>>> For the activities section list things you were involved in outside of >>>> school or work. Mention them in most recent to least recent order and >>>> include dates. Be sure to mention things such as if you held an >>>> officer position in a club or organization. >>>> >>>> Work Experience: For work experience list your most recent job first >>>> and work backwards from there. List the dates you held the job, then >>>> write what your responsibilities were using a past-tense style. If >>>> you are still currently employed in the first job you list just say >>>> something like "May 2012-present." Example: >>>> Work Experience: >>>> Joe Schmow Inc. May 2012-Jan 2013. >>>> Assisted customers with... contributed to... recorded... etc. >>>> >>>> Volunteer Experience is formatted the same way. The thing you've >>>> volunteered for most recently goes first and you follow that same >>>> format. >>>> Volunteer Experience: >>>> Volunteered at St. Vincent De Paul. Feb 2013. >>>> Assisted with... duties included... etc. >>>> >>>> Awards and Honors is more like the activities heading in formatting. >>>> List the thing you've achieved most recently and work backwards. >>>> Remember that these are not just awards, but can also include >>>> memberships in prestigious groups or organizations which didn't quite >>>> fit into the activities section. Fake example: >>>> Awards and Honors: >>>> Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Jan 2013. >>>> Elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. Nov 2012. >>>> Inducted into the ... hall of fame. Jul 2011. >>>> Nominated for a Grammy award. Apr 2009. >>>> Accepted as a member of Mensa. Jan 2007. >>>> >>>> Last you have Recommendations or References, you can choose either >>>> title. This is a list of people, usually no more than 2 or 3, who >>>> would be willing to recommend you to the potential employer. These >>>> people should not be family. Example: >>>> References: >>>> Kaiti Shelton >>>> Former Colleague at Joe Schmow Inc. >>>> Phone: (123)456-7890. >>>> Email: kaiti at email.com. >>>> It helps to list these references in order of who has known you >>>> longest or who would give you the best review. If you don't want or >>>> need to list someone's contact information you could also do this: >>>> References: >>>> Available upon request. >>>> >>>> Tip: Don't worry about keeping the resume at a page minimum. That's >>>> something they always told me in high school but in reality employers >>>> would rather read one and a half pages of good information than a one >>>> page resume with some important details removed for space. If you >>>> pack your resume with the right stuff and it goes over a little it's >>>> not a big deal. >>>> >>>> This should give you a solid resume. Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> On 2/21/13, Kaiti Shelton wrote: >>>>> On 2/21/13, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>> I am an Computer Information Systems major with a specialization in >>>>>> web >>>>>> development and administration. I have the opportunity to apply for >>>>>> a >>>>>> job for the college I attend, DeVry University Online, as a website >>>>>> accessibility specialist. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on >>>>>> creating a resume or could point me in the right direction for some >>>>>> online tips? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Greg Wocher >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Twitter name GWocher >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kaiti >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kaiti >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/icewolf2011%40gtwebdesign.us >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 19:41:37 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:41:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked In-Reply-To: <00be01ce1088$8afbd680$a0f38380$@gmail.com> References: <00be01ce1088$8afbd680$a0f38380$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Yes, there is a very fine line, and I do know people who almost always forget to write something in the subject line. I've had an experience though where a family member had their account hacked, and although I didn't open the email and my computer wasn't effected, it did get a couple of other family members because they just assumed it would be okay to open. Sometimes just opening the email itself without even clicking the link does enough damage, so I just tell people to always put something, even if it's just "Hi" or something in the subject line, otherwise I won't open it until I am certain it's okay. On 2/21/13, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Kaiti, Andrew and all, > > Agreed. For me, Cody's message had his name as the subject and Angela's had > her name as the subject. I will sometimes open emails without subjects, as > sometimes they are legitimate but the sender forgot to add a subject. If > the > emails are like the ones Cody and Angela's accounts sent to the list with > only a weird link in the body, I don't click on the link. > > Chris > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > Public Relations Committee > Maryland Association of Blind Students > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email accounts being hacked > > Hi Andrew, > > You are right to not open emails without a subject line, i do the same. I > didn't see one from Angela, but I did see one from a Cody looking like a > fishing scam with no subject and a random link. Thank God Gmail allows me > to view the first few characters of the message before I actually open the > email. > > I agree! If you have had an email you didn't send go through the list. > Especially since we're all students here who need our computers, Apple > Devices, and other equipment for school, please do what you can to fix the > situation so the virus or whatever doesn't spread across the list. > > On 2/21/13, Andrew wrote: >> Hi all >> >> I seen some emails that have been going through here. it looks like >> some people have been hacked. today i just saw one from an angela If >> you find that your email account is been hacked please reset or change >> your password. That is what i reckommend. >> >> I j ust wondered if anybody else saw the message from an angela with >> the web site. don't open that aud web site those suspisious things >> most likely have a virous. >> >> I don't mean to be paranoied but i just wanted to make sure that >> person knows that they have been hacked i know it is because there is >> no subject line and i don't open emails with no subject. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kaiti > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 22:03:12 2013 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:03:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 In-Reply-To: <0.1.7B.9FC.1CE112EF7D73F0A.0@drone084.ral.icpbounce.com> References: <0.1.7B.9FC.1CE112EF7D73F0A.0@drone084.ral.icpbounce.com> Message-ID: <010601ce1148$69eb0310$3dc10930$@gmail.com> From: The Hadley School for the Blind [mailto:mailinglist at hadley.edu] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:01 AM To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Subject: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 This newsletter is best viewed in HTML format. header image: eConnect from The Hadley School for the Blind In this issue... Reminder: Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: Building Blocks of Vision Rehabilitation Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: Building Blocks of Vision Rehabilitation Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013 Time: 10:00 AM CST, 16:00 GMT As the skeleton provides structure to the human body, assessment, systematic instructional programming and outcome-based client satisfaction form the foundational structure of sound vision rehabilitation. Are you and your agency following standards of "best practice" and evidence-based outcomes? Join Seminars at Hadley as Lynda Jones, CVRT, provides a Blueprint for Seamless Services based on evidence-based practices supported by a cohesive trio of documentation that can standardize services across programs at the local, state or federal levels. Dawn Turco, Hadley's senior vice president, will moderate this 60-minute seminar. A question and answer session will be included as part of the seminar. This seminar has been approved by the Academy for Certification of Vision Rehabilitation and Education Professionals (ACVREP) for earning Continuing Education (CE) Hour(s) and/or The Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification (CRCC) for Clock Hour(s). (In some cases, approval may be pending at the time the seminar is presented live.) As always, listening to the seminar remains free of charge. To register for the free live seminar, select the "Registration" link below. If you wish to go on and earn CE Hour(s), you must also register for 1 CE Hour(s) and complete a separate registration form and pay a U.S. $25 fee. Once registered, you will receive instruction on how to login and take the online quiz to earn your CE Hour(s). Space in this seminar is limited. Please only register if you know you are available to attend so that others are not closed out. Register for the Blueprint for Seamless Services seminar on March 7. Mark Your Calendars! Complete list of tentatively scheduled future seminars Subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts! Learn more and subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts. Did you receive this email as a forward? Sign up to receive eConnect. Follow us on: facebook logo Facebook twitter logo Twitter About Hadley Enroll Now Donate Online footer image: 'Lifelong Learning since 1920' The Hadley School for the Blind, 700 Elm Street, Winnetka, IL 60093, 800-323-4238, www.hadley.edu This message was sent to avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com from: The Hadley School for the Blind | 700 Elm St. | Winnetka, IL 60093 Email Marketing by iContact - Try It Free! Unsubscribe | Forward To a Friend From jj at bestmidi.com Sun Feb 24 09:59:21 2013 From: jj at bestmidi.com (Jason Meddaugh) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 04:59:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Synderro Maps for the PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D827E732BCB4A469FB242CDA11464A9@jagecomp> Hello. Sendero Maps is still a separate product, and actually a bit cheaper than the APH version of the same, which includes some additional features geared toward O&M. I'd be happy to answer any questions about this off-list, as we are a distributor for the maps. The Accessible Google Maps is a good way to put it. You can call us at 269-216-4798 or E-Mail support at atguys.com Thanks. Thanks much, J.J. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Synderro Maps for the PC I use the American Printing House Talking Maps which use the Sendero maps. I'm not sure what you are looking at when you refer to the Sendero maps, but I thought they were the same product now. I find them very useful. Sometimes the handling of streets crossing freeways is a bit confusing at times, but in general, they are very helpful. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:01:35 -0500, Ian Perrault wrote: > Hi All, >Im considering buying the Synderro maps for the PC 2012, because you can >browse virtually and know whats around, your exact route, etc before you go out and about. Have any of you used these maps to gain information about the layout of a certain place or area? Are they effective? Are there other alternative, fully accessible maps that do the same thing? These maps sound like the accessible version of google maps. >Ian >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sun Feb 24 16:18:06 2013 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:18:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 References: <0.1.7B.9FC.1CE112EF7D73F0A.0@drone084.ral.icpbounce.com> <010601ce1148$69eb0310$3dc10930$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5B0E165395B54E729B9E4B0D780576A7@Gloria> Hello, How would I get signed up to participate in the beginners courses with Hadley? Thank you, Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 4:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 > > > From: The Hadley School for the Blind [mailto:mailinglist at hadley.edu] > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:01 AM > To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com > Subject: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 > > > > > This newsletter is best viewed in HTML format. > > header image: eConnect from The Hadley School for the Blind > bece84964bf376/image/jpeg> > > > In this issue... > > Reminder: Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: > Building Blocks of Vision Rehabilitation > > > Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: Building Blocks > of Vision Rehabilitation > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013 > > Time: 10:00 AM CST, 16:00 GMT > > As the skeleton provides structure to the human body, assessment, > systematic > instructional programming and outcome-based client satisfaction form the > foundational structure of sound vision rehabilitation. Are you and your > agency following standards of "best practice" and evidence-based outcomes? > > Join Seminars at Hadley as Lynda Jones, CVRT, provides a Blueprint for > Seamless > Services based on evidence-based practices supported by a cohesive trio of > documentation that can standardize services across programs at the local, > state or federal levels. > > Dawn Turco, Hadley's senior vice president, will moderate this 60-minute > seminar. A question and answer session will be included as part of the > seminar. > > This seminar has been approved by the Academy for Certification of Vision > Rehabilitation and Education Professionals (ACVREP) for earning Continuing > Education (CE) Hour(s) and/or The Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor > Certification (CRCC) for Clock Hour(s). (In some cases, approval may be > pending at the time the seminar is presented live.) > > As always, listening to the seminar remains free of charge. To register > for > the free live seminar, select the "Registration" link below. If you wish > to > go on and earn CE Hour(s), you must also > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarCE_Register.asp%3Fsid%3D > 177> register for 1 CE Hour(s) and complete a separate registration form > and > pay a U.S. $25 fee. Once registered, you will receive instruction on how > to > login and take the online quiz to earn your CE Hour(s). > > Space in this seminar is limited. Please only register if you know you are > available to attend so that others are not closed out. > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarDetails.asp%3Fsid%3D177> > Register for the Blueprint for Seamless Services seminar on March 7. > > Mark Your Calendars! > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarUpcomings.asp> > Complete > list of tentatively scheduled future seminars > > Subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts! > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FPodcasts.asp> Learn more and > subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts. > > Did you receive this email as a forward? > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FeNewsletter.asp> Sign up to > receive eConnect. > > > Follow us on: > > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fthehadleyschoolfortheblin > d> facebook logo > Facebook > > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twitter.com%2Fthehadleyschool> twitter > logo > Twitter > > > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2FAboutHadley.asp> About > Hadley > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2Fenroll> Enroll Now > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2Fdonate.asp> Donate Online > footer image: 'Lifelong Learning since 1920' The Hadley School for the > Blind, 700 Elm Street, Winnetka, IL 60093, 800-323-4238, www.hadley.edu > 9e15b5ad507844/image/jpeg> > > > This message was sent to > avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com from: > The Hadley School for the Blind | 700 Elm St. | Winnetka, IL 60093 > Email Marketing by iContact - Try > It > Free! > > > > 7780&c=225701> Unsubscribe | > &cid=225701> Forward To a Friend > > 225701> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Feb 25 01:38:30 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 20:38:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 In-Reply-To: <5B0E165395B54E729B9E4B0D780576A7@Gloria> References: <0.1.7B.9FC.1CE112EF7D73F0A.0@drone084.ral.icpbounce.com> <010601ce1148$69eb0310$3dc10930$@gmail.com> <5B0E165395B54E729B9E4B0D780576A7@Gloria> Message-ID: <004801ce12f8$d1715d20$74541760$@gmail.com> Gloria, You should be able to sign up on the Hadley Web site, which is www.hadley.edu. Hope this helps, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students Phone: (443) 547-2409 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:18 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 Hello, How would I get signed up to participate in the beginners courses with Hadley? Thank you, Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 4:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 > > > From: The Hadley School for the Blind [mailto:mailinglist at hadley.edu] > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:01 AM > To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com > Subject: Hadley eConnect, February 22, 2013 > > > > > This newsletter is best viewed in HTML format. > > header image: eConnect from The Hadley School for the Blind > 11aedd > bece84964bf376/image/jpeg> > > > In this issue... > > Reminder: Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: > Building Blocks of Vision Rehabilitation > > > Seminars at Hadley Presents: Blueprint for Seamless Services: Building > Blocks of Vision Rehabilitation > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013 > > Time: 10:00 AM CST, 16:00 GMT > > As the skeleton provides structure to the human body, assessment, > systematic instructional programming and outcome-based client > satisfaction form the foundational structure of sound vision > rehabilitation. Are you and your agency following standards of "best > practice" and evidence-based outcomes? > > Join Seminars at Hadley as Lynda Jones, CVRT, provides a Blueprint for > Seamless Services based on evidence-based practices supported by a > cohesive trio of documentation that can standardize services across > programs at the local, state or federal levels. > > Dawn Turco, Hadley's senior vice president, will moderate this > 60-minute seminar. A question and answer session will be included as > part of the seminar. > > This seminar has been approved by the Academy for Certification of > Vision Rehabilitation and Education Professionals (ACVREP) for earning > Continuing Education (CE) Hour(s) and/or The Commission on > Rehabilitation Counselor Certification (CRCC) for Clock Hour(s). (In > some cases, approval may be pending at the time the seminar is > presented live.) > > As always, listening to the seminar remains free of charge. To > register for the free live seminar, select the "Registration" link > below. If you wish to go on and earn CE Hour(s), you must also > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarCE_Register.asp%3F > sid%3D > 177> register for 1 CE Hour(s) and complete a separate registration > 177> form > and > pay a U.S. $25 fee. Once registered, you will receive instruction on > how to login and take the online quiz to earn your CE Hour(s). > > Space in this seminar is limited. Please only register if you know you > are available to attend so that others are not closed out. > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarDetails.asp%3Fsid% > 3D177> Register for the Blueprint for Seamless Services seminar on > March 7. > > Mark Your Calendars! > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FSeminarUpcomings.asp> > Complete > list of tentatively scheduled future seminars > > Subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts! > BZ9&c= 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FPodcasts.asp> > Learn more and subscribe to Seminars at Hadley Podcasts. > > Did you receive this email as a forward? > BZ9&c= 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fhadley.edu%2FeNewsletter.asp> > Sign up to receive eConnect. > > > Follow us on: > > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fthehadleyschoolfort > heblin > d> facebook logo > Facebook > > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twitter.com%2Fthehadleyschool> > twitter logo Twitter > > > BZ9&c= > 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2FAboutHadley.asp> > About Hadley > BZ9&c= 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2Fenroll> Enroll > Now > BZ9&c= 225701&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hadley.edu%2Fdonate.asp> > Donate Online footer image: 'Lifelong Learning since 1920' The Hadley > School for the Blind, 700 Elm Street, Winnetka, IL 60093, > 800-323-4238, www.hadley.edu > b8a3f3 > 9e15b5ad507844/image/jpeg> > > > This message was sent to > avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com from: > The Hadley School for the Blind | 700 Elm St. | Winnetka, IL 60093 > Email Marketing by iContact - > Try It Free! > > > > 9&m=63 > 7780&c=225701> Unsubscribe | > c=4BZ9 > &cid=225701> Forward To a Friend > > 684&c= > 225701> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Feb 25 15:49:40 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:49:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs is looking for a twitter chair. Message-ID: Hello all, The national Association of Blind Students is looking for a dedicated and diligent individual to serve as chair of our twitter presence. This person will be responsible for posting information relevant to blind students, as well as keeping followers apprised of events in the national Association of blind students as well as the national federation of the Blind. This person will also be charged with moderating twitter chats and may be asked to represent the National Association of blind Students on other twitter chats hosted by the national Federation of the Blind or outside organizations as needed and appropriate. A successful person in this role should be very familiar with twitter language such as hash tags, rettweets, etc. Should be very familiar with twitter prior to taking on this role, and willing to operate in a professional and appropriate manner while using the Nabs twitter. Should also be willing to work independently and be creative. should be familiar with the work of the national Federation of the Blind and national association of Blind Students. This person will be the voice of the National Association of Blind Students on its twitter feed, and will operate as a part of the membership committee, which helps to disseminate information regarding confrence calls, and other announcements from various nabs committees and other information as appropriate. This job is a very important one that will get support from and reports directly to the membership chair, but will also interact with the Division president