[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Fri Feb 1 18:22:39 UTC 2013

I forgot, for me, even something like reading poetry you need braille.
Yes you can obviously do it electronic, but I don't know how to
explain, but I somehow connect more with the poem and can really
meditate properly about a poem when its in braille.

On 2/1/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in
> pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm
> listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry
> on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to
> read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With
> jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences
> are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go
> back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to
> say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a
> book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I
> have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I
> find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder
> to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use
> something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is
> written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written
> at the beginning of the line.
> Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example
> the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille
> is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more.
> Ari
> On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Ari!
>> In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program
>> like that.
>> At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe
>> Braille,
>> as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for
>> some
>> reason.
>> That was stupid, (in my oppinion!)
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis
>> [aridamoulakis at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>
>> Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a
>> library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books
>> on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be.
>> Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is
>> what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille
>> books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy
>> braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have
>> bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a
>> model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille
>> and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from
>> there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy,
>> because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they
>> do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is
>> they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as
>> part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have
>> seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the
>> crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have
>> relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the
>> books to you.
>> Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it
>> in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the
>> online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone
>> or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will
>> see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them,
>> but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here
>> you'll be very happy.
>> http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/
>> Ari
>> On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Braille is an interesting topic!
>>> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail!
>>> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in
>>> college.)
>>> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday.
>>> Those chapters are so long!
>>> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures?
>>> I don't need all of that!
>>> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave
>>> out
>>> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the
>>> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia.
>>> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need
>>> to
>>> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours!
>>> That's not efficient at all!
>>> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as
>>> opposed to audio!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman
>>> [arielle71 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good
>>> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume
>>> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities
>>> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also
>>> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of
>>> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their
>>> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning
>>> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the
>>> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like
>>> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all
>>> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is
>>> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high
>>> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified
>>> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ari,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving
>>>> braille instruction in schools.  There has been a campaign going on
>>>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even
>>>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for
>>>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the
>>>> visually impaired who can teach those skills.  This means that some
>>>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a
>>>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they
>>>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to
>>>> teach them.  In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will
>>>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and
>>>> parts of a city.  My county educational service center had 3 braille
>>>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students
>>>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a
>>>> large city.  We need more braille teachers really badly.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school
>>>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind.  She is an
>>>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi
>>>> after she gets her undergrad done.  I keep telling her to hurry up and
>>>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ari and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree as well.  I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as
>>>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted,
>>>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go,
>>>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I
>>>>> love to read hard copy braille books.  The NLS is great and I'm happy
>>>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep
>>>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something.  I agree
>>>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not
>>>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about
>>>>> 20 or 25 dollars max.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn
>>>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or
>>>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be
>>>>> literate.  Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or
>>>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally
>>>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I
>>>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler.  The
>>>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the
>>>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their
>>>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success.
>>>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of.  But,
>>>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> United States. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the
>>>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do
>>>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not
>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the
>>>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs
>>>>>>> $20-30,
>>>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone
>>>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a
>>>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and
>>>>>>> audio,
>>>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
>>>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not
>>>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and
>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a  lovely
>>>>>>> thing!
>>>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you
>>>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking
>>>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to
>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
>>>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
>>>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he
>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille.
>>>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal
>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to
>>>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these
>>>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the
>>>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't
>>>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6
>>>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible
>>>>>>> prices
>>>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an
>>>>>>> electronic
>>>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic
>>>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't
>>>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if
>>>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices
>>>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to
>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
>>>>>>> Ari
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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