[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Fri Feb 1 18:23:13 UTC 2013

PDF's are a real pain in the rear!
I use Jaws 10.0, and the only way I can convert PDF's is through RoboBraille!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis [aridamoulakis at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:15 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Those two are really interesting points Joshua. I get my books here in
pdf, and I often find it difficult to carry on concentrating when I'm
listening with jaws. It gets boring quite quickly, so I have to carry
on taking brakes. And when it is a complex book, I like to be able to
read by word because it helps me understand the sentence better. With
jaws you often read by line or sentence, and sometimes the sentences
are so complex and jaws reads it too fast that you sort of have to go
back and listen to it again to work out what the author was trying to
say. And with braille, yes you love the idea you can scan through a
book. Why I also love paper braille more then electronic, is suppose I
have to find paragraph 27. With paper I can move my hand down till I
find the number. With electronic you have to try page down, its harder
to try find for example the paragraph, and you also can't really use
something like the find command, becuase then it finds everytime 27 is
written, there is no exact way to make it find the 27 that is written
at the beginning of the line.
Also when I'm reading something I want to meditate on like for example
the Bible or a very complex book, another reason why I prefer braille
is you just relax more and you can control the way you read more.
Ari
On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> Ari!
> In the state of Arkansas, (USA,) where I live, we used to have a program
> like that.
> At the Rightsville Prison, they would teach innmates to transcribe Braille,
> as part of their rehabilitation, but they shut that program down, for some
> reason.
> That was stupid, (in my oppinion!)
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ari Damoulakis
> [aridamoulakis at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:54 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>
> Thanks guys, first, yeah I'm obviously not there, but we've got a
> library here and its not too bad. I do struggle sometimes to get books
> on things I want to read, but thank God its not as bad as it could be.
> Kaiti, you are looking for Harry Potter in braille to keep? This is
> what's so great about what they are doing in the UK. Their braille
> books are very cheap. Even though you are in America you can buy
> braille books cheap from RNIB. Even though I'm not english I have
> bought some books and they are really not expensive. They've got a
> model where they actually do try charge nearly the same for braille
> and print books, for example I got a 30 volume German dictionary from
> there and it really wasn't bad. I think they do a great strategy,
> because they do two things about transcription. As far as I know they
> do try find electronic files or scan books, but what they also do is
> they teach people from prisons how to transcribe and they do this as
> part of their rehabilitation. OK some books are expensive, like I have
> seen text books there for nearly 100 pounds, but its nothing like the
> crazy prices I'm seeing you guys are being asked to pay. If you have
> relatives in England, even easier then so they can order and send the
> books to you.
> Kaiti to find Harry Potter and the price, go to this site and type it
> in the edit box. Unfortunately us from outside the UK can't use the
> online shop, so can't register on the site, you have to order by phone
> or get a person there to do it for you and just send them. You will
> see a lot of daisy books there, but for some reason we can't buy them,
> but the braille we can buy and I'm sure when you see the prices here
> you'll be very happy.
> http://booksite.rnib.org.uk/eDelivery/
> Ari
> On 2/1/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Braille is an interesting topic!
>> I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail!
>> It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in
>> college.)
>> I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday.
>> Those chapters are so long!
>> Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures?
>> I don't need all of that!
>> I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and leave out
>> all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into Braille for the
>> blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia.
>> With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I need
>> to
>> know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours!
>> That's not efficient at all!
>> We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, as
>> opposed to audio!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman
>> [arielle71 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>
>> Hi all,
>> The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good
>> portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume
>> means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities
>> that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also
>> includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of
>> kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their
>> vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning
>> how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the
>> proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like
>> 15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all
>> because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is
>> probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high
>> enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified
>> as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>>
>>> Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving
>>> braille instruction in schools.  There has been a campaign going on
>>> for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even
>>> more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for
>>> braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the
>>> visually impaired who can teach those skills.  This means that some
>>> areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a
>>> child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they
>>> usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to
>>> teach them.  In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will
>>> have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and
>>> parts of a city.  My county educational service center had 3 braille
>>> teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students
>>> spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a
>>> large city.  We need more braille teachers really badly.
>>>
>>> Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school
>>> with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind.  She is an
>>> intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi
>>> after she gets her undergrad done.  I keep telling her to hurry up and
>>> graduate since we need her in the field ASAP.  :)
>>>
>>> On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ari and all,
>>>>
>>>> I agree as well.  I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as
>>>> Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted,
>>>> not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go,
>>>> but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I
>>>> love to read hard copy braille books.  The NLS is great and I'm happy
>>>> that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep
>>>> certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something.  I agree
>>>> that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not
>>>> te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about
>>>> 20 or 25 dollars max.
>>>>
>>>> The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn
>>>> braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or
>>>> tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be
>>>> literate.  Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or
>>>> technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally
>>>> died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I
>>>> didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler.  The
>>>> worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the
>>>> parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their
>>>> kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success.
>>>> It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of.  But,
>>>> hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On 2/1/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>> That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in
>>>>> the
>>>>> United States. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
>>>>>> library
>>>>>> for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the
>>>>>> national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do
>>>>>> appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must
>>>>>> learn
>>>>>> print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the
>>>>>> bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs
>>>>>> $20-30,
>>>>>> braille shouldn't cost that much more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone
>>>>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I
>>>>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a
>>>>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and
>>>>>> audio,
>>>>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
>>>>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not
>>>>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I
>>>>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and
>>>>>> read
>>>>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or
>>>>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a  lovely
>>>>>> thing!
>>>>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you
>>>>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking
>>>>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help
>>>>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have
>>>>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
>>>>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
>>>>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he
>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that
>>>>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille.
>>>>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books
>>>>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to
>>>>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these
>>>>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the
>>>>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't
>>>>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if
>>>>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6
>>>>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices
>>>>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic
>>>>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic
>>>>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't
>>>>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if
>>>>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really want
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices
>>>>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to
>>>>>> read
>>>>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
>>>>>> Ari
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
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