and members of the board of directors as well. if interested, please contact membership committee chair , Darian Smith at directly at dsmithnfb at gmail.com. Note: all considerations for this position must be received absolutely no later than Friday, March 1. at 5 p.m. Pacific Time. Thank you so much for your interest in improving the possibilities for blind students all over our great nation! and remember, should you like to help the membership committee , or any other committee in nabs, please feel free to go to www.nabslink.org, click on contact us, and find the board member assigned to the committee you want to be a part of. If you aren't finding something there that fits what you want to do, contact any of us and we'll be happy to see what we can do to make something happen for you! Warmest regards, Darian From jsoro620 at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 00:30:49 2013 From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:30:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Article Roundup: How to Manage Student Loans Message-ID: <01ae01ce13b8$8734ae90$959e0bb0$@gmail.com> How much debt will you own when you graduate? It's worth considering when you're torn between ordering a pizza or fixing something from your fridge, going to a happy hour or inviting friends over. These little decisions may seem irrelevant since student loans are only used for tuition, books, and fees, but really, who are we kidding? Read more: http://joeorozco.com/blog_how_to_manage_student_loans From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 03:24:46 2013 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:24:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Participants Needed for Online Research Studies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9276625C-4AF9-445E-880D-2B9988216380@gmail.com> Arielle, I have not looked at the questionnaires in your research. It would be more likely for me to look at the research if I knew the nature of it. Can you give more specifics about your project? Antonio From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 03:48:11 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:48:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Participants Needed for Online Research Studies In-Reply-To: <9276625C-4AF9-445E-880D-2B9988216380@gmail.com> References: <9276625C-4AF9-445E-880D-2B9988216380@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Antonio and all, The research consists of three unconnected studies. Because people are randomly assigned to different conditions and it's impossible to know which condition you might be randomly assigned to, I can't go into a whole lot of detail. I can say, though, that the first study is one where we'll ask you to write a short essay about an aspect of your personal experience as a blind person; the second study is where we'll ask you to solve a set of math problems as best you can; and the third is a survey about your attitudes and feelings about yourself and your blindness as well as your interest in engaging in certain activities in the future. I am sorry I can't go into more detail than that without compromising the integrity of the studies. I hope you will participate and I'd be happy to talk off-list in more detail about the studies after you participate, or if you decide not to participate. Best, Arielle On 2/25/13, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Arielle, > > I have not looked at the questionnaires in your research. > > It would be more likely for me to look at the research if I knew the nature > of it. Can you give more specifics about your project? > > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 14:12:57 2013 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:12:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: All About Chemistry Camp! A Call Presented by the California Association of Blind Students In-Reply-To: <4A57705573644F81B3ACF706E525DD73@HenryPC> References: <4A57705573644F81B3ACF706E525DD73@HenryPC> Message-ID: Greetings, The following comes from the California association of blind students, and is open to both high school students and their parents. Please forward to those you feel may benifit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hoby Wedler Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:05:14 -0800 Subject: All About Chemistry Camp! A Call Presented by the California Association of Blind Students To: Darian Smith Have you ever wondered how you, your blind or visually impaired (BVI) child, or your student could tackle very visual science subjects in school? Have you wondered if there are accessible means of exploring science in the laboratory for BVI students? Then our fire side discussion about the California chemistry camp is for you! Chemistry camp is a program hosted by Accessible Science, a nonprofit working to make science more accessible to BVI students. The camp is sure to be an educational, exciting, academic and social meeting from May 3-5, 2013 near Napa, California. The discussion will include an overview of camp by founder and coordinator Hoby Wedler, discussion on filling out the application and applying for camp, information on time and place of camp and camp logistics, and perhaps most importantly, it will include testimonials from past mentors, instructors, and student alum! There will be plenty of time for your questions and comments throughout the call. If you want more information on how blind students can study extremely visual subjects or want information on talking constructively with people who tell you that you can’t study visual subjects, this call is sure to answer some of your questions about accessibility and most importantly, about how you or a BVI high school student you know can easily partake in the 2013 chemistry camp. When: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 from 6:00-7:00 PM Pacific time Where: Call (218) 339-2500 Access code: 958093. We hope to chat with you on March 12! Yours very truly, The Membership Committee of the California Association of Blind Students -- Darian Smith Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities http://www.nfb.org/fairwages “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…” -Darian Smith From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 21:53:21 2013 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:53:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] knowing what someone looks like Message-ID: <007c01ce146b$b296da50$17c48ef0$@gmail.com> Hi all, Some situations I have recently been in at school and in other places have caused me to think about a question which I would like to get your thoughts on. I have noticed that when identifying other people, sighted people often use information about their visual appearance. For example, they might say "He's the tall guy with dark hair." Sometimes, I have tried to refer to another person when talking with a sighted person and found it difficult for them to know who I'm talking about without information about how the person I'm referring to looks. For example, I have sometimes asked either another student or one of the adult supervisors in our school's cafeteria if they see a friend who I would like to sit with. I can tell them the name of my friend, but unless they know him/her, they can't tell me if they see them without asking somebody else who does. So, I'm wondering how important you have found knowing what someone looks like to be. If you have found it important at all, are there specific people you want or need to know this information about? Where do you get information about the visual appearance of someone; the person you want to know about, another friend, etc? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this! Thanks, Chris Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair Public Relations Committee Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National Federation of the Blind of Maryland Phone: (443) 547-2409 Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs Personal Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind Students Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the Louisiana Center for the Blind From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Feb 27 00:05:43 2013 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:05:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] knowing what someone looks like In-Reply-To: <007c01ce146b$b296da50$17c48ef0$@gmail.com> References: <007c01ce146b$b296da50$17c48ef0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <458ED93F-9C0D-4EED-B154-1AA8FB11F18E@samobile.net> It's probably a good idea to know what your significant others and good friends look like for this sort of reason. I would just ask them. Your blind friends will also know what they look like, so feel free to ask. For example, I am blind and know that I have short brown hair. That's just an example. If you're expecting to be in a crowd of people with a friend or family member, you may want to find out what that individual's wearing that day. That way, you can say I'm looking for the blind lady with dark glasses, a long cane, short brown spiky hair, and a green T-shirt. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:53 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Some situations I have recently been in at school and in other places have > caused me to think about a question which I would like to get your thoughts > on. I have noticed that when identifying other people, sighted people often > use information about their visual appearance. For example, they might say > "He's the tall guy with dark hair." Sometimes, I have tried to refer to > another person when talking with a sighted person and found it difficult for > them to know who I'm talking about without information about how the person > I'm referring to looks. For example, I have sometimes asked either another > student or one of the adult supervisors in our school's cafeteria if they > see a friend who I would like to sit with. I can tell them the name of my > friend, but unless they know him/her, they can't tell me if they see them > without asking somebody else who does. So, I'm wondering how important you > have found knowing what someone looks like to be. If you have found it > important at all, are there specific people you want or need to know this > information about? Where do you get information about the visual appearance > of someone; the person you want to know about, another friend, etc? I look > forward to hearing your thoughts on this! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chris > > > > Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair > > Public Relations Committee > > Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National > Federation of the Blind of Maryland > > Phone: (443) 547-2409 > > Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com > > Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 > > MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs > > Personal Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid > > Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind > Students > > Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum > > > > "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the > Louisiana Center for the Blind > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Wed Feb 27 00:57:52 2013 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:57:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital Message-ID: <42994.68.41.62.184.1361926672.squirrel@lavabit.com> Dear Federationists, I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most out of my education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am pretty sure that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. I know that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them in, in a timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, braille is to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone could give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about this. My IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. thanks 73 kd8qiq Jeff Crouch From kobycox at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 01:05:47 2013 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:05:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital Message-ID: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> Can you please contact me off list with In regards to this? I'm totally blind myself and I can assist you with this. My email address Is as follows: kkobycox %gmailcom. Thanks, Koby. ----- Original Message ----- From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:57:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital Dear Federationists, I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most out of my education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am pretty sure that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. I know that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them in, in a timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, braille is to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone could give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about this. My IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. thanks 73 kd8qiq Jeff Crouch _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma il.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Wed Feb 27 02:03:55 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:03:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8CFE2A5D52C95A3-8D8-90183@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would appreciate any help regarding the matter below. I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester long class) Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or maybe introductory micro economics in college? The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade possible... Any tips/solutions please? Thank you in advance. Miso Kwak From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 02:09:18 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:09:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <8CFE2A5D52C95A3-8D8-90183@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> <8CFE2A5D52C95A3-8D8-90183@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Miso, I took honors econ about ten years ago, so don't remember it too well, but wondering if you could get verbal descriptions of the graphs instead of tactile versions? Some people find these more helpful especially since tactile graphs aren't always properly scaled, and if your teacher is going to the trouble of making tactile graphs it will probably be less work to give you verbal descriptions instead. HTH, Arielle On 2/26/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would > appreciate any help regarding the matter below. > I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester > long class) > Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or > maybe introductory micro economics in college? > The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really > hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I > am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. > Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade > possible... > Any tips/solutions please? > Thank you in advance. > Miso Kwak > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 02:14:13 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:14:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, Have you talked to your TVI about this preference? What was the response? Braille texts usually come from digital versions these days, so it shouldn't be too hard to get them. However, you might also want to think about going to a summer program like one of the NFB camps this summer to work on your Braille reading speed. I don't know how long ago you started learning Braille, but having a faster Braille reading speed can help you a lot in your college and job endeavors in the future. For example, with a faster Braille speed you can use Brailled notes when giving speeches or presentations, instead of memorizing. Arielle On 2/26/13, Koby Cox wrote: > Can you please contact me off list with In regards to this? I'm > totally blind myself and I can assist you with this. My email > address Is as follows: > kkobycox > %gmailcom. > Thanks, > Koby. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com > To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:57:52 -0500 (EST) > Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital > > Dear Federationists, > > I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most > out of my > education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am > pretty sure > that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. > I know > that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them > in, in a > timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, > braille is > to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone > could > give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about > this. My > IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. > > thanks > 73 > kd8qiq > Jeff Crouch > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From emilypennington at fuse.net Wed Feb 27 02:28:50 2013 From: emilypennington at fuse.net (Emily Pennington) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:28:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <8CFE2A5D52C95A3-8D8-90183@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> <8CFE2A5D52C95A3-8D8-90183@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <257EA175BF2D45D4B74C1D09462A6317@EmilyDesktopPC> Hi, Miso. I didn't take Microeconomics as an AP; rather, I took it last semester in college. However, I did take AP Macroeconomics as a senior in high school, so I know what you're talking about. In both classes -- although especially Macro -- I found that even though I did have to scribe a lot of graphs, they all originated from just a few different types. The production possibilities curve, the basic supply-demand graph with a few variations, the Phillips curve, and so on. It's a bit different for Micro, but the basics are similar. So it's not necessarily the graphs that are a bear to memorize, but the shifts of the curves and other little variations. Additionally, when I took my AP test, I got the same problems with the same types of concepts, but what I didn't know until the day of the test was that I wouldn't be asked to draw any graphs. That was pleasantly surprising, because as much as I studied and felt confident about scribing the graphs, it was nice to be able to answer the questions without that pressure of scribing a complicated graph. I hope that helps somewhat, especially since I took a different AP class. Like I said, though, the overall big picture is the same. Emily ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miso Kwak" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would > appreciate any help regarding the matter below. > I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester > long class) > Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or > maybe introductory micro economics in college? > The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really > hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I > am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. > Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade > possible... > Any tips/solutions please? > Thank you in advance. > Miso Kwak > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net > From gpaikens at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 02:30:57 2013 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:30:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <03EEE978-814D-4603-A442-D18A585C00CD@gmail.com> Hi Jeff, Work with your TVI, or independently, to try and locate your texts on bookshare. I thought I read something this last week that said individual users are now able to download the NIMAC files, which is the accessible digital standard for textbooks. Best of luck, -Greg On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Jeff, > Have you talked to your TVI about this preference? What was the response? > Braille texts usually come from digital versions these days, so it > shouldn't be too hard to get them. However, you might also want to > think about going to a summer program like one of the NFB camps this > summer to work on your Braille reading speed. I don't know how long > ago you started learning Braille, but having a faster Braille reading > speed can help you a lot in your college and job endeavors in the > future. For example, with a faster Braille speed you can use Brailled > notes when giving speeches or presentations, instead of memorizing. > Arielle > > On 2/26/13, Koby Cox wrote: >> Can you please contact me off list with In regards to this? I'm >> totally blind myself and I can assist you with this. My email >> address Is as follows: >> kkobycox >> %gmailcom. >> Thanks, >> Koby. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com >> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:57:52 -0500 (EST) >> Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital >> >> Dear Federationists, >> >> I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most >> out of my >> education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am >> pretty sure >> that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. >> I know >> that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them >> in, in a >> timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, >> braille is >> to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone >> could >> give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about >> this. My >> IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. >> >> thanks >> 73 >> kd8qiq >> Jeff Crouch >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma >> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From kwakmiso at aol.com Wed Feb 27 02:59:48 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:59:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <257EA175BF2D45D4B74C1D09462A6317@EmilyDesktopPC> References: <257EA175BF2D45D4B74C1D09462A6317@EmilyDesktopPC> Message-ID: <8CFE2ADA35E7874-8D8-905B0@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Thank you Arielle, Emily. For the previous three units, I have been writing descriptions of graphs... Do you think actually scribing the graphs will make situations better? I believe micro econ test requires scribing graphs on the exam because teacher gave out some former questions and they asked students to graph. Not sure if I will take the exam anyways depending on what college I go and what the policy on AP credits is... Miso -----Original Message----- From: Emily Pennington To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2013 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience Hi, Miso. I didn't take Microeconomics as an AP; rather, I took it last semester in college. However, I did take AP Macroeconomics as a senior in high school, so I know what you're talking about. In both classes -- although especially Macro -- I found that even though I did have to scribe a lot of graphs, they all originated from just a few different types. The production possibilities curve, the basic supply-demand graph with a few variations, the Phillips curve, and so on. It's a bit different for Micro, but the basics are similar. So it's not necessarily the graphs that are a bear to memorize, but the shifts of the curves and other little variations. Additionally, when I took my AP test, I got the same problems with the same types of concepts, but what I didn't know until the day of the test was that I wouldn't be asked to draw any graphs. That was pleasantly surprising, because as much as I studied and felt confident about scribing the graphs, it was nice to be able to answer the questions without that pressure of scribing a complicated graph. I hope that helps somewhat, especially since I took a different AP class. Like I said, though, the overall big picture is the same. Emily ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miso Kwak" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would > appreciate any help regarding the matter below. > I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester > long class) > Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or > maybe introductory micro economics in college? > The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really > hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I > am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. > Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade > possible... > Any tips/solutions please? > Thank you in advance. > Miso Kwak > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 03:03:07 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:03:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <8CFE2ADA35E7874-8D8-905B0@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <257EA175BF2D45D4B74C1D09462A6317@EmilyDesktopPC> <8CFE2ADA35E7874-8D8-905B0@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Miso, What part are you having trouble with? Are you having trouble understanding what's on the graphs you are given to read, or understanding how to describe graphs you make on homework or tests? If the problem is with understanding the graphs you are given to look at, I still think getting verbal descriptions would help a lot. Arielle On 2/26/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > Thank you Arielle, Emily. > For the previous three units, I have been writing descriptions of > graphs... > Do you think actually scribing the graphs will make situations better? > I believe micro econ test requires scribing graphs on the exam because > teacher gave out some former questions and they asked students to graph. > Not sure if I will take the exam anyways depending on what college I go > and what the policy on AP credits is... > Miso > > -----Original Message----- > From: Emily Pennington > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2013 6:29 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > > Hi, Miso. > I didn't take Microeconomics as an AP; rather, I took it last semester > in > college. However, I did take AP Macroeconomics as a senior in high > school, > so I know what you're talking about. In both classes -- although > especially > Macro -- I found that even though I did have to scribe a lot of graphs, > they > all originated from just a few different types. The production > possibilities > curve, the basic supply-demand graph with a few variations, the > Phillips > curve, and so on. It's a bit different for Micro, but the basics are > similar. So it's not necessarily the graphs that are a bear to > memorize, but > the shifts of the curves and other little variations. > Additionally, when I took my AP test, I got the same problems with the > same > types of concepts, but what I didn't know until the day of the test was > that > I wouldn't be asked to draw any graphs. That was pleasantly surprising, > because as much as I studied and felt confident about scribing the > graphs, > it was nice to be able to answer the questions without that pressure of > scribing a complicated graph. > I hope that helps somewhat, especially since I took a different AP > class. > Like I said, though, the overall big picture is the same. > > Emily > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miso Kwak" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:03 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > > >> Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would >> appreciate any help regarding the matter below. >> I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester >> long class) >> Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or >> maybe introductory micro economics in college? >> The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really >> hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I >> am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. >> Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade >> possible... >> Any tips/solutions please? >> Thank you in advance. >> Miso Kwak >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From trising at sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 27 03:04:15 2013 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:04:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8D1D9900AE8B4587B33D37AD60743D72@nickPC> Hi Jeff: Its Terri Wilcox. You know me from our NFB Affiliate and from Braille Camp. I can help you with your Braille Reading speed. Remember, fast readers do not move their lips when they read. Also, use all six fingers. The thumbs and pinkies are not used, but the rest are used for reading Braille. The left hand is more sensitive. If you use more fingers you will not have to read each letter. You will begin to feel shapes of words and your speed will increase drastically. Keep those palms up off the Braille. Cupped hands read faster! Read with both hands together until you reach the last word. Then, the left hand tracks back on the same line while the right hand gets the last word. If you keep your fingers in contact with the Braille, you will not lose speed. Please contact me if you would like help. Terri Wilcox Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan Ann Arbor Chapter President Voice Lessons and Braille Tutoring available. Contact Terri Wilcox MA at (734)663-4050 or at trising at sbcglobal.net From emilypennington at fuse.net Wed Feb 27 03:18:35 2013 From: emilypennington at fuse.net (Emily Pennington) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:18:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <8CFE2ADA35E7874-8D8-905B0@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <257EA175BF2D45D4B74C1D09462A6317@EmilyDesktopPC> <8CFE2ADA35E7874-8D8-905B0@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0128B99A12F346BE9092E04266377D8F@EmilyDesktopPC> Hi, Miso. For me, scribing the graphs really increased my understanding. At any rate, having to scribe them made my descriptions better if I was simply following along on an in-class practice FRQ, because I really fixed the picture in my mind. I know that in said in-class practice essay questions, there are prompts to graph, and that's what I prepared for -- and, I'll admit, feared -- when test day rolled around. However, I guess they give kids with documented accomodations different tests. On all of my AP tests last year, my questions were similar conceptually, but I got the makeup versions from the previous year. Furthermore, the other students would be asked, for example, to draw something like an aggregate supply-demand graph with an inflationary gap. However, instead of asking me to do likewise, I was asked conceptual questions about what an inflation would look like in terms of changing demand or supply, so I was basically writing a description. So there's my long, convoluted answer. I hope that helped, too. Thanks, Emily ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miso Kwak" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > Thank you Arielle, Emily. > For the previous three units, I have been writing descriptions of > graphs... > Do you think actually scribing the graphs will make situations better? > I believe micro econ test requires scribing graphs on the exam because > teacher gave out some former questions and they asked students to graph. > Not sure if I will take the exam anyways depending on what college I go > and what the policy on AP credits is... > Miso > > -----Original Message----- > From: Emily Pennington > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2013 6:29 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > > Hi, Miso. > I didn't take Microeconomics as an AP; rather, I took it last semester in > college. However, I did take AP Macroeconomics as a senior in high school, > so I know what you're talking about. In both classes -- although > especially > Macro -- I found that even though I did have to scribe a lot of graphs, > they > all originated from just a few different types. The production > possibilities > curve, the basic supply-demand graph with a few variations, the Phillips > curve, and so on. It's a bit different for Micro, but the basics are > similar. So it's not necessarily the graphs that are a bear to memorize, > but > the shifts of the curves and other little variations. > Additionally, when I took my AP test, I got the same problems with the > same > types of concepts, but what I didn't know until the day of the test was > that > I wouldn't be asked to draw any graphs. That was pleasantly surprising, > because as much as I studied and felt confident about scribing the graphs, > it was nice to be able to answer the questions without that pressure of > scribing a complicated graph. > I hope that helps somewhat, especially since I took a different AP class. > Like I said, though, the overall big picture is the same. > > Emily > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miso Kwak" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:03 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience > > >> Hello, I am Miso Kwak who recently joined this e-mail list. I would >> appreciate any help regarding the matter below. >> I am currently taking AP Economics as a high school senior (semester >> long class) >> Has anyone taken AP Economics specifically micro in ghih school? Or >> maybe introductory micro economics in college? >> The textbook is only in brf format and the teacher is trying really >> hard to make the tactile graphs (she even learned basic Braille) but I >> am struggling so much in this class mainly because of the graphs. >> Too late to drop so the best way out is to earn the best grade >> possible... >> Any tips/solutions please? >> Thank you in advance. >> Miso Kwak >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kwakmiso%40aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net > From kwakmiso at aol.com Wed Feb 27 03:19:20 2013 From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:19:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CFE2B05E00CC93-8D8-9070B@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Both to some extent. I understand the concept and usually do fairly well on homework because I can ask my teacher for help and such but I don't do well on my exams, which weighs more than 50% of the grade. During exams, I have a hard time both understanding and describing graphs but test mainly involves describing rather than interpreting. I agree that verbal description along with tactile will be helpful. I know it sounds vague... I just feel lost and frustrated well because I am not pulling grade I want and believe I could if both I and my teacher were prepared better. From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 04:23:45 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:23:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] AP Economics - Please Help if you have experience In-Reply-To: <8CFE2B05E00CC93-8D8-9070B@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CFE2B05E00CC93-8D8-9070B@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Miso, I haven't taken econ, but I'm taking Stats this semester and my teacher and I have done a lot with adapting graphs and turning around qquestions to make them more accessible and "drawing-proof". I don't know what your teacher is doing exactly, but if you're going to scribe the graphs in writing it might be beneficial for him to do the same in terms of the information. For example if I have a line graph in stats, my teacher would tell me what values were on the y axis, what values were on the x, the lowest point, the highest point, and usually the median or other information. From there I can get a pretty good idea of how far the line slopes and can give a decent description of the graph. Also, as Emily stated sometimes working with your teacher to modify the problems so that they don't require graphing at all may be beneficial, after all that's how the AP scores were set up. Ultimately, whether you can draw a graph or even describe it to a tee is not what's important; the issue of greatest importance is that you understand the concepts. So, if your teacher were to turn the question around, and describe a graph with data and ask you to interpret it, rather than giving you data and asking you to describe visually what the graph would look like, it would demonstrate that you know the material and understand it, while making it accessible and a lot easier to manage for you and your teacher. And, assuming the AP people have gotten hard and started giving diagrams in the tests, it would actually be good practice for what you'd see on the exam. I've done this or linear regressions, (which are only calculatable with a graphing calculator, which of course is not accessible). Once my teacher asked me to interpret a written formula instead of asking me to calculate one myself based on a data set I understood the concept so much better. Hope this helps, and best of luck in your course. I took AP Psych so I know how stressful working with diagrams could be, (Like Emily I was relieved when I didn't have a brain diagram to label on mmy exam as my teacher said "everyone" would), but try talking to your teacher to see if you can work out a system. On 2/26/13, Miso Kwak wrote: > Both to some extent. > I understand the concept and usually do fairly well on homework because > I can ask my teacher for help and such but I don't do well on my exams, > which weighs more than 50% of the grade. > During exams, I have a hard time both understanding and describing > graphs but test mainly involves describing rather than interpreting. > I agree that verbal description along with tactile will be helpful. > I know it sounds vague... I just feel lost and frustrated well because > I am not pulling grade I want and believe I could if both I and my > teacher were prepared better. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 04:27:28 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:27:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: <8D1D9900AE8B4587B33D37AD60743D72@nickPC> References: <512d5bec.e3053c0a.4903.ffffe299@mx.google.com> <8D1D9900AE8B4587B33D37AD60743D72@nickPC> Message-ID: Hi, Try looking at the Nimac files available from APH, and if they're available from bookshare all the better. Also, now Bookshare has a feature where you can read books online, so you may be able to find some of your texts that way. Also try NLS, as I've actually gotten a few things I've needed from there as well. Good luck. On 2/26/13, trising wrote: > Hi Jeff: > > Its Terri Wilcox. You know me from our NFB Affiliate and from Braille > Camp. I can help you with your Braille Reading speed. Remember, fast readers > do not move their lips when they read. Also, use all six fingers. The thumbs > and pinkies are not used, but the rest are used for reading Braille. The > left hand is more sensitive. If you use more fingers you will not have to > read each letter. You will begin to feel shapes of words and your speed will > increase drastically. Keep those palms up off the Braille. Cupped hands read > faster! Read with both hands together until you reach the last word. Then, > the left hand tracks back on the same line while the right hand gets the > last word. If you keep your fingers in contact with the Braille, you will > not lose speed. Please contact me if you would like help. > > Terri Wilcox > Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan > Ann Arbor Chapter President > Voice Lessons and Braille Tutoring available. Contact Terri Wilcox MA at > (734)663-4050 or at trising at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 04:36:29 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:36:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] knowing what someone looks like In-Reply-To: <458ED93F-9C0D-4EED-B154-1AA8FB11F18E@samobile.net> References: <007c01ce146b$b296da50$17c48ef0$@gmail.com> <458ED93F-9C0D-4EED-B154-1AA8FB11F18E@samobile.net> Message-ID: Hi, Chris. In high school I had this problem occasionally too. I have some vision so I was usually fine in a classroom or when I was in an area where a bunch of people all knew each other and I could just ask anyone to steer me in the direction of who I was looking for, but in cafeteria or other large open spaces I had this challenge too. One thing that really helped me was knowing something unique about the person's appearance that was always consistent. For example, I knew a girl with red hair who always wore a ponytail, and I knew another person who usually wore a denim jacket at least in the cold months. It may sound silly, but it's these random things which really help visual people spot a particular person. Sometimes asking for identifying information helps too; I've asked friends what they were planning to wear so that when we met for school functions I could ask someone to find them for me too. Try to pick out conspicuous details and use those as your identifyers more than "brown hair," or "tall," which are more general. And, if something is either always the same or is nearly always the same it saves you the trouble of looking for new identifying information every day. HTH. On 2/26/13, Jedi Moerke wrote: > It's probably a good idea to know what your significant others and good > friends look like for this sort of reason. I would just ask them. Your blind > friends will also know what they look like, so feel free to ask. For > example, I am blind and know that I have short brown hair. That's just an > example. If you're expecting to be in a crowd of people with a friend or > family member, you may want to find out what that individual's wearing that > day. That way, you can say I'm looking for the blind lady with dark > glasses, a long cane, short brown spiky hair, and a green T-shirt. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:53 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Some situations I have recently been in at school and in other places >> have >> caused me to think about a question which I would like to get your >> thoughts >> on. I have noticed that when identifying other people, sighted people >> often >> use information about their visual appearance. For example, they might >> say >> "He's the tall guy with dark hair." Sometimes, I have tried to refer to >> another person when talking with a sighted person and found it difficult >> for >> them to know who I'm talking about without information about how the >> person >> I'm referring to looks. For example, I have sometimes asked either >> another >> student or one of the adult supervisors in our school's cafeteria if they >> see a friend who I would like to sit with. I can tell them the name of my >> friend, but unless they know him/her, they can't tell me if they see them >> without asking somebody else who does. So, I'm wondering how important >> you >> have found knowing what someone looks like to be. If you have found it >> important at all, are there specific people you want or need to know this >> information about? Where do you get information about the visual >> appearance >> of someone; the person you want to know about, another friend, etc? I >> look >> forward to hearing your thoughts on this! >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair >> >> Public Relations Committee >> >> Maryland Association of Blind Students: a division of the National >> Federation of the Blind of Maryland >> >> Phone: (443) 547-2409 >> >> Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com >> >> Personal Twitter: @Chrisn98 >> >> MDABS Twitter: @MDMdabs >> >> Personal Facebook: www.facebook.com/dotkid >> >> Join the MDABS Facebook Group: search for Maryland Association of Blind >> Students >> >> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum >> >> >> >> "Together, we are changing what it means to be blind." - Motto of the >> Louisiana Center for the Blind >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 27 21:31:03 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: <42994.68.41.62.184.1361926672.squirrel@lavabit.com> References: <42994.68.41.62.184.1361926672.squirrel@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <96E9693C17E2466DA9C4B27CCE204D67@OwnerPC> Hello Jeff, What grade are you in? Unfortunately, some of the digital resources I can think of you'd have to pay for. I'll try to think of free ones. -----Original Message----- From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:57 PM To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital Dear Federationists, I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most out of my education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am pretty sure that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. I know that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them in, in a timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, braille is to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone could give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about this. My IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. thanks 73 kd8qiq Jeff Crouch _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Wed Feb 27 22:03:08 2013 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:03:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital In-Reply-To: <96E9693C17E2466DA9C4B27CCE204D67@OwnerPC> References: <42994.68.41.62.184.1361926672.squirrel@lavabit.com> <96E9693C17E2466DA9C4B27CCE204D67@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <30981.68.41.62.184.1362002588.squirrel@lavabit.com> i'm in the ninth grade. thanks 73 kd8qiq Jeff Crouch > Hello Jeff, > What grade are you in? > Unfortunately, some of the digital resources I can think of you'd have to > pay for. > I'll try to think of free ones. > > -----Original Message----- > From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:57 PM > To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] text books in digital > > Dear Federationists, > > I am having a major problem. I feel that for me to get the most out of my > education, i need all of my textbooks in digital format. I am pretty sure > that my school district is to poor to make them digital for me. I know > that i could complete my assignments much faster and turn them in, in a > timely manner. I am getting fustrated because for me right now, braille is > to slow for me trying to keep up in a genral ed class. If anyone could > give me some tips in what to do or how to approch my school about this. My > IEP is coming up sometime in the next month and 14 days. > > thanks > 73 > kd8qiq > Jeff Crouch > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Best information and news on the web! The content of our sites are and > will > always be FREE! > http://click.lavabit.com/9brkys6h39bh49944434r5efrqesyfdpidoi34wq7zinbxo6rtrb/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 27 23:50:46 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:50:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws and website help Message-ID: <73FF377755D945AB90681C7AC6324A40@OwnerPC> Hi all, I’m dealing with another accessibility problem. The community college, Nova, website has been redesigned. Specifically, the library part of the site is a mess in my opinion. Here is the layout. Instead of links like they had in the past, they now have four tabs. I usually tab to the links or use the links list. But when that did not work, I arrowed down the page. It was then that I realized these tabs. They are categorized. I liked it the old way when I could use the list links view by pressing insert f 7. The technology librarian explained that you open the tab and then click on the link you want within that tab. For instance, click on e media tab and then videos. Within that subtab are three links of various types of videos. I have a very difficult time even finding the tabs because as you all know, jaws doesn’t have a quick key for that. We can press H for heading, tab key to move to links, and l for list items, but nothing for the tabs. I finally was able to open the tabs with enter but I could not get out of it by pressing tab; so I pressed escape to then explore the rest of the page. So my questions. 1. Have you navigated tabs and how did you do it? Sighted people can expand one or multiple tabs at once and look through their options. 2. How do you know what links are in that tab versus just links on the page? 3. How do you know when you have to press the right mouse button? For me, it seems to be trial and error. If pressing enter does not work, I press the right mouse button key when I’m at that link. Oh and this might help me find items. What is that command to put place markers on the webpage? Thanks. Ashley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ nabs mailing list nabs at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs From ajschwichow at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 23:56:49 2013 From: ajschwichow at gmail.com (Alexa Schwichow) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:56:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question Message-ID: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Hello everyone, I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. For any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your paycheck was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 00:01:34 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:01:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws and website help In-Reply-To: <73FF377755D945AB90681C7AC6324A40@OwnerPC> References: <73FF377755D945AB90681C7AC6324A40@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, This might not solve all your problems with the tabs, but Control-F allows you to search for any words on the page. So you can search for the name of the tab, if you know what it's called, and then press enter on that. Arielle On 2/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m dealing with another accessibility problem. The community college, Nova, > website has been redesigned. > Specifically, the library part of the site is a mess in my opinion. Here is > the layout. Instead of links like they had in the past, they now have four > tabs. I usually tab to the links or use the links list. But when that did > not work, I arrowed down the page. It was then that I realized these tabs. > They are categorized. I liked it the old way when I could use the list links > view by pressing insert f 7. > > > The technology librarian explained that you open the tab and then click on > the link you want within that tab. For instance, click on e media tab and > then videos. Within that subtab are three links of various types of videos. > I have a very difficult time even finding the tabs because as you all know, > jaws doesn’t have a quick key for that. We can press H for heading, tab key > to move to links, and l for list items, but nothing for the tabs. > I finally was able to open the tabs with enter but I could not get out of it > by pressing tab; so I pressed escape to then explore the rest of the page. > So my questions. > 1. Have you navigated tabs and how did you do it? Sighted people can expand > one or multiple tabs at once and look through their options. > > 2. How do you know what links are in that tab versus just links on the page? > 3. How do you know when you have to press the right mouse button? For me, it > seems to be trial and error. If pressing enter does not work, I press the > right mouse button key when I’m at that link. > Oh and this might help me find items. What is that command to put place > markers on the webpage? > Thanks. > Ashley > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > nabs mailing list > nabs at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 00:07:14 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:07:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: Hi Alexa, These days you can usually sign up to have the money from your paycheck automatically deposited into your bank account. To do this, you will need to open a checking account if you don't yet have one, and then give your employer a blank check from the checkbook that you get from the bank. Usually on your first day of a new job, someone will ask you if you want to sign up for direct deposit. After you sign up for direct deposit, you can check your bank balance on payday using online and phone banking to find out how much money was added to your account. If for some reason your employer doesn't provide direct deposit, then you can ask someone in the HR department to tell you what is written on the check when you get it, or find out how much it is when you take it to the bank to be cashed or deposited into your account. Do you know yet where you will be attending college? Best, Arielle On 2/27/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: > Hello everyone, > I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. For > any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your paycheck > was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 00:49:50 2013 From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:49:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: Hi, I don't know exactly whether you are working just to have a job or actually doing work study, but if you are doing the latter most colleges will also have the option of having your check go directly towards paying off your school bill. A lot of my friends at school do this. It may seem like you're not getting any money, but in reality it frees up the money you would have otherwise paid towards tuition out of your own pocket, (and your parents will appreciate that you're doing something to help cover the costs too). That may also be something to look into. Whether it is work study or not, you may also be able to check online what the checks will be. For example, my college has a site which you use to apply for campus jobs. ON each job listing it has all the information, including the hourly wage. Depending on your schedule and how much you can work per week you could always just do the quick math yourself if a site with that information exists for your school. Most schools have centers for student employment or something like that, so if you're really interested you can try getting ahold of the centers from a few of the schools you've applied to to ask for some information as well. Good luck in choosing your school! On 2/27/13, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Alexa, > These days you can usually sign up to have the money from your > paycheck automatically deposited into your bank account. To do this, > you will need to open a checking account if you don't yet have one, > and then give your employer a blank check from the checkbook that you > get from the bank. Usually on your first day of a new job, someone > will ask you if you want to sign up for direct deposit. After you sign > up for direct deposit, you can check your bank balance on payday using > online and phone banking to find out how much money was added to your > account. If for some reason your employer doesn't provide direct > deposit, then you can ask someone in the HR department to tell you > what is written on the check when you get it, or find out how much it > is when you take it to the bank to be cashed or deposited into your > account. > Do you know yet where you will be attending college? > Best, > Arielle > > On 2/27/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. >> For >> any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your >> paycheck >> was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com > -- Kaiti From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 28 00:49:49 2013 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:49:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: Alexa, I suggest using someone sighted you trust. I'd first calculate my paycheck amount by multiplying number of hours times the wage. For instance, 15 hours times 8 dollars an hour. So 15 times 8. This equals 120. So this is 120 dollars without taxes taken out. If you are good at math, compute the taxes too. To do this, find out the percent of tax rate and multiply that by your full pay amount. For instance lets say 20 percent was taxed. That is .2 as a decimal. So the equation is .2 times 120. That equals 24. Then subtract the taxes amount from the total pay. This gives you an idea of what your check should be. Then you will get your check in the mail or hr will hand it to you. BTW, I've had both happen in summer jobs. If mailed, ask someone at home. As a college student, hopefully you have good relationships with family. Ask them to be a reader for you. If its handed to you at work, it should be in a sealed envelope. Ask the hr representative to tell you the amount. But, sometimes, employers do automatic deposit. in that case, check your balance via phone. You will get a list of deposits there. If you work the same amount of hours weekly, you should be able to easily calculate your monthly income before your checks arrive; I do this for planning purposes when I've worked. Simply take your weekly salary and times by four, since four weeks per month. If you don't work the same amount, you can still add it up, but you will need to add it week by week. You can do this in excel or via a calculator. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Alexa Schwichow Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:56 PM To: NABS Mailing List Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question Hello everyone, I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. For any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your paycheck was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 01:05:31 2013 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:05:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: And if you are living in the dorms, you may not b able to use family to read mail, but you can hire someone to read it to you and give them a few bucks or buy them a coffee each time you meet with them to go through mail. If you don't get much mail and just want someone to tell you your paycheck amount, again, it's probably fine to just ask the bank teller when you go to the bank to deposit or cash the check. Arielle On 2/27/13, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Alexa, > I suggest using someone sighted you trust. I'd first calculate my paycheck > amount by multiplying number of hours times the wage. For instance, 15 hours > > times 8 dollars an hour. > So 15 times 8. > This equals 120. So this is 120 dollars without taxes taken out. If you are > > good at math, compute the taxes too. To do this, find out the percent of tax > > rate and multiply that by your full pay amount. > For instance lets say 20 percent was taxed. That is .2 as a decimal. So the > > equation is .2 times 120. > That equals 24. Then subtract the taxes amount from the total pay. > > This gives you an idea of what your check should be. Then you will get your > > check in the mail or hr will hand it to you. BTW, I've had both happen in > summer jobs. If mailed, ask someone at home. As a college student, hopefully > > you have good relationships with family. Ask them to be a reader for you. If > > its handed to you at work, it should be in a sealed envelope. > Ask the hr representative to tell you the amount. But, sometimes, employers > > do automatic deposit. in that case, check your balance via phone. You will > get a list of deposits there. > > If you work the same amount of hours weekly, you should be able to easily > calculate your monthly income before your checks arrive; I do this for > planning purposes when I've worked. > Simply take your weekly salary and times by four, since four weeks per > month. > If you don't work the same amount, you can still add it up, but you will > need to add it week by week. You can do this in excel or via a calculator. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexa Schwichow > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:56 PM > To: NABS Mailing List > Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question > > Hello everyone, > I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. For > > any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your paycheck > > was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 01:14:12 2013 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:14:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: <0489E6F0-74C0-40A3-9939-BE444CBF6317@gmail.com> I am lucky to work for the state, and I can check online to see how much I've earned and how much was taken out for taxes, medicare, etc. Usually, even if you sign up for direct deposit, you will have to get a paper check for the first paycheck. Also, if you don't have a checkbook, you will need your bank's routing number and your account number to sign up for direct deposit. You can get your routing number by calling or visiting a bank, and you can access your account number by accessing your account online or on the phone. It's always a good idea to note those numbers somewhere. You never know when you'll need to call your bank and provide identifying information before you receive help with your account. Cindy Bennett Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington Secretary: National Association of Blind Students B.A. Psychology: UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Alexa, > I suggest using someone sighted you trust. I'd first calculate my paycheck amount by multiplying number of hours times the wage. For instance, 15 hours times 8 dollars an hour. > So 15 times 8. > This equals 120. So this is 120 dollars without taxes taken out. If you are good at math, compute the taxes too. To do this, find out the percent of tax rate and multiply that by your full pay amount. > For instance lets say 20 percent was taxed. That is .2 as a decimal. So the equation is .2 times 120. > That equals 24. Then subtract the taxes amount from the total pay. > > This gives you an idea of what your check should be. Then you will get your check in the mail or hr will hand it to you. BTW, I've had both happen in summer jobs. If mailed, ask someone at home. As a college student, hopefully you have good relationships with family. Ask them to be a reader for you. If its handed to you at work, it should be in a sealed envelope. > Ask the hr representative to tell you the amount. But, sometimes, employers do automatic deposit. in that case, check your balance via phone. You will get a list of deposits there. > > If you work the same amount of hours weekly, you should be able to easily calculate your monthly income before your checks arrive; I do this for planning purposes when I've worked. > Simply take your weekly salary and times by four, since four weeks per month. > If you don't work the same amount, you can still add it up, but you will need to add it week by week. You can do this in excel or via a calculator. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Alexa Schwichow > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:56 PM > To: NABS Mailing List > Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question > > Hello everyone, > I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. For any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your paycheck was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From ajschwichow at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 01:38:08 2013 From: ajschwichow at gmail.com (Alexa Schwichow) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:38:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: Thank you so very much for the help! I plan to attend Marquette University. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Paycheck question > Hi Alexa, > These days you can usually sign up to have the money from your > paycheck automatically deposited into your bank account. To do this, > you will need to open a checking account if you don't yet have one, > and then give your employer a blank check from the checkbook that you > get from the bank. Usually on your first day of a new job, someone > will ask you if you want to sign up for direct deposit. After you sign > up for direct deposit, you can check your bank balance on payday using > online and phone banking to find out how much money was added to your > account. If for some reason your employer doesn't provide direct > deposit, then you can ask someone in the HR department to tell you > what is written on the check when you get it, or find out how much it > is when you take it to the bank to be cashed or deposited into your > account. > Do you know yet where you will be attending college? > Best, > Arielle > > On 2/27/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. >> For >> any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your >> paycheck >> was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 03:17:45 2013 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:17:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> Message-ID: <5B5098CA51FB4DB291125672EDB3A910@acerd37f251f21> Hi, Also, most paychecks are typed out rather than handwritten, so you might be able to scan it with OCR software and read it if direct deposit is not offered. Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Paycheck question > Hi Alexa, > These days you can usually sign up to have the money from your > paycheck automatically deposited into your bank account. To do this, > you will need to open a checking account if you don't yet have one, > and then give your employer a blank check from the checkbook that you > get from the bank. Usually on your first day of a new job, someone > will ask you if you want to sign up for direct deposit. After you sign > up for direct deposit, you can check your bank balance on payday using > online and phone banking to find out how much money was added to your > account. If for some reason your employer doesn't provide direct > deposit, then you can ask someone in the HR department to tell you > what is written on the check when you get it, or find out how much it > is when you take it to the bank to be cashed or deposited into your > account. > Do you know yet where you will be attending college? > Best, > Arielle > > On 2/27/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. >> For >> any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your >> paycheck >> was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 11:39:56 2013 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:39:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Spyware Removal Programs Message-ID: Hi All, I’m wondering if you would know of any spyware removal programs that are completely accessible with JAWS? I’ve tried addaware and Spybot, and those are okay but not completely accessible. I don’t mean antivirus, I mean spyware removal! Ian From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 14:45:55 2013 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:45:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Paycheck question In-Reply-To: <5B5098CA51FB4DB291125672EDB3A910@acerd37f251f21> References: <104C47707F4C422C87BAE96252F0A34D@alexalaptop> <5B5098CA51FB4DB291125672EDB3A910@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Hi all, Alexa, congratulations! College is such an exciting experience! All of the suggestions above are great. I tend to like to read my own mail if at all possible, using Kurzweil, or other OCR software. For checks, you are usually given a letter type paper, folded into three sections. For the first check, you should figure out which third of the letter is actually the portion that tells you the hours, rate etc. You can then just scan that. Usually they are folded the same way each time. The problem with trying to scan the whole thing, is that there is information on top and bottom, which doesn't usually get OCRed correctly. Also, you can find your banks routing number by simply running a google search for the bank, and location. Thanks. Mary On 2/27/13, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi, > Also, most paychecks are typed out rather than handwritten, so you might be > > able to scan it with OCR software and read it if direct deposit is not > offered. > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Paycheck question > > >> Hi Alexa, >> These days you can usually sign up to have the money from your >> paycheck automatically deposited into your bank account. To do this, >> you will need to open a checking account if you don't yet have one, >> and then give your employer a blank check from the checkbook that you >> get from the bank. Usually on your first day of a new job, someone >> will ask you if you want to sign up for direct deposit. After you sign >> up for direct deposit, you can check your bank balance on payday using >> online and phone banking to find out how much money was added to your >> account. If for some reason your employer doesn't provide direct >> deposit, then you can ask someone in the HR department to tell you >> what is written on the check when you get it, or find out how much it >> is when you take it to the bank to be cashed or deposited into your >> account. >> Do you know yet where you will be attending college? >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 2/27/13, Alexa Schwichow wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> I am starting college in August, and I am planning on having a job. >>> For >>> any of you who had jobs during college, how did you know what your >>> paycheck >>> was? Did someone read it to you? Please help if you can. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou