From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 00:00:39 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:00:39 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi
Message-ID: <50e22731.c84e420a.594a.568b@mx.google.com>

 Ok that's good.  I hope to get WiFi soon so I can get Frotz.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:12:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi

Hey sarah
This is LaVonnya.  u do not need wi fi to deal with the money 
APP.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:52, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I 
need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb.  But I don't have it.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.

 Good morning,
 Let me start buy unraveling a mystery.  Yes, it is William 
O'Donnell.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 thank u.  let me try it.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

 The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions.  
Press the write and left arrow together.   from my iPad

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 where are the navagation fntions.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

 Good afternoon,
 Pages works similarly to word on a PC.  You can edit and draft 
text in various forms.  Secondly,  you are able to utilize the 
functions as you would use in word,.  Functions include options 
for editing text, and even giving your file a file name.  Arrow 
keys will work as they normally do.  Are you using Voice-over? If 
so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off.
 Have a good eveningg.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi all,
 Does any  1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad.  Is it 
just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue 
tooth keyboard.  Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a 
windows keyboard?
 Thanks
 LaVonnya

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  1 00:53:25 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
In-Reply-To: <E21C0B3B-6461-4DF3-BE71-8A16565BB783@gmail.com>
References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com><000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com><DA3A0EBC1074488BB60E223E18D5C47C@OwnerPC><DA248073-A12D-4762-B64B-3DD8D76E351F@gmail.com><1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC>
	<E21C0B3B-6461-4DF3-BE71-8A16565BB783@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A6AF842125D4E3D91A6AD08BF83BC59@OwnerPC>

I just set up skype but I'm trying to figure out how to use it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.

ashley, r u on voxer, skype, face book, tango, or anythin like tht.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:01, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Lavonya,
> sure, send me a link about pages and how it works with pcs and email.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:10 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>
> hi ashley
> you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the 
> link for youtube.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod 
>> touch, iPhone and Ipad.
>> Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not 
>> have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its 
>> compatibility with  a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can 
>> you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a 
>> pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing 
>> service to access it on the internet?
>> This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, 
>> will voice over
>> announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean 
>> how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the 
>> screen itself or other thing like external keyboard?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>
>> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. 
>> An
>> iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone
>> please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone!
>> Best,
>> Sophie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>
>> Hi,
>> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering
>> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word
>> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad 
>> or
>> if it works for both.
>> Thanks,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>
>>
>> Good afternoon,
>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC.  You can edit and draft text in
>> various forms.  Secondly,  you are able to utilize the functions as you
>> would use in word,.  Functions include options for editing text, and even
>> giving your file a file name.  Arrow keys will work as they normally do.
>> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions
>> are turned off.
>> Have a good eveningg.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner"
>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Does any  1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad.  Is it just 
>> like
>> word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard.
>> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard?
>> Thanks
>> LaVonnya
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>> ail.com
>>
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>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>
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>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
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>>
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>> om
>>
>>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  1 00:55:35 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:55:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com><D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC><-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid><CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com><EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com><D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC><auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com><CALAYQJBujKG_S6nbqwXfTT8VC-RmwK6JrkHMu8h4XRSCs+8YwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>

Lavonya,
unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 
2000 dollars, even small displays.
I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford 
them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to 
afford even if you have a job.
If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a 
reason for it though.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

that is still a lot of money. good greef.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
> Arielle
>
> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>
>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
>>> is for my 2 blind friends.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch 
>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to 
>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  1 00:55:50 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:55:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <AEC7B4B5-DE8F-4350-99A4-1C6531616947@gmail.com>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com><D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC><-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid><CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com><EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com><D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC><auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<AEC7B4B5-DE8F-4350-99A4-1C6531616947@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D4CB2683932444CBD994DFC8F96A6F7@OwnerPC>

thanks, I got them.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

ashley, i just sent u 2 links to youtube. if u would like anything else feel 
free to ask me. i love doing things like this. helping people makes me 
smile.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:10, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>
> Dave
>
> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>
>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is 
>> for my 2 blind friends.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>          Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>> recently
>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to 
>>>>>> us,
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a 
>>>>>> color
>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are 
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com

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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 01:10:38 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:10:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <2D4CB2683932444CBD994DFC8F96A6F7@OwnerPC>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com>
	<D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC>
	<-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com>
	<D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC>
	<auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<AEC7B4B5-DE8F-4350-99A4-1C6531616947@gmail.com>
	<2D4CB2683932444CBD994DFC8F96A6F7@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7760BE21-06FA-4862-89D3-53EA9E43E0A6@gmail.com>

no problem. there easy to find. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> thanks, I got them.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> ashley, i just sent u 2 links to youtube. if u would like anything else feel free to ask me. i love doing things like this. helping people makes me smile.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:10, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> 
>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>> 
>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for my 2 blind friends.
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>         Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color
>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 01:13:55 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:13:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com>
	<D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC>
	<-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com>
	<D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC>
	<auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CALAYQJBujKG_S6nbqwXfTT8VC-RmwK6JrkHMu8h4XRSCs+8YwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
	<4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <D25FF122-6294-4E5C-8491-C05B24F8CC82@gmail.com>

that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Lavonya,
> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a reason for it though.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>> 
>>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
>>>> is for my 2 blind friends.
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>         Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 01:15:16 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:15:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
In-Reply-To: <7A6AF842125D4E3D91A6AD08BF83BC59@OwnerPC>
References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com>
	<000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com>
	<DA3A0EBC1074488BB60E223E18D5C47C@OwnerPC>
	<DA248073-A12D-4762-B64B-3DD8D76E351F@gmail.com>
	<1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC>
	<E21C0B3B-6461-4DF3-BE71-8A16565BB783@gmail.com>
	<7A6AF842125D4E3D91A6AD08BF83BC59@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E1142E4F-80B3-4B52-8874-573F0CBC94F9@gmail.com>

would u like some help, if so, u may e me off list. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:53, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I just set up skype but I'm trying to figure out how to use it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
> 
> ashley, r u on voxer, skype, face book, tango, or anythin like tht.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:01, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Lavonya,
>> sure, send me a link about pages and how it works with pcs and email.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:10 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>> 
>> hi ashley
>> you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the link for youtube.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad.
>>> Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with  a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet?
>>> This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over
>>> announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>> 
>>> Sophie,
>>> 
>>> Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM
>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>> 
>>> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An
>>> iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone
>>> please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone!
>>> Best,
>>> Sophie
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering
>>> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word
>>> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or
>>> if it works for both.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Good afternoon,
>>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC.  You can edit and draft text in
>>> various forms.  Secondly,  you are able to utilize the functions as you
>>> would use in word,.  Functions include options for editing text, and even
>>> giving your file a file name.  Arrow keys will work as they normally do.
>>> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions
>>> are turned off.
>>> Have a good eveningg.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner"
>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> Does any  1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad.  Is it just like
>>> word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard.
>>> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard?
>>> Thanks
>>> LaVonnya
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
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>>> ail.com
>>> 
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>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> r%40gmail.com
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>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 01:42:43 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:42:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <D25FF122-6294-4E5C-8491-C05B24F8CC82@gmail.com>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com>
	<D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC>
	<-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com>
	<D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC>
	<auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CALAYQJBujKG_S6nbqwXfTT8VC-RmwK6JrkHMu8h4XRSCs+8YwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
	<4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>
	<D25FF122-6294-4E5C-8491-C05B24F8CC82@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1CB06860-252F-4D77-A88D-7BE8DFD6C1ED@gmail.com>

Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Lavonya,
>> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
>> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
>> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a reason for it though.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>> 
>> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>>> 
>>>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
>>>>> is for my 2 blind friends.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>        Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
>>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 01:52:08 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:52:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <1CB06860-252F-4D77-A88D-7BE8DFD6C1ED@gmail.com>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com>
	<D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC>
	<-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com>
	<D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC>
	<auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CALAYQJBujKG_S6nbqwXfTT8VC-RmwK6JrkHMu8h4XRSCs+8YwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
	<4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>
	<D25FF122-6294-4E5C-8491-C05B24F8CC82@gmail.com>
	<1CB06860-252F-4D77-A88D-7BE8DFD6C1ED@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0C1DB2E-46AF-477E-99BA-D434D38460F7@gmail.com>

ulld someone b willing to give me a list of apps for the blind  or even how to get to some please. if u want to, u may e me off list, or on list. 
thanks 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Dec 31, 2012, at 20:42, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working. 
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>> 
>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Lavonya,
>>> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
>>> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
>>> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a reason for it though.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>> 
>>> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
>>>>>> is for my 2 blind friends.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>       Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
>>>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 04:22:24 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:22:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <1CB06860-252F-4D77-A88D-7BE8DFD6C1ED@gmail.com>
References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com>
	<D632A4BE91FD4E7F9BBAA90896AAAD1B@nickPC>
	<-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid>
	<CALAYQJCPH2qh7aLcRi57RWpLhnfO+m6=Mjvd-a+0OOeYn1uHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD0d_9=Ou6vDjLobe1pHQywUdkGAhaOyDRpuNAL7F0TrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA59F886-F31D-4B9C-B05F-994E60C994AE@gmail.com>
	<D5BBBDCAE74B4AD89791F8961F332997@OwnerPC>
	<auto-000092052025@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CALAYQJBujKG_S6nbqwXfTT8VC-RmwK6JrkHMu8h4XRSCs+8YwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com>
	<4E8E68FE2B4E4E5992EABC6A4BC73EAF@OwnerPC>
	<D25FF122-6294-4E5C-8491-C05B24F8CC82@gmail.com>
	<1CB06860-252F-4D77-A88D-7BE8DFD6C1ED@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-2098135297212227374@unknownmsgid>

Hope, LaVonya, and all,

Don't forget that you can use a BrailleNote Apex or a BrailleSense U2
as a bluetooth Braille display with an iPhone or another iOS device.
So if you have either of those note takers, no stand-alone display is
needed.

LaVonya, If you are interested in getting a braille display for your
iPad and you don't have one of the notetakers I mentioned above,
please write me off list and I can give you some information on an
additional source of funding available to students in Maryland.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Lavonya,
>>> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
>>> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
>>> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a reason for it though.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>
>>> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
>>>>>> is for my 2 blind friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
>>>>>>> and helps you get around the touch screen.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What is BlindSquare?
>>>>>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
>>>>>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
>>>>>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
>>>>>>>> how accessible it is.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Terri,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
>>>>>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
>>>>>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
>>>>>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
>>>>>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
>>>>>>>>> contact me. Happy new year!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
>>>>>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
>>>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
>>>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 06:49:38 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 00:49:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
Message-ID: <50e28702.624fec0a.54aa.ffff9375@mx.google.com>

Lavonya, this isn't a complete list of apps for the blind--it's 
just the ones I use and am most familiar with.
Aid Colors: very accurate color identifier
Looktell Money Reader: Again, very accurate.
Saytext: This is an OCR scanner for the iPhone.
RizWiz: This app is cool because it's run by live people, not a 
computer. You snap a picture of the object you want to identify, 
then record a question. Picture and question are sent to a living 
person, who then answers it. This allows you to get more specific 
with your question than you could with a computer-run app.
I would like to know of any GPS apps that do turn by turn 
navigation because I'm not very good at getting around and will 
need that. Hope this helps, and hope everyone had a good New 
Year's Eve!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:52:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

ulld someone b willing to give me a list of apps for the blind  
or even how to get to some please. if u want to, u may e me off 
list, or on list.
thanks

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 20:42, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 
1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone 
or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on 
a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not 
working.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" 
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

 Lavonya,
 unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them 
are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
 I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could 
afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so 
this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
 If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you 
justify a reason for it though.

 Ashley

 -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

 that is still a lot of money. good greef.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman 
<arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
 It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.

 Dave

 At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
 Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?

 -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

 is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. 
this
 is for my 2 blind friends.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman 
<arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the 
iPhone
 and helps you get around the touch screen.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 What is BlindSquare?
 I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting 
your
 location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
 doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not 
sure
 how accessible it is.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Terri,

 Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money 
reader.
 For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try 
Navigon or
 Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points 
of
 interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have 
any
 questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel 
free to
 contact me. Happy new year!

 Chris Nusbaum

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:

       Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We 
recently
 acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We 
also
 recently
 acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch 
screen,
 but
 my
 husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new 
to us,
 will
 you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, 
a
 color
 identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who 
are
 new
 to
 the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.

 Sincerely,
 Terri Wilcox


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From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  1 08:34:15 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 03:34:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
In-Reply-To: <2F19DA59-96CE-4440-ADAD-BBF31498A8D3@gmail.com>
References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS422547444438A57516A2712DC3C0@phx.gbl>
	<77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com>
	<BLU403-EAS70610FCCFA92B07DD0226DDC3C0@phx.gbl>
	<3EB48A32-79EA-4EA1-B333-3B12067EF2DE@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS321C471C919A82E076A66F0DC3C0@phx.gbl>
	<2F19DA59-96CE-4440-ADAD-BBF31498A8D3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS608AC958E5E70607DB1D8ADC230@phx.gbl>

Sounds good, have a great day.  

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:19 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi william
> this is lavonnya. do u want some cool apps for yohur pad. i can send them to u
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:38, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Good morning,
>> Let me start buy unraveling a mystery.  Yes, it is William O'Donnell.  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> thank u. let me try it. 
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions.  Press the write and left arrow together.   from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> where are the navagation fntions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good afternoon,
>>>>>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC.  You can edit and draft text in various forms.  Secondly,  you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,.  Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name.  Arrow keys will work as they normally do.  Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off.
>>>>>> Have a good eveningg.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> Does any  1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad.  Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard?
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> LaVonnya
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  1 08:35:42 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 03:35:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
In-Reply-To: <DA3A0EBC1074488BB60E223E18D5C47C@OwnerPC>
References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com>
	<000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com>
	<DA3A0EBC1074488BB60E223E18D5C47C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS330FAF5AF4ABA7C15A95CD7DC230@phx.gbl>

Yes,
You can email the created documents to yourself.  Go to:
Tools, share/print, etc.  Follow the instructions for doing this.


Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:31 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad.
> Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with  a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet?
> This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over
> announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard?
> 
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
> 
> Sophie,
> 
> Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
> 
> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An
> iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone
> please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone!
> Best,
> Sophie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
> 
> Hi,
> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering
> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word
> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or
> if it works for both.
> Thanks,
> Misty
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad.
> 
> 
> Good afternoon,
> Pages works similarly to word on a PC.  You can edit and draft text in
> various forms.  Secondly,  you are able to utilize the functions as you
> would use in word,.  Functions include options for editing text, and even
> giving your file a file name.  Arrow keys will work as they normally do.
> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions
> are turned off.
> Have a good eveningg.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner"
> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Does any  1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad.  Is it just  like
> word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard.
> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard?
> Thanks
> LaVonnya
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
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> om
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 15:00:51 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 10:00:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <50e28702.624fec0a.54aa.ffff9375@mx.google.com>
References: <50e28702.624fec0a.54aa.ffff9375@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <645FBD08-56CD-4A27-AE51-F18113490BF3@gmail.com>

vizwiz sounds cool, i may have to get creative with how i record my question. i wonder if it will pick up my dynavox. i use mostly sign language. i can talk in spirts. not for very log. and i don't get to choose when i can and cannot speak. i did find a bingo game that works with voice over. it reads every part of the game. so for thoes who have children, neeses or neffews, and want to work on math, that will work well. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:49, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lavonya, this isn't a complete list of apps for the blind--it's just the ones I use and am most familiar with.
> Aid Colors: very accurate color identifier
> Looktell Money Reader: Again, very accurate.
> Saytext: This is an OCR scanner for the iPhone.
> RizWiz: This app is cool because it's run by live people, not a computer. You snap a picture of the object you want to identify, then record a question. Picture and question are sent to a living person, who then answers it. This allows you to get more specific with your question than you could with a computer-run app.
> I would like to know of any GPS apps that do turn by turn navigation because I'm not very good at getting around and will need that. Hope this helps, and hope everyone had a good New Year's Eve!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:52:08 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> ulld someone b willing to give me a list of apps for the blind  or even how to get to some please. if u want to, u may e me off list, or on list.
> thanks
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 20:42, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Lavonya,
> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost 2000 dollars, even small displays.
> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to afford even if you have a job.
> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a reason for it though.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this
> is for my 2 blind friends.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone
> and helps you get around the touch screen.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is BlindSquare?
> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it
> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure
> how accessible it is.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Terri,
> 
> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
> contact me. Happy new year!
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>      Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently
> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also
> recently
> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,
> but
> my
> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,
> will
> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a
> color
> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are
> new
> to
> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Terri Wilcox
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 00:36:03 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 19:36:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
In-Reply-To: <50e28702.624fec0a.54aa.ffff9375@mx.google.com>
References: <50e28702.624fec0a.54aa.ffff9375@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <00e201cde881$266bb2f0$734318d0$@gmail.com>

Sophie,

	I know Navigon does turn-by-turn, as does Kapten GPS, although I
don't know if either of these have a walking mode like the Trekker Breeze or
the Sendero GPS for the BrailleNote. Supposedly Sendero has been working
with The Seeing Eye on developing a GPS app for iOS like their GPS software
for notetakers which is expected to be out in early 2013.

	On a different note, have you heard anything from the Nick News
people as to when our episode will air? If you'd like, you can email me
off-list about that.

Happy New Year,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

Lavonya, this isn't a complete list of apps for the blind--it's just the
ones I use and am most familiar with.
Aid Colors: very accurate color identifier Looktell Money Reader: Again,
very accurate.
Saytext: This is an OCR scanner for the iPhone.
RizWiz: This app is cool because it's run by live people, not a computer.
You snap a picture of the object you want to identify, then record a
question. Picture and question are sent to a living person, who then answers
it. This allows you to get more specific with your question than you could
with a computer-run app.
I would like to know of any GPS apps that do turn by turn navigation because
I'm not very good at getting around and will need that. Hope this helps, and
hope everyone had a good New Year's Eve!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:52:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

ulld someone b willing to give me a list of apps for the blind or even how
to get to some please. if u want to, u may e me off list, or on list.
thanks

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Dec 31, 2012, at 20:42, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
wrote:

 Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
wrote:

 that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i
never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like
that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is
50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" 
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

 Lavonya,
 unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost
2000 dollars, even small displays.
 I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford
them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to
afford even if you have a job.
 If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a
reason for it though.

 Ashley

 -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

 that is still a lot of money. good greef.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
 It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.

 Dave

 At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
 Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?

 -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone

 is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. 
this
 is for my 2 blind friends.

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone  and
helps you get around the touch screen.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 What is BlindSquare?
 I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it  doesn't
give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure  how accessible
it is.
 Arielle

 On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:
 Terri,

 Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
 For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
contact me. Happy new year!

 Chris Nusbaum

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

       Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently  acquired
two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also  recently  acquired
a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,  but  my
husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,  will
you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a  color
identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are  new  to
the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.

 Sincerely,
 Terri Wilcox


 _______________________________________________
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om



From isaac.hebert at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 18:18:00 2013
From: isaac.hebert at gmail.com (Isaac Hebert)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 12:18:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1357149606.11892.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.13.1357149606.11892.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <FF5799F5-5534-474F-99AB-C138B01B7F61@gmail.com>

Tomtom and Harmon street pilot are very great GPS apps.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 12:00 PM, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote:

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> 
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>    nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Recommended apps for the I-phone (Chris Nusbaum)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 19:36:03 -0500
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> Message-ID: <00e201cde881$266bb2f0$734318d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Sophie,
> 
>    I know Navigon does turn-by-turn, as does Kapten GPS, although I
> don't know if either of these have a walking mode like the Trekker Breeze or
> the Sendero GPS for the BrailleNote. Supposedly Sendero has been working
> with The Seeing Eye on developing a GPS app for iOS like their GPS software
> for notetakers which is expected to be out in early 2013.
> 
>    On a different note, have you heard anything from the Nick News
> people as to when our episode will air? If you'd like, you can email me
> off-list about that.
> 
> Happy New Year,
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:50 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> Lavonya, this isn't a complete list of apps for the blind--it's just the
> ones I use and am most familiar with.
> Aid Colors: very accurate color identifier Looktell Money Reader: Again,
> very accurate.
> Saytext: This is an OCR scanner for the iPhone.
> RizWiz: This app is cool because it's run by live people, not a computer.
> You snap a picture of the object you want to identify, then record a
> question. Picture and question are sent to a living person, who then answers
> it. This allows you to get more specific with your question than you could
> with a computer-run app.
> I would like to know of any GPS apps that do turn by turn navigation because
> I'm not very good at getting around and will need that. Hope this helps, and
> hope everyone had a good New Year's Eve!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:52:08 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> ulld someone b willing to give me a list of apps for the blind or even how
> to get to some please. if u want to, u may e me off list, or on list.
> thanks
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 20:42, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Lions clubs may also assist in purchasing onev
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> that is y i am glad that i do not need 1. but i would love to c 1, as i
> never have, exept  on a note taker. but not for a phone or anything like
> that. i learned to touch type, when i was 10. on a type writer. my w p m is
> 50 1 handed. do to my other hand not working.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 19:55, "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Lavonya,
> unfortunately, all braille displays are expensive! Most of them are almost
> 2000 dollars, even small displays.
> I wish they were half that price so a working blind person could afford
> them. But an entry level sallary is about 30 thousand so this is hard to
> afford even if you have a job.
> If you are a student, vr may purchase a braille display if you justify a
> reason for it though.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:24 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> that is still a lot of money. good greef.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote:
> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille?
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone
> 
> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. 
> this
> is for my 2 blind friends.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone  and
> helps you get around the touch screen.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is BlindSquare?
> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your
> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it  doesn't
> give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure  how accessible
> it is.
> Arielle
> 
> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Terri,
> 
> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader.
> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or
> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of
> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any
> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to
> contact me. Happy new year!
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> 
>       Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently  acquired
> two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also  recently  acquired
> a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen,  but  my
> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us,  will
> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a  color
> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are  new  to
> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Terri Wilcox
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
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> om
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2
> *************************************


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 18:55:36 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:55:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy New Year
Message-ID: <50e482b4.65553a0a.2fc1.fffff374@mx.google.com>

Happy new year everyone.  May this year be filled with lots of 
love and laughter.


From jj at bestmidi.com  Wed Jan  2 20:45:24 2013
From: jj at bestmidi.com (Jason Meddaugh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 15:45:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Tactile Screen Protectors for iPhone 5,
	iPod Touch 5G ipad Mini Released
Message-ID: <DD9DD9FA528E4836B01D7C20E3153C81@jage>

A lot of you have asked when the tactile screen protectors will be available for the latest Apple products. We are pleased to announce that the answer is now. A T Guys is pleased to offer the latest SpeedDots screen protectors for the iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5G, and iPad Mini. These are great for new users to help get oriented to the phone or for advanced users who want to type and navigate faster.
Also, a phone keypad layout is available for the iPhone 5 for those who primarily use their phone to make phone calls. Or, protect your phone with an Otterbox Defender case with a screen protector already attached.

We still offer protectors for the iPhone 4, 4S, and 3GS, iPod Touch 4G, and iPad 2nd generation and newer.

For more information or to place an order, visit
http://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15

or call (269) 216-4798.

Happy New Year
Jason Meddaugh
A T Guys
Your Assistive Technology Experts
(269) 216-4798
http://www.ATGuys.com

From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 23:58:29 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 18:58:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!

Justin


From codyjbair at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  3 00:11:15 2013
From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1357171875.53608.YahooMailClassic@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Justin,
I took statistics this past semester and typed out all of my homework and exams in a word doccument. Also, I did all of my calculations in excel. If you have further questions please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks,
Cody 

--- On Wed, 1/2/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 4:58 PM
> Hi All!
> 
> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to
> take a
> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course
> before.  I was
> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they
> survived the
> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much
> appreciated!
> 
> Justin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
> 


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 00:28:09 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:28:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <1357171875.53608.YahooMailClassic@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1357171875.53608.YahooMailClassic@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDsKAK3n4g+5rhTSzvwXTuagh6ti4A9H8+qH_FJEuw4Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin,
I have taken five stats courses at the undergrad and grad levels. Feel
free to write me off-list at
arielle71 at gmail.com
if you have specific questions or issues as the course progresses. I
too typed all my homework. You can do calculations in Excel or using a
free Web-based calculator called Graphpad QuickCalcs (just type
"Graphpad Quickcalcs" into Google and it's the first hit). Excel and
GraphPad can do everything that's required in introductory stats
except for analysis of variance, which  will probably come up at the
very end of the course. You should also be able to do all calculations
by hand. I went through all five courses without ever touching a
tactile graph, although others on the list may have suggestions for
places to get tactile graphics if you would prefer to use them. Best
of luck!
Arielle

On 1/2/13, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Justin,
> I took statistics this past semester and typed out all of my homework and
> exams in a word doccument. Also, I did all of my calculations in excel. If
> you have further questions please don't hesitate to ask.
> Thanks,
> Cody
>
> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 4:58 PM
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to
>> take a
>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course
>> before.  I was
>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they
>> survived the
>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much
>> appreciated!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 00:33:16 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:33:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDsKAK3n4g+5rhTSzvwXTuagh6ti4A9H8+qH_FJEuw4Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1357171875.53608.YahooMailClassic@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CALAYQJDsKAK3n4g+5rhTSzvwXTuagh6ti4A9H8+qH_FJEuw4Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s68DZXCtv5tkVv=8Xs+sKeaJsnHCDhu-sWgaGUSroPv3A@mail.gmail.com>

Oh thanks so much I'm going to look into that program recommended.

Justin

On 1/2/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> I have taken five stats courses at the undergrad and grad levels. Feel
> free to write me off-list at
> arielle71 at gmail.com
> if you have specific questions or issues as the course progresses. I
> too typed all my homework. You can do calculations in Excel or using a
> free Web-based calculator called Graphpad QuickCalcs (just type
> "Graphpad Quickcalcs" into Google and it's the first hit). Excel and
> GraphPad can do everything that's required in introductory stats
> except for analysis of variance, which  will probably come up at the
> very end of the course. You should also be able to do all calculations
> by hand. I went through all five courses without ever touching a
> tactile graph, although others on the list may have suggestions for
> places to get tactile graphics if you would prefer to use them. Best
> of luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/2/13, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>> I took statistics this past semester and typed out all of my homework and
>> exams in a word doccument. Also, I did all of my calculations in excel.
>> If
>> you have further questions please don't hesitate to ask.
>> Thanks,
>> Cody
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 4:58 PM
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to
>>> take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course
>>> before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they
>>> survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much
>>> appreciated!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 01:18:00 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:18:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
Message-ID: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>

Dear NABSters,

I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of 
sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a 
speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some 
questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on 
people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind 
kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there 
was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly 
appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second 
semester!


From jj at bestmidi.com  Thu Jan  3 02:00:41 2013
From: jj at bestmidi.com (Jason Meddaugh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:00:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>

I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name 
instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on 
the room size.

Good luck with the presentation.

Best Regards,
Jason Meddaugh
A T Guys
Your Assistive Technology Experts
(269) 216-4798
http://www.ATGuys.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation


> Dear NABSters,
>
> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted 
> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the 
> end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a 
> sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral 
> of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was 
> wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be 
> majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second 
> semester!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
> 



From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 02:25:03 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:25:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
Message-ID: <9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>

i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone and color coded. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:

> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on the room size.
> 
> Good luck with the presentation.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Jason Meddaugh
> A T Guys
> Your Assistive Technology Experts
> (269) 216-4798
> http://www.ATGuys.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
> 
> 
>> Dear NABSters,
>> 
>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second semester!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From trising at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan  3 02:29:33 2013
From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:29:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C5AB0185CE1F4514AD962B71D4FC6FAC@nickPC>

When you open the floor for questions, make a joke something like, "You can 
raise your hand, but it is going to petrify and turn to stone before I see 
it. So, just call out your name if you have a question. I will repeat your 
name and that gives you the floor to speak." That way, you do not have to 
wonder if someone is trying to get your attention or not. I hope this helps.

Terri Wilcox
Voice Lessons and Braille Tutoring available. Contact Terri Wilcox MA at 
(734)663-4050 or at trising at sbcglobal.net 



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 02:35:06 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:35:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>

Sophie,
I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone and color coded. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on the room size.
>> 
>> Good luck with the presentation.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Jason Meddaugh
>> A T Guys
>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>> (269) 216-4798
>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>> 
>> 
>>> Dear NABSters,
>>> 
>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second semester!
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 02:54:03 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:54:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>

Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
helpless.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sophie,
> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone and color coded.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on the room size.
>>>
>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>> A T Guys
>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>> (269) 216-4798
>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>
>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second semester!
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 02:57:10 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:57:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <C5AB0185CE1F4514AD962B71D4FC6FAC@nickPC>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<C5AB0185CE1F4514AD962B71D4FC6FAC@nickPC>
Message-ID: <-6441983533127641154@unknownmsgid>

That's exactly what I do. I tell them that raising their hand will
only make their arm get tired, but I love your joke. Thanks for the
material! :-)

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:37 PM, trising <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> When you open the floor for questions, make a joke something like, "You can
> raise your hand, but it is going to petrify and turn to stone before I see
> it. So, just call out your name if you have a question. I will repeat your
> name and that gives you the floor to speak." That way, you do not have to
> wonder if someone is trying to get your attention or not. I hope this helps.
>
> Terri Wilcox
> Voice Lessons and Braille Tutoring available. Contact Terri Wilcox MA at
> (734)663-4050 or at trising at sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 02:59:46 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:59:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
Message-ID: <4688991042191775782@unknownmsgid>

If it's in a classroom like the presentation Sophie is giving, that
has always worked in my experience. In fact, the only time I have not
seen blind people use that method successfully is at NFB conventions
when they open the floor to questions after a presenter at a general
session.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Jason Meddaugh <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:

> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on the room size.
>
> Good luck with the presentation.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jason Meddaugh
> A T Guys
> Your Assistive Technology Experts
> (269) 216-4798
> http://www.ATGuys.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>
>
>> Dear NABSters,
>>
>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second semester!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 03:02:08 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:02:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>

In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind people behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r do to autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if there r questions. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
> helpless.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sophie,
>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone and color coded.
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending on the room size.
>>>> 
>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>> A T Guys
>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second semester!
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 04:03:03 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:03:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sophie and all,

If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
Good luck with your presentation!

On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind people
> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r do to
> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if there
> r questions.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>> helpless.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sophie,
>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>> independent. :-)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help..
>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be
>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have
>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the
>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids
>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any
>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start
>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 12:02:35 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:02:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6378957387016214366@unknownmsgid>

They were probably so used to raising their hands and waiting for the
teacher to call on them, as they had been told to do since their first
day of kindergarten, that they forgot about the change in how you
would call on them. Middle schoolers should be okay, though.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sophie and all,
>
> If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
> before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
> I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
> school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
> teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
> what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
> what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
> Good luck with your presentation!
>
> On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind people
>> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
>> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r do to
>> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if there
>> r questions.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
>>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>>> helpless.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sophie,
>>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
>>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
>>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>>> independent. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help..
>>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be
>>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have
>>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the
>>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids
>>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any
>>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start
>>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 13:22:41 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:22:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0D354E3-B3CC-40D6-A9B8-AB81C570A188@gmail.com>

it may have been that the teacher told them to raise their hands to give you respect, and the teacher planned on calling on them. with young children, things need to be consistant. they get confused when they are told to do things that are one way for the teacher, and another for another person. this is y they don't really start changing classes a lot until they r a little older. i hope that makes sense. young children r more likely to listen to their teacher. so if the teacher told them to raise their hands before you came, they will probabley listen to the teacher.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 2, 2013, at 23:03, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sophie and all,
> 
> If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
> before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
> I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
> school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
> teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
> what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
> what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
> Good luck with your presentation!
> 
> On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind people
>> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
>> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r do to
>> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if there
>> r questions.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
>>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>>> helpless.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sophie,
>>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
>>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
>>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>>> independent. :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help..
>>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be
>>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have
>>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the
>>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids
>>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any
>>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start
>>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 16:10:47 2013
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:10:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <D0D354E3-B3CC-40D6-A9B8-AB81C570A188@gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0D354E3-B3CC-40D6-A9B8-AB81C570A188@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_ABA-X3yQiUxdMoAZa5M_0r_g-0pbc4wmh_9FGGAue7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sophie and All,
As one who has spent the past few years presenting to various groups
in schools, I personally just have the teacher call on the student
with their hand raised. It's a good idea showing that we as blind
people can do everything that sighted people can do, but I think it's
also important to accept help when it makes sense. I've been at
presentations given by blind people and where people in the audience
call out their questions. While I think it works, I'm not sure if it's
the most efficient way to do things.
Patrick

On 1/3/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> it may have been that the teacher told them to raise their hands to give you
> respect, and the teacher planned on calling on them. with young children,
> things need to be consistant. they get confused when they are told to do
> things that are one way for the teacher, and another for another person.
> this is y they don't really start changing classes a lot until they r a
> little older. i hope that makes sense. young children r more likely to
> listen to their teacher. so if the teacher told them to raise their hands
> before you came, they will probabley listen to the teacher.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 23:03, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sophie and all,
>>
>> If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
>> before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
>> I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
>> school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
>> teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
>> what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
>> what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
>> Good luck with your presentation!
>>
>> On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind
>>> people
>>> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
>>> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r do
>>> to
>>> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if
>>> there
>>> r questions.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>>>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>>>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>>>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
>>>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>>>> helpless.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just
>>>>> have
>>>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like
>>>>> has
>>>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>>>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>>>> independent. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have
>>>>>> help..
>>>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids
>>>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself.
>>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they
>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 17:14:04 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:14:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_ABA-X3yQiUxdMoAZa5M_0r_g-0pbc4wmh_9FGGAue7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0D354E3-B3CC-40D6-A9B8-AB81C570A188@gmail.com>
	<CAN+-G_ABA-X3yQiUxdMoAZa5M_0r_g-0pbc4wmh_9FGGAue7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhuet8tqKu_oq6vNaPUKi-RsAo3KhAeR9aqNrX+HUpEBHE+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all,
  This kind of goes back to a point that I think bears mentioning.
Sometimes, more often than some of us (especially lots of us who have
gone through decent training) would like, we need help.  Yes, maybe
it's possible to always walk a mile in the pouring snow to your bus
stop, maybe a superstar traveler can figure out a way to cross a
three-or-four street intersection without help (I've only seen one of
those, in Midtown Manhattan, and I had no qualms about asking someone
to help me across because I couldn't figure out what was going on just
by listening to traffic.)  Heck, I don't think any single person can
do anything and everything another single person, blind or sighted or
what have you, can do.  I can't drive (yet), play in the NBA or be an
airline pilot.  Heck, in very large groups, I can't call on people
with questions as efficiently as I could, were I able to see.  What of
it?  Just because something technically works (like having people tell
me their names before they ask questions, which I totally do when it's
most efficient to do so), that doesn't always mean it's the best way.
It's totally okay to ask for help, and utilize it whenever you feel
like it makes you more efficient, so long as it's on your terms and
you do things without it enough so you know  that you are capable of
managing solo when you have to.  That's my opinion, anyway, take it
for what it's worth.
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/3/13, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sophie and All,
> As one who has spent the past few years presenting to various groups
> in schools, I personally just have the teacher call on the student
> with their hand raised. It's a good idea showing that we as blind
> people can do everything that sighted people can do, but I think it's
> also important to accept help when it makes sense. I've been at
> presentations given by blind people and where people in the audience
> call out their questions. While I think it works, I'm not sure if it's
> the most efficient way to do things.
> Patrick
>
> On 1/3/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it may have been that the teacher told them to raise their hands to give
>> you
>> respect, and the teacher planned on calling on them. with young children,
>> things need to be consistant. they get confused when they are told to do
>> things that are one way for the teacher, and another for another person.
>> this is y they don't really start changing classes a lot until they r a
>> little older. i hope that makes sense. young children r more likely to
>> listen to their teacher. so if the teacher told them to raise their hands
>> before you came, they will probabley listen to the teacher.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 23:03, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sophie and all,
>>>
>>> If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
>>> before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
>>> I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
>>> school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
>>> teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
>>> what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
>>> what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
>>> Good luck with your presentation!
>>>
>>> On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind
>>>> people
>>>> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
>>>> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r
>>>> do
>>>> to
>>>> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if
>>>> there
>>>> r questions.
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>>>>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>>>>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>>>>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when we
>>>>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>>>>> helpless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>>>>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>>>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>>>>> independent. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have
>>>>>>> help..
>>>>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of
>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted
>>>>>>>>> kids
>>>>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself.
>>>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they
>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 18:34:23 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:34:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nls bard
Message-ID: <EE9D134847B6493AB7F70814F9147E04@OwnerPC>

Hi all,
I’m trying to figure out how to download books from  NLS bard.
I do not get the dialogue box I used to when using internet explorer 8. I assume I have to right click or use the context menu to save the zipped file.
When I go to the notification bar, I hear open only. But I want to save it, right?

After I save it, how do I get the files onto my usb drive to play in either the vr stratus or nls digital player?
I  think I open the zipped file to unzip them, but then what?

Thanks.

Ashley

From missheather at comcast.net  Thu Jan  3 19:14:23 2013
From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:14:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nls bard
In-Reply-To: <EE9D134847B6493AB7F70814F9147E04@OwnerPC>
References: <EE9D134847B6493AB7F70814F9147E04@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <DF0D113A0B1744B8B259FAAA9A091940@HeatherAcer>

I received this in my inbox from the Accessible Devices guys. I believe it 
should solve your problem.
Regards,
Heather
If you've upgraded to IE9 this will be helpful.
**this came from the BARD list..
Hello List Members,
Those of you who have started using Internet Explorer 9 have probably
noticed that
downloading doesn't work the same way as it does with earlier versions
of IE. The
process can make you think nothing is happening, which can be confusing
and frustrating.
Fortunately, however, it's easy to download with IE9 once you understand
the changes.
　
When you download a book with Internet Explorer 9, the prompt to
download or save
appears in a toolbar called the Information bar. You can respond to this
prompt in
one of two ways. One is to press Alt-N, which brings focus to the
Information bar
where you can choose whether to open or save the file.
The other is to press Alt-S, which bypasses the Information bar and
chooses to save
the file.
　
Once you press Alt-N and choose to save, or press Alt-S, the file begins
to download.
To see the progress of the download, press Control-J to open the View
Downloads dialog
box. Within this dialog box is an Options button that takes you to a
dialog where
you can choose whether to be notified when downloads are complete.
　
If you realize that you made a mistake and you don't want to download
this book,
press Alt-N to go back to the Information bard. Focus will move to the
Cancel button,
so press Enter to cancel the download.
　
By default, Internet Explorer 9 saves to a folder called Downloads in
your User folder.
If you want to change this location, do the following
1. Press Enter on the link to download a book.
2. Press Alt-N to bring focus to the Information bar.
3. Press Tab to the Save split button.
4. Press Down Arrow until you reach Save As.
5. Press Enter.
　
You are now in a standard Save As dialog box where you can change the
file name and
download location if you like.
　
We hope this information will help you download the books you want using
Internet
Explorer 9. Happy reading.
　
The BARD Technical Support Team NLS BARD Technical Support e-mail:
NLSDownload at loc.gov
  Read the BARD FAQ at: =
　
The VR Stream list is configured so that when using Control-R in most
e-mail programs,
message replies will go directly to the sender of the message. To reply
to the entire
list, use the "reply all" function of your e-mail program; usually
Control-Shift-R._______________________________________________
Vrstream mailing list
Vrstream at vrstreamusers.org
http://vrstreamusers.org/mailman/listinfo/vrstream_vrstreamusers.org
This is an Announce only list.  Subscribers are not able to post to this 
list.
You will find the list archives at:
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Sorry, but we're not able to provide help for archive users.
To unsubscribe from the Accessible Devices list copy the line below.  Paste 
it inthe
To: line of a blank message and send it.
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Or if you're using a podcatcher of some type the subscribe URL is.
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Visit our website at:
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Please feel free to pass this message on to a friend who might like to 
subscribe.
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Just follow the directions in the confirmation message when it comes.
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or products that we supply information about.
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-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] nls bard

Hi all,
I’m trying to figure out how to download books from  NLS bard.
I do not get the dialogue box I used to when using internet explorer 8. I 
assume I have to right click or use the context menu to save the zipped 
file.
When I go to the notification bar, I hear open only. But I want to save it, 
right?

After I save it, how do I get the files onto my usb drive to play in either 
the vr stratus or nls digital player?
I  think I open the zipped file to unzip them, but then what?

Thanks.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 19:22:56 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:22:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nls bard
In-Reply-To: <DF0D113A0B1744B8B259FAAA9A091940@HeatherAcer>
References: <EE9D134847B6493AB7F70814F9147E04@OwnerPC>
	<DF0D113A0B1744B8B259FAAA9A091940@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <5EDBAC8D7932423A89B8FEFEE62FF0D9@OwnerPC>

thank you!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Heather Field
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nls bard

I received this in my inbox from the Accessible Devices guys. I believe it
should solve your problem.
Regards,
Heather
If you've upgraded to IE9 this will be helpful.
**this came from the BARD list..
Hello List Members,
Those of you who have started using Internet Explorer 9 have probably
noticed that
downloading doesn't work the same way as it does with earlier versions
of IE. The
process can make you think nothing is happening, which can be confusing
and frustrating.
Fortunately, however, it's easy to download with IE9 once you understand
the changes.

When you download a book with Internet Explorer 9, the prompt to
download or save
appears in a toolbar called the Information bar. You can respond to this
prompt in
one of two ways. One is to press Alt-N, which brings focus to the
Information bar
where you can choose whether to open or save the file.
The other is to press Alt-S, which bypasses the Information bar and
chooses to save
the file.

Once you press Alt-N and choose to save, or press Alt-S, the file begins
to download.
To see the progress of the download, press Control-J to open the View
Downloads dialog
box. Within this dialog box is an Options button that takes you to a
dialog where
you can choose whether to be notified when downloads are complete.

If you realize that you made a mistake and you don't want to download
this book,
press Alt-N to go back to the Information bard. Focus will move to the
Cancel button,
so press Enter to cancel the download.

By default, Internet Explorer 9 saves to a folder called Downloads in
your User folder.
If you want to change this location, do the following
1. Press Enter on the link to download a book.
2. Press Alt-N to bring focus to the Information bar.
3. Press Tab to the Save split button.
4. Press Down Arrow until you reach Save As.
5. Press Enter.

You are now in a standard Save As dialog box where you can change the
file name and
download location if you like.

We hope this information will help you download the books you want using
Internet
Explorer 9. Happy reading.

The BARD Technical Support Team NLS BARD Technical Support e-mail:
NLSDownload at loc.gov
  Read the BARD FAQ at: =

The VR Stream list is configured so that when using Control-R in most
e-mail programs,
message replies will go directly to the sender of the message. To reply
to the entire
list, use the "reply all" function of your e-mail program; usually
Control-Shift-R._______________________________________________
Vrstream mailing list
Vrstream at vrstreamusers.org
http://vrstreamusers.org/mailman/listinfo/vrstream_vrstreamusers.org
This is an Announce only list.  Subscribers are not able to post to this
list.
You will find the list archives at:
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Sorry, but we're not able to provide help for archive users.
To unsubscribe from the Accessible Devices list copy the line below.  Paste
it inthe
To: line of a blank message and send it.
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You may download our podcasts from this link,
http://www.accessible-devices.com/Podcasts.html
Or if you're using a podcatcher of some type the subscribe URL is.
http://www.accessible-devices.com/feed.xml
Visit our website at:
www.accessible-devices.com
Please feel free to pass this message on to a friend who might like to
subscribe.
To subscribe to Accessible Devices send a blank e mail to:
a-d-subscribe at accessible-devices.com
Just follow the directions in the confirmation message when it comes.
Please Note: Accessible Devices is not able to provide tech support for
software
or products that we supply information about.
_______________________________________________
A-d mailing list
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_______________________________________________
A-d mailing list
A-d at accessible-devices.com
http://accessible-devices.com/mailman/listinfo/a-d_accessible-devices.com

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] nls bard

Hi all,
I’m trying to figure out how to download books from  NLS bard.
I do not get the dialogue box I used to when using internet explorer 8. I
assume I have to right click or use the context menu to save the zipped
file.
When I go to the notification bar, I hear open only. But I want to save it,
right?

After I save it, how do I get the files onto my usb drive to play in either
the vr stratus or nls digital player?
I  think I open the zipped file to unzip them, but then what?

Thanks.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From lily2011a at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 00:58:38 2013
From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:58:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry
In-Reply-To: <CECED86D-C397-4229-B955-FC161B40CF9E@gmail.com>
References: <CAAdv8fpvg4FMz1efRHO-5BNh=B1fuwMmmZYy166hcg5RysOiKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJA2EGJ+mNYa1j1M6tZqTeoFSH3zL-6MAWmPe4SLHvWT5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CECED86D-C397-4229-B955-FC161B40CF9E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+OnPfEPWrkKT3Btm6t6EJX3PkYrwjTMYoRNJRcUpP==-18hxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Speaking of chemistry and science courses, have any of you taken
organic chemistry or biochemistry?  If so, what are some skills you
used as a blind student to understand the material and do the
experiments independently or with a partner, but making sure you do an
equal share of the experiment.  Is it worth it for me to get the
chemistry equipment that they have for the blind out there.  I am
currently a freshmenn in college, but would like to pursue a major
that will get me into the medical field.  As of now, I am thinking
either dietetics or pediatric Nurse practitioner and I am sure these
majors will both acquire me to take chemistry.
Any tips or ideas are helpful.
Thanks a bunch!
Cheers to all and all a happy new year.
Lily

On 12/11/12, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> Just to supplement what Arielle said, I am a zoology major in college at the
> moment and have taken three semesters of chemistry and biology courses. I
> also write out the Greek letters. For reaction arrows, I simply write yields
> or equilibrium with, depending on the type of reaction. Feel free to email
> me off list if you have other questions about science courses. I would be
> more than happy to help.
>
> Aleeha dudley
>
> On Dec 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Danielle,
>> There are ways to create arrows and Greek letters in Microsoft Word,
>> but  JAWS usually doesn't read them properly. When doing homework it
>> is important that you can read your own homework assignments to use
>> them for review. What I have done for years (since high school) has
>> been to make up my own symbols. For example, instead of inserting the
>> Greek letter theta, I literally write out the word "theta". I have
>> done this for multiple biology, chemistry, math and physics classes
>> and never once had a teacher complain that I wasn't using the real
>> symbols.
>> If you have a Braille notetaker you may be able to do some fancy
>> things with LATX so that the Greek letters show up in proper Nemeth on
>> your Braille display. If you are interested in pursuing this option
>> further, I suggest joining the BlindMath list and asking there.
>> Best of luck,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 12/10/12, Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as
>>> arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible
>>> on a computer? Any help would be appreciated.
>>> Danielle
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 00:59:25 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:59:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuet8tqKu_oq6vNaPUKi-RsAo3KhAeR9aqNrX+HUpEBHE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<-5216106974282149936@unknownmsgid>
	<1C224873-47F4-4BE2-B048-FBCE317C1938@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DK0TAUhsg2V9nt7SLdLiXPptpkngCPhtB9HozFpQFJDVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0D354E3-B3CC-40D6-A9B8-AB81C570A188@gmail.com>
	<CAN+-G_ABA-X3yQiUxdMoAZa5M_0r_g-0pbc4wmh_9FGGAue7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuet8tqKu_oq6vNaPUKi-RsAo3KhAeR9aqNrX+HUpEBHE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJD4yX0KbkOKgSsscZzrdO28Bdhq7jur_un4vhA+Hxnn8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have used the NFB convention method several times with middle and
high  school kids and never had any problems or found it less
efficient than hand-raising. Most of the time only one child spoke up
at a time anyway so the name recognition wasn't even necessary. This
was in typical classrooms, so it might be tougher if you are speaking
to an assembly of the entire school.
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, all,
>   This kind of goes back to a point that I think bears mentioning.
> Sometimes, more often than some of us (especially lots of us who have
> gone through decent training) would like, we need help.  Yes, maybe
> it's possible to always walk a mile in the pouring snow to your bus
> stop, maybe a superstar traveler can figure out a way to cross a
> three-or-four street intersection without help (I've only seen one of
> those, in Midtown Manhattan, and I had no qualms about asking someone
> to help me across because I couldn't figure out what was going on just
> by listening to traffic.)  Heck, I don't think any single person can
> do anything and everything another single person, blind or sighted or
> what have you, can do.  I can't drive (yet), play in the NBA or be an
> airline pilot.  Heck, in very large groups, I can't call on people
> with questions as efficiently as I could, were I able to see.  What of
> it?  Just because something technically works (like having people tell
> me their names before they ask questions, which I totally do when it's
> most efficient to do so), that doesn't always mean it's the best way.
> It's totally okay to ask for help, and utilize it whenever you feel
> like it makes you more efficient, so long as it's on your terms and
> you do things without it enough so you know  that you are capable of
> managing solo when you have to.  That's my opinion, anyway, take it
> for what it's worth.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/3/13, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sophie and All,
>> As one who has spent the past few years presenting to various groups
>> in schools, I personally just have the teacher call on the student
>> with their hand raised. It's a good idea showing that we as blind
>> people can do everything that sighted people can do, but I think it's
>> also important to accept help when it makes sense. I've been at
>> presentations given by blind people and where people in the audience
>> call out their questions. While I think it works, I'm not sure if it's
>> the most efficient way to do things.
>> Patrick
>>
>> On 1/3/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it may have been that the teacher told them to raise their hands to give
>>> you
>>> respect, and the teacher planned on calling on them. with young
>>> children,
>>> things need to be consistant. they get confused when they are told to do
>>> things that are one way for the teacher, and another for another person.
>>> this is y they don't really start changing classes a lot until they r a
>>> little older. i hope that makes sense. young children r more likely to
>>> listen to their teacher. so if the teacher told them to raise their
>>> hands
>>> before you came, they will probabley listen to the teacher.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 23:03, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Sophie and all,
>>>>
>>>> If you decide to use the method of having them call out their names
>>>> before you call on them, make it very clear what you are going to do.
>>>> I attempted to do this a couple weeks ago when I was presenting at a
>>>> school, and the kids still raised their hands and waited for the
>>>> teacher to call on them.  Either I did not make myself clear about
>>>> what I wanted(entirely possible), or they were too young to understand
>>>> what I wanted.  Middle schoolers should be able to handle it though.
>>>> Good luck with your presentation!
>>>>
>>>> On 1/2/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In the speaches that i give, i include that fact that not all blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> behave like me, and that i am both blind and autistic. i also go on to
>>>>> explain that blind people can and do talk. that most of my behaviors r
>>>>> do
>>>>> to
>>>>> autism, and a d h d. not blindness. this way they know. than i ask if
>>>>> there
>>>>> r questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:54, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. I agree with that. Although it's good to show sighted kids that
>>>>>> blind people can do anything that they can do, it's also important, I
>>>>>> think, to show them that everybody needs some help sometimes and that
>>>>>> blind people are just as capable of choosing what help we need when
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> need it as they are; in other words, We are interdependent, but not
>>>>>> helpless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>>>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question,
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> room to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking
>>>>>>> someone to help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee
>>>>>>> independent. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner
>>>>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>>>>>>> raised, or i have people call out their names. but i have to have
>>>>>>>> help..
>>>>>>>> i am going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> tone and color coded.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> name instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work,
>>>>>>>>> depending on the room size.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>>>>>>> A T Guys
>>>>>>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>>>>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>>>>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> the end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> a sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> moral of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted
>>>>>>>>>> kids
>>>>>>>>>> can, I was wondering if there was a way I could do this by
>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>>>>> help would be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they
>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>> their second semester!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>>>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>>>
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 01:11:39 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:11:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry
In-Reply-To: <CA+OnPfEPWrkKT3Btm6t6EJX3PkYrwjTMYoRNJRcUpP==-18hxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAdv8fpvg4FMz1efRHO-5BNh=B1fuwMmmZYy166hcg5RysOiKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJA2EGJ+mNYa1j1M6tZqTeoFSH3zL-6MAWmPe4SLHvWT5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CECED86D-C397-4229-B955-FC161B40CF9E@gmail.com>
	<CA+OnPfEPWrkKT3Btm6t6EJX3PkYrwjTMYoRNJRcUpP==-18hxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCytzTksqYjqjRxtJJ24p46SCaYALmjdTaUS2EGX7AG9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lily,
I earned a biology degree in college and I took general chemistry
(lectures and labs) and organic chemistry (lecture only). When I took
the general chemistry labs I relied on lab partners and readers to do
most of the actual chemical mixing and to relay observations and
measurements to me. However that was back in 2005 and fortunately some
things have changed since then. There is a blind student at my
university named Amelia Dickerson who is studying to be a science
teacher and has made some adaptations so that she can independently
measure chemicals and access some of the data without relying on
readers. You can write to her at
ameliadickerson at gmail.com
Independence Science also has some stuff, though some of it will be a
little expensive. Amelia can tell you about some lower-tech solutions
and whether or not you want to invest in the more expensive ones is up
to you. If you're just taking one or two classes and don't plan to be
a professional chemist or earn a graduate degree in chemistry then you
might prefer to just use the low-tech solutions and get some support
from a reader.
I did not take the O-chem lab but my advice from the lecture is to be
sure to get one of those molecular modeling kits from the bookstore
(it should come with your textbook) and talk with the professor about
giving you three-dimensional models of molecules whenever possible. My
professor was great about this and even gave me 3D models instead of
diagrams on the exams so I could take them independently.
Best,
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Liliya Asadullina <lily2011a at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Speaking of chemistry and science courses, have any of you taken
> organic chemistry or biochemistry?  If so, what are some skills you
> used as a blind student to understand the material and do the
> experiments independently or with a partner, but making sure you do an
> equal share of the experiment.  Is it worth it for me to get the
> chemistry equipment that they have for the blind out there.  I am
> currently a freshmenn in college, but would like to pursue a major
> that will get me into the medical field.  As of now, I am thinking
> either dietetics or pediatric Nurse practitioner and I am sure these
> majors will both acquire me to take chemistry.
> Any tips or ideas are helpful.
> Thanks a bunch!
> Cheers to all and all a happy new year.
> Lily
>
> On 12/11/12, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Just to supplement what Arielle said, I am a zoology major in college at
>> the
>> moment and have taken three semesters of chemistry and biology courses. I
>> also write out the Greek letters. For reaction arrows, I simply write
>> yields
>> or equilibrium with, depending on the type of reaction. Feel free to
>> email
>> me off list if you have other questions about science courses. I would be
>> more than happy to help.
>>
>> Aleeha dudley
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Danielle,
>>> There are ways to create arrows and Greek letters in Microsoft Word,
>>> but  JAWS usually doesn't read them properly. When doing homework it
>>> is important that you can read your own homework assignments to use
>>> them for review. What I have done for years (since high school) has
>>> been to make up my own symbols. For example, instead of inserting the
>>> Greek letter theta, I literally write out the word "theta". I have
>>> done this for multiple biology, chemistry, math and physics classes
>>> and never once had a teacher complain that I wasn't using the real
>>> symbols.
>>> If you have a Braille notetaker you may be able to do some fancy
>>> things with LATX so that the Greek letters show up in proper Nemeth on
>>> your Braille display. If you are interested in pursuing this option
>>> further, I suggest joining the BlindMath list and asking there.
>>> Best of luck,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 12/10/12, Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as
>>>> arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible
>>>> on a computer? Any help would be appreciated.
>>>> Danielle
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From coasterfreak88 at me.com  Fri Jan  4 02:02:53 2013
From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:02:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about the Nook app and textbooks.
Message-ID: <9426AA89-7235-4579-A051-1416516AEE3D@me.com>

I have found a class textbook on the Nook Store and would like to buy it. Will Nook Study books work on the Nook app or is there another format? I do not see another Nook link, only the Nook Study link. THanks a lot for the help.


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 03:50:30 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:50:30 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
Message-ID: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way 
the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on 
the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille 
than in print LOL...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs


STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> » 
About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News & 
Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course 
yields touchscreen Braille writer
<http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising 
undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner 
developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the 
blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times 
more.
Andrew Myers

Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army 
High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group 
of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion 
into the wonders of advanced computing.

Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are 
assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American 
Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.

The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S. 
Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.

Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is 
now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to 
Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian 
Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja, 
a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.

"Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition 
application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or 
tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It 
was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."

BIGGER FISH

Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk 
to the Stanford Office of Accessible 
Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession 
is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of 
higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.

While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and 
Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.

"How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows 
which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the 
paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would 
be limited in day-to-day application."

"It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.

So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a 
sweet spot.

"The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.

"Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew. 
"What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number? 
These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."

There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so 
forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some 
cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond 
typing Braille, of course.

"Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said Duran.

"So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer," 
said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."

[http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan 
Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software 
works.

First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally 
developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with 
each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really - 
arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their 
fingertips.

As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields 
two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63 
characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with 
several left over for punctuation and some special characters.

Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up - 
through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew 
and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.

CHALLENGE

A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key 
keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete 
key.

Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, 
but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person 
find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?

Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and 
simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must 
find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight 
fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If 
the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight 
fingers off the glass and putting them down again.

"Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was 
fun to see."

Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other 
significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable," 
Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or 
large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to 
allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed 
as if playing a clarinet."

"No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the 
chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director 
of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."

SHOWING OFF

In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the 
touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then 
he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the 
Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and 
followed with the chemical equation for 
photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex 
stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.

For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a 
blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome," 
he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."

In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address, 
but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find 
themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable 
and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.

"AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains 
undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students 
to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative 
agreement manager for AHPCRC.

The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering 
challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the 
AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.

As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points 
out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart 
people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students 
accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it 
seems to get better and more impressive."

Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School 
of Engineering.

Video

Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille 
Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>

Thursday, October 6, 2011

Sent from my iPad 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 04:06:38 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:06:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>

Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
already exists.
It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
there or what real live blind folks actually need.
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille
>
> than in print LOL...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course
>
> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner
> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the
>
> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times
>
> more.
> Andrew Myers
>
> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army
> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group
> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion
> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>
> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are
>
> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>
> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S.
>
> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>
> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is
> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to
>
> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian
>
> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja,
>
> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>
> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It
>
> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>
> BIGGER FISH
>
> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk
> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession
> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>
> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>
> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would
> be limited in day-to-day application."
>
> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>
> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
> sweet spot.
>
> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>
> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>
> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
> typing Braille, of course.
>
> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> Duran.
>
> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>
> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software
>
> works.
>
> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with
>
> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their
>
> fingertips.
>
> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63
> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with
>
> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>
> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>
> CHALLENGE
>
> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key
>
> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete
>
> key.
>
> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough,
>
> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>
> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must
> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight
>
> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If
> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>
> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
> fun to see."
>
> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable,"
>
> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed
>
> as if playing a clarinet."
>
> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the
>
> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director
>
> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>
> SHOWING OFF
>
> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then
> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
> followed with the chemical equation for
> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>
> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a
> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome,"
> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>
> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address,
> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable
> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>
> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students
> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>
> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>
> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points
>
> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart
> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
> seems to get better and more impressive."
>
> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School
>
> of Engineering.
>
> Video
>
> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>
> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com  Fri Jan  4 04:13:58 2013
From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 04:13:58 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>,
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638EE4@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Arielle, why not encourage someone to help market Dave Pilloscher's awesome Braille Writer that actually converts the document into print as well as Brailles it?
It's lightweight, and you can plug that Braille writer into a computer.
Then, you can do your normal Brailling like you'd do on the Perkins, but as you're Brailling, it also shows up on the computer screen, and you can print it off like that!
BTW, that Braille Writer doesn't make as much noise as the Perkins!
I actually tested it at the 2010 NFB national convention!
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
already exists.
It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
there or what real live blind folks actually need.
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille
>
> than in print LOL...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course
>
> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner
> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the
>
> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times
>
> more.
> Andrew Myers
>
> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army
> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group
> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion
> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>
> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are
>
> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>
> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S.
>
> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>
> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is
> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to
>
> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian
>
> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja,
>
> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>
> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It
>
> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>
> BIGGER FISH
>
> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk
> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession
> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>
> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>
> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would
> be limited in day-to-day application."
>
> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>
> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
> sweet spot.
>
> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>
> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>
> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
> typing Braille, of course.
>
> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> Duran.
>
> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>
> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software
>
> works.
>
> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with
>
> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their
>
> fingertips.
>
> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63
> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with
>
> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>
> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>
> CHALLENGE
>
> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key
>
> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete
>
> key.
>
> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough,
>
> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>
> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must
> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight
>
> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If
> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>
> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
> fun to see."
>
> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable,"
>
> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed
>
> as if playing a clarinet."
>
> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the
>
> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director
>
> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>
> SHOWING OFF
>
> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then
> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
> followed with the chemical equation for
> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>
> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a
> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome,"
> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>
> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address,
> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable
> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>
> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students
> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>
> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>
> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points
>
> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart
> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
> seems to get better and more impressive."
>
> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School
>
> of Engineering.
>
> Video
>
> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>
> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 04:17:52 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:17:52 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BD7F0B11-88E5-47CA-93D3-0379DE1C18F2@gmail.com>

Brandon,
I'll wait to see how this actually pans out. Incidentally, I have done several time test comparing my speed riding the same text on a braille keyboard and on a regular keyboard. It turns out I am consistently faster with the QWERTY keyboard… And I know I am definitely i QWERTY keyboard… And I know my braille typing speed is well above average. I'm curious to see if anyone else has done something similar, and, if so, what their results were?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille than in print LOL...
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> 
> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> » About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News & Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course yields touchscreen Braille writer
> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times more.
> Andrew Myers
> 
> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion into the wonders of advanced computing.
> 
> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> 
> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S. Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
> 
> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
> 
> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> 
> BIGGER FISH
> 
> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk to the Stanford Office of Accessible Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> 
> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> 
> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would be limited in day-to-day application."
> 
> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> 
> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a sweet spot.
> 
> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> 
> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew. "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number? These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> 
> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond typing Braille, of course.
> 
> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said Duran.
> 
> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer," said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> 
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software works.
> 
> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really - arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their fingertips.
> 
> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63 characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> 
> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up - through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> 
> CHALLENGE
> 
> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete key.
> 
> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> 
> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> 
> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was fun to see."
> 
> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable," Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed as if playing a clarinet."
> 
> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
> 
> SHOWING OFF
> 
> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and followed with the chemical equation for photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> 
> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome," he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> 
> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address, but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
> 
> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> 
> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
> 
> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it seems to get better and more impressive."
> 
> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School of Engineering.
> 
> Video
> 
> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> 
> Thursday, October 6, 2011
> 
> Sent from my iPad 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 04:21:16 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:21:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>

Hello everyone,
I'm sorry for the double post… But I feel like I need to clarify. Already, this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an iPad. I see a decent amount of value and that, I think.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> already exists.
> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille
>> 
>> than in print LOL...
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> 
>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course
>> 
>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner
>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the
>> 
>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times
>> 
>> more.
>> Andrew Myers
>> 
>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army
>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group
>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion
>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> 
>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are
>> 
>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> 
>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S.
>> 
>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>> 
>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is
>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to
>> 
>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian
>> 
>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja,
>> 
>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>> 
>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It
>> 
>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> 
>> BIGGER FISH
>> 
>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk
>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession
>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> 
>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>> 
>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would
>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>> 
>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> 
>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
>> sweet spot.
>> 
>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> 
>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>> 
>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
>> typing Braille, of course.
>> 
>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>> Duran.
>> 
>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> 
>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>> 
>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software
>> 
>> works.
>> 
>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with
>> 
>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their
>> 
>> fingertips.
>> 
>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63
>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with
>> 
>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> 
>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> 
>> CHALLENGE
>> 
>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key
>> 
>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete
>> 
>> key.
>> 
>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough,
>> 
>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>> 
>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must
>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight
>> 
>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If
>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> 
>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
>> fun to see."
>> 
>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable,"
>> 
>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed
>> 
>> as if playing a clarinet."
>> 
>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the
>> 
>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director
>> 
>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>> 
>> SHOWING OFF
>> 
>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then
>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
>> followed with the chemical equation for
>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> 
>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a
>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome,"
>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> 
>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address,
>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable
>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>> 
>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students
>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> 
>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>> 
>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points
>> 
>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart
>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>> 
>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School
>> 
>> of Engineering.
>> 
>> Video
>> 
>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> 
>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com  Fri Jan  4 04:25:54 2013
From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 04:25:54 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] David Pillischer wasRE:  Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638F05@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Goodness!
I can't believe I misspelled David's name again!
It's David Pillischer, and he used to run Sighted Electronics.
What happened to him?
I couldn't find his number or E-mail online, anymore.
His Braille writer that I mentioned in a previous post is the sollution to the problem here.
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kirt [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

Brandon,
I'll wait to see how this actually pans out. Incidentally, I have done several time test comparing my speed riding the same text on a braille keyboard and on a regular keyboard. It turns out I am consistently faster with the QWERTY keyboard… And I know I am definitely i QWERTY keyboard… And I know my braille typing speed is well above average. I'm curious to see if anyone else has done something similar, and, if so, what their results were?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille than in print LOL...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> » About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News & Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course yields touchscreen Braille writer
> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times more.
> Andrew Myers
>
> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion into the wonders of advanced computing.
>
> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>
> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S. Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>
> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>
> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>
> BIGGER FISH
>
> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk to the Stanford Office of Accessible Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>
> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>
> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would be limited in day-to-day application."
>
> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>
> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a sweet spot.
>
> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>
> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew. "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number? These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>
> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond typing Braille, of course.
>
> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said Duran.
>
> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer," said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software works.
>
> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really - arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their fingertips.
>
> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63 characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>
> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up - through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>
> CHALLENGE
>
> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete key.
>
> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>
> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>
> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was fun to see."
>
> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable," Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed as if playing a clarinet."
>
> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>
> SHOWING OFF
>
> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and followed with the chemical equation for photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>
> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome," he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>
> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address, but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>
> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>
> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>
> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it seems to get better and more impressive."
>
> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School of Engineering.
>
> Video
>
> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>
> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 04:27:01 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:27:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE165519-050C-430D-8002-B54BF4434D97@gmail.com>

Oh, so we're talking about a tablet? Jeez, why not just invent an application? I'm sorry, but we blind individuals carry enough crap around in the first place, we certainly don't need a tablet that just writes Braille and that's it, although I'll admit it's a nice idea.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> already exists.
> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille
>> 
>> than in print LOL...
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> 
>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer course
>> 
>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner
>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how the
>> 
>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times
>> 
>> more.
>> Andrew Myers
>> 
>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army
>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group
>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion
>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> 
>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All are
>> 
>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> 
>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the U.S.
>> 
>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>> 
>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is
>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came to
>> 
>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were Adrian
>> 
>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan Dharmaraja,
>> 
>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>> 
>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. "It
>> 
>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> 
>> BIGGER FISH
>> 
>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk
>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession
>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> 
>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>> 
>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would
>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>> 
>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> 
>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
>> sweet spot.
>> 
>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> 
>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>> 
>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
>> typing Braille, of course.
>> 
>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>> Duran.
>> 
>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> 
>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>> 
>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the software
>> 
>> works.
>> 
>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code with
>> 
>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their
>> 
>> fingertips.
>> 
>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63
>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, with
>> 
>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> 
>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> 
>> CHALLENGE
>> 
>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an eight-key
>> 
>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete
>> 
>> key.
>> 
>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple enough,
>> 
>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>> 
>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must
>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches eight
>> 
>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If
>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> 
>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
>> fun to see."
>> 
>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're customizable,"
>> 
>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands opposed
>> 
>> as if playing a clarinet."
>> 
>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, the
>> 
>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive director
>> 
>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>> 
>> SHOWING OFF
>> 
>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then
>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
>> followed with the chemical equation for
>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> 
>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a
>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome,"
>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> 
>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address,
>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable
>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>> 
>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students
>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> 
>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>> 
>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he points
>> 
>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart
>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>> 
>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford School
>> 
>> of Engineering.
>> 
>> Video
>> 
>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> 
>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 04:29:44 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:29:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
me?
In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
it are without much basis.
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> I'm sorry for the double post… But I feel like I need to clarify. Already,
> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an iPad. I see a decent amount of
> value and that, I think.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>> already exists.
>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>>> Braille
>>>
>>> than in print LOL...
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer
>>> course
>>>
>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>>> winner
>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how
>>> the
>>>
>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>>> times
>>>
>>> more.
>>> Andrew Myers
>>>
>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>>> Army
>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>>> group
>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>> immersion
>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>
>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All
>>> are
>>>
>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>
>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the
>>> U.S.
>>>
>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>>> AHPCRC.
>>>
>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He
>>> is
>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came
>>> to
>>>
>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>
>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>>>
>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
>>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran.
>>> "It
>>>
>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>
>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>
>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>>> talk
>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>> profession
>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>>>
>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>>>
>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>>> would
>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>
>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>
>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
>>> sweet spot.
>>>
>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>
>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>
>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>
>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>>> Duran.
>>>
>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>
>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>
>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>> software
>>>
>>> works.
>>>
>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
>>> with
>>>
>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>>> their
>>>
>>> fingertips.
>>>
>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These
>>> 63
>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
>>> with
>>>
>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>
>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>
>>> CHALLENGE
>>>
>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>> eight-key
>>>
>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>>> delete
>>>
>>> key.
>>>
>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>>> enough,
>>>
>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>
>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>>> must
>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
>>> eight
>>>
>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers.
>>> If
>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>
>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
>>> fun to see."
>>>
>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>> customizable,"
>>>
>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>>> opposed
>>>
>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>
>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat,
>>> the
>>>
>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>> director
>>>
>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>>>
>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>
>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>>> Then
>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
>>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>
>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing
>>> a
>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>> awesome,"
>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>
>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>> address,
>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>> portable
>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>>>
>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>> students
>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>
>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>> Laboratory.
>>>
>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>>> points
>>>
>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>>> smart
>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>
>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>>> School
>>>
>>> of Engineering.
>>>
>>> Video
>>>
>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>
>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 05:02:44 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:02:44 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9F42D70FA0740FDB6163297472E079C@BrandonsLaptop2>

I agree, but the Android tablets are accessible... I don't know why we'd use 
it though, especially with the new Braille Plus 18...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
already exists.
It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
there or what real live blind folks actually need.
Arielle

On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in 
> Braille
>
> than in print LOL...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer 
> course
>
> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's winner
> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how 
> the
>
> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10 
> times
>
> more.
> Andrew Myers
>
> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the Army
> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select group
> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month immersion
> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>
> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All 
> are
>
> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>
> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the 
> U.S.
>
> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the 
> AHPCRC.
>
> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He is
> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came 
> to
>
> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were 
> Adrian
>
> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan 
> Dharmaraja,
>
> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>
> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran. 
> "It
>
> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>
> BIGGER FISH
>
> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to talk
> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose profession
> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>
> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>
> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful, would
> be limited in day-to-day application."
>
> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>
> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
> sweet spot.
>
> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>
> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>
> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
> typing Braille, of course.
>
> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> Duran.
>
> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>
> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the 
> software
>
> works.
>
> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code 
> with
>
> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with 
> their
>
> fingertips.
>
> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These 63
> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, 
> with
>
> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>
> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>
> CHALLENGE
>
> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an 
> eight-key
>
> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a 
> delete
>
> key.
>
> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple 
> enough,
>
> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>
> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips must
> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches 
> eight
>
> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers. If
> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>
> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
> fun to see."
>
> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're 
> customizable,"
>
> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands 
> opposed
>
> as if playing a clarinet."
>
> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat, 
> the
>
> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive 
> director
>
> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>
> SHOWING OFF
>
> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line. Then
> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
> followed with the chemical equation for
> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>
> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing a
> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so awesome,"
> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>
> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to address,
> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both portable
> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>
> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes students
> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>
> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>
> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he 
> points
>
> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few smart
> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
> seems to get better and more impressive."
>
> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford 
> School
>
> of Engineering.
>
> Video
>
> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>
> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 00:03:11 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 16:03:11 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
Message-ID: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups 
that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I 
can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs 



From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 01:14:11 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:14:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com>

what is doodle

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 01:41:46 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com>
References: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>

I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> what is doodle
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 01:57:32 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:57:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>
References: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com>
	<6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <808B6D48-E7CD-4F27-A1F5-2757618B412F@gmail.com>

Have used moodle but not doodle. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:41 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> what is doodle
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 01:57:37 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:57:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>
References: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com>
	<6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FA6C466-F3BA-47A5-BD21-F15458D42CDD@gmail.com>

that is really cool. i should ask my brother about it. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 4, 2013, at 20:41, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> what is doodle
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Jan  5 02:00:24 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:00:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
Message-ID: <mailman.53.1772982271.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
drawing program?
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a 
lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 what is doodle

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

 On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello,
 I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs 
and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs 
I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and 
Firefox.
 Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
 Thank you,

 Brandon Keith Biggs

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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07%40comcast.net


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:03:46 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:03:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>

Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:

> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a drawing program?
> Beth
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
> 
> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> what is doodle
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
> %40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> 07%40comcast.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:10:28 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:10:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>

Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
Hope

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a drawing program?
>> Beth
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>> 
>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> what is doodle
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>> 07%40comcast.net
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:15:35 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:15:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>

Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
> Hope
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a drawing program?
>>> Beth
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>> 
>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> what is doodle
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>> gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:28:47 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:28:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>
	<14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>> 
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> what is doodle
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:43:48 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 18:43:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best 
times to get together in a large group.
https://doodle.com/
My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I 
hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other 
button I need to push or what...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but 
it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, 
etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What 
>> problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>> drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of 
>>>> colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> what is doodle
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader 
>>>> in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:54:30 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:54:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
My community college also uses Moodle, and it seems to be a lot more 
accessible than Blackboard is. I am not sure if the original poster who 
posted the question is referring to Moodle or an actual program called 
Doodle.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?


> Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, 
> but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read 
> documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What 
>>> problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>>> drawing program?
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot 
>>>>> of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader 
>>>>> in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 02:57:39 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:57:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com><C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <3D967154B8FC42D0998AECB780E485BA@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Did you try using the JAWS cursor to find the Save button and clicking with 
the left mouse button on Save? Sometimes that works when buttons don't 
respond to enter or spacebar when JAWS is in PC cursor.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?


> Hello,
> Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best 
> times to get together in a large group.
> https://doodle.com/
> My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I 
> hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other 
> button I need to push or what...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Hope Paulos
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>
> Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, 
> but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read 
> documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What 
>>> problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>>> drawing program?
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot 
>>>>> of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader 
>>>>> in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:06:28 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:06:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <000601cdeaf1$a8cda600$fa68f200$@gmail.com>

Misty and all,

	There is a Web site called Doodle which allows you to schedule meetings and events with other people. This is different than Moodle, the program you are referring to. If the original poster was referring to Doodle Easy Scheduling, I can answer that question.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hi,
My community college also uses Moodle, and it seems to be a lot more accessible than Blackboard is. I am not sure if the original poster who posted the question is referring to Moodle or an actual program called Doodle.
Misty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?


> Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, 
> but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read 
> documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What 
>>> problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>>> drawing program?
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot 
>>>>> of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader 
>>>>> in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 


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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:08:37 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:08:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com>

Brandon,

	If I remember correctly, there are two options for viewing the times on that page: calendar view and list view. Try viewing them in list view. Sometimes with Doodle you think you've selected something when you really haven't.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best times to get together in a large group.
https://doodle.com/
My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other button I need to push or what...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. 
>> What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi 
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>> drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a 
>>>> lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> what is doodle
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm 
>>>> leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gm
>>> ail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai
>> l.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmai
> l.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:13:22 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:13:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] joke
Message-ID: <CANnXs0KeMEopB_tN+L1WPzTK+G3yGrmEamJEf3syW2E315Jx0g@mail.gmail.com>

 Smile of the day
Fred had been a faithful Christian and was in the hospital, near death.
 The family called their preacher to stand with them.
 As the preacher stood next to the bed,
 Fred's condition appeared to deteriorate and he motioned frantically for
something to write on.

 The pastor lovingly handed him a pen and a piece of paper
 and Fred used his last bit of energy to scribble a note, then he died.
 The preacher thought it best not to look at the note at that time,
 so he placed it in his jacket pocket.

 At the funeral, as he was finishing the message,
 he realized that he was wearing the same jacket that he was wearing when
Fred died.
 He said, "You know, Fred handed me a note just before he died.
 I haven't looked at it, but knowing Fred, I'm sure there's a word of
inspiration there for us all."

 He opened the note, and read, "Hey, you're standing on my oxygen tube!"


-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:17:47 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:17:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] joke
In-Reply-To: <CANnXs0KeMEopB_tN+L1WPzTK+G3yGrmEamJEf3syW2E315Jx0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANnXs0KeMEopB_tN+L1WPzTK+G3yGrmEamJEf3syW2E315Jx0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01cdeaf3$3d77b420$b8671c60$@gmail.com>

Deb,

	Haha! Thanks for the laugh!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:13 PM
To: NLDippold at aol.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
acb-l at acb.org; Ric Room; SR; Heather D.; Elaine Cohen
Subject: [nabs-l] joke

 Smile of the day
Fred had been a faithful Christian and was in the hospital, near death.
 The family called their preacher to stand with them.
 As the preacher stood next to the bed,
 Fred's condition appeared to deteriorate and he motioned frantically for
something to write on.

 The pastor lovingly handed him a pen and a piece of paper  and Fred used
his last bit of energy to scribble a note, then he died.
 The preacher thought it best not to look at the note at that time,  so he
placed it in his jacket pocket.

 At the funeral, as he was finishing the message,  he realized that he was
wearing the same jacket that he was wearing when Fred died.
 He said, "You know, Fred handed me a note just before he died.
 I haven't looked at it, but knowing Fred, I'm sure there's a word of
inspiration there for us all."

 He opened the note, and read, "Hey, you're standing on my oxygen tube!"


--
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:20:41 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:20:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] joke
In-Reply-To: <000f01cdeaf3$3d77b420$b8671c60$@gmail.com>
References: <CANnXs0KeMEopB_tN+L1WPzTK+G3yGrmEamJEf3syW2E315Jx0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01cdeaf3$3d77b420$b8671c60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANnXs0+k_hshjtEKvo96vbKsr=qixHzjZPm33hB49sRz4aqoDA@mail.gmail.com>

You're welcome!


On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>wrote:

> Deb,
>
>         Haha! Thanks for the laugh!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb
> Mendelsohn
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:13 PM
> To: NLDippold at aol.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list;
> acb-l at acb.org; Ric Room; SR; Heather D.; Elaine Cohen
> Subject: [nabs-l] joke
>
>  Smile of the day
> Fred had been a faithful Christian and was in the hospital, near death.
>  The family called their preacher to stand with them.
>  As the preacher stood next to the bed,
>  Fred's condition appeared to deteriorate and he motioned frantically for
> something to write on.
>
>  The pastor lovingly handed him a pen and a piece of paper  and Fred used
> his last bit of energy to scribble a note, then he died.
>  The preacher thought it best not to look at the note at that time,  so he
> placed it in his jacket pocket.
>
>  At the funeral, as he was finishing the message,  he realized that he was
> wearing the same jacket that he was wearing when Fred died.
>  He said, "You know, Fred handed me a note just before he died.
>  I haven't looked at it, but knowing Fred, I'm sure there's a word of
> inspiration there for us all."
>
>  He opened the note, and read, "Hey, you're standing on my oxygen tube!"
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>



-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*

From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:23:19 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:23:19 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] dropping school for an injury
Message-ID: <CANnXs0LtXWqO0c06Gc7uQGmUzXxtK=OKX0jn2_orbBZt6o146Q@mail.gmail.com>

*HI all,

*
*I had to put off grad school, as I broke a rib and sprained my neck where
I had cervical fushion on 4-6 with cadver bone and plate and screws,

*
*Am I the only clumsy blind person>

*
*Deb
*

From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:25:02 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:25:02 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com><4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79EBCFEAEEBE41AEB7471A2BB5030CE4@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
That wasn't it, I was able to select and check the boxes, but when I went 
out of the table and hit save, the whole table stayed the same and the save 
button turned into 2 unavailable buttons and I was given the choice to make 
a comment. I clicked on make a comment and typed something into the box and 
that was all I could figure out to do, nothing else seemed to be there... I 
couldn't see anything with the Jaws curser, but I may not have known where 
to look...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:08 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Brandon,

If I remember correctly, there are two options for viewing the times on that 
page: calendar view and list view. Try viewing them in list view. Sometimes 
with Doodle you think you've selected something when you really haven't.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith 
Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best 
times to get together in a large group.
https://doodle.com/
My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I 
hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other 
button I need to push or what...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but 
it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, 
etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher.
>> What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a
>>>> drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a
>>>> lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner
>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> what is doodle
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and
>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm
>>>> leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gm
>>> ail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:29:26 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:29:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001cdeaf4$de281120$9a783360$@gmail.com>

Josh,

	No, it's a meeting scheduling tool. It allows you to propose times and dates for meetings, then invite the other people in your meeting by email to go on the Web site and select which times work for them. Our foundation uses Doodle to schedule our board meetings.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:

> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a drawing program?
> Beth
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
> 
> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> what is doodle
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:41:06 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:41:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <79EBCFEAEEBE41AEB7471A2BB5030CE4@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com><4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>	<000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com>
	<79EBCFEAEEBE41AEB7471A2BB5030CE4@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <002601cdeaf6$7f0f83b0$7d2e8b10$@gmail.com>

Brandon,

	Actually, I have created polls on Doodle, but have never voted on one, so I am making a somewhat educated guess here. Try up-arrowing from the "make a comment" field, then see if your dates have stayed there. If they don't show up after you have saved them, it does not necessarily mean that they are invisible to other voters; they probably are. So, just to double check the first time you do it, I would email one of the other people who have been invited to the poll and ask if they could see the dates you submitted.

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
That wasn't it, I was able to select and check the boxes, but when I went out of the table and hit save, the whole table stayed the same and the save button turned into 2 unavailable buttons and I was given the choice to make a comment. I clicked on make a comment and typed something into the box and that was all I could figure out to do, nothing else seemed to be there... I couldn't see anything with the Jaws curser, but I may not have known where to look...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:08 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Brandon,

If I remember correctly, there are two options for viewing the times on that
page: calendar view and list view. Try viewing them in list view. Sometimes with Doodle you think you've selected something when you really haven't.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best times to get together in a large group.
https://doodle.com/
My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other button I need to push or what...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher.
>> What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi 
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>> drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a 
>>>> lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> what is doodle
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm 
>>>> leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>> for
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>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>
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>>
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 03:47:03 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:47:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com><4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2><000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com>
	<79EBCFEAEEBE41AEB7471A2BB5030CE4@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <D37CACC4C56A4586B4EFCFB20642870A@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I've never actually used Doodle, but some websites put the confirmation on 
either the top or bottom of the page, and JAWS doesn't always tell you. This 
happens to me a lot with Facebook and a few other websites where I will hit 
a button and a confirmation or question will pop up but it will be on the 
top or bottom of the page. I wonder if maybe that is what it is doing with 
the Save button, and maybe the confirmation that it is saved or a question 
asking for confirmation is somewhere on the page.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?


> Hello,
> That wasn't it, I was able to select and check the boxes, but when I went 
> out of the table and hit save, the whole table stayed the same and the 
> save button turned into 2 unavailable buttons and I was given the choice 
> to make a comment. I clicked on make a comment and typed something into 
> the box and that was all I could figure out to do, nothing else seemed to 
> be there... I couldn't see anything with the Jaws curser, but I may not 
> have known where to look...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:08 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>
> Brandon,
>
> If I remember correctly, there are two options for viewing the times on 
> that page: calendar view and list view. Try viewing them in list view. 
> Sometimes with Doodle you think you've selected something when you really 
> haven't.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith 
> Biggs
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:44 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>
> Hello,
> Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best 
> times to get together in a large group.
> https://doodle.com/
> My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I 
> hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other 
> button I need to push or what...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hope Paulos
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>
> Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, 
> but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read 
> documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher.
>>> What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a
>>>>> drawing program?
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a
>>>>> lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner
>>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and
>>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm
>>>>> leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai
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>>
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>
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 04:08:36 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:08:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <002601cdeaf6$7f0f83b0$7d2e8b10$@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com><4C370D661E434055847C855EDEE44572@BrandonsLaptop2>	<000701cdeaf1$f5a68000$e0f38000$@gmail.com><79EBCFEAEEBE41AEB7471A2BB5030CE4@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<002601cdeaf6$7f0f83b0$7d2e8b10$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD9878EECA234903982436C451621CDA@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
They don't see me.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:41 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Brandon,

Actually, I have created polls on Doodle, but have never voted on one, so I 
am making a somewhat educated guess here. Try up-arrowing from the "make a 
comment" field, then see if your dates have stayed there. If they don't show 
up after you have saved them, it does not necessarily mean that they are 
invisible to other voters; they probably are. So, just to double check the 
first time you do it, I would email one of the other people who have been 
invited to the poll and ask if they could see the dates you submitted.

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith 
Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
That wasn't it, I was able to select and check the boxes, but when I went 
out of the table and hit save, the whole table stayed the same and the save 
button turned into 2 unavailable buttons and I was given the choice to make 
a comment. I clicked on make a comment and typed something into the box and 
that was all I could figure out to do, nothing else seemed to be there... I 
couldn't see anything with the Jaws curser, but I may not have known where 
to look...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:08 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Brandon,

If I remember correctly, there are two options for viewing the times on that
page: calendar view and list view. Try viewing them in list view. Sometimes 
with Doodle you think you've selected something when you really haven't.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith 
Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hello,
Doodle is a scheduling tool that people can use to easily find the best 
times to get together in a large group.
https://doodle.com/
My problem is that after I check all the times I can attend the meeting, I 
hit save and my times are not saved. I'm wondering if there is some other 
button I need to push or what...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, but 
it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read documents, 
etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher.
>> What problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi
>>> <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a
>>>> drawing program?
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a
>>>> lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner
>>>> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> what is doodle
>>>>
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and
>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm
>>>> leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
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>>>> gmail.com
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>>>> for
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>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>
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>>>> ail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>> ail.com
>>
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>
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 04:47:19 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:47:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <001001cdeaf4$de281120$9a783360$@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<001001cdeaf4$de281120$9a783360$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95CB1492-BA5C-4B63-98AA-2CB005C667B5@gmail.com>

> Oh, IC. Can the meetings be held via video on the website? Now that, I would like.


From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 05:37:52 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:37:52 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
Message-ID: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
money reader apps?
 ----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a 
lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 what is doodle

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

 On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello,
 I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs 
and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs 
I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and 
Firefox.
 Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
 Thank you,

 Brandon Keith Biggs

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 05:43:16 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 00:43:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>

I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
> money reader apps?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
> 
> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> what is doodle
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
> %40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> %40gmail.com
> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 06:01:43 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:01:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
	<C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>

The free one is called I note. For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>> money reader apps?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>> 
>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> what is doodle
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> %40gmail.com
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 06:19:14 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:19:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
	<C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
	<6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <805B4E3D-C137-4890-9B7A-7B96D1B542AC@gmail.com>

I agree completely.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> The free one is called I note. For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>>> money reader apps?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>> 
>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> what is doodle
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>> gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 07:40:17 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (coastergirl92 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:40:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <805B4E3D-C137-4890-9B7A-7B96D1B542AC@gmail.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
	<C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
	<6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>
	<805B4E3D-C137-4890-9B7A-7B96D1B542AC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E6898FCB-91E9-49B2-B6DA-DA48BEE9277C@gmail.com>

Now it's 999

Now it's $9.99

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree completely.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The free one is called I note. For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>>>> money reader apps?
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>> 
>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> what is doodle
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 13:56:59 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 05:56:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <E6898FCB-91E9-49B2-B6DA-DA48BEE9277C@gmail.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
	<C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
	<6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>
	<805B4E3D-C137-4890-9B7A-7B96D1B542AC@gmail.com>
	<E6898FCB-91E9-49B2-B6DA-DA48BEE9277C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6800373A-E10E-4667-AC70-DDFEC68BCDD6@gmail.com>

It's more than the $2 it used to be, but it is still much cheaper than any stand alone solution.

Cindy


Cindy Bennett

clb5590 at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 11:40 PM, coastergirl92 at gmail.com wrote:

> Now it's 999
> 
> Now it's $9.99
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I agree completely.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The free one is called I note. For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>>>>> money reader apps?
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 15:37:17 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 10:37:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <95CB1492-BA5C-4B63-98AA-2CB005C667B5@gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<001001cdeaf4$de281120$9a783360$@gmail.com>
	<95CB1492-BA5C-4B63-98AA-2CB005C667B5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS15ECCC0606FA99E9082B55CB270@phx.gbl>

I never heard of Dudle.
Is that a social media platform for different clubs at schools across the country (that is, if they have an account with them?)
Sincerley, Preston Gaylor

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 4, 2013, at 11:48 PM, "Josh Gregory" <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Oh, IC. Can the meetings be held via video on the website? Now that, I would like.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 15:47:19 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 10:47:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] joke
In-Reply-To: <000f01cdeaf3$3d77b420$b8671c60$@gmail.com>
References: <CANnXs0KeMEopB_tN+L1WPzTK+G3yGrmEamJEf3syW2E315Jx0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01cdeaf3$3d77b420$b8671c60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS264614F4BB416AA9A08331CCB270@phx.gbl>

Dear Deb:
Haha! I got the joke, thanks for a great laugh to get my day off on the right foot!
Have a good oe:
Preston

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Deb,
> 
>    Haha! Thanks for the laugh!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:13 PM
> To: NLDippold at aol.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
> acb-l at acb.org; Ric Room; SR; Heather D.; Elaine Cohen
> Subject: [nabs-l] joke
> 
> Smile of the day
> Fred had been a faithful Christian and was in the hospital, near death.
> The family called their preacher to stand with them.
> As the preacher stood next to the bed,
> Fred's condition appeared to deteriorate and he motioned frantically for
> something to write on.
> 
> The pastor lovingly handed him a pen and a piece of paper  and Fred used
> his last bit of energy to scribble a note, then he died.
> The preacher thought it best not to look at the note at that time,  so he
> placed it in his jacket pocket.
> 
> At the funeral, as he was finishing the message,  he realized that he was
> wearing the same jacket that he was wearing when Fred died.
> He said, "You know, Fred handed me a note just before he died.
> I haven't looked at it, but knowing Fred, I'm sure there's a word of
> inspiration there for us all."
> 
> He opened the note, and read, "Hey, you're standing on my oxygen tube!"
> 
> 
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 16:47:05 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 09:47:05 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <6800373A-E10E-4667-AC70-DDFEC68BCDD6@gmail.com>
References: <50e7bc41.0158420a.09a7.ffff8a1c@mx.google.com>
	<C1015758-16D5-43A9-A676-971375936E8D@gmail.com>
	<6EE3DFCF-A010-4ACD-8252-A536D561C245@gmail.com>
	<805B4E3D-C137-4890-9B7A-7B96D1B542AC@gmail.com>
	<E6898FCB-91E9-49B2-B6DA-DA48BEE9277C@gmail.com>
	<6800373A-E10E-4667-AC70-DDFEC68BCDD6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207FD96-8706-4F1F-B6B4-E09832A8A8EA@gmail.com>

Oh well, it all evens out in the end I guess. I paid $20 for the learning Ally app… And now it's free! Go figure! But, seriously, even $10 is a decently realistic price format that good, I think.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:56 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's more than the $2 it used to be, but it is still much cheaper than any stand alone solution.
> 
> Cindy
> 
> 
> Cindy Bennett
> 
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 11:40 PM, coastergirl92 at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Now it's 999
>> 
>> Now it's $9.99
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree completely.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The free one is called I note. For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand. There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>>>>>> money reader apps?
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 17:24:28 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 09:24:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
Message-ID: <50e861de.c750420a.55ce.2b51@mx.google.com>

When you spend the money on the App what kind of billing 
information do you have to enter?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:19:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps

I agree completely.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 The free one is called I note.  For me, though, spending two or 
three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good 
investment.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't 
remember the name of it offhand.  There is another one called 
looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot 
better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold 
the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to 
physically take a picture and wait for it to respond

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
 money reader apps?
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

 I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a 
lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
<hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

 what is doodle

 NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

 On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello,
 I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs 
and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs 
I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and 
Firefox.
 Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
 Thank you,

 Brandon Keith Biggs

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan  5 17:28:18 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 12:28:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <808B6D48-E7CD-4F27-A1F5-2757618B412F@gmail.com>
References: <C07952E854074C0096A4848908869307@BrandonsLaptop2><BF9AE8F5-4A41-4260-93B1-BF601FC037BB@gmail.com><6913BFF1-2732-4739-99F7-ECD725B13E29@gmail.com>
	<808B6D48-E7CD-4F27-A1F5-2757618B412F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8C48702F0124250B48E0DAB25480B15@OwnerPC>

Hope,
what is moodle? I thought it was  like blackboard.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Have used moodle but not doodle.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:41 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of 
> colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> what is doodle
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups 
>>> that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I 
>>> can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 17:30:18 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 10:30:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <50e861de.c750420a.55ce.2b51@mx.google.com>
References: <50e861de.c750420a.55ce.2b51@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1B036B6A-EBCF-4B88-BF13-E503663293DB@gmail.com>

That's all handled with your Apple ID once you register your phone initially. When you create your Apple ID, there is a prompt for you to enter your credit card number. Once that's done, every time you download an app that costs money, it will just automatically charge your credit card. So, whenever you put in your password to download an app, or a song, or a book, or anything… Make sure you know if you're being charged anything, and how much you are being charged first. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:

> When you spend the money on the App what kind of billing information do you have to enter?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:19:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
> 
> I agree completely.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The free one is called I note.  For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand.  There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
> money reader apps?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
> 
> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> what is doodle
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
> %40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan  5 17:32:45 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 12:32:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com><16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com><14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com><C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <7627AD19CE4A468BB2CAF40F75281257@OwnerPC>

He is asking about doodle though.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?

Hi,
My community college also uses Moodle, and it seems to be a lot more
accessible than Blackboard is. I am not sure if the original poster who
posted the question is referring to Moodle or an actual program called
Doodle.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?


> Moodle as an e-learning management system. It is similar to blackboard, 
> but it allows one to take tests, quizzes, turn in assignments, read 
> documents, etc. it also has audio features such as streaming files.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity's sake, what exactly is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there. I've used this quite a bit both the student and teacher. What 
>>> problems are you having with Jaws and Firefox? Perhaps I can help.
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, LOL. Sorry… I thought Doodle  was the college one.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're thinking of Moodle, not Doodle.  I'm guessing Doodle is a 
>>>>> drawing program?
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot 
>>>>> of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what is doodle
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" 
>>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and 
>>>>> groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader 
>>>>> in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>>>>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>>>> 07%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 17:46:52 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 12:46:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
In-Reply-To: <1B036B6A-EBCF-4B88-BF13-E503663293DB@gmail.com>
References: <50e861de.c750420a.55ce.2b51@mx.google.com>
	<1B036B6A-EBCF-4B88-BF13-E503663293DB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS37020FC9F519463DA629935DC270@phx.gbl>

Think they removed Look Tell, it can not be found within the App Store.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:31 PM, "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's all handled with your Apple ID once you register your phone initially. When you create your Apple ID, there is a prompt for you to enter your credit card number. Once that's done, every time you download an app that costs money, it will just automatically charge your credit card. So, whenever you put in your password to download an app, or a song, or a book, or anything… Make sure you know if you're being charged anything, and how much you are being charged first. :-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> When you spend the money on the App what kind of billing information do you have to enter?
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:19:14 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Money Reader Apps
>> 
>> I agree completely.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The free one is called I note.  For me, though, spending two or three bucks on the look tell money reader was a very good investment.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I know there is one that was made by the US government, I don't remember the name of it offhand.  There is another one called looktell, which you have to pay for but which I think is a lot better because it automatically recognizes the bill when you hold the camera to it, whereas with the other app you have to physically take a picture and wait for it to respond
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any free
>> money reader apps?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:41:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
>> 
>> I think, if I'm not mistaken, it's sort of like blackboard and a lot of colleges and stuff use it to teach online things.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> what is doodle
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 19:03, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I'm wondering if anyone has used Doodle? I'm in lots of clubs and groups that use it and I would like to use it in the clubs I'm leader in, but I can't figure out how to use it with Jaws and Firefox.
>> Has anyone used it and if so, what did you use?
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> e%40gmail.com
>> 
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>> 
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 20:06:09 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 12:06:09 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Western Region Student Seminar.
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjO85A0hRAghX-gynHoSuG3KiXWqBE4rJF11pPVxfPY9-w@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

 the  below information is intended for you if you are reading this,
as this seminar is open to anyone in the country  who wants to come to
it.    Please read and feel free to contact me if you have any
questions that  wern't answered in the flyer.  I'll be glad to get you
connected with the   needed info.
 Note: financial assistance  is not available  via Nabs or  the host affiliate.

Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar

When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013

Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and

Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.

Phone: (702) 732-9100

College Students:

Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.

Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
in your scholastic life.

Network with students from all over the west coast

Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.

Parents:

Meet other parents and network

Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.

Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.

Get your student connected with Mentors.

All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
(National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
opportunity to  enjoy
an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun activities within the hotel.

Note: All students under the age of 18 must be accompanied by a guardian

RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
email: swstudentseminar at gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 21:14:06 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 14:14:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Online Survey for People with Physical Disabilities
In-Reply-To: <8216217716042445.WA.sar212exeter.ac.uk@www.jiscmail.ac.uk>
References: <8216217716042445.WA.sar212exeter.ac.uk@www.jiscmail.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCVxrS=Kqg8doNsep6EbxR=oz1CSu-439jQw3ZyY7V+qw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Stuart Read <sar212 at exeter.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 15:57:06 +0000
Subject: Online Survey for People with Physical Disabilities
To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk

Dear all,

My name is Stuart Read, I have cerebral palsy, and I am a PhD
Psychology student at the University of Exeter, UK. My area of
research explores the attitudes and experiences of people with
physical disabilities.

I am currently conducting an online survey, and I am seeking to
recruit adults with physical disabilities, who are aged 16 and over.

In this survey, you will be shown a series of questions about your
attitudes and experiences as a person with a physical disability, and
are asked to provide your opinions to each question. You will also be
shown a series of statements about your identity, and how you see
others who also have a physical disability.

The survey will take approximately 10-15 minutes to complete. Your
participation in this study is completely voluntary, and any answers
you provide will be confidential.

To thank you for participating, you will have the opportunity to enter
a raffle for the chance to win one of four £25 online gift vouchers
(or equivalent currency) or your choice.

If you think you might be interested in participating, please click
the link below.

http://survey.ex.ac.uk/~sar212/Attitudes

I would be very grateful if you were able to forward this information
on to any individuals with physical disabilities who may be interested
in completing the survey.

Thank you in advance,

Stuart Read
sar212 at exeter.ac.uk

________________End of message________________

This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for
Disability Studies at the University of Leeds
(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies).

Enquiries about list administration should be sent to
disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk

Archives and tools are located at:
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You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page.


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 22:06:50 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:06:50 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] track changes and the braillenote apex
Message-ID: <50e8a401.669dec0a.20ec.0681@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone, Sophie here. I have a question about track changes, 
a microsoft word program. Long story short, I wrote something, 
which someone is going to edit using track changes. Will I ever 
be able to read the changes she made to my manuscript with my 
braillenote? Thanks in advantage for any answers or help.


From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 23:07:14 2013
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 17:07:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <7627AD19CE4A468BB2CAF40F75281257@OwnerPC>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>
	<14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
	<7627AD19CE4A468BB2CAF40F75281257@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALUTO93BxD96Gxj89hatFvpGiGgjUN=1LsTt73u1tNAjgnEGKw@mail.gmail.com>

Brandin,

This may or may not be helpful, especially if you have already made
the attempt.  However, have you tried using Doodle with Internet
Explorer?  There are a number of websites which I find it utterly
impossible to use with Firefox, but not with Internet Explorer.
Regards,
Courtney


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 23:10:53 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 18:10:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Doodle?
In-Reply-To: <CALUTO93BxD96Gxj89hatFvpGiGgjUN=1LsTt73u1tNAjgnEGKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e789a1.47602b0a.29e1.ffffe9f6SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<4768BEA3-0E4B-4A90-A6E8-91F7A0BCB91B@gmail.com>
	<16C7A309-5B59-4489-B3FC-32C280351088@gmail.com>
	<14A3E9B7-5EC9-4477-88C7-DBB6F9851ECD@gmail.com>
	<C0CCED89-43D0-4C43-91A8-2C09DE2CED93@gmail.com>
	<FAF690281EDB457B8A3BBF28CCFEAB60@acerd37f251f21>
	<7627AD19CE4A468BB2CAF40F75281257@OwnerPC>
	<CALUTO93BxD96Gxj89hatFvpGiGgjUN=1LsTt73u1tNAjgnEGKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-3343368915145394851@unknownmsgid>

That is what I use the site with.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brandin,
>
> This may or may not be helpful, especially if you have already made
> the attempt.  However, have you tried using Doodle with Internet
> Explorer?  There are a number of websites which I find it utterly
> impossible to use with Firefox, but not with Internet Explorer.
> Regards,
> Courtney
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 01:06:49 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 20:06:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
Message-ID: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>

Hi all, 
I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more than the 4S. Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user? 
Thank you, 
Misty 

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 01:52:08 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 18:52:08 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Misty,
I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
extra, unless you care about photo quality.
Arielle

On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with Cricket I
> have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more than the 4S.
> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the IPhone
> 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I have looked at
> reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some changes in the size
> and the type of charger it uses to charge, and better screen and
> camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other specs seem to be about
> the same. I am trying to decide whether the extra $100 is worth spending for
> the 5 or if I am better off with the cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to
> the store and see if they will let me look at both, but I am just wondering
> what the experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover
> user?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 02:05:24 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 21:05:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone used Psychportal?
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY29vB+ybxNHP38EEyX+JP8y-Vo3XN+=rnKeeCVs_RSKA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm Kaiti and I'm a freshman music major and member of the Ohio division.

I was wondering if anyone who has taken some psych courses might be
able to vouch for the accessibility of Psychportal.  Unfortunately,
I'm in one of those situations where the semester starts next week and
my prof for abnormal psych just decided which books we are going to
use.  She says that in lieu of a textbook we will be using an online
thing called Psychportal.  I've googled it but can't seem to test the
accessibility as you need a login name and password.  If anyone has
had some experience with it and could tell me how accessible it is I
would appreciate it.

By the way, I'm using Windows 7 with Firefox and/or IE and JAWS 13.  Thanks.

-- 
Kaiti


From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 02:28:54 2013
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 19:28:54 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>

I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However, there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5 more than the 4S.

Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract, then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2 years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.

Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your phone.

Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5, perhaps even $100 more.

So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it for a bunch of other reasons.

Cheers,

Marc


On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Misty,
> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with Cricket I
>> have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more than the 4S.
>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the IPhone
>> 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I have looked at
>> reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some changes in the size
>> and the type of charger it uses to charge, and better screen and
>> camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other specs seem to be about
>> the same. I am trying to decide whether the extra $100 is worth spending for
>> the 5 or if I am better off with the cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to
>> the store and see if they will let me look at both, but I am just wondering
>> what the experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover
>> user?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com



From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  6 03:21:58 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:21:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone used Psychportal?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FY29vB+ybxNHP38EEyX+JP8y-Vo3XN+=rnKeeCVs_RSKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FY29vB+ybxNHP38EEyX+JP8y-Vo3XN+=rnKeeCVs_RSKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS313068F1D101955BC18E74FDC260@phx.gbl>

Good evening,
PsychPortal is something fairly new.  However, I can ask around at my disability office since, some of the staff are blind themselves.  A good start, for you, would be to contact your DS office with the same message you provided to us here regarding your question.  Maybe, they can provide you an accommodation where, they retrieve the readings and convert them if needed.
Best wishes,
William


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:06 PM, "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm Kaiti and I'm a freshman music major and member of the Ohio division.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone who has taken some psych courses might be
> able to vouch for the accessibility of Psychportal.  Unfortunately,
> I'm in one of those situations where the semester starts next week and
> my prof for abnormal psych just decided which books we are going to
> use.  She says that in lieu of a textbook we will be using an online
> thing called Psychportal.  I've googled it but can't seem to test the
> accessibility as you need a login name and password.  If anyone has
> had some experience with it and could tell me how accessible it is I
> would appreciate it.
> 
> By the way, I'm using Windows 7 with Firefox and/or IE and JAWS 13.  Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  6 03:27:20 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:27:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS1151F4B9423F017E4F63F24DC260@phx.gbl>

Good evening,
You have options.  I would definably take a look at both mottles in store.  In addition, I would lean more towards purchasing the 4S however.  As a rule, I would wait a while before buying the 5 since, as you know, most technology needs to work out all and any kinks within their system.  Hope my feedback helps.  

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 5, 2013, at 8:08 PM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all, 
> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more than the 4S. Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user? 
> Thank you, 
> Misty 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan  6 03:37:34 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:37:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] David Pillischer wasRE: Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638F05@CH1PRD0710MB393.n
	amprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638F05@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000091980891@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Sighted electronics is gone, he has a new 
company.  The info is at work though, so will have to wait until Monday.

Dave

At 10:25 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>Goodness!
>I can't believe I misspelled David's name again!
>It's David Pillischer, and he used to run Sighted Electronics.
>What happened to him?
>I couldn't find his number or E-mail online, anymore.
>His Braille writer that I mentioned in a 
>previous post is the sollution to the problem here.
>Thanks, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on 
>behalf of Kirt [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:17 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
>Brandon,
>I'll wait to see how this actually pans out. 
>Incidentally, I have done several time test 
>comparing my speed riding the same text on a 
>braille keyboard and on a regular keyboard. It 
>turns out I am consistently faster with the 
>QWERTY keyboard
 And I know I am definitely i 
>QWERTY keyboard
 And I know my braille typing 
>speed is well above average. I'm curious to see 
>if anyone else has done something similar, and, if so, what their results were?
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Brandon Keith 
>Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Below is an article I was sent about a new 
> app. I am not a fan of the way the creator 
> views blind people, but I do think having a 
> Braille Writer on the tablet would be very 
> nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille than in print LOL...
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> >
> >
> > STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> > Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> » 
> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » 
> News & 
> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> 
> » Stanford summer course yields touchscreen Braille writer
> > <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> > In a two-month summer course on 
> high-performance computing, promising 
> undergrads compete to create innovative 
> applications. This summer's winner developed a 
> touchscreen Braille writer that stands to 
> revolutionize how the blind negotiate an unseen 
> world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times more.
> > Andrew Myers
> >
> > Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and 
> sandstone of Stanford, the Army 
> High-Performance Computing Research Center 
> (AHPCRC) invites a select group of 
> undergraduates from across the country gather 
> for a two-month immersion into the wonders of advanced computing.
> >
> > Some of the undergraduates are gathered into 
> teams. Some work alone. All are assigned 
> mentors and tasked with a challenge. They 
> compete, American Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> >
> > The competition is made possible in part by a 
> collaboration between the U.S. Army and several 
> university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
> >
> > Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a 
> student both lucky and good. He is now in his 
> senior year at New Mexico State University. 
> Last June, he came to Stanford at the 
> suggestion of one of his professors. His 
> mentors were Adrian Lew, an assistant professor 
> of mechanical engineering, and Sohan 
> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford 
> studying computational mathematics.
> >
> > "Originally, our assignment was to create a 
> character-recognition application that would 
> use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or 
> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into 
> readable text," said Duran. "It was a cool 
> challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> >
> > BIGGER FISH
> >
> > Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew 
> and Dharmaraja began to talk to the Stanford 
> Office of Accessible 
> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, 
> people whose profession is helping blind and 
> visually impaired students negotiate the world 
> of higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> >
> > While a Braille character reader would be 
> helpful to the blind, Lew and Dharmaraja 
> learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> >
> > "How does a blind person orient a printed 
> page so that the computer knows which side is 
> up? How does a blind person ensure proper 
> lighting of the paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the 
> technology, while definitely helpful, would be 
> limited in day-to-day application."
> >
> > "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> >
> > So, the three began to ask questions. That is 
> when they stumbled upon a sweet spot.
> >
> > "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> >
> > "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how 
> would you take notes?" said Lew. "What if you 
> were on the street and needed to copy down a 
> phone number? These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> >
> > There are devices that help the blind write 
> Braille, to send email and so forth, but they 
> are essentially specialized laptops that cost, 
> in some cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device 
> of limited functionality, beyond typing Braille, of course.
> >
> > "Your standard tablet has more capability at 
> a tenth the price," said Duran.
> >
> > "So, we put two and two together. We 
> developed a tablet Braille writer," said 
> Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> >
> > 
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan 
> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, 
> demonstrates how the software works.
> >
> > First, however, the student-mentor team had 
> to learn Braille. Originally developed for the 
> French military, Braille is a relatively simple 
> code with each character made up of variations 
> of six dots - or bumps, really - arranged in a 
> 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their fingertips.
> >
> > As any computational mathematician will tell 
> you, such a matrix yields two-to-the-sixth 
> minus one variations, or 63 possible 
> characters. These 63 characters are enough for 
> a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits, 
> with several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> >
> > Over the years, however, those 63 characters 
> got quickly gobbled up - through the addition 
> of character-modification keystrokes, the total 
> grew and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> >
> > CHALLENGE
> >
> > A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop 
> with no monitor and an eight-key keyboard - six 
> to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete key.
> >
> > Duplicating the Braille keypad on a 
> touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, but 
> there was at least one significant challenge: 
> How does a blind person find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> >
> > Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options 
> before arriving at a clever and simple 
> solution. They did not create virtual keys that 
> the fingertips must find; they made keys that 
> find the fingertips. The user simply touches 
> eight fingertips to the glass, and the keys 
> orient themselves to the fingers. If the user 
> becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as 
> lifting all eight fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> >
> > "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so 
> simple, so beautiful. It was fun to see."
> >
> > Beyond the price difference, touchscreens 
> offer at least one other significant advantage 
> over standard Braille writers: "They're 
> customizable," Dharmaraja noted. "They can 
> accommodate users whose fingers are small or 
> large, those who type with fingers close 
> together or far apart, even to allow a user to 
> type on a tablet hanging around the neck with 
> hands opposed as if playing a clarinet."
> >
> > "No standard Braille writer can do this," 
> said Professor Charbel Farhat, the chair of the 
> Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and 
> executive director of the summer program. "This 
> is a real step forward for the blind."
> >
> > SHOWING OFF
> >
> > In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and 
> readied himself before the touchscreen. He 
> typed out an email address and a simple subject 
> line. Then he typed one of the best-known 
> mathematical formulas in the world, the Burgers 
> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, 
> and followed with the chemical equation for 
> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> 
> - complex stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> >
> > For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the 
> greatest joy was in seeing a blind person using 
> his creation for the first time. "That was so 
> awesome," he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> >
> > In the immediate future, there are technical 
> and legal hurdles to address, but someday, 
> perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired 
> may find themselves with a more cost-effective 
> Braille writer that is both portable and 
> blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
> >
> > "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, 
> which not only trains undergraduate students in 
> computational sciences but also exposes 
> students to real-world research applications," 
> said Raju Namburu, the cooperative agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> >
> > The center addresses the Army's most 
> difficult scientific and engineering challenges 
> using high-performance computing. Stanford 
> University is the AHPCRC lead organization with 
> oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
> >
> > As for his summer courses, Farhat is 
> optimistic. "Let's remember," he points out, 
> "This was a two-month summer project that 
> evolved because a few smart people asked some 
> good questions. I'm always amazed by what the 
> students accomplish in these courses, but this 
> was something special. Each year it seems to get better and more impressive."
> >
> > Andrew Myers is associate director of 
> communications for the Stanford School of Engineering.
> >
> > Video
> >
> > Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen 
> Braille Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> >
> > Thursday, October 6, 2011
> >
> > Sent from my iPad



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan  6 03:40:42 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:40:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>

It seems to me that you folks are getting all 
worked up over nothing.  As I understand it, the 
software is for input only, and would run on a 
tablet like the iPad with access through 
voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille input, 
some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.

Dave

At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>me?
>In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>it are without much basis.
>Arielle
>
>On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > I'm sorry for the double post
 But I feel like I need to clarify. Already,
> > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
> > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an 
> iPad. I see a decent amount of
> > value and that, I think.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> >> already exists.
> >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the way
> >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer on
> >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
> >>> Braille
> >>>
> >>> than in print LOL...
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
> >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> » News &
> >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> » Stanford summer
> >>> course
> >>>
> >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
> >>> winner
> >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize how
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
> >>> times
> >>>
> >>> more.
> >>> Andrew Myers
> >>>
> >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
> >>> Army
> >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
> >>> group
> >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
> >>> immersion
> >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
> >>>
> >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone. All
> >>> are
> >>>
> >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> >>>
> >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between the
> >>> U.S.
> >>>
> >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
> >>> AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good. He
> >>> is
> >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he came
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
> >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
> >>> Dharmaraja,
> >>>
> >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
> >>>
> >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
> >>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said Duran.
> >>> "It
> >>>
> >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> >>>
> >>> BIGGER FISH
> >>>
> >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
> >>> talk
> >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
> >>> profession
> >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> >>>
> >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew and
> >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> >>>
> >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer knows
> >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of the
> >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
> >>> would
> >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
> >>>
> >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon a
> >>> sweet spot.
> >>>
> >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said Lew.
> >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone number?
> >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> >>>
> >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and so
> >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality, beyond
> >>> typing Braille, of course.
> >>>
> >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> >>> Duran.
> >>>
> >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille writer,"
> >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> >>>
> >>> 
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
> >>> software
> >>>
> >>> works.
> >>>
> >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille. Originally
> >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
> >>> their
> >>>
> >>> fingertips.
> >>>
> >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters. These
> >>> 63
> >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> >>>
> >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total grew
> >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> >>>
> >>> CHALLENGE
> >>>
> >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
> >>> eight-key
> >>>
> >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
> >>> delete
> >>>
> >>> key.
> >>>
> >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
> >>> enough,
> >>>
> >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind person
> >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever and
> >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
> >>> must
> >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
> >>> eight
> >>>
> >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the fingers.
> >>> If
> >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> >>>
> >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It was
> >>> fun to see."
> >>>
> >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
> >>> customizable,"
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small or
> >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even to
> >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
> >>> opposed
> >>>
> >>> as if playing a clarinet."
> >>>
> >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel Farhat,
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
> >>> director
> >>>
> >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
> >>>
> >>> SHOWING OFF
> >>>
> >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
> >>> Then
> >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>, and
> >>> followed with the chemical equation for
> >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> >>>
> >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in seeing
> >>> a
> >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
> >>> awesome,"
> >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> >>>
> >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
> >>> address,
> >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
> >>> portable
> >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
> >>>
> >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
> >>> students
> >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the cooperative
> >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and engineering
> >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is the
> >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
> >>> Laboratory.
> >>>
> >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
> >>> points
> >>>
> >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
> >>> smart
> >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the students
> >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year it
> >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
> >>> School
> >>>
> >>> of Engineering.
> >>>
> >>> Video
> >>>
> >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> >>>
> >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 03:41:52 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:41:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>

Marc,

	Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.

	As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
visual in nature.

Chris Nusbaum

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?

I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
more than the 4S.

Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.

Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
phone.

Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
perhaps even $100 more.

So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
for a bunch of other reasons.

Cheers,

Marc


On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Misty,
> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the 
> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and 
> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100 
> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with 
>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
than the 4S.
>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the 
>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I 
>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some 
>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and 
>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other 
>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the 
>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the 
>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they 
>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the 
>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> .com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 03:57:36 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:57:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>

Dave,

	My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.

Dave

At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>me?
>In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>it are without much basis.
>Arielle
>
>On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
Already,
> > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
> > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an 
> iPad. I see a decent amount of
> > value and that, I think.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> >> already exists.
> >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
way
> >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer
on
> >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
> >>> Braille
> >>>
> >>> than in print LOL...
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
> >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
> >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
> >>> course
> >>>
> >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
> >>> winner
> >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
how
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
> >>> times
> >>>
> >>> more.
> >>> Andrew Myers
> >>>
> >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
> >>> Army
> >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
> >>> group
> >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
> >>> immersion
> >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
> >>>
> >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
All
> >>> are
> >>>
> >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> >>>
> >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
the
> >>> U.S.
> >>>
> >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
> >>> AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
He
> >>> is
> >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
came
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
> >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
> >>> Dharmaraja,
> >>>
> >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
> >>>
> >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
> >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
Duran.
> >>> "It
> >>>
> >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> >>>
> >>> BIGGER FISH
> >>>
> >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
> >>> talk
> >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
> >>> profession
> >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> >>>
> >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
and
> >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> >>>
> >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
knows
> >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
the
> >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
> >>> would
> >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
> >>>
> >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
a
> >>> sweet spot.
> >>>
> >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
Lew.
> >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
number?
> >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> >>>
> >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and
so
> >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
beyond
> >>> typing Braille, of course.
> >>>
> >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> >>> Duran.
> >>>
> >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
writer,"
> >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> >>>
> >>> 
>
[http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
> >>> software
> >>>
> >>> works.
> >>>
> >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
Originally
> >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
> >>> their
> >>>
> >>> fingertips.
> >>>
> >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
These
> >>> 63
> >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> >>>
> >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
grew
> >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> >>>
> >>> CHALLENGE
> >>>
> >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
> >>> eight-key
> >>>
> >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
> >>> delete
> >>>
> >>> key.
> >>>
> >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
> >>> enough,
> >>>
> >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
person
> >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
and
> >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
> >>> must
> >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
> >>> eight
> >>>
> >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
fingers.
> >>> If
> >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> >>>
> >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
was
> >>> fun to see."
> >>>
> >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
> >>> customizable,"
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
or
> >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
to
> >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
> >>> opposed
> >>>
> >>> as if playing a clarinet."
> >>>
> >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
Farhat,
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
> >>> director
> >>>
> >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
> >>>
> >>> SHOWING OFF
> >>>
> >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
> >>> Then
> >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
and
> >>> followed with the chemical equation for
> >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> >>>
> >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
seeing
> >>> a
> >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
> >>> awesome,"
> >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> >>>
> >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
> >>> address,
> >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
> >>> portable
> >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
before.
> >>>
> >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
> >>> students
> >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
cooperative
> >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
engineering
> >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
the
> >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
> >>> Laboratory.
> >>>
> >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
> >>> points
> >>>
> >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
> >>> smart
> >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
students
> >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year
it
> >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
> >>> School
> >>>
> >>> of Engineering.
> >>>
> >>> Video
> >>>
> >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> >>>
> >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011


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om



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 04:09:19 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 20:09:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com><auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>

What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my 
texts and have it come out in English.
t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
;d
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

Dave,

My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.

Dave

At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>me?
>In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>it are without much basis.
>Arielle
>
>On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
Already,
> > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
> > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
> iPad. I see a decent amount of
> > value and that, I think.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> >> already exists.
> >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
way
> >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer
on
> >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
> >>> Braille
> >>>
> >>> than in print LOL...
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
> >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
> >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
> >>> course
> >>>
> >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
> >>> winner
> >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
how
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
> >>> times
> >>>
> >>> more.
> >>> Andrew Myers
> >>>
> >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
> >>> Army
> >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
> >>> group
> >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
> >>> immersion
> >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
> >>>
> >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
All
> >>> are
> >>>
> >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> >>>
> >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
the
> >>> U.S.
> >>>
> >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
> >>> AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
He
> >>> is
> >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
came
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
> >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
> >>> Dharmaraja,
> >>>
> >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
> >>>
> >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
> >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
Duran.
> >>> "It
> >>>
> >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> >>>
> >>> BIGGER FISH
> >>>
> >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
> >>> talk
> >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
> >>> profession
> >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> >>>
> >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
and
> >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> >>>
> >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
knows
> >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
the
> >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
> >>> would
> >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
> >>>
> >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
a
> >>> sweet spot.
> >>>
> >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> >>>
> >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
Lew.
> >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
number?
> >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> >>>
> >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and
so
> >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
beyond
> >>> typing Braille, of course.
> >>>
> >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> >>> Duran.
> >>>
> >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
writer,"
> >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> >>>
> >>>
>
[http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
> >>> software
> >>>
> >>> works.
> >>>
> >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
Originally
> >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
> >>> their
> >>>
> >>> fingertips.
> >>>
> >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
These
> >>> 63
> >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> >>>
> >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
grew
> >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> >>>
> >>> CHALLENGE
> >>>
> >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
> >>> eight-key
> >>>
> >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
> >>> delete
> >>>
> >>> key.
> >>>
> >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
> >>> enough,
> >>>
> >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
person
> >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
and
> >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
> >>> must
> >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
> >>> eight
> >>>
> >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
fingers.
> >>> If
> >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> >>>
> >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
was
> >>> fun to see."
> >>>
> >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
> >>> customizable,"
> >>>
> >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
or
> >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
to
> >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
> >>> opposed
> >>>
> >>> as if playing a clarinet."
> >>>
> >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
Farhat,
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
> >>> director
> >>>
> >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
> >>>
> >>> SHOWING OFF
> >>>
> >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
> >>> Then
> >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
and
> >>> followed with the chemical equation for
> >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> >>>
> >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
seeing
> >>> a
> >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
> >>> awesome,"
> >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> >>>
> >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
> >>> address,
> >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
> >>> portable
> >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
before.
> >>>
> >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
> >>> students
> >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
cooperative
> >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> >>>
> >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
engineering
> >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
the
> >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
> >>> Laboratory.
> >>>
> >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
> >>> points
> >>>
> >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
> >>> smart
> >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
students
> >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year
it
> >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
> >>> School
> >>>
> >>> of Engineering.
> >>>
> >>> Video
> >>>
> >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> >>>
> >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011


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From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 04:38:26 2013
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 21:38:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
	<014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.

If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a contract for $200.

As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.

From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing contracts as well.

Best,

Marc
On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Marc,
> 
> 	Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
> 
> 	As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
> visual in nature.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
> 
> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
> more than the 4S.
> 
> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
> 
> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
> phone.
> 
> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
> perhaps even $100 more.
> 
> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
> for a bunch of other reasons.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Misty,
>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the 
>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and 
>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100 
>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with 
>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
> than the 4S.
>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the 
>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I 
>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some 
>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and 
>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other 
>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the 
>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the 
>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they 
>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the 
>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>>> Thank you,
>>> Misty
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail
>>> .com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40g
>> mail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From kathrynwebster at me.com  Sun Jan  6 04:46:08 2013
From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 23:46:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS1151F4B9423F017E4F63F24DC260@phx.gbl>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<BLU403-EAS1151F4B9423F017E4F63F24DC260@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <42DD4139-A8B8-4C8D-8C56-CCF4DD599E4C@me.com>

Good evening, to talk to someone who has had the iPhone 4 and the  iPhone five I strongly support the iPhone five. The iPhone five is very quick with the voiceover once I press something it immediately is readback literally instantly.I am so partial to the five because of its speed on the Internet as well as accessibility with apps. please if you have any further questions email me off-line at Katherinewebster at me.com 
Kate 
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 10:27 PM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Good evening,
> You have options.  I would definably take a look at both mottles in store.  In addition, I would lean more towards purchasing the 4S however.  As a rule, I would wait a while before buying the 5 since, as you know, most technology needs to work out all and any kinks within their system.  Hope my feedback helps.  
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 8:08 PM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all, 
>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more than the 4S. Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user? 
>> Thank you, 
>> Misty 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 05:08:58 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 00:08:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com><D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com><014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
	<4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with 
Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket 
sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the IPhone 
4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be obligated 
to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I wouldn't 
necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length of time. That 
is why I am asking about the differences in the features or which phone is 
better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I 
can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
Thanks,
Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?


> Hi Chris,
>
> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new 
> iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless 
> you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are 
> locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the 
> phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty 
> sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other 
> words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the 
> next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of 
> the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire 
> contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't 
> make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an 
> extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.
>
> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It 
> would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a 
> contract for $200.
>
> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone 
> will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.
>
> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money 
> up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, 
> assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing 
> contracts as well.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marc,
>>
>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>
>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct 
>> if
>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it 
>> was
>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought 
>> a
>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade 
>> fee
>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. 
>> I
>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 
>> are
>> visual in nature.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>
>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, 
>> the
>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. 
>> However,
>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 
>> 5
>> more than the 4S.
>>
>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a 
>> contract,
>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up 
>> front
>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly 
>> phone
>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies 
>> make
>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 
>> over 2
>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless 
>> of
>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>
>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for 
>> your
>> phone.
>>
>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 
>> 5,
>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>
>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for 
>> voiceover/accessibility
>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford 
>> it
>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Misty,
>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
>> than the 4S.
>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the
>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other
>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the
>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover 
>>>> user?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Misty
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40g
>>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 05:30:54 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 21:30:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
	<014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
	<4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>
	<EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>

Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you could find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people often sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you know first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for online options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, look around for a used one.

The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is a lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you buy the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have to use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one are expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging issues with VoiceOver on the 5.


Cindy Bennett

clb5590 at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length of time. That is why I am asking about the differences in the features or which phone is better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
> Thanks,
> Misty
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
> 
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.
>> 
>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a contract for $200.
>> 
>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.
>> 
>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing contracts as well.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Marc
>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Marc,
>>> 
>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>> 
>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
>>> visual in nature.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>> 
>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
>>> more than the 4S.
>>> 
>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>> 
>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
>>> phone.
>>> 
>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>> 
>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Marc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
>>> than the 4S.
>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the
>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other
>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the
>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail
>>>>> .com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>> mail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:07:21 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:07:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone used Psychportal?
In-Reply-To: <BLU404-EAS313068F1D101955BC18E74FDC260@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FY29vB+ybxNHP38EEyX+JP8y-Vo3XN+=rnKeeCVs_RSKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU404-EAS313068F1D101955BC18E74FDC260@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbX0zQdf4OqUA6vE6oRzn2HDH0MWMHrCJHA45peG0CYfg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

William, thanks for the info; I wasn't even aware that this is something new.
I have let my disability services counselor and technology specialist
know and the three of us are taking a divide and concor approach to
figuring the portal out since the term is so close.  If it isn't
accessible they will convert the information to text and I will use
that along with email like you said.  Although, my prof also sent me
the book information for the textbook the portal supports, so if it
comes down to it pretty soon I may talk to her and see if I can buy
the textbook and have disability services only convert the assignments
or quizzes that might be on the portal if they are there.

Cory, I'm majoring in music therapy with a minor in psych and want to
work with teens who have special needs or addictions.  Haven't decided
which one yet.  :)

Thanks,

On 1/5/13, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good evening,
> PsychPortal is something fairly new.  However, I can ask around at my
> disability office since, some of the staff are blind themselves.  A good
> start, for you, would be to contact your DS office with the same message you
> provided to us here regarding your question.  Maybe, they can provide you an
> accommodation where, they retrieve the readings and convert them if needed.
> Best wishes,
> William
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:06 PM, "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm Kaiti and I'm a freshman music major and member of the Ohio division.
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone who has taken some psych courses might be
>> able to vouch for the accessibility of Psychportal.  Unfortunately,
>> I'm in one of those situations where the semester starts next week and
>> my prof for abnormal psych just decided which books we are going to
>> use.  She says that in lieu of a textbook we will be using an online
>> thing called Psychportal.  I've googled it but can't seem to test the
>> accessibility as you need a login name and password.  If anyone has
>> had some experience with it and could tell me how accessible it is I
>> would appreciate it.
>>
>> By the way, I'm using Windows 7 with Firefox and/or IE and JAWS 13.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:37:59 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:37:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.

I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.

On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my
> texts and have it come out in English.
> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
> ;d
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
> Dave,
>
> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using
> it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>>on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>me?
>>In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>it are without much basis.
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
> Already,
>> > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
>> > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>> > value and that, I think.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>> >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>> >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>> >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>> >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>> >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>> >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>> >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>> >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>> >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>> >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>> >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>> >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>> >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>> >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>> >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>> >> already exists.
>> >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>> >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>> >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>> >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>> >> Arielle
>> >>
>> >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
> way
>> >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>> >>> Writer
> on
>> >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>> >>> Braille
>> >>>
>> >>> than in print LOL...
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>> >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>> >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
>> >>> course
>> >>>
>> >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>> >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>> >>> winner
>> >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
> how
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>> >>> times
>> >>>
>> >>> more.
>> >>> Andrew Myers
>> >>>
>> >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>> >>> Army
>> >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>> >>> group
>> >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>> >>> immersion
>> >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
> All
>> >>> are
>> >>>
>> >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>> >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> >>>
>> >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
> the
>> >>> U.S.
>> >>>
>> >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>> >>> AHPCRC.
>> >>>
>> >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
> He
>> >>> is
>> >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
> came
>> >>> to
>> >>>
>> >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>> >>> Adrian
>> >>>
>> >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>> >>> Dharmaraja,
>> >>>
>> >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>> >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
>> >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
> Duran.
>> >>> "It
>> >>>
>> >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> >>>
>> >>> BIGGER FISH
>> >>>
>> >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>> >>> talk
>> >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>> >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>> >>> profession
>> >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world
>> >>> of
>> >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> >>>
>> >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
> and
>> >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>> >>> around.
>> >>>
>> >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
> knows
>> >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
> the
>> >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>> >>> would
>> >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>> >>>
>> >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
> a
>> >>> sweet spot.
>> >>>
>> >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
> Lew.
>> >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
> number?
>> >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>> >>>
>> >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>> >>> and
> so
>> >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>> >>> some
>> >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
> beyond
>> >>> typing Braille, of course.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>> >>> Duran.
>> >>>
>> >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
> writer,"
>> >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>> >>> software
>> >>>
>> >>> works.
>> >>>
>> >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
> Originally
>> >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>> >>> code
>> >>> with
>> >>>
>> >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>> >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>> >>> their
>> >>>
>> >>> fingertips.
>> >>>
>> >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>> >>> yields
>> >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
> These
>> >>> 63
>> >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>> >>> digits,
>> >>> with
>> >>>
>> >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> >>>
>> >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>> >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
> grew
>> >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> >>>
>> >>> CHALLENGE
>> >>>
>> >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>> >>> eight-key
>> >>>
>> >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>> >>> delete
>> >>>
>> >>> key.
>> >>>
>> >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>> >>> enough,
>> >>>
>> >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
> person
>> >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
> and
>> >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>> >>> must
>> >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>> >>> touches
>> >>> eight
>> >>>
>> >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
> fingers.
>> >>> If
>> >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>> >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
> was
>> >>> fun to see."
>> >>>
>> >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>> >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>> >>> customizable,"
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
> or
>> >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
> to
>> >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>> >>> opposed
>> >>>
>> >>> as if playing a clarinet."
>> >>>
>> >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
> Farhat,
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>> >>> director
>> >>>
>> >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>> >>>
>> >>> SHOWING OFF
>> >>>
>> >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>> >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>> >>> Then
>> >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>> >>> the
>> >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
> and
>> >>> followed with the chemical equation for
>> >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>> >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> >>>
>> >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
> seeing
>> >>> a
>> >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>> >>> awesome,"
>> >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> >>>
>> >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>> >>> address,
>> >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>> >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>> >>> portable
>> >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
> before.
>> >>>
>> >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>> >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>> >>> students
>> >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
> cooperative
>> >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> >>>
>> >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
> engineering
>> >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
> the
>> >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>> >>> Laboratory.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>> >>> points
>> >>>
>> >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>> >>> smart
>> >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
> students
>> >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>> >>> year
> it
>> >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>> >>> School
>> >>>
>> >>> of Engineering.
>> >>>
>> >>> Video
>> >>>
>> >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>> >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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-- 
Kaiti


From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 16:46:59 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:46:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>

Hi Justin, 
During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a friend who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any assignments that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to go. I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science courses and I'm sure you will be fine. 

Best of luck

Bridget
 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All!
> 
> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
> 
> Justin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:49:16 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:49:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] David Pillischer wasRE: Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <auto-000091980891@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638F05@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000091980891@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZTR6rn6_N8=mkDEPFOpnthFv3neMxAT2yOXi_KxYJrNw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

What would be really impressive to me would be an app which could
toggle from an accessible touch-screen braille keyboard and qwerty
keyboard.  Hook that up with a braille display on an IPad and you'd be
set.  :)

On 1/5/13, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Sighted electronics is gone, he has a new
> company.  The info is at work though, so will have to wait until Monday.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:25 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>Goodness!
>>I can't believe I misspelled David's name again!
>>It's David Pillischer, and he used to run Sighted Electronics.
>>What happened to him?
>>I couldn't find his number or E-mail online, anymore.
>>His Braille writer that I mentioned in a
>>previous post is the sollution to the problem here.
>>Thanks, Joshua
>>________________________________________
>>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>behalf of Kirt [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:17 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>
>>Brandon,
>>I'll wait to see how this actually pans out.
>>Incidentally, I have done several time test
>>comparing my speed riding the same text on a
>>braille keyboard and on a regular keyboard. It
>>turns out I am consistently faster with the
>>QWERTY keyboard… And I know I am definitely i
>>QWERTY keyboard… And I know my braille typing
>>speed is well above average. I'm curious to see
>>if anyone else has done something similar, and, if so, what their results
>> were?
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Brandon Keith
>>Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Below is an article I was sent about a new
>> app. I am not a fan of the way the creator
>> views blind people, but I do think having a
>> Braille Writer on the tablet would be very
>> nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille than in print LOL...
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >
>> >
>> > STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> > Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> »
>> News &
>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news>
>> » Stanford summer course yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> > <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> > In a two-month summer course on
>> high-performance computing, promising
>> undergrads compete to create innovative
>> applications. This summer's winner developed a
>> touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>> revolutionize how the blind negotiate an unseen
>> world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times more.
>> > Andrew Myers
>> >
>> > Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and
>> sandstone of Stanford, the Army
>> High-Performance Computing Research Center
>> (AHPCRC) invites a select group of
>> undergraduates from across the country gather
>> for a two-month immersion into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> >
>> > Some of the undergraduates are gathered into
>> teams. Some work alone. All are assigned
>> mentors and tasked with a challenge. They
>> compete, American Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> >
>> > The competition is made possible in part by a
>> collaboration between the U.S. Army and several
>> university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>> >
>> > Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a
>> student both lucky and good. He is now in his
>> senior year at New Mexico State University.
>> Last June, he came to Stanford at the
>> suggestion of one of his professors. His
>> mentors were Adrian Lew, an assistant professor
>> of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford
>> studying computational mathematics.
>> >
>> > "Originally, our assignment was to create a
>> character-recognition application that would
>> use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into
>> readable text," said Duran. "It was a cool
>> challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> >
>> > BIGGER FISH
>> >
>> > Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew
>> and Dharmaraja began to talk to the Stanford
>> Office of Accessible
>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>,
>> people whose profession is helping blind and
>> visually impaired students negotiate the world
>> of higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> >
>> > While a Braille character reader would be
>> helpful to the blind, Lew and Dharmaraja
>> learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>> >
>> > "How does a blind person orient a printed
>> page so that the computer knows which side is
>> up? How does a blind person ensure proper
>> lighting of the paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the
>> technology, while definitely helpful, would be
>> limited in day-to-day application."
>> >
>> > "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> >
>> > So, the three began to ask questions. That is
>> when they stumbled upon a sweet spot.
>> >
>> > "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> >
>> > "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how
>> would you take notes?" said Lew. "What if you
>> were on the street and needed to copy down a
>> phone number? These are real challenges the blind grapple with every
>> day."
>> >
>> > There are devices that help the blind write
>> Braille, to send email and so forth, but they
>> are essentially specialized laptops that cost,
>> in some cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device
>> of limited functionality, beyond typing Braille, of course.
>> >
>> > "Your standard tablet has more capability at
>> a tenth the price," said Duran.
>> >
>> > "So, we put two and two together. We
>> developed a tablet Braille writer," said
>> Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> >
>> >
>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>
>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford,
>> demonstrates how the software works.
>> >
>> > First, however, the student-mentor team had
>> to learn Braille. Originally developed for the
>> French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>> code with each character made up of variations
>> of six dots - or bumps, really - arranged in a
>> 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their fingertips.
>> >
>> > As any computational mathematician will tell
>> you, such a matrix yields two-to-the-sixth
>> minus one variations, or 63 possible
>> characters. These 63 characters are enough for
>> a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
>> with several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> >
>> > Over the years, however, those 63 characters
>> got quickly gobbled up - through the addition
>> of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>> grew and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> >
>> > CHALLENGE
>> >
>> > A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop
>> with no monitor and an eight-key keyboard - six
>> to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete key.
>> >
>> > Duplicating the Braille keypad on a
>> touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, but
>> there was at least one significant challenge:
>> How does a blind person find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass
>> panel?
>> >
>> > Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options
>> before arriving at a clever and simple
>> solution. They did not create virtual keys that
>> the fingertips must find; they made keys that
>> find the fingertips. The user simply touches
>> eight fingertips to the glass, and the keys
>> orient themselves to the fingers. If the user
>> becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as
>> lifting all eight fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> >
>> > "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so
>> simple, so beautiful. It was fun to see."
>> >
>> > Beyond the price difference, touchscreens
>> offer at least one other significant advantage
>> over standard Braille writers: "They're
>> customizable," Dharmaraja noted. "They can
>> accommodate users whose fingers are small or
>> large, those who type with fingers close
>> together or far apart, even to allow a user to
>> type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>> hands opposed as if playing a clarinet."
>> >
>> > "No standard Braille writer can do this,"
>> said Professor Charbel Farhat, the chair of the
>> Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>> executive director of the summer program. "This
>> is a real step forward for the blind."
>> >
>> > SHOWING OFF
>> >
>> > In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and
>> readied himself before the touchscreen. He
>> typed out an email address and a simple subject
>> line. Then he typed one of the best-known
>> mathematical formulas in the world, the Burgers
>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>> and followed with the chemical equation for
>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis>
>> - complex stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> >
>> > For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the
>> greatest joy was in seeing a blind person using
>> his creation for the first time. "That was so
>> awesome," he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> >
>> > In the immediate future, there are technical
>> and legal hurdles to address, but someday,
>> perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired
>> may find themselves with a more cost-effective
>> Braille writer that is both portable and
>> blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>> >
>> > "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach,
>> which not only trains undergraduate students in
>> computational sciences but also exposes
>> students to real-world research applications,"
>> said Raju Namburu, the cooperative agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> >
>> > The center addresses the Army's most
>> difficult scientific and engineering challenges
>> using high-performance computing. Stanford
>> University is the AHPCRC lead organization with
>> oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>> >
>> > As for his summer courses, Farhat is
>> optimistic. "Let's remember," he points out,
>> "This was a two-month summer project that
>> evolved because a few smart people asked some
>> good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>> students accomplish in these courses, but this
>> was something special. Each year it seems to get better and more
>> impressive."
>> >
>> > Andrew Myers is associate director of
>> communications for the Stanford School of Engineering.
>> >
>> > Video
>> >
>> > Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen
>> Braille
>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> >
>> > Thursday, October 6, 2011
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:48:48 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:48:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>

The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>
> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>
> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my
>> texts and have it come out in English.
>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>> ;d
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using
>> it?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>
>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>> me?
>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>> it are without much basis.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>> Already,
>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>> already exists.
>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
>> way
>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>> Writer
>> on
>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>
>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
>>>>>> course
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>>>>>> winner
>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
>> how
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>>>>>> times
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more.
>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>>>>>> Army
>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>>>>>> group
>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
>> All
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
>> the
>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
>> He
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
>> came
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>> Duran.
>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>
>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>>>>>> talk
>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>> profession
>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
>> and
>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
>> knows
>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
>> the
>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
>> a
>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
>> Lew.
>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>> number?
>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>>>>>> and
>> so
>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>> beyond
>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>> writer,"
>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>>>>> software
>>>>>>
>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>> Originally
>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>> yields
>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>> These
>>>>>> 63
>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>> grew
>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>
>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>
>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>> person
>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
>> and
>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>> touches
>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>> fingers.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
>> was
>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
>> or
>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
>> to
>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>> Farhat,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>>>>> director
>>>>>>
>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>>>>>> Then
>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>> and
>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>> seeing
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>> address,
>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>> portable
>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>> before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>> cooperative
>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>> engineering
>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
>> the
>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>>>>>> points
>>>>>>
>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>>>>>> smart
>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>> students
>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>> year
>> it
>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>>>>>> School
>>>>>>
>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:52:32 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:52:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] David Pillischer wasRE: Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZTR6rn6_N8=mkDEPFOpnthFv3neMxAT2yOXi_KxYJrNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C638F05@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000091980891@mailfront4.g2host.com>
	<CAFja7FZTR6rn6_N8=mkDEPFOpnthFv3neMxAT2yOXi_KxYJrNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-9079443815577819128@unknownmsgid>

You could kind of do that with this type in braille app. If you don't
want to type using the braille keyboard, you could just at Lowe's at
the app and type using the on-screen keyboard. That's at least what
I'm understanding. This would make it kind of like Fleksy!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What would be really impressive to me would be an app which could
> toggle from an accessible touch-screen braille keyboard and qwerty
> keyboard.  Hook that up with a braille display on an IPad and you'd be
> set.  :)
>
> On 1/5/13, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> Sighted electronics is gone, he has a new
>> company.  The info is at work though, so will have to wait until Monday.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 10:25 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>> Goodness!
>>> I can't believe I misspelled David's name again!
>>> It's David Pillischer, and he used to run Sighted Electronics.
>>> What happened to him?
>>> I couldn't find his number or E-mail online, anymore.
>>> His Braille writer that I mentioned in a
>>> previous post is the sollution to the problem here.
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>> behalf of Kirt [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:17 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>
>>> Brandon,
>>> I'll wait to see how this actually pans out.
>>> Incidentally, I have done several time test
>>> comparing my speed riding the same text on a
>>> braille keyboard and on a regular keyboard. It
>>> turns out I am consistently faster with the
>>> QWERTY keyboard… And I know I am definitely i
>>> QWERTY keyboard… And I know my braille typing
>>> speed is well above average. I'm curious to see
>>> if anyone else has done something similar, and, if so, what their results
>>> were?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Brandon Keith
>>> Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new
>>> app. I am not a fan of the way the creator
>>> views blind people, but I do think having a
>>> Braille Writer on the tablet would be very
>>> nice. It is so much faster to type texts in Braille than in print LOL...
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> »
>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> »
>>> News &
>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news>
>>> » Stanford summer course yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>> In a two-month summer course on
>>> high-performance computing, promising
>>> undergrads compete to create innovative
>>> applications. This summer's winner developed a
>>> touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>> revolutionize how the blind negotiate an unseen
>>> world by replacing devices costing up to 10 times more.
>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>
>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and
>>> sandstone of Stanford, the Army
>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center
>>> (AHPCRC) invites a select group of
>>> undergraduates from across the country gather
>>> for a two-month immersion into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into
>>> teams. Some work alone. All are assigned
>>> mentors and tasked with a challenge. They
>>> compete, American Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>
>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a
>>> collaboration between the U.S. Army and several
>>> university and industry partners that makes up the AHPCRC.
>>>>
>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a
>>> student both lucky and good. He is now in his
>>> senior year at New Mexico State University.
>>> Last June, he came to Stanford at the
>>> suggestion of one of his professors. His
>>> mentors were Adrian Lew, an assistant professor
>>> of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford
>>> studying computational mathematics.
>>>>
>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a
>>> character-recognition application that would
>>> use the camera on a mobile device — a phone or
>>> tablet — to transform pages of Braille into
>>> readable text," said Duran. "It was a cool
>>> challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>
>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>
>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew
>>> and Dharmaraja began to talk to the Stanford
>>> Office of Accessible
>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>,
>>> people whose profession is helping blind and
>>> visually impaired students negotiate the world
>>> of higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>>>>
>>>> While a Braille character reader would be
>>> helpful to the blind, Lew and Dharmaraja
>>> learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>>>>
>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed
>>> page so that the computer knows which side is
>>> up? How does a blind person ensure proper
>>> lighting of the paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the
>>> technology, while definitely helpful, would be
>>> limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>
>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>
>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is
>>> when they stumbled upon a sweet spot.
>>>>
>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>
>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how
>>> would you take notes?" said Lew. "What if you
>>> were on the street and needed to copy down a
>>> phone number? These are real challenges the blind grapple with every
>>> day."
>>>>
>>>> There are devices that help the blind write
>>> Braille, to send email and so forth, but they
>>> are essentially specialized laptops that cost,
>>> in some cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device
>>> of limited functionality, beyond typing Braille, of course.
>>>>
>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at
>>> a tenth the price," said Duran.
>>>>
>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We
>>> developed a tablet Braille writer," said
>>> Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>
>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford,
>>> demonstrates how the software works.
>>>>
>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had
>>> to learn Braille. Originally developed for the
>>> French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>> code with each character made up of variations
>>> of six dots - or bumps, really - arranged in a
>>> 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with their fingertips.
>>>>
>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell
>>> you, such a matrix yields two-to-the-sixth
>>> minus one variations, or 63 possible
>>> characters. These 63 characters are enough for
>>> a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
>>> with several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>
>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters
>>> got quickly gobbled up - through the addition
>>> of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>>> grew and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>
>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>
>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop
>>> with no monitor and an eight-key keyboard - six
>>> to create the character, plus a carriage return and a delete key.
>>>>
>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a
>>> touch-based tablet seemed simple enough, but
>>> there was at least one significant challenge:
>>> How does a blind person find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass
>>> panel?
>>>>
>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options
>>> before arriving at a clever and simple
>>> solution. They did not create virtual keys that
>>> the fingertips must find; they made keys that
>>> find the fingertips. The user simply touches
>>> eight fingertips to the glass, and the keys
>>> orient themselves to the fingers. If the user
>>> becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as
>>> lifting all eight fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>
>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so
>>> simple, so beautiful. It was fun to see."
>>>>
>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens
>>> offer at least one other significant advantage
>>> over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>> customizable," Dharmaraja noted. "They can
>>> accommodate users whose fingers are small or
>>> large, those who type with fingers close
>>> together or far apart, even to allow a user to
>>> type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>> hands opposed as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>
>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this,"
>>> said Professor Charbel Farhat, the chair of the
>>> Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>>> executive director of the summer program. "This
>>> is a real step forward for the blind."
>>>>
>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>
>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and
>>> readied himself before the touchscreen. He
>>> typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>> line. Then he typed one of the best-known
>>> mathematical formulas in the world, the Burgers
>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>> and followed with the chemical equation for
>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis>
>>> - complex stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>
>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the
>>> greatest joy was in seeing a blind person using
>>> his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>> awesome," he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>
>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical
>>> and legal hurdles to address, but someday,
>>> perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired
>>> may find themselves with a more cost-effective
>>> Braille writer that is both portable and
>>> blessed with greater functionality than any device that went before.
>>>>
>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach,
>>> which not only trains undergraduate students in
>>> computational sciences but also exposes
>>> students to real-world research applications,"
>>> said Raju Namburu, the cooperative agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>
>>>> The center addresses the Army's most
>>> difficult scientific and engineering challenges
>>> using high-performance computing. Stanford
>>> University is the AHPCRC lead organization with
>>> oversight from the Army Research Laboratory.
>>>>
>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is
>>> optimistic. "Let's remember," he points out,
>>> "This was a two-month summer project that
>>> evolved because a few smart people asked some
>>> good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>> students accomplish in these courses, but this
>>> was something special. Each year it seems to get better and more
>>> impressive."
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of
>>> communications for the Stanford School of Engineering.
>>>>
>>>> Video
>>>>
>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen
>>> Braille
>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>
>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:53:34 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:53:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>

Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can get a feel for what it is like

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>> 
>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>> 
>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my
>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>> ;d
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using
>>> it?
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>> 
>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>>> me?
>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>> Already,
>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
>>> way
>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>> Writer
>>> on
>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
>>> how
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
>>> All
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
>>> the
>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
>>> He
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
>>> came
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>> Duran.
>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
>>> and
>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
>>> knows
>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
>>> the
>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
>>> a
>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
>>> Lew.
>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>> number?
>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>>>>>>> and
>>> so
>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>> beyond
>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>> writer,"
>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>> Originally
>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>> These
>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>>> grew
>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>>> person
>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
>>> and
>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>> fingers.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
>>> was
>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
>>> or
>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
>>> to
>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>> and
>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>> seeing
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>> before.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>> cooperative
>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>> engineering
>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
>>> the
>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>> students
>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>> year
>>> it
>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:58:22 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:58:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bridget,

I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
disability services people want me to learn math player and do
everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?

Thanks,


On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a friend
> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any assignments
> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to go.
> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>
> Best of luck
>
> Bridget
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:57:44 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:57:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
	<014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
	<4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>
	<EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>
	<45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid>

They put a new connector in with the iPhone five, so if you have an
old Apple connector and get an iPhone five, you will need to change
connectors.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:32 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you could find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people often sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you know first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for online options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, look around for a used one.
>
> The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is a lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you buy the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have to use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one are expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging issues with VoiceOver on the 5.
>
>
> Cindy Bennett
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length of time. That is why I am asking about the differences in the features or which phone is better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
>> Thanks,
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.
>>>
>>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a contract for $200.
>>>
>>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.
>>>
>>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing contracts as well.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marc,
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>>>
>>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
>>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
>>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
>>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
>>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
>>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
>>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
>>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
>>>> visual in nature.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>
>>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
>>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
>>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
>>>> more than the 4S.
>>>>
>>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
>>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
>>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
>>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
>>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
>>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
>>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
>>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>>>
>>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
>>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
>>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>>>
>>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
>>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
>>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
>>>> than the 4S.
>>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the
>>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other
>>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the
>>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:59:47 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:59:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>

Gotcha,

Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.

On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can get a
> feel for what it is like
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>
>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>
>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my
>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>> ;d
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>> idea
>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>> speed
>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of
>>>> you
>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>> using
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>> Andrews
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>> As I
>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>> tablet
>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>> Braille
>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>>>> me?
>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>> Already,
>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>> braille
>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>> way
>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
>>>> how
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to
>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>> All
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>> good.
>>>> He
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>> he
>>>> came
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
>>>> knows
>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>> upon
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>> said
>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>> number?
>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>>>>>>>> and
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>> These
>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>> total
>>>> grew
>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>>>> person
>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>> clever
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful.
>>>>>>>> It
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>> small
>>>> or
>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>> even
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember,"
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>> students
>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>> year
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Kaiti


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 17:06:40 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:06:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
	<014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
	<4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>
	<EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>
	<45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>
	<-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <A0992EB0-0994-49D1-8BC9-E8F5C20C4AEC@gmail.com>

hello there,

I have had the iPhone 4s for a few months before migrating to the five, and I can agree with katherine here, voice over indeed is faster on the five.
It also comes down to internet, as she mentioned.
My argument for this kind of situation though is that if you buy the five,  you will be able to use apps and so on longer.
remember when you tried running apps on  mountain lion and they were not compatible? if they do something like this on whatever new IOS is coming  out soon, things might be slower on the 4s side of things.
This is just speculating, as i have not compared processors on both  phones as of yet as I was on vacation, but it is something to think about nonetheless.

Mauricio
On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:57 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> They put a new connector in with the iPhone five, so if you have an
> old Apple connector and get an iPhone five, you will need to change
> connectors.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:32 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you could find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people often sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you know first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for online options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, look around for a used one.
>> 
>> The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is a lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you buy the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have to use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one are expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging issues with VoiceOver on the 5.
>> 
>> 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> 
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length of time. That is why I am asking about the differences in the features or which phone is better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>> 
>>>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.
>>>> 
>>>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a contract for $200.
>>>> 
>>>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.
>>>> 
>>>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing contracts as well.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> Marc
>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marc,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
>>>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
>>>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
>>>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
>>>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
>>>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
>>>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
>>>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
>>>>> visual in nature.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
>>>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
>>>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
>>>>> more than the 4S.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
>>>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
>>>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
>>>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
>>>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
>>>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
>>>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
>>>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>>>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
>>>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
>>>>> phone.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
>>>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
>>>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
>>>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marc
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
>>>>> than the 4S.
>>>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the
>>>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other
>>>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the
>>>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> om
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 17:13:11 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:13:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>

In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:

http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/

On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gotcha,
>
> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>
> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can get
>> a
>> feel for what it is like
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>> my
>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>> ;d
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>> idea
>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>> speed
>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of
>>>>> you
>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>> using
>>>>> it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>> Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>> As I
>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>> tablet
>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>> Braille
>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>> run
>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>>>>> me?
>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to
>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful.
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember,"
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>> om
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>


-- 
Kaiti


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 17:15:09 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:15:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90721F17-2CE9-4959-857D-1363B80368F3@gmail.com>

hello there,

Please keep in mind I am not sure how your disability office will interpret this answer, so you must be a little careful when presenting it to them.
About math player: Michigan state university has adopted them pretty much as default to work with things such as webwork, which you will probably end up using for homework.
I can tell you that if your jaws is configured correctly it will be just fine to read.
there's no need to worry there. the program doesn't require you to do anything. it is just an extension for explorer, once installed, boom, you're ready to go.
what this means is, there is no such a thing as learning math player.
now about the calculator, and here is where we're going to have a little convincing to do on your end:
When I was graduating from the american school of sao paulo, which was for years the best american school even if you counted half of the schools in the US, I had an assistant for math and science classes, who staked with me as well as the professors and students, and who's only job was to adapt materials for me and make sure i understood what was going on.
Now, I am not suggesting you ask this to your university, however, here is our interpretation as far as calculators:
While some conservative people might think it is useful for you to know that say, the plus button is above the minus button and that you must press that after the select mode button to make the calculator do this and this, we worked on a concept basis: If i knew exactly what the calculator needed tod o, for example, calculate the matrix of these numbers, adding them in this order) and so on, she did not require me to learn the buttons themselves. it saved me time, and in the end of the day she was not doing any work for me.
do you think your office would agree with this kind of approach?

mauricio
On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Bridget,
> 
> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a friend
>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any assignments
>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to go.
>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>> 
>> Best of luck
>> 
>> Bridget
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All!
>>> 
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>> 
>>> Justin
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 17:24:51 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:24:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCwQoGDRHA3fHNNuhoA5XpnQx-RdDdaqhEqjf0n9PKBMA@mail.gmail.com>

If you have a Braille display with Braille keyboard, such as
RefreshaBraille, you can already type texts in contracted Braille and
have them translated on the iPhone.
As far as I know most, if not all, portable Braille displays come with
Braille keyboard.
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>
> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>
> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gotcha,
>>
>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can
>>> get
>>> a
>>> feel for what it is like
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>> speed
>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>>> As I
>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and
>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for
>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the
>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of
>>>>>>>>> print.
>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a
>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja
>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send
>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so
>>>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>>>>>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the
>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's
>>>>>>>>>> remember,"
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>> om
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 17:39:55 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:39:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCwQoGDRHA3fHNNuhoA5XpnQx-RdDdaqhEqjf0n9PKBMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCwQoGDRHA3fHNNuhoA5XpnQx-RdDdaqhEqjf0n9PKBMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A6E59BA-BC24-4584-9D6A-F951882549B6@gmail.com>

Right, but that's more stuff to carry around… The point in all these apps is that you have to carry around less, possibly only one device.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:24 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> If you have a Braille display with Braille keyboard, such as
> RefreshaBraille, you can already type texts in contracted Braille and
> have them translated on the iPhone.
> As far as I know most, if not all, portable Braille displays come with
> Braille keyboard.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
>> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
>> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>> 
>> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Gotcha,
>>> 
>>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>>> 
>>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can
>>>> get
>>>> a
>>>> feel for what it is like
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>>>> As I
>>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and
>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for
>>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the
>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of
>>>>>>>>>> print.
>>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a
>>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja
>>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send
>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so
>>>>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>>>>>>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the
>>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's
>>>>>>>>>>> remember,"
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 17:42:04 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:42:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>

Hi,

i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is not practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate what you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however, I do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are playing assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able o find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and they help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers of college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor ideas come through. 

Bridget   

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Bridget,
> 
> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a friend
>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any assignments
>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to go.
>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>> 
>> Best of luck
>> 
>> Bridget
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All!
>>> 
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>> 
>>> Justin
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:10:06 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:10:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti,
First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
their boundaries.
Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
with the problems yourself.
I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
learn best.
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is not
> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate what
> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however, I
> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are playing
> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able o
> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and they
> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers of
> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
> ideas come through.
>
> Bridget
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bridget,
>>
>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>> friend
>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>> assignments
>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>> best
>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>> the
>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>> go.
>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:12:41 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:12:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <8A6E59BA-BC24-4584-9D6A-F951882549B6@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCwQoGDRHA3fHNNuhoA5XpnQx-RdDdaqhEqjf0n9PKBMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6E59BA-BC24-4584-9D6A-F951882549B6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <918DD458-24EB-414F-96CE-02C743214C87@gmail.com>

Arielle,
The other thing to consider, which I'm sure you probably already thought of, is the massive price tag of even a portable braille display when compared to a $10 or $20 app. Of course, I would imagine that most of us brail users would prefer a braille display any day, because of the braille input and output. However, when and where that is not an option, I'm all for other solutions being available.
Just my thoughts,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right, but that's more stuff to carry around… The point in all these apps is that you have to carry around less, possibly only one device.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:24 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> If you have a Braille display with Braille keyboard, such as
>> RefreshaBraille, you can already type texts in contracted Braille and
>> have them translated on the iPhone.
>> As far as I know most, if not all, portable Braille displays come with
>> Braille keyboard.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
>>> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
>>> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>>> 
>>> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>>> 
>>> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Gotcha,
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can
>>>>> get
>>>>> a
>>>>> feel for what it is like
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>>>>> As I
>>>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and
>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for
>>>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of
>>>>>>>>>>> print.
>>>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a
>>>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja
>>>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send
>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>>>>>>>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>> remember,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan  6 18:16:00 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 12:16:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000092667999@mailfront3.g2host.com>

I haven't used it -- just read about it.  I am not sure I understand 
your question about brailling C, you would just press where your 
fingers were for dots 1 and 4.

Dave

At 09:57 PM 1/5/2013, you wrote:
>Dave,
>
>         My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
>indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
>once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
>actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using it?
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
>It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
>understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
>like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
>input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>
>Dave
>
>At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
> >Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
> >on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
> >If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
> >Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
> >Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
> >would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
> >me?
> >In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
> >recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
> >it are without much basis.
> >Arielle
> >
> >On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>Already,
> > > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
> > > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
> > iPad. I see a decent amount of
> > > value and that, I think.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
> > >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
> > >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
> > >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
> > >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
> > >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
> > >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
> > >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
> > >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
> > >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
> > >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
> > >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
> > >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
> > >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
> > >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
> > >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
> > >> already exists.
> > >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
> > >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
> > >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
> > >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
> > >> Arielle
> > >>
> > >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
>way
> > >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer
>on
> > >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
> > >>> Braille
> > >>>
> > >>> than in print LOL...
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
> > >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
> > >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
> > >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
> > >>> course
> > >>>
> > >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
> > >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
> > >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
> > >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
> > >>> winner
> > >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
>how
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
> > >>> times
> > >>>
> > >>> more.
> > >>> Andrew Myers
> > >>>
> > >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
> > >>> Army
> > >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
> > >>> group
> > >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
> > >>> immersion
> > >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
> > >>>
> > >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
>All
> > >>> are
> > >>>
> > >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
> > >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
> > >>>
> > >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
>the
> > >>> U.S.
> > >>>
> > >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
> > >>> AHPCRC.
> > >>>
> > >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
>He
> > >>> is
> > >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
>came
> > >>> to
> > >>>
> > >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
> > >>> Adrian
> > >>>
> > >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
> > >>> Dharmaraja,
> > >>>
> > >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
> > >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
> > >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>Duran.
> > >>> "It
> > >>>
> > >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
> > >>>
> > >>> BIGGER FISH
> > >>>
> > >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
> > >>> talk
> > >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
> > >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
> > >>> profession
> > >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
> > >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
> > >>>
> > >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
>and
> > >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
> > >>>
> > >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
>knows
> > >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
>the
> > >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
> > >>> would
> > >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
> > >>>
> > >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
>a
> > >>> sweet spot.
> > >>>
> > >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
>Lew.
> > >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>number?
> > >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
> > >>>
> > >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and
>so
> > >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
> > >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>beyond
> > >>> typing Braille, of course.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
> > >>> Duran.
> > >>>
> > >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>writer,"
> > >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
>[http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>%20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
> > >>>
> > >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
> > >>> software
> > >>>
> > >>> works.
> > >>>
> > >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>Originally
> > >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
> > >>> with
> > >>>
> > >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
> > >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
> > >>> their
> > >>>
> > >>> fingertips.
> > >>>
> > >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
> > >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>These
> > >>> 63
> > >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
> > >>> with
> > >>>
> > >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
> > >>>
> > >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
> > >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>grew
> > >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
> > >>>
> > >>> CHALLENGE
> > >>>
> > >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
> > >>> eight-key
> > >>>
> > >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
> > >>> delete
> > >>>
> > >>> key.
> > >>>
> > >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
> > >>> enough,
> > >>>
> > >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>person
> > >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
> > >>>
> > >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
>and
> > >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
> > >>> must
> > >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
> > >>> eight
> > >>>
> > >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>fingers.
> > >>> If
> > >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
> > >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
>was
> > >>> fun to see."
> > >>>
> > >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
> > >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
> > >>> customizable,"
> > >>>
> > >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
>or
> > >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
>to
> > >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
> > >>> opposed
> > >>>
> > >>> as if playing a clarinet."
> > >>>
> > >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>Farhat,
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
> > >>> director
> > >>>
> > >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
> > >>>
> > >>> SHOWING OFF
> > >>>
> > >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
> > >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
> > >>> Then
> > >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
> > >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>and
> > >>> followed with the chemical equation for
> > >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
> > >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
> > >>>
> > >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>seeing
> > >>> a
> > >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
> > >>> awesome,"
> > >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
> > >>>
> > >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
> > >>> address,
> > >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
> > >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
> > >>> portable
> > >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>before.
> > >>>
> > >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
> > >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
> > >>> students
> > >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>cooperative
> > >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
> > >>>
> > >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>engineering
> > >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
>the
> > >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
> > >>> Laboratory.
> > >>>
> > >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
> > >>> points
> > >>>
> > >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
> > >>> smart
> > >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>students
> > >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year
>it
> > >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
> > >>>
> > >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
> > >>> School
> > >>>
> > >>> of Engineering.
> > >>>
> > >>> Video
> > >>>
> > >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
> > >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:21:42 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:21:42 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
In-Reply-To: <A0992EB0-0994-49D1-8BC9-E8F5C20C4AEC@gmail.com>
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com>
	<014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com>
	<4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com>
	<EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21>
	<45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>
	<-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid>
	<A0992EB0-0994-49D1-8BC9-E8F5C20C4AEC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE49015D-7B27-49AB-87C9-94C9E840E909@gmail.com>

Chris,
Of course you are right about the new Apple dock connector… But, I think, since new chargers come with each new phone, that is kind of irrelevant… Unless you want an extra charger for some reason, which I suppose could be valid. The only reason I didn't upgrade to the iPhone five was that I was already locked into a contract with the four ass, and it wasn't time for me to get a contract renewal and upgrade yet. Besides, if my iPhone 4S can hold out for a little more than six months, I will be able to get a phone that is even more future proof then the five. :-)

So, to the original poster, I guess it's a question of how long you want to be able to use your phone. If you want something which will be more current in a couple of years, get the five. The odds are that it will be supportive longer by Apple, and be more up to date with the future improvement in iOS than the iPhone for S would be. However, if you're more concerned about your budget, the for S works fine, and will probably satisfy you for a couple years or so if you don't need all the latest bells and whistles.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello there,
> 
> I have had the iPhone 4s for a few months before migrating to the five, and I can agree with katherine here, voice over indeed is faster on the five.
> It also comes down to internet, as she mentioned.
> My argument for this kind of situation though is that if you buy the five,  you will be able to use apps and so on longer.
> remember when you tried running apps on  mountain lion and they were not compatible? if they do something like this on whatever new IOS is coming  out soon, things might be slower on the 4s side of things.
> This is just speculating, as i have not compared processors on both  phones as of yet as I was on vacation, but it is something to think about nonetheless.
> 
> Mauricio
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:57 AM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> They put a new connector in with the iPhone five, so if you have an
>> old Apple connector and get an iPhone five, you will need to change
>> connectors.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:32 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you could find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people often sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you know first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for online options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, look around for a used one.
>>> 
>>> The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is a lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you buy the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have to use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one are expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging issues with VoiceOver on the 5.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cindy Bennett
>>> 
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length of time. That is why I am asking about the differences in the features or which phone is better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Misty
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant financial hardship.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without a contract for $200.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale value.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes renewing contracts as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marc
>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>>>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>>>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably correct if
>>>>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This would
>>>>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. I
>>>>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so it was
>>>>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or bought a
>>>>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade fee
>>>>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in total. I
>>>>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 5 are
>>>>>> visual in nature.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the phone, the
>>>>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. However,
>>>>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof the 5
>>>>>> more than the 4S.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a contract,
>>>>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up front
>>>>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly phone
>>>>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies make
>>>>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 over 2
>>>>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in this
>>>>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, unless of
>>>>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>>>>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>>>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that are
>>>>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>>>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for your
>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for the 5,
>>>>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for voiceover/accessibility
>>>>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can afford it
>>>>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>>>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 more
>>>>>> than the 4S.
>>>>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and the
>>>>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of other
>>>>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with the
>>>>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover user?
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail
>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40g
>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>> om
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:23:53 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:23:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com><D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com><014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com><4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com><EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21><45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com>
	<-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <2A30F04F72FF4D139F9E98FE927DAAD4@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I don't have any old Apple chargers or connectors, since this will be my 
first I device, although it is crazy that they changed the connector after 
so many versions using the same one.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?


> They put a new connector in with the iPhone five, so if you have an
> old Apple connector and get an iPhone five, you will need to change
> connectors.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:32 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you could 
>> find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people often 
>> sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you know 
>> first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for online 
>> options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, look 
>> around for a used one.
>>
>> The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone 
>> provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is a 
>> lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you 
>> might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you buy 
>> the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have to 
>> use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one are 
>> expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging issues with 
>> VoiceOver on the 5.
>>
>>
>> Cindy Bennett
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone with 
>>> Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. Cricket 
>>> sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are selling the 
>>> IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I would not be 
>>> obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing the phone, but I 
>>> wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for any specified length 
>>> of time. That is why I am asking about the differences in the features 
>>> or which phone is better, because if I pay $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, 
>>> but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 5 which is $100 more than the 
>>> IPhone 4S.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" 
>>> <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>
>>>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new 
>>>> iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. 
>>>> Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go 
>>>> plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that into 
>>>> the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on a 
>>>> contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a 
>>>> contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus whatever 
>>>> you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The price you pay 
>>>> up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real price is the cost 
>>>> up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If you factor the entire 
>>>> cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go with the 
>>>> cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 up front is a significant 
>>>> financial hardship.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. It 
>>>> would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S without 
>>>> a contract for $200.
>>>>
>>>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer 
>>>> phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale 
>>>> value.
>>>>
>>>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra 
>>>> money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a 
>>>> contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes 
>>>> renewing contracts as well.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>
>>>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes out.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably 
>>>>> correct if
>>>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This 
>>>>> would
>>>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices are. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so 
>>>>> it was
>>>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or 
>>>>> bought a
>>>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's upgrade 
>>>>> fee
>>>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in 
>>>>> total. I
>>>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the iPhone 
>>>>> 5 are
>>>>> visual in nature.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc 
>>>>> Workman
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the 
>>>>> phone, the
>>>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. 
>>>>> However,
>>>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof 
>>>>> the 5
>>>>> more than the 4S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a 
>>>>> contract,
>>>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay up 
>>>>> front
>>>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly 
>>>>> phone
>>>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone companies 
>>>>> make
>>>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is $2000 
>>>>> over 2
>>>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in 
>>>>> this
>>>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, 
>>>>> unless of
>>>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point only
>>>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 that 
>>>>> are
>>>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life for 
>>>>> your
>>>>> phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for 
>>>>> the 5,
>>>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for 
>>>>> voiceover/accessibility
>>>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can 
>>>>> afford it
>>>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says the
>>>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 
>>>>>>> more
>>>>> than the 4S.
>>>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? I
>>>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, some
>>>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of 
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover 
>>>>>>> user?
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:24:38 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:24:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <auto-000092667999@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com>
	<auto-000092667999@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <54381A20-76E5-4061-B4CF-1923635CDDEA@gmail.com>

Brandon,
I don't know if this helps, but I've heard that the app will switch you into landscape mode when you are typing, so you have more room to replicate the braille keyboard on your screen. I imagine that, with just a little bit of practice, you could position your fingers all six braille dots, along with the space key, with relative ease and speed. Man… Siri really screwed that one up, and I'm too lazy to go edited, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:16 AM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> I haven't used it -- just read about it.  I am not sure I understand your question about brailling C, you would just press where your fingers were for dots 1 and 4.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 09:57 PM 1/5/2013, you wrote:
>> Dave,
>> 
>>        My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using it?
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>> 
>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As I
>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>> >Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>> >on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>> >If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>> >Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>> >Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>> >would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>> >me?
>> >In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>> >recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>> >it are without much basis.
>> >Arielle
>> >
>> >On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Hello everyone,
>> > > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>> Already,
>> > > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
>> > > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>> > iPad. I see a decent amount of
>> > > value and that, I think.
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > >
>> > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>> > >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>> > >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>> > >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>> > >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>> > >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>> > >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>> > >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>> > >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>> > >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>> > >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>> > >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>> > >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>> > >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>> > >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>> > >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>> > >> already exists.
>> > >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>> > >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>> > >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>> > >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>> > >> Arielle
>> > >>
>> > >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>> Hello,
>> > >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
>> way
>> > >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille Writer
>> on
>> > >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>> > >>> Braille
>> > >>>
>> > >>> than in print LOL...
>> > >>> Thanks,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> > >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>> > >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>> > >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
>> > >>> course
>> > >>>
>> > >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> > >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> > >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>> > >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>> > >>> winner
>> > >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
>> how
>> > >>> the
>> > >>>
>> > >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>> > >>> times
>> > >>>
>> > >>> more.
>> > >>> Andrew Myers
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>> > >>> Army
>> > >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>> > >>> group
>> > >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>> > >>> immersion
>> > >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
>> All
>> > >>> are
>> > >>>
>> > >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>> > >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
>> the
>> > >>> U.S.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>> > >>> AHPCRC.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
>> He
>> > >>> is
>> > >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
>> came
>> > >>> to
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>> > >>> Adrian
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>> > >>> Dharmaraja,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>> > >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
>> > >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>> Duran.
>> > >>> "It
>> > >>>
>> > >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> BIGGER FISH
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>> > >>> talk
>> > >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>> > >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>> > >>> profession
>> > >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world of
>> > >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
>> and
>> > >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get around.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
>> knows
>> > >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
>> the
>> > >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>> > >>> would
>> > >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
>> a
>> > >>> sweet spot.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
>> Lew.
>> > >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>> number?
>> > >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email and
>> so
>> > >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in some
>> > >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>> beyond
>> > >>> typing Braille, of course.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>> > >>> Duran.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>> writer,"
>> > >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> >
>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>> > >>> software
>> > >>>
>> > >>> works.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>> Originally
>> > >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple code
>> > >>> with
>> > >>>
>> > >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>> > >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>> > >>> their
>> > >>>
>> > >>> fingertips.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix yields
>> > >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>> These
>> > >>> 63
>> > >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical digits,
>> > >>> with
>> > >>>
>> > >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>> > >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
>> grew
>> > >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> CHALLENGE
>> > >>>
>> > >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>> > >>> eight-key
>> > >>>
>> > >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>> > >>> delete
>> > >>>
>> > >>> key.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>> > >>> enough,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>> person
>> > >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
>> and
>> > >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>> > >>> must
>> > >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply touches
>> > >>> eight
>> > >>>
>> > >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>> fingers.
>> > >>> If
>> > >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>> > >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
>> was
>> > >>> fun to see."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>> > >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>> > >>> customizable,"
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
>> or
>> > >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
>> to
>> > >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>> > >>> opposed
>> > >>>
>> > >>> as if playing a clarinet."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>> Farhat,
>> > >>> the
>> > >>>
>> > >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>> > >>> director
>> > >>>
>> > >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> SHOWING OFF
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>> > >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>> > >>> Then
>> > >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world, the
>> > >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>> and
>> > >>> followed with the chemical equation for
>> > >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>> > >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>> seeing
>> > >>> a
>> > >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>> > >>> awesome,"
>> > >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>> > >>> address,
>> > >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>> > >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>> > >>> portable
>> > >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>> before.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>> > >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>> > >>> students
>> > >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>> cooperative
>> > >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>> engineering
>> > >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
>> the
>> > >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>> > >>> Laboratory.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>> > >>> points
>> > >>>
>> > >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>> > >>> smart
>> > >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>> students
>> > >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each year
>> it
>> > >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>> > >>> School
>> > >>>
>> > >>> of Engineering.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Video
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>> > >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:30:58 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:30:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D73CBBC-AE71-4CD0-AA6A-D79AA336DC48@gmail.com>



I could not agree more with what is being said here. A disabilities office always suggests tools and highly encourages mechanisms which they deem best and while I would agree with then on math player myself for being techy, you are the one who should be making this decision as the independent learner you are.
On a separate note: Would you give me information on this braille sense device?
As you may or not know, many things that are available in the United states are either not available or priced in the same level as cars and houses in Brasil, so i happen to have no idea what this device does, and as I am pursuing a psychology degree myself and will most likely need a device for interacting with stats, information on this could greatly benefit me.

On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Kaiti,
> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
> their boundaries.
> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
> with the problems yourself.
> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
> learn best.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is not
>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate what
>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however, I
>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are playing
>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able o
>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and they
>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers of
>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>> ideas come through.
>> 
>> Bridget
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Bridget,
>>> 
>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>> friend
>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>> assignments
>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>> best
>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>> the
>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>>> go.
>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Best of luck
>>>> 
>>>> Bridget
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Justin
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:39:03 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:39:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I have been in contact with my stats professor for several weeks now.
He's married to the director of student learning services and told me
the disabilities office likes to refer their students to him, so he's
used to making accomodations based on individual needs.  He sounds
like a really nice guy, and he's already given me permission to do
things like write text descriptions of graphs rather than sit down
with a cork board, thumb tacks, and tactile graph paper like I had to
do in high school math.  He also said that for him grading on concept
is more important than visual representation, so I think he'd be in
favor of taking the conceptual approach Mauricio suggested even with
the calculator.

I know they mean well, but I think my disabilities office just feels
uncomfortable.  They started working on my math book in September and
had me pick out my professor way before scheduling so they could talk
to him.  A graphing calculator is listed as one of the course
materials and supposedly they have talked with my professor about what
functions he needs the calculators to do, but I'm wondering if he
could tell me manual methods of handling the equasions the
BrailleSense doesn't cover like some of my high school teachers did.
In that case, I could use the BrailleSense as much as possible and
cross the mental math bridges as they come without anyone else's
assistance.

Part of the issue is that they don't have someone on site who can
transcribe braille into print.  I would be most comfortable doing what
I know, even if using a brailler may seem a little stone-age.  I would
also rather have my equasions in braille rather than read to me
through math player because as Arielle said it would give me direct
interaction with the equasion, and honestly I'll probably end up
dictating what the computer says anyway because I've always done math
with hard copy braille.  I'm willing to make consessions like writing
my math on the computer and using math player because there is no
reliable way for someone to accurately produce Nemeth and transcribe
it into print, but some of these other issues are just making me
uncomfortable and worried as they stand.  Hopefully I can get some
more positive answers later this week.

Thanks all,

On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
> their boundaries.
> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
> with the problems yourself.
> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
> learn best.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is
>> not
>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate
>> what
>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however,
>> I
>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are
>> playing
>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able
>> o
>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and
>> they
>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers
>> of
>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>> ideas come through.
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>
>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>> friend
>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers.
>>>> I
>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>> assignments
>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>> best
>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>> the
>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way
>>>> to
>>>> go.
>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck
>>>>
>>>> Bridget
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:39:37 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:39:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2><CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com><090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com><CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com><auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com><014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com><43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2><CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com><8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid><10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com><CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997CE88009BC452D97DA355C64EEB182@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Yes, this app sounds similar to the other one, although I don't understand 
why the students created one when there is another app like it already being 
tested? I agree with others that the other project should not have been 
dropped, although it is nice to be able to type in Braille. For me, I am 
used to the QWERTY keyboard when typing emails, texts, documents, etc. If I 
had difficulty typing on a touch screen, I would just get a bluetooth QWERTY 
keyboard to type on, and the only reason I would switch to a Braille 
keyboard is if I am actually composing Braille in a Braille document. I 
guess the preference depends on the individual, but now I use the computer 
for most things, so I am used to the QWERTY keyboard, although I am fast 
with Braille also. I guess I am just surprised at how sighted people think 
that all of our typing must be in Braille for us to type adequately, and 
they seem to think that it is terribly difficult to type on a QWERTY 
keyboard. I don't understand this, especially when knowing how to use a 
QWERTY keyboard quickly and efficiently is an important skill for employment 
and things of this nature. I can understand that on a touch screen it can be 
more challenging, but after some time getting familiar with it, one usually 
gets faster at it. I am not saying that Braille is not important, but I am 
just saying that being quick and accurate on a QWERTY keyboard is important 
in today's job market also, although Braille is a very useful skill for the 
blind in taking notes, labeling, and producing Braille materials, etc.
Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer


> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>
> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>
> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gotcha,
>>
>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can 
>>> get
>>> a
>>> feel for what it is like
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>> speed
>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>>> As I
>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and 
>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for 
>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the 
>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students 
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of 
>>>>>>>>> print.
>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already 
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a 
>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja 
>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send 
>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and 
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a 
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so 
>>>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one 
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and 
>>>>>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the 
>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's 
>>>>>>>>>> remember,"
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>> om
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:46:57 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:46:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22D126B6-2477-43F0-ACA3-DB4F06C65883@gmail.com>

hello there,

As arielle has stated, communicate with your professor as number one, and use the office as plan b. I suggest you schedule an appointment with  him, and tell him exactly what your e-mail just said to us.
open yourself as much as you can, and if he is confused, then you two, together, may approach the disabilities office.
This way, you are not asking the professor to do your work for you and speak to the office as i have seen some lazy people do in the past, but you are empowering the professor over the office, and making you the center of your education.

Let us know what ever you may need and i am sure someone will be glad to help.

mauricio
On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> I have been in contact with my stats professor for several weeks now.
> He's married to the director of student learning services and told me
> the disabilities office likes to refer their students to him, so he's
> used to making accomodations based on individual needs.  He sounds
> like a really nice guy, and he's already given me permission to do
> things like write text descriptions of graphs rather than sit down
> with a cork board, thumb tacks, and tactile graph paper like I had to
> do in high school math.  He also said that for him grading on concept
> is more important than visual representation, so I think he'd be in
> favor of taking the conceptual approach Mauricio suggested even with
> the calculator.
> 
> I know they mean well, but I think my disabilities office just feels
> uncomfortable.  They started working on my math book in September and
> had me pick out my professor way before scheduling so they could talk
> to him.  A graphing calculator is listed as one of the course
> materials and supposedly they have talked with my professor about what
> functions he needs the calculators to do, but I'm wondering if he
> could tell me manual methods of handling the equasions the
> BrailleSense doesn't cover like some of my high school teachers did.
> In that case, I could use the BrailleSense as much as possible and
> cross the mental math bridges as they come without anyone else's
> assistance.
> 
> Part of the issue is that they don't have someone on site who can
> transcribe braille into print.  I would be most comfortable doing what
> I know, even if using a brailler may seem a little stone-age.  I would
> also rather have my equasions in braille rather than read to me
> through math player because as Arielle said it would give me direct
> interaction with the equasion, and honestly I'll probably end up
> dictating what the computer says anyway because I've always done math
> with hard copy braille.  I'm willing to make consessions like writing
> my math on the computer and using math player because there is no
> reliable way for someone to accurately produce Nemeth and transcribe
> it into print, but some of these other issues are just making me
> uncomfortable and worried as they stand.  Hopefully I can get some
> more positive answers later this week.
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti,
>> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
>> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
>> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
>> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
>> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
>> their boundaries.
>> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
>> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
>> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
>> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
>> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
>> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
>> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
>> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
>> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
>> with the problems yourself.
>> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
>> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
>> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
>> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
>> learn best.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is
>>> not
>>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate
>>> what
>>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however,
>>> I
>>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are
>>> playing
>>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able
>>> o
>>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and
>>> they
>>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers
>>> of
>>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>>> ideas come through.
>>> 
>>> Bridget
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>> 
>>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>>> friend
>>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers.
>>>>> I
>>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>>> assignments
>>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>>> best
>>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>>> the
>>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way
>>>>> to
>>>>> go.
>>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best of luck
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bridget
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 18:51:47 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:51:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <997CE88009BC452D97DA355C64EEB182@acerd37f251f21>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2><CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com><090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com><CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com><auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com><014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com><43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2><CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com><8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid><10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com><CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<997CE88009BC452D97DA355C64EEB182@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <C6B62263-DE23-4EC9-BDF7-92270E261ACB@gmail.com>

hi misty,

a lot of what you say about sighted people comes from us. there are people amongst us who defend braille like it is their son who has been kidnapped by armed forces on an island and needs rescue immediately before being cut into pieces and mailed to all relatives.
I believe braille is important, but the way these people present braille as the blind's god, including when they say that we will only be competitive on employment using braille, damages the already messed up interpretation sighted folks have of us and the integrity of those of us who use other methods and are successful.

mauricio

On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> Yes, this app sounds similar to the other one, although I don't understand why the students created one when there is another app like it already being tested? I agree with others that the other project should not have been dropped, although it is nice to be able to type in Braille. For me, I am used to the QWERTY keyboard when typing emails, texts, documents, etc. If I had difficulty typing on a touch screen, I would just get a bluetooth QWERTY keyboard to type on, and the only reason I would switch to a Braille keyboard is if I am actually composing Braille in a Braille document. I guess the preference depends on the individual, but now I use the computer for most things, so I am used to the QWERTY keyboard, although I am fast with Braille also. I guess I am just surprised at how sighted people think that all of our typing must be in Braille for us to type adequately, and they seem to think that it is terribly difficult to type on a QWERTY keyboard. I don't understand this, especially when knowing how to use a QWERTY keyboard quickly and efficiently is an important skill for employment and things of this nature. I can understand that on a touch screen it can be more challenging, but after some time getting familiar with it, one usually gets faster at it. I am not saying that Braille is not important, but I am just saying that being quick and accurate on a QWERTY keyboard is important in today's job market also, although Braille is a very useful skill for the blind in taking notes, labeling, and producing Braille materials, etc.
> Misty
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
> 
> 
>> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
>> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
>> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>> 
>> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Gotcha,
>>> 
>>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should suffice.
>>> 
>>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can get
>>>> a
>>>> feel for what it is like
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
>>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
>>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
>>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
>>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
>>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
>>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.
>>>>>>> As I
>>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations,
>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to
>>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June,
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled
>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price,"
>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
>>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember,"
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a
>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 19:58:28 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:58:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
References: <150B712A79924BAFB791E842075CCD97@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJBvve8TSZHSQE8UXxaWxvFSeAh-rBUTv=kaUTKvpL9QYQ@mail.gmail.com><D6CD9A83-DE47-4690-8A67-78FCA5A6EBF7@gmail.com><014201cdebbf$c5863400$50929c00$@gmail.com><4DE05C64-E947-4F5F-B684-B632F4940603@gmail.com><EC20CF2F6FD944579C9AE250AC9EE398@acerd37f251f21><45CC28B5-6259-48DB-AA7A-B264D6311D7D@gmail.com><-8267167300595713108@unknownmsgid><A0992EB0-0994-49D1-8BC9-E8F5C20C4AEC@gmail.com>
	<FE49015D-7B27-49AB-87C9-94C9E840E909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6CDB344879C740A18AC22BA66F2D9D07@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Also, they have adaptors now that you can use the older connectors to adapt 
them to the new lightning adaptor, although you would have to pay extra for 
the adaptor. I don't have any other Apple devices though, so I would only 
need the charger that comes with my new IPhone I think.
Thanks,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirt" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?


> Chris,
> Of course you are right about the new Apple dock connector… But, I think, 
> since new chargers come with each new phone, that is kind of irrelevant… 
> Unless you want an extra charger for some reason, which I suppose could be 
> valid. The only reason I didn't upgrade to the iPhone five was that I was 
> already locked into a contract with the four ass, and it wasn't time for 
> me to get a contract renewal and upgrade yet. Besides, if my iPhone 4S can 
> hold out for a little more than six months, I will be able to get a phone 
> that is even more future proof then the five. :-)
>
> So, to the original poster, I guess it's a question of how long you want 
> to be able to use your phone. If you want something which will be more 
> current in a couple of years, get the five. The odds are that it will be 
> supportive longer by Apple, and be more up to date with the future 
> improvement in iOS than the iPhone for S would be. However, if you're more 
> concerned about your budget, the for S works fine, and will probably 
> satisfy you for a couple years or so if you don't need all the latest 
> bells and whistles.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Mauricio Almeida 
> <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> hello there,
>>
>> I have had the iPhone 4s for a few months before migrating to the five, 
>> and I can agree with katherine here, voice over indeed is faster on the 
>> five.
>> It also comes down to internet, as she mentioned.
>> My argument for this kind of situation though is that if you buy the 
>> five,  you will be able to use apps and so on longer.
>> remember when you tried running apps on  mountain lion and they were not 
>> compatible? if they do something like this on whatever new IOS is coming 
>> out soon, things might be slower on the 4s side of things.
>> This is just speculating, as i have not compared processors on both 
>> phones as of yet as I was on vacation, but it is something to think about 
>> nonetheless.
>>
>> Mauricio
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:57 AM, christopher nusbaum 
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> They put a new connector in with the iPhone five, so if you have an
>>> old Apple connector and get an iPhone five, you will need to change
>>> connectors.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:32 AM, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now that I know that you are out of contract, I would bet that you 
>>>> could find a used 4s for cheaper than $400. Be careful though as people 
>>>> often sell stolen phones. If you want to go that route, ask people you 
>>>> know first. And I can offer you other advice if you start looking for 
>>>> online options. Does Cricket sell a warrantee with the phone? If not, 
>>>> look around for a used one.
>>>>
>>>> The differences in the 5 are mostly visual. If you have a cell phone 
>>>> provider that supports LTE, then the 5 might be worth it because it is 
>>>> a lot faster than 3g. Also, if you continue to use Apple products, you 
>>>> might be able to keep your charger and have an extra. However if you 
>>>> buy the 4s, and if down the road you bbuy another iPhone, you will have 
>>>> to use a new charger, and adapters from the old charger to the new one 
>>>> are expensive. But to me, I've seen the same intermittent lagging 
>>>> issues with VoiceOver on the 5.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>
>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:08 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> For me, I wouldn't be on a contract, because I am getting the phone 
>>>>> with Cricket, which is a prepaid cell phone service with no contract. 
>>>>> Cricket sells both the IPhone 4S and the IPhone 5, but they are 
>>>>> selling the IPhone 4S for $399 and the IPhone 5 for $499. Either way I 
>>>>> would not be obligated to be in a contract, so I would be purchasing 
>>>>> the phone, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay with Cricket for 
>>>>> any specified length of time. That is why I am asking about the 
>>>>> differences in the features or which phone is better, because if I pay 
>>>>> $399 I can get the IPhone 4S, but if I pay $499, I can get the IPhone 
>>>>> 5 which is $100 more than the IPhone 4S.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" 
>>>>> <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:38 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point I am making is that you did not just pay $229 for your new 
>>>>>> iPhone. At that price, I'm pretty sure you bought a new contract. 
>>>>>> Unless you bought an unlocked used phone and are on a pay-as-you-go 
>>>>>> plan, you are locked into a contract, and you have to factor that 
>>>>>> into the cost of the phone. Even a free iPhone 4 is only available on 
>>>>>> a contract, so I'm pretty sure your iPhone was purchased as part of a 
>>>>>> contract renewal. In other words, you paid $229 up front plus 
>>>>>> whatever you must pay per month for the next couple of years. The 
>>>>>> price you pay up front is not the real cost of the phone; the real 
>>>>>> price is the cost up front plus the cost of the entire contract. If 
>>>>>> you factor the entire cost of the contract in, it doesn't make a lot 
>>>>>> of sense to go with the cheaper phone, unless of course an extra $100 
>>>>>> up front is a significant financial hardship.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I'm wrong and you are not on some sort of contract, let me know. 
>>>>>> It would surprise me if you were able to get a brand new iPhone 4S 
>>>>>> without a contract for $200.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for purchasing the iPhone 5, there is also the fact that a newer 
>>>>>> phone will almost certainly last longer and will have a higher resale 
>>>>>> value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my perspective, I think it always makes sense to pay the extra 
>>>>>> money up front for a newer phone if you are getting the phone on a 
>>>>>> contract, assuming this is financially possible, and this includes 
>>>>>> renewing contracts as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 8:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankly, I was surprised that iOS 6 ran on the 3GS. I agree that iOS
>>>>>>> 7 will probably not run on that phone whenever that version comes 
>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the discussion of "iPhone 4S vs. iPhone 5,) I purchased my 4S
>>>>>>> after the 5 had come out. Marc, your statement below is probably 
>>>>>>> correct if
>>>>>>> you are buying the phone and a new contract at the same time. This 
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> also depend on which carrier you are using and what their prices 
>>>>>>> are. I
>>>>>>> already had a contract with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone, so 
>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>> not as expensive as it would have been had I switched carriers or 
>>>>>>> bought a
>>>>>>> new contract along with buying my iPhone. Along with Verizon's 
>>>>>>> upgrade fee
>>>>>>> of $30, my iPhone 4S was $199. So, I paid $229 plus tax for it in 
>>>>>>> total. I
>>>>>>> would recommend doing this, as most of the changes made in the 
>>>>>>> iPhone 5 are
>>>>>>> visual in nature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc 
>>>>>>> Workman
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:29 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPhone 4S vs. IPhone 5: Experiences?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think Arielle is right that, besides an overall redesign of the 
>>>>>>> phone, the
>>>>>>> biggest changes are a larger screen and a somewhat better camera. 
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> there are also processor and ram improvements that will future proof 
>>>>>>> the 5
>>>>>>> more than the 4S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something to think about is that if you are buying the phone on a 
>>>>>>> contract,
>>>>>>> then the real cost of the phone is roughly $2000. The money you pay 
>>>>>>> up front
>>>>>>> is the cost of the phone after it is heavily subsidized. The monthly 
>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>> bill is the real cost of the phone, and it is how the phone 
>>>>>>> companies make
>>>>>>> money off you. So the difference is not $100 versus $200, it is 
>>>>>>> $2000 over 2
>>>>>>> years versus $2100 over 2 years. I think when you think about it in 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> way, it makes more sense to shell out the extra hundred up front, 
>>>>>>> unless of
>>>>>>> course this would cause a serious financial hardship. This point 
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> applies, however, if you're buying the phone on a contract.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple is very willing to stop supporting older phones. I'll be quite
>>>>>>> surprised if IOS 7 runs on the 3G s. There are features of IOS 6 
>>>>>>> that are
>>>>>>> already not available on the 3G s or even the 4. So for that hundred
>>>>>>> dollars, you're essentially buying at least an extra year of life 
>>>>>>> for your
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lastly, if you sell your phone in 2 years or so, you'll get more for 
>>>>>>> the 5,
>>>>>>> perhaps even $100 more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So while I wouldn't recommend the 5 over the 4S for 
>>>>>>> voiceover/accessibility
>>>>>>> reasons, I would recommend spending the extra hundred if you can 
>>>>>>> afford it
>>>>>>> for a bunch of other reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2013-01-05, at 6:52 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Misty,
>>>>>>>> I have a 4S, but my sister's boyfriend, who is very techie, says 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> most significant improvements in the iPhone 5 are in the screen and
>>>>>>>> camera. So it sounds to me like it's probably not worth the $100
>>>>>>>> extra, unless you care about photo quality.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I am planning to get an IPhone at the end of this month, and with
>>>>>>>>> Cricket I have the option of a 4S or a 5, although the 5 is $100 
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than the 4S.
>>>>>>>>> Have any of you noticed any differences between the IPhone 4S and 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> IPhone 5, either good or bad? What are your experiences with both? 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have looked at reviews for both, and, other than a faster chip, 
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> changes in the size and the type of charger it uses to charge, and
>>>>>>>>> better screen and camera/video recording capabilities, a lot of 
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> specs seem to be about the same. I am trying to decide whether the
>>>>>>>>> extra $100 is worth spending for the 5 or if I am better off with 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> cheaper 4S. I will most likely go in to the store and see if they
>>>>>>>>> will let me look at both, but I am just wondering what the
>>>>>>>>> experiences are of those who have used either phone as a voiceover 
>>>>>>>>> user?
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 19:59:13 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:59:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <C6B62263-DE23-4EC9-BDF7-92270E261ACB@gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com>
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	<43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
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	<8991475157442672472@unknownmsgid>
	<10432930-03F5-44BF-9352-A10AAD88570C@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZwQtfL8jiip7Na5HsWsKfZCch_OoDF7oaKT+V5_xaYMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDrFR41RAUaUOKUw3zJwp_s0Y54kPMm9yLuM9xKKo0ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<997CE88009BC452D97DA355C64EEB182@acerd37f251f21>
	<C6B62263-DE23-4EC9-BDF7-92270E261ACB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYhBj_2t5B5Eu1nS4wAPVQuj9kkTJseORvy6HgW7ZGvPw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm really interested in seeing how these Apps really turn out just
for the heck of it.  My thought on the second App is that it might be
faster than using the on-screen qwerty keyboard and hunting and
pecking all the time, but that's basically the only big thing I've
taken away from it.  I think they just developed it for competition;
otherwise we wouldn't have JAWS and Window Eyes, BrailleNotes and
BrailleSenses, Android competing with Apple for voice accessibility,
etc.  It's not that different from everything else.

I agree with Mauricio, although I think a lot of those people are
older and not necessarily on the technological up and up.  Although my
family is a big supporter of braille literacy and I've even attended a
state convention NAPUB meeting, I don't think Braille should be the
only way to go for every situation and it works on a case by case
basis.  I think it's an important skill to have, but the idea about it
that sighted people have is that it's the only tool we have.  (I'm
sure we've all had the astonished reactions of sighted people when
they see us typing on a standard computer, "Is that thing speaking
another language?  How can you hear it, it's so fast!").

I think the big braille supporters are right, that it is something not
enough people are being taught, not enough schools are providing to
blind students, and getting quick and efficient access to materials in
braille is still a problem, but the older people have been fighting
these things for decades and in the regard of making sighted people
realize braille is important they have succeeded.  However, I think we
young adults should also step in and show that other things are
important too.  Most people know about braille by now, but they also
know stereotypes that aren't true and underestimate how much like them
we can really be.

On 1/6/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi misty,
>
> a lot of what you say about sighted people comes from us. there are people
> amongst us who defend braille like it is their son who has been kidnapped by
> armed forces on an island and needs rescue immediately before being cut into
> pieces and mailed to all relatives.
> I believe braille is important, but the way these people present braille as
> the blind's god, including when they say that we will only be competitive on
> employment using braille, damages the already messed up interpretation
> sighted folks have of us and the integrity of those of us who use other
> methods and are successful.
>
> mauricio
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Yes, this app sounds similar to the other one, although I don't understand
>> why the students created one when there is another app like it already
>> being tested? I agree with others that the other project should not have
>> been dropped, although it is nice to be able to type in Braille. For me, I
>> am used to the QWERTY keyboard when typing emails, texts, documents, etc.
>> If I had difficulty typing on a touch screen, I would just get a bluetooth
>> QWERTY keyboard to type on, and the only reason I would switch to a
>> Braille keyboard is if I am actually composing Braille in a Braille
>> document. I guess the preference depends on the individual, but now I use
>> the computer for most things, so I am used to the QWERTY keyboard,
>> although I am fast with Braille also. I guess I am just surprised at how
>> sighted people think that all of our typing must be in Braille for us to
>> type adequately, and they seem to think that it is terribly difficult to
>> type on a QWERTY keyboard. I don't understand this, especially when
>> knowing how to use a QWERTY keyboard quickly and efficiently is an
>> important skill for employment and things of this nature. I can understand
>> that on a touch screen it can be more challenging, but after some time
>> getting familiar with it, one usually gets faster at it. I am not saying
>> that Braille is not important, but I am just saying that being quick and
>> accurate on a QWERTY keyboard is important in today's job market also,
>> although Braille is a very useful skill for the blind in taking notes,
>> labeling, and producing Braille materials, etc.
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaiti Shelton"
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>
>>
>>> In googling for the name of the beta app, I've found this other app.
>>> I think this one might be more up my personal ally, since I primarily
>>> use my phone keyboard for texts and emails, but check it out:
>>>
>>> http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/20/can-braille-be-faster-than-qwerty-app-developer-thinks-so/
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Gotcha,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, a link would be great.  Or even the name of the App should
>>>> suffice.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/6/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Would you mind sending the link? That way others, including myself can
>>>>> get
>>>>> a
>>>>> feel for what it is like
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:48 AM, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The beta version is on the app store now, but it is only a trial
>>>>>> version. They haven't come out with the full release yet, as they are
>>>>>> still Fixing bugs before they release the full version to the public.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
>>>>>>> market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
>>>>>>> project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
>>>>>>> braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
>>>>>>> notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make
>>>>>>> bags
>>>>>>> a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> texts and have it come out in English.
>>>>>>>> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
>>>>>>>> ;d
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
>>>>>>>> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an
>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I
>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing
>>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>>> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>>> Andrews
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over
>>>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>>>> As I
>>>>>>>> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a
>>>>>>>> tablet
>>>>>>>> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer
>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would
>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>> on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like
>>>>>>>>> VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>>> If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>>>>>>>> Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and
>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>> Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille
>>>>>>>>> output
>>>>>>>>> would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>>>> In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>>>>>>>> recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for
>>>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>>>> it are without much basis.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
>>>>>>>> Already,
>>>>>>>>>> this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual
>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>> writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>>>>>>>>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>>>>>>>>>> value and that, I think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>>>> <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user
>>>>>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current
>>>>>>>>>>> tablets
>>>>>>>>>>> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to
>>>>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>>>>>>>>>>> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>>>>>>>>>>> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his
>>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>>> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math
>>>>>>>>>>> equations,
>>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>>> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of
>>>>>>>>>>> print.
>>>>>>>>>>> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> already exists.
>>>>>>>>>>> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>>>>>>>>>>> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one
>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> another, without really educating themselves on what is already
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type
>>>>>>>>>>>> texts
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> than in print LOL...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>>>>>>>>>>>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>>> summer
>>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing,
>>>>>>>>>>>> promising
>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This
>>>>>>>>>>>> summer's
>>>>>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>>>>>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to
>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionize
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Army
>>>>>>>>>>>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a
>>>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> two-month
>>>>>>>>>>>> immersion
>>>>>>>>>>>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work
>>>>>>>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete,
>>>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>>>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration
>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and
>>>>>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last
>>>>>>>>>>>> June,
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentors
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational
>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a
>>>>>>>>>>>> character-recognition
>>>>>>>>>>>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a
>>>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>>> "It
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BIGGER FISH
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja
>>>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>>>>>>>>>>>> profession
>>>>>>>>>>>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the
>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to
>>>>>>>>>>>> fry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper
>>>>>>>>>>>> lighting
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful,
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they
>>>>>>>>>>>> stumbled
>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sweet spot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> Lew.
>>>>>>>>>>>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
>>>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>>>>>>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send
>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost,
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited
>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>>>> typing Braille, of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the
>>>>>>>>>>>> price,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duran.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
>>>>>>>> writer,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>>>>>>>> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
>>>>>>>> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
>>>>>>>> Originally
>>>>>>>>>>>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps,
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the
>>>>>>>>>>>> bumps
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>>>>>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>>>>>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible
>>>>>>>>>>>> characters.
>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>>>> 63
>>>>>>>>>>>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>>>>>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly
>>>>>>>>>>>> gobbled
>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> total
>>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>>>>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> CHALLENGE
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight-key
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> key.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a
>>>>>>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips
>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>>>>>>>>>>>> touches
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
>>>>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all
>>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>>>>>>>>>>>> customizable,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are
>>>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart,
>>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with
>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>> opposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as if playing a clarinet."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Charbel
>>>>>>>> Farhat,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and
>>>>>>>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOWING OFF
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject
>>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>>>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Burgers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> followed with the chemical equation for
>>>>>>>>>>>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> awesome,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>>> portable
>>>>>>>>>>>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that
>>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only
>>>>>>>>>>>> trains
>>>>>>>>>>>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also
>>>>>>>>>>>> exposes
>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
>>>>>>>> cooperative
>>>>>>>>>>>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
>>>>>>>> engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>>>>>>>>>>>> Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>> remember,"
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each
>>>>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Engineering.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 20:25:17 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:25:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <90721F17-2CE9-4959-857D-1363B80368F3@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com><CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<90721F17-2CE9-4959-857D-1363B80368F3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31B16BD654AB463B9D467BBA3DDCB058@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I never talked over the below with my Accessibility Department, I just told 
my aid:
add 1, 2, 3 and 4, then subtract 9 and square root it.
That way the aid is told what button to press in both your languages. I 
doubt that it will even be an issue if you don't bring it up...
I often find that it is best accessibility wise if we remain a little vaig 
to the guys providing my accommodations. They don't need to know exactly 
everything that I do with them. You won't be tested on the button placement 
on the calculator I don't think, so it is not something you need to know.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Mauricio Almeida
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 9:15 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course

hello there,

Please keep in mind I am not sure how your disability office will interpret 
this answer, so you must be a little careful when presenting it to them.
About math player: Michigan state university has adopted them pretty much as 
default to work with things such as webwork, which you will probably end up 
using for homework.
I can tell you that if your jaws is configured correctly it will be just 
fine to read.
there's no need to worry there. the program doesn't require you to do 
anything. it is just an extension for explorer, once installed, boom, you're 
ready to go.
what this means is, there is no such a thing as learning math player.
now about the calculator, and here is where we're going to have a little 
convincing to do on your end:
When I was graduating from the american school of sao paulo, which was for 
years the best american school even if you counted half of the schools in 
the US, I had an assistant for math and science classes, who staked with me 
as well as the professors and students, and who's only job was to adapt 
materials for me and make sure i understood what was going on.
Now, I am not suggesting you ask this to your university, however, here is 
our interpretation as far as calculators:
While some conservative people might think it is useful for you to know that 
say, the plus button is above the minus button and that you must press that 
after the select mode button to make the calculator do this and this, we 
worked on a concept basis: If i knew exactly what the calculator needed tod 
o, for example, calculate the matrix of these numbers, adding them in this 
order) and so on, she did not require me to learn the buttons themselves. it 
saved me time, and in the end of the day she was not doing any work for me.
do you think your office would agree with this kind of approach?

mauricio
On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi Bridget,
>
> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a 
>> friend
>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any 
>> assignments
>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to 
>> go.
>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>
>> Best of luck
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 20:31:47 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com><CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com><197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com><CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CBCD002915345E89D53585721EB114E@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
Does Nemetex not work? That is very surprising as Stats is probably the most 
common college math Corse.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 10:39 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course

Hi guys,

I have been in contact with my stats professor for several weeks now.
He's married to the director of student learning services and told me
the disabilities office likes to refer their students to him, so he's
used to making accomodations based on individual needs.  He sounds
like a really nice guy, and he's already given me permission to do
things like write text descriptions of graphs rather than sit down
with a cork board, thumb tacks, and tactile graph paper like I had to
do in high school math.  He also said that for him grading on concept
is more important than visual representation, so I think he'd be in
favor of taking the conceptual approach Mauricio suggested even with
the calculator.

I know they mean well, but I think my disabilities office just feels
uncomfortable.  They started working on my math book in September and
had me pick out my professor way before scheduling so they could talk
to him.  A graphing calculator is listed as one of the course
materials and supposedly they have talked with my professor about what
functions he needs the calculators to do, but I'm wondering if he
could tell me manual methods of handling the equasions the
BrailleSense doesn't cover like some of my high school teachers did.
In that case, I could use the BrailleSense as much as possible and
cross the mental math bridges as they come without anyone else's
assistance.

Part of the issue is that they don't have someone on site who can
transcribe braille into print.  I would be most comfortable doing what
I know, even if using a brailler may seem a little stone-age.  I would
also rather have my equasions in braille rather than read to me
through math player because as Arielle said it would give me direct
interaction with the equasion, and honestly I'll probably end up
dictating what the computer says anyway because I've always done math
with hard copy braille.  I'm willing to make consessions like writing
my math on the computer and using math player because there is no
reliable way for someone to accurately produce Nemeth and transcribe
it into print, but some of these other issues are just making me
uncomfortable and worried as they stand.  Hopefully I can get some
more positive answers later this week.

Thanks all,

On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
> their boundaries.
> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
> with the problems yourself.
> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
> learn best.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is
>> not
>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate
>> what
>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator 
>> however,
>> I
>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are
>> playing
>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able
>> o
>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and
>> they
>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers
>> of
>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>> ideas come through.
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>
>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>> friend
>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers.
>>>> I
>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>> assignments
>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>> best
>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>> the
>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way
>>>> to
>>>> go.
>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck
>>>>
>>>> Bridget
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From jeffc4 at lavabit.com  Sun Jan  6 20:42:53 2013
From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:42:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] google play experiences
Message-ID: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>

Hi all,
Has anyone ever used google play? If so can you tell me about your
experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying to
diside if i should take advantage of this service from google, and wanted
to know if there is any accessibility problems.

Thanks

73
kd8qiq
Jeff Crouch




From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 21:54:48 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:54:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <0CBCD002915345E89D53585721EB114E@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CBCD002915345E89D53585721EB114E@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC6iUCPrjP=3wiBN1M_=_mz7Tsz0tvVNrGd7dZ9H6vwBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti,
It sounds like your professor is very flexible and so you shouldn't
have any problems at all. Are you taking psych stats? If so, I'd be
happy to talk off-list as I am a psychology doctoral student and have
taken five psych stats courses (two undergrad and three graduate). You
can write me off-list at
arielle71 at gmail.com
As I said, I doubt you actually need any calculator more sophisticated
than your Braille Sense. My boyfriend has taught introductory psych
stats several times and he said he has never seen a requirement for a
graphing calculator. It's possible the professor put that in there
when he really meant scientific calculator.
Microsoft Excel can also do almost everything you will need to do, and
the rest can be done by hand using a standard scientific calculator
for computing square roots, sums etc.
If you have a Perkins Brailler and want to use that for writing your
assignments, you could always hire someone to transcribe your Brailled
assignments that you read them aloud, (someone you find on your own
and not through disability services), but this is probably not the
most efficient. What I would personally recommend is to do all your
assignments on the computer in Microsoft Word, and to use your Braille
Sense to write down equations and to serve as a scratch pad and a
calculator.
What format will your book be coming in? If it's audio or if you'll be
reading it with JAWS, you can take down detailed notes on your Braille
Sense, and write down all equations and formulas you hear in the book
or in class using Nemeth or whatever shorthand symbols you prefer.
Your notes are just for you, so don't worry about perfect Nemeth or
computer Braille.
I think writing text descriptions for any graphs you are asked to
generate is a great way to enhance your own learning and also
demonstrate to the professor that you understand what the graphs will
look like.
Finally, there are a couple other lists you might want to join to talk
to other blind statisticians, stats students etc.:
BlindMath list
Social-Sciences list (both on NFBNet server)

Best of luck, and I'm sure you will do fine!
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Does Nemetex not work? That is very surprising as Stats is probably the most
>
> common college math Corse.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 10:39 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I have been in contact with my stats professor for several weeks now.
> He's married to the director of student learning services and told me
> the disabilities office likes to refer their students to him, so he's
> used to making accomodations based on individual needs.  He sounds
> like a really nice guy, and he's already given me permission to do
> things like write text descriptions of graphs rather than sit down
> with a cork board, thumb tacks, and tactile graph paper like I had to
> do in high school math.  He also said that for him grading on concept
> is more important than visual representation, so I think he'd be in
> favor of taking the conceptual approach Mauricio suggested even with
> the calculator.
>
> I know they mean well, but I think my disabilities office just feels
> uncomfortable.  They started working on my math book in September and
> had me pick out my professor way before scheduling so they could talk
> to him.  A graphing calculator is listed as one of the course
> materials and supposedly they have talked with my professor about what
> functions he needs the calculators to do, but I'm wondering if he
> could tell me manual methods of handling the equasions the
> BrailleSense doesn't cover like some of my high school teachers did.
> In that case, I could use the BrailleSense as much as possible and
> cross the mental math bridges as they come without anyone else's
> assistance.
>
> Part of the issue is that they don't have someone on site who can
> transcribe braille into print.  I would be most comfortable doing what
> I know, even if using a brailler may seem a little stone-age.  I would
> also rather have my equasions in braille rather than read to me
> through math player because as Arielle said it would give me direct
> interaction with the equasion, and honestly I'll probably end up
> dictating what the computer says anyway because I've always done math
> with hard copy braille.  I'm willing to make consessions like writing
> my math on the computer and using math player because there is no
> reliable way for someone to accurately produce Nemeth and transcribe
> it into print, but some of these other issues are just making me
> uncomfortable and worried as they stand.  Hopefully I can get some
> more positive answers later this week.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti,
>> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
>> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
>> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
>> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
>> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
>> their boundaries.
>> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
>> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
>> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
>> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
>> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
>> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
>> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
>> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
>> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
>> with the problems yourself.
>> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
>> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
>> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
>> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
>> learn best.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is
>>> not
>>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate
>>> what
>>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator
>>> however,
>>> I
>>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are
>>> playing
>>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able
>>> o
>>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and
>>> they
>>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the
>>> challengers
>>> of
>>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>>> ideas come through.
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>>
>>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>>> friend
>>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers.
>>>>> I
>>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>>> assignments
>>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>>> best
>>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>>> the
>>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way
>>>>> to
>>>>> go.
>>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridget
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 22:15:58 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 17:15:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC6iUCPrjP=3wiBN1M_=_mz7Tsz0tvVNrGd7dZ9H6vwBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ8d=ha0vPH-E+Uzo5Ww91zRnCE7XNL1H6Y-Y6jWp6G3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CBCD002915345E89D53585721EB114E@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJC6iUCPrjP=3wiBN1M_=_mz7Tsz0tvVNrGd7dZ9H6vwBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbMUm7d5t3Bax+eR+Y8yjdmXxeYR1i3HU4pENWk5+_CwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

Brandon, I don't have a copy of Nemetext and neither does my college.
I know some people who use it and thought about asking them what they
thought of it, but since my major only requires this one stats course
and no further math it didn't seem worth the buy.

Arielle, thanks for the contact info.  I will probably email you off
list at some point either for ideas or to talk psych.  I'm only going
for a minor along with my major right now, but I'm really interested
in it and may up going further with it after my music major is
finished.

Thanks,


On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
> It sounds like your professor is very flexible and so you shouldn't
> have any problems at all. Are you taking psych stats? If so, I'd be
> happy to talk off-list as I am a psychology doctoral student and have
> taken five psych stats courses (two undergrad and three graduate). You
> can write me off-list at
> arielle71 at gmail.com
> As I said, I doubt you actually need any calculator more sophisticated
> than your Braille Sense. My boyfriend has taught introductory psych
> stats several times and he said he has never seen a requirement for a
> graphing calculator. It's possible the professor put that in there
> when he really meant scientific calculator.
> Microsoft Excel can also do almost everything you will need to do, and
> the rest can be done by hand using a standard scientific calculator
> for computing square roots, sums etc.
> If you have a Perkins Brailler and want to use that for writing your
> assignments, you could always hire someone to transcribe your Brailled
> assignments that you read them aloud, (someone you find on your own
> and not through disability services), but this is probably not the
> most efficient. What I would personally recommend is to do all your
> assignments on the computer in Microsoft Word, and to use your Braille
> Sense to write down equations and to serve as a scratch pad and a
> calculator.
> What format will your book be coming in? If it's audio or if you'll be
> reading it with JAWS, you can take down detailed notes on your Braille
> Sense, and write down all equations and formulas you hear in the book
> or in class using Nemeth or whatever shorthand symbols you prefer.
> Your notes are just for you, so don't worry about perfect Nemeth or
> computer Braille.
> I think writing text descriptions for any graphs you are asked to
> generate is a great way to enhance your own learning and also
> demonstrate to the professor that you understand what the graphs will
> look like.
> Finally, there are a couple other lists you might want to join to talk
> to other blind statisticians, stats students etc.:
> BlindMath list
> Social-Sciences list (both on NFBNet server)
>
> Best of luck, and I'm sure you will do fine!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/6/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Does Nemetex not work? That is very surprising as Stats is probably the
>> most
>>
>> common college math Corse.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 10:39 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I have been in contact with my stats professor for several weeks now.
>> He's married to the director of student learning services and told me
>> the disabilities office likes to refer their students to him, so he's
>> used to making accomodations based on individual needs.  He sounds
>> like a really nice guy, and he's already given me permission to do
>> things like write text descriptions of graphs rather than sit down
>> with a cork board, thumb tacks, and tactile graph paper like I had to
>> do in high school math.  He also said that for him grading on concept
>> is more important than visual representation, so I think he'd be in
>> favor of taking the conceptual approach Mauricio suggested even with
>> the calculator.
>>
>> I know they mean well, but I think my disabilities office just feels
>> uncomfortable.  They started working on my math book in September and
>> had me pick out my professor way before scheduling so they could talk
>> to him.  A graphing calculator is listed as one of the course
>> materials and supposedly they have talked with my professor about what
>> functions he needs the calculators to do, but I'm wondering if he
>> could tell me manual methods of handling the equasions the
>> BrailleSense doesn't cover like some of my high school teachers did.
>> In that case, I could use the BrailleSense as much as possible and
>> cross the mental math bridges as they come without anyone else's
>> assistance.
>>
>> Part of the issue is that they don't have someone on site who can
>> transcribe braille into print.  I would be most comfortable doing what
>> I know, even if using a brailler may seem a little stone-age.  I would
>> also rather have my equasions in braille rather than read to me
>> through math player because as Arielle said it would give me direct
>> interaction with the equasion, and honestly I'll probably end up
>> dictating what the computer says anyway because I've always done math
>> with hard copy braille.  I'm willing to make consessions like writing
>> my math on the computer and using math player because there is no
>> reliable way for someone to accurately produce Nemeth and transcribe
>> it into print, but some of these other issues are just making me
>> uncomfortable and worried as they stand.  Hopefully I can get some
>> more positive answers later this week.
>>
>> Thanks all,
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kaiti,
>>> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
>>> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
>>> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
>>> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
>>> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
>>> their boundaries.
>>> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
>>> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
>>> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
>>> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
>>> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
>>> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
>>> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
>>> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
>>> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
>>> with the problems yourself.
>>> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
>>> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
>>> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
>>> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
>>> learn best.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>>>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it
>>>> is
>>>> not
>>>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate
>>>> what
>>>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>>>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator
>>>> however,
>>>> I
>>>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be
>>>> highly
>>>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are
>>>> playing
>>>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be
>>>> able
>>>> o
>>>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and
>>>> they
>>>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>>>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the
>>>> challengers
>>>> of
>>>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope
>>>> mor
>>>> ideas come through.
>>>>
>>>> Bridget
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>>>> friend
>>>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille
>>>>>> readers.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>>>> assignments
>>>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go.
>>>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or
>>>>>> science
>>>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best of luck
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bridget
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 22:16:28 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:16:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing With the Author's Guild?
Message-ID: <64E0E0F9A68D4072AB7B1FD2F2F96AA4@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I've been reading up on why the Kindle device has not dived completely into 
tts and I'm wondering if anyone has ever told the authors' guild how many 
books they read a week?
I've talked to many of my friends and by far, those who are blind read more 
than those who are sighted.
Just for kicks, how many books does everyone on here read each month? I read 
at least 12 books a month, and I tend to stay away from the 350-400 pagers 
as they don't develop as well as the 900-1200 page books in my opinion. I 
read about 4 1000 page books a week and that is my lowest number.
I'm a full-time music student and don't even spend time devoted to reading. 
If I was a literature or librarian student, I'm sure my reading would be 
quite more. I wouldn't consider myself an avid reader except when looking at 
this website:
http://library.blogs.delaware.gov/2012/08/05/q-how-many-books-does-the-average-american-read-a-year/

I see that 15 books is how many books the average sighted person reads a 
year!
This must make me some kind of excessive book nerd or something with 144 
books a year.
I know if Kindle became as good as one of the Braille Plusses or something 
of that nature, I would gladly choose to pay for my books through that 
rather than going on bookshare. (Although my book reading would probably go 
down).
I am perfectly happy with Bookshare, although I don't really like it when 
there is book 1, book 2, book 4 and book 5 in the series only. That means I 
have to go onto Kindle, get the book, convert it to HTML and transfer it 
onto my unit before I can get book 3, rather than the 1 click thing I have 
with Bookshare.
This actually makes me wonder if pursuing Kindle is worth it? I really like 
paying $50 a year for bookshare LOL... I am totally out of the loop when it 
comes to new releases, but there are so many books, I am never nearly out of 
books.
But if the author's guild was told how many books a blind person reads vs a 
sighted person thanks to TTS, would it make a difference?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 23:20:38 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:20:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB01F805B8D74225807D205BACF8243F@BrandonsLaptop2><CALAYQJC-CKe-H3ZxNGJUejiUkGgDd-raNcLjEN6crrUMj0Nkxw@mail.gmail.com><090C173C-8CE4-4C71-A2C0-DA28A27EDE6C@gmail.com><CALAYQJDteZ34NFiHWvaP=ZdAg3AJVTBkUiVJ8r8GnG5U4s+O5w@mail.gmail.com><auto-000092633568@mailfront3.g2host.com><014901cdebc1$f74e4610$e5ead230$@gmail.com><43E2DCC63C274C47812D150A8EDEA802@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAFja7FZ+Nr7_A96cjr-in6OgFTfkBe8QUp0g7-0wBo0Cjo=EUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E63D1C5098C04EEBB31F894AD6027F9B@OwnerPC>

I'm surprised anyone feels comfortable typing on a touch screen. I'd not 
want to type in braille on a touch screen anyway; as Arielle said, it would 
be useless without speech anyway.
I don't see how you keep your place on the keys on a touch screen.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:37 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer

Hi,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's on the App Store
market yet.  If it is though I'd love to test it out.

I do agree with some things that were said, that the Braille OCR
project should be picked back up and that the reasons for stopping it
were bogus, but I'm excited to see what this App is.  I love how small
my BrailleSense On-Hand is, but if I, or any college student for that
matter, could just pack an IPad along with a braille display and have
the capability to go back and forth between writing in print and
braille that would be amazing.  Although it wouldn't fully eliminate
notetakers and laptops from the equasion, it would certainly make bags
a little lighter and have sort of a 2-in-1 feel.

On 1/5/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> What really would be useful is if I could type contracted Braille on my
> texts and have it come out in English.
> t way I wd n h (lowF)type (ou) e (th)(ing)
> ;d
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:57 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
> Dave,
>
> My question is how more than one dot, such as dots 1-4 for a c,
> would be typed using this app on a touch screen. It is an interesting idea
> indeed, and I am interested in playing with it on my iPhone. I wonder
> whether typing in Braille on a touch screen will increase my typing speed
> once I get used to doing it? Very interesting! By the way, have any of you
> actually played with this app? If so, what are your thoughts after using
> it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: Touchscreen Braille Writer
>
> It seems to me that you folks are getting all worked up over nothing.  As 
> I
> understand it, the software is for input only, and would run on a tablet
> like the iPad with access through voiceover.  Some people prefer Braille
> input, some qwerty, some fleksy or another system.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:29 PM 1/3/2013, you wrote:
>>Maybe, I just want to know whether the software they created would run
>>on a device that has accessible output of some sort, like VoiceOver.
>>If not, then the Braille touchscreen is pretty much useless.
>>Personally, as a Braille reader and longtime Braille Note and Braille
>>Lite user, I feel like typing in Braille without the Braille output
>>would be awkward and not very helpful. But maybe others disagree with
>>me?
>>In any case I think their first idea of the Braille character
>>recognizer has much greater utility, and their reasons for abandoning
>>it are without much basis.
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 1/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> > I'm sorry for the double post. But I feel like I need to clarify.
> Already,
>> > this idea is being modified in apps where we can use of virtual braille
>> > writer on the touch screen of an iPhone or an
>> iPad. I see a decent amount of
>> > value and that, I think.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oh how I wish these smart, creative guys had talked with blind people
>> >> before inventing this thing! Unless I missed something, does this
>> >> tablet have speech or Braille output? How is the blind user supposed
>> >> to be able to read his/her notes? I'm not sure if any current tablets
>> >> are accessible. Even if one is, I don't think the ability to write in
>> >> Braille rather than in QWERTY matters that much. The appeal of the
>> >> overpriced Braille notetaker is the Braille output, not the Braille
>> >> keyboard! Oh....Wow! That's all I can say.
>> >> If I were these guys I would go ahead with the Braille character
>> >> recognizer. That actually has some utility. It would allow a blind
>> >> schoolchild to convert his Brailled homework to print that his teacher
>> >> could read, or a blind college student to Braille math equations, scan
>> >> them and send them to her professor. If these Stanford students had
>> >> actually talked with blind people, they would have learned that blind
>> >> people successfully use apps that involve taking pictures of print.
>> >> Taking pictures of Braille would be easier, not harder, than what
>> >> already exists.
>> >> It continually blows my mind how many people make it a personal
>> >> passion to work on improving the lives of blind people in one way or
>> >> another, without really educating themselves on what is already out
>> >> there or what real live blind folks actually need.
>> >> Arielle
>> >>
>> >> On 1/3/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>> Below is an article I was sent about a new app. I am not a fan of the
> way
>> >>> the creator views blind people, but I do think having a Braille
>> >>> Writer
> on
>> >>> the tablet would be very nice. It is so much faster to type texts in
>> >>> Braille
>> >>>
>> >>> than in print LOL...
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> STANFORD SUMMER COURSE YIELDS TOUCHSCREEN BRAILLE WRITER
>> >>> Home<http://engineering.stanford.edu/> >
>> >>> About<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about> > News &
>> >>> Updates<http://engineering.stanford.edu/about/news> > Stanford summer
>> >>> course
>> >>>
>> >>> yields touchscreen Braille writer
>> >>> <http://engineering.stanford.edu/print/node/148>
>> >>> In a two-month summer course on high-performance computing, promising
>> >>> undergrads compete to create innovative applications. This summer's
>> >>> winner
>> >>> developed a touchscreen Braille writer that stands to revolutionize
> how
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>> blind negotiate an unseen world by replacing devices costing up to 10
>> >>> times
>> >>>
>> >>> more.
>> >>> Andrew Myers
>> >>>
>> >>> Each summer, under the red-tiled roofs and sandstone of Stanford, the
>> >>> Army
>> >>> High-Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) invites a select
>> >>> group
>> >>> of undergraduates from across the country gather for a two-month
>> >>> immersion
>> >>> into the wonders of advanced computing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Some of the undergraduates are gathered into teams. Some work alone.
> All
>> >>> are
>> >>>
>> >>> assigned mentors and tasked with a challenge. They compete, American
>> >>> Idol-style, for top honors at the end of the summer.
>> >>>
>> >>> The competition is made possible in part by a collaboration between
> the
>> >>> U.S.
>> >>>
>> >>> Army and several university and industry partners that makes up the
>> >>> AHPCRC.
>> >>>
>> >>> Adam Duran is one such undergraduate, a student both lucky and good.
> He
>> >>> is
>> >>> now in his senior year at New Mexico State University. Last June, he
> came
>> >>> to
>> >>>
>> >>> Stanford at the suggestion of one of his professors. His mentors were
>> >>> Adrian
>> >>>
>> >>> Lew, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering, and Sohan
>> >>> Dharmaraja,
>> >>>
>> >>> a doctoral candidate at Stanford studying computational mathematics.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Originally, our assignment was to create a character-recognition
>> >>> application that would use the camera on a mobile device - a phone or
>> >>> tablet - to transform pages of Braille into readable text," said
> Duran.
>> >>> "It
>> >>>
>> >>> was a cool challenge, but not exactly where we ended up."
>> >>>
>> >>> BIGGER FISH
>> >>>
>> >>> Even before Duran arrived for the summer, Lew and Dharmaraja began to
>> >>> talk
>> >>> to the Stanford Office of Accessible
>> >>> Education<http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/oae>, people whose
>> >>> profession
>> >>> is helping blind and visually impaired students negotiate the world
>> >>> of
>> >>> higher learning. It became clear that there were bigger fish to fry.
>> >>>
>> >>> While a Braille character reader would be helpful to the blind, Lew
> and
>> >>> Dharmaraja learned, there were logistics that were hard to get
>> >>> around.
>> >>>
>> >>> "How does a blind person orient a printed page so that the computer
> knows
>> >>> which side is up? How does a blind person ensure proper lighting of
> the
>> >>> paper?" said Duran. "Plus, the technology, while definitely helpful,
>> >>> would
>> >>> be limited in day-to-day application."
>> >>>
>> >>> "It was a nice-to-have, not a must-have," said Dharmaraja.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, the three began to ask questions. That is when they stumbled upon
> a
>> >>> sweet spot.
>> >>>
>> >>> "The killer app was not a reader, but a writer," said Dharmaraja.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Imagine being blind in a classroom, how would you take notes?" said
> Lew.
>> >>> "What if you were on the street and needed to copy down a phone
> number?
>> >>> These are real challenges the blind grapple with every day."
>> >>>
>> >>> There are devices that help the blind write Braille, to send email
>> >>> and
> so
>> >>> forth, but they are essentially specialized laptops that cost, in
>> >>> some
>> >>> cases, $6,000 or more. All for a device of limited functionality,
> beyond
>> >>> typing Braille, of course.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Your standard tablet has more capability at a tenth the price," said
>> >>> Duran.
>> >>>
>> >>> "So, we put two and two together. We developed a tablet Braille
> writer,"
>> >>> said Dharmaraja, "A touchscreen for people who can't see."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
> [http://engineering.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/700wide/news
> %20-%202012%200505%20-%20touchscreen%20braile%20writer.jpeg]Sohan
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja, a doctoral candidate at Stanford, demonstrates how the
>> >>> software
>> >>>
>> >>> works.
>> >>>
>> >>> First, however, the student-mentor team had to learn Braille.
> Originally
>> >>> developed for the French military, Braille is a relatively simple
>> >>> code
>> >>> with
>> >>>
>> >>> each character made up of variations of six dots - or bumps, really -
>> >>> arranged in a 2-by-3 matrix. The blind read by feeling the bumps with
>> >>> their
>> >>>
>> >>> fingertips.
>> >>>
>> >>> As any computational mathematician will tell you, such a matrix
>> >>> yields
>> >>> two-to-the-sixth minus one variations, or 63 possible characters.
> These
>> >>> 63
>> >>> characters are enough for a Western alphabet plus 10 numerical
>> >>> digits,
>> >>> with
>> >>>
>> >>> several left over for punctuation and some special characters.
>> >>>
>> >>> Over the years, however, those 63 characters got quickly gobbled up -
>> >>> through the addition of character-modification keystrokes, the total
> grew
>> >>> and now includes chemical, mathematical and other symbols.
>> >>>
>> >>> CHALLENGE
>> >>>
>> >>> A modern Braille writer looks like a laptop with no monitor and an
>> >>> eight-key
>> >>>
>> >>> keyboard - six to create the character, plus a carriage return and a
>> >>> delete
>> >>>
>> >>> key.
>> >>>
>> >>> Duplicating the Braille keypad on a touch-based tablet seemed simple
>> >>> enough,
>> >>>
>> >>> but there was at least one significant challenge: How does a blind
> person
>> >>> find the keys on a flat, uniformly smooth glass panel?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja and Duran mulled their options before arriving at a clever
> and
>> >>> simple solution. They did not create virtual keys that the fingertips
>> >>> must
>> >>> find; they made keys that find the fingertips. The user simply
>> >>> touches
>> >>> eight
>> >>>
>> >>> fingertips to the glass, and the keys orient themselves to the
> fingers.
>> >>> If
>> >>> the user becomes disoriented, a reset is as easy as lifting all eight
>> >>> fingers off the glass and putting them down again.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Elegant, no?" said Lew. "The solution is so simple, so beautiful. It
> was
>> >>> fun to see."
>> >>>
>> >>> Beyond the price difference, touchscreens offer at least one other
>> >>> significant advantage over standard Braille writers: "They're
>> >>> customizable,"
>> >>>
>> >>> Dharmaraja noted. "They can accommodate users whose fingers are small
> or
>> >>> large, those who type with fingers close together or far apart, even
> to
>> >>> allow a user to type on a tablet hanging around the neck with hands
>> >>> opposed
>> >>>
>> >>> as if playing a clarinet."
>> >>>
>> >>> "No standard Braille writer can do this," said Professor Charbel
> Farhat,
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>> chair of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department and executive
>> >>> director
>> >>>
>> >>> of the summer program. "This is a real step forward for the blind."
>> >>>
>> >>> SHOWING OFF
>> >>>
>> >>> In a demo, Duran donned a blindfold and readied himself before the
>> >>> touchscreen. He typed out an email address and a simple subject line.
>> >>> Then
>> >>> he typed one of the best-known mathematical formulas in the world,
>> >>> the
>> >>> Burgers Equation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgers%27_equation>,
> and
>> >>> followed with the chemical equation for
>> >>> photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis> - complex
>> >>> stuff - all as if writing a note to his mother.
>> >>>
>> >>> For Duran, who has an uncle who is blind, the greatest joy was in
> seeing
>> >>> a
>> >>> blind person using his creation for the first time. "That was so
>> >>> awesome,"
>> >>> he said. "I can't describe the feeling. It was the best."
>> >>>
>> >>> In the immediate future, there are technical and legal hurdles to
>> >>> address,
>> >>> but someday, perhaps soon, the blind and visually impaired may find
>> >>> themselves with a more cost-effective Braille writer that is both
>> >>> portable
>> >>> and blessed with greater functionality than any device that went
> before.
>> >>>
>> >>> "AHPCRC is an excellent model for outreach, which not only trains
>> >>> undergraduate students in computational sciences but also exposes
>> >>> students
>> >>> to real-world research applications," said Raju Namburu, the
> cooperative
>> >>> agreement manager for AHPCRC.
>> >>>
>> >>> The center addresses the Army's most difficult scientific and
> engineering
>> >>> challenges using high-performance computing. Stanford University is
> the
>> >>> AHPCRC lead organization with oversight from the Army Research
>> >>> Laboratory.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for his summer courses, Farhat is optimistic. "Let's remember," he
>> >>> points
>> >>>
>> >>> out, "This was a two-month summer project that evolved because a few
>> >>> smart
>> >>> people asked some good questions. I'm always amazed by what the
> students
>> >>> accomplish in these courses, but this was something special. Each
>> >>> year
> it
>> >>> seems to get better and more impressive."
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrew Myers is associate director of communications for the Stanford
>> >>> School
>> >>>
>> >>> of Engineering.
>> >>>
>> >>> Video
>> >>>
>> >>> Watch: Stanford Course Yields Touchscreen Braille
>> >>> Writer<https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10100361023253469>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thursday, October 6, 2011
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
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>
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-- 
Kaiti

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 23:26:43 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:26:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>

Hi,
You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do the 
work for you.
Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific 
calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc; after 
all don't sighted students do it in print?
If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to use 
braille and your brailler!
Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you 
dictate it.
In this way, you help them transcribe your work.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course

Hi Bridget,

I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
disability services people want me to learn math player and do
everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?

Thanks,


On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a friend
> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any assignments
> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to 
> go.
> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>
> Best of luck
>
> Bridget
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>


-- 
Kaiti

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 23:34:45 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:34:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com><CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com><197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE5A345FF38740BA997320E44464D444@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
That is true. But she needs a way to turn in homework and take tests.
For that she needs a reader and may need the standard calculator.
I think she could do the work by hand on the brailler and dictate her work 
to a reader; same with homework, unless she prints the homework out in print 
for the professor.

But, yes talking to the professor is key first before working out any 
accomodations.

Also, in most test situations, you cannot use your own equipment. I don't 
think blind students get to use their own devices just cause they got 
braille. You have to use a school pc for it or a school issued reader. This 
makes sense to me since you can easily cheat using a braille note or braille 
sense.

But, yes the dss is otherwise overstepping themselves.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 1:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course

Hi Kaiti,
First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
their boundaries.
Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
with the problems yourself.
I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
learn best.
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is 
> not
> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate 
> what
> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator however, 
> I
> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are 
> playing
> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able o
> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and 
> they
> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers 
> of
> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
> ideas come through.
>
> Bridget
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bridget,
>>
>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>> friend
>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>> assignments
>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>> best
>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>> the
>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>> go.
>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 23:39:54 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:39:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <6D73CBBC-AE71-4CD0-AA6A-D79AA336DC48@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com><CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com><197D1F9C-4430-48F5-B4E8-167A6B0D0EFF@aol.com><CALAYQJDqWdd2uQZmXhQAX7m1_YmCZYodXUk7dR+XFEZRxBV-tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6D73CBBC-AE71-4CD0-AA6A-D79AA336DC48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C328AC26FB0481DB3B54394BDC664A9@OwnerPC>

Mauricioo,
a Braille sense is another electronic notetaker like a braille note or 
pacmate if you heard of them.
It is  probably a foot long and weighs a few pounds. It can speak to you or 
you can use a braille display built in. It’s a pc for blind people. It will 
help you write/edit documents, has a calendar, calculator, planner, and 
connects to the internet.

Hth,
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mauricio Almeida
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 1:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course



I could not agree more with what is being said here. A disabilities office 
always suggests tools and highly encourages mechanisms which they deem best 
and while I would agree with then on math player myself for being techy, you 
are the one who should be making this decision as the independent learner 
you are.
On a separate note: Would you give me information on this braille sense 
device?
As you may or not know, many things that are available in the United states 
are either not available or priced in the same level as cars and houses in 
Brasil, so i happen to have no idea what this device does, and as I am 
pursuing a psychology degree myself and will most likely need a device for 
interacting with stats, information on this could greatly benefit me.

On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Kaiti,
> First of all, your disability services office should not be telling
> you what accommodations to use for any of your courses. They can make
> suggestions, but ultimately it is between you and your professor to
> decide what accommodations you will use. If they are trying to order
> you to use a certain set of accommodations, they are overstepping
> their boundaries.
> Second, have you talked to your professor about what is actually
> required for the class? I ask this because I am skeptical that you
> will actually need a graphing calculator. In psychology stats courses,
> at least, the most complicated mathematical operation required is a
> square root, which I'm sure your Braille Sense can handle. I can't
> imagine what calculations would be required that your Braille Sense
> can't do. Working on your Braille Sense gives you much more
> independent access than does working with a reader, and is much better
> for your learning in my opinion, since you are actually interacting
> with the problems yourself.
> I'll write more later when I have more time, but please, please
> communicate directly with your professor and don't worry about what
> your disability office is saying. You don't need to do anything they
> suggest that you aren't comfortable with and you alone know how you
> learn best.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> i understand how you are feeling I do not believe that you should be
>> expected to transcribe all of you work I have played that game and it is 
>> not
>> practical. i also completely agree that you should not have to dictate 
>> what
>> you want to put in to the calculator. Furthermore, I have a limited
>> background in the BrailleSense meaning i know it has a calculator 
>> however, I
>> do not know how far you can o with it. That being said I would be highly
>> annoyed with your disabilities office. It sounds to me like they are 
>> playing
>> assistive technology specialist and failing. Your college should be able 
>> o
>> find a way to get you work transcribed. I attend Dominican College and 
>> they
>> help me with transcription all the time. I am still looking in to this
>> because it is everywhere and so may people are faced with the challengers 
>> of
>> college math. Let me see what other ideas I can come up with. I hope mor
>> ideas come through.
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bridget,
>>>
>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>> friend
>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. 
>>>> I
>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>> assignments
>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>> best
>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>> the
>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way 
>>>> to
>>>> go.
>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck
>>>>
>>>> Bridget
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 23:42:50 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:42:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
they're just going to do it for me.

I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.


On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do the
>
> work for you.
> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc; after
>
> all don't sighted students do it in print?
> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to use
>
> braille and your brailler!
> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
> dictate it.
> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>
> Hi Bridget,
>
> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>> friend
>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>> assignments
>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>> go.
>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>
>> Best of luck
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 23:55:07 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:55:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYwCFNt9J_bP-uDry+-B_O=VVk7E9Wi3tQOJL9ejHj68A@mail.gmail.com>

Mauricio,

If you would like more information about the BrailleSense you can go
to www.hims-inc.com.
I use a BrailleSense On-Hand and have loved it so far.  They're pretty
easy to learn just through trial and error too, as long as you are at
least somewhat techy so you shouldn't have a problem there.  :)

On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
> found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
> know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
> equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
> don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
> person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
> equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
> just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
> telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
> they're just going to do it for me.
>
> I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
> don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
> schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
> 22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
> scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
> as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
> keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
> tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
> calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
> back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
> high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
> I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
> out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
> qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do
>> the
>>
>> work for you.
>> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
>> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
>> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc;
>> after
>>
>> all don't sighted students do it in print?
>> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to
>> use
>>
>> braille and your brailler!
>> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
>> dictate it.
>> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>
>> Hi Bridget,
>>
>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>> friend
>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>> assignments
>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>> best
>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>> the
>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>> go.
>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 23:57:02 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 16:57:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBS6nz3w8HEJLzZeRmBKbz_nPAoyb3-GU_vzCjmS0gcKg@mail.gmail.com>

Again, you won't be seeing anything nearly as complicated as a matrix
in psych stats. All the math required for psych stats is basic
algebra, or maybe not even that.
I agree, if you're taking 22 credits and already have the foundation
in basic math, then keep it simple and just write your assignments in
Word, with the Braille Sense available for your own scratch work
(which you don't need to turn in). From your prior posts, it sounds
like your math knowledge is strong enough that you won't need a tutor.
If you find yourself struggling, though, you can always get one
mid-semester. BTW I will tutor blind students for free. (I charge a
fee to tutor sighted students, but because I know blind tutors for
blind students are in very short supply, I am willing to offer
tutoring as a service to the blind community).
Again, talk to your professor, but if you already have a Braille Sense
you probably won't need to also rent an inaccessible graphing
calculator.
As for test-taking: Many professors will let blind students use their
own equipment; you just have to ask. In fact, I only had one professor
(in two years of undergrad and all of grad school) refuse to let me
take my tests either on my Braille Note or on my laptop in the
classroom. On one hand, maybe it's unfair to let a blind student take
tests on their own device, but on the other hand, it's also not quite
fair to make a blind student use unfamiliar equipment or test in a
separate room from everyone else. Also, I think many professors just
would rather not deal with the hassle of messing with disability
services and would prefer to just administer the testing
accommodations themselves, and if all they have to do is email us the
test or put it on a thumb drive, it's much easier on them.
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
> found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
> know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
> equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
> don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
> person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
> equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
> just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
> telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
> they're just going to do it for me.
>
> I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
> don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
> schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
> 22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
> scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
> as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
> keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
> tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
> calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
> back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
> high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
> I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
> out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
> qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do
>> the
>>
>> work for you.
>> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
>> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
>> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc;
>> after
>>
>> all don't sighted students do it in print?
>> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to
>> use
>>
>> braille and your brailler!
>> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
>> dictate it.
>> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>
>> Hi Bridget,
>>
>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>> friend
>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>> assignments
>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>> best
>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>> the
>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>> go.
>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 00:00:24 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:00:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYwCFNt9J_bP-uDry+-B_O=VVk7E9Wi3tQOJL9ejHj68A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYwCFNt9J_bP-uDry+-B_O=VVk7E9Wi3tQOJL9ejHj68A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD34D775-5EC0-413F-8C13-A7084AAD8A23@gmail.com>

hello,

thank you for the link.
I'd like to believe I am at least some what techy:D so i'll probably have fun learning about it.

mauricio
On Jan 6, 2013, at 6:55 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mauricio,
> 
> If you would like more information about the BrailleSense you can go
> to www.hims-inc.com.
> I use a BrailleSense On-Hand and have loved it so far.  They're pretty
> easy to learn just through trial and error too, as long as you are at
> least somewhat techy so you shouldn't have a problem there.  :)
> 
> On 1/6/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley,
>> 
>> I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
>> found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
>> know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
>> equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
>> don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
>> person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
>> equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
>> just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
>> telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
>> they're just going to do it for me.
>> 
>> I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
>> don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
>> schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
>> 22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
>> scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
>> as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
>> keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
>> tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
>> calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
>> back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
>> high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
>> I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
>> out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
>> qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do
>>> the
>>> 
>>> work for you.
>>> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
>>> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
>>> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc;
>>> after
>>> 
>>> all don't sighted students do it in print?
>>> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to
>>> use
>>> 
>>> braille and your brailler!
>>> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
>>> dictate it.
>>> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>> 
>>> Hi Bridget,
>>> 
>>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>>> friend
>>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>>> assignments
>>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>>> best
>>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>>> the
>>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>>> go.
>>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Best of luck
>>>> 
>>>> Bridget
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Justin
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 00:09:00 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:09:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com><815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com><CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com><6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A36300BC6F6458E8035D38471531D31@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Does your school offer free tutors? Mine did.
You're right you could type your work. iIts too bad the school won't hire an 
aid to help transcribe work.
If you can tell a reader how to do the problem, that seems fine. you don't 
have to know
all button locations.
For instance tell them to type five square route button.
A classmate may also be able to explain the
buttons to you as well.
Hope it works out.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 6:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course

Hi Ashley,

I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
they're just going to do it for me.

I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.


On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do 
> the
>
> work for you.
> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc; 
> after
>
> all don't sighted students do it in print?
> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to 
> use
>
> braille and your brailler!
> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
> dictate it.
> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>
> Hi Bridget,
>
> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>> friend
>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>> assignments
>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My best
>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along the
>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>> go.
>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>
>> Best of luck
>>
>> Bridget
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 00:24:37 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 17:24:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing With the Author's Guild?
In-Reply-To: <64E0E0F9A68D4072AB7B1FD2F2F96AA4@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <64E0E0F9A68D4072AB7B1FD2F2F96AA4@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <113D9032-9E8A-4308-9544-6B565602FEB2@gmail.com>

Brandon,
I know plenty of blind people who are lucky to read five books a year.
Z Conversely, I know plenty of sighted people who read just about as much, or more, then you do. I don't think blind people, on average, read more than the average person who can see. If anything, I would say that, because a lot of my blind acquaintances don't know braille very well, or at all, they probably read a below-average amount of books per month, or year, or whatever. So, by my reckoning, you are going to have a very hard time convincing the authors Guild that blind people are, by nature, these avid readers who Reedway more than their sighted friends. Even if, by some miracle of statistics, you were able to find what you were looking for… It wouldn't be enough to convince them. Unfortunately, I think that history has shown us this will only resolve itself in the courts. But, for what it's worth, I hope I'm wrong.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:16 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I've been reading up on why the Kindle device has not dived completely into tts and I'm wondering if anyone has ever told the authors' guild how many books they read a week?
> I've talked to many of my friends and by far, those who are blind read more than those who are sighted.
> Just for kicks, how many books does everyone on here read each month? I read at least 12 books a month, and I tend to stay away from the 350-400 pagers as they don't develop as well as the 900-1200 page books in my opinion. I read about 4 1000 page books a week and that is my lowest number.
> I'm a full-time music student and don't even spend time devoted to reading. If I was a literature or librarian student, I'm sure my reading would be quite more. I wouldn't consider myself an avid reader except when looking at this website:
> http://library.blogs.delaware.gov/2012/08/05/q-how-many-books-does-the-average-american-read-a-year/
> 
> I see that 15 books is how many books the average sighted person reads a year!
> This must make me some kind of excessive book nerd or something with 144 books a year.
> I know if Kindle became as good as one of the Braille Plusses or something of that nature, I would gladly choose to pay for my books through that rather than going on bookshare. (Although my book reading would probably go down).
> I am perfectly happy with Bookshare, although I don't really like it when there is book 1, book 2, book 4 and book 5 in the series only. That means I have to go onto Kindle, get the book, convert it to HTML and transfer it onto my unit before I can get book 3, rather than the 1 click thing I have with Bookshare.
> This actually makes me wonder if pursuing Kindle is worth it? I really like paying $50 a year for bookshare LOL... I am totally out of the loop when it comes to new releases, but there are so many books, I am never nearly out of books.
> But if the author's guild was told how many books a blind person reads vs a sighted person thanks to TTS, would it make a difference?
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 00:46:56 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:46:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com><1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage><9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C4322DC8899467DACAA56549F9905AA@OwnerPC>

I agree with you Kirt; you need to do it efficiently; with kids, I'd likely 
use an assistant otherwise they will shout out all at once and it could get 
unorderly.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:35 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] giving a presentation

Sophie,
I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have 
people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has 
already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the room 
to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to 
help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised, 
> or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am 
> going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone 
> and color coded.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>
>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name 
>> instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending 
>> on the room size.
>>
>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Jason Meddaugh
>> A T Guys
>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>> (269) 216-4798
>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" 
>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>
>>
>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>
>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted 
>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the 
>>> end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a 
>>> sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral 
>>> of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was 
>>> wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would 
>>> be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second 
>>> semester!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 02:51:19 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 21:51:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
Message-ID: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss, office.
But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through them.

I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all students.
I was wanting to know about this option.
I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best with a human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since bold or italics mean vocab or important terms.

I like to know all options though.
What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are they in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and  Nook.

I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can anyone explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the ebook have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
Is epub accessible?

Thanks.

Ashley

From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 03:24:36 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:24:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] plain text, drop box, pages. can it be done?
Message-ID: <A55CA01F-83B7-47D2-94C0-95005879123B@gmail.com>

i have been working with pages, and i figured out that i can not only email things to myself, but i can put the things that i write in my drop box. so here is my question. Can I copy things to my plain text, if so, how is it done? I would have to transfer things from pages. 
Thanks
LaVonnya.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

From zdreicer at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 03:38:43 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 20:38:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Accessible-iOS Instructions for uploading docs from
	the iPhone Pages app
Message-ID: <2A16F1476A974EE7BFD32062D275BC81@ZachlaptopPC>

I believe this will answer someone’s question that was posed a few minutes ago...

Sent from my Acer Aspire As5733

From: DrV 
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 9:03 AM
To: accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com 
Subject: Accessible-iOS Instructions for uploading docs from the iPhone Pages app

Instructions for uploading docs from the iPhone Pages app:


With the Pages doc open, double tap on the “tools” icon in the upper right hand corner.

Scroll down & select “Share and Print” (double click).

Scroll down & select “Open in Another App” (double click).

Scroll down & select the format you want to use (1st option is Pages, 2nd option is PDF, 3rd option is WORD) (double click on the one you want. (Note voice over will read the icons first (Pages, PDF, WORD), then if you keep swiping it will read the words “Pages, PDF, WORD” again.  You need to double tap on the icon (what voiceover speaks 1st; the 2nd time you hear the options is not an icon, but rather a label for sighted folks & double tapping on the latter does not work.



Double tap on the format you want to use & you will hear “open in another app; cancel”

Now scroll down to “Choose App”

>From her the various apps you can save into appear & will bedifferent for everyone depending on the apps on your i-device. In mine “Open in DropBox” appears first.

Double tap on DropBox & you will hear “DropBox; save to DropBox; cancel”

Scroll down to “name” & you can rename you doc if you choose, then scroll down “DropBox” (this come right after “Destination”

That open DropBox & you will hear “Choose a Destination”

>From here scroll down until you find the folder in your DropBox that you want to place you document in; double click on that folder, then scroll down to “choose” at the bottom right-hand corner of this field – double click on “choose” & you will hear “Save to DropBox; cancel”

Now swipe over to the “Save” button in the upper right-hand corner & double click & now you have successfully uploaded your desired document to your DropBox!



Same process works for the iPad.



Best wishes,

Eric



---------------
On Jan 5, 2013, at 20:56, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:


  Can you walk me through the solution to that problem please? I haven't been able to figure it out.

  Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

  On Jan 5, 2013, at 8:22 PM, DrV <pumpkinracer at gmail.com> wrote:


    Works great. You can open DropBox WORD docs in Pages & save Pages docs into DropBox as Pages docs, WORD docs, or PDFs

    --------



    On Jan 5, 2013, at 17:34, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:



      Hello list, hope everyone has have a great new year! I am wondering if pages and dropbox will work together and are compatible? If so, what document types can be used in pages?



      Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver



      -- 

      To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com



      To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com



      To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com

      To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

      accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com

      For more options, visit this group at

      http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en



    -- 

    To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com



    To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com



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    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

    accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com

    For more options, visit this group at

    http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en






  -- 
  To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com

  To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com

  To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
  accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
  For more options, visit this group at
  http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en



-- 
To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com
 
To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com
 
To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en
 
 

From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 03:58:39 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:58:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Accessible-iOS Instructions for uploading docs
	from the iPhone Pages app
In-Reply-To: <2A16F1476A974EE7BFD32062D275BC81@ZachlaptopPC>
References: <2A16F1476A974EE7BFD32062D275BC81@ZachlaptopPC>
Message-ID: <1691502B-E709-4201-8800-902650E5408F@gmail.com>

thanks. i got it. i think i may have sent them an email. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 6, 2013, at 22:38, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe this will answer someone’s question that was posed a few minutes ago...
> 
> Sent from my Acer Aspire As5733
> 
> From: DrV 
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 9:03 AM
> To: accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Accessible-iOS Instructions for uploading docs from the iPhone Pages app
> 
> Instructions for uploading docs from the iPhone Pages app:
> 
> 
> With the Pages doc open, double tap on the “tools” icon in the upper right hand corner.
> 
> Scroll down & select “Share and Print” (double click).
> 
> Scroll down & select “Open in Another App” (double click).
> 
> Scroll down & select the format you want to use (1st option is Pages, 2nd option is PDF, 3rd option is WORD) (double click on the one you want. (Note voice over will read the icons first (Pages, PDF, WORD), then if you keep swiping it will read the words “Pages, PDF, WORD” again.  You need to double tap on the icon (what voiceover speaks 1st; the 2nd time you hear the options is not an icon, but rather a label for sighted folks & double tapping on the latter does not work.
> 
> 
> 
> Double tap on the format you want to use & you will hear “open in another app; cancel”
> 
> Now scroll down to “Choose App”
> 
> From her the various apps you can save into appear & will bedifferent for everyone depending on the apps on your i-device. In mine “Open in DropBox” appears first.
> 
> Double tap on DropBox & you will hear “DropBox; save to DropBox; cancel”
> 
> Scroll down to “name” & you can rename you doc if you choose, then scroll down “DropBox” (this come right after “Destination”
> 
> That open DropBox & you will hear “Choose a Destination”
> 
> From here scroll down until you find the folder in your DropBox that you want to place you document in; double click on that folder, then scroll down to “choose” at the bottom right-hand corner of this field – double click on “choose” & you will hear “Save to DropBox; cancel”
> 
> Now swipe over to the “Save” button in the upper right-hand corner & double click & now you have successfully uploaded your desired document to your DropBox!
> 
> 
> 
> Same process works for the iPad.
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> On Jan 5, 2013, at 20:56, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Can you walk me through the solution to that problem please? I haven't been able to figure it out.
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
>  On Jan 5, 2013, at 8:22 PM, DrV <pumpkinracer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>    Works great. You can open DropBox WORD docs in Pages & save Pages docs into DropBox as Pages docs, WORD docs, or PDFs
> 
>    --------
> 
> 
> 
>    On Jan 5, 2013, at 17:34, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>      Hello list, hope everyone has have a great new year! I am wondering if pages and dropbox will work together and are compatible? If so, what document types can be used in pages?
> 
> 
> 
>      Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> 
> 
>      -- 
> 
>      To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>      To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>      To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
> 
>      To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> 
>      accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
>      For more options, visit this group at
> 
>      http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en
> 
> 
> 
>    -- 
> 
>    To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>    To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>    To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
> 
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> 
>    accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
>    For more options, visit this group at
> 
>    http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -- 
>  To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com
> 
>  To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
>  To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>  accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>  For more options, visit this group at
>  http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com
> 
> To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com
> 
> To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:18:04 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:18:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,

Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.

Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.

On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
> office.
> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
> them.
>
> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
> students.
> I was wanting to know about this option.
> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best with a
> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since bold
> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>
> I like to know all options though.
> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are they
> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
> Nook.
>
> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can anyone
> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the ebook
> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
> Is epub accessible?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:24:16 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:24:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>

The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page numbers are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to know what you're downloading before you download it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ashley,
> 
> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
> 
> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
> 
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>> office.
>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
>> them.
>> 
>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>> students.
>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best with a
>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since bold
>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>> 
>> I like to know all options though.
>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are they
>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
>> Nook.
>> 
>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can anyone
>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the ebook
>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>> Is epub accessible?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:34:43 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:34:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E627E7A-CDC6-48FB-8F9E-D92971F16CFE@gmail.com>

that is true.
some markings are different, but i do find the service to be very helpful nonetheless:)

mauricio
On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page numbers are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to know what you're downloading before you download it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ashley,
>> 
>> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
>> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
>> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
>> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
>> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
>> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
>> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
>> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
>> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
>> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
>> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
>> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
>> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>> 
>> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
>> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
>> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
>> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
>> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
>> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
>> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
>> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
>> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
>> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
>> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
>> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>> 
>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>>> office.
>>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
>>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>>> students.
>>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best with a
>>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since bold
>>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>> 
>>> I like to know all options though.
>>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are they
>>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
>>> Nook.
>>> 
>>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can anyone
>>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the ebook
>>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>>> Is epub accessible?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:38:04 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:38:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing With the Author's Guild?
In-Reply-To: <113D9032-9E8A-4308-9544-6B565602FEB2@gmail.com>
References: <64E0E0F9A68D4072AB7B1FD2F2F96AA4@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<113D9032-9E8A-4308-9544-6B565602FEB2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fboj0bvOodYOBdr6jd7dWfkJGZO091u15cGW_YvHkw8xQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brandon,

I see what Kirt is saying and odds are the bookworm trait is totally
separate from vision vs no vision, but an argument you could try would
be to bring up how many people use services such as Bookshare, Reading
Ally, and even Web Braille for accessible books.  Every one of those
people is a consumer that the Amazon company is missing out on simply
because they don't have TTS, which is really a dumb reason to exclude
a good-sized chunk of people like that.  I guess Amazon is such a big
company that they may not care about the business they are not getting
since they already get so much, but it's an argument that might fit,
and if it will get us one more option for reading then why not try it?

That would be an interesting study though.  Through high school I was
the same way, although since I've started college I've been pretty
much all course-reading and very little fun reading, which is really
sad considering how much I used to read on a yearly basis.

On 1/6/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brandon,
> I know plenty of blind people who are lucky to read five books a year.
> Z Conversely, I know plenty of sighted people who read just about as much,
> or more, then you do. I don't think blind people, on average, read more than
> the average person who can see. If anything, I would say that, because a lot
> of my blind acquaintances don't know braille very well, or at all, they
> probably read a below-average amount of books per month, or year, or
> whatever. So, by my reckoning, you are going to have a very hard time
> convincing the authors Guild that blind people are, by nature, these avid
> readers who Reedway more than their sighted friends. Even if, by some
> miracle of statistics, you were able to find what you were looking for… It
> wouldn't be enough to convince them. Unfortunately, I think that history has
> shown us this will only resolve itself in the courts. But, for what it's
> worth, I hope I'm wrong.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:16 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I've been reading up on why the Kindle device has not dived completely
>> into tts and I'm wondering if anyone has ever told the authors' guild how
>> many books they read a week?
>> I've talked to many of my friends and by far, those who are blind read
>> more than those who are sighted.
>> Just for kicks, how many books does everyone on here read each month? I
>> read at least 12 books a month, and I tend to stay away from the 350-400
>> pagers as they don't develop as well as the 900-1200 page books in my
>> opinion. I read about 4 1000 page books a week and that is my lowest
>> number.
>> I'm a full-time music student and don't even spend time devoted to
>> reading. If I was a literature or librarian student, I'm sure my reading
>> would be quite more. I wouldn't consider myself an avid reader except when
>> looking at this website:
>> http://library.blogs.delaware.gov/2012/08/05/q-how-many-books-does-the-average-american-read-a-year/
>>
>> I see that 15 books is how many books the average sighted person reads a
>> year!
>> This must make me some kind of excessive book nerd or something with 144
>> books a year.
>> I know if Kindle became as good as one of the Braille Plusses or something
>> of that nature, I would gladly choose to pay for my books through that
>> rather than going on bookshare. (Although my book reading would probably
>> go down).
>> I am perfectly happy with Bookshare, although I don't really like it when
>> there is book 1, book 2, book 4 and book 5 in the series only. That means
>> I have to go onto Kindle, get the book, convert it to HTML and transfer it
>> onto my unit before I can get book 3, rather than the 1 click thing I have
>> with Bookshare.
>> This actually makes me wonder if pursuing Kindle is worth it? I really
>> like paying $50 a year for bookshare LOL... I am totally out of the loop
>> when it comes to new releases, but there are so many books, I am never
>> nearly out of books.
>> But if the author's guild was told how many books a blind person reads vs
>> a sighted person thanks to TTS, would it make a difference?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:38:44 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 23:38:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <3C4322DC8899467DACAA56549F9905AA@OwnerPC>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<3C4322DC8899467DACAA56549F9905AA@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DLnzkc18U5XQv2EuSMnMgrwucayR=UAS7axOshPLKfzAg@mail.gmail.com>

It was more of an experiment than anything.  I just wanted to see if
it would work.  It didn't.  I think it could with middle schoolers
though.  It's up to you what you want to do.  I think both methods
have their benefits.

On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree with you Kirt; you need to do it efficiently; with kids, I'd likely
>
> use an assistant otherwise they will shout out all at once and it could get
>
> unorderly.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:35 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>
> Sophie,
> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the room
> to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to
> help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand raised,
>>
>> or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am
>> going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone
>> and color coded.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their name
>>>
>>> instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending
>>> on the room size.
>>>
>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>> A T Guys
>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>> (269) 216-4798
>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>
>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at the
>>>>
>>>> end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a
>>>> sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the moral
>>>>
>>>> of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I was
>>>>
>>>> wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would
>>>> be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their second
>>>>
>>>> semester!
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:45:37 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <4E627E7A-CDC6-48FB-8F9E-D92971F16CFE@gmail.com>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
	<4E627E7A-CDC6-48FB-8F9E-D92971F16CFE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaaVVyG3GzXHKXnxZGMc6BdJ3LPf261Y1x=83X93VZ5ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

Whenever I've used the bookshare files for citations I've explained
that the page markings are not always the same to the professors or
teachers beforehand.  In my experiences every teacher/prof has been
okay with it since the only thing different has been the page number.
However, I haven't done major research or anything like that with a
bookshare file yet, (Mainly just English essays about books we read
for class and independent reading), so if that's the case I'd get why
you would need more precise page numbers.  .

On 1/7/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> that is true.
> some markings are different, but i do find the service to be very helpful
> nonetheless:)
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page
>> numbers are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to
>> know what you're downloading before you download it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ashley,
>>>
>>> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
>>> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
>>> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
>>> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
>>> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
>>> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
>>> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
>>> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
>>> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
>>> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
>>> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
>>> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
>>> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>>>
>>> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
>>> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
>>> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
>>> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
>>> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
>>> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
>>> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
>>> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
>>> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
>>> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
>>> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
>>> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>>>> office.
>>>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone;
>>>> for
>>>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going
>>>> through
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>>>> students.
>>>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>>>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best
>>>> with a
>>>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>>>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since
>>>> bold
>>>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>>>
>>>> I like to know all options though.
>>>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are
>>>> they
>>>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>>>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader,
>>>> and
>>>> Nook.
>>>>
>>>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can
>>>> anyone
>>>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the
>>>> ebook
>>>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>>>> Is epub accessible?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:53:07 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:53:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DLnzkc18U5XQv2EuSMnMgrwucayR=UAS7axOshPLKfzAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<3C4322DC8899467DACAA56549F9905AA@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DLnzkc18U5XQv2EuSMnMgrwucayR=UAS7axOshPLKfzAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAeYg4WjN_vhY30jj3GnyidBeFRXX8ygT-7mpoXH++Vsg@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder if it would work if you talked with the teacher beforehand
and asked him/her to announce to the kids that they needed to call out
their names instead of raising their hands? Maybe if the teacher is on
board and supports the alternative technique the kids will feel
comfortable with it too.
I agree there's no need for rebellious independence, but teaching
students to respond in a way that's accessible to the blind, I think,
helps reinforce the educational message of the presentation that blind
people can achieve similar results by doing things a little
differently.
Also, one of our NFB members, Adrienne Asch, is a blind professor and
she uses a slightly different technique for discussion leading. She
has the first student call out their name and be recognized, but then
asks them to call on the next student who is raising his/her hand. The
second student in turn calls on the third, and so on. I haven't tried
this method yet but she says that her students really enjoy it and
even ask their professors in other classes to do it too. It might be a
bit complicated for young kids, though.
BTW when I give blindness presentations, instead of listing a whole
bunch of courtesy rules for what to do when you meet a blind person, I
tell them that there are really only two rules: (1) treat the blind
person normally, like you would anyone else, and (2) if you think they
might need help, or don't know how to help, *ask* if they need help
instead of just assuming they do or deciding how to help. I think
these two things pretty much cover all the courtesy rules, and if
people feel like they have to do things a very particular way, it just
makes things awkward for them. I also try to point out similarities
between their interests, activities, hobbies etc. and my own so they
can see me as pretty much like anyone else.
Arielle

On 1/6/13, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was more of an experiment than anything.  I just wanted to see if
> it would work.  It didn't.  I think it could with middle schoolers
> though.  It's up to you what you want to do.  I think both methods
> have their benefits.
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree with you Kirt; you need to do it efficiently; with kids, I'd
>> likely
>>
>> use an assistant otherwise they will shout out all at once and it could
>> get
>>
>> unorderly.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>
>> Sophie,
>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>> room
>> to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to
>> help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>> raised,
>>>
>>> or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am
>>> going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone
>>> and color coded.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>> name
>>>>
>>>> instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending
>>>> on the room size.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>> A T Guys
>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a
>>>>> sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the
>>>>> moral
>>>>>
>>>>> of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I
>>>>> was
>>>>>
>>>>> wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would
>>>>> be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their
>>>>> second
>>>>>
>>>>> semester!
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 05:55:15 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 00:55:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics course
In-Reply-To: <3A36300BC6F6458E8035D38471531D31@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+3U9s49YbUgHXxgTJYKL+kMv27g+arLgfutugFueFuwaRckjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<815EBBE3-BD67-46A3-8F50-9340117A34C4@aol.com>
	<CAFja7Fba=JaM-iGRV6EbrvhsDTnM_sc9ZvQW4QG4RX582MiLAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6914C7A1D8204583964D6505F943D537@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FaOTMDgJU=07B2AzrDET2H2-kERPB+1SxQW6Tf=xdwFGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A36300BC6F6458E8035D38471531D31@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYi-UQbZgV3Ffa-q9PYfDPsMuEnRCAp8Kc-Pzv91PHCgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,
I checked my school's version of blackboard and nothing for the course
is up yet.  The stats prof told me a few months ago he was going to
tweak the syllabus a little over break, but I shot him an email hoping
that the changes he wanted to make are either done or close to being
done so I can see what I'm really getting into rather than what the ds
office thinks I'm getting into.

Thankfully, I think they'd let me use my own equipment.  If the prof
is accomodating as he says he is I don't see why he wouldn't, and I
would really prefer to take the tests in class or at least in an
office appointment or something so that he'd be available to answer
questions I might have about the exams.  I haven't had a prof refuse
to let me take tests in class and insist that I schedule them in the
ds office yet, so hopefully my lucky streak will continue.


On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> Does your school offer free tutors? Mine did.
> You're right you could type your work. iIts too bad the school won't hire an
>
> aid to help transcribe work.
> If you can tell a reader how to do the problem, that seems fine. you don't
> have to know
> all button locations.
> For instance tell them to type five square route button.
> A classmate may also be able to explain the
> buttons to you as well.
> Hope it works out.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 6:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>
> Hi Ashley,
>
> I looked into finding a talking calculator, but none of them that I've
> found handle graphing or statistics problems.  It's not that I don't
> know how to use a calculator in it's basic sense, it's just the weird
> equasion buttons like ABC or other things like that I don't get.  I
> don't think those who suggested the conceptual approach meant that the
> person would be doing my work.  If I ask them to plug in a matrix
> equasion with x, y, and z in a specific order, it's the same concept
> just without all the nitty gritty details of each button.  And I'm
> telling the reader the specific equasion to use, so it's not like
> they're just going to do it for me.
>
> I know this is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I really
> don't think I'd have time to go through the work twice with my
> schedule, and I wouldn't have a reliable person to do it.  I'm taking
> 22 credits this semester so unless I take the ds's approach of
> scheduling homework time with a tutor so they can take down my answers
> as I go I am not sure if scheduling would allow for it.  I also am not
> keen on the idea of paying a math tutor when I don't really need
> tutoring, (It's bad enough I have to pay rent on a TI84+ graphing
> calculator which I can't use myself), just some way to get the work
> back to my teacher.  I would love to just do braille as I have done in
> high school, but in picking and choosing my battles it's not something
> I'm willing to make a big deal of.  Worst case scenario I can write
> out in text any signs or things I don't know how to write with the
> qwerty and ask my professor to clarify for future use.
>
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> You need to tell a reader what to press on calculators as they cannot do
>> the
>>
>> work for you.
>> Why not get a talking calculator which looks like the print scientific
>> calculators. Then use a tutor to learn how to do math with it.
>> Also, in terms of transcribing work, you don't have to do it on a pc;
>> after
>>
>> all don't sighted students do it in print?
>> If they use print and scrap paper for their work, you should be able to
>> use
>>
>> braille and your brailler!
>> Just read someone your math problems and they write it in print as you
>> dictate it.
>> In this way, you help them transcribe your work.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Statistics course
>>
>> Hi Bridget,
>>
>> I have a question based on your last email.  I too am starting my
>> stats course next week and am a little worried about my assignments
>> and such.  I had a really old-school braille instructor who taught me
>> to use a Perkins brailler all through high school math, but now my
>> disability services people want me to learn math player and do
>> everything on the computer, which is a little intimidating simply
>> because I've never used the computer for math before.  They want me to
>> do this though since there is no practical way to translate the
>> braille, as we don't have a transcriber or anyone sighted who could
>> convert my answers.  They also want me to sit with someone and tell
>> them which buttons to push every time we use a graphing calculator.  I
>> suggested checking out the stats functions in the BrailleSense
>> calculator as well as AGC, but they claim it doesn't have all the
>> functions my professor wants us to use.  Like the computer, I'm not
>> familiar with print calculators, obviously since I've never used one.
>> I know they have random buttons like ABC and such, but I don't know
>> what those do and wouldn't know when to use them.  I'm not really
>> comfortable going into stats using these things I've never used
>> before.  Would you, or anyone else, have other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> During my first year of college I took college algebra and I have a
>>> friend
>>> who took psychology statistics last year. We are both Braille readers. I
>>> found it was helpful to take notes in my preferred format. Any
>>> assignments
>>> that I needed to turn in I had a scribe for as did she. We both took
>>> advantage of the tutoring  center and all of our accommodations.  My
>>> best
>>> advice would be speak to your professor often, if you need help along
>>> the
>>> way tutoring and direct instruction from the professor are a good way to
>>> go.
>>> I never had a problem with accommodations in any of my math or science
>>> courses and I'm sure you will be fine.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope the New Year is treating you all well!  I have to take a
>>>> Statistics course and haven't gone through this course before.  I was
>>>> wondering if any could give any pointers on how they survived the
>>>> course?  Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.c
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 12:05:02 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 07:05:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-2856607016323528196@unknownmsgid>

I must get lucky, then! :-) Most of the time, when I download books
from book share in BRF formats, the pages are the same. I think it
helps if you have the ISBN number before you download the book, as
this narrows your search down to the book your class is using. If you
can't find the exact book your classes using, but you can find another
version of the same book, you can still do a find command and search
for the first word or two on the page the other students are on.

HTH,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page numbers are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to know what you're downloading before you download it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
>> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
>> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
>> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
>> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
>> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
>> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
>> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
>> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
>> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
>> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
>> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
>> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>>
>> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
>> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
>> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
>> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
>> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
>> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
>> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
>> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
>> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
>> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
>> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
>> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>>> office.
>>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
>>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>>> students.
>>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best with a
>>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since bold
>>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>>
>>> I like to know all options though.
>>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are they
>>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
>>> Nook.
>>>
>>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can anyone
>>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the ebook
>>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>>> Is epub accessible?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From amc05111 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 12:15:27 2013
From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 07:15:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DLnzkc18U5XQv2EuSMnMgrwucayR=UAS7axOshPLKfzAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50e4dc4b.2681ec0a.3d18.ffffda1c@mx.google.com>
	<1DB95D8A982D4989B61A92C33ECA4F0F@jage>
	<9BA76F78-43B1-4AE5-B684-33406C596165@gmail.com>
	<A682ED04-E117-4838-8461-1F265D04E640@gmail.com>
	<3C4322DC8899467DACAA56549F9905AA@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DLnzkc18U5XQv2EuSMnMgrwucayR=UAS7axOshPLKfzAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFPKh9pD9NDicfU1jrWOc_qAYB4tPtSSjc9iY9z3+u=jHFimkg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
When I've had to give speaches I usually have the students call out
there name and there question.

AC

On 1/7/13, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was more of an experiment than anything.  I just wanted to see if
> it would work.  It didn't.  I think it could with middle schoolers
> though.  It's up to you what you want to do.  I think both methods
> have their benefits.
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree with you Kirt; you need to do it efficiently; with kids, I'd
>> likely
>>
>> use an assistant otherwise they will shout out all at once and it could
>> get
>>
>> unorderly.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>
>> Sophie,
>> I would say do whatever is most efficient. If it's practical, just have
>> people in the room call out their names if they have a question, like has
>> already been suggested. Otherwise, if there are so many people in the
>> room
>> to make that approach inefficient, I would suggest just asking someone to
>> help you call on people. No need to be rebellious Lee independent. :-)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i do that too. i have my assistant call on someone with their hand
>>> raised,
>>>
>>> or i have people call out their names. but i have to have help.. i am
>>> going to see about having bell at the end of the ils, that will be tone
>>> and color coded.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 21:00, "Jason Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've used the classic convention method of having someone say their
>>>> name
>>>>
>>>> instead of raising their hand and this usually seems to work, depending
>>>> on the room size.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with the presentation.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Jason Meddaugh
>>>> A T Guys
>>>> Your Assistive Technology Experts
>>>> (269) 216-4798
>>>> http://www.ATGuys.com
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist"
>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "nabs" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:18 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] giving a presentation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear NABSters,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to give a presentation at a middle school chock full of sighted
>>>>> students next Tuesday. It's not a powerpoint, just a speech. But at
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> end of the speech, I'm going to take some questions. I could have a
>>>>> sighted person help me with calling on people, but considering the
>>>>> moral
>>>>>
>>>>> of the speech is that blind kids can do anything sighted kids can, I
>>>>> was
>>>>>
>>>>> wondering if there was a way I could do this by myself. Any help would
>>>>> be majorly appreciated. Good luck to everyone as they start their
>>>>> second
>>>>>
>>>>> semester!
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com
>


From Vyingling at nfb.org  Mon Jan  7 14:53:38 2013
From: Vyingling at nfb.org (Yingling, Valerie)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:53:38 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for users experiencing difficulty with EBSCOhost's
 accessibility
Message-ID: <2E77F7FE85FE99418761668AE1AA779E118842C5@SN2PRD0710MB382.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

EBSCO Publishing recently learned that a number of online research database users have experienced difficulty accessing EBSCOhost with screen readers.  EBSCO is committed to fixing this problem and would like to directly contact users who have encountered inaccessibility with the databases so that technical support staff can duplicate the issue and find a resolution.

If you have experienced difficulty accessing EBSCOhost with a screen reader, please contact me at vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:vyingling at nfb.org> by January 18th.

Thank you,
Valerie

Valerie Yingling
Paralegal
National Federation of the Blind
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: 410-659-9314 ext. 2440
Fax: 410-659-5129
E-mail: Vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:Vyingling at nfb.org>
Web site: www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/>


From netgirl at samobile.net  Mon Jan  7 18:16:39 2013
From: netgirl at samobile.net (Jessica Watson)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:16:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
Message-ID: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a 
traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% 
online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few 
completely online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 18:16:52 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:16:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <-2856607016323528196@unknownmsgid>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
	<-2856607016323528196@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbS6VFTEpwKECodtrJK9xOqt9sPMt_HQM3T6tJ-MkxTkg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes Chris is right, I've done searches with ISBN numbers too and it
works beautifully.
If it's of great importance and you can't find the exact copy of the
book the sighted students are using, finding someone to just go
through the book to find the accurate page numbers shouldn't be too
difficult, especially if you can steer them to the place your citation
is by giving them chapter numbers, the quote's place in the chapter,
(beginning, middle, or end roughly), and key phrases to look for.
It's also helpful if you can sit with your notetaker with them and use
your copy to get them where they need to be.

On 1/7/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I must get lucky, then! :-) Most of the time, when I download books
> from book share in BRF formats, the pages are the same. I think it
> helps if you have the ISBN number before you download the book, as
> this narrows your search down to the book your class is using. If you
> can't find the exact book your classes using, but you can find another
> version of the same book, you can still do a find command and search
> for the first word or two on the page the other students are on.
>
> HTH,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page
>> numbers are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to
>> know what you're downloading before you download it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ashley,
>>>
>>> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
>>> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
>>> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
>>> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
>>> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
>>> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
>>> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
>>> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
>>> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
>>> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
>>> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
>>> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
>>> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>>>
>>> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
>>> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
>>> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
>>> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
>>> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
>>> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
>>> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
>>> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
>>> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
>>> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
>>> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
>>> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>>>
>>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>>>> office.
>>>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone;
>>>> for
>>>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going
>>>> through
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>>>> students.
>>>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>>>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best
>>>> with a
>>>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>>>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since
>>>> bold
>>>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>>>
>>>> I like to know all options though.
>>>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are
>>>> they
>>>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>>>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader,
>>>> and
>>>> Nook.
>>>>
>>>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can
>>>> anyone
>>>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the
>>>> ebook
>>>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>>>> Is epub accessible?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 18:19:37 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:19:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <50eb111f.b497320a.7163.ffff82eaSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
References: <50eb111f.b497320a.7163.ffff82eaSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003b01cded03$8e43df70$aacb9e50$@gmail.com>

Hi there. What are you getting your degree in? I am currently getting my
grad certificate in assistive technology. This is completely online. I have
had nothing but positive interactions with my professors. They give me the
title of the book and if it's not available on Learning Ally or Bard they'll
provide 
 Me with an electronic format. One thing to mmake sure of is that the
elearning management platform is going to be accessible. We use blackboard.
Moodle is also accessible (have used it as both a student and teacher).

Good luck and keep us posted.
Hope 
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:17 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional
college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which
school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools
such as University of Phoenix to name one.  
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 18:29:28 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:29:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
References: <50eb114b.c6c3320a.68bb.ffffbb68SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000301cded04$ee8491d0$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>

Jess, I attend a seminary which is distance learning based. However, I think 
it is emportant to way both the pros and cons of distance learning verses 
triditional learning. If their is any way I can help you, please feel free 
to contact me. goltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Or Skype at smallistbaby1979
I am three courses away from graduating with doctor of theology from 
Andersonville theological seminary. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jessica Watson" <netgirl at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools


> Hi all,
>
> I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a 
> traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% 
> online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely 
> online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  Any assistance 
> is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 18:55:47 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:55:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <000301cded04$ee8491d0$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <50eb114b.c6c3320a.68bb.ffffbb68SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
	<000301cded04$ee8491d0$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO5JKCczVdkqLaMcfzXxE6fThNJXzZj2vjtp-mB0JC64EQ@mail.gmail.com>

To tag off of this topic, I'm thinking about attending Southern
Mississippi's online graduate degree program in teaching foreign
languages. Has anybody heard if this is accessible or not?
Jessica, accessibility depends on the program the school you are
considering uses, as well as the technology you have available. What
state do you live in? Some normal state universities offer online
degrees.
Laurel

On 1/7/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jess, I attend a seminary which is distance learning based. However, I think
>
> it is emportant to way both the pros and cons of distance learning verses
> triditional learning. If their is any way I can help you, please feel free
> to contact me. goltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Or Skype at smallistbaby1979
> I am three courses away from graduating with doctor of theology from
> Andersonville theological seminary. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jessica Watson" <netgirl at samobile.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a
>> traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100%
>> online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely
>>
>> online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  Any assistance
>>
>> is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>


From nightfury19 at verizon.net  Mon Jan  7 19:39:07 2013
From: nightfury19 at verizon.net (Melissa Hambleton)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:39:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
References: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
Message-ID: <003501cded0e$a922af00$0201a8c0@bfa617c5f939410>

If you are wanting a degree then please consider checking out the site:

www.detc.org

this is the Distance Education and Training Council site.

This will tell you which online schools are actually accredited. The last 
time I check University of Phoenix was not and I wouldn't want anyone to pay 
a lot of money and place a lot of time and effort into a school that is not 
accredited. This site above will explain many things to you or any who is 
willing to read it over.

If you are just wanting to have a certification or diploma stating you 
completed a course then, it wouldn't really matter if a school was 
accredited or not.

Melissa
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jessica Watson" <netgirl at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools


> Hi all,
>
> I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a 
> traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% 
> online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely 
> online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  Any assistance 
> is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nightfury19%40verizon.net
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5515 - Release Date: 01/07/13
> 



From kobycox at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:00:48 2013
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:00:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
Message-ID: <4E00E66E-DF4A-4DD8-B4C0-9ADFE9CCCBB0@gmail.com>

Have any of you used the look  tell money reader app with the iPhone? If so how well does It work?
Right back soon,
Koby
Sent from my iPhone

From sparklylicious at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:04:45 2013
From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:04:45 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
Message-ID: <50eb3881.0556420a.22c5.0019@mx.google.com>

I just purchased it.  It works great! I love the fact that it's 
instant!
Hannah

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com
To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:00:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all

Have any of you used the look  tell money reader app with the 
iPhone? If so how well does It work?
Right back soon,
Koby
Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyliciou
s%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:21:36 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 16:21:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <50eb3881.0556420a.22c5.0019@mx.google.com>
References: <50eb3881.0556420a.22c5.0019@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaBU8Xvb7tufGVm4Vkrs7k2+tHct53VRmtXUsTMKCc++Q@mail.gmail.com>

Works pretty well, not a bad app, and handy too.

On 1/7/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just purchased it.  It works great! I love the fact that it's
> instant!
> Hannah
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:00:48 -0600
> Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
>
> Have any of you used the look  tell money reader app with the
> iPhone? If so how well does It work?
> Right back soon,
> Koby
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyliciou
> s%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From zdreicer at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:27:56 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:27:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <4E00E66E-DF4A-4DD8-B4C0-9ADFE9CCCBB0@gmail.com>
References: <4E00E66E-DF4A-4DD8-B4C0-9ADFE9CCCBB0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84F8DBA4-CC84-4BAE-9A66-9DD22F795286@gmail.com>

It works quite well! Also, could you be a bit more specific in your subject lines please? Also, I have not heard from you in a long time, call me!

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:

> Have any of you used the look  tell money reader app with the iPhone? If so how well does It work?
> Right back soon,
> Koby
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:52:05 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (coastergirl92 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:52:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <84F8DBA4-CC84-4BAE-9A66-9DD22F795286@gmail.com>
References: <4E00E66E-DF4A-4DD8-B4C0-9ADFE9CCCBB0@gmail.com>
	<84F8DBA4-CC84-4BAE-9A66-9DD22F795286@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6E6710E7-B9C6-4831-8685-BBECADCD8759@gmail.com>

I want the money reader app but it cost $9.99 so it's too much

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:27 PM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works quite well! Also, could you be a bit more specific in your subject lines please? Also, I have not heard from you in a long time, call me!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Have any of you used the look  tell money reader app with the iPhone? If so how well does It work?
>> Right back soon,
>> Koby
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com


From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:52:08 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:52:08 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <000601cded21$3e388e90$baa9abb0$@com>

Hello Jeff:

Google Play is very much accessible whether it is online with a computer or
on an Android device.
I prefer to use the service on a computer when I sign into Google online.
Once signed in, one of the links at the top is "Play" which will take you to
the Google Play store.
In the Google Play store, I can browse for Android apps, electronic books,
music, and movies; I usually browse for Android apps.
I think Play Books is accessible but I do not know for sure because I use
BLIO for my electronic books.
The selected item can then be requested for download and your Android device
will begin downloading momentarily.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
jeffc4 at lavabit.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:43 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences

Hi all,
Has anyone ever used Google play? If so can you tell me about your
experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying to
decide if i should take advantage of this service from Google, and wanted to
know if there is any accessibility problems.

Thanks

73
kd8qiq
Jeff Crouch



_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 21:58:08 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (coastergirl92 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:58:08 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] online schoolssiritohggles
In-Reply-To: <000301cded04$ee8491d0$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <50eb114b.c6c3320a.68bb.ffffbb68SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
	<000301cded04$ee8491d0$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <F0BEE6BE-7B41-409F-83F9-5C1F6150C2D3@gmail.com>

Does anyone know how to get siritoggles?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2013, at 10:29 AM, "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jess, I attend a seminary which is distance learning based. However, I think it is emportant to way both the pros and cons of distance learning verses triditional learning. If their is any way I can help you, please feel free to contact me. goltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Or Skype at smallistbaby1979
> I am three courses away from graduating with doctor of theology from Andersonville theological seminary. RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Watson" <netgirl at samobile.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com


From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Mon Jan  7 22:41:30 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:41:30 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome To 2013 And The First Djd Invasion Show Of The Year
Message-ID: <d019181cca794d79b37698a477af7853.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

Hi Everyone!
Welcome to 2013, and the first Djd Invasion of the new year!
It's also my return to New York tonight too, as I've spent quite a bit of
time in Orlando Florida with some dear friends of mine, Will Of The WDJm3
show and his wife Selena.
Joine me at 8 PM eastern, after Pop Tops at 7 PM eastern, for another Djd
Invasion show you won't want to miss. Hear about the trip, our usual mix
of pop ACappela country songs and more.
During the show, your requests are always welcome by email at
daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com
Via skype at
audio.accessfm
Or via twitter at
djdrocks
or
audioaccessfm
And to listen, join us at
http://www.audioaccess.fm
either at 7 PM eastern for Dennis and Pop Tops, or at 8 PM for The Djd
Invasion show!
Hope to see you with us either way tonight!
>From David Dunphy



From theweird1 at centurylink.net  Mon Jan  7 22:52:41 2013
From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 16:52:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <003501cded0e$a922af00$0201a8c0@bfa617c5f939410>
References: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
	<003501cded0e$a922af00$0201a8c0@bfa617c5f939410>
Message-ID: <003c01cded29$b3819b30$1a84d190$@centurylink.net>

University of Phoenix is accredited by a couple of organizations.  They are
listed on their site.  But I also would not want to waste time getting a
degree from a place that was "accredited.  But then, I'm not sure being
accredited by whatever organization is worth mjuch anyway.  

I am a very strong believer in online education, and it is the wave of the
future.  They aim more towards the non-traditional student as well.  With
everyones busy lives, and need for continuing education, the traditional way
of getting college credit will need to keep up with the times, and many
online colleges and universities try and focus on just that.  --Original
Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
Hambleton
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:39 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] online schools

If you are wanting a degree then please consider checking out the site:

www.detc.org

this is the Distance Education and Training Council site.

This will tell you which online schools are actually accredited. The last
time I check University of Phoenix was not and I wouldn't want anyone to pay
a lot of money and place a lot of time and effort into a school that is not
accredited. This site above will explain many things to you or any who is
willing to read it over.

If you are just wanting to have a certification or diploma stating you
completed a course then, it wouldn't really matter if a school was
accredited or not.

Melissa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica Watson" <netgirl at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools


> Hi all,
>
> I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a 
> traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% 
> online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely

> online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.  Any assistance 
> is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nightfury19%40verizon.ne
t
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5515 - Release Date: 01/07/13
> 


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net



From theweird1 at centurylink.net  Mon Jan  7 23:01:48 2013
From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:01:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
References: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
Message-ID: <004301cded2a$f9d4bad0$ed7e3070$@centurylink.net>

Liberty online is another.  I am seriously considering a masters in Public
Policy from there.  My concern right now is that it will be accessable.  So
I am going to investigate that.  I would be curious if anyone else has taken
courses or received a degree from the online part of that college.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 12:17 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional
college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which
school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools
such as University of Phoenix to name one.  
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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net



From theweird1 at centurylink.net  Mon Jan  7 23:32:29 2013
From: theweird1 at centurylink.net (Loren Wakefield)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:32:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <004301cded2a$f9d4bad0$ed7e3070$@centurylink.net>
References: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
	<004301cded2a$f9d4bad0$ed7e3070$@centurylink.net>
Message-ID: <000f01cded2f$43275770$c9760650$@centurylink.net>

One other school I know offers degrees at all levels online is the
University of Nebraska.  As a Hawkeye fan it kills me to say it, but their
programs appear to be pretty good.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Loren Wakefield
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:02 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] online schools

Liberty online is another.  I am seriously considering a masters in Public
Policy from there.  My concern right now is that it will be accessable.  So
I am going to investigate that.  I would be curious if anyone else has taken
courses or received a degree from the online part of that college.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 12:17 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional
college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which
school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools
such as University of Phoenix to name one.  
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theweird1%40centurylink.
net


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From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  8 03:38:03 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 22:38:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS2844F16F938FF6B4FB9C406CB240@phx.gbl>

HHHi Jeef:




I've never used google play but I've heard of it from going on to Google's site.
What else can you do besides listen to music and play games?
Thanks for reading this, and have a ood day!
Preston Gaylor

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:44 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Has anyone ever used google play? If so can you tell me about your
> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying to
> diside if i should take advantage of this service from google, and wanted
> to know if there is any accessibility problems.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com


From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 05:45:24 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 21:45:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS2844F16F938FF6B4FB9C406CB240@phx.gbl>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
	<BLU403-EAS2844F16F938FF6B4FB9C406CB240@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001201cded63$5ccb6070$16622150$@com>

In Google Play, you can download apps, buy electronic books, listen and
purchase music, and watch and purchase movies.
Apps categories are music & audio, media & video, entertainment, cards &
casino, arcade & action, brain & puzzle, productivity, communication, travel
& local, tools, books and reference, news & magazine, finance, shopping,
photography, social, business, health & fitness, education, medical, etc.
With Google Play Books, you can find electronic books, newspapers,
magazines, and any other form of informational printed material in
electronic format.
Google Play Music lets you search for music by title, album, artist, or
genre  as well as purchase and listen to music.
Google Play Movies is pretty much the same as Google Play music for the
exception that it is videos and movies.
So do some exploring around the Google Play store and have fun.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 7:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] google play experiences

HHHi Jeef:




I've never used google play but I've heard of it from going on to Google's
site.
What else can you do besides listen to music and play games?
Thanks for reading this, and have a ood day!
Preston Gaylor

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:44 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Has anyone ever used google play? If so can you tell me about your 
> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying 
> to diside if i should take advantage of this service from google, and 
> wanted to know if there is any accessibility problems.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotma
> il.com

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 11:49:56 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 06:49:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <001201cded63$5ccb6070$16622150$@com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
	<BLU403-EAS2844F16F938FF6B4FB9C406CB240@phx.gbl>
	<001201cded63$5ccb6070$16622150$@com>
Message-ID: <1050144291993563181@unknownmsgid>

So it's basically like iTunes for android, run by Google.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2013, at 12:46 AM, Chun Chao <zerone1683 at gmail.com> wrote:

> In Google Play, you can download apps, buy electronic books, listen and
> purchase music, and watch and purchase movies.
> Apps categories are music & audio, media & video, entertainment, cards &
> casino, arcade & action, brain & puzzle, productivity, communication, travel
> & local, tools, books and reference, news & magazine, finance, shopping,
> photography, social, business, health & fitness, education, medical, etc.
> With Google Play Books, you can find electronic books, newspapers,
> magazines, and any other form of informational printed material in
> electronic format.
> Google Play Music lets you search for music by title, album, artist, or
> genre  as well as purchase and listen to music.
> Google Play Movies is pretty much the same as Google Play music for the
> exception that it is videos and movies.
> So do some exploring around the Google Play store and have fun.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] google play experiences
>
> HHHi Jeef:
>
>
>
>
> I've never used google play but I've heard of it from going on to Google's
> site.
> What else can you do besides listen to music and play games?
> Thanks for reading this, and have a ood day!
> Preston Gaylor
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:44 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone ever used google play? If so can you tell me about your
>> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying
>> to diside if i should take advantage of this service from google, and
>> wanted to know if there is any accessibility problems.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> Jeff Crouch
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotma
>> il.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  8 13:00:07 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:00:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone used Psychportal?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbX0zQdf4OqUA6vE6oRzn2HDH0MWMHrCJHA45peG0CYfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FY29vB+ybxNHP38EEyX+JP8y-Vo3XN+=rnKeeCVs_RSKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU404-EAS313068F1D101955BC18E74FDC260@phx.gbl>
	<CAFja7FbX0zQdf4OqUA6vE6oRzn2HDH0MWMHrCJHA45peG0CYfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS191066D76DFDAB7073A0582DC240@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPad

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:08 AM, "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> William, thanks for the info; I wasn't even aware that this is something new.
> I have let my disability services counselor and technology specialist
> know and the three of us are taking a divide and concor approach to
> figuring the portal out since the term is so close.  If it isn't
> accessible they will convert the information to text and I will use
> that along with email like you said.  Although, my prof also sent me
> the book information for the textbook the portal supports, so if it
> comes down to it pretty soon I may talk to her and see if I can buy
> the textbook and have disability services only convert the assignments
> or quizzes that might be on the portal if they are there.
> 
> Cory, I'm majoring in music therapy with a minor in psych and want to
> work with teens who have special needs or addictions.  Haven't decided
> which one yet.  :)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> On 1/5/13, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Good evening,
>> PsychPortal is something fairly new.  However, I can ask around at my
>> disability office since, some of the staff are blind themselves.  A good
>> start, for you, would be to contact your DS office with the same message you
>> provided to us here regarding your question.  Maybe, they can provide you an
>> accommodation where, they retrieve the readings and convert them if needed.
>> Best wishes,
>> William
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:06 PM, "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm Kaiti and I'm a freshman music major and member of the Ohio division.
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if anyone who has taken some psych courses might be
>>> able to vouch for the accessibility of Psychportal.  Unfortunately,
>>> I'm in one of those situations where the semester starts next week and
>>> my prof for abnormal psych just decided which books we are going to
>>> use.  She says that in lieu of a textbook we will be using an online
>>> thing called Psychportal.  I've googled it but can't seem to test the
>>> accessibility as you need a login name and password.  If anyone has
>>> had some experience with it and could tell me how accessible it is I
>>> would appreciate it.
>>> 
>>> By the way, I'm using Windows 7 with Firefox and/or IE and JAWS 13.
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.comGood morning,
i spoke with one of my contacts.  Unfortunately, they can not give any information on the usability of PsychPortal since they never used it.  Have a great day.

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan  8 15:51:35 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:51:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] U.S. proposes minimum sounds for 'quiet cars'
Message-ID: <auto-000092249509@mailfront4.g2host.com>


U.S. proposes minimum sounds for 'quiet cars'

By David Shepardson
The Detroit News


http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130107/AUTO01/301070407/U-S-proposes-mi
nimum-sounds-quiet-cars-?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE


The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is proposing new rules to
require minimum sound levels from electric vehicles, hybrids and other quiet
cars to warn pedestrians.

NHTSA's proposal - required by Congress in 2010 - sets minimum sound levels
for hybrid and electric vehicles to help make all pedestrians, especially
visually impaired people, aware of approaching vehicles.

Electric and hybrid vehicles do not rely on traditional engines and at low
speeds can be very difficult to hear.

NHTSA plans to phase in the new rules starting in the 2016 model year over
three years. It expects the proposal will cost the auto industry about $23
million during the first year.

NHTSA estimates the cost of adding a speaker system to comply with the
requirements to be around $35 per vehicle.

The new rules would also apply to electric motorcycles and heavy-duty
vehicles - despite the opposition of BMW to the motorcycle requirement.

But the rules would not apply to quiet traditional internal combustion
engines or those equipped with "stop-start" fuel-saving technology that
shuts off the motor at intersections. NHTSA said it may in the future opt to
require sounds in those vehicles.

NHTSA estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian
crash is 19 percent higher compared with traditional gas- or diesel-powered
vehicles. For a bicycle crash, it's 38 percent higher.

"Our proposal would allow manufacturers the flexibility to design different
sounds for different makes and models while still providing an opportunity
for pedestrians, bicyclists and the visually impaired to detect and
recognize a vehicle and make a decision about whether it is safe to cross
the street," said NHTSA Administrator David Strickland.

The sounds would need to be detectable under a wide range of street noises
and other ambient background sounds when the vehicle is traveling less than
18 mph.

The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers - the trade group representing
Detroit's Big Three automakers, Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG and others
- praised the flexibility in the rule, but is still reviewing it.

"We understand that the proposal allows for some flexibilities in the
specifics of the simulated sound autos will produce, while avoiding opening
a Pandora's box of sounds. That's how it is in the real world: Some cars
sound differently than others; it can even differ from one brand to the
next," spokesman Wade Newton said. "The alliance will continue working with
National Federation of the Blind, and others, to work toward this being the
model for an international safety standard. In the coming weeks we'll review
the proposal's technical elements to help ensure that the safety standard
meets the needs of the blind, and takes into appropriate consideration
concerns about overall levels of ambient noise."

Automakers told NHTSA not to worry about setting the specific sounds.

Automakers said "they did not believe it was necessary to try to prevent
annoying sounds because manufacturers would not use annoying sounds as alert
sounds because they do not want to annoy their customers," NHTSA said.

NHTSA is considering allowing hybrid and electric vehicles to meet the
minimum sound requirements for the backing scenario with a beeping sound
similar to the sound made by a backing truck, but wants to know "whether
such a sound would be annoying to the public."

NHTSA said at 18 mph and above, vehicles make sufficient noise to allow
pedestrians and bicyclists to detect them without added sound.

NHTSA is allowing automakers to have a significant range of choices about
the sounds it chooses for its vehicles, but the characteristics of the
sounds must meet certain minimum requirements.

NHTSA says each vehicle of the same make and model would need to emit the
same sound or set of sounds.

NHTSA estimates the proposal will lead to 2,800 fewer pedestrian and cyclist
injuries over the life of each model year, compared to vehicles without
sound.

NHTSA has been studying the issue since 2007.

In September 2009, NHTSA's study of 600,000 crashes found hybrid vehicles
are two times more likely than traditional gas-powered vehicles to be in a
pedestrian crash when the vehicle is backing out, slowing or stopping,
starting in traffic, and entering or leaving a parking spot.

NHTSA is working with regulators in Japan and the European Union to set a
single standard for automakers worldwide for minimum sound levels through a
United Nations working group.

In developing the rules, NHTSA staff traveled to the national headquarters
of the National Federation of the Blind in Baltimore, where NHTSA staff were
blindfolded and trained to use a white cane outside on city streets with
blind and visually impaired individuals as guides.

NHTSA officials attempted to navigate city streets and cross at non-signaled
intersections.

dshepardson at detnews.com

(202) 662-8735



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 16:45:19 2013
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 11:45:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations Due
	Wed 1/9
Message-ID: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>

Good morning,

 

If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to 7,
please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to Lisa
Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room at
the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.

 

Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!

 

Thanks,

 

Sean


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan  8 16:56:25 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:56:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} The 2013 Valentines are here!
Message-ID: <auto-000092917021@mailfront3.g2host.com>


><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=16842c3667&e=1296c71151>
>NBP logo
>
>The 2013 print/braille Valentines!
>
>[]
>
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=936946e444&e=1296c71151>
>Detail from the new valentines shows two green pears with small
>NBP's 2013 Valentines!
>
>This year's Valentine is a treat for all the senses!
>
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>
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>touch of braille on it - and a handy decoder on 
>the reverse side to show off the perfect symmetry of the braille code.
>
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=8a6c52a169&e=1296c71151>Large 
>Packs: 32 print/braille Valentines plus envelopes: $14
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=9a47f71696&e=1296c71151>Small 
>Packs: 20 print/braille Valentines plus envelopes: $10
>
>Our other Valentine cards are also still available!
>
>Order at:
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=2d35b07551&e=1296c71151>http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/VAL13-32.html
>
>
>******
>To order any books, send payment to:
>NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
>Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520.
>Or order any of our books online at
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=4bb62e8125&e=1296c71151>http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. 
>
><http://us4.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=ced49438f3&e=1296c71151>Forward 
>to a friend
>
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=b43ccb03f6&e=1296c71151>
>NBP logo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Copyright © 2013 National Braille Press, All rights reserved.
>
>National Braille Press
>88 Saint Stephen St
>Boston, MA 02115
>
><http://nbp.us4.list-manage.com/vcard?u=0150d8e3e15bab5b5433561b9&id=fcec5c2637>Add 
>us to your address book
>
>
>www.nbp.org
>
>
>  Connect with us!

From treyman19 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 17:22:31 2013
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:22:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <000601cded21$3e388e90$baa9abb0$@com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
	<000601cded21$3e388e90$baa9abb0$@com>
Message-ID: <CAEmvByd4NwbmwQTQ2uQPT1-sR_XHy-rXnQ5Gynrn33Vzdz0Sww@mail.gmail.com>

So I am wondering what Android devices are accessible?  I have Apple
products but I am thinking about buying a Android device.

On 1/7/13, Chun Chao <zerone1683 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jeff:
>
> Google Play is very much accessible whether it is online with a computer or
> on an Android device.
> I prefer to use the service on a computer when I sign into Google online.
> Once signed in, one of the links at the top is "Play" which will take you
> to
> the Google Play store.
> In the Google Play store, I can browse for Android apps, electronic books,
> music, and movies; I usually browse for Android apps.
> I think Play Books is accessible but I do not know for sure because I use
> BLIO for my electronic books.
> The selected item can then be requested for download and your Android
> device
> will begin downloading momentarily.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> jeffc4 at lavabit.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:43 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
>
> Hi all,
> Has anyone ever used Google play? If so can you tell me about your
> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying to
> decide if i should take advantage of this service from Google, and wanted
> to
> know if there is any accessibility problems.
>
> Thanks
>
> 73
> kd8qiq
> Jeff Crouch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 18:28:50 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (zerone1683 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:28:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
Message-ID: <1082800960.0.1357669725471.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

Yes.


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  8 19:02:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 14:02:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] playing learning ally books
Message-ID: <00F6927DFE8146A2B3E933AE025125D9@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I use equipment to play books, but wish a backup plan if my equipment fails. Given that my braille Note needs repairs, I suspect my player may need repair sometime.

So, what options are available to play a Learning Ally book via pc? I have windows 7 and the latest jaws, that is jaws 14.
I am looking for free or inexpensive options. Can FS reader play these textbooks?

I know about Learning Ally’s option but perhaps I can use FS reader since I already have it.

Thanks.

Ashley

From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 19:29:35 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (zerone1683 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:29:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
Message-ID: <1082382528.1.1357673369603.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

Most Android devices are accessible to the blind; make sure that the Android version is 4.0 and later.
personally I prefer the Samsung Galaxy series.

C.C. Alan


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 19:32:12 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 14:32:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <1082382528.1.1357673369603.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1082382528.1.1357673369603.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <3487890644812118335@unknownmsgid>

What screen reader do you use if you use an android device, the built
in talkback screen reader or a third party screen reader such as
mobile accessibility?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2013, at 2:30 PM, "zerone1683 at gmail.com" <zerone1683 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Most Android devices are accessible to the blind; make sure that the Android version is 4.0 and later.
> personally I prefer the Samsung Galaxy series.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 19:54:26 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 14:54:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] playing learning ally books
In-Reply-To: <00F6927DFE8146A2B3E933AE025125D9@OwnerPC>
References: <00F6927DFE8146A2B3E933AE025125D9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7193F43B-1016-41F8-9F7F-4A34E44EC45C@aol.com>

Hi Ashley,

You can authorize fs reader as a learning ally player. I use it sometimes and love it.
Do you have an apple device? If so you can download the free learning ally app. I use that with my IPad and love it. I hope this helps.

Bridget 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 2:02 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I use equipment to play books, but wish a backup plan if my equipment fails. Given that my braille Note needs repairs, I suspect my player may need repair sometime.
> 
> So, what options are available to play a Learning Ally book via pc? I have windows 7 and the latest jaws, that is jaws 14.
> I am looking for free or inexpensive options. Can FS reader play these textbooks?
> 
> I know about Learning Ally’s option but perhaps I can use FS reader since I already have it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 21:06:19 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:06:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] playing learning ally books
References: <00F6927DFE8146A2B3E933AE025125D9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <2FDB0AADDC5341769386E2183756475F@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
They also have a free program that you can download from Learning Ally's 
site called Read Here. You have to renew the license each year, but it is 
still free, and you can download it for your PC or MAC or you can download 
the app for your IPhone, IPad, or IPod. You can find it in the My Bookshelf 
area of the Learning Ally site after you log in and find the My Bookshelf 
link. When you get to your bookshelf, it will ask you which type of device 
you want to set up to read Learning Ally's books. I think that they have a 
number of different players that you can authorize to play them also.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 2:02 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] playing learning ally books


> Hi all,
>
> I use equipment to play books, but wish a backup plan if my equipment 
> fails. Given that my braille Note needs repairs, I suspect my player may 
> need repair sometime.
>
> So, what options are available to play a Learning Ally book via pc? I have 
> windows 7 and the latest jaws, that is jaws 14.
> I am looking for free or inexpensive options. Can FS reader play these 
> textbooks?
>
> I know about Learning Ally’s option but perhaps I can use FS reader since 
> I already have it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 01:32:14 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 17:32:14 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <3487890644812118335@unknownmsgid>
References: <1082382528.1.1357673369603.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<3487890644812118335@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <000601cdee09$27fa3dc0$77eeb940$@com>

I currently have an older Android phone using version 2.3, so I use both
Mobile Access and Talkback.
All Android devices running version 4.0 and later have a fully functioning
version of Talkback.
When using Talkback in versions 4.0 and later, make sure that the option
"explore by touch" is activated to enable full functionality.
I will most likely wait to upgrade this summer when my contract comes up.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
nusbaum
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:32 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google play experiences

What screen reader do you use if you use an android device, the built in
talkback screen reader or a third party screen reader such as mobile
accessibility?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2013, at 2:30 PM, "zerone1683 at gmail.com" <zerone1683 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Most Android devices are accessible to the blind; make sure that the
Android version is 4.0 and later.
> personally I prefer the Samsung Galaxy series.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 02:12:08 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:12:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <003b01cded03$8e43df70$aacb9e50$@gmail.com>
References: <50eb111f.b497320a.7163.ffff82eaSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
	<003b01cded03$8e43df70$aacb9e50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5BE62FED1C6A403BA22BD3204E2D2654@OwnerPC>

Hi Hope,
Where are you getting this assistive tech certificate and what sort of 
material is covered?
This is  something  I might consider. Does it prepare you to teach 
technology? Also, I thought you already were teaching; seen you on nobe-l to 
discuss things. You have a masters in spanish, right?
What platform does your school use? Blackboard is quite common.
Thanks.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:19 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi there. What are you getting your degree in? I am currently getting my
grad certificate in assistive technology. This is completely online. I have
had nothing but positive interactions with my professors. They give me the
title of the book and if it's not available on Learning Ally or Bard they'll
provide
Me with an electronic format. One thing to mmake sure of is that the
elearning management platform is going to be accessible. We use blackboard.
Moodle is also accessible (have used it as both a student and teacher).

Good luck and keep us posted.
Hope
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:17 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional
college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which
school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools
such as University of Phoenix to name one.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 02:19:53 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:19:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
	DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>

Hello,
In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
Is there no student banquet this year?
Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair? Is 
there a registeration fee for the meeting?
Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not stay at 
the hotel.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: nabs.president at gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations 
DueWed 1/9

Good morning,



If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to 7,
please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to Lisa
Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room at
the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.



Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!



Thanks,



Sean

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 02:21:27 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:21:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <CAEmvByd4NwbmwQTQ2uQPT1-sR_XHy-rXnQ5Gynrn33Vzdz0Sww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com><000601cded21$3e388e90$baa9abb0$@com>
	<CAEmvByd4NwbmwQTQ2uQPT1-sR_XHy-rXnQ5Gynrn33Vzdz0Sww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12D611CC03EA4627A1BCCB1103568E39@OwnerPC>

I think most android devices have the screen reader talkback, so they're 
accessible.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Trey Bradley
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google play experiences

So I am wondering what Android devices are accessible?  I have Apple
products but I am thinking about buying a Android device.

On 1/7/13, Chun Chao <zerone1683 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jeff:
>
> Google Play is very much accessible whether it is online with a computer 
> or
> on an Android device.
> I prefer to use the service on a computer when I sign into Google online.
> Once signed in, one of the links at the top is "Play" which will take you
> to
> the Google Play store.
> In the Google Play store, I can browse for Android apps, electronic books,
> music, and movies; I usually browse for Android apps.
> I think Play Books is accessible but I do not know for sure because I use
> BLIO for my electronic books.
> The selected item can then be requested for download and your Android
> device
> will begin downloading momentarily.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> jeffc4 at lavabit.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:43 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
>
> Hi all,
> Has anyone ever used Google play? If so can you tell me about your
> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying to
> decide if i should take advantage of this service from Google, and wanted
> to
> know if there is any accessibility problems.
>
> Thanks
>
> 73
> kd8qiq
> Jeff Crouch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Roosevelt Bradley

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 02:36:08 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:36:08 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
 DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>
	<9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley and all,
The NABS meeting is sometimes on Sunday and sometimes on Monday. I'm
not sure why they decided to do it on Monday this year. However when
it's on Monday it has to be a half-day because the gathering-in
meeting is at 5:00 in the same room, so the NABS meeting has to be
done by 3:00 or so in order to give enough time to clean up and
reorganize the room for the great gathering-in meeting.
NABS has not had a student banquet for many years. From my
recollection the main reason is cost. Banquets are very expensive to
put on. Instead NABS has opted to sponsor a lower-cost and less formal
social with a fund-raising auction. This also allows for NABS members
to go out for dinner with friends, affiliate members, etc. before the
social.
Arielle

On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
> Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
> Is there no student banquet this year?
> Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair? Is
> there a registeration fee for the meeting?
> Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not stay at
>
> the hotel.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs.president at gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
> DueWed 1/9
>
> Good morning,
>
>
>
> If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to 7,
> please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to Lisa
> Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
> holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
> resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
> and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
> circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
> lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room at
> the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.
>
>
>
> Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 03:06:35 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 22:06:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
References: fcf12e3f-5ea1-4ed6-aeb1-22ad0b0e772a@samobile.net
Message-ID: <E7E92AE01BE94F19A6A079D4A4329F4B@OwnerPC>

Hello,
I do not recommend it because I think you need to go to class and interact 
with the professors. Discussions in class may help you overcome shyness.

However, accessibility varies from school to school. It depends on the 
platform. I heard of some blind students going to Caplin online; Liberty 
University is a huge online program but also an actual religious school. I'd 
check with the school you are interested in and see what platform they use, 
blackboard, moodle, etc and then ask around about accessibility. Also, costs 
is a factor; I think online schools are like the out of state fees and are 
expensive. But if you take online courses at a maryland state school, you 
would pay in state tuition.
I'm sure many state schools have most if not all classes online, so you 
might want to start with state schools.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:16 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a
traditional college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100%
online?  Which school did you find accessible?  I know of a few
completely online schools such as University of Phoenix to name one.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 03:07:40 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 22:07:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools
In-Reply-To: <003b01cded03$8e43df70$aacb9e50$@gmail.com>
References: <50eb111f.b497320a.7163.ffff82eaSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
	<003b01cded03$8e43df70$aacb9e50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49A9795C87774E87BDF39FBEC2E798A4@OwnerPC>

Hope,
A certificate in assistive tech sounds interesting. Do you plan to use that 
in your career?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Hope Paulos
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:19 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi there. What are you getting your degree in? I am currently getting my
grad certificate in assistive technology. This is completely online. I have
had nothing but positive interactions with my professors. They give me the
title of the book and if it's not available on Learning Ally or Bard they'll
provide
Me with an electronic format. One thing to mmake sure of is that the
elearning management platform is going to be accessible. We use blackboard.
Moodle is also accessible (have used it as both a student and teacher).

Good luck and keep us posted.
Hope
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Watson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:17 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] online schools

Hi all,

I am considering getting my degree online instead of going to a traditional
college.  Have any of you completed a degree that was 100% online?  Which
school did you find accessible?  I know of a few completely online schools
such as University of Phoenix to name one.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 03:15:09 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 22:15:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC><CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C65170A795F4D698B3D31B02D623A06@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Having same page numbers is important for papers. If I signed up for 
bookshare, could I ask them if the page numbers matched the print copy?
I'd want an exact match if at all possible.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Josh Gregory
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 12:24 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school

The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page numbers
are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to know what
you're downloading before you download it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ashley,
>
> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>
> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>
> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>> office.
>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
>> them.
>>
>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>> students.
>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best
>> with a
>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since
>> bold
>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>
>> I like to know all options though.
>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are
>> they
>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
>> Nook.
>>
>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can
>> anyone
>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the
>> ebook
>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>> Is epub accessible?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 03:34:06 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 22:34:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
	DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com><9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEB69739765C4448A1E7464A1E1EF41A@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
Thanks for the explanation. I attended those nice banquets and remember the 
good time of it and the singing
and all that went on there. It had some inspiritational speakers too; oh, 
those days; but as you said it was a while back, but time flies so it seems 
not that far back.

Anyway, there is a four hour meeting; i;'m sure it will be fun and 
informative.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations 
DueWed 1/9

Hi Ashley and all,
The NABS meeting is sometimes on Sunday and sometimes on Monday. I'm
not sure why they decided to do it on Monday this year. However when
it's on Monday it has to be a half-day because the gathering-in
meeting is at 5:00 in the same room, so the NABS meeting has to be
done by 3:00 or so in order to give enough time to clean up and
reorganize the room for the great gathering-in meeting.
NABS has not had a student banquet for many years. From my
recollection the main reason is cost. Banquets are very expensive to
put on. Instead NABS has opted to sponsor a lower-cost and less formal
social with a fund-raising auction. This also allows for NABS members
to go out for dinner with friends, affiliate members, etc. before the
social.
Arielle

On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
> Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
> Is there no student banquet this year?
> Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair? Is
> there a registeration fee for the meeting?
> Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not stay 
> at
>
> the hotel.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs.president at gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
> DueWed 1/9
>
> Good morning,
>
>
>
> If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to 
> 7,
> please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to Lisa
> Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
> holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
> resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
> and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
> circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
> lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room 
> at
> the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.
>
>
>
> Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 03:47:16 2013
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 22:47:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
 DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <EEB69739765C4448A1E7464A1E1EF41A@OwnerPC>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>
	<9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB69739765C4448A1E7464A1E1EF41A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAM6GWxzsyKQ4E=gaxC6acztk7DKc3hybcU-oJDhs0LxZAQbDBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Arielle and Others:
I am still deciding whether I want to attend Washington seminar.
Can reservations only be emailed to Lisa or is there a phone number for her?
I sort of didn't realize tomorrow morning was the deadline and so now
am suddenly scrambling.
If I am unable to reserve by tomorrow morning is this like convention
where I won't be able to get a room at all?
It's not that I was intentionally trying to wait until the last minute
or anything.
I'm just trying to get things worked out and I don't know yet whether
I'll be able to go for sure.
Thanks,
Kerri

On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Arielle,
> Thanks for the explanation. I attended those nice banquets and remember the
>
> good time of it and the singing
> and all that went on there. It had some inspiritational speakers too; oh,
> those days; but as you said it was a while back, but time flies so it seems
>
> not that far back.
>
> Anyway, there is a four hour meeting; i;'m sure it will be fun and
> informative.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:36 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
>
> DueWed 1/9
>
> Hi Ashley and all,
> The NABS meeting is sometimes on Sunday and sometimes on Monday. I'm
> not sure why they decided to do it on Monday this year. However when
> it's on Monday it has to be a half-day because the gathering-in
> meeting is at 5:00 in the same room, so the NABS meeting has to be
> done by 3:00 or so in order to give enough time to clean up and
> reorganize the room for the great gathering-in meeting.
> NABS has not had a student banquet for many years. From my
> recollection the main reason is cost. Banquets are very expensive to
> put on. Instead NABS has opted to sponsor a lower-cost and less formal
> social with a fund-raising auction. This also allows for NABS members
> to go out for dinner with friends, affiliate members, etc. before the
> social.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
>> Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
>> Is there no student banquet this year?
>> Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair?
>> Is
>> there a registeration fee for the meeting?
>> Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not stay
>>
>> at
>>
>> the hotel.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
>> DueWed 1/9
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to
>> 7,
>> please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to
>> Lisa
>> Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
>> holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
>> resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
>> and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
>> circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
>> lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room
>> at
>> the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 04:21:28 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:21:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
 DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxzsyKQ4E=gaxC6acztk7DKc3hybcU-oJDhs0LxZAQbDBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com>
	<9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB69739765C4448A1E7464A1E1EF41A@OwnerPC>
	<CAM6GWxzsyKQ4E=gaxC6acztk7DKc3hybcU-oJDhs0LxZAQbDBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB2KO9MLp4CuKzhD6hymVRh5+3YZhxVjDgN-7zcix1b9g@mail.gmail.com>

You can also call Lisa at
303-778-1130 ext. 219
to make your reservations. I'm not sure if any more rooms will be
available after tomorrow, but you can cancel at least three days
before check-in without being charged if your plans change. Just make
sure you make the cancelation with Lisa, too, if that ends up
happening.
Best,
Arielle

On 1/8/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Arielle and Others:
> I am still deciding whether I want to attend Washington seminar.
> Can reservations only be emailed to Lisa or is there a phone number for
> her?
> I sort of didn't realize tomorrow morning was the deadline and so now
> am suddenly scrambling.
> If I am unable to reserve by tomorrow morning is this like convention
> where I won't be able to get a room at all?
> It's not that I was intentionally trying to wait until the last minute
> or anything.
> I'm just trying to get things worked out and I don't know yet whether
> I'll be able to go for sure.
> Thanks,
> Kerri
>
> On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>> Thanks for the explanation. I attended those nice banquets and remember
>> the
>>
>> good time of it and the singing
>> and all that went on there. It had some inspiritational speakers too; oh,
>> those days; but as you said it was a while back, but time flies so it
>> seems
>>
>> not that far back.
>>
>> Anyway, there is a four hour meeting; i;'m sure it will be fun and
>> informative.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:36 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room
>> Reservations
>>
>> DueWed 1/9
>>
>> Hi Ashley and all,
>> The NABS meeting is sometimes on Sunday and sometimes on Monday. I'm
>> not sure why they decided to do it on Monday this year. However when
>> it's on Monday it has to be a half-day because the gathering-in
>> meeting is at 5:00 in the same room, so the NABS meeting has to be
>> done by 3:00 or so in order to give enough time to clean up and
>> reorganize the room for the great gathering-in meeting.
>> NABS has not had a student banquet for many years. From my
>> recollection the main reason is cost. Banquets are very expensive to
>> put on. Instead NABS has opted to sponsor a lower-cost and less formal
>> social with a fund-raising auction. This also allows for NABS members
>> to go out for dinner with friends, affiliate members, etc. before the
>> social.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
>>> Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
>>> Is there no student banquet this year?
>>> Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair?
>>> Is
>>> there a registeration fee for the meeting?
>>> Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not
>>> stay
>>>
>>> at
>>>
>>> the hotel.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
>>> DueWed 1/9
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to
>>> 7,
>>> please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to
>>> Lisa
>>> Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will
>>> be
>>> holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with
>>> a
>>> resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social
>>> event
>>> and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
>>> circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
>>> lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room
>>> at
>>> the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 05:10:47 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:10:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs presents: National Federation of the Blind
	Scholarship Call
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjNqWTbq2tnFDED25z9z-ZjwN6kcnp1wvsv146kdnpAABQ@mail.gmail.com>

Fellow students:
    It is time once again for the monthly NABS Membership Committee
conference call. This month we bring you a call all about scholarships
- and who could not use one of those? Please join us as we will have
several speakers on the call to talk about various scholarship
opportunities. Patti Chang, National Federation of the Blind
Scholarship Chair will be on the call to talk about the scholarships
that the NFB is giving out at the national level. To find out more
about the NFB National scholarship program prior to the call, you may
visit the following link: http://www.nfb.org/scholarships
To sum it up:
When?: Wednesday, Janurary 16, 2012; 8:00 PM EST.
What?: A conference call on the topic of scholarships.
Where?: NABS Conference Call Line: (605) 475-6700. Code 7869673


We look forward to seeing everyone on the call!

Your NABS Membership Committee


-- 
Darian Smith


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 05:17:40 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:17:40 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
	Region Student Seminar.
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOtizKZEwASJNj+J=o6O7gxc_AbUno37JLzSv8BMb5sUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
 here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any questions.
  I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of
Nevada is putting on!

 Darian

Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar

When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013

Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and

Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.

Phone: (702) 732-9100

College Students:

Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.

Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
in your scholastic life.

Network with students from all over the west coast

Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.

Parents:

Meet other parents and network

Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.

Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.

Get your student connected with Mentors.

All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
(National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
opportunity to  enjoy
an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun activities within the hotel.

Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -

RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
email:
swstudentseminar at gmail.com
 or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or
realhappygirl1 at gmail.com


From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 14:25:38 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 07:25:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] =?windows-1252?q?=7BDisarmed=7D_should_I_disclose_my_tra?=
	=?windows-1252?q?nsportation_issues_when_I=92m_interviewing=3F?=
Message-ID: <CANnXs0L8nDmNaLAPO-4YTAbw+_iVrCPx6KyVhk3CaPOT74jh3A@mail.gmail.com>

-- 
should I disclose my transportation issues when I’m interviewing?

January 8, 2013

A reader writes:

*I have a few things working against me as I start my job search, and your
blog has been such a help with navigating those issues. One that you
haven’t covered is transportation.*

*Through no fault of my own, I don’t have a car or driver’s license.
Besides avoiding jobs that explicitly require these, how should I handle
the situation? I am temporarily staying with a friend while I seek a job
and apartment. He lives on the interstate (meaning public transportation is
very limited and I can’t safely go on foot), so I am applying to jobs in
the nearest city. Consequently, I am uncertain if I would need special
accommodation, like only working shifts that match the bus schedule,
because I don’t know how far my future residence would be from my future
job. Depending on if someone could give me a ride, I used to walk between
5.5 and 1.5 miles a day at a previous job (in Buffalo, NY during winter, no
less), so I know I’m reliable.*

*Would it be a disingenuous to treat my transportation as none of my
employer’s concern, or should I bring it up? If I should mention it, do I
bring it up in the cover letter or wait for an interview?*

Definitely don’t bring it up in your cover letter — the cover letter is to
explain how you’d be a great match with the job, and you don’t want to
raise concerns there that might end up not even being concerns.

And you don’t need to raise it in the interview either, if your interviewer
doesn’t raise it herself. Assume that your transportation is strictly your
business unless you’re asked about it.

If you *are* asked about it, you want it to sound like as much of a
non-issue as you can honestly make it. Employers definitely don’t want to
hear about the details of your transportation situation — if they ask, they
want to hear “yes, transportation is no problem” or “no, I don’t have
reliable transportation.” (Well, they don’t *want* to hear the latter, but
they’d rather hear it up-front than find out after they’ve hired you.)

Now, if you know that you’d need to only work shifts that match a bus
schedule, *and* if those shifts are likely to be significantly different
from what everyone else works, then yes, mention it if you’re asked —
because you’re going to have to say it at some point if you get the job,
and you don’t want to look like you misrepresented things earlier. And if
you’re not asked, wait until you get a job offer, and bring it up at that
point.

But if you’re going to be able to get to the job on the same schedule as
everyone else, and you’re going to be able to do it reliably, I don’t think
it’s anyone’s business how you achieve that. Busses and feet are just as
reliable as cars, after all. When someone is unreliable, it’s usually
because of their own behavior (sleeping in and missing the bus) or because
their plan was never a reliable one to begin with (like counting on a
neighbor for a ride).
You may also like:

   - four more "where are they now"
updates<http://www.askamanager.org/2012/12/four-more-where-are-they-now-updates.html>
   - how to talk about weaknesses in an
interview<http://www.askamanager.org/2012/12/how-to-talk-about-weaknesses-in-an-interview.html>
   - schedule changed after I accepted job
offer<http://www.askamanager.org/2011/04/schedule-changed-after-i-accepted-job-offer.html>

*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*

 { 62 comments… read them below or add
one<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#respond>
}
  Parfait January 8, 2013 at 3:04
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140897>

If the bus schedule affects what hours you are available for work, tell
them that those are the hours you are available for work. But I wouldn’t
tell them that the bus is why, and I wouldn’t even bring it up otherwise.

I remember in my impoverished, carless youth, applying at a fast food place
two blocks from my apartment – and they wouldn’t hire me because I didn’t
have a car. I was like, “What? You are two blocks from me.” They said,
“Well our other location isn’t.” I said, “There is reliable bus service
from here to there!” But they wouldn’t hear of it.

“Yes, I have reliable transportation.” The end.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140897#respond>
  FormerManager January 8, 2013 at 3:13
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140904>

Reminds me of my first job….I didn’t drive and my parents would drop me off
and pick me up. But when they asked if I had a car before I was hired, I
said “yes.”

Of course, said car was an undrivable 1970s Buick Regal that had never been
driven for years and sat unused in the driveway. (My dementia suffering
grandmother “gave” it to me after my parents had it towed to their place
after she moved in to a home–we sort of pretended to her I would use it
though it would have needed a miracle to run).

Later, on my last day, the owner of the shop brought up the fact that he’d
never realized until now that I didn’t drive to work. And I answered,
smiling, “yup, I was never late once.”

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140904#respond>
  Job seeker January 8, 2013 at 4:07
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140939>

I sympathize with this poster. I remember when I was younger and did not
yet have a car. The job I held was at a engineering firm and in the
suburbs. I had a ride to and from work with my mom until my dad got sick
and was in the hospital. I had to get public transportation for a month
until he passed away. I remember how hard that was. I would have to leave
for work one hour and half before I had to be there in the morning. I had
to travel downtown to get a bus to drive me back into the suburbs. My dad
was dying of cancer so when I got off work, I took another bus back
downtown to the hospital. I stayed there with my mom as long I could and
take the last bus back to the suburbs to go home. I hope this poster can
work this out. Being without transportation was hard.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140939#respond>
  FormerManager January 8, 2013 at 4:38
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140948>

The ‘burbs suck when it comes to transit.

I’m lucky in that I’m outside a metropolitan city that has decent transit
and my ‘burb has one of the better bus systems. It makes me feel bad when I
talk to my cousin–she had to leave the city she was living in and move back
with her parents because she suddenly developed seizures and couldn’t
drive. Thus, she couldn’t get to her job and had to go on disability.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140948#respond>
  Job seeker January 8, 2013 at 7:02
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140980>

I think my experience made me realize how fortunate I am now. I would hate
to have to count on public transportation for work. I realize how much
easier it is for me to just go out into the garage and start the car and
go. My husband bought me a new car last year and has always provided things
good for me since our marriage. I still want to always never take anything
for granted.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140980#respond>
    mh_76 January 8, 2013 at 3:11
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140902>

You should, however, disclose your transportation issue if you’re working
with recruiters/agencies so that they can at least attempt to be mindful
when they hopefully find positions that might be of interest to you that
you can physically get to on foot or via transit. Having said that, you
will have to kindly remind them often because…the last 4 recruiter-leads
that came my way were for jobs that I wouldn’t be able to get to without a
car…
–
I have my own transportation issue* front and center on my online profiles
(LI, indeed, monster) because part of the reason that I live in a large
city is so that I don’t have to spend half of my day in the car. I like
driving and would be OK with a moderate reverse-commute (I don’t tell a lot
of people that) but I shouldn’t have to do that. I’ve opted to be very
up-front because I don’t want to get into a situation where I have an
interview offered in the far-away suburbs but have absolutely no way of
getting there and don’t have enough notice to rent a car without getting
ripped off (then, if I got an offer, I’d have to look into getting a car on
short-notice too…not out of the question but I’d probably get ripped off…or
have to turn down the offer if it’s too far away).
*(I have a DL but don’t own a car & live in a city with transit…it’s not
always reliable but it’s nearby)
–
It sounds like you’re willing to relocate once you get the job (I’m not…at
least not specifically for a job), so maybe try to focus your search on
companies that you know are transit-accessible even if that does mean you
have to move to make it possible and tell any recruiters that you require
public-transit access.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140902#respond>
  <http://www.kristinyc.wordpress.com>
kristinyc<http://www.kristinyc.wordpress.com> January
8, 2013 at 3:39
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140921>

I had a recruiter try to get me to take a job that was a few miles into New
Jersey (I live in Queens). She actually said, “I looked at a google map,
and it’s only 15 miles from where you live!” She lived on the other side of
the country and had no idea what should be considered a reasonable commute
in NYC.
Yeah, 15 miles – but 3 hours on public transit. No thanks!

(As it is, it takes me an hour to get into Soho…)

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140921#respond>
  BW January 8, 2013 at 3:54
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140930>

Out of state recruiters have no clue about the logistics. 15 miles in the
city driving or on public transit may as well be in another state for the
time it takes to get there. It’s not like 15 miles on open road. I would
get that kind of thing all the time when job hunting. They’d also drive me
nuts by saying a position was located in the city, but when I’d ask for
details, I’d find out it wasn’t anywhere near the city, and then they would
try to convince me it really would be that bad because it was a “reverse
commute”. Um..first I have to get out of the city. Secondly, there is no
reverse commute between the city and the tech belt. People are commuting to
the city to work, and just as many people are commuting to the outter-ring
tech belt to work, except they are all driving and clogging up the roads,
because there’s little or no public transit out there. *headdesk*

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140930#respond>
  Blinx January 8, 2013 at 5:18
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140961>

I can’t tell you how many ads I’ve seen listed for Philadelphia, that when
you click on them and read the details, are actually in central or south
Jersey. Um, Philadelphia’s in another state altogether!! [Job Hunting Pet
Peeve No. 38]

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140961#respond>
  K. January 8, 2013 at 7:06
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140981>

Yeah, the “greater Philadelphia area” is tricky because it encompasses so
much. Philly and the surrounding suburbs in PA as well as south Jersey,
central Jersey, Delaware … I’ve known a few people who live in Philly and
work in Wilmington.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140981#respond>
   AdAgencyChick January 8, 2013 at 4:01
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140935>

If I had a dollar for every New Jersey recruiter who thinks my ass is
coming out there from Brooklyn…

Which is to say, I feel your pain!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140935#respond>
  Anonymous January 8, 2013 at 3:40
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140922>

This is somewhat off-topic but slightly related to what you posted: Has
having a profile on Indeed gotten you any results? I ask because I use the
site every day, but after having my e-mail address spammed heavily a few
years ago because of my Monster account, I am wary to post a profile on any
job sites.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140922#respond>
  Sydney January 8, 2013 at 3:51
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140927>

I do hiring for my company and we used Indeed on this last round. We also
put out ads on Craigslist and with the Texas Workforce Commission and local
universities. We didn’t do any other paid job sites, and the only reason we
used Indeed this time was because they gave me a $50 credit to use. I only
used the $50 credit and it got me a huge number of applicants, most of them
way better than any other source.

So next round, I will be paying Indeed for their services.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140927#respond>
  mh_76 January 8, 2013 at 3:51
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140928>

kristinyc, another reason that I won’t talk to recruiters outside of my
immediate metro-area.

anonymous, not really but I’ve been contacted twice. Replied to one, never
heard back. Forgot to reply to the other…oops…but I just looked at that
email again and the body of it seems canned, like the person didn’t read my
profile at all (get a lot of those from monster). “Based on your reputation
and in Sales Operations”… um, I’ve never worked in Sales Ops and don’t
think that it’s an area of interest.

I haven’t had a lot of spam from either but I also use a separate email
address for them and gmail is pretty good at catching spam (though I check
sometimes, in case something legit winds up there).

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140928#respond>
  mh_76 January 8, 2013 at 4:41
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140951>

Got an email today from a local recruiter about a too-far-away position
(same state, too far away) and replied “Thank you for emailing! I am very
interested in Project Coordinator positions but [location] is too far away
– I live fewer than 10 blocks from your office. I would love to speak to
you, though, about similar opportunities that are closer to, preferrably
in, [metro area]. Feel free to look at my LinkedIn profile and I hope to
hear back from you.” Didn’t tell her that I’m already in for that position
through another recruiter (can rent a car for the interview if one’s
offered) but know that it’s the same job because the job description is
exactly the same, verbatim, right down to the lingo. I probably won’t hear
back but that’s OK, their loss!!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140951#respond>
   PEBCAK January 8, 2013 at 3:11
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140903>

It sounds like the OP doesn’t even know if she will need to work special
hours, because she doesn’t know where she’ll be living once she gets a job.
I think the only option here is to act like you will be just fine, and then
do your damndest to find a living situation that makes that true.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140903#respond>
  KarenT January 8, 2013 at 3:18
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140909>

Maybe others will disagree, but I think it’s fine in an interview to ask
what the working hours will be. They might say everyone here works 9-5, or
that they have flex time (at my company, for example, everyone has to work
8 hours a day and be in the office from 9-3, so you could work 7-3, 8-4,
9-5, etc.). That may help you determine how feasible a job is for you
before you get to the offer stage.

Good luck!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140909#respond>
  KellyK January 8, 2013 at 3:28
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140916>

I think that’s a perfectly reasonable question, and the LW wouldn’t need to
bring up their lack of a car to ask it. Car or no car, most people want to
know both what their hours would be and how much “wiggle room” there is for
those hours.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140916#respond>
  COT January 8, 2013 at 3:36
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140919>

Agreed. The OP needs a workplace where it’s there’s a bit of wiggle room
for transit issues. She might need to leave at 4:50 to catch the bus on
time, or perhaps her morning bus is late due to weather, etc.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140919#respond>
  Chocolate Teapot January 8, 2013 at 3:19
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140910>

I once applied for a job through a recruiter, and never got as far as the
interview since I don’t drive. Mind you, it was one of those recruiters who
prefers not to give any information (like what sort of company) if they can.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140910#respond>
  mh_76 January 8, 2013 at 3:33
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140918>

I’ve discovered that, if the recruiter sends you a canned job description,
you can often Google that and find the company or find another listing that
provides more info. Or you can say that you’re being put in for a lot of
jobs by other recruiters (some will press for more info, not their biz) and
would like to make sure that you’re not already in for the position. A
remotely decent recruiter will at least ask his/her boss is s/he can tell
you what company and a decent one will tell you anyway. With recruiters,
you can also specify that you require public-transit access (many even have
a check-box/field on their application forms to that effect).

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140918#respond>
  Lynn January 8, 2013 at 7:02
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140979>

That’s weird. Every time I’ve talked to a recruiter, the first thing they
tell me is the company name. Because OF COURSE you need to think about
whether it is a reasonable commute. There are other considerations too,
like you don’t want to apply for a job at your current company, you might
have preferences about big company vs small company. How do they recruit
anyone without revealing the company name?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140979#respond>
  mh_76 January 8, 2013 at 10:05
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141021>

*Every time I’ve talked to a recruiter, the first thing they tell me is the
company name.*
That varies, depending on the recruiter, and even varies from person to
person at the same agency. Some will tell, some need to be cajoled, some
won’t come hell or high water.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141021#respond>
   KellyK January 8, 2013 at 3:25
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140915>

I definitely agree that it’s something to wait to bring up until you’re
asked or until the job offer stage. It’d probably be a good idea to ask
general questions about the hours, the expectations of overtime and how
frequently schedule changes may come up, etc., so you can make sure your
commute will be feasible, and so you have a better idea what questions to
ask at the offer stage if you do need to bring it up. For example, if
you’ll routinely be asked to stay late with no notice, you’ll want to make
sure the bus schedule accommodates that.

I would add that if you end up planning to use public transit, verify for
yourself that it is actually reliable before you answer “yes” to “Do you
have reliable transportation?” Some systems are really good, and some
are…really not.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140915#respond>
  Jennifer January 8, 2013 at 3:31
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140917>

As a person without a car (and without a DL for most of my life), I only
apply at places I can get to, period. I’ve so far been lucky in that I’ve
been able to get jobs within walking distance of my home, but if I got a
job in another town, I’d have problems since the county bus line is not so
reliable–plus odds are high I’d still have to have a car/get a ride to the
location I need to go to from the bus stop. Fun times. And don’t get me
started on how hard it is to find rides.

I’m wondering if the OP is applying for jobs that require shift work like
retail or food service. I haven’t had an issue because I have only worked
7-4 or 8-5 jobs on a regular basis (plus I have so far managed to live
within a half hour’s walk of my jobs so I could cover the one night shift I
had to do with no public transport help), but I strongly suspect it’ll be a
problem depending on what hours they want you to work and if they change
from week to week. Usually you’ll be able to get to daytime jobs on the
bus, but depending on your location, night and weekend busses are more
limited to nonexistent.

You need to memorize what your public transport options are before the
interview so that you know what you can and cannot do, timewise. In the
interview, I would ask what hours I would be expected to work on a regular
basis if they don’t tell you this right off. If they’re during the day,
then you don’t need to say a thing. But if they say that you might have to
work the midnight to 8 a.m. shift* off and on and you know public transport
won’t cover that, then you’ll need to say something. However, if you’re
applying at food service/retail, from what I’ve heard folks will not be
sympathetic to your lack of availability, so you may not get that job.
Sorry to say that.

* A friend of mine who doesn’t drive ended up in this kind of situation
except her time was even worse, getting off work at 3 a.m.–plus to get
there she was taking the bus into another town. She had a 3 hour wait
between getting off work and when the next bus came, and ended up quitting
after a day because it was just too heinous.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140917#respond>
  <https://clericalchick.wordpress.com/> Elizabeth
West<https://clericalchick.wordpress.com/> January
8, 2013 at 8:22
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140999>

*You need to memorize what your public transport options are before the
interview so that you know what you can and cannot do, timewise.*

Yes, this. You really need to know how long it takes you to get around. It
can vary, and as other posters have pointed out, transit systems are wildly
different in efficiency (and route coverage) in different places.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140999#respond>
  Kay January 8, 2013 at 3:37
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140920>

I work helping visually impaired individuals find employment and this is
one of the biggest hurdles to overcome when approaching employers. In
general if an employer asks if my clients have reliable transportation I
tell them to simply say “yes” and leave it at that. I think if you start
going into a long explanation about the various methods you may use to get
to work, the employer will get more anxious.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140920#respond>
  km January 8, 2013 at 3:41
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140923>

Depending on the size of the city where you’re looking for employment, you
taking the bus to work may not be that out of the ordinary for your
employer. I work in Boston and of my 60 co-workers, I think 59 of them take
public transportation to work. There was a day last year when we were
trying to recruit staff volunteers to help set-up for a fundraiser at 5AM
and it was understood that this would be impossible because that’s before
the train starts running.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140923#respond>
  tangoecho5 January 8, 2013 at 4:37
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140947>

Likewise if you work for a big enough company, they might have dedicated
van pools &/or drivers or an agreement to help pay for the cost of taking
advantage of those options. I lived an hours plus drive away from my job.
While I had a car and would drive myself to work occasionally, I also
joined the van pool as a rider and paid a monthly fee with the cost also
partially paid by my employer. It was so stress free to let someone else do
the driving and no wear or tear on my car. It was certainly more cost
efficient than buying gas for my car. A fellow company employee did the
driving of the Metro owned Van and he’d stop two or three places, pick up
other employees who worked at our location and we’d then all carpool to
work. Now I had to get from my home to one of the convenient locations for
pick up but it wasn’t far and usually the driver was willing to work with a
person if it didn’t put the Van pool too far out of schedule or location.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140947#respond>
  Anonymous January 9, 2013 at 7:36
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141087>

If the OP is still in Buffalo, NY, public transportation is sketchy. There
is a bus system, but it is nothing like what it is in major cities. Many
jobs are located in the ‘burbs and the bus schedule gets worse once you
leave the city limits. It can be done and more power to the OP for doing it
in the past, but it is not the norm.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141087#respond>
  Jay January 8, 2013 at 3:42
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140924>

What about careers that require you to travel a fraction of the time as
part of the job (sales, underwriting)? Getting to the building wouldn’t be
as much of a problem. If I can’t drive is it even worth applying to those
companies? There is a company I’m interested in that says I would be
traveling around 30% of the time.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140924#respond>
  <http://askamanager.org> Ask a Manager <http://askamanager.org> January
8, 2013 at 3:49
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140926>

Companies generally pay for travel costs, so I’d assume they’d handle a
rental car or plane or whatever your travel would be based on.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140926#respond>
  fposte January 8, 2013 at 3:57
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140932>

He’d still be expected to drive the rental car, though, wouldn’t he?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140932#respond>
  <http://askamanager.org> Ask a Manager <http://askamanager.org> January
8, 2013 at 3:58
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140933>

Whoops — I interpreted “I can’t drive” as “I don’t have a car,” but should
not have! In that case, I agree with the below — ask if the job requires a
driver’s license!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140933#respond>
  BW January 8, 2013 at 4:26
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140943>

That’s what I was thinking as well, although in my case, the travel did not
require the employee to drive. The company would pay for taxi service to
and from the airport and to and from the remote work site.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140943#respond>
  fposte January 8, 2013 at 4:47
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140953>

I have an old-timey small-town brain–I was thinking of salesfolk driving
around their regional territories in their shiny cars. That’s probably not
so much the norm these days!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140953#respond>
    fposte January 8, 2013 at 3:54
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140931>

Can you inquire if the job requires a driver’s license? You might get an
informative answer. If the territory is largely in a metropolitan area,
public transit might work fine.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140931#respond>
  BW January 8, 2013 at 4:10
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140941>

The company will generally pay your costs and provide you with needed
transportation, especially if it’s long distance. I used to travel a lot.
Plane tickets were paid out directly, and I got reimbursed for any public
transit, cabs, driving in my car, or driving in a rental that I did.

This is something you definitely want to bring up when interviewing for any
position where travel is required, not just to find out if you need your
own car, but to find out how much, if any, money you will be expected to
pay out of pocket or pay up front and then get reimbursed for. Some
companies will give employees corporate cards to pay for business travel
related expenses. In other cases, you might have to pay out of pocket and
then submit a reimbursement request which can then take weeks before you
get your money back.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140941#respond>
  <http://www.ohagirldragon.com> Sabrina <http://www.ohagirldragon.com> January
8, 2013 at 3:53
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140929>

My father in law doesn’t drive due to a medical condition. It’s a giant
PITA to find him a job along a bus line because the transit in this town
isn’t the greatest.

I wouldn’t mention it at all though. How you get to work is your business,
though you could always enquire about mass transit incentives.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140929#respond>
  ChristineH January 8, 2013 at 4:06
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140938>

Well….I now see where I’ve been going wrong. I cannot drive due to a vision
impairment; due to an embarrassing interview experience, I always ask up
front if driving is involved in the job (as Jay above asks about as well),
usually either before accepting an interview or at the interview itself.
D’oh!!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140938#respond>
  fposte January 8, 2013 at 4:45
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140952>

I think driving as part of the job does need to be treated differently than
driving *to* the job, though. When you’re traveling on the employer’s dime
it’s a whole different matter. I don’t have a simple answer for that
situation, but I do think it’s important to remember, as Juni notes, that
this is an ADA-relevant issue and that for many positions it can be
accommodated. It might make more sense to ask about the travel, note that
you have an ADA-relevant visual disability that prevents you from driving,
and explain the alternatives. While not every job can accommodate a lack of
driving, I think it’s better to make it a discussion than an open “I don’t
have this” announcement. (Unless the requirement was in the job
description, of course.)

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140952#respond>
  Juni January 8, 2013 at 4:33
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140946>

OP: In case you don’t have a driver’s license because you have a disability
(invisible or not) that precludes you from eligibility for one, it’s okay
to apply to jobs and let them know on the application form that you have a
disability that precludes you from driving but will not interfere with your
other work. The ADA requires an employer to offer you reasonable
accommodation. If you’re a database administrator who, twice a year, needs
to attend a Gala in another part of the city or state, that’s easily
accommodated.

I’ve done this and employers have been very receptive to it. I’ve rarely
needed to actually DRIVE somewhere… just needed to BE somewhere. Taxis,
carpools, and public trans have all subbed in before, and being able to say
that your workplace is inclusive in hiring people with disabilities is very
valuable to employers!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140946#respond>
  Hello Vino January 8, 2013 at 5:09
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140958>

I’ve been in a similar situation when I was living in San Francisco. The
issue of transportation only came up after they made me an offer. I lived
in SF, while the office was about a 30-minute ride away. I rode the train
and bus to work everyday. The bus, unfortunately, only came once an hour. I
stuck to a strict schedule and gave myself extra time in the mornings. If a
sudden delay came up, I made sure to let my manager know ASAP.

My manager was very understanding of the whole transportation situation. On
the rare occasion when I had to work late, he would drop me off at the
train station as the area the bus stop was in was considered pretty sketchy
at night. There were some people in the office had an issue with me
sticking to a routine due to the bus schedule though. It was never brought
up by my manager or HR, just gossip around the office.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140958#respond>
  Editor January 8, 2013 at 5:17
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140960>

In my county, there’s a van transportation system open to people who are
disabled and elderly, but the cost per trip is fairly high. I know it
transports some students regularly, but I don’t know if it provides
transportation to work.

Even in the suburbs, sometimes it is possible to live within walking or
biking distance of a job. Older suburbs seem to work better for this — the
houses aren’t as far from commercial strips or manufacturing. Most
employers are more likely to stay in a facility that’s owned rather than
leased, although that’s no guarantee that the job will continue to be at
the same site in the same building for decades.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140960#respond>
  Main Street Maven January 8, 2013 at 5:51
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140968>

OP: What, you couldn’t just TAKE THE SUBWAY in Buffalo? Ha ha ha ha ha.
(Only funny if you’ve lived in Buffalo–and even then, not really a
knee-slapper.)

Seriously, I wouldn’t bring it up until at least the interview, and be sure
and ask some questions in the interview about work hours, flexibility, etc.
It really shouldn’t be a big deal, if the company is accessible by public
transportation. Hey, maybe you could find a company with an environmental
focus, and spin your transportation method as a positive (which it actually
is, environmentally speaking).

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140968#respond>
  Katie the Fed January 8, 2013 at 6:02
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-140972>

I was interviewing potential candidates and we closed with the softball
question of “Why do you want this job” and I swear that one candidate said
“well, I’m moving in with my boyfriend and my commute will be a whole lot
easier.”

This is an EASY question. Make something up at the very least. You want the
challenge, you want the development, you have a strong interest in ABC,
whatever! Your commute is not my concern.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=140972#respond>
  Cassie January 8, 2013 at 10:04
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141020>

Would a shorter commute be an okay answer if asked why you are looking for
a job? I wouldn’t say that a shorter commute is why I want *this* job, but
that it was one of my reasons for leaving my current job (if that were the
case) – would that be okay to say?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141020#respond>
  Katie the Fed January 9, 2013 at 12:10
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141045>

Personally, I’d avoid it altogether. It’s not an egregious sin to mention
it but from my perspective if I’m hiring, I’m concerned about what you
bring to the job, not what the job can do for you (shorten your commute),
ya know?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141045#respond>
  Jamie January 9, 2013 at 7:49
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141092>

I agree with this – I’d avoid it too.

Just focus on why you want *that* job because personal factors (which are
totally valid and we all have them) tend to come off as self-serving.

Unless the personal factor is something they stress and are proud of – then
it can work for you. I.e. for me a deal breaker was off-street parking – I
needed a parking lot. So in an interview when the employer was going on
about how convenient their parking lot is and how many other businesses
don’t offer that I told them that I did a trial run before the interview –
to gauge commute and check out the parking situation because nothing makes
me happier than off street parking.

Weirdly – they loved that I was a fan girl of their parking lot. Yep – took
the job and I still love my reserved space.

So there are times where it works to care about some weird perk – when it’s
something they are particularly proud of offering.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141092#respond>
   <https://clericalchick.wordpress.com/> Elizabeth
West<https://clericalchick.wordpress.com/> January
8, 2013 at 8:36
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141003>

Not having a car in a place without really good mass transit is a bear. I
didn’t get my DL until I was 32 (no issues; just never had a car, and it
wasn’t worth it as I could get a state ID anyway). What I used was:

–Feet
–Bus (Santa Cruz, CA had great buses when I lived there and the weather was
always good)
–Bicycle (in my hometown, where you could bike across town in 15 minutes
even in the snow)
–Rides (when weather was stormy or I just didn’t want to walk or bike)

It wasn’t until I started dating someone who lived 50 miles away that I
finally got a poopy little car and my DL. After a succession of poopy cars,
I finally have a decent one now. But I’m still anxious about a longer
commute. I just can’t get used to having something good; I keep expecting
the poor thing to suddenly blow up or die in traffic. And I won’t be able
to get anything else for a LONG time; I have to make him last, so I’m loath
to put miles on him.

You basically have to know the system, and know how long it will take you
between here and there. And you have to have some kind of backup. It’s
really, really hard if the place you live isn’t set up for that. I don’t
know how anyone in my current city does it. The buses stink, and in many
parts of the city, there aren’t even any sidewalks! People get hit all the
time!

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141003#respond>
  Rana January 8, 2013 at 9:58
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141017>

Oh, gosh, places without sidewalks. I have many rants about those, along
with even louder rants about places where you can’t walk from one place to
another right across the street without making a mile-long detour to the
only place that has a human-friendly crossing.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141017#respond>
  Michael January 8, 2013 at 9:13
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141010>

We have been trained at my workplace to not ask questions about an
applicant’s transportation situation; apparently, the use of public
transportation can be interpreted as an applicant’s membership in a legally
protected class.

Instead, we say something like, “This job requires you to report to work at
locations around the metro without being late. Does that work for you?”

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141010#respond>
  <http://askamanager.org> Ask a Manager <http://askamanager.org> January
8, 2013 at 9:24
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141013>

Hmmm. Using public transportation isn’t a protected class on its own,
obviously, so I assume your company is concerned that bias against people
who use public transportation could disproportionately impact certain races
or other protected classes?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141013#respond>
  Rana January 8, 2013 at 9:59
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141018>

I could completely see reliance on public transit being used to weed out
people considered undesirable due to disability or class, sadly.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141018#respond>
  Jamie January 9, 2013 at 7:52
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141094>

Class isn’t legally protected though – and I’m not sure how ruling out
public transportation is an indicator of race. If it’s a neighborhood thing
most resumes list home addresses.

Disability would be the protected class I can think of that this might
cover – which is sad and wrong.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141094#respond>
  KellyK January 9, 2013 at 9:19
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141127>

Ruling out public transportation might be a weak indicator for race
depending on where you live. I’ve definitely been the only white person on
the DC metro on more than one occasion.

I could certainly picture someone who’s both racist and classist asking
questions about public transit to rule out “those low-class people” where
their mental image of “low-class” includes class and race both.

Disability is probably more likely, because there are much easier ways to
sort for race than asking random transportation questions. Like, looking at
someone when you interview them.

And you’re right. Very sad, and very wrong.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141127#respond>
   Anonymous January 9, 2013 at 7:47
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141091>

Yep, that’s how it’s been explained to me. The only time I have discussed
transportation is for the jobs where a drivers license is required to
operate company-owned vehicles.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141091#respond>
   Anna January 8, 2013 at 11:50
pm<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141043>

“Busses and feet are just as reliable as cars, after all. When someone is
unreliable, it’s usually because of their own behavior (sleeping in and
missing the bus) or because their plan was never a reliable one to begin
with (like counting on a neighbor for a ride).”

Hmmmm. Have *you* ever had to take two buses to work at 6:45am? There is
the delightful chance that a bus will run a full ten minutes late, and your
connecting bus will not run again for another 30 minutes, and you will miss
your connection.

Maybe this is just the New York subway system, but I’ve seen amazingly
brash cuts in the last few years in the MTA, especially bus routes,
especially in poor neighborhoods where there already wasn’t train service,
especially in “non-optimal” hours like early mornings and late nights (the
graveyard shift).

I remember looking at a map and seeing the bus that cut through an entire
swath of Brooklyn – nothing else went there, no trains – and learning that
it had been disconnected entirely.

No, buses are not reliable. In order for buses to be reliable, you have to
wake up an hour earlier than normal, and stand outside for an extra thirty
minutes, just in case the bus isn’t running on time and you miss the first
one. Which is a bit of an issue in winter.

Just saying. This is not my life these days, but it was. Access to easy,
fast, reliable transportation is definitely a privilege, and it’s easy to
judge when you have a lot of options as to how to get somewhere, and would
never dream of waking up at dawn so you could shiver in some bus depot with
the creepos for an hour.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141043#respond>
  Anonymous January 9, 2013 at 9:11
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141121>

3 buses at 5:28 am (in MN winters with a 30 min wait between two and a 5
min between the other two) and I was never once late. I did twice have to
walk an extra mile but after chatting with the bus driver that didn’t
happen any more.

Some days traffic is bad and my coworkers with cars are late and sometimes
you get a flat tire and you aren’t ranting about how horrible driving is
and you should only ever walk, and only ever in doors because outside you
might slip and fall. Public transit can be as reliable as any other
transit.

I did get up and shiver in the bus depot with creeps for hours and walk
miles because the driver didn’t flag down the next bus or was going slow on
an empty stretch. And it is entirely possible to make busing work.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141121#respond>
  T. January 9, 2013 at 2:18
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141063>

Hi Alison! This is OP here. Thanks for your speedy response. I actually
have an interview scheduled for Thursday (in part due to your great advice
on cover letters!) for a job I’m really excited about.

Luckily, the place is located about a mile from the central district
downtown. I don’t have personal experience with the city bus system but I
have heard good things, and it has to be reasonably reliable because of the
large, wide-spread student population here. None of the routes go there
directly, but it’s only a fifteen to twenty minute walk from stops on the
east, west, northwest, and south (and considerably less if I can take
shortcuts instead of going around the long way on the sidewalks). Hourly
pick ups go from 6:15 AM until 6:45 PM Monday through Saturday, with
limited routes until 11:45 PM and Sundays. The business’s hours are 10:00
AM -5:30 PM, so I am in the clear with the possible exception of Sundays.
Plus, it only costs $20 for a monthly bus pass.

That means I should have a lot of options when I move sometime in the next
two months. For the time being, my friend is willing to drive me into town
before he goes to work and pick me up after he finishes. If he ends up gone
for the weekend, I can still (somewhat expensively) make it there as long
as I could leave early Sunday evenings.

Of course, none of this may be an issue. I’ll have a more in-depth
conversation with my friend before the interview to come up with a plan
regarding weekends. I won’t bring up transportation at all unless it
becomes a problem when I move. They already know that I’ll be moving
soon–since it’s an antique furniture store, I worked into my cover letter
how much I like their products and would probably end up buying some of
them for my new place. Besides, when I scheduled my interview they gave me
a small time range instead of a specific appointment, so I imagine that
they have a fairly flexible attitude.

Thank you again! Now I’m going to start reading up on interviews.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141063#respond>
  Jamie January 9, 2013 at 6:51
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141080>

For me it’s about reliability and not how you get there – I don’t care if
it’s a horse and buggy. So I’d stay away from any reference to getting
rides – if the topic comes up speak about how you will be self-sufficient
in getting there.

I drove my son to his part time job for 9 months and he was never late, I
know some rides can be reliable…but often they are not. Friends get tired
of driving you, or people break up and all of a sudden people give notice
because they have no way to get to work.

I am sure the OP wouldn’t do this, but on the topic of public
transportation I wanted to mention it’s important not to assume that you’ll
meet a co-worker who will be happy to give you rides or take you/pick you
up from the train/bus when the weather is bad.

Every place that I’ve worked where people took public transportation there
would be one or two people who did this and they were universally resented.
Someone offering once as a favor is one thing, but too often it turns into
that person hanging around the office waiting for someone to leave to drop
them off…or calling the office from the train station for a ride into work
because of inclement weather.

I’m sure 90% of people who take public transportation wouldn’t think of
imposing like this – but it’s frequent enough to caution it because it’s
another reason (distant second behind reliability) that employers get
nervous if a candidate doesn’t have their own car.

Self-sufficiency. It’s never your co-workers responsibility to get you to
and from work. If you do meet someone who doesn’t mind driving you, really
doesn’t mind, that’s great. Make sure you kick in for gas.

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141080#respond>
  Meghan January 9, 2013 at 8:18
am<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html#comment-141102>

OP, are you still in Buffalo? I’m too :) The NFTA sucks, which is sad given
how spread out our area is but I’ve seen a lot of grassroots rideshares
popping up and it might be feasible to work out a schedule with that?

Reply<http://www.askamanager.org/2013/01/should-i-disclose-my-transportation-issues-when-im-interviewing.html?replytocom=141102#respond>

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From agrima at nbp.org  Wed Jan  9 15:21:31 2013
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:21:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NBP's 2013 Valentines!
Message-ID: <007601cdee7d$01420900$03c61b00$@org>

NBP's 2013 Valentines!

This year's Valentine is a treat for all the senses!

This year's card features a pair of pears - each with a small red valentine
heart - and the message "We're a pair, Valentine!" in print and braille. But
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 15:26:08 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:26:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
Message-ID: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>

hello all,

some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to questions as a manner of majoring participation.
do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work for the blind?
if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.

thank you in advance,

mauricio

From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 15:43:51 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:43:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <138D9FE0-2597-47B8-A49F-C99278726568@gmail.com>

what r iclickers. i am sorry i do not no a lot of this, but i thought this would b the best place to learn

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello all,
> 
> some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to questions as a manner of majoring participation.
> do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work for the blind?
> if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
> 
> thank you in advance,
> 
> mauricio
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 15:56:33 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
Message-ID: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>

i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind person, also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use my telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do let me feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.  How do I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my pad. So it is just the reading. 
Thanks 
Lavonnya

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 15:58:25 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 08:58:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CANnXs0KFxxRpR7sWJu5V3ANEOcX3H+fEGhMbp=UpZcyZjjpTOQ@mail.gmail.com>

-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244* Smile of the day
Tim decided to tie the knot with his long time girlfriend.
 One evening, after the honeymoon, he was assembling some loads for an
upcoming hunt.

 His wife was standing there at the bench watching him. After along period
of silence she finally speaks.

 Honey, I've been thinking, now that we are married I think it's time you
quit hunting,
 shooting, hand loading, and fishing. Maybe you should sell your guns and
boat.

 Tim gets this horrified look on his face.

 She says, "Darling, what's wrong?"

 ”For a minute there you were sounding like my ex-wife.”

 "Ex wife?" she screams, "I didn't know you were married before!"

 ”I wasn't “

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 16:22:21 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:22:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lavonya,

I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
(conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
concerts accessible to the deaf.

Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
best for you.

On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind person,
> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use my
> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do let me
> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.  How do
> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my pad. So
> it is just the reading.
> Thanks
> Lavonnya
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 16:31:07 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:31:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
In-Reply-To: <6C65170A795F4D698B3D31B02D623A06@OwnerPC>
References: <915E0EB650334A1BB44AA40BFFDB103B@OwnerPC>
	<CAFja7FbQPy7c+V5-7DUbbyk2dYsvvP0=xxoCm9t5pVF_9aau_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAEB1C-E7B4-4283-A193-B637B4F4AF95@gmail.com>
	<6C65170A795F4D698B3D31B02D623A06@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYunDUZx6u=NN04ZA5z9om7ucg9i=Zc4ccP-JQWiqauEw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

I don't think you could.  Bookshare relies on volunteers to scan,
edit, and upload a lot of their book files.  However, you could just
search the ISBN like Chris talked about and if they have the one you
want then you should be fine.  And even if the exact copy isn't there,
getting a sighted person to go through a print copy of the book with
you just to find the page numbers you need for citations isn't a big
deal.  I've done it and as long as you can verbally steer them where
you want them to go to get the page number it only takes a few
minutes.

On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> Having same page numbers is important for papers. If I signed up for
> bookshare, could I ask them if the page numbers matched the print copy?
> I'd want an exact match if at all possible.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Gregory
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 12:24 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible ebooks for school
>
> The issue that I found with Bookshare is that some of the print page numbers
> are not always correct in certain books… So you really have to know what
> you're downloading before you download it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> Have you checked out Bookshare?  Over the past few years they've
>> really taken an initiative in getting textbooks uploaded to the site.
>> They're not always there, but it's a great place to check.  Even if
>> you can't find your textbooks exactly, I've used them for school when
>> teachers required at least one book source and citation for a paper,
>> or something scholarly to refer back to.  You can also request a book
>> to be added to the collection.  They also have New York Times
>> Best-Sellers, popular titles and series, and even some daily
>> newspapers.  Membership is free for students as long as you have proof
>> of disability and are attending a recognized K-12 school, or
>> college/university.  Non-students only have to pay 50 dollars a year
>> for unlimitted access to the library.  Books are available in brf,
>> daisy, mp3, and I believe one other format.
>>
>> Although we can't use Kindles I really like my BookSense for reading
>> books.  From what I understand it does basically what a kindle does
>> and can announce the pages, move by line, paragraph, page, etc through
>> book documents, and has optional male or female voices for reading.
>> It also comes with a document reading mode so you can use it to
>> quickly have documents in audible format, a recording feature for
>> voice memos, and space to store other audio files.  The book and audio
>> reading sections of the device recognize several file formats
>> including brf, txt, doc, and rtf, and I also believe the kwb although
>> it's been a while since I've had a BrailleNote so don't quote me on
>> that last one.  There are also separate sections set up for NFB
>> Newsline, NLS, Bookshare, and personal documents.
>>
>> On 1/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know we often get  books from our disability support service, dss,
>>> office.
>>> But, since they are slow in responding, I try to do what I can alone; for
>>> instance, I use my own learning ally account as opposed to going through
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I know more and more books are available via electronic text for all
>>> students.
>>> I was wanting to know about this option.
>>> I often use the old fashioned way with readers since I can learn best
>>> with a
>>> human voice. With a reader, I can get them to spell words, describe the
>>> figures, and tell me what is bold or italics. I like to know this since
>>> bold
>>> or italics mean vocab or important terms.
>>>
>>> I like to know all options though.
>>> What books have you read electronically? From where? Which format are
>>> they
>>> in and what device or devices do you use to read them? We all know the
>>> standard ebook readers are not accessible such as Kindle, SonyReader, and
>>> Nook.
>>>
>>> I read on here that Course Smart texts became accessible in 2010. Can
>>> anyone
>>> explain how this service works? Do you rent or buy the ebook? Does the
>>> ebook
>>> have all pages and page numbers in it just as a print copy would?
>>> Is epub accessible?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 17:43:55 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:43:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] is anybody looking for a pacmate with 40 cell braille
	display?
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO4Ye_Sb=UHx_o8b5koQnyKmNJ2Svcuz4-AzeTRD4YVLNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I don't often comment or add to the list, but today I have 2 things.
This one, and my second thing will be in another message, because it
is another subject entirely.

I have a pacmate that was purchased for me through my VR services here
in Texas. I no longer need the pac mate but Texas/my VR people won't
take it back. It is broken, won't start, and needs to be sent off for
repairs. I don't have the money to repair it, and my VR people told me
that if I could find another blind person, anywhere in the country,
that wanted it and had the money, $400 or so, to get it fixed, that I
could give it to that person. So, is anybody wanting to buy a pacmate?
I don't want any money for it myself. All you would have to do is pay
for shipping, and pay to have it fixed, and it's yours.
If anybody is interested, you can respond to me privately as not to
clutter up the list and I'd be happy to make arrangements for you to
get it.
Thanks
Laurel


From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 17:49:51 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:49:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Scentsy flameless candles
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO5OpFZXq+e5jVpjNWwu43sxT1Ddh6DKxtV4NCoHOBMTTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
So I'm now an official Scentsy wickless candles consoltant, meaning I
sell Scentsy. The reason I'm bringing this up is this, it sort of
falls into the category of blindness living. I know a lot of people
like candles, but as blind people, sometimes it's unsafe to have an
open flame around. And, some of us, myself included, just don't feel
comfortable having an actual candle lit around us. Scentsy sells
candle warmers and wax bars. You get a little square of wax, put it in
the warmer, and turn it on. There is a light bulb that heats up the
wax, and then you get the wonderful smell that you would get from
melting wax on a candle. The nice thing is that there is no flame, and
no dripping melting wax. The wax is all in the candle warmer. It's
completely safe, and you can't really burn yourself by touching the
warmer.
I know a lot of us live in dorms, or college apartments, and lit
candles aren't such a good idea.
I just wanted to see if this sounds like anything any of you would be
interested in having, a Scentsy warmer. If you are interested, please
write me off list and I can help you get one. I would prefer that your
responses are not on list, I don't want those who are not interested
to continue receiving messages about this, and I don't want to risk
getting too off topic.
Anyways, let me know if you have questions and/or are interested.
You can also go to http://laurelwheeler.scentsy.us to look at stuff or
place an order.
Laurel


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 18:25:03 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 13:25:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>

it is done at hearing speech agency. i will ask her if she can do that. she has worked with deaf blind. so how much vission do u have. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:22, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lavonya,
> 
> I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
> college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
> (conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
> concerts accessible to the deaf.
> 
> Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
> or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
> copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
> best for you.
> 
> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind person,
>> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use my
>> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do let me
>> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.  How do
>> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my pad. So
>> it is just the reading.
>> Thanks
>> Lavonnya
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 18:43:21 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:43:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] What do you want to hear during a vocational
 rehabilitation call? The Membership Committee wants to hear from you!
Message-ID: <CACUFQdz_bw1hA=jGUZ8rmkg6jRJcYJ3v9+uKqXB891V7mre8nw@mail.gmail.com>

The NABS Membership Committee is planning to host a call about
vocational rehab in the coming months.

We have done a rehab call in the past, but students come and go, and
we feel that another call could be beneficial. However, there are many
facets to vocational rehab, so the call could take several directions.
To provide the most relevant and useful call for you, we want to know
what you want to know about rehab. Some ideas include:

•	Justifying going to an NFB training center
•	Effective ways to work with your counselor and information about
typical rehab policies and how to navigate bureaucracy
•	Ways to advocate for yourself, what you can do if you feel that your
voice isn’t being heard, etc.

Or, we could take a different turn and do a call about how to not rely
on voc rehab and other ways you can achieve the same services they
provide in order to receive those services in the manner you prefer.

So please send your feedback. From the responses, we will gage what
the majority want to hear, and then we can begin planning by locating
experts on whatever topic you choose.

Thank you, and happy brainstorming!


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 20:46:06 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:46:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
	DueWed 1/9
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxzsyKQ4E=gaxC6acztk7DKc3hybcU-oJDhs0LxZAQbDBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <009301cdedbf$8c1dc4b0$a4594e10$@gmail.com><9FFE0097F61C4EFC8B5A745287C44D24@OwnerPC><CALAYQJDgo8hZ8v8XTj7N5qf3d+XO5Wh2L0N_yertqJZ96OnUvA@mail.gmail.com><EEB69739765C4448A1E7464A1E1EF41A@OwnerPC>
	<CAM6GWxzsyKQ4E=gaxC6acztk7DKc3hybcU-oJDhs0LxZAQbDBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E02F3E7C3E0B4A8A9DF9EA204092373F@OwnerPC>

Kerry,
You could always try and get a roommate who has an existing reservation. 
When they said last day, they mean last day to get nfb rates; you could 
still get a room though.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kerri Kosten
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 10:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations 
DueWed 1/9

Hi Arielle and Others:
I am still deciding whether I want to attend Washington seminar.
Can reservations only be emailed to Lisa or is there a phone number for her?
I sort of didn't realize tomorrow morning was the deadline and so now
am suddenly scrambling.
If I am unable to reserve by tomorrow morning is this like convention
where I won't be able to get a room at all?
It's not that I was intentionally trying to wait until the last minute
or anything.
I'm just trying to get things worked out and I don't know yet whether
I'll be able to go for sure.
Thanks,
Kerri

On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Arielle,
> Thanks for the explanation. I attended those nice banquets and remember 
> the
>
> good time of it and the singing
> and all that went on there. It had some inspiritational speakers too; oh,
> those days; but as you said it was a while back, but time flies so it 
> seems
>
> not that far back.
>
> Anyway, there is a four hour meeting; i;'m sure it will be fun and
> informative.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:36 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room 
> Reservations
>
> DueWed 1/9
>
> Hi Ashley and all,
> The NABS meeting is sometimes on Sunday and sometimes on Monday. I'm
> not sure why they decided to do it on Monday this year. However when
> it's on Monday it has to be a half-day because the gathering-in
> meeting is at 5:00 in the same room, so the NABS meeting has to be
> done by 3:00 or so in order to give enough time to clean up and
> reorganize the room for the great gathering-in meeting.
> NABS has not had a student banquet for many years. From my
> recollection the main reason is cost. Banquets are very expensive to
> put on. Instead NABS has opted to sponsor a lower-cost and less formal
> social with a fund-raising auction. This also allows for NABS members
> to go out for dinner with friends, affiliate members, etc. before the
> social.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/8/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> In the past the nabs seminar is on Sunday. So its monday this year.
>> Why only a half day meeting? In the past it was a day or almost a day.
>> Is there no student banquet this year?
>> Also, I'm curious what people and vendors will be at the resource fair?
>> Is
>> there a registeration fee for the meeting?
>> Just wondered as some of us may come to the meeting and fair but not stay
>>
>> at
>>
>> the hotel.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:45 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT REMINDER: Washington Seminar Room Reservations
>> DueWed 1/9
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you intend on attending the NFB Washington Seminar from February 4 to
>> 7,
>> please be aware that the deadline to get room reservation requests to
>> Lisa
>> Bonderson is tomorrow, January 9 at 12:00 noon. As you know, NABS will be
>> holding our annual meeting on Monday February 4 from 9:00 to 1:00, with a
>> resource fair to follow at 2:00. We will also be holding our social event
>> and auction Monday evening. More information on all events will be
>> circulated shortly, but for now, please contact Lisa at
>> lbonderson at labarrelaw.com and let her know if you need to reserve a room
>> at
>> the Holiday Inn Capitol for your trip to DC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Look forward to seeing many of you in a month!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>

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From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  9 20:58:59 2013
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 12:58:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] discriptive presidential Inauguration
Message-ID: <1357765139.71918.YahooMailClassic@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


Does anyone know if any network or webcite is planning to provide discriptive Presidential Inauguration?

Anmol

I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 20:59:30 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:59:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CANnXs0KFxxRpR7sWJu5V3ANEOcX3H+fEGhMbp=UpZcyZjjpTOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANnXs0KFxxRpR7sWJu5V3ANEOcX3H+fEGhMbp=UpZcyZjjpTOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A79A183979B40798C2D82039B104C55@OwnerPC>

Hi,
um, why did you send it to the list?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Deb Mendelsohn
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:58 AM
To: Ric Room ; Heather D. ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list ; Elaine Cohen
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)

-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244* Smile of the day
Tim decided to tie the knot with his long time girlfriend.
One evening, after the honeymoon, he was assembling some loads for an
upcoming hunt.

His wife was standing there at the bench watching him. After along period
of silence she finally speaks.

Honey, I've been thinking, now that we are married I think it's time you
quit hunting,
shooting, hand loading, and fishing. Maybe you should sell your guns and
boat.

Tim gets this horrified look on his face.

She says, "Darling, what's wrong?"

”For a minute there you were sounding like my ex-wife.”

"Ex wife?" she screams, "I didn't know you were married before!"

”I wasn't “
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From zdreicer at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 22:28:12 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:28:12 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] What do you want to hear during a vocational
	rehabilitation call? The Membership Committee wants to hear
	from you!
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdz_bw1hA=jGUZ8rmkg6jRJcYJ3v9+uKqXB891V7mre8nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdz_bw1hA=jGUZ8rmkg6jRJcYJ3v9+uKqXB891V7mre8nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FEA19380-D2E2-4F21-A704-7A91DBC1BF52@gmail.com>

I would like more reasons to attend and nfb training center!

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:43 AM, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The NABS Membership Committee is planning to host a call about
> vocational rehab in the coming months.
> 
> We have done a rehab call in the past, but students come and go, and
> we feel that another call could be beneficial. However, there are many
> facets to vocational rehab, so the call could take several directions.
> To provide the most relevant and useful call for you, we want to know
> what you want to know about rehab. Some ideas include:
> 
> •    Justifying going to an NFB training center
> •    Effective ways to work with your counselor and information about
> typical rehab policies and how to navigate bureaucracy
> •    Ways to advocate for yourself, what you can do if you feel that your
> voice isn’t being heard, etc.
> 
> Or, we could take a different turn and do a call about how to not rely
> on voc rehab and other ways you can achieve the same services they
> provide in order to receive those services in the manner you prefer.
> 
> So please send your feedback. From the responses, we will gage what
> the majority want to hear, and then we can begin planning by locating
> experts on whatever topic you choose.
> 
> Thank you, and happy brainstorming!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> 
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 23:49:07 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:49:07 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] What do you want to hear during a vocational
	rehabilitation call? The Membership Committee wants to hear
	from you!
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdz_bw1hA=jGUZ8rmkg6jRJcYJ3v9+uKqXB891V7mre8nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdz_bw1hA=jGUZ8rmkg6jRJcYJ3v9+uKqXB891V7mre8nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C00C4ED9C7E34055A8155C7F3C45EB2E@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I think the last thing, how to get things without using rehab would be 
awesome. Also, how to pay for a masters program through rehab would be nice.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cindy Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:43 AM
To: National Asociation of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] What do you want to hear during a vocational 
rehabilitation call? The Membership Committee wants to hear from you!

The NABS Membership Committee is planning to host a call about
vocational rehab in the coming months.

We have done a rehab call in the past, but students come and go, and
we feel that another call could be beneficial. However, there are many
facets to vocational rehab, so the call could take several directions.
To provide the most relevant and useful call for you, we want to know
what you want to know about rehab. Some ideas include:

• Justifying going to an NFB training center
• Effective ways to work with your counselor and information about
typical rehab policies and how to navigate bureaucracy
• Ways to advocate for yourself, what you can do if you feel that your
voice isn’t being heard, etc.

Or, we could take a different turn and do a call about how to not rely
on voc rehab and other ways you can achieve the same services they
provide in order to receive those services in the manner you prefer.

So please send your feedback. From the responses, we will gage what
the majority want to hear, and then we can begin planning by locating
experts on whatever topic you choose.

Thank you, and happy brainstorming!


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 10 00:34:44 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 19:34:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
Message-ID: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear if I take a certain class.

Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes aren’t feasible.

How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is to write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don’t have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay for it.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Ashley

From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 00:38:53 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 19:38:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>

since i use computers for it all anyway I  e-mail it to my professor, but as you use a braille note taker and i have no idea on how it works, you'd have to see what is best for you.

mauricio
On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear if I take a certain class.
> 
> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes aren’t feasible.
> 
> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is to write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don’t have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay for it.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From opensesame at me.com  Thu Jan 10 00:41:54 2013
From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:41:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BB8BFBF-C7CB-4539-AE2C-60F857AC5AFE@me.com>

Hi Mauricio,

Here is a note I posted last year concerning the iClicker. Hope you find this helpful.

In the Spring of 2012 I successfully completed a class where the iClicker was used to take quizzes and to answer random questions and polls taken during class. This was my first experience with a clicker and I was mostly pleased with my experience. I took the following steps to make sure this would work out. As with all of my class preparations I started this process 2 or 3 months prior to the beginning of class. This is just an outline, so please email me if you have more detailed questions.

1. Determine which model iClicker your class is expected to purchase. In my case, the "iClicker 2" was specified in the course requirements.
2. Email your Prof and ask them to provide a list of *exactly* which functions you will be expected to perform in class using the iClicker. Not all models are able to perform all functions.
3. Forward that list to the iClicker customer support email address you will find on the iClicker website and ask them to tell you which iClicker model(s) can perform those functions in a manner that is accessible to you. In my case, I was told the iClicker 2 and the Webclicker iPHone App were not yet accessible to blind Users, but that a vibrating version of the original iClicker was accessible and could perform all of the functions required by my Prof.. Note that this took place in late 2011, so the accessibility of their other hardware and software models may have changed by now.
4. Verify and double-check this information with your Prof.
5. Purchase the iClicker. In my case I called my college bookstore and they ordered it and had it in hand a week later.
6. You will need to read or have somebody read a registration number on the back of the iClicker in order to register it online.
7. Meet with your Prof and discuss how best to use the clicker. In my case, the Prof gave a ten question multiple choice quiz via powerpoint slides every few days. I was able to take all of the quizzes right alongside the rest of my class with no special modifications or adjustments aside from having the Prof read the questions and answer choices aloud to the class as they were projected on the overhead screen. Out of eleven quizzes, i think I only needed to ask him to repeat a question two or three times during the semester.

HTH,
Bryan
On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello all,
> 
> some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to questions as a manner of majoring participation.
> do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work for the blind?
> if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 10 00:47:14 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 19:47:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
Message-ID: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.

How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and emailed the copy to the professor.

I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.

I look forward to ideas.

Ashley

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 00:48:45 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 19:48:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-5654002712318641104@unknownmsgid>

Ashley,

If you are taking the pop quiz on your note taker, you could either
email it to your professor or put it on a flash drive for your
professor to look at on their computer.

HTH,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Mauricio Almeida
<mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:

> since i use computers for it all anyway I  e-mail it to my professor, but as you use a braille note taker and i have no idea on how it works, you'd have to see what is best for you.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear if I take a certain class.
>>
>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes aren’t feasible.
>>
>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is to write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don’t have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay for it.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 00:52:33 2013
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 19:52:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>

All iClicker models are now accessible and you can special order them with Braille on the buttons (not really necessary if you can distinguish tactile letters), and with the vibrating mode which confirms your answer was recorded.
Jordyn
On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello all,
> 
> some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to questions as a manner of majoring participation.
> do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work for the blind?
> if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
> 
> thank you in advance,
> 
> mauricio
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 01:10:39 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 20:10:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <B7AAE05A150D48FA8EA013FC62198AA3@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I had several pop quizzes that involved writing short essays in my English 
class, so I had a scribe or fellow classmate read the questions to me, and 
then I would go out in the hall and type my answers on my laptop while the 
questions were read. My professor allowed me to email it to him after class 
or whenever I was able to access the Internet, although with my laptop I 
could access the Wifi network at school. Perhaps if you have a laptop, 
IPhone, or Android device maybe you could sync the file to one of these if 
you can get internet? Also, maybe you could take the Braille Note to the 
Disability Services office and connect it to one of the computers there and 
then sync the file and email it or put it on a thumb drive. The Disability 
Access office at my school has Jaws and Zoomtext on the computers, so if 
that is the case at your school, you may be able to transfer the file to one 
of their computers and email it there.
Hth,
Misty


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes


> Hi all,
>
> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear 
> if I take a certain class.
>
> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them orally 
> with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes aren’t 
> feasible.
>
> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is to 
> write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see 
> them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email 
> it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don’t 
> have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay for 
> it.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 01:19:12 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 20:19:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the professor 
using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing in class, if 
you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at the screen. If 
you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and let your group 
members look at the screen. I had one situation in which we had an 
assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and then place 
them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the list on 
my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member copied what I 
had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do alone in class, 
my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it whenever I was able 
to get internet access, whether it be at school or when I got home as long 
as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps you can make an 
appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out a plan or place it 
in your letter of accomodations that you need to email class assignments 
after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is a thumb drive that 
you save for this purpose that the professor can get the file from and then 
give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive, this might be a good 
option.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing


> Hi all,
>
> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its 
> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it 
> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students 
> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing. 
> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>
> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a 
> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are 
> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and 
> emailed the copy to the professor.
>
> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other 
> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over 
> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>
> I look forward to ideas.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 01:23:09 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 20:23:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
	<AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58BB0213-A10E-428A-9177-B236FCAA4A7D@gmail.com>

hi jordyn,

I can distinguish them. gladly a friend was able to show me hers before hand so i could see the letters and that tranquilized me.
thanks for the answer about vibrating mode, because that is one thing i didn't know of.

mauricio.
On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:

> All iClicker models are now accessible and you can special order them with Braille on the buttons (not really necessary if you can distinguish tactile letters), and with the vibrating mode which confirms your answer was recorded.
> Jordyn
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> hello all,
>> 
>> some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to questions as a manner of majoring participation.
>> do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work for the blind?
>> if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
>> 
>> thank you in advance,
>> 
>> mauricio
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 02:05:10 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:05:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>

What about peer editing?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing in class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at the screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which we had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and then place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or when I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out a plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is a thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive, this might be a good option.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 10 02:12:55 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:12:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google play experiences
In-Reply-To: <001201cded63$5ccb6070$16622150$@com>
References: <59714.68.41.62.184.1357504973.squirrel@lavabit.com>
	<BLU403-EAS2844F16F938FF6B4FB9C406CB240@phx.gbl>
	<001201cded63$5ccb6070$16622150$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS401510936B03E411F51769BCB2A0@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPod

On Jan 8, 2013, at 12:47 AM, "Chun Chao" <zerone1683 at gmail.com> wrote:

> In Google Play, you can download apps, buy electronic books, listen and
> purchase music, and watch and purchase movies.
> Apps categories are music & audio, media & video, entertainment, cards &
> casino, arcade & action, brain & puzzle, productivity, communication, travel
> & local, tools, books and reference, news & magazine, finance, shopping,
> photography, social, business, health & fitness, education, medical, etc.
> With Google Play Books, you can find electronic books, newspapers,
> magazines, and any other form of informational printed material in
> electronic format.
> Google Play Music lets you search for music by title, album, artist, or
> genre  as well as purchase and listen to music.
> Google Play Movies is pretty much the same as Google Play music for the
> exception that it is videos and movies.
> So do some exploring around the Google Play store and have fun.
> 
> C.C. Alan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] google play experiences
> 
> HHHi Jeef:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used google play but I've heard of it from going on to Google's
> site.
> What else can you do besides listen to music and play games?
> Thanks for reading this, and have a ood day!
> Preston Gaylor
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:44 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone ever used google play? If so can you tell me about your 
>> experiences with it, can you listen to your friends music? I am trying 
>> to diside if i should take advantage of this service from google, and 
>> wanted to know if there is any accessibility problems.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> Jeff Crouch
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotma
>> il.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com That is very cool!
Unfortantely, I don't have an Android device, but it seems interesting!
Again, thanks for letting learn more about Google Play!
Preston

From rosz1878 at fredonia.edu  Thu Jan 10 02:20:54 2013
From: rosz1878 at fredonia.edu (Lisa E Roszyk)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:20:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>

If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and get
the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:
> What about peer editing?
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing in
class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at the
screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which we
had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and then
place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or when
I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out a
plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is a
thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
this might be a good option.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>
>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are
not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>
>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>
>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>

From rosz1878 at fredonia.edu  Thu Jan 10 02:25:43 2013
From: rosz1878 at fredonia.edu (Lisa E Roszyk)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:25:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <B7AAE05A150D48FA8EA013FC62198AA3@acerd37f251f21>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<B7AAE05A150D48FA8EA013FC62198AA3@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CAPnd0v=5Ct33-XKhSVdj3Hhj7rw+zOur31pS+s6ecz6+dh9Xgg@mail.gmail.com>

Being prepared is how Ihandle it Ilet my teachers know that Ihave
alternati8ve testing so when pop quizes Ihave it set up that the teachers
have the test sent over to the testing\ disability office and when Ihave a
free minute before the nexgt tim Ihav e the class the quiz hbappened in Igo
take it

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
> I had several pop quizzes that involved writing short essays in my
English class, so I had a scribe or fellow classmate read the questions to
me, and then I would go out in the hall and type my answers on my laptop
while the questions were read. My professor allowed me to email it to him
after class or whenever I was able to access the Internet, although with my
laptop I could access the Wifi network at school. Perhaps if you have a
laptop, IPhone, or Android device maybe you could sync the file to one of
these if you can get internet? Also, maybe you could take the Braille Note
to the Disability Services office and connect it to one of the computers
there and then sync the file and email it or put it on a thumb drive. The
Disability Access office at my school has Jaws and Zoomtext on the
computers, so if that is the case at your school, you may be able to
transfer the file to one of their computers and email it there.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:34 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear
if I take a certain class.
>>
>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them
orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes
aren’t feasible.
>>
>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is
to write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to
see them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or
email it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I
don’t have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay
for it.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 04:40:37 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:40:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <CAPnd0v=5Ct33-XKhSVdj3Hhj7rw+zOur31pS+s6ecz6+dh9Xgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<B7AAE05A150D48FA8EA013FC62198AA3@acerd37f251f21>
	<CAPnd0v=5Ct33-XKhSVdj3Hhj7rw+zOur31pS+s6ecz6+dh9Xgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbjcegfEmsS5oGw_e=UyXatP+fgYC3GQtWLERtZ8Hwy8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
If you have access to a laptop that's probably the most convenient way
to do it.  Otherwise, saving your files to a flashdrive or sd card is
probbably the best way to go.  This way the professor would have
almost instant access to your materials just like how the sighted
students hand in their paper, and you wouldn't have to go anywhere or
set anything up with your ds office.  He can copy the file to his
computer and give you back your drive/card.  Just make sure you save
the file in txt or rtf format if it's not your BrailleNote's default
file type.  I've saved tests so many times in a braille format because
I wasn't thinking and had to go back in and change it so my professors
could read lol.

On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
> Being prepared is how Ihandle it Ilet my teachers know that Ihave
> alternati8ve testing so when pop quizes Ihave it set up that the teachers
> have the test sent over to the testing\ disability office and when Ihave a
> free minute before the nexgt tim Ihav e the class the quiz hbappened in Igo
> take it
>
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I had several pop quizzes that involved writing short essays in my
> English class, so I had a scribe or fellow classmate read the questions to
> me, and then I would go out in the hall and type my answers on my laptop
> while the questions were read. My professor allowed me to email it to him
> after class or whenever I was able to access the Internet, although with my
> laptop I could access the Wifi network at school. Perhaps if you have a
> laptop, IPhone, or Android device maybe you could sync the file to one of
> these if you can get internet? Also, maybe you could take the Braille Note
> to the Disability Services office and connect it to one of the computers
> there and then sync the file and email it or put it on a thumb drive. The
> Disability Access office at my school has Jaws and Zoomtext on the
> computers, so if that is the case at your school, you may be able to
> transfer the file to one of their computers and email it there.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:34 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear
> if I take a certain class.
>>>
>>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them
> orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes
> aren’t feasible.
>>>
>>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is
> to write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to
> see them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or
> email it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I
> don’t have internet access on the notetaker and don’t know if I want to pay
> for it.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 04:45:34 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:45:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
or do anything with it later.

Hope this helps.

On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and get
> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> What about peer editing?
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing in
> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at the
> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which we
> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and then
> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or when
> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out a
> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is a
> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
> this might be a good option.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are
> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From colorado.students at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 05:00:56 2013
From: colorado.students at gmail.com (colorado.students at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 22:00:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <-5654002712318641104@unknownmsgid>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>
	<-5654002712318641104@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAAFcEPhoy4ZBMsl3Qbn+gAs4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hello if you are taking a quiz I would suggest that you do it on an
electronic device and then email it to the teacher/instructor. Also, I think
all students should be able to take quiz's that are not planned but happen
at the last minute in class.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 5:49 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes

Ashley,

If you are taking the pop quiz on your note taker, you could either email it
to your professor or put it on a flash drive for your professor to look at
on their computer.

HTH,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com>
wrote:

> since i use computers for it all anyway I  e-mail it to my professor, but
as you use a braille note taker and i have no idea on how it works, you'd
have to see what is best for you.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear
if I take a certain class.
>>
>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them
orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes
aren't feasible.
>>
>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is to
write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see
them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email
it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don't have
internet access on the notetaker and don't know if I want to pay for it.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida
>> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai
l.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 05:05:43 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:05:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAAFcEPhoy4ZBMsl3Qbn+gAs4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>
	<-5654002712318641104@unknownmsgid>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAAFcEPhoy4ZBMsl3Qbn+gAs4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbMEbVFzUykUuLPsr0oTS0A2aaXvQSXvyq4XEs3yS6iTg@mail.gmail.com>

I definitely agree.  We all want to be treated like the other
students, so it makes sense to include ourselves in pop quizes and
things like that if possible.  Of course larger tests and certainly
exams are a different story, but for something small it can be done in
class.  ;

On 1/10/13, colorado.students at gmail.com <colorado.students at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello if you are taking a quiz I would suggest that you do it on an
> electronic device and then email it to the teacher/instructor. Also, I
> think
> all students should be able to take quiz's that are not planned but happen
> at the last minute in class.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
> nusbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 5:49 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
>
> Ashley,
>
> If you are taking the pop quiz on your note taker, you could either email
> it
> to your professor or put it on a flash drive for your professor to look at
> on their computer.
>
> HTH,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> since i use computers for it all anyway I  e-mail it to my professor, but
> as you use a braille note taker and i have no idea on how it works, you'd
> have to see what is best for you.
>>
>> mauricio
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may appear
> if I take a certain class.
>>>
>>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them
> orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes
> aren't feasible.
>>>
>>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is
>>> to
> write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see
> them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or email
> it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don't have
> internet access on the notetaker and don't know if I want to pay for it.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida
>>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai
> l.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 05:12:49 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:12:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FacKN8JhP-9m4vKcQ5QicjiWAK47ObgoVOAJmecpw96+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lavonya,

I have a little bit of vision out of one eye.  Enough to see basic
shapes and colors and stuff but nothing in great detail unless it's
pretty close to my face.  For learning signs I usually have another
student from the class who has volunteered to help me learn the signs
put my hands in the correct positions or verbally instruct me,
depending on how complex the sign is.

Feel free to write me off-list!

On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> it is done at hearing speech agency. i will ask her if she can do that. she
> has worked with deaf blind. so how much vission do u have.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:22, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lavonya,
>>
>> I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
>> college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
>> (conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
>> concerts accessible to the deaf.
>>
>> Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
>> or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
>> copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
>> best for you.
>>
>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind person,
>>> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use my
>>> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do let
>>> me
>>> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.  How
>>> do
>>> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my pad.
>>> So
>>> it is just the reading.
>>> Thanks
>>> Lavonnya
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 05:43:05 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:43:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbMEbVFzUykUuLPsr0oTS0A2aaXvQSXvyq4XEs3yS6iTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4C58C9A6AE74CBD9E07B84CA251246A@OwnerPC>
	<1E1D2DF8-0D4A-402A-A817-9BAE878701B8@gmail.com>
	<-5654002712318641104@unknownmsgid>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAAFcEPhoy4ZBMsl3Qbn+gAs4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbMEbVFzUykUuLPsr0oTS0A2aaXvQSXvyq4XEs3yS6iTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJq9a1Rut94m-x8VvCxS8=O61E05o5DRsEr6TmuzcgYgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi...  I usually warn the professors that if they want to do pop
quizes, they should email them to me before the class starts or send
them over to disability services so that they can email it to me right
before the class.  I have had professors who prefer to write the quiz
questions on the board.  In that situation, there will usually only be
a couple questions, and you should have time for the professor to
dictate them to you quickly before class.  I always wrote the
questions at the top of my quiz paper just in case.

I used my laptop to email the professors the quiz, but if you don't
have one, you can give it to your professor on a flash drive like the
others suggested.  The main thing i would say is to be sure and tell
that professor how you would like to handle taking a pop quiz so you
don't end up have confusion on the day you're supposed to take one.

On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I definitely agree.  We all want to be treated like the other
> students, so it makes sense to include ourselves in pop quizes and
> things like that if possible.  Of course larger tests and certainly
> exams are a different story, but for something small it can be done in
> class.  ;
>
> On 1/10/13, colorado.students at gmail.com <colorado.students at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hello if you are taking a quiz I would suggest that you do it on an
>> electronic device and then email it to the teacher/instructor. Also, I
>> think
>> all students should be able to take quiz's that are not planned but
>> happen
>> at the last minute in class.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
>> nusbaum
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 5:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having pop quizzes
>>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> If you are taking the pop quiz on your note taker, you could either email
>> it
>> to your professor or put it on a flash drive for your professor to look
>> at
>> on their computer.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Mauricio Almeida
>> <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> since i use computers for it all anyway I  e-mail it to my professor,
>>> but
>> as you use a braille note taker and i have no idea on how it works, you'd
>> have to see what is best for you.
>>>
>>> mauricio
>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I know pop quizzes are rare, but they do appear sometimes and may
>>>> appear
>> if I take a certain class.
>>>>
>>>> Normally, I take quizzes in the testing center on a pc or take them
>> orally with the professor. But if more writing is involved, oral quizzes
>> aren't feasible.
>>>>
>>>> How do you deal with pop quizzes? The only other way I can think of is
>>>> to
>> write answers on my braille note but then the professor would have to see
>> them somehow. I suppose I could save it on a usb drive or sd card or
>> email
>> it to them. I think the saving the file would be best because  I don't
>> have
>> internet access on the notetaker and don't know if I want to pay for it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:39:23 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:39:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FacKN8JhP-9m4vKcQ5QicjiWAK47ObgoVOAJmecpw96+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FacKN8JhP-9m4vKcQ5QicjiWAK47ObgoVOAJmecpw96+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02F140AD-2052-46B6-A522-784D8B0A7712@gmail.com>

Hi Katy. 
I think it is so cool that u r taking sign language. I wish more blind people would take ASL. That way I could communicate with them. And even better, there is a great need for blind people who could work with deaf blind, autistic blind, and have really high paying jobs doing it. We need to be able to communicate just like everyone else. I can tell u that being blind and autistic, can be really interesting when dealing with any business situation. especially when u r dealing with people like RSA or dors. they r either told that i am blind, but not told of that i am autism, or, told that i am autistic but not told that i am blind. but both need to be addressed. or they have no clue how to communicate with me, as i do better with nonverbal language, such as writing, and even better sign language. though most blind people that i talk to, insist that they cannot learn ASL, because they can't see. and they insist that i "JUST TALK, SO THAT I CAN B HEARD." Well of course that doesn't work. So they give up on trying to get to no me. for something I cannot help. So thank u. u have no idea what this means to me, and those like me. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 10, 2013, at 0:12, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lavonya,
> 
> I have a little bit of vision out of one eye.  Enough to see basic
> shapes and colors and stuff but nothing in great detail unless it's
> pretty close to my face.  For learning signs I usually have another
> student from the class who has volunteered to help me learn the signs
> put my hands in the correct positions or verbally instruct me,
> depending on how complex the sign is.
> 
> Feel free to write me off-list!
> 
> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it is done at hearing speech agency. i will ask her if she can do that. she
>> has worked with deaf blind. so how much vission do u have.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:22, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Lavonya,
>>> 
>>> I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
>>> college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
>>> (conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
>>> concerts accessible to the deaf.
>>> 
>>> Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
>>> or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
>>> copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
>>> best for you.
>>> 
>>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind person,
>>>> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use my
>>>> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do let
>>>> me
>>>> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.  How
>>>> do
>>>> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my pad.
>>>> So
>>>> it is just the reading.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Lavonnya
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From member at linkedin.com  Thu Jan 10 15:46:34 2013
From: member at linkedin.com (Deb Mendelsohn via LinkedIn)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:46:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <1351019247.3440698.1357832794802.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2308.prod>

LinkedIn
------------




    Deb Mendelsohn requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
  

------------------------------------------

Eric,

I'd like to include you in my network to share updates and stay in touch.

- Deb

Accept invitation from Deb Mendelsohn
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-hbs2l5t4-5y/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I426559861_11/3wOtCVFbmdxnSVFbm8JrnpKqlZJrmZzbmNJpjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP4NnP4Se3ARdjoOd4ALtmBOjl0VqloLc3sVc3kNd34Qc34LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=3LRxOpYWaik5A1

View profile of Deb Mendelsohn
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-hbs2l5t4-5y/rso/182105075/Ijuw/name/85813888_I426559861_11/?hs=false&tok=3Tdfph5e-ik5A1
------------------------------------------
You are receiving Invitation emails.


This email was intended for Eric Gaudes.
Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-hbs2l5t4-5y/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2D6SS9xKGik5A1

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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 19:10:02 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:10:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <02F140AD-2052-46B6-A522-784D8B0A7712@gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FacKN8JhP-9m4vKcQ5QicjiWAK47ObgoVOAJmecpw96+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<02F140AD-2052-46B6-A522-784D8B0A7712@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbOtavmnVz22QyNzMD=pAZKUHh+gDFNv38zrxsBJkc7KA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lavonya,

Actually, I'm not exactly learning ASL.  The class I'm taking is a
sign-singing choir, so we sign to music.  This means we have to be
able to sign pretty quickly, so we use Pigeon, which is basically the
signs of ASL but without the finger spelling attached.  So we don't
have words with ing or er on the end, just the roots of words.  It's
kind of odd when you hear the translation spoken out loud, but it
works.

On 1/10/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Katy.
> I think it is so cool that u r taking sign language. I wish more blind
> people would take ASL. That way I could communicate with them. And even
> better, there is a great need for blind people who could work with deaf
> blind, autistic blind, and have really high paying jobs doing it. We need to
> be able to communicate just like everyone else. I can tell u that being
> blind and autistic, can be really interesting when dealing with any business
> situation. especially when u r dealing with people like RSA or dors. they r
> either told that i am blind, but not told of that i am autism, or, told that
> i am autistic but not told that i am blind. but both need to be addressed.
> or they have no clue how to communicate with me, as i do better with
> nonverbal language, such as writing, and even better sign language. though
> most blind people that i talk to, insist that they cannot learn ASL, because
> they can't see. and they insist that i "JUST TALK, SO THAT I CAN B HEARD."
> Well of course that doesn't work. So they give up on trying to get to no me.
> for something I cannot help. So thank u. u have no idea what this means to
> me, and those like me.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 0:12, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lavonya,
>>
>> I have a little bit of vision out of one eye.  Enough to see basic
>> shapes and colors and stuff but nothing in great detail unless it's
>> pretty close to my face.  For learning signs I usually have another
>> student from the class who has volunteered to help me learn the signs
>> put my hands in the correct positions or verbally instruct me,
>> depending on how complex the sign is.
>>
>> Feel free to write me off-list!
>>
>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it is done at hearing speech agency. i will ask her if she can do that.
>>> she
>>> has worked with deaf blind. so how much vission do u have.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:22, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Lavonya,
>>>>
>>>> I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
>>>> college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
>>>> (conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
>>>> concerts accessible to the deaf.
>>>>
>>>> Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
>>>> or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
>>>> copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
>>>> best for you.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind
>>>>> person,
>>>>> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use
>>>>> my
>>>>> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do
>>>>> let
>>>>> me
>>>>> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.
>>>>> How
>>>>> do
>>>>> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my
>>>>> pad.
>>>>> So
>>>>> it is just the reading.
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Lavonnya
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 21:15:51 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:15:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley and all:
I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
just like to add a few pointers.
In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
be done along with everyone else in class.
If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
things.
1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
assignment.
Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
student population, and entities will take the few instances where
accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
learn?

Ok, that's my rant for the day.
Mary


On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
> or do anything with it later.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>> get
>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> What about peer editing?
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>> in
>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>> the
>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>> we
>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>> then
>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>> when
>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>> a
>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is
>> a
>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>> this might be a good option.
>>>> Hth,
>>>> Misty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>> the
>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> are
>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From anthony at olivero.us  Thu Jan 10 22:13:17 2013
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:13:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [WebAIM] Survey,
	how do screen reader users navigate within websites
In-Reply-To: <50ef3bf7.a696320a.43c9.ffff9ca2@mx.google.com>
References: <50ef3bf7.a696320a.43c9.ffff9ca2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <056d01cdef7f$b4095d10$1c1c1730$@olivero.us>

Please take a moment and help these folks out with their research. They are
seeking input from screen reader users, regardless of experience.

-----Original Message-----
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson [mailto:birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:32
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Survey, how do screen reader users navigate within
websites

Hello listers.

Me and my colleague are carrying out research into how much users take
advantage of structural markup on websites (headings, landmarks, table
navigation).
We want to get as much feedback as possible, from a diverse user group
of screen reader users.
This is part of a research project e are working on, which also
includes field test with users.
We are hoping this may lead to online tutorials, videos or other
material that will help ensure screen reader users can take advantage
of this type of markup.
(I know we concentrate on screen reader users for this particular
survey, but we are hoping to perhaps do similar things in future to
make sure users can fully take advantage of WCAG compliant and
accessible websites).
You can access the survey at the following link:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XGC33NV

The survey consists of 9 questions, should take about 5 minutes to
complete, and users may not know all the answers (in fact, we suspect
they may not), and should not be embarrassed about it (for one thing
the survey is totaly anonymous).
Feel free to distribute (and also free not to).
I'll share the results with you, both at CSUN and on this list.
Hopefully we can turn this into another tool to help encourage
accessible webpage design, UA interpretation and, ultimately,
something to benefit some of our end users.
Cheers
-B
_______________________________________________
To manage your subscription, visit http://list.webaim.org/
Address list messages to webaim-forum at list.webaim.org





From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 10 22:25:26 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:25:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <D0E7C13E7AF44C24A74764FDD5009069@OwnerPC>

Misty,
Thanks for your response. This is what I thought everyone would say.
I work much better with braille so my old braille note is my method of 
notetaking.

I don't think its my job to bring in a laptop for this part of the class. 
Its extremely inconvenient. I have no method to safely secure it outside 
class or even if I go to the bathroom, I cannot monitor it so its not 
stolen.
You said
"
As far as assignments that I do alone in class,
my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it whenever I was able
to get internet access, whether it be at school or when I got home as long
as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. "

Yes, same here; perhaps I'll just continue  to email it to them at home or 
if I have time to walk to the computer lab with jaws, I'll email it there.
My notetaker does have a thumb drive port, but  as I said it is old and half 
the time it will not recognize the thumb drive.
I think your idea to save to a thumb drive and hand it to the professor is a 
good one, but it will only work if
my braille note cooperates.

I guess the best two options are type it and email it later; or type it and 
save  it to  a thumb drive. Professors are generally fine if I talk to them 
about needing accomodations in class. Sometimes if the writing is done at 
the end of class, they say I can leave and just do my work later if I get it 
to them that day.

As for peer editing that Chris asked about, that has been very challenging! 
I just have students read their papers to me. I bring in a hard copy and 
exchange it with someone else. I've asked professors about getting work via 
electronic copy and they've said this won't work since drafts are due at 
beginning of class nor do they know my partner. So I cannot get an 
electronic copy from a classmate.

Well, we'll just see what this professor says about in class assignments. I 
am pretty sure she'll be flexible with me knowing I cannot write print and 
hand it in.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi,
As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the professor
using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing in class, if
you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at the screen. If
you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and let your group
members look at the screen. I had one situation in which we had an
assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and then place
them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the list on
my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member copied what I
had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do alone in class,
my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it whenever I was able
to get internet access, whether it be at school or when I got home as long
as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps you can make an
appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out a plan or place it
in your letter of accomodations that you need to email class assignments
after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is a thumb drive that
you save for this purpose that the professor can get the file from and then
give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive, this might be a good
option.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing


> Hi all,
>
> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its 
> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it 
> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students 
> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing. 
> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>
> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a 
> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are 
> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and 
> emailed the copy to the professor.
>
> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other 
> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over 
> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>
> I look forward to ideas.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 10 23:35:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:35:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <3CAF6B25959E48E9BD56B428FD3F5926@OwnerPC>

Chris,
With peer editing, I just have the student read to me or the professor does. 
Then I ask then to write any comments I have on their paper.
I wish I could do this electronically, but we team up to exchange papers day 
of class, so I cannot get it ahead of time.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 9:05 PM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

What about peer editing?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi,
> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the 
> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing 
> in class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at 
> the screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out 
> and let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in 
> which we had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of 
> things and then place them on a white board for the class to see, so I 
> just took down the list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while 
> another group member copied what I had written onto the board. As far as 
> assignments that I do alone in class, my professors so far have been fine 
> with me emailing it whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it 
> be at school or when I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the 
> assignment. Perhaps you can make an appointment with the professor ahead 
> of time to work out a plan or place it in your letter of accomodations 
> that you need to email class assignments after class is over or at home. 
> Another way to do it is a thumb drive that you save for this purpose that 
> the professor can get the file from and then give back to you. If your 
> note taker has a USB drive, this might be a good option.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically 
>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows 
>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. 
>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in 
>> the writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as 
>> well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a 
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we 
>> are not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and 
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to 
>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over 
>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 01:47:24 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:47:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>

i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley and all:
> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
> just like to add a few pointers.
> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
> be done along with everyone else in class.
> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
> things.
> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
> assignment.
> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
> learn?
> 
> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
> Mary
> 
> 
> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>> or do anything with it later.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>> get
>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>>> in
>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>> the
>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>> we
>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>> then
>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>> when
>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>>> a
>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is
>>> a
>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>> the
>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>> are
>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mary Fernandez
> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
> feel."
> —
> Maya Angelou
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 01:56:48 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:56:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>

Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.

Deb


On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its
> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students
> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing.
> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>
> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are
> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
> emailed the copy to the professor.
>
> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other
> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>
> I look forward to ideas.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>



-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*

From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 02:00:25 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:00:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] WAY COOL CLASS, JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbOtavmnVz22QyNzMD=pAZKUHh+gDFNv38zrxsBJkc7KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E320A7E2-4D45-42E7-BA9C-5A7193056183@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYg+gvseO5gsQGKRD=BFED_QH+XtoyQRiCu2F3ZAUqBRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<357CE313-22E4-4589-8716-2E7985FB9913@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FacKN8JhP-9m4vKcQ5QicjiWAK47ObgoVOAJmecpw96+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<02F140AD-2052-46B6-A522-784D8B0A7712@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbOtavmnVz22QyNzMD=pAZKUHh+gDFNv38zrxsBJkc7KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1FCDE8B-9DAB-40E1-BA68-C506ECF3E306@gmail.com>

i finger spell when and if i have to. but i do better with words and fraises. i sign music in church, and sometimes i try to keep up with the lu tinant. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 10, 2013, at 14:10, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lavonya,
> 
> Actually, I'm not exactly learning ASL.  The class I'm taking is a
> sign-singing choir, so we sign to music.  This means we have to be
> able to sign pretty quickly, so we use Pigeon, which is basically the
> signs of ASL but without the finger spelling attached.  So we don't
> have words with ing or er on the end, just the roots of words.  It's
> kind of odd when you hear the translation spoken out loud, but it
> works.
> 
> On 1/10/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Katy.
>> I think it is so cool that u r taking sign language. I wish more blind
>> people would take ASL. That way I could communicate with them. And even
>> better, there is a great need for blind people who could work with deaf
>> blind, autistic blind, and have really high paying jobs doing it. We need to
>> be able to communicate just like everyone else. I can tell u that being
>> blind and autistic, can be really interesting when dealing with any business
>> situation. especially when u r dealing with people like RSA or dors. they r
>> either told that i am blind, but not told of that i am autism, or, told that
>> i am autistic but not told that i am blind. but both need to be addressed.
>> or they have no clue how to communicate with me, as i do better with
>> nonverbal language, such as writing, and even better sign language. though
>> most blind people that i talk to, insist that they cannot learn ASL, because
>> they can't see. and they insist that i "JUST TALK, SO THAT I CAN B HEARD."
>> Well of course that doesn't work. So they give up on trying to get to no me.
>> for something I cannot help. So thank u. u have no idea what this means to
>> me, and those like me.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 0:12, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Lavonya,
>>> 
>>> I have a little bit of vision out of one eye.  Enough to see basic
>>> shapes and colors and stuff but nothing in great detail unless it's
>>> pretty close to my face.  For learning signs I usually have another
>>> student from the class who has volunteered to help me learn the signs
>>> put my hands in the correct positions or verbally instruct me,
>>> depending on how complex the sign is.
>>> 
>>> Feel free to write me off-list!
>>> 
>>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> it is done at hearing speech agency. i will ask her if she can do that.
>>>> she
>>>> has worked with deaf blind. so how much vission do u have.
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:22, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Lavonya,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am starting my second semester of a sign-singing choir at my
>>>>> college.  Not quite the same thing, but we learn pigeon,
>>>>> (conversational sign language), and sign it to music to make choir
>>>>> concerts accessible to the deaf.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would your disabilities office be able to blow up or enlarge your fant
>>>>> or convert it to braille?  Or perhaps your professor could email you
>>>>> copies and you can print them out with the fant settings that work
>>>>> best for you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/9/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> i started my sign language class last night. i am the only blind
>>>>>> person,
>>>>>> also the only autistic person. i do the signing very well. i can use
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> telescope to see the teacher, and the class as well as the teacher do
>>>>>> let
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> feel tfheir hands. my problem is that i cannot read the parperwork.
>>>>>> How
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> I deal with that. Just the reading. I am able to do the writin on my
>>>>>> pad.
>>>>>> So
>>>>>> it is just the reading.
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Lavonnya
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
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From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 02:00:41 2013
From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:00:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re: [Jobs] {Disarmed} FW: Disability.gov
 Update: Labor Department Kicks Off Media Campaign Encouraging Youth with
 Disabilities to Pursue Their Career Goals
In-Reply-To: <002701cdef9a$6ec15b20$4c441160$@com>
References: <002701cdef9a$6ec15b20$4c441160$@com>
Message-ID: <CANnXs0+6Ro+pXL5Q+ZXKWiKWG2ksQ40ThgmQ2svxW5-Jzymffg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michelle Clark <mcikeyc at aol.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:24 PM
Subject: [Jobs] {Disarmed} FW: Disability.gov Update: Labor Department
Kicks Off Media Campaign Encouraging Youth with Disabilities to Pursue
Their Career Goals
To: jobs at nfbnet.org


 Hello All,****

** **

This may be a good opportunity for our youth. Perhaps, someone can forward
this to the NABS list serve.****

** **

Thanks,****

** **

Michelle****

** **

** **

** **

** **

*From:* Disability.gov [mailto:disability.gov at service.govdelivery.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:49 AM
*To:* mcikeyc at aol.com
*Subject:* Disability.gov Update: Labor Department Kicks Off Media Campaign
Encouraging Youth with Disabilities to Pursue Their Career Goals****

** **

[image: Disability.gov
updates]<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTMwMTEwLjE0MjEwNjkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDExMC4xNDIxMDY5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MzQzNTkxJmVtYWlsaWQ9bWNpa2V5Y0Bhb2wuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tY2lrZXljQGFvbC5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0ZUlkPSYmJg==&&&100&&&https://www.disability.gov/>
****

*Labor Department Kicks Off Media Campaign Encouraging Youth with
Disabilities to Pursue Their Career
Goals<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTMwMTEwLjE0MjEwNjkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDExMC4xNDIxMDY5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MzQzNTkxJmVtYWlsaWQ9bWNpa2V5Y0Bhb2wuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tY2lrZXljQGFvbC5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0ZUlkPSYmJg==&&&101&&&http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/odep/ODEP20122469.htm#.UO1XHxzayRE>
*****

The U.S. Department of Labor's Campaign for Disability
Employment<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTMwMTEwLjE0MjEwNjkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDExMC4xNDIxMDY5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MzQzNTkxJmVtYWlsaWQ9bWNpa2V5Y0Bhb2wuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tY2lrZXljQGFvbC5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0ZUlkPSYmJg==&&&102&&&http://www.dol.gov/odep/topics/CampaignForDisabilityEmployment.htm>has
released a new video public service announcement (PSA) called
"Because"<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTMwMTEwLjE0MjEwNjkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDExMC4xNDIxMDY5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MzQzNTkxJmVtYWlsaWQ9bWNpa2V5Y0Bhb2wuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tY2lrZXljQGFvbC5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0ZUlkPSYmJg==&&&103&&&http://www.whatcanyoudocampaign.org/>.
The campaign is aimed at youth with disabilities and their mentors to help
them pursue their career goals and passions. The PSA has real people with
disabilities - not actors - who are pursuing their career goals because of
the support they have received from everyday people in their lives.****

*Visit Disability.gov<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTMwMTEwLjE0MjEwNjkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDExMC4xNDIxMDY5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MzQzNTkxJmVtYWlsaWQ9bWNpa2V5Y0Bhb2wuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tY2lrZXljQGFvbC5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0ZUlkPSYmJg==&&&104&&&https://www.disability.gov/search/list?q=&facetPrefix=1%2FEmployment&fq=topics%3A%22Employment%22&fq=locations%3Anational&fq=subTopics%3A%221%2FEmployment%2FPreparing+Youth+for+Employment%22>for
information about employment programs for youth.
*****

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-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 02:22:26 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:22:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>
> Deb
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> its
>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> Students
>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> writing.
>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> are
>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> other
>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 03:59:01 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:59:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
students and your professor also in the classroom.
2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
problems that you or your professor might forsee.
Aleeha

On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>
>> Deb
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>> its
>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> Students
>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>> writing.
>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>
>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>> are
>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>
>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> other
>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> over
>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>
>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 04:10:28 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:10:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21><-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid><CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com><CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>

Lavonya,
nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or 
use the screen?
I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for 
writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to write 
on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? email?
Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text format?
Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.

That's nice an ipad works for you.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the teacher, 
in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the written 
assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really doing. i 
use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, that a 
teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley and all:
> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
> just like to add a few pointers.
> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
> be done along with everyone else in class.
> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
> things.
> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
> assignment.
> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
> learn?
>
> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
> Mary
>
>
> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>> or do anything with it later.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm 
>>> back
>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>> get
>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>>> in
>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>> the
>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>> we
>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>> then
>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down 
>>> the
>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I 
>>> do
>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>> when
>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>>> a
>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it 
>>> is
>>> a
>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get 
>>> the
>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. 
>>>>>> Typically
>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor 
>>> knows
>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>> the
>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as 
>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on 
>>>>>> a
>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>> are
>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Mary Fernandez
> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
> feel."
> —
> Maya Angelou
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 04:14:08 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:14:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED3C90DE50EA4BEAB2D7D50821764517@OwnerPC>

Well, as I said, email may or may not be possible as not all classes have 
wi-fi.
Yes, I have a laptop, but my primary notetaker that I carry to school is my 
braille note.
Besides I would rather not do that because the laptop is heavy, no where to 
secure it,
and the laptop seems to have tech issues. I just got it repared with a new 
hard drive, but I saw it freeze the other day.
Finally, rehab won't get me equipment. I'm a continuing education student 
pursuing a certificate.
Deb, you have to justify rehab purchases, and I cannot justify anything 
without a job offer. They wsay they will buy equipment when I have a job 
lined up.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Deb Mendelsohn
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.

Deb


On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically its
> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing. Students
> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the writing.
> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>
> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we are
> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
> emailed the copy to the professor.
>
> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to other
> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>
> I look forward to ideas.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>



-- 
*Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 04:20:04 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:20:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC>

Hi arielle,
great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern 
there was that
it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software on 
it.
You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations. 
Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more 
easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and 
know what you are doing.


How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying around a 
laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more 
technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi all,
I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>
> Deb
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> its
>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> Students
>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> writing.
>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> are
>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> other
>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 04:28:01 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:28:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.

Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
and light-weight would make it easier.

Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.

On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> Aleeha
>
> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its
>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it
>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students
>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>> writing.
>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other
>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over
>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 04:34:06 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:34:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBZdQVH1j36xMdQe+O6wriSCnLX5d-PVu2-KfMgo2RWNQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am using my netbook to type this email and have used it to complete
school assignments for the past three years. It runs JAWS, Internet
browsers, email clients, and Microsoft Office applications. I have had
occasional freezes since switching to Windows 7 but I think that's
because my particular netbook was meant for XP. There shouldn't be any
problem with running JAWS on a netbook and using Office applications
and Internet browsing.
I don't remember my netbook's weight off-hand, but I'd say probably
about 2 lbs. It definitely feels lighter than my laptop.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
> of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
> ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.
>
> Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
> have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
> hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
> and light-weight would make it easier.
>
> Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
> now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
> devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
> of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
> pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
> things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
> do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
> things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
> them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
> getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
> you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
> layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
> of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
> noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
> technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
> what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
> in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
> turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
> to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.
>
> On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> Aleeha
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>
>>>> Deb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>>> its
>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>>> it
>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students
>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>> writing.
>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other
>>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over
>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 04:35:07 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:35:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCytzTksqYjqjRxtJJ24p46SCaYALmjdTaUS2EGX7AG9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAdv8fpvg4FMz1efRHO-5BNh=B1fuwMmmZYy166hcg5RysOiKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJA2EGJ+mNYa1j1M6tZqTeoFSH3zL-6MAWmPe4SLHvWT5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CECED86D-C397-4229-B955-FC161B40CF9E@gmail.com>
	<CA+OnPfEPWrkKT3Btm6t6EJX3PkYrwjTMYoRNJRcUpP==-18hxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCytzTksqYjqjRxtJJ24p46SCaYALmjdTaUS2EGX7AG9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nRnmtr-8aqApftzbrQW8eO6hL7cqNuPe5EaLiYETHbmKw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
     Sorry to jump in late on this one, but I'm also willing to talk
to anyone who needs advice about chemistry. I've taken two semesters
of general chemistry with lab and am currently taking organic
chemistry with lab. The best way to reach me is through another
address since this one does not get checked regularly. It is:
dudleya2 at miamioh.edu
I would also be able to talk about biology lectures and labs with
anyone as well.HTH,
Aleeha

On 1/3/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Lily,
> I earned a biology degree in college and I took general chemistry
> (lectures and labs) and organic chemistry (lecture only). When I took
> the general chemistry labs I relied on lab partners and readers to do
> most of the actual chemical mixing and to relay observations and
> measurements to me. However that was back in 2005 and fortunately some
> things have changed since then. There is a blind student at my
> university named Amelia Dickerson who is studying to be a science
> teacher and has made some adaptations so that she can independently
> measure chemicals and access some of the data without relying on
> readers. You can write to her at
> ameliadickerson at gmail.com
> Independence Science also has some stuff, though some of it will be a
> little expensive. Amelia can tell you about some lower-tech solutions
> and whether or not you want to invest in the more expensive ones is up
> to you. If you're just taking one or two classes and don't plan to be
> a professional chemist or earn a graduate degree in chemistry then you
> might prefer to just use the low-tech solutions and get some support
> from a reader.
> I did not take the O-chem lab but my advice from the lecture is to be
> sure to get one of those molecular modeling kits from the bookstore
> (it should come with your textbook) and talk with the professor about
> giving you three-dimensional models of molecules whenever possible. My
> professor was great about this and even gave me 3D models instead of
> diagrams on the exams so I could take them independently.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 1/3/13, Liliya Asadullina <lily2011a at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Speaking of chemistry and science courses, have any of you taken
>> organic chemistry or biochemistry?  If so, what are some skills you
>> used as a blind student to understand the material and do the
>> experiments independently or with a partner, but making sure you do an
>> equal share of the experiment.  Is it worth it for me to get the
>> chemistry equipment that they have for the blind out there.  I am
>> currently a freshmenn in college, but would like to pursue a major
>> that will get me into the medical field.  As of now, I am thinking
>> either dietetics or pediatric Nurse practitioner and I am sure these
>> majors will both acquire me to take chemistry.
>> Any tips or ideas are helpful.
>> Thanks a bunch!
>> Cheers to all and all a happy new year.
>> Lily
>>
>> On 12/11/12, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Just to supplement what Arielle said, I am a zoology major in college at
>>> the
>>> moment and have taken three semesters of chemistry and biology courses.
>>> I
>>> also write out the Greek letters. For reaction arrows, I simply write
>>> yields
>>> or equilibrium with, depending on the type of reaction. Feel free to
>>> email
>>> me off list if you have other questions about science courses. I would
>>> be
>>> more than happy to help.
>>>
>>> Aleeha dudley
>>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Danielle,
>>>> There are ways to create arrows and Greek letters in Microsoft Word,
>>>> but  JAWS usually doesn't read them properly. When doing homework it
>>>> is important that you can read your own homework assignments to use
>>>> them for review. What I have done for years (since high school) has
>>>> been to make up my own symbols. For example, instead of inserting the
>>>> Greek letter theta, I literally write out the word "theta". I have
>>>> done this for multiple biology, chemistry, math and physics classes
>>>> and never once had a teacher complain that I wasn't using the real
>>>> symbols.
>>>> If you have a Braille notetaker you may be able to do some fancy
>>>> things with LATX so that the Greek letters show up in proper Nemeth on
>>>> your Braille display. If you are interested in pursuing this option
>>>> further, I suggest joining the BlindMath list and asking there.
>>>> Best of luck,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 12/10/12, Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>> For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as
>>>>> arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible
>>>>> on a computer? Any help would be appreciated.
>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 05:00:17 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:00:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I got a netbook on sale for $200 a couple of years ago in an after-Christmas 
sale. I am still using it today. It is very light compared to a normal 
laptop, and I have a lot of things installed on mine, including Jaws, 
although it is an XP. The netbooks out now pretty much have Windows 7, but 
there is still plenty of memory for running Jaws, Microsoft Word, and other 
programs. My netbook came with 1 gb of RAM and a 160 gb harddrive which 
holds everything I have and still has 40 or 50 gb left over. You can also 
upgrade the memory in some netbooks, and they usually come with Wifi 
connectivity so you can access Wifi. The netbook is much smaller and lighter 
than a standard laptop. I have seen some online for as low as about $260, so 
they seem to be more affordable as far as price goes. I have an Acer 
netbook, and it has been pretty reliable since I purchased it back in the 
beginning of 2011. They also come with all of the standard ports, such as 
USB, Ethernet, earphone, and external microphone jack, although the netbook 
already has a built-in speaker, microphone, and webcam usually.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing


Hi arielle,
great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern
there was that
it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software on
it.
You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations.
Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more
easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and
know what you are doing.


How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying around a
laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more
technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi all,
I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>
> Deb
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> its
>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> Students
>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> writing.
>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> are
>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> other
>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 05:02:58 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:02:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F605580C55240B58C56771D47735626@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
All of this is true. I also password-protect my laptop and netbook so no one 
can get into it. Also, if security is an issue, you may even be able to lock 
your bag with a small luggage lock to ensure that your valuable equipment is 
protected.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing


Hi Ashley,

In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.

Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
and light-weight would make it easier.

Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.

On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> Aleeha
>
> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its
>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it
>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students
>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>> writing.
>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other
>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over
>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 05:02:27 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:02:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BEBB5E7AFC64093B99C2E51087C81DD@OwnerPC>

hi,
I am going to try and use what I have though as purchasing new equipment 
would be kind of hard.
I've always used my notetaker to take notes in class; 9 times out of ten I 
find it works fine.
Its just that some professors want to give  writing in class sometimes 
including my upcoming religion professor so I got to wondering what others 
did, even though I thought I already knew.

I have a pretty heavy laptop. I guess I could have gotten something thin or 
lighter, but well, it is what it is. Part of me also wanted a larger screen 
since I have some vision and may on occasion watch movies. I also wanted to 
view other stuff on it such as skype faces, therefore, I opted for a larger 
monitor making the laptop well, um,  bigger than most people have.
Keep in mind the laptop was not meant for school primarily as I utilize my 
notetaker for school material. I have tons of folders on it; a folder for 
each class.
So the laptop was purchased for multiple means.

However, Its nice to know more portable options exist.
I do agree that placing a device in a backpack does secure it much better 
than another bag would.

Hp ultrabook? Haven't heard of that. is that a netbook?
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi Ashley,

In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.

Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
and light-weight would make it easier.

Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.

On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> Aleeha
>
> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its
>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it
>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students
>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>> writing.
>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other
>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over
>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 05:11:40 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:11:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks was in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBZdQVH1j36xMdQe+O6wriSCnLX5d-PVu2-KfMgo2RWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBZdQVH1j36xMdQe+O6wriSCnLX5d-PVu2-KfMgo2RWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1586EA71845450BAD0EB973BDB134EF@OwnerPC>

Hi arielle,
Thanks for the info. wow, two pounds is definitely portable. It should be 
lighter than a laptop. netbooks are ment to be more portable and compact 
than  laptops.
How much memory is on a netbook? What storage drives does it have? A  USB 
port and sd card slot probably.

I assume all them have wi-fi.
Well, I may just try one someday. I am afraid though that may not work for 
me because I need a larger keyboard to type. I seem to lose orientation with 
more compact keyboards. the spacing of the keys helps me locate them. for 
instance, my six pack of keys is by the numeric keypad and is surrounded by 
space. I mean the six pack of keys that has page up and down and delete and 
a few more keys.

Glad it works for you though.
I used a desktop to type my school assignments in school though. I intend to 
continue that; it just seems more stable and also has more memory in it.

My school doesn't have wi-fi everywhere. it really surprises me that you all 
can just email professors right and left in classes.
I know that would not work for me, even if I brought a computer to class
because not all buildings have stable wi-fi connections.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

I am using my netbook to type this email and have used it to complete
school assignments for the past three years. It runs JAWS, Internet
browsers, email clients, and Microsoft Office applications. I have had
occasional freezes since switching to Windows 7 but I think that's
because my particular netbook was meant for XP. There shouldn't be any
problem with running JAWS on a netbook and using Office applications
and Internet browsing.
I don't remember my netbook's weight off-hand, but I'd say probably
about 2 lbs. It definitely feels lighter than my laptop.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
> of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
> ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.
>
> Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
> have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
> hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
> and light-weight would make it easier.
>
> Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
> now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
> devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
> of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
> pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
> things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
> do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
> things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
> them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
> getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
> you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
> layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
> of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
> noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
> technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
> what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
> in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
> turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
> to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.
>
> On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> Aleeha
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>
>>>> Deb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>>> its
>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>>> it
>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students
>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>> writing.
>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other
>>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over
>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 05:58:06 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:58:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYXHw8WuT_5wS300N6QDvfqx=foGboC6ZKO4xXx6mLbbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E91FA3EDBC8E46E3952C16FD3E3F0BA7@OwnerPC>

also, how much weight is this ultrabook? a pound or two, perhaps?


-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi Ashley,

In addition to what Aleeha and Arielle have said about the importance
of having a mainstream computer device in class, there are several
ways in which you can make bringing one easy and convenient.

Sort of going off of Arielle's plug although slightly different, I
have an HP ultrabook and it's extremely light-weight with about 6
hours battery life.  Having something either very small or very thin
and light-weight would make it easier.

Second, the good thing about most college-style backpacks is that they
now have specific compartments to store laptops, IPads, or other
devices.  Most of these are padded pretty well too, so given that most
of the time a backpack would be either nearby or on your back they're
pretty safe.  The backpack is always a more secure option for keeping
things where you want them when you leave a room.  If I leave class to
do anything longer than a minute or so I will usually put my valuable
things in the backpack not because I think my classmates would steal
them, but just to make sure they're protected from accidentally
getting knocked off a table, or spilled on, or something else.  If
you're worried about technology being stolen this also adds another
layer of protection; they'd have to go into your bag to get it instead
of just swiping it off the table, which makes the attempt a lot more
noticeable to other classmates and the professor.  And even if
technology was stolen the sighted person that took it wouldn't know
what to do with it; I had a laptop stolen from a classroom when I was
in high school because the teacher forgot to lock up, and it was
turned in the next afternoon because the kid couldn't figure out how
to get past the log-on screen with the hot key I had set up.

On 1/10/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> Aleeha
>
> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its
>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it
>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students
>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>> writing.
>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other
>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over
>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 06:07:16 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:07:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC>
	<7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <6AE508E7D59846A496935771A680BDB5@OwnerPC>

Nice that many of you have netbooks. I guess I could have gotten one and 
therefore made my transport of  it to school more easy on me, but I did not. 
I explained why I opted for the larger size and large monitor in another 
message.
Misty, you say  its light
and small compared to laptops.
So what is the typical weight and how small? I've seen netbooks before, but 
not sure their dimensions.
So they come with internet and webcams as well. That is good because I like 
both features for communication.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi,
I got a netbook on sale for $200 a couple of years ago in an after-Christmas
sale. I am still using it today. It is very light compared to a normal
laptop, and I have a lot of things installed on mine, including Jaws,
although it is an XP. The netbooks out now pretty much have Windows 7, but
there is still plenty of memory for running Jaws, Microsoft Word, and other
programs. My netbook came with 1 gb of RAM and a 160 gb harddrive which
holds everything I have and still has 40 or 50 gb left over. You can also
upgrade the memory in some netbooks, and they usually come with Wifi
connectivity so you can access Wifi. The netbook is much smaller and lighter
than a standard laptop. I have seen some online for as low as about $260, so
they seem to be more affordable as far as price goes. I have an Acer
netbook, and it has been pretty reliable since I purchased it back in the
beginning of 2011. They also come with all of the standard ports, such as
USB, Ethernet, earphone, and external microphone jack, although the netbook
already has a built-in speaker, microphone, and webcam usually.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing


Hi arielle,
great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern
there was that
it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software on
it.
You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations.
Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more
easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and
know what you are doing.


How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying around a
laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more
technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi all,
I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
Arielle

On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>
> Deb
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> its
>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> Students
>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> writing.
>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>
>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> are
>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>
>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> other
>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk over
>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>
>> I look forward to ideas.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 13:58:07 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:58:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <6AE508E7D59846A496935771A680BDB5@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC>
	<7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21>
	<6AE508E7D59846A496935771A680BDB5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nQYf1-hZW6Dgehgiy1FCKeC1H9d63GJSfdc3vdDEYc6Zg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
     The netbook is about 7 or 8 inches long, about 4 inches wide and
maybe an inch and a half thick. The ultrabook, though not a netbook,
is the length and width of a full-sized laptop, but much thinner and
lighter. Both devices weigh less than 2 pounds.  If you don't want to
purchase new equipment, havve you tried the flash drive idea? I can
give you steps on how to save files as readable documents on your
notetaker if you'd like.
Aleeha

On 1/11/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Nice that many of you have netbooks. I guess I could have gotten one and
> therefore made my transport of  it to school more easy on me, but I did not.
>
> I explained why I opted for the larger size and large monitor in another
> message.
> Misty, you say  its light
> and small compared to laptops.
> So what is the typical weight and how small? I've seen netbooks before, but
>
> not sure their dimensions.
> So they come with internet and webcams as well. That is good because I like
>
> both features for communication.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Hi,
> I got a netbook on sale for $200 a couple of years ago in an
> after-Christmas
> sale. I am still using it today. It is very light compared to a normal
> laptop, and I have a lot of things installed on mine, including Jaws,
> although it is an XP. The netbooks out now pretty much have Windows 7, but
> there is still plenty of memory for running Jaws, Microsoft Word, and other
> programs. My netbook came with 1 gb of RAM and a 160 gb harddrive which
> holds everything I have and still has 40 or 50 gb left over. You can also
> upgrade the memory in some netbooks, and they usually come with Wifi
> connectivity so you can access Wifi. The netbook is much smaller and
> lighter
> than a standard laptop. I have seen some online for as low as about $260,
> so
> they seem to be more affordable as far as price goes. I have an Acer
> netbook, and it has been pretty reliable since I purchased it back in the
> beginning of 2011. They also come with all of the standard ports, such as
> USB, Ethernet, earphone, and external microphone jack, although the netbook
> already has a built-in speaker, microphone, and webcam usually.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
>
> Hi arielle,
> great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
> Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern
> there was that
> it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software on
> it.
> You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations.
> Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more
> easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
> Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and
> know what you are doing.
>
>
> How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying around
> a
> laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
> Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more
> technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Hi all,
> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>
>> Deb
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>> its
>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> Students
>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>> writing.
>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>
>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>> are
>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>
>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> other
>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> over
>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>
>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 14:18:59 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:18:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQYf1-hZW6Dgehgiy1FCKeC1H9d63GJSfdc3vdDEYc6Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC>
	<7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21>
	<6AE508E7D59846A496935771A680BDB5@OwnerPC>
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Message-ID: <CADit0-uTMYW9E5q2ys=5NLLpVv=q6eBjQdcf3zGV0u8g8=jvDw@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
For more specifics on netbooks and ultra-portable laptop devices just
go and check out the Bestbuy.com website. They have specific links for
all types of laptops. You will also be able to get an idea on price
range and such.
Mary

On 1/11/13, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>      The netbook is about 7 or 8 inches long, about 4 inches wide and
> maybe an inch and a half thick. The ultrabook, though not a netbook,
> is the length and width of a full-sized laptop, but much thinner and
> lighter. Both devices weigh less than 2 pounds.  If you don't want to
> purchase new equipment, havve you tried the flash drive idea? I can
> give you steps on how to save files as readable documents on your
> notetaker if you'd like.
> Aleeha
>
> On 1/11/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Nice that many of you have netbooks. I guess I could have gotten one and
>> therefore made my transport of  it to school more easy on me, but I did
>> not.
>>
>> I explained why I opted for the larger size and large monitor in another
>> message.
>> Misty, you say  its light
>> and small compared to laptops.
>> So what is the typical weight and how small? I've seen netbooks before,
>> but
>>
>> not sure their dimensions.
>> So they come with internet and webcams as well. That is good because I
>> like
>>
>> both features for communication.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> Hi,
>> I got a netbook on sale for $200 a couple of years ago in an
>> after-Christmas
>> sale. I am still using it today. It is very light compared to a normal
>> laptop, and I have a lot of things installed on mine, including Jaws,
>> although it is an XP. The netbooks out now pretty much have Windows 7,
>> but
>> there is still plenty of memory for running Jaws, Microsoft Word, and
>> other
>> programs. My netbook came with 1 gb of RAM and a 160 gb harddrive which
>> holds everything I have and still has 40 or 50 gb left over. You can also
>> upgrade the memory in some netbooks, and they usually come with Wifi
>> connectivity so you can access Wifi. The netbook is much smaller and
>> lighter
>> than a standard laptop. I have seen some online for as low as about $260,
>> so
>> they seem to be more affordable as far as price goes. I have an Acer
>> netbook, and it has been pretty reliable since I purchased it back in the
>> beginning of 2011. They also come with all of the standard ports, such as
>> USB, Ethernet, earphone, and external microphone jack, although the
>> netbook
>> already has a built-in speaker, microphone, and webcam usually.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>>
>> Hi arielle,
>> great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
>> Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern
>> there was that
>> it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software
>> on
>> it.
>> You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations.
>> Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more
>> easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
>> Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and
>> know what you are doing.
>>
>>
>> How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying
>> around
>> a
>> laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
>> Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more
>> technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its
>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it
>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students
>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>> writing.
>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other
>>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over
>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 17:39:03 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:39:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
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	<89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
	<084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <B519FF88-9BD4-4217-ADCF-E4E15F7F7A8A@gmail.com>

Hi Ashley
By the way, that is my middle name. But i use a blue tooth keyboard to type. I can use the on screen, but i do better as a touch typest.  my w p m is 50   with 1 hand. only one of my hands work. so i do better with the external. but the on screen is better for maybe just 1 or 2 words, but that is just how i do it. u may find that the on screen is better for you. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Lavonya,
> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or use the screen?
> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? email?
> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text format?
> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
> 
> That's nice an ipad works for you.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> 
> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ashley and all:
>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>> just like to add a few pointers.
>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>> things.
>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>> assignment.
>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>> learn?
>> 
>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>> or do anything with it later.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>>> get
>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>> 
>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>>>> in
>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>> the
>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>>> we
>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>> then
>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>> when
>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>>>> a
>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is
>>>> a
>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>> the
>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mary Fernandez
>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>> feel."
>> —
>> Maya Angelou
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From carlymih at comcast.net  Fri Jan 11 17:38:58 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:38:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>

Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,

As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to 
take note of what is being required the class write on at the time, 
then going home and composing the material on my desktop before 
emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is 
captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical, 
classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the 
notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>students and your professor also in the classroom.
>2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>Aleeha
>
>On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
> >>
> >> Deb
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
> >>> its
> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
> >>> Students
> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
> >>> writing.
> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
> >>>
> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
> >>> are
> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
> >>>
> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
> >>> other
> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
> >>> over
> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to ideas.
> >>>
> >>> Ashley
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 17:42:21 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:42:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
	<084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6@gmail.com>

I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I have a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an iPone, so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and just send it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email when we r not in class. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Lavonya,
> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or use the screen?
> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? email?
> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text format?
> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
> 
> That's nice an ipad works for you.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> 
> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ashley and all:
>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>> just like to add a few pointers.
>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>> things.
>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>> assignment.
>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>> learn?
>> 
>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>> or do anything with it later.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>>> get
>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>> 
>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>>>> in
>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>> the
>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>>> we
>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>> then
>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>> when
>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>>>> a
>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is
>>>> a
>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>> the
>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mary Fernandez
>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>> feel."
>> —
>> Maya Angelou
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:18:51 2013
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:18:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
	<084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
	<E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABORmNvLRoq8dfVbStW+2=M7U2zSgy+ksFe9mNRwiweTAt5Owg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I recently heard that companies are discontinuing netbooks for two
reasons: 1) the ultrabook is a better option than the netbook, and 2)
tablets are taking over. Netbooks are going to become hard to find,
and when they die, they'll die for good. An ultrabook or tablet might
be a better option.

What I do is write the assignment on my laptop during class with
everyone else, save it to a flash drive, and when everyone turns in
their assignments on paper, mine just comes in a different format
(flash drive). Then the teacher can open the file on her or his
computer, print it if they desire, grade it, and return the flash
drive to me next class. I keep one flash drive for each class and use
Dymotape to label each with the first letter of the class (b for
biology, s for sociology, st for statistics this semester). At the end
of the semester, I peel off the Dymotape and replace it with letters
corresponding to the next semester's classes.

~Jewel

On 1/11/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I have
> a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an iPone,
> so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and just send
> it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email when we r
> not in class.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Lavonya,
>> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or
>> use the screen?
>> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for
>> writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to
>> write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor?
>> email?
>> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text
>> format?
>> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>>
>> That's nice an ipad works for you.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the
>> teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the
>> written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really
>> doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge,
>> that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ashley and all:
>>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>>> just like to add a few pointers.
>>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>>> things.
>>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>>> assignment.
>>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>>> learn?
>>>
>>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm
>>>>> back
>>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>>>> get
>>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on
>>>>> each
>>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the
>>>>> writing
>>>>> in
>>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>>> the
>>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out
>>>>> and
>>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>>>> we
>>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>>> then
>>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down
>>>>> the
>>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I
>>>>> do
>>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>>> when
>>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work
>>>>> out
>>>>> a
>>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it
>>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get
>>>>> the
>>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB
>>>>> drive,
>>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>> knows
>>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>>> the
>>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>> feel."
>>> —
>>> Maya Angelou
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:19:39 2013
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:19:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
Message-ID: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>

Hi all,

For anyone who has taken the GRE:
Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the difference?
Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
What material does the GRE cover?
How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little discriminatory to me.
Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
MN-ABAS President

Sent from my iPod

From isaac.hebert at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:19:31 2013
From: isaac.hebert at gmail.com (Isaac Hebert)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:19:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1357927209.13054.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.15.1357927209.13054.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <1F0BF5C6-B92F-499F-ABBD-11E6C1C51411@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:00 PM, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote:

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
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> 
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> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: in class writing (Carly Mihalakis)
>   2. Re: in class writing (Lavonya Gardner)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:38:58 -0800
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    National Association of Blind Students mailing
>    list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
> 
> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to 
> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time, 
> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before 
> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is 
> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical, 
> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the 
> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> Aleeha
>> 
>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>> 
>>>> Deb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>>> its
>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students
>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>> writing.
>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other
>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over
>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:42:21 -0500
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> Message-ID: <E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I have a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an iPone, so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and just send it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email when we r not in class. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Lavonya,
>> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or use the screen?
>> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? email?
>> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text format?
>> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>> 
>> That's nice an ipad works for you.
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>> 
>> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ashley and all:
>>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>>> just like to add a few pointers.
>>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>>> things.
>>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>>> assignment.
>>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>>> learn?
>>> 
>>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm back
>>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>>>> get
>>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on each
>>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the writing
>>>>> in
>>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>>> the
>>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out and
>>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>>>> we
>>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>>> then
>>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down the
>>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I do
>>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>>> when
>>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. Perhaps
>>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work out
>>>>> a
>>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it is
>>>>> a
>>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get the
>>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB drive,
>>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>>> the
>>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I?ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other students, but I don?t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>> feel."
>>> ?
>>> Maya Angelou
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 15
> **************************************also it is important to backup you're documents to either with external media or online backup service.


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:33:40 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:33:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
In-Reply-To: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
References: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU401-EAS394C30E491A8C2450594CEDDC290@phx.gbl>

Good afternoon,
I have taken both.  I think the paper-based one may be a bit better.  This is due to a bad experience using the computer-based one.  They have made improvements; so, this one may be better since they completely revised the whole test process.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 11, 2013, at 1:20 PM, "Jordan Richardson" <lilrichie411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> For anyone who has taken the GRE:
> Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the difference?
> Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
> What material does the GRE cover?
> How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
> Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little discriminatory to me.
> Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?
> 
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> MN-ABAS President
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:41:20 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:41:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
In-Reply-To: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
References: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-t4GG4ZaQY7iTLKnskPmg5dEE8i_6rh3hCndgir=f4TPg@mail.gmail.com>

Jordan,
I took the GRE in Oct of 2011. For someone who is blind, there is no
difference between the computerized and Braille/large print test
except that with the computerized test you get your score when you
finish the test.
ETS does not use Jaws, but rather a built in voice they created for
the voiced GRE. If you register for the computerized test they will
send you a CD with a sample of the test so you can get yourself
familiarized with it.
The GRE has changed from the time I took it, and so the question
format is slightly different. But as far as materials covered, there
will be a verbal section, a math section and a writing section. I
recommend getting the Princeton Review Cracking the New Gre from
bookshare. But basically, verbal tests mostly vocabulary in a variety
of ways. There will be an antonyms section, a sentence completion
sentence and a reading comprehension section. The math section covers
high school math, as that is the only type of Math ETS can be sure
everyone has had at some point. So there will be algebra and geometry
for the most part. Although you cannot apply online, ETS is actually
really good when it comes to working with blind students and
accommodations. When I applied I took my application to the Office of
Disabilities in my school and had them help me with it. You can also
get a reader or a friend to help. It's not too long.
ETS always works with the NFB and Ruth Lowe, who I believe, oversees
the accommodations department at GRE, always comes to NFB events like
convention and Washington seminar.
Please contact me off list if you have any more questions or need tips
on effective ways to study.
Best of luck.
Mary


On 1/11/13, Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For anyone who has taken the GRE:
> Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the
> difference?
> Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
> What material does the GRE cover?
> How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
> Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is
> requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little
> discriminatory to me.
> Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> MN-ABAS President
>
> Sent from my iPod
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 18:44:32 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:44:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-t4GG4ZaQY7iTLKnskPmg5dEE8i_6rh3hCndgir=f4TPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
	<CADit0-t4GG4ZaQY7iTLKnskPmg5dEE8i_6rh3hCndgir=f4TPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-sJZGS5_8xYOr6PoC6kykSonEpe8peAYncbRq_rFVKt8g@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, they did revise the entire test, and finished testing the Voiced
GRE sometime in the summer. I tested the new GRE for ETS, and found
the computerized experience to be good. I think it is just a matter of
personal preference. As part of your accommodation you can ask for a
Braille copy for the exam if you prefer reading for things like
reading comprehension, or for math problems. ETS is really wonderful
about accommodations!
Mary

On 1/11/13, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jordan,
> I took the GRE in Oct of 2011. For someone who is blind, there is no
> difference between the computerized and Braille/large print test
> except that with the computerized test you get your score when you
> finish the test.
> ETS does not use Jaws, but rather a built in voice they created for
> the voiced GRE. If you register for the computerized test they will
> send you a CD with a sample of the test so you can get yourself
> familiarized with it.
> The GRE has changed from the time I took it, and so the question
> format is slightly different. But as far as materials covered, there
> will be a verbal section, a math section and a writing section. I
> recommend getting the Princeton Review Cracking the New Gre from
> bookshare. But basically, verbal tests mostly vocabulary in a variety
> of ways. There will be an antonyms section, a sentence completion
> sentence and a reading comprehension section. The math section covers
> high school math, as that is the only type of Math ETS can be sure
> everyone has had at some point. So there will be algebra and geometry
> for the most part. Although you cannot apply online, ETS is actually
> really good when it comes to working with blind students and
> accommodations. When I applied I took my application to the Office of
> Disabilities in my school and had them help me with it. You can also
> get a reader or a friend to help. It's not too long.
> ETS always works with the NFB and Ruth Lowe, who I believe, oversees
> the accommodations department at GRE, always comes to NFB events like
> convention and Washington seminar.
> Please contact me off list if you have any more questions or need tips
> on effective ways to study.
> Best of luck.
> Mary
>
>
> On 1/11/13, Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For anyone who has taken the GRE:
>> Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the
>> difference?
>> Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
>> What material does the GRE cover?
>> How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
>> Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is
>> requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little
>> discriminatory to me.
>> Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Jordan Richardson
>> MN-ABAS President
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
> feel."
> —
> Maya Angelou
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From carlymih at comcast.net  Fri Jan 11 19:49:20 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:49:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com>
	<AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111114807.01bf2090@comcast.net>

Good morning, as far as work with a clicker, couldn't you just pair 
up with someone else, who could "click" your responces?
Car At 04:52 PM 1/9/2013, Jordyn Castor wrote:
>All iClicker models are now accessible and you can special order 
>them with Braille on the buttons (not really necessary if you can 
>distinguish tactile letters), and with the vibrating mode which 
>confirms your answer was recorded.
>Jordyn
>On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida 
><mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > hello all,
> >
> > some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to 
> questions as a manner of majoring participation.
> > do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work 
> for the blind?
> > if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to 
> the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
> >
> > thank you in advance,
> >
> > mauricio
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From zdreicer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 20:06:58 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:06:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
Message-ID: <9BB654F611264A1BBC9F51097BAC18FA@LAPSZDREICER>

Hi everyone,
   I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
Sent from HP Laptop

From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 21:07:30 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:07:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>

Hi all, 
Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab? 
Thank you, 
Misty

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 21:15:30 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:15:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYCt8QSSyNSrWYrku6RG3Ja-kEsyd427698Ntg1CFiAHg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Misty,

I am pretty sure I used it a few years ago.  If it's the same spanish
lab your professor wants to use, (I know we used the same publisher at
least if not the same textbook), then it's pretty darn inaccessible,
as you've found out.  My braillist ended up brailling the on-line
readings and practice quizzes and stuff for me and I would have to
email my teacher my answers instead of doing it online.  Perhaps your
professor will let your ds office have access to an account or they
can request access from the publisher so they can put the material in
an alternate format.

Hope this helps,


On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My
> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our
> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any
> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on
> my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read
> the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that
> work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using
> any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete
> your assignments in this type of lab?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From codyjbair at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 11 21:16:35 2013
From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:16:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>

As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.

Cody

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all, 
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab? 
> Thank you, 
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 21:22:44 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:22:44 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
	<AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <507D652487194C70A4CEEFD8255BB685@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I've never used them, but I know people who have used them.
http://www.myfinancelab.com/accessibility/jaws-quickstart
This is a different lab, but it is the same company. If I were you I'd email 
them and let them know that after following this guide the lab is still not 
working on a totally accessible subject.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cody Bair
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:16 PM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I took 
last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all of my 
assignments with the assistance of a reader.

Cody

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My 
> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our 
> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any 
> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 
> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not 
> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in 
> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 21:24:28 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:24:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNvLRoq8dfVbStW+2=M7U2zSgy+ksFe9mNRwiweTAt5Owg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21>
	<-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid>
	<CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com>
	<084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC>
	<E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6@gmail.com>
	<CABORmNvLRoq8dfVbStW+2=M7U2zSgy+ksFe9mNRwiweTAt5Owg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZpmK4VWsEB1m-h8Mfy=q1WdYtjXq1Ntwp3rHop5hLAug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

The ultrabooks are sort of replacing the netbooks as was said earlier.
 When closed mine is about 2 inches thick, and I believe I either have
a 17 or a 15 inch screen so it's about average size.  They typically
come with Windows 7 installed and the body of mine is primarily metal,
which is nice because it's pretty durable.  The reason it's so thin
though is because they have taken out the CD drive, but you can get an
external one with a USB cable for about $20 at Walmart and also take
it in your bag if necessary.  Other than that the ultrabooks have the
standard amount of memory, ram, and all that good stuff unless you
choose to upgrade it, so the CD drive is the only real change.

On 1/11/13, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I recently heard that companies are discontinuing netbooks for two
> reasons: 1) the ultrabook is a better option than the netbook, and 2)
> tablets are taking over. Netbooks are going to become hard to find,
> and when they die, they'll die for good. An ultrabook or tablet might
> be a better option.
>
> What I do is write the assignment on my laptop during class with
> everyone else, save it to a flash drive, and when everyone turns in
> their assignments on paper, mine just comes in a different format
> (flash drive). Then the teacher can open the file on her or his
> computer, print it if they desire, grade it, and return the flash
> drive to me next class. I keep one flash drive for each class and use
> Dymotape to label each with the first letter of the class (b for
> biology, s for sociology, st for statistics this semester). At the end
> of the semester, I peel off the Dymotape and replace it with letters
> corresponding to the next semester's classes.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 1/11/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I
>> have
>> a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an
>> iPone,
>> so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and just send
>> it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email when we r
>> not in class.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lavonya,
>>> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard
>>> or
>>> use the screen?
>>> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for
>>> writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to
>>> write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the
>>> professor?
>>> email?
>>> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text
>>> format?
>>> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>>>
>>> That's nice an ipad works for you.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>
>>> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the
>>> teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the
>>> written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am
>>> really
>>> doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so
>>> huge,
>>> that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ashley and all:
>>>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>>>> just like to add a few pointers.
>>>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>>>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>>>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>>>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>>>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>>>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>>>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>>>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>>>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>>>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>>>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>>>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>>>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>>>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>>>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>>>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>>>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>>>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>>>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>>>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>>>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>>>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>>>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>>>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>>>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>>>> things.
>>>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>>>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>>>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>>>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>>>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>>>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>>>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>>>> assignment.
>>>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>>>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>>>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>>>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>>>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>>>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>>>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>>>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>>>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>>>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>>>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>>>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>>>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>>>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>>>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>>>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>>>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>>>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>>>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>>>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>>>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>>>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>>>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>>>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>>>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>>>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>>>> learn?
>>>>
>>>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on
>>>>>> each
>>>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group
>>>>>> member
>>>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment.
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB
>>>>>> drive,
>>>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>>>>> professor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>>> feel."
>>>> —
>>>> Maya Angelou
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Fri Jan 11 22:26:53 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:26:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <mailman.54.1772982271.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

It's the same with SmartMusic and other lab stuff.  MyLabSchool 
might be inaccessible.  Don't college profs know that such labs 
are bad for blind people?  Certain forms of math lab softwadre 
are inaccessible, which led to a famous lawsuit in Florida.  Two 
of my friend were victims of unsympathetic, and yes, unempathetic 
college professors.  They ended up suing the college and winnning 
the suit.  They settled major.  If the inaccessible ssoftware is 
part of the grade, and if the professor does not show empathy and 
sympathy towards your situation, remind the professor that you 
are blind, for one, and for another, inaccessible software is 
against the law.  I don't mean to be harsh, but I believe 
inversities need to start finding accessible ways to do homework 
for the students.  Ever thought Spanish was an audible thing 
first?  We all pick up language orally, not visually.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
To: Misty Dawn Bradley <MistyDBradley at gmail.com>, National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:15:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

Hi Misty,

I am pretty sure I used it a few years ago.  If it's the same 
spanish
lab your professor wants to use, (I know we used the same 
publisher at
least if not the same textbook), then it's pretty darn 
inaccessible,
as you've found out.  My braillist ended up brailling the on-line
readings and practice quizzes and stuff for me and I would have 
to
email my teacher my answers instead of doing it online.  Perhaps 
your
professor will let your ds office have access to an account or 
they
can request access from the publisher so they can put the 
material in
an alternate format.

Hope this helps,


On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? 
My
 instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 
percent of our
 final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone 
had any
 experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using 
Jaws 10 on
 my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws 
will not read
 the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
readers that
 work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
inaccessible using
 any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to 
complete
 your assignments in this type of lab?
 Thank you,
 Misty
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine
t104%40gmail.com



--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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07%40comcast.net


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Fri Jan 11 22:26:55 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:26:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <mailman.55.1772982271.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Cody,
I thought that would be a good thing to do.  However, why waste 
your time with a reader if he/she is going to cut sessions, get 
sick, or whauftever?  JAWs never does that.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com
To: Misty Dawn Bradley <MistyDBradley at gmail.com>,National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:16:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a 
class I took last semester that used one of these programs I had 
to complete all of my assignments with the assistance of a 
reader.

Cody

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
<mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi all,
 Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? 
My instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 
percent of our final grade, and it seems to be rather 
inaccessible. Has anyone had any experiences of how to get around 
the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on my XP computer and 
Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read the 
Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is 
completely inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what 
have you all done in the past to complete your assignments in 
this type of lab?
 Thank you,
 Misty
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40y
ahoo.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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07%40comcast.net


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 22:35:10 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:35:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <50f09252.c799320a.2e5f.fffffa8eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <50f09252.c799320a.2e5f.fffffa8eSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4823758709552857620@unknownmsgid>

Beth,

I agree with you, but the problem is college professors don't know
that these programs are inaccessible to the blind, nor do the
developers themselves. That's why a great deal of our advocacy work is
in educating the public.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:

> It's the same with SmartMusic and other lab stuff.  MyLabSchool might be inaccessible.  Don't college profs know that such labs are bad for blind people?  Certain forms of math lab softwadre are inaccessible, which led to a famous lawsuit in Florida.  Two of my friend were victims of unsympathetic, and yes, unempathetic college professors.  They ended up suing the college and winnning the suit.  They settled major.  If the inaccessible ssoftware is part of the grade, and if the professor does not show empathy and sympathy towards your situation, remind the professor that you are blind, for one, and for another, inaccessible software is against the law.  I don't mean to be harsh, but I believe inversities need to start finding accessible ways to do homework for the students.  Ever thought Spanish was an audible thing first?  We all pick up language orally, not visually.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley <MistyDBradley at gmail.com>, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:15:30 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
>
> Hi Misty,
>
> I am pretty sure I used it a few years ago.  If it's the same spanish
> lab your professor wants to use, (I know we used the same publisher at
> least if not the same textbook), then it's pretty darn inaccessible,
> as you've found out.  My braillist ended up brailling the on-line
> readings and practice quizzes and stuff for me and I would have to
> email my teacher my answers instead of doing it online.  Perhaps your
> professor will let your ds office have access to an account or they
> can request access from the publisher so they can put the material in
> an alternate format.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My
> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our
> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any
> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on
> my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read
> the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that
> work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using
> any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete
> your assignments in this type of lab?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine
> t104%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> 07%40comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 22:38:44 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:38:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
	<AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <-876104414640477111@unknownmsgid>

I thought they were working with NFB to increase the accessibility of
their programs. Weren't they at convention last year?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com> wrote:

> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
>
> Cody
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From davidb521 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 22:50:16 2013
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David Bouchard)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:50:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Maryland Association of Blind Students on Twitter
Message-ID: <7DB70700-EE94-45B7-9641-9A46320119F5@gmail.com>

Good evening!
I am pleased to announce that our student division, the Maryland Association of Blind Students (MDABS) now has a Twitter feed. You may follow  us at @MDMDABS. Please feel free to follow us for updates on our division, and information on resources that may be of benefit to students.
Thank you.

Regards,
David Bouchard
Residential Manager 
Blind Industries and Services of Maryland 
300 W Lombard ST (Camden Court Apartments), Baltimore, MD 21201
Phone: (662) 312-4161



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 23:05:24 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:05:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21><AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
	<507D652487194C70A4CEEFD8255BB685@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <B2FE1625AA3847E7983C85B5876195E6@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Thank you for giving me this link. I did not know that there was a guide for 
Jaws. I will try it out and see if it works.
Thank you,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab


> Hello,
> I've never used them, but I know people who have used them.
> http://www.myfinancelab.com/accessibility/jaws-quickstart
> This is a different lab, but it is the same company. If I were you I'd 
> email them and let them know that after following this guide the lab is 
> still not working on a totally accessible subject.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cody Bair
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:16 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
>
> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I 
> took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all 
> of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
>
> Cody
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My 
>> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our 
>> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any 
>> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 
>> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not 
>> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
>> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
>> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in 
>> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 00:13:08 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:13:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQYf1-hZW6Dgehgiy1FCKeC1H9d63GJSfdc3vdDEYc6Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><C52C8A57278142DCBD2153F0638CB2DB@OwnerPC><7BB6616891D445DB9E475EC494E726F3@acerd37f251f21><6AE508E7D59846A496935771A680BDB5@OwnerPC>
	<CAE8_=nQYf1-hZW6Dgehgiy1FCKeC1H9d63GJSfdc3vdDEYc6Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B99A3D63EBB4CB8A54017BCE2CC375B@OwnerPC>

Aleeha,
Do you use an ultrabook or netbook?
If they weigh less than two pounds, I understand why you all think its more 
portable.
As I said, I got a large laptop that is quite heavy for me to handle. Yes, 
its portable, but not convenient due to its size. I carry it in its bag, not 
in a backpack.
These lighter and thin netbooks or ultrabooks would not kill my back and I 
could place it in a backpack as you all said.

Anyway, I will opt for the flash drive idea. Can you tell me at what stage 
in the saving process  I convert to word?
I think I'll use the technology I have for now if at all possible.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:58 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi
     The netbook is about 7 or 8 inches long, about 4 inches wide and
maybe an inch and a half thick. The ultrabook, though not a netbook,
is the length and width of a full-sized laptop, but much thinner and
lighter. Both devices weigh less than 2 pounds.  If you don't want to
purchase new equipment, havve you tried the flash drive idea? I can
give you steps on how to save files as readable documents on your
notetaker if you'd like.
Aleeha

On 1/11/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Nice that many of you have netbooks. I guess I could have gotten one and
> therefore made my transport of  it to school more easy on me, but I did 
> not.
>
> I explained why I opted for the larger size and large monitor in another
> message.
> Misty, you say  its light
> and small compared to laptops.
> So what is the typical weight and how small? I've seen netbooks before, 
> but
>
> not sure their dimensions.
> So they come with internet and webcams as well. That is good because I 
> like
>
> both features for communication.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Hi,
> I got a netbook on sale for $200 a couple of years ago in an
> after-Christmas
> sale. I am still using it today. It is very light compared to a normal
> laptop, and I have a lot of things installed on mine, including Jaws,
> although it is an XP. The netbooks out now pretty much have Windows 7, but
> there is still plenty of memory for running Jaws, Microsoft Word, and 
> other
> programs. My netbook came with 1 gb of RAM and a 160 gb harddrive which
> holds everything I have and still has 40 or 50 gb left over. You can also
> upgrade the memory in some netbooks, and they usually come with Wifi
> connectivity so you can access Wifi. The netbook is much smaller and
> lighter
> than a standard laptop. I have seen some online for as low as about $260,
> so
> they seem to be more affordable as far as price goes. I have an Acer
> netbook, and it has been pretty reliable since I purchased it back in the
> beginning of 2011. They also come with all of the standard ports, such as
> USB, Ethernet, earphone, and external microphone jack, although the 
> netbook
> already has a built-in speaker, microphone, and webcam usually.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
>
> Hi arielle,
> great points. I wasn't aware netbooks were so inexpensive.
> Have you used this or known other students  who did? I guess my concern
> there was that
> it would not have enough memory to run jaws and other adaptive software on
> it.
> You are right that a notetaker for the blind does have limitations.
> Mainstream technology such as netbooks, laptops, and i-devices can more
> easily be hooked to the internet and communicate  with professors.
> Another advantage is students and professors can see the screen then and
> know what you are doing.
>
>
> How heavy is a netbook? As I said before, I really dislike carrying around
> a
> laptop because its weight is a lot to handle.
> Something to consider; although I'm not in a position to purchase more
> technology now. hmm, maybe an ipad for christmas though.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Hi all,
> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>
>> Deb
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>> its
>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows it
>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> Students
>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>> writing.
>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>
>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>> are
>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>
>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> other
>>> students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> over
>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>
>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 00:39:57 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:39:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <1F0BF5C6-B92F-499F-ABBD-11E6C1C51411@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.15.1357927209.13054.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<1F0BF5C6-B92F-499F-ABBD-11E6C1C51411@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77607FE8C5B6466D920D9BBA4EE1E8C8@OwnerPC>

Isaac,
your message did not come through.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Isaac Hebert
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:19 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 15



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:00 PM, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote:

> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: in class writing (Carly Mihalakis)
>   2. Re: in class writing (Lavonya Gardner)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:38:58 -0800
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    National Association of Blind Students mailing
>    list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>
> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> Aleeha
>>
>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>
>>>> Deb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>>>>> its
>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows 
>>>>> it
>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students
>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>> writing.
>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>> other
>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>> over
>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:42:21 -0500
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> Message-ID: <E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>
> I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I 
> have a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an 
> iPone, so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and 
> just send it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email 
> when we r not in class.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> Lavonya,
>> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or 
>> use the screen?
>> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for 
>> writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to 
>> write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? 
>> email?
>> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text 
>> format?
>> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>>
>> That's nice an ipad works for you.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the 
>> teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the 
>> written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really 
>> doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, 
>> that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ashley and all:
>>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>>> just like to add a few pointers.
>>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>>> things.
>>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>>> assignment.
>>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>>> learn?
>>>
>>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm 
>>>>> back
>>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner 
>>>>> and
>>>>> get
>>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing 
>>>>> over
>>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on 
>>>>> each
>>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
>>>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the 
>>>>> writing
>>>>> in
>>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>>> the
>>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out 
>>>>> and
>>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in 
>>>>> which
>>>>> we
>>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>>> then
>>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down 
>>>>> the
>>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I 
>>>>> do
>>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing 
>>>>> it
>>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>>> when
>>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. 
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work 
>>>>> out
>>>>> a
>>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to 
>>>>> email
>>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it 
>>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get 
>>>>> the
>>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB 
>>>>> drive,
>>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. 
>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor 
>>>>> knows
>>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>>> the
>>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as 
>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them 
>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I?ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> other students, but I don?t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could 
>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>> feel."
>>> ?
>>> Maya Angelou
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 15
> **************************************also it is important to backup 
> you're documents to either with external media or online backup service.

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 00:43:24 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:43:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111114807.01bf2090@comcast.net>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com><AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111114807.01bf2090@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FBFA97BF81D14C62A3FAB6E7D013B3AC@OwnerPC>

Carley,
no not if it’s a quiz; you have to give your own answers.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Carly Mihalakis
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:49 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about i clickers

Good morning, as far as work with a clicker, couldn't you just pair
up with someone else, who could "click" your responces?
Car At 04:52 PM 1/9/2013, Jordyn Castor wrote:
>All iClicker models are now accessible and you can special order them with 
>Braille on the buttons (not really necessary if you can distinguish tactile 
>letters), and with the vibrating mode which confirms your answer was 
>recorded.
>Jordyn
>On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> 
>wrote:
>
> > hello all,
> >
> > some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to
> questions as a manner of majoring participation.
> > do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work
> for the blind?
> > if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to
> the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
> >
> > thank you in advance,
> >
> > mauricio
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 00:44:27 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:44:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
In-Reply-To: <9BB654F611264A1BBC9F51097BAC18FA@LAPSZDREICER>
References: <9BB654F611264A1BBC9F51097BAC18FA@LAPSZDREICER>
Message-ID: <B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>

unfortunately access and jaws are not accessible; why doesn't nfb complain 
to microsoft about it?
Since 2007 version they changed the layout so we cannot use it; you have to 
use access 2003 for it to be accessible.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws

Hi everyone,
   I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my 
school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I 
have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
Sent from HP Laptop
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From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 01:10:21 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:10:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
In-Reply-To: <B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>
References: <9BB654F611264A1BBC9F51097BAC18FA@LAPSZDREICER>
	<B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BAEE025F-51B8-498B-933C-1B3708B47988@gmail.com>

K thanks 

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:44 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> unfortunately access and jaws are not accessible; why doesn't nfb complain to microsoft about it?
> Since 2007 version they changed the layout so we cannot use it; you have to use access 2003 for it to be accessible.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
> 
> Hi everyone,
>  I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
> Sent from HP Laptop
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Sat Jan 12 01:13:57 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:13:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
 Region Student Seminar.
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjOtizKZEwASJNj+J=o6O7gxc_AbUno37JLzSv8BMb5sUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjOtizKZEwASJNj+J=o6O7gxc_AbUno37JLzSv8BMb5sUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae89643369e75b28e9335c11d4c30271.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call
me at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge
to you and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this.
> Hi all,
>  here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any questions.
>   I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of
> Nevada is putting on!
>
>  Darian
>
> Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar
>
> When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013
>
> Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and
>
> Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.
>
> Phone: (702) 732-9100
>
> College Students:
>
> Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.
>
> Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
> in your scholastic life.
>
> Network with students from all over the west coast
>
> Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.
>
> Parents:
>
> Meet other parents and network
>
> Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.
>
> Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.
>
> Get your student connected with Mentors.
>
> All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
> (National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
> opportunity to  enjoy
> an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun activities within the
> hotel.
>
> Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -
>
> RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
> phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
> email:
> swstudentseminar at gmail.com
>  or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or
> realhappygirl1 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40audioaccessfm.com
>




From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Sat Jan 12 01:15:50 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:15:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs presents: National Federation of the Blind
 Scholarship Call
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjNqWTbq2tnFDED25z9z-ZjwN6kcnp1wvsv146kdnpAABQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjNqWTbq2tnFDED25z9z-ZjwN6kcnp1wvsv146kdnpAABQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7fd4db2795c31a39a316222b81b108d3.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

This call will be streamed. Look out for an email with stream access details.

> Fellow students:
>     It is time once again for the monthly NABS Membership Committee
> conference call. This month we bring you a call all about scholarships
> - and who could not use one of those? Please join us as we will have
> several speakers on the call to talk about various scholarship
> opportunities. Patti Chang, National Federation of the Blind
> Scholarship Chair will be on the call to talk about the scholarships
> that the NFB is giving out at the national level. To find out more
> about the NFB National scholarship program prior to the call, you may
> visit the following link: http://www.nfb.org/scholarships
> To sum it up:
> When?: Wednesday, Janurary 16, 2012; 8:00 PM EST.
> What?: A conference call on the topic of scholarships.
> Where?: NABS Conference Call Line: (605) 475-6700. Code 7869673
>
>
> We look forward to seeing everyone on the call!
>
> Your NABS Membership Committee
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
>
>
> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
> via your phone bill.
>
> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>
> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>
>
> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment
”
> -Darian Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40audioaccessfm.com
>




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 01:41:34 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:41:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
	<AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D5E14D29F683401D87429D4831DA6CAB@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. the problems 
were in flash content or pictures that were not readable.

I hope you can find a work around for this.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cody Bair
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I took 
last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all of my 
assignments with the assistance of a reader.

Cody

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My 
> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our 
> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any 
> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 
> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not 
> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in 
> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 01:53:14 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:53:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
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Carley,
I do the same as you usually.
I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted desktop.
If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before 
class so I can bring the assignment to class.

Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I 
email it them soon after class.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Carly Mihalakis
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,

As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>      If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>students and your professor also in the classroom.
>2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>Aleeha
>
>On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
> >>
> >> Deb
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
> >>> its
> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows 
> >>> it
> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
> >>> Students
> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
> >>> writing.
> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
> >>>
> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
> >>> are
> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
> >>>
> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
> >>> other
> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
> >>> over
> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to ideas.
> >>>
> >>> Ashley
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> >
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 01:55:49 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:55:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <B519FF88-9BD4-4217-ADCF-E4E15F7F7A8A@gmail.com>
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	<B519FF88-9BD4-4217-ADCF-E4E15F7F7A8A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED5248E865C74B54817DFB61CC05CFF6@OwnerPC>

Lavonya,
I'd use a bluetooth keyboard too if I ever got an I device and wished to 
send email or compose notes on the word processor.
Can you describe your keyboard? Is it a full size keyboard? If so, is it 
fairly portable?
How large is it?
Since we're talking about writing in class, do you find you have enough room 
for the keyboard and
your ipad on those small desks?

Thanks.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:39 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi Ashley
By the way, that is my middle name. But i use a blue tooth keyboard to type. 
I can use the on screen, but i do better as a touch typest.  my w p m is 50 
with 1 hand. only one of my hands work. so i do better with the external. 
but the on screen is better for maybe just 1 or 2 words, but that is just 
how i do it. u may find that the on screen is better for you.

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Lavonya,
> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or 
> use the screen?
> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for 
> writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to 
> write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor? 
> email?
> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text 
> format?
> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>
> That's nice an ipad works for you.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the 
> teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the 
> written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really 
> doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge, 
> that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley and all:
>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>> just like to add a few pointers.
>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>> things.
>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>> assignment.
>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>> learn?
>>
>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm 
>>>> back
>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner and
>>>> get
>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing over
>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on 
>>>> each
>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
>>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the 
>>>> writing
>>>> in
>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>> the
>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out 
>>>> and
>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in which
>>>> we
>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>> then
>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down 
>>>> the
>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I 
>>>> do
>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing it
>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>> when
>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment. 
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work 
>>>> out
>>>> a
>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to email
>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it 
>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get 
>>>> the
>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB 
>>>> drive,
>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. 
>>>>>>> Typically
>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor 
>>>> knows
>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>> the
>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as 
>>>> well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on 
>>>>>>> a
>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>> are
>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mary Fernandez
>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>> feel."
>> —
>> Maya Angelou
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 01:57:19 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:57:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21><AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
	<D5E14D29F683401D87429D4831DA6CAB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <9A8A34F029154CC3A675ACBFD121EE3A@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Yes, this is the main problem. Some of the flash content is not accessible 
and the buttons are unlabeled, and also a lot of the practice and 
assignments require you to match the vocabulary word or audio pronunciation 
to the picture of it. Another issue with assignments is if there is a button 
for an audio, it does not appear at all on the page so is not read. I am not 
sure if it is something graphical or not.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab


> Hi,
> I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
> Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. the 
> problems were in flash content or pictures that were not readable.
>
> I hope you can find a work around for this.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cody Bair
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
>
> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I 
> took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all 
> of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
>
> Cody
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My 
>> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our 
>> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any 
>> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 
>> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not 
>> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
>> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
>> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in 
>> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>
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From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:01:35 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:01:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
In-Reply-To: <B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>
References: <9BB654F611264A1BBC9F51097BAC18FA@LAPSZDREICER>
	<B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E085F731-2BDC-4788-A23C-E5F9466FA678@gmail.com>

Do you guys know about NVDA and Microsoft Access 2007? Would that be accessible using the latest NVDA?

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:44 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> unfortunately access and jaws are not accessible; why doesn't nfb complain to microsoft about it?
> Since 2007 version they changed the layout so we cannot use it; you have to use access 2003 for it to be accessible.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
> 
> Hi everyone,
>  I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
> Sent from HP Laptop
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:01:53 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:01:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>

Ashley and Carly,
I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
Warmest regards,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Carley,
> I do the same as you usually.
> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted desktop.
> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
> 
> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I email it them soon after class.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> 
> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
> 
> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> Aleeha
>> 
>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>> >>
>> >> Deb
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> >>> its
>> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows >>> it
>> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> >>> Students
>> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> >>> writing.
>> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> >>> are
>> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> >>> other
>> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>> >>> over
>> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>> >>>
>> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ashley
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 02:17:17 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:17:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNvLRoq8dfVbStW+2=M7U2zSgy+ksFe9mNRwiweTAt5Owg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><978939BD1DAB4B4790B8786B7E7DC197@acerd37f251f21><-5985001610842573789@unknownmsgid><CAPnd0vne6FU30PMoDLUmLoUyym5v9-uk4zGvA09bkJv+SZfmHQ@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FbDohKHyNMh5qTDs=CO_==-G7F9DUOWo-kX9xzFX_=5Qg@mail.gmail.com><CADit0-sWRQVooj2e31-LFnZPgqNjT6bJGSMS9Jxz4CWatbq9aQ@mail.gmail.com><89DAC204-0050-4543-ACFD-688A3665531C@gmail.com><084BFCE2481846B2A6B4835306C803B9@OwnerPC><E0F8CC9C-5FAB-4D9E-AF69-E1A799B256E6@gmail.com>
	<CABORmNvLRoq8dfVbStW+2=M7U2zSgy+ksFe9mNRwiweTAt5Owg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <708A80E47F9347B9901E87CA4B56ACE8@OwnerPC>

Jewel,
Great idea for labeling! I've had the hardest time keeping which  flash 
drive is which.
I thought of labeling but dismissed the idea due to its size and a label 
would not fit.
But yes indeed, a letter or two wwill. I love the idea of writing the letter 
of each class you need it for.

Thanks. I'm not sold on bringing a laptop to class just for some small 
assignments if I can do it on the braille note, but I think flash drives are 
an excellent way to distribute data to people or save files for yourself.

As for the ultrabook, I'll look into it though since I'm curious. I did not 
know that netbooks were going out and tablets and ultrabooks were coming in. 
I knew about the growth of tablets, but was not aware they would start 
replacing existing technology so soon.

So, is the weight of one about 2 pounds? Also, is a ultrabook running 
regular windows 7 or some mobile version of windows?
Are they the  size of laptops? If so, sizes vary based on monitor sizes. For 
instance, my laptop monitor is fairly big, making the whole laptop bigger 
than many are. I think its monitor is 17  inches.

Well, I will see when school starts if I can use the flash drive for 
assignments; time will tell once I talk to the professor.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Jewel
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Hi all,
I recently heard that companies are discontinuing netbooks for two
reasons: 1) the ultrabook is a better option than the netbook, and 2)
tablets are taking over. Netbooks are going to become hard to find,
and when they die, they'll die for good. An ultrabook or tablet might
be a better option.

What I do is write the assignment on my laptop during class with
everyone else, save it to a flash drive, and when everyone turns in
their assignments on paper, mine just comes in a different format
(flash drive). Then the teacher can open the file on her or his
computer, print it if they desire, grade it, and return the flash
drive to me next class. I keep one flash drive for each class and use
Dymotape to label each with the first letter of the class (b for
biology, s for sociology, st for statistics this semester). At the end
of the semester, I peel off the Dymotape and replace it with letters
corresponding to the next semester's classes.

~Jewel

On 1/11/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just email everything to my teacher, and my boss, for theat matter. I 
> have
> a laptop, so if I need to. I will email myself, but my teacher has an 
> iPone,
> so she would rather me do things in pages, and or note pad, and just send
> it. She is deaf, so, we either sign, in person, write, or email when we r
> not in class.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 23:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Lavonya,
>> nice that you have an ipad and laptop. do you use an external keyboard or
>> use the screen?
>> I might get one for a present. an ipad may be a good portable way for
>> writing in class or in a situation where I need something portable to
>> write on. If using an ipad, how do you get your writing to the professor?
>> email?
>> Also, are you able to save the documents as Word files or rich text
>> format?
>> Most professors want Microsoft word if possible.
>>
>> That's nice an ipad works for you.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> i just use my iPad, and or laptop. but i sit somewhere close to the
>> teacher, in case they want to see if i am taking notes, or doing the
>> written assignment. this way, there is no question about what i am really
>> doing. i use zoom text on my laptop, and the print on my iPad is so huge,
>> that a teacher can see it, from a pretty good distance.
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2013, at 16:15, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ashley and all:
>>> I agree with everything that has been said on this thread. I would
>>> just like to add a few pointers.
>>> In college, in addition to purchasing paper folders and binders, I
>>> also bought about three or four thumb drives. Depending on the
>>> professor, I might have a thumb drive for just hat course. Most
>>> college have Wifi everywhere, so if you have a laptop in class
>>> assignments should never be a problem. However, you have to have a
>>> plan and discuss it with your professor beforehand. I had an Italian
>>> class, where the teacher would sometimes write the quiz questions on
>>> the board. Instead of making me go to the ODS office, she would email
>>> me the quiz right before class, and I would download it once I got
>>> into the classroom. As it was a foreign language, and depending on the
>>> quiz, I'd sometimes take that file, put it in my Braille Note and
>>> answer the questions. I'd then email it to her right away, and would
>>> be done along with everyone else in class.
>>> If you are doing an in-class writing assignment, part of the
>>> educational challenge is to do it in a short amount of time. So, it is
>>> not really fair to have an in-class writing assignment, take it home,
>>> complete it, and then send it to the professor. Instead, if you do not
>>> have a laptop, I suggest writing it in your braille note, saving it in
>>> your thumb drive, and giving that to your professor. Otherwise, most
>>> professors are ok with you emailing things as soon as possible, with
>>> the understanding that the assignment was completed during class.
>>> In most colleges, students have their own laptops, and at least a
>>> handful will bring them to class. So, when it comes to peer-review,
>>> most of the time, the professors will announce that it is a planned
>>> activity for a given class. In that case I have done one of two
>>> things.
>>> 1. I know that other students bring laptops and pair up with one of
>>> them. We exchange files via email or thumb drive, and do the editing.
>>> 2. I notify the professor ahead of time, if they do not allow
>>> electronics in the classroom, my dilemma, and we figure out a
>>> solution. that has involved, emailing the assignment to a student
>>> ahead of time, bringing a print copy and them sending me an electronic
>>> copy, or simply lifting the electronics band for that particular
>>> assignment.
>>> Whatever you choose to do, discuss it with the professor. It is not
>>> their responsibility to figure out your accommodations for you. You
>>> are not their only student. So, have a candid conversation during
>>> which you bring up these scenarios and together you figure out a
>>> course of action. As blind students who need accommodations, we must
>>> always keep in mind that we have to take responsibility for our own
>>> education. While in a perfect world everything would be accessible,
>>> and everyone would think of the barriers we might face during a
>>> particular class activity and justify for it, that is not the way it
>>> works. Here, I'd also like to add a note about always, always abiding
>>> by the honor code. Professors put a lot of trust in us when they allow
>>> us to use technologies which most of them do not understand, in order
>>> for us to have access to the educational materials we need. So, it is
>>> important, that as responsible, mature adults, we always abide by the
>>> honor code, and are ethical in the decisions we make when doing our
>>> academic work. There should never be a question whether accommodations
>>> compromise academic integrity, and unfortunately the question does
>>> arise on occasion. And in the long run, that hurts the entire disabled
>>> student population, and entities will take the few instances where
>>> accommodations were used to violate academic integrity as a reason why
>>> accommodations should not be granted. Furthermore, if a student uses
>>> their accommodations to cheat, if they are caught they now have a
>>> permanent blemish on their academic record. But even if they are not,
>>> that student is not actually learning, and so what is the point of
>>> paying sometimes, hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend an
>>> educational institution and then squander away the opportunity to
>>> learn?
>>>
>>> Ok, that's my rant for the day.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/9/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Laptops are the easiest way to go.  We did the same sort of thing with
>>>> in class writings and peer critiques in a history class I had, and
>>>> having my partner just look at my screen worked great.  If not then if
>>>> your professor permits computer use maybe you could save the writing
>>>> to a flashdrive as a text file and have someone else with a laptop
>>>> peer review it on their machine?  Then you could also hand that drive
>>>> to the teacher and not have to worry about remembering to email it in
>>>> or do anything with it later.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/13, Lisa E Roszyk <rosz1878 at fredonia.edu> wrote:
>>>>> If thbere is in class writing Iuse my laptop if Iknow its going to be
>>>>> something Iwont have enough time to finishb in class Iwait until ikm
>>>>> back
>>>>> in the dorm then email it to the teacher if its a peer edit project it
>>>>> depen.ds on the subject but on.e thing Ihave done is find a partner 
>>>>> and
>>>>> get
>>>>> the ok to do the work out side of class with them generally typing 
>>>>> over
>>>>> skype or google doc is great you can type and edit automatically on
>>>>> each
>>>>> others documents and Ihave foun.d jaws works ok with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, christopher nusbaum
>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> What about peer editing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> As for me, I usually type it on my laptop and then email it to the
>>>>> professor using Wifi. Also, if the professor needs access to the
>>>>> writing
>>>>> in
>>>>> class, if you are using a laptop, you can have your instructor look at
>>>>> the
>>>>> screen. If you are doing writing as a group, you can type things out
>>>>> and
>>>>> let your group members look at the screen. I had one situation in 
>>>>> which
>>>>> we
>>>>> had an assignment as a group that we had to write a list of things and
>>>>> then
>>>>> place them on a white board for the class to see, so I just took down
>>>>> the
>>>>> list on my laptop and brought the laptop up while another group member
>>>>> copied what I had written onto the board. As far as assignments that I
>>>>> do
>>>>> alone in class, my professors so far have been fine with me emailing 
>>>>> it
>>>>> whenever I was able to get internet access, whether it be at school or
>>>>> when
>>>>> I got home as long as I sent it in on the day of the assignment.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> you can make an appointment with the professor ahead of time to work
>>>>> out
>>>>> a
>>>>> plan or place it in your letter of accomodations that you need to 
>>>>> email
>>>>> class assignments after class is over or at home. Another way to do it
>>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>> thumb drive that you save for this purpose that the professor can get
>>>>> the
>>>>> file from and then give back to you. If your note taker has a USB
>>>>> drive,
>>>>> this might be a good option.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>> its unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>> knows
>>>>> it usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>> Students are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>>> the
>>>>> writing. They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them 
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>>>>> are
>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I’ve usually written outside class and
>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> other students, but I don’t usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could 
>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>> over there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>> feel."
>>> —
>>> Maya Angelou
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:18:14 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:18:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Kirt,

I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.

What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
them to the same standards.

Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.



On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley and Carly,
> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does
> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as everybody
> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because
> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write
> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not have
> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at
> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
> apologize. Please enlighten me.
> Warmest regards,
> Kirt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Carley,
>> I do the same as you usually.
>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>> desktop.
>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before
>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>
>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I
>> email it them soon after class.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>
>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>> Aleeha
>>>
>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> > Arielle
>>> >
>>> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>> >> professor?
>>> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Deb
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>> >>> Typically
>>> >>> its
>>> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>> >>> >>> it
>>> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>> >>> Students
>>> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>> >>> writing.
>>> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since
>>> >>> we
>>> >>> are
>>> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>>> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>> >>> over
>>> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ashley
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> nabs-l:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 02:27:17 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:27:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <9A8A34F029154CC3A675ACBFD121EE3A@acerd37f251f21>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21><AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com><D5E14D29F683401D87429D4831DA6CAB@OwnerPC>
	<9A8A34F029154CC3A675ACBFD121EE3A@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <9379E0DB60EB4FC6B8CB115F3E20A8DC@OwnerPC>

Misty,
I ran into that problem with the same company; at least I think it was 
pearson.
I remember trying it out and finding out that buttons were unlabeled.
If I were you, I'd ask the professor for an alternative assignment. Then I'd 
write a letter to the company and suggest that products be accessible.

You could also try and find a reader to read you the screen for this part.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

Hi,
Yes, this is the main problem. Some of the flash content is not accessible
and the buttons are unlabeled, and also a lot of the practice and
assignments require you to match the vocabulary word or audio pronunciation
to the picture of it. Another issue with assignments is if there is a button
for an audio, it does not appear at all on the page so is not read. I am not
sure if it is something graphical or not.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab


> Hi,
> I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
> Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. the 
> problems were in flash content or pictures that were not readable.
>
> I hope you can find a work around for this.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cody Bair
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
>
> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I 
> took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all 
> of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
>
> Cody
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My 
>> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our 
>> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any 
>> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 
>> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not 
>> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
>> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
>> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in 
>> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
>> Thank you,
>> Misty
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:32:00 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:32:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B47462C5-1DCA-4055-88C7-E645564C2A80@gmail.com>

true.
I am against any alternative which give us unfair advantages, and this would absolutely be one of these cases.
given all the points we made, there is no acceptable reason one would do that.

mauricio
On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kirt,
> 
> I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
> there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
> is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
> you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
> or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
> fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
> same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
> then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
> either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
> down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.
> 
> What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
> I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
> you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
> of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
> professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
> could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
> would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
> been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
> in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
> also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
> because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
> them to the same standards.
> 
> Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley and Carly,
>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does
>> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
>> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as everybody
>> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because
>> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write
>> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not have
>> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at
>> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
>> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
>> apologize. Please enlighten me.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Kirt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Carley,
>>> I do the same as you usually.
>>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>> desktop.
>>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before
>>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>> 
>>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I
>>> email it them soon after class.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>> 
>>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>> 
>>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>    If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>> Aleeha
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>>>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>>> professor?
>>>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:36:21 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:36:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
In-Reply-To: <FBFA97BF81D14C62A3FAB6E7D013B3AC@OwnerPC>
References: <23E9064D-8D56-4CB6-B68A-DAD9AAF8F36B@gmail.com><AAC4C6AD-0BD4-497D-AADA-FE170773B071@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111114807.01bf2090@comcast.net>
	<FBFA97BF81D14C62A3FAB6E7D013B3AC@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <35B01FB9-3992-4BC1-B12E-AD3DE987C3FC@gmail.com>

hello,

even if it was not a quiz, i do not usually take any work that is supposed to be done by me to a pair situation, unless there is really no way out, though i would if the lickers were touchscreen with no accessibility or something.

mauricio
On Jan 11, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Carley,
> no not if it’s a quiz; you have to give your own answers.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:49 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about i clickers
> 
> Good morning, as far as work with a clicker, couldn't you just pair
> up with someone else, who could "click" your responces?
> Car At 04:52 PM 1/9/2013, Jordyn Castor wrote:
>> All iClicker models are now accessible and you can special order them with Braille on the buttons (not really necessary if you can distinguish tactile letters), and with the vibrating mode which confirms your answer was recorded.
>> Jordyn
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > hello all,
>> >
>> > some of my classes use Iclickers for students to respond to
>> questions as a manner of majoring participation.
>> > do we have any that is particularly accessible, or aill any work
>> for the blind?
>> > if they do not, do you have any alternatives? I haven't spoken to
>> the professor yet but i would like your feedback on this subject.
>> >
>> > thank you in advance,
>> >
>> > mauricio
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:37:25 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:37:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
In-Reply-To: <9A8A34F029154CC3A675ACBFD121EE3A@acerd37f251f21>
References: <19E5FBB681C246CFA6C3FCEF58E93E4B@acerd37f251f21>
	<AB58F460-907E-4098-B4B5-E71DCC41A472@yahoo.com>
	<D5E14D29F683401D87429D4831DA6CAB@OwnerPC>
	<9A8A34F029154CC3A675ACBFD121EE3A@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <47AF382C-27F2-4722-BEEE-6120E90F9E6D@gmail.com>

Hi there. I majored in Spanish and German in school. When I went for my German lab, I had a student assist me with the lab work. You might want to ask the professor if you can work with one of your peers in the class. They would be able to use the computer, and you would tell them the answers to the questions.
Hope this helps!
Hope

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:57 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> Yes, this is the main problem. Some of the flash content is not accessible and the buttons are unlabeled, and also a lot of the practice and assignments require you to match the vocabulary word or audio pronunciation to the picture of it. Another issue with assignments is if there is a button for an audio, it does not appear at all on the page so is not read. I am not sure if it is something graphical or not.
> Misty
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
>> Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. the problems were in flash content or pictures that were not readable.
>> 
>> I hope you can find a work around for this.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Cody Bair
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
>> 
>> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
>> 
>> Cody
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10 on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
>>> Thank you,
>>> Misty
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:38:47 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:38:47 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <B47462C5-1DCA-4055-88C7-E645564C2A80@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B47462C5-1DCA-4055-88C7-E645564C2A80@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhueuZRDBpsXhcMsWpy=tzhgHqYqCA7dpVZcL-GHB9_QOFmA@mail.gmail.com>

Mauricio,
  I can't see an acceptable reason.  That doesn't mean that,
hypothetically, there isn't one.  I just can't fathom how this is
fair, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> true.
> I am against any alternative which give us unfair advantages, and this would
> absolutely be one of these cases.
> given all the points we made, there is no acceptable reason one would do
> that.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Kirt,
>>
>> I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
>> there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
>> is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
>> you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
>> or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
>> fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
>> same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
>> then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
>> either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
>> down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.
>>
>> What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
>> I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
>> you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
>> of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
>> professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
>> could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
>> would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
>> been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
>> in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
>> also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
>> because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
>> them to the same standards.
>>
>> Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ashley and Carly,
>>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does
>>> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
>>> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>> everybody
>>> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because
>>> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write
>>> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not
>>> have
>>> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work
>>> at
>>> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
>>> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
>>> apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carley,
>>>> I do the same as you usually.
>>>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>>> desktop.
>>>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before
>>>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as
>>>> I
>>>> email it them soon after class.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>
>>>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>>
>>>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>>>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>>    If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>>>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>>>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>>> Aleeha
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>>>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>>>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>>>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>>>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>>>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>>>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>>>> professor?
>>>>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:42:00 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:42:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABDhueuZRDBpsXhcMsWpy=tzhgHqYqCA7dpVZcL-GHB9_QOFmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B47462C5-1DCA-4055-88C7-E645564C2A80@gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuZRDBpsXhcMsWpy=tzhgHqYqCA7dpVZcL-GHB9_QOFmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EB04061-2799-4C76-A6CB-854F2EB31B59@gmail.com>

true, I shall give people the benefit of the doubt, but for the moment I am totally with you on that.

mauricio
On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mauricio,
>  I can't see an acceptable reason.  That doesn't mean that,
> hypothetically, there isn't one.  I just can't fathom how this is
> fair, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
>  Best,
> Kirt
> 
> On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> true.
>> I am against any alternative which give us unfair advantages, and this would
>> absolutely be one of these cases.
>> given all the points we made, there is no acceptable reason one would do
>> that.
>> 
>> mauricio
>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Kirt,
>>> 
>>> I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
>>> there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
>>> is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
>>> you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
>>> or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
>>> fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
>>> same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
>>> then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
>>> either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
>>> down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.
>>> 
>>> What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
>>> I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
>>> you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
>>> of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
>>> professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
>>> could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
>>> would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
>>> been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
>>> in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
>>> also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
>>> because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
>>> them to the same standards.
>>> 
>>> Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ashley and Carly,
>>>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does
>>>> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
>>>> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>>> everybody
>>>> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because
>>>> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write
>>>> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not
>>>> have
>>>> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work
>>>> at
>>>> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
>>>> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
>>>> apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>> Kirt
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Carley,
>>>>> I do the same as you usually.
>>>>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>>>> desktop.
>>>>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before
>>>>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as
>>>>> I
>>>>> email it them soon after class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>>> 
>>>>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>>>>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>>>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>>>   If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>>>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>>>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>>>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>>>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>>>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>>>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>>>>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>>>>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>>>> Aleeha
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>>>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>>>>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>>>>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>>>>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>>>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>>>>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>>>>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>>>>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>>>>> professor?
>>>>>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 02:46:49 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:46:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <3EB04061-2799-4C76-A6CB-854F2EB31B59@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
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	<3EB04061-2799-4C76-A6CB-854F2EB31B59@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FagXdfi-OtyPzMRX9Z0B9zeg35sske+VijRYwRTzzzdpg@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,

Yeah, Ultrabooks are about that weight and run the regular version of
Windows  7.  Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you could get
a 17 inch some way.  (I remember being asked if a 15 inch would do, so
if they asked that I would assume there are other options available.

On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> true, I shall give people the benefit of the doubt, but for the moment I am
> totally with you on that.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mauricio,
>>  I can't see an acceptable reason.  That doesn't mean that,
>> hypothetically, there isn't one.  I just can't fathom how this is
>> fair, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
>>  Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> true.
>>> I am against any alternative which give us unfair advantages, and this
>>> would
>>> absolutely be one of these cases.
>>> given all the points we made, there is no acceptable reason one would do
>>> that.
>>>
>>> mauricio
>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
>>>> there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
>>>> is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
>>>> you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
>>>> or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
>>>> fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
>>>> same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
>>>> then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
>>>> either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
>>>> down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.
>>>>
>>>> What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
>>>> I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
>>>> you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
>>>> of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
>>>> professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
>>>> could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
>>>> would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
>>>> been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
>>>> in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
>>>> also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
>>>> because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
>>>> them to the same standards.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ashley and Carly,
>>>>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>>>> does
>>>>> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
>>>>> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>>>> everybody
>>>>> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely
>>>>> because
>>>>> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can
>>>>> write
>>>>> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not
>>>>> have
>>>>> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of
>>>>> work
>>>>> at
>>>>> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
>>>>> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
>>>>> apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Carley,
>>>>>> I do the same as you usually.
>>>>>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> email it them soon after class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>>>>>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>>>>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>>>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>>>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>>>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>>>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>>>>   If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>>>>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>>>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>>>>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>>>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>>>>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>>>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>>>>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>>>>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>>>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>>>>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>>>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>>>>>> classes.
>>>>>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>>>>>> possibilities
>>>>>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>>>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>>>>> Aleeha
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>>>>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>>>>>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>>>>>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>>>>>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>>>>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>>>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>>>>>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>>>>>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>>>>>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>>>>>> professor?
>>>>>>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 03:53:56 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:53:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FagXdfi-OtyPzMRX9Z0B9zeg35sske+VijRYwRTzzzdpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net><0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC><25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com><CAFja7FbKrzaWL32vy7He0Tvqd9SYbZ8B2j5KfzCMKpPLWJZJGQ@mail.gmail.com><B47462C5-1DCA-4055-88C7-E645564C2A80@gmail.com><CABDhueuZRDBpsXhcMsWpy=tzhgHqYqCA7dpVZcL-GHB9_QOFmA@mail.gmail.com><3EB04061-2799-4C76-A6CB-854F2EB31B59@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FagXdfi-OtyPzMRX9Z0B9zeg35sske+VijRYwRTzzzdpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2F736194CAA40B3AF4E5A6D8B3AB2B0@OwnerPC>

Kaiti,
thanks for letting me know; now I have a better understanding of what an 
ultrabook is.
I don't have one though and will try and work with my braille note.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:46 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Ashley,

Yeah, Ultrabooks are about that weight and run the regular version of
Windows  7.  Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you could get
a 17 inch some way.  (I remember being asked if a 15 inch would do, so
if they asked that I would assume there are other options available.

On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> true, I shall give people the benefit of the doubt, but for the moment I 
> am
> totally with you on that.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mauricio,
>>  I can't see an acceptable reason.  That doesn't mean that,
>> hypothetically, there isn't one.  I just can't fathom how this is
>> fair, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
>>  Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/11/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> true.
>>> I am against any alternative which give us unfair advantages, and this
>>> would
>>> absolutely be one of these cases.
>>> given all the points we made, there is no acceptable reason one would do
>>> that.
>>>
>>> mauricio
>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree with you there.  I could see it being justifyable if
>>>> there were no other alternative, but the whole point of the time limit
>>>> is to spark critical thinking and let the teacher know whether or not
>>>> you really know the material well enough that you can recite it back
>>>> or readily expound upon it with your own logic.  I would actually be
>>>> fearful of trying to do something like that out of class without the
>>>> same time limit and professor supervision as everyone else because
>>>> then the professor would have every right to consider that I checked
>>>> either my notes, textbook, or the internet before writing something
>>>> down.  That's an issue I would rather avoid completely.
>>>>
>>>> What I've also found at my university, where for most of my professors
>>>> I'm the first blind student they've come into contact with, the more
>>>> you can do just like your sighted peers the better their impression is
>>>> of you.  It may sound kind of silly, but I think it's true; one of my
>>>> professors said last semester that she had no idea blind students
>>>> could be so independent in their classwork because she assumed that I
>>>> would actually need or frequently use all the accomodations I have
>>>> been approved for.  This not only makes them good allies for you tou
>>>> in cases where you need letters or recommendation or something, but it
>>>> also helps pave the way for future blind students they might teach
>>>> because they'll know to treat them like any other student and hold
>>>> them to the same standards.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for my ranting blurb at the end.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/11/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ashley and Carly,
>>>>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>>>> does
>>>>> during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have
>>>>> alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>>>> everybody
>>>>> else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely
>>>>> because
>>>>> class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can
>>>>> write
>>>>> under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not
>>>>> have
>>>>> had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of
>>>>> work
>>>>> at
>>>>> home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is
>>>>> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I
>>>>> apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Carley,
>>>>>> I do the same as you usually.
>>>>>> I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>> If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> email it them soon after class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>>>>>> take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>>>>> then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>>>> emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>>>> captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>>>> classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>>>> notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>>>>   If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>>>>>>> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>>>>> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>>>>>> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>>>>> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>>>>>>> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>>>>> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>>>>>>> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>>>>>>> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>>>>> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>>>>>> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>>>>> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>>>>>> classes.
>>>>>>> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>>>>>> possibilities
>>>>>>> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>>>>> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>>>>> Aleeha
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>>>>>> netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>>>>>>>> about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>>>>>>>> think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>>>>>>>> kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>>>>>> laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>>>>> communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>>>>>>>> Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>>>>>>>> computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>>>>>>>> neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>>>>>> professor?
>>>>>>>>> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>>>>>>> Typically
>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>>>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>>>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>>>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>>>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>>>>>>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 04:19:15 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:19:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccomodating professors
Message-ID: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were open to working with us.
But they are not and some professors are visual in their teaching style.
I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would not be solved; I use audio for reading.


I need an elective and had signed up for survey of american literature.
I had contacted this professor in December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major topics covered.
This would help me decide if the class was a good one to take.

I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and
he presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction.
He stated the teaching method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop quizzes.
So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I know I can take exams in the testing center.

That is why I asked about how you all took quizzes.
Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it fit my schedule.

Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and to ask a few more questions such as if 
you needed to bring a book to reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature we were discussing; 
students had to bring their books to look at specific pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes after class orally.
He discourages me from the class and suggests his format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online.
I should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened.

Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there!
I am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college.
This occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10.
My disability support service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later.
She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get.
Anyway, I emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we still needed to talk. I am looking for another class.
I told her that after hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look for another class.

So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also has years of experience. 
But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor.
Well, I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this.
So, I’m trying now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as well.
If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or anything?
Would you simply move on?


Take care and thanks for reading.



Ashley

From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 04:25:26 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:25:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccomodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <5CEDF68B-6DFC-4431-B734-4C11D2885211@gmail.com>

I complained to the dean about a different situation yesterday; I would complain to the dean if it were your situation I was dealing with.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:19 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were open to working with us.
> But they are not and some professors are visual in their teaching style.
> I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would not be solved; I use audio for reading.
> 
> 
> I need an elective and had signed up for survey of american literature.
> I had contacted this professor in December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major topics covered.
> This would help me decide if the class was a good one to take.
> 
> I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and
> he presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction.
> He stated the teaching method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop quizzes.
> So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I know I can take exams in the testing center.
> 
> That is why I asked about how you all took quizzes.
> Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it fit my schedule.
> 
> Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and to ask a few more questions such as if 
> you needed to bring a book to reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature we were discussing; 
> students had to bring their books to look at specific pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes after class orally.
> He discourages me from the class and suggests his format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online.
> I should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened.
> 
> Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there!
> I am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college.
> This occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10.
> My disability support service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later.
> She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get.
> Anyway, I emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we still needed to talk. I am looking for another class.
> I told her that after hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look for another class.
> 
> So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also has years of experience. 
> But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor.
> Well, I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this.
> So, I’m trying now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as well.
> If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or anything?
> Would you simply move on?
> 
> 
> Take care and thanks for reading.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 04:27:15 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:27:15 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <mailman.56.1772982271.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

WE need to educate the public.  I personally hate educating 
anyone, hence my choice to see which people are more open and 
which people are not.  I have experience trying to educate the 
general public.  Legislature politicians are the worst, of 
course, except some in Colorado.  Very few politicians undestan 
our nees in uuniversity systems.  To avoid the famous Florida 
lawsuit, I think professors, another group of people who aren't 
well educated despite their credentials, need to know these 
things before blind people pop up in their classes.  And the 
blind neeed to be a little more vocal so that we can avoid 
lawsuits period.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:35:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

Beth,

I agree with you, but the problem is college professors don't 
know
that these programs are inaccessible to the blind, nor do the
developers themselves. That's why a great deal of our advocacy 
work is
in educating the public.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Beth Taurasi 
<denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:

 It's the same with SmartMusic and other lab stuff.  MyLabSchool 
might be inaccessible.  Don't college profs know that such labs 
are bad for blind people?  Certain forms of math lab softwadre 
are inaccessible, which led to a famous lawsuit in Florida.  Two 
of my friend were victims of unsympathetic, and yes, unempathetic 
college professors.  They ended up suing the college and winnning 
the suit.  They settled major.  If the inaccessible ssoftware is 
part of the grade, and if the professor does not show empathy and 
sympathy towards your situation, remind the professor that you 
are blind, for one, and for another, inaccessible software is 
against the law.  I don't mean to be harsh, but I believe 
inversities need to start finding accessible ways to do homework 
for the students.  Ever thought Spanish was an audible thing 
first?  We all pick up language orally, not visually.
 Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
 To: Misty Dawn Bradley <MistyDBradley at gmail.com>, National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:15:30 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

 Hi Misty,

 I am pretty sure I used it a few years ago.  If it's the same 
spanish
 lab your professor wants to use, (I know we used the same 
publisher at
 least if not the same textbook), then it's pretty darn 
inaccessible,
 as you've found out.  My braillist ended up brailling the 
on-line
 readings and practice quizzes and stuff for me and I would have 
to
 email my teacher my answers instead of doing it online.  Perhaps 
your
 professor will let your ds office have access to an account or 
they
 can request access from the publisher so they can put the 
material in
 an alternate format.

 Hope this helps,


 On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? 
My
 instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 
percent of our
 final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone 
had any
 experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using 
Jaws 10 on
 my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws 
will not read
 the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen 
readers that
 work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely 
inaccessible using
 any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in the past to 
complete
 your assignments in this type of lab?
 Thank you,
 Misty
 _______________________________________________
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 --
 Kaiti

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From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 04:27:17 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:27:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <mailman.57.1772982271.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Question: why do we so heavily rely on the visual learning for 
all when the blind can't learn this wagy?  I learned Spanish 
through audible cues, not through pictures of stuff.  And I think 
it's all graphics, the buttons you mention.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:57:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

Hi,
Yes, this is the main problem. Some of the flash content is not 
accessible
and the buttons are unlabeled, and also a lot of the practice and
assignments require you to match the vocabulary word or audio 
pronunciation
to the picture of it. Another issue with assignments is if there 
is a button
for an audio, it does not appear at all on the page so is not 
read. I am not
sure if it is something graphical or not.
Misty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab


 Hi,
 I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
 Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. 
the
 problems were in flash content or pictures that were not 
readable.

 I hope you can find a work around for this.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Cody Bair
 Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
 To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab

 As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a 
class I
 took last semester that used one of these programs I had to 
complete all
 of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.

 Cody

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley 
<mistydbradley at gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi all,
 Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? 
My
 instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 
percent of our
 final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone 
had any
 experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using 
Jaws 10
 on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws 
will not
 read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other 
screen
 readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is 
completely
 inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all 
done in
 the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
 Thank you,
 Misty
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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ahoo.com

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 nabs-l:
 
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From carlymih at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 04:57:18 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:57:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111204809.01c62758@comcast.net>

Hi, Ashley,

Surely you don't want to be in a place, or  under 
the custodianship of someone who has tried to 
dissuade you but to no avail? Move on. It isn't a 
constructive use of your time, because you know 
professor X. would never think of putting such 
time/effort  into your guy's interaction. It's 
not anyone's "fault" it's just this dude had a 
bad attitude, sometimes you run into such 
instructors. If anything in fact, win them over 
with kindness, empathy, not because of his 
attitude toward you or toward blindness but 
because of his own unique,  komf.1/11/2013, you wrote:
>Hi all, I’m here to vent about a situation. I 
>wish all professors were open to working with 
>us. But they are not and some professors are 
>visual in their teaching style. I certainly am 
>proactive and try and work out issues with 
>professors ahead of time. But I do not have a 
>book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot 
>look at specific paragraphs. that one would not 
>be solved; I use audio for reading. I need an 
>elective and had signed up for survey of 
>american literature. I had contacted this 
>professor in December to find out about the 
>class such as his teaching style and major 
>topics covered. This would help me decide if the 
>class was a good one to take. I decided it was. 
>The professor stated he used an anthology and he 
>presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction. 
>He stated the teaching method was discussions, a 
>paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop 
>quizzes. So, I think at this point, discussions 
>are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely 
>its just to reinforce the other information; and 
>I know I can take exams in the testing center. 
>That is why I asked about how you all took 
>quizzes. Well, I thought we were fine. He did 
>say there were other sections of the class that 
>may be more likely to run versus his which did 
>not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked 
>this class since it fit my schedule. Well, after 
>emailing the professor to say I’m coming and 
>to ask a few more questions such as if you 
>needed to bring a book to reference pages as 
>other english teachers have done in the past, he 
>emailed me back. He answered my questions saying 
>his videos showed the literature we were 
>discussing; students had to bring their books to 
>look at specific pages and even paragraphs to 
>discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes 
>after class orally. He discourages me from the 
>class and suggests his format is not the best 
>for me. He suggests I take the class online. I 
>should point out after receiving this 
>discouraging email, I offered to call him 
>thursday morning to discuss his questions and 
>see if we could work out something. I said email 
>may lead to more misunderstandings and thought 
>to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk 
>via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. 
>He did not return my calls. I realized  a 
>conversation would be best so hopefully no 
>misunderstandings happened. Well, to make 
>matters worse, he goes to my disability 
>counselor and talks to her about his concerns. 
>What he said, I do not know! I was not there! I 
>am upset he’d do this without involving me. 
>This is college. This occurred on yesterday, 
>Thursday, January 10. My disability support 
>service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was 
>busy and heard her message later. She said that 
>we needed to talk. She said there would be some 
>challenges in the class and wanted to discuss 
>what accomodations I could get. Anyway, I 
>emailed her saying I was too busy today, but 
>I’d call her monday if we still needed to 
>talk. I am looking for another class. I told her 
>that after hearing this professor’s 
>reservations about it, and my own concerns about 
>following videos and class discussions without a 
>book to skim, I would look for another class. 
>So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with 
>him. I was so hopeful originally since this 
>professor has decent ratings. He also has years 
>of experience. But I won’t be in a class which 
>does not benefit my learning style and work with 
>a professor who violated my right to privacy by 
>speaking to the dss counselor without me being 
>there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he 
>would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail 
>from the dss counselor said he talked to her 
>about the class I was enrolled in and she wished 
>to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out 
>and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of 
>talking to me and seeing what I might offer as 
>solutions, he turns to the dss counselor. Well, 
>I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude 
>than this. So, I’m trying now to get over my 
>hurt feelings and look for something I’ll 
>enjoy as well. If this has happened to you, 
>would you complain to the dean or anything? 
>Would you simply move on? Take care and thanks 
>for reading. Ashley 
>_______________________________________________ 
>nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org 
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get 
>your account info for nabs-l: 
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 04:57:30 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:57:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccomodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <1ADF8D8A-E8E9-4DCD-B9EE-2456CD7768A2@gmail.com>

Ashley, could you use a note taker or computer to read? That would b easier in all classes.

Sophie Trist
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:19 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were open to working with us.
> But they are not and some professors are visual in their teaching style.
> I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would not be solved; I use audio for reading.
> 
> 
> I need an elective and had signed up for survey of american literature.
> I had contacted this professor in December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major topics covered.
> This would help me decide if the class was a good one to take.
> 
> I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and
> he presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction.
> He stated the teaching method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop quizzes.
> So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I know I can take exams in the testing center.
> 
> That is why I asked about how you all took quizzes.
> Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it fit my schedule.
> 
> Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and to ask a few more questions such as if 
> you needed to bring a book to reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature we were discussing; 
> students had to bring their books to look at specific pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes after class orally.
> He discourages me from the class and suggests his format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online.
> I should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened.
> 
> Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there!
> I am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college.
> This occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10.
> My disability support service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later.
> She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get.
> Anyway, I emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we still needed to talk. I am looking for another class.
> I told her that after hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look for another class.
> 
> So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also has years of experience. 
> But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor.
> Well, I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this.
> So, I’m trying now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as well.
> If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or anything?
> Would you simply move on?
> 
> 
> Take care and thanks for reading.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 05:00:46 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:00:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
Message-ID: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were not accessible.
Does jaws tell you what 
answer you selected as you review the question?

The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.

Thanks.
Ashley

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 05:02:32 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:02:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130111204809.01c62758@comcast.net>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111204809.01c62758@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C4C033E45B904E3890285A5A0E2BADEF@OwnerPC>

Carley,
if what you mean by "move on" is taking another class, I'm thinking of doing 
that.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Carly Mihalakis
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi, Ashley,

Surely you don't want to be in a place, or  under
the custodianship of someone who has tried to
dissuade you but to no avail? Move on. It isn't a
constructive use of your time, because you know
professor X. would never think of putting such
time/effort  into your guy's interaction. It's
not anyone's "fault" it's just this dude had a
bad attitude, sometimes you run into such
instructors. If anything in fact, win them over
with kindness, empathy, not because of his
attitude toward you or toward blindness but
because of his own unique,  komf.1/11/2013, you wrote:
>Hi all, I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were 
>open to working with us. But they are not and some professors are visual in 
>their teaching style. I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues 
>with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in 
>english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would 
>not be solved; I use audio for reading. I need an elective and had signed 
>up for survey of american literature. I had contacted this professor in 
>December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major 
>topics covered. This would help me decide if the class was a good one to 
>take. I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and he 
>presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction. He stated the teaching 
>method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop 
>quizzes. So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a 
>challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I 
>know I can take exams in the testing center. That is why I asked about how 
>you all took quizzes. Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were 
>other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which 
>did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it 
>fit my schedule. Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and 
>to ask a few more questions such as if you needed to bring a book to 
>reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed 
>me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature 
>we were discussing; students had to bring their books to look at specific 
>pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes 
>after class orally. He discourages me from the class and suggests his 
>format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online. I 
>should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call 
>him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out 
>something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to 
>myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d 
>call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a 
>conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened. 
>Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks 
>to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there! I 
>am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college. This 
>occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10. My disability support service, 
>dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later. 
>She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in 
>the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get. Anyway, I 
>emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we 
>still needed to talk. I am looking for another class. I told her that after 
>hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about 
>following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look 
>for another class. So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I 
>was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also 
>has years of experience. But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit 
>my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to 
>privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without 
>my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice 
>mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was 
>enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out 
>and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing 
>what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor. Well, 
>I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this. So, I’m trying 
>now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as 
>well. If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or 
>anything? Would you simply move on? Take care and thanks for reading. 
>Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list 
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To 
>unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: 
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 05:12:25 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:12:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <07017997-B03E-4B45-9793-E67655FF4E81@gmail.com>

Hi there, with the version of blackboard that my community college has, Which I think is 9.1, quizzes seem to be Accessible. I was able to take my psychology 101 quizzes without issue. But then again I'm on a Mac. So that might not help you. There are However tips on using  screen readers, which seemed to be geared toward Jaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:00 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were not accessible.
> Does jaws tell you what 
> answer you selected as you review the question?
> 
> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
> 
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 05:17:42 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:17:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was 
very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he 
was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class 
because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also 
said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both presented 
in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my 
Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes. 
On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale than 
the normal students.
I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work 
something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of his 
office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class 
started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to 
choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going 
well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was 
one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just 
do a search for words in my word document.
Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to 
where her boots lay in the mud..."
I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole 
book.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 05:29:44 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:29:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <07017997-B03E-4B45-9793-E67655FF4E81@gmail.com>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
	<07017997-B03E-4B45-9793-E67655FF4E81@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FB29FBBC7D24677A62E5793380D74CC@OwnerPC>

oh thanks for telling me. if it works with voice over, I suspect it will do 
okay with jaws.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Josh Gregory
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:12 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes

Hi there, with the version of blackboard that my community college has, 
Which I think is 9.1, quizzes seem to be Accessible. I was able to take my 
psychology 101 quizzes without issue. But then again I'm on a Mac. So that 
might not help you. There are However tips on using  screen readers, which 
seemed to be geared toward Jaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:00 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were 
> not accessible.
> Does jaws tell you what
> answer you selected as you review the question?
>
> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the 
> quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 05:34:16 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:34:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>

Brandon,
Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in that 
class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give me 
pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
down by chapters or parts.
Each part or chapter is a large file.
So its impossible to look at a book as others do.

I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the reliance 
of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.

I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the dss 
office.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both presented
in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale than
the normal students.
I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of his
office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
do a search for words in my word document.
Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
where her boots lay in the mud..."
I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
book.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 05:40:16 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:40:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <D91FE0521561482C9920CA63E95B0B2F@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
My current campus uses Moodle instead of Blackboard, but I did use 
Blackboard at another campus I took classes at, and I was able to take 
quizzes without any trouble. Basically, there were questions, and then after 
each question, there were checkboxes with answer choices, and you just check 
the correct answer with the spacebar or enter. After you have answered all 
of the questions, there is usually a button for Submit or save or whatever 
the case may be. The only issue you may run into is that the quizzes may be 
timed depending on whether the instructor chose to time them, but usually I 
find that I am able to finish before time is up. Also, on Blackboard, 
instructors can limit the number of attempts, so it is best to make sure 
that you are definitely ready to take the quiz before entering it, because 
once you close the quiz window if the attempts are limited to just one, then 
it will lock you out of the quiz. I had this happen one time on Blackboard 
where I was new to it and hit the wrong button and accidentally closed it, 
but I explained what had happened to my professor, so he was able to unlock 
it for me to try once more because I closed it before I could answer any of 
the questions.
Anyway, this is my experience with Blackboard.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:00 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes


> Hi all,
>
> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were 
> not accessible.
> Does jaws tell you what
> answer you selected as you review the question?
>
> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the 
> quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 05:45:00 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:45:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to 
where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by 
sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then 
if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be 
able to find the paragraph easier.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
> down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
> dss office.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
> presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
> quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
> than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
> his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 06:01:06 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:01:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
when you open the PDF go to
"save as other"
hit text
Enter the name and location and there you go.
Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating, 
I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi,
If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
able to find the paragraph easier.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
> down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
> dss office.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
> presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
> quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
> than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
> his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 06:20:20 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:20:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>

well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as text. 
I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.

Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will 
give me a doc file.
Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive to 
read on my braillenote  in class.
They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not invested 
the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could fight with 
the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format such as rtf or 
doc files.
But they don't.

This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate 
students.
I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I try 
and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take another 
class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, there is 
nothing you can do.
If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The 
only reason
I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she 
spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.

I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I 
never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find an 
instructor willing to work with me. I
have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I think 
all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos to be 
described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't required 
to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me they don't 
have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t auditorily.

Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think 
discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and email 
her that.

It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email 
professors it should remain between you and them period.
I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have 
this right.
No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am 
tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes, 
that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, I 
will do that.

Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have 
written proof of it.

Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
when you open the PDF go to
"save as other"
hit text
Enter the name and location and there you go.
Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating,
I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi,
If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
able to find the paragraph easier.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
> down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
> dss office.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
> presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
> quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
> than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
> his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 06:22:06 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:22:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CABDhuev1653d7Z-ONE2RAb+Sie-WLg4vv7bnf9TE+opkkFozMg@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  I've never ran in to a situation quite like this, but it's probably
a matter of time.  In general, though, here's what I try and do
whenever I have a disagreement with an authority figure somewhere that
involves my blindness and acommodations that may need to be made for
me.
  First, I try and see if I'm thinking too narowly to solve the
problem.  I find it's real easy to get stuck in the rut of believing I
already know the one and only way I can do something, and therefore
nothing the other person says is of any value.  Maybe you could have
advocated for a paper braille copy of the book you'd need.  Maybe, by
listening to the class discussion carefully, you could have inferred
what part of the book was being talked about.  (of course this would
require some reading before hand, but it's usually worked for me in
discussions like the one you describe.)  Maybe you could have saved
the PDF file as a text file, then either read it on your Braille Note
as a .txt document or translated it into .brf or .kwb if you prefer
that format.  I'm not trying to judge, or criticize; I'm merely
suggesting that there is almost always a practical method to solve
something if only you look past your entrenched notions about how you
prefer to accomplish things.  If you don't have a way, make one.
Don't assume, ever, that you don't have multiple options to do what
needs doing.
  That being said, I don't blame you in the slightest for deciding
that this professor wasn't worth your time.  Being creative and
adabtable goes both ways and, in going behind your back to your DRC
counselor, your professor didn't show you the basic respect and
dignity you deserve.  To me, any instructor who would rather use your
case counselor to pressure you in to backing out of a class than talk
to you directly shouldn't be worth your time or energy.  Maybe another
professor teaches the same class?  Maybe you could, in fact, do it
online?  Or, if all else fails, I'm sure there's another interesting
class out there.
  Best of luck,
Kirt

On 1/11/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
> when you open the PDF go to
> "save as other"
> hit text
> Enter the name and location and there you go.
> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating,
>
> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi,
> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
> able to find the paragraph easier.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>
>> Brandon,
>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken
>>
>> down by chapters or parts.
>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>
>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>
>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
>> dss office.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>> presented
>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>> quizzes.
>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>> than
>> the normal students.
>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
>> his
>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>> just
>> do a search for words in my word document.
>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked
>> to
>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>> book.
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
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>
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 06:26:23 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:23 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <D91FE0521561482C9920CA63E95B0B2F@acerd37f251f21>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
	<D91FE0521561482C9920CA63E95B0B2F@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CABDhuescfoQP5uUr541ghwt8VpDq6AZd=UGHn0HxcXyigKzL+g@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  I've had my fair share of issues with blackboard.  (I still cringe
when I think about those stupid PDF image files that blackboard
wouldn't let me save on my computer.)  That being said, I've never had
a problem with any blackboard quizz being inaccessible, and I've taken
my fair share.  I use jaws and I switch between IE and firefox,
depending on what works best on the corner of the web I'm browsing.
  HTH,
Kirt

On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> My current campus uses Moodle instead of Blackboard, but I did use
> Blackboard at another campus I took classes at, and I was able to take
> quizzes without any trouble. Basically, there were questions, and then after
> each question, there were checkboxes with answer choices, and you just check
> the correct answer with the spacebar or enter. After you have answered all
> of the questions, there is usually a button for Submit or save or whatever
> the case may be. The only issue you may run into is that the quizzes may be
> timed depending on whether the instructor chose to time them, but usually I
> find that I am able to finish before time is up. Also, on Blackboard,
> instructors can limit the number of attempts, so it is best to make sure
> that you are definitely ready to take the quiz before entering it, because
> once you close the quiz window if the attempts are limited to just one, then
> it will lock you out of the quiz. I had this happen one time on Blackboard
> where I was new to it and hit the wrong button and accidentally closed it,
> but I explained what had happened to my professor, so he was able to unlock
> it for me to try once more because I closed it before I could answer any of
> the questions.
> Anyway, this is my experience with Blackboard.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:00 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
>> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were
>> not accessible.
>> Does jaws tell you what
>> answer you selected as you review the question?
>>
>> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
>> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the
>> quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
>> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 06:33:10 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:33:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CABDhueucnSJ6BQa0+Qpy3A+=nKWDzBJVX14jRv80zQZEsj-PjA@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  I don't think I'm exhagerating when I say that, if I were in a
college with a DSS office as terrible as you say yours is, I'd
strongly consider transferring the hell out of there as soon as I
could.  If you prefer braille, you have a legitimate reason to look
for DSS offices that are more willing to provide braille books.  I'm
not saying the DSS office makes or breaks your college experience;
but, I've found, it makes a huge difference.  Or, at the very least,
maybe you could advocate for a more helpful counselor?
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/11/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as text.
> I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>
> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will
> give me a doc file.
> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive to
> read on my braillenote  in class.
> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not invested
> the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could fight with
> the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format such as rtf or
> doc files.
> But they don't.
>
> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate
> students.
> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I try
> and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take another
> class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, there is
> nothing you can do.
> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The
> only reason
> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she
> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>
> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I
> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find an
> instructor willing to work with me. I
> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I think
> all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos to be
> described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't required
> to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me they don't
> have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t auditorily.
>
> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think
> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and email
> her that.
>
> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
> professors it should remain between you and them period.
> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have
> this right.
> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am
> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes,
> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, I
> will do that.
>
> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
> written proof of it.
>
> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
> when you open the PDF go to
> "save as other"
> hit text
> Enter the name and location and there you go.
> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating,
> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi,
> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
> able to find the paragraph easier.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>
>> Brandon,
>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken
>> down by chapters or parts.
>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>
>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>
>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
>> dss office.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>> presented
>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>> quizzes.
>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>> than
>> the normal students.
>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
>> his
>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
>> do a search for words in my word document.
>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>> book.
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From coasterfreak88 at me.com  Sat Jan 12 06:34:00 2013
From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:34:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CB9CF32E-DC0F-441B-93EB-5AD7C659A8E6@me.com>

I have taken those quizes with VO flawlessly.


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 06:35:39 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:35:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccomodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <87741FFD-0736-45D0-A0C1-A0CA45C35CB6@gmail.com>

dear ashley,

I hope you read my entire e-mail as my experience comes from a 3rd world country, and believe me, things for us aren't easy.
It might sound pretty hard for you to assimilate this at the moment, but I believe your professor did absolutely nothing wrong, and my explanation to you is below:
you have e-mailed him to ask about his class, and you liked it. great, this is the wonderful first step.
If you notice, you said your professor had years of experience - have you thought  you might be his first blind student?
I am not saying he should have discouraged you from the class, but if you think through his eyes, he has done so because, in his point of view, he is attempting to help you.
He turned to the DSS because they are the ones who can explain to him about blindness. I am not saying you have no opinion, but have you considered how good it is he still tried to work with DSS?
In my country, friend, there is no darn DSS to be called to talk with. we have to deal with things on our own.
What i suggest is you go and talk to your DSS counselor, and suggest to her that you three sit and speak, so that you show him you can be proactive in your education even  in what they consider a hard situation as professors, that way you may take the class you would like and the professor learns something.
About books, every class requires page numbers and paragraphs. audio provides page numbers anyway, and about paragraphs, you will be able to participate in discussions though you can't refer to paragraphs, and this is something you will need to show them and yourself.

let me know if you would like to discuss this further and even off list.

sincerely,

mauricio
On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:19 PM, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were open to working with us.
> But they are not and some professors are visual in their teaching style.
> I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would not be solved; I use audio for reading.
> 
> 
> I need an elective and had signed up for survey of american literature.
> I had contacted this professor in December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major topics covered.
> This would help me decide if the class was a good one to take.
> 
> I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and
> he presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction.
> He stated the teaching method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop quizzes.
> So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I know I can take exams in the testing center.
> 
> That is why I asked about how you all took quizzes.
> Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it fit my schedule.
> 
> Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and to ask a few more questions such as if 
> you needed to bring a book to reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature we were discussing; 
> students had to bring their books to look at specific pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes after class orally.
> He discourages me from the class and suggests his format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online.
> I should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened.
> 
> Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there!
> I am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college.
> This occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10.
> My disability support service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later.
> She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get.
> Anyway, I emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we still needed to talk. I am looking for another class.
> I told her that after hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look for another class.
> 
> So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also has years of experience. 
> But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor.
> Well, I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this.
> So, I’m trying now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as well.
> If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or anything?
> Would you simply move on?
> 
> 
> Take care and thanks for reading.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From coasterfreak88 at me.com  Sat Jan 12 06:36:41 2013
From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:36:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CB9CF32E-DC0F-441B-93EB-5AD7C659A8E6@me.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<CB9CF32E-DC0F-441B-93EB-5AD7C659A8E6@me.com>
Message-ID: <ECF62B7A-F5DA-477D-83CE-8380CECDF779@me.com>

Oops? I tried to send a reply to the question about quizzes on Blackboard. Sorry everyone


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 07:13:31 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:13:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CABDhueucnSJ6BQa0+Qpy3A+=nKWDzBJVX14jRv80zQZEsj-PjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<CABDhueucnSJ6BQa0+Qpy3A+=nKWDzBJVX14jRv80zQZEsj-PjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <699287C6986D4383A6B8F175805475D8@OwnerPC>

right, maybe I need to switch counselors. I just disliked the 
counselor'sattitude.
She could have acted empathetic or say something like "regretabily, I cannot 
provide" but instead her line is
"we cannot provide your prefered format and a pc works fine in this case"
She has few people skills; since it’s a certificate program after my BA 
degree, I'll make the most of it. My goal in seeking more schooling was to 
practice and boost my writing skills for the business world.
I also wanted to take advantage of continuing education classes while I look 
for work in a down economy so I took electives like public relations and 
introductory business concepts. If I can work well with professors, things 
go smoothly; if I cannot, well, I do not have equal access to the curriculum 
and get whatever I can out of class.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:33 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Ashley,
  I don't think I'm exhagerating when I say that, if I were in a
college with a DSS office as terrible as you say yours is, I'd
strongly consider transferring the hell out of there as soon as I
could.  If you prefer braille, you have a legitimate reason to look
for DSS offices that are more willing to provide braille books.  I'm
not saying the DSS office makes or breaks your college experience;
but, I've found, it makes a huge difference.  Or, at the very least,
maybe you could advocate for a more helpful counselor?
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/11/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as 
> text.
> I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>
> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will
> give me a doc file.
> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive 
> to
> read on my braillenote  in class.
> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not 
> invested
> the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could fight with
> the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format such as rtf 
> or
> doc files.
> But they don't.
>
> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate
> students.
> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I 
> try
> and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take another
> class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, there is
> nothing you can do.
> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The
> only reason
> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she
> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>
> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I
> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find 
> an
> instructor willing to work with me. I
> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I 
> think
> all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos to be
> described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't 
> required
> to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me they don't
> have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t auditorily.
>
> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think
> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and 
> email
> her that.
>
> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
> professors it should remain between you and them period.
> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have
> this right.
> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am
> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes,
> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, 
> I
> will do that.
>
> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
> written proof of it.
>
> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
> when you open the PDF go to
> "save as other"
> hit text
> Enter the name and location and there you go.
> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be 
> accommodating,
> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi,
> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up 
> to
> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
> able to find the paragraph easier.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>
>> Brandon,
>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken
>> down by chapters or parts.
>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>
>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>
>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
>> dss office.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>> presented
>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>> quizzes.
>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>> than
>> the normal students.
>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
>> his
>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I 
>> just
>> do a search for words in my word document.
>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked 
>> to
>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>> book.
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 13:31:42 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:31:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccomodating professors
In-Reply-To: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <A2BCAA48-92C5-49C2-A278-EFDF8467171C@gmail.com>

hi Ashley
i tried to go through some programs where the people were much like that professer. they would go to my  RSA counsler. they would even go to my therapist. because these programs for the blind had no idea what to do with me. my point is that if they'd have talked to me, i think things would have gone better. like you, i always tell people that i am willing to talk about salutions, but they seem to have no interest. the ASL classes, and my dance class, i had to find on my own, because, most people think that because of my autism, i can't do anything, or that i am not worth anything. they have said this to me. whenever they would have conversations about me, they would have them without me. that is y i joined the autistics self  advocacy network. and we work with the NFB, and other groups. and, that is y my signiture at the bottom of my emails say, nothing about us, without us. because of the autistics self advocacy network. my other thing is that i would tell the dean. and see if there is something that can be done. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 11, 2013, at 23:19, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I’m here to vent about a situation. I wish all professors were open to working with us.
> But they are not and some professors are visual in their teaching style.
> I certainly am proactive and try and work out issues with professors ahead of time. But I do not have a book to refer to in english classes, so I cannot look at specific paragraphs. that one would not be solved; I use audio for reading.
> 
> 
> I need an elective and had signed up for survey of american literature.
> I had contacted this professor in December to find out about the class such as his teaching style and major topics covered.
> This would help me decide if the class was a good one to take.
> 
> I decided it was. The professor stated he used an anthology and
> he presented a mix of poetry, drama, and fiction.
> He stated the teaching method was discussions, a paper, midterm, final, video clips, and pop quizzes.
> So, I think at this point, discussions are fine; videos may be a challenge, but surely its just to reinforce the other information; and I know I can take exams in the testing center.
> 
> That is why I asked about how you all took quizzes.
> Well, I thought we were fine. He did say there were other sections of the class that may be more likely to run versus his which did not have many students enrolled. Still, I picked this class since it fit my schedule.
> 
> Well, after emailing the professor to say I’m coming and to ask a few more questions such as if 
> you needed to bring a book to reference pages as other english teachers have done in the past, he emailed me back. He answered my questions saying his videos showed the literature we were discussing; 
> students had to bring their books to look at specific pages and even paragraphs to discuss it, and he could not give pop quizzes after class orally.
> He discourages me from the class and suggests his format is not the best for me. He suggests I take the class online.
> I should point out after receiving this discouraging email, I offered to call him thursday morning to discuss his questions and see if we could work out something. I said email may lead to more misunderstandings and thought to myself, he may jump to conclusions, as I talk via email. so I said I’d call him which I did. He did not return my calls. I realized  a conversation would be best so hopefully no misunderstandings happened.
> 
> Well, to make matters worse, he goes to my disability counselor and talks to her about his concerns. What he said, I do not know! I was not there!
> I am upset he’d do this without involving me. This is college.
> This occurred on yesterday, Thursday, January 10.
> My disability support service, dss, counselor tried to call me. I was busy and heard her message later.
> She said that we needed to talk. She said there would be some challenges in the class and wanted to discuss what accomodations I could get.
> Anyway, I emailed her saying I was too busy today, but I’d call her monday if we still needed to talk. I am looking for another class.
> I told her that after hearing this professor’s reservations about it, and my own concerns about following videos and class discussions without a book to skim, I would look for another class.
> 
> So, I’ll never take english lit, at least with him. I was so hopeful originally since this professor has decent ratings. He also has years of experience. 
> But I won’t be in a class which does not benefit my learning style and work with a professor who violated my right to privacy by speaking to the dss counselor without me being there and without my knowledge. I had no idea he would do this. I was shocked when the voice mail from the dss counselor said he talked to her about the class I was enrolled in and she wished to talk to me. I emailed him to work things out and wanted to talk to him. Obviously, instead of talking to me and seeing what I might offer as solutions, he turns to the dss counselor.
> Well, I’ll find a teacher who has a better attitude than this.
> So, I’m trying now to get over my hurt feelings and look for something I’ll enjoy as well.
> If this has happened to you, would you complain to the dean or anything?
> Would you simply move on?
> 
> 
> Take care and thanks for reading.
> 
> 
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 12 14:12:19 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:12:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS4266EE9C8A0C9AF07C0FEEBDC280@phx.gbl>

You can send the PDF files to the cloud to convert them to microsoft word or audio files, broken-down in chapters, or sections.  You can visit:
www.robobraille.org.
There are simple upload instructions for doing this.  Finally, you can open the files in a OCR program such as Kurswheil or Open-book, to save them as word files.
Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:36 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
> 
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the dss office.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
> 
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 12 14:16:03 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:16:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>

The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW as:
Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
> 
> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will give me a doc file.
> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive to read on my braillenote  in class.
> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format such as rtf or doc files.
> But they don't.
> 
> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate students.
> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, there is nothing you can do.
> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The only reason
> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
> 
> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find an instructor willing to work with me. I
> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t auditorily.
> 
> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and email her that.
> 
> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email professors it should remain between you and them period.
> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have this right.
> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, I will do that.
> 
> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have written proof of it.
> 
> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
> 
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
> 
> Hello,
> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
> when you open the PDF go to
> "save as other"
> hit text
> Enter the name and location and there you go.
> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating,
> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
> 
> Hi,
> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
> able to find the paragraph easier.
> Hth,
> Misty
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
> 
> 
>> Brandon,
>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken down by chapters or parts.
>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>> 
>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>> 
>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the dss office.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both presented
>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale than
>> the normal students.
>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of his
>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
>> do a search for words in my word document.
>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>> book.
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com

From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Sat Jan 12 15:31:11 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:31:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
Message-ID: <DCA1F6E8-6AA2-4CCE-98C6-7C1F6B5E0FBA@aol.com>

To tackle the visual learning question. I can not say it is the best answer however it is the one that I keep getting. A large majority of people are visual learners a and at least one lobe of the brain being the occipital lobe is responsible for visual processing. 
My answer 
I believe in a  sensory  approach that includes visual, auditory, and  kinesthetic approaches. I believe in using the students strongest modality to teach him or her new concepts. 
I am someone who believes in progressivist teaching because I think each student has their own unique style. 
So going back I am someone who loves diverse learning styles however, unfortunately we do not live in utopia. 
I can just tell you as a future teacher I will be a teacher who will teach to several learning styles. 

Bridget  

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Question: why do we so heavily rely on the visual learning for all when the blind can't learn this wagy?  I learned Spanish through audible cues, not through pictures of stuff.  And I think it's all graphics, the buttons you mention.
> Beth
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:57:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
> 
> Hi,
> Yes, this is the main problem. Some of the flash content is not accessible
> and the buttons are unlabeled, and also a lot of the practice and
> assignments require you to match the vocabulary word or audio pronunciation
> to the picture of it. Another issue with assignments is if there is a button
> for an audio, it does not appear at all on the page so is not read. I am not
> sure if it is something graphical or not.
> Mi
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I was supposed to use  My math Lab for homework one semester.
> Its also a pearson product I believe. It was also inaccessible. the
> problems were in flash content or pictures that were not readable.
> 
> I hope you can find a work around for this.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cody Bair
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My Spanish Lab
> 
> As far as I know all of the Pearson labs are inaccessable. In a class I
> took last semester that used one of these programs I had to complete all
> of my assignments with the assistance of a reader.
> 
> Cody
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Has anyone used My Spanish Lab for any of their Spanish courses? My
> instructor this semester is using it and counting it as 30 percent of our
> final grade, and it seems to be rather inaccessible. Has anyone had any
> experiences of how to get around the inaccessability? I am using Jaws 10
> on my XP computer and Jaws 12 on my Windows 7 computer, and Jaws will not
> read the Etext or any of the assignments. Are there any other screen
> readers that work better with the Pearson labs? If it is completely
> inaccessible using any kind of screen reader, what have you all done in
> the past to complete your assignments in this type of lab?
> Thank you,
> Misty
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40y
> ahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
> %40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> 07%40comcast.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 16:41:48 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:41:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
Message-ID: <50f1925f.638fec0a.1ea8.3f1b@mx.google.com>

Ashley,=20if=20you=20have=20a=20braillenote=20apex=20with=20Keysoft=209.1=20=
or=20
higher,=20it=20can=20read=20PDFs.=20So=20you=20can=20save=20the=20PDF=20to=
=20a=20flash=20
drive=20and=20read=20it=20on=20your=20braillenote!

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Sat,=2012=20Jan=202013=2001:20:20=20-0500
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20unaccommodating=20professors

well,=20I've=20tried=20that=20in=20other=20classes.=20I'm=20not=20dumb.
The=20computer=20either=20froze=20or=20the=20pdf=20would=20not=20allow=20me=
=20to=20save=20
it=20as=20text.
I=20think=20the=20publisher=20protected=20it=20somehow=20so=20you=20cannot=
=20change=20
it.

Also,=20as=20I've=20said=20before,=20the=20disability=20office=20has=20not=
=20and=20
never=20=20will
give=20me=20a=20doc=20file.
Of=20course=20I=20asked=20for=20this.=20I=20wanted=20to=20put=20the=20doc=20=
file=20on=20a=20
flash=20drive=20to
read=20on=20my=20braillenote=20=20in=20class.
They=20always=20tell=20me=20the=20publisher=20only=20can=20send=20pdfs;=20t=
hey=20have=20
not=20invested
the=20time=20to=20attempt=20to=20convert=20it=20themselves.=20Also,=20they=
=20could=20
fight=20with
the=20publisher=20if=20they=20wanted=20to=20for=20a=20more=20accessible=20f=
ormat=20such=20
as=20rtf=20or
doc=20files.
But=20they=20don't.

This=20community=20college=20does=20not=20go=20out=20of=20its=20way=20to=20=
help=20and=20
accommodate
students.
I=20often=20work=20out=20issues=20myself=20with=20professors=20and=20order=
=20my=20own=20
books.=20I=20try
and=20leave=20dss=20out=20of=20it.=20but=20when=20the=20professor=20wants=20=
you=20to=20take=20
another
class=20and=20goes=20to=20your=20dss=20counselor=20without=20your=20=20know=
ledge,=20
there=20is
nothing=20you=20can=20do.
If=20he=20were=20going=20to=20work=20with=20me=20he=20would=20not=20have=20=
stepped=20behind=20
me.=20The
only=20reason
I=20know=20he=20went=20to=20dss=20was=20since=20the=20dss=20counselor=20cal=
led=20me=20and=20
stated=20she
spoke=20to=20him=20and=20wanted=20to=20discuss=20with=20me.

I=20don't=20know=20what=20so=20called=20accomodations=20she=20was=20going=20=
to=20
discuss=20and=20I
never=20will=20know.=20We=20are=20not!=20discussing=20this=20bad=20situatio=
n.=20I=20
should=20find=20an
instructor=20willing=20to=20work=20with=20me.=20I
have=20never=20found=20this=20counselor=20helpful=20and=20I'm=20not=20talki=
ng=20to=20
her.=20I=20think
all=20she'll=20say=20is=20the=20challenges=20involved=20and=20when=20I=20as=
k=20for=20
videos=20to=20be
described=20by=20the=20professor=20or=20someone,=20she'll=20say=20the=20col=
lege=20
isn't=20required
to=20do=20it.=20I've=20asked=20for=20a=20braille=20test=20before,=20and=20s=
he=20told=20me=20
they=20don't
have=20to=20provide=20my=20prefered=20format;=20I=20had=20to=20take=20i=20t=
=20auditorily.

Given=20her=20relunctance=20to=20do=20much=20but=20the=20bare=20minimum=20o=
f=20things,=20
I=20think
discussing=20it=20is=20fruitless=20and=20I'll=20simply=20look=20for=20other=
=20options=20
and=20email
her=20that.

It=E2=80=99s=20a=20bad=20situation.=20Its=20shaken=20my=20trust=20somewhat.=
=20When=20you=20
email
professors=20it=20should=20remain=20between=20you=20and=20them=20period.
I=20expect=20to=20keep=20conversations=20between=20us=20since=20=20all=20ot=
her=20
students=20have
this=20right.
No=20third=20party=20should=20be=20involved=20without=20your=20consent=20or=
=20
knowledge.=20I=20am
tempted=20to=20place=20in=20subsequent=20corespondence=20when=20I=20inquire=
=20about=20
classes,
that=20this=20communication=20is=20confidential.=20Heck,=20if=20anyone=20do=
es=20
this=20again,=20I
will=20do=20that.

Then,=20if=20they=20violate=20my=20right=20to=20privacy=20and=20confidentia=
lity,=20I=20
have
written=20proof=20of=20it.

Anyway,=20I'll=20see=20what=20happens=20next=20week=20when=20I=20go=20to=20=
class.

Ashley
-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs
Sent:=20Saturday,=20January=2012,=202013=201:01=20AM
To:=20Misty=20Dawn=20Bradley=20;=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20St=
udents=20
mailing=20list
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20unaccommodating=20professors

Hello,
There=20is=20a=20pretty=20simple=20way=20of=20converting=20PDF=20to=20TXT:
when=20you=20open=20the=20PDF=20go=20to
"save=20as=20other"
hit=20text
Enter=20the=20name=20and=20location=20and=20there=20you=20go.
Also,=20ask=20the=20disability=20center=20for=20a=20.doc=20and=20they=20sho=
uld=20be=20
accommodating,
I've=20never=20heard=20of=20one=20that=20wasn't=20for=20that.
There=20are=20a=20million=20other=20ways=20to=20get=20a=20PDF=20to=20TXT,=20=
but=20that=20is=20
first.
Thanks,

Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs
-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20Misty=20Dawn=20Bradley
Sent:=20Friday,=20January=2011,=202013=209:45=20PM
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20unaccommodating=20professors

Hi,
If=20you=20are=20able=20to=20get=20the=20book=20from=20Learning=20Ally,=20t=
he=20books=20are=20
set=20up=20to
where=20you=20can=20set=20them=20to=20go=20page=20by=20page,=20by=20chapter=
,=20by=20
heading,=20or=20by
sentence,=20so=20this=20may=20help=20with=20at=20least=20finding=20the=20pa=
ge=20number,=20
and=20then
if=20you=20go=20by=20sentence=20or=20if=20there=20is=20a=20paragraph=20sett=
ing=20then=20you=20
may=20be
able=20to=20find=20the=20paragraph=20easier.
Hth,
Misty

-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent:=20Saturday,=20January=2012,=202013=2012:34=20AM
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20unaccommodating=20professors


=20Brandon,
=20Yes=20professors=20are=20set=20inttheir=20ways.=20This=20is=20one=20of=20=
them.=20
Students=20in
=20that=20class=20have=20to=20for=20instance,=20see=20paragraph=202=20on=20=
page=2014.
=20I=20usually=20use=20audio=20formats=20so=20cannot=20use=20text=20to=20se=
arch.
=20I=20have=20tried=20to=20get=20the=20electronic=20copy,=20but=20as=20I=20=
said=20before,=20
they=20give
=20me=20pdfs=20which=20jaws=20has=20trouble=20reading.
=20Even=20if=20jaws=20reads=20it,=20I=20don't=20have=20page=20numbers=20sin=
ce=20the=20book=20
is=20broken
=20down=20by=20chapters=20or=20parts.
=20Each=20part=20or=20chapter=20is=20a=20large=20file.
=20So=20its=20impossible=20to=20look=20at=20a=20book=20as=20others=20do.

=20I'm=20glad=20it=20worked=20for=20you,=20but=20I=20know=20with=20videos=20=
coupled=20with=20
the
=20reliance=20of=20books,=20it=20is=20a=20tough=20teaching=20style=20to=20f=
ollow.

=20I=20just=20hate=20when=20professors=20are=20not=20willing=20to=20talk=20=
to=20you=20and=20
go=20to=20the
=20dss=20office.

=20Ashley

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20January=2012,=202013=2012:17=20AM
=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20unaccommodating=20professors

=20Hello,
=20I=20had=20a=20superstar=20professor=20who=20did=20this.=20He=20was=20an=
=20older=20guy=20
and=20he=20was
=20very=20set=20in=20his=20ways.=20He=20had=20about=202000=20students=20on=
=20his=20Corse=20
load=20and=20he
=20was=20also=20an=20international=20star.=20He=20said=20I=20would=20probab=
ly=20fail=20
his=20class
=20because=20he=20used=20lots=20of=20pictures=20and=20he=20wrote=20lots=20o=
n=20the=20board.=20
He=20also
=20said=20that=20I=20would=20not=20benefit=20from=20the=20top=20notch=20pic=
tures=20he=20
both
=20presented
=20in=20front=20of=20the=20class=20and=20had=20in=20the=20textbook=20he=20w=
rote.=20He=20told=20
my
=20Disability=20counselor=20he=20was=20not=20sure=20how=20I=20would=20deal=
=20with=20the=20
pop
=20quizzes.
=20On=20top=20of=20that,=20I=20was=20an=20honors=20student=20who=20had=20a=
=20steeper=20
grading=20scale
=20than
=20the=20normal=20students.
=20I=20told=20him=20not=20to=20worry,=20if=20he=20was=20willing=20to=20list=
en=20to=20me,=20we=20
could=20work
=20something=20out.=20I=20took=20the=20head=20of=20the=20Accessibility=20de=
partment=20
to=20one=20of
=20his
=20office=20hours=20and=20we=20hammered=20him=20with=20every=20problem=20a=
=20week=20after=20
class
=20started=20and=20we=20gave=20solutions.=20We=20also=20presented=20alterna=
tives=20
for=20him=20to
=20choose=20from.=20He=20then=20gave=20us=20his=20opinions=20and=20what=20h=
e=20was=20
willing=20to=20do.
=20I=20talked=20to=20the=20professor=20every=20week=20and=20just=20made=20s=
ure=20things=20
were=20going
=20well=20on=20his=20part.=20I=20ended=20up=20getting=20an=20easy=20A=20in=
=20that=20class=20and=20
that=20was
=20one=20of=20my=20favorite=20classes=20I=20have=20ever=20taken.
=20May=20I=20ask=20why=20you=20can't=20read=20paragraphs=20other=20students=
=20are=20
reading?=20I=20just
=20do=20a=20search=20for=20words=20in=20my=20word=20document.
=20Teacher=20tells=20us=20to=20look=20at=20page=2045,=20paragraph=207=20tha=
t=20starts=20"He=20
looked=20to
=20where=20her=20boots=20lay=20in=20the=20mud..."
=20I=20search=20for=20that=20and=20it=20only=20takes=20a=20second=20to=20se=
arch=20through=20
the=20whole
=20book.
=20Thanks,
=20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley
%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 17:34:14 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:34:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in the 
free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the Save 
As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you save 
the file as a text file.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional 
> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe 
> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW 
> as:
> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the 
> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as 
>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>>
>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will 
>> give me a doc file.
>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive 
>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not 
>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could 
>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format 
>> such as rtf or doc files.
>> But they don't.
>>
>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate 
>> students.
>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I 
>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take 
>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, 
>> there is nothing you can do.
>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The 
>> only reason
>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated 
>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>
>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I 
>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find 
>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I 
>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos 
>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't 
>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me 
>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t 
>> auditorily.
>>
>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think 
>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and 
>> email her that.
>>
>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email 
>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have 
>> this right.
>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am 
>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about 
>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does 
>> this again, I will do that.
>>
>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have 
>> written proof of it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>> when you open the PDF go to
>> "save as other"
>> hit text
>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be 
>> accommodating,
>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hi,
>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up 
>> to
>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and 
>> then
>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" 
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>>
>>> Brandon,
>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is 
>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>
>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>
>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
>>> dss office.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and 
>>> he
>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
>>> presented
>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
>>> quizzes.
>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
>>> than
>>> the normal students.
>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could 
>>> work
>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
>>> his
>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were 
>>> going
>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that 
>>> was
>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I 
>>> just
>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked 
>>> to
>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>>> book.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
> 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 18:57:44 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:57:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley and all,
I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
interesting and informative.
Best,
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in the
> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the Save
> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you save
> the file as a text file.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>
>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional
>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe
>>
>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW
>> as:
>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the
>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>>>
>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will
>>> give me a doc file.
>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive
>>>
>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>> But they don't.
>>>
>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate
>>>
>>> students.
>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I
>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The
>>>
>>> only reason
>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated
>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>
>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I
>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find
>>>
>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos
>>>
>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't
>>>
>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me
>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>> auditorily.
>>>
>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think
>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>> email her that.
>>>
>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have
>>> this right.
>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am
>>>
>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>
>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>> written proof of it.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>> "save as other"
>>> hit text
>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>> accommodating,
>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up
>>> to
>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>> then
>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brandon,
>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
>>>>
>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>
>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
>>>>
>>>> dss office.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and
>>>> he
>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>> presented
>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>> quizzes.
>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>>>> than
>>>> the normal students.
>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>> work
>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
>>>>
>>>> his
>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>> going
>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that
>>>> was
>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>> just
>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked
>>>> to
>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>>>> book.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 19:39:49 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:39:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] adobe conversion unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A5DCC5130DA04F24BFBC07F48AD51A8F@OwnerPC>

Hi William!
Thank you! Now I understand my problem.
I was unable to convert the pdf file, not because I did something wrong, but 
because I have the free adobe program rather than the professional program.

Yes, most dss offices have such a program I'm sure.
However, mine is either  unaware of how to  do it or just refuses to convert 
files. I'm not sure which one; all I know is that when I requested another 
format, I was told no; that pdf was the only thing available.

William, can you explain more? This is good to know for the future when I 
may have adobe professional at work.

What file formats can adobe be saved as?
Wiill it handle scanned images? How much does it cost? What does it do and 
what is accessible? I know adobe has a lot to do with formatting and layout 
which would not be accessible.
Also, I assume adobe connect, the conferencing software, isn't accessible 
either.

Thanks.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: wmodnl wmodnl
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional or 
full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe 
reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW 
as:
Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the 
program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as 
> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>
> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will 
> give me a doc file.
> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive 
> to read on my braillenote  in class.
> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not 
> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could 
> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format 
> such as rtf or doc files.
> But they don't.
>
> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate 
> students.
> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I 
> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take 
> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, 
> there is nothing you can do.
> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The 
> only reason
> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she 
> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>
> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I 
> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find 
> an instructor willing to work with me. I
> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I 
> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos 
> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't 
> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me 
> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t 
> auditorily.
>
> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think 
> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and 
> email her that.
>
> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email 
> professors it should remain between you and them period.
> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have 
> this right.
> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am 
> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes, 
> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, 
> I will do that.
>
> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have 
> written proof of it.
>
> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
> when you open the PDF go to
> "save as other"
> hit text
> Enter the name and location and there you go.
> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be 
> accommodating,
> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi,
> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up 
> to
> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
> able to find the paragraph easier.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>
>> Brandon,
>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
>> down by chapters or parts.
>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>
>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>
>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
>> dss office.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
>> presented
>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
>> quizzes.
>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
>> than
>> the normal students.
>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
>> his
>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I 
>> just
>> do a search for words in my word document.
>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked 
>> to
>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>> book.
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 19:43:57 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:43:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] adobe conversion unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <A5DCC5130DA04F24BFBC07F48AD51A8F@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<A5DCC5130DA04F24BFBC07F48AD51A8F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAKrtpGVbkcxV13wUtSChPHvNphEyKXc-cc_z5XuUOduw@mail.gmail.com>

You can send the PDF as an email attachment to
convert at robobraille.org
and put "doc" in the subject line. You shoudl get an email back with
the document as a Word attachment. However I don't know if it works on
PDF's that have been locked or protected by the publisher.
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi William!
> Thank you! Now I understand my problem.
> I was unable to convert the pdf file, not because I did something wrong, but
> because I have the free adobe program rather than the professional program.
>
> Yes, most dss offices have such a program I'm sure.
> However, mine is either  unaware of how to  do it or just refuses to convert
> files. I'm not sure which one; all I know is that when I requested another
> format, I was told no; that pdf was the only thing available.
>
> William, can you explain more? This is good to know for the future when I
> may have adobe professional at work.
>
> What file formats can adobe be saved as?
> Wiill it handle scanned images? How much does it cost? What does it do and
> what is accessible? I know adobe has a lot to do with formatting and layout
> which would not be accessible.
> Also, I assume adobe connect, the conferencing software, isn't accessible
> either.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wmodnl wmodnl
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional or
> full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe
> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW
> as:
> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the
> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>>
>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will
>> give me a doc file.
>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive
>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>> such as rtf or doc files.
>> But they don't.
>>
>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate
>> students.
>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I
>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>> there is nothing you can do.
>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The
>> only reason
>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she
>>
>> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>
>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I
>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find
>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos
>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't
>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me
>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>> auditorily.
>>
>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think
>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>> email her that.
>>
>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have
>> this right.
>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am
>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes,
>>
>> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again,
>> I will do that.
>>
>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>> written proof of it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>> when you open the PDF go to
>> "save as other"
>> hit text
>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>> accommodating,
>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hi,
>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up
>> to
>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>>
>>> Brandon,
>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken
>>>
>>> down by chapters or parts.
>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>
>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>
>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
>>> dss office.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>> presented
>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>> quizzes.
>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>>> than
>>> the normal students.
>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
>>> his
>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>> just
>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked
>>> to
>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>>> book.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 19:57:22 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:57:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's
Message-ID: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>

Does anyone know of any captcha solving tools? RJ

From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 19:59:46 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:59:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's
In-Reply-To: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <D776527E-7FF5-4658-9627-B060C537144A@gmail.com>

for the mac, visit http://skipinput.com
for windows, visit 
http://webvisum.com

mauricio
On Jan 12, 2013, at 2:57 PM, "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any captcha solving tools? RJ
> _______________________________________________
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From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Jan 12 20:48:35 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:48:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] adobe conversion unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <A5DCC5130DA04F24BFBC07F48AD51A8F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <auto-000011320816@mailback4.g2host.com>

Ashley,

We are having more and mor of a problem claiming that scanned PDF images are not accessible because there are ways to convert them.  If you have 
either K-1000 or Open book, you should be able to convert them.  There is even some OCR capability in certain versions of Microsoft Office that can be 
used as I understand it, but that feature is not in all versions.  Of course, any time that optical character recognition has to be used, it will not be as 
accurage as getting a document that can be read directly in PDF.  I understand that the latest versions of JFW can do some conversion as well.  While all 
of this is good, it makes it more difficult for us to claim that we cannot read scanned PDF files.  Regular PDF files should generally be accessible with 
Adobe Acrobat, and there is the ability to save PDF files with Acrobat to a text file.  There are certainly cases where formatting is messed up, though, I'm 
not claiming it is perfect, but the waters are now very muddy as to what is truly not accessible.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:39:49 -0500, Ashley Bramlett wrote:

>Hi William!
>Thank you! Now I understand my problem.
>I was unable to convert the pdf file, not because I did something wrong, but 
>because I have the free adobe program rather than the professional program.

>Yes, most dss offices have such a program I'm sure.
>However, mine is either  unaware of how to  do it or just refuses to convert 
>files. I'm not sure which one; all I know is that when I requested another 
>format, I was told no; that pdf was the only thing available.

>William, can you explain more? This is good to know for the future when I 
>may have adobe professional at work.

>What file formats can adobe be saved as?
>Wiill it handle scanned images? How much does it cost? What does it do and 
>what is accessible? I know adobe has a lot to do with formatting and layout 
>which would not be accessible.
>Also, I assume adobe connect, the conferencing software, isn't accessible 
>either.

>Thanks.

>Ashley

>-----Original Message----- 
>From: wmodnl wmodnl
>Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

>The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional or 
>full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe 
>reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW 
>as:
>Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the 
>program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.


>Sent from my iPad

>On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
>wrote:

>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as 
>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change it.
>>
>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will 
>> give me a doc file.
>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash drive 
>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not 
>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could 
>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format 
>> such as rtf or doc files.
>> But they don't.
>>
>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and accommodate 
>> students.
>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I 
>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take 
>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge, 
>> there is nothing you can do.
>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. The 
>> only reason
>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated she 
>> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>
>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I 
>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should find 
>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I 
>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos 
>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college isn't 
>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me 
>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t 
>> auditorily.
>>
>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think 
>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and 
>> email her that.
>>
>> ItG��s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email 
>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have 
>> this right.
>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I am 
>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about classes, 
>> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this again, 
>> I will do that.
>>
>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have 
>> written proof of it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hello,
>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>> when you open the PDF go to
>> "save as other"
>> hit text
>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be 
>> accommodating,
>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>> Hi,
>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up 
>> to
>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" 
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>>
>>> Brandon,
>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
>>> down by chapters or parts.
>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>
>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>
>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
>>> dss office.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
>>> presented
>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
>>> quizzes.
>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
>>> than
>>> the normal students.
>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
>>> his
>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I 
>>> just
>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked 
>>> to
>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
>>> book.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>_______________________________________________
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
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>_______________________________________________
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Jan 12 21:02:28 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:02:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
In-Reply-To: <B2CDB5B83F524A27A5AC28E720A8D9D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <auto-000010194784@mailback3.g2host.com>

Here is another of my "muddy waters" notes.  It is hard to say flat out that Microsoft Access 2007 is not accessible.  There are several problems.  First, 
Microsoft Access is a very complicated program for everybody.  There is quite a learning curve.  Some things in Access are not obvious.  For example, 
pressing F11 turns on and off the "Shutter Bar" that makes it possible to do more navigation within a database.  It is also very possible that it won't work at 
all well unless you have a recent version of JFW.  I am a Window-Eyes user so I don't know how critical the version is.  However, I am able to add and 
edit records in a table with Window-Eyes using Access 2007.  Having said that, I cannot tell you that I can do everything because I don't use every part 
of Microsoft Access, nor am I saying that Window-Eyes is a perfect solution, either.

In addition, if you use Microsoft Access with earlier versions of an Access database, later versions of access will sometimes restrict what you can do with 
older databases unless you turn off certain security features.  This can cause some things that work in 2003 to not work in 2007.  If you are mostly using 
your own databases and tables, turning off security settings isn't risky.  

It is very hard to know to whom to complain to when some of the fault is with Microsoft and some of the fault is with screen reader support.  Screen 
readers tend to not support Access as much as they might because it is complicated and takes a good bit of work and it is one of the less used pieces of 
software so they don't increase sales all that much as a result of their efforts.

If you want to design something simple for yourself, don't overlook just putting data into an Excel spreadsheet.  Spreadsheets don't have to all contain 
numbers.  If you have to use Access, though, maybe something above might work.  It's worth trying with NVDA, too, as sometimes NVDA is better with 
newer versions of Microsoft products.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:44:27 -0500, Ashley Bramlett wrote:

>unfortunately access and jaws are not accessible; why doesn't nfb complain 
>to microsoft about it?
>Since 2007 version they changed the layout so we cannot use it; you have to 
>use access 2003 for it to be accessible.

>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws

>Hi everyone,
>   I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my 
>school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I 
>have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
>Sent from HP Laptop
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 21:51:56 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:51:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
In-Reply-To: <auto-000010194784@mailback3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000010194784@mailback3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <6B6CD037-D8B2-4AE1-BF5F-3D3A5BB2687D@gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice, Steve!

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 12, 2013, at 2:02 PM, "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:

> Here is another of my "muddy waters" notes.  It is hard to say flat out that Microsoft Access 2007 is not accessible.  There are several problems.  First, 
> Microsoft Access is a very complicated program for everybody.  There is quite a learning curve.  Some things in Access are not obvious.  For example, 
> pressing F11 turns on and off the "Shutter Bar" that makes it possible to do more navigation within a database.  It is also very possible that it won't work at 
> all well unless you have a recent version of JFW.  I am a Window-Eyes user so I don't know how critical the version is.  However, I am able to add and 
> edit records in a table with Window-Eyes using Access 2007.  Having said that, I cannot tell you that I can do everything because I don't use every part 
> of Microsoft Access, nor am I saying that Window-Eyes is a perfect solution, either.
> 
> In addition, if you use Microsoft Access with earlier versions of an Access database, later versions of access will sometimes restrict what you can do with 
> older databases unless you turn off certain security features.  This can cause some things that work in 2003 to not work in 2007.  If you are mostly using 
> your own databases and tables, turning off security settings isn't risky.  
> 
> It is very hard to know to whom to complain to when some of the fault is with Microsoft and some of the fault is with screen reader support.  Screen 
> readers tend to not support Access as much as they might because it is complicated and takes a good bit of work and it is one of the less used pieces of 
> software so they don't increase sales all that much as a result of their efforts.
> 
> If you want to design something simple for yourself, don't overlook just putting data into an Excel spreadsheet.  Spreadsheets don't have to all contain 
> numbers.  If you have to use Access, though, maybe something above might work.  It's worth trying with NVDA, too, as sometimes NVDA is better with 
> newer versions of Microsoft products.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:44:27 -0500, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> 
>> unfortunately access and jaws are not accessible; why doesn't nfb complain 
>> to microsoft about it?
>> Since 2007 version they changed the layout so we cannot use it; you have to 
>> use access 2003 for it to be accessible.
> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft access 2007 and jaws
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>>  I am running Windows XP, Jaws 12 latest, and microsoft access on my 
>> school laptop. How does one go about manipulating data with that setup? I 
>> have been able to find some data but have not been able to edit it.
>> Sent from HP Laptop
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 22:00:49 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:00:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Political Podcast: The Search for One Crazy Blind Liberal
Message-ID: <02b701cdf110$48f292c0$dad7b840$@gmail.com>

Are you a blind, intelligent male liberal entrepreneur with well-developed
societal views? If Obama makes your heart sing and Sean Hannity gives you
heartburn; if you are anti-guns and pro taxes; if you love big government
and hate prayer before high school football, then you are nothing like me,
and for the purposes of this talent search, you're exactly who I want.

 

Read more here:

http://joeorozco.com/blog_where_oh_where_is_my_liberal_counterpart

 

Thanks,

 

Joe


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 00:09:27 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:09:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
though.

Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
very good about reading the text and describing important details on
screen.

If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
Studying with others is extremely beneficial.

On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley and all,
> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
> interesting and informative.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in the
>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>> Save
>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you
>> save
>> the file as a text file.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>>
>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional
>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>> Adobe
>>>
>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>> JFW
>>> as:
>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>> the
>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>> will
>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>> drive
>>>>
>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>> But they don't.
>>>>
>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>> accommodate
>>>>
>>>> students.
>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>> I
>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>> The
>>>>
>>>> only reason
>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated
>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and
>>>> I
>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>> find
>>>>
>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>> videos
>>>>
>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>> isn't
>>>>
>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told
>>>> me
>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>> auditorily.
>>>>
>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>> think
>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>>> email her that.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>> have
>>>> this right.
>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I
>>>> am
>>>>
>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>
>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>>> list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>> "save as other"
>>>> hit text
>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>> accommodating,
>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set
>>>> up
>>>> to
>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or
>>>> by
>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>>> then
>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may
>>>> be
>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>> Hth,
>>>> Misty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>> give
>>>>>
>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he
>>>>> was
>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and
>>>>> he
>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>> class
>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>> also
>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>> presented
>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>> scale
>>>>> than
>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>>> work
>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> his
>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him
>>>>> to
>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to
>>>>> do.
>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>> going
>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that
>>>>> was
>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>>> just
>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>> looked
>>>>> to
>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>> whole
>>>>> book.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 00:43:30 2013
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:43:30 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>

Kaiti wrote,
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way.

I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if he was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some as the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students and the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.

The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take place without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who the grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states: "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached by a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper authority, the student.

I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away, but what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and inappropriate.

Regards,

Marc
On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
> 
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
> though.
> 
> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
> screen.
> 
> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
> 
> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley and all,
>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>> interesting and informative.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in the
>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>>> Save
>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you
>>> save
>>> the file as a text file.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional
>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>> Adobe
>>>> 
>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>> JFW
>>>> as:
>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>>> the
>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
>>>>> it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>> will
>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>> drive
>>>>> 
>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>> accommodate
>>>>> 
>>>>> students.
>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>>> I
>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>>> The
>>>>> 
>>>>> only reason
>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated
>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and
>>>>> I
>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>>> find
>>>>> 
>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>> videos
>>>>> 
>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> 
>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told
>>>>> me
>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>> think
>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>>>> email her that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>> have
>>>>> this right.
>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I
>>>>> am
>>>>> 
>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>> hit text
>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set
>>>>> up
>>>>> to
>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or
>>>>> by
>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>>>> then
>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>> presented
>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>> scale
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to
>>>>>> do.
>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> book.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 01:32:39 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:32:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
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Message-ID: <CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com>

Marc,

I did mention that it wasn't right for him to ignore her, and do see
the counselor as more at fault than the professor.  We can't really
say if it was infantilizing or not because it isn't necessarily the
professor's job to know exactly how to do things for us in the
appropriate way, and some profs do view the office as not the
custodian of disabled students, but a resource for advice.  The
professor should be able to use the resources including the ds office
that are available to him, but it is then up to the ds office to
either offer helpful advice and to inform the prof that it's really
not that different from working with a sighted student, or totally
feed into the professor's negative mindset or intimidation by not
saying, "Here, why don't we let the student tell you herself?"  My
office urges professors to contact them with any questions that
concern accomodations they have granted the student, because they,
after all, are the deciding factor in what assistance we can and
cannot receive.  I do see the prof not returning Ashley's call as rude
and agree with you there, but this is no different from a good 80 to
90 percent of people we come into contact with who are scared of the
idea of working with blind people simply because they don't know.  It
sounds like Ashley has had problems with her ds office before though,
(Not providing textbooks in a reasonable format like word or text
sounds ridiculous to me, and they really have no excuse for not trying
to meet her halfway since they're supposed to be there to help her),
and I agree the counselor should have tried to bring her into the
conversation in a more professional way, or at least directed the prof
back to Ashley herself with his questions.  If there was any
infantilizing treatment, I'd guess it was more on the counselor's part
than the prof's because the counselor really should have known better.
 I'm not saying he is totally not to blame, but I was just saying that
this is nothing new and instead of treating it by blaming him for
approaching the situation this way when he might have felt really
intimidated because of ignorance the focus should be on changing his
expectations and outlook on working with a blind student.

Maybe I'm in a different situation though.  The one time I know of
that a professor talked with my ds office without me was when they
were working to braille my stats book way in advance.  A few weeks ago
he asked them what they felt would be appropriate ways to handle using
work sheets so that he could give me accessible options to choose
from.  I was initially told this by my counselor, but he emailed me
the next afternoon and gave me the same options so I felt like he was
trying to make sure the choices he gave me would work no matter which
one I chose, not trying to decide something for me behind my back.  On
the other hand, I had a prof last semester who was horrible and who
never contacted the DS office about anything, not even my materials to
make sure they were okay or anything.  He was really ignorant and even
made some rude remarks in class about my blindness, and although I
tried to educate him by example in class he wouldn't budge the whole
semester.  Even during finals week he wouldn't fill out the form for
sending his exam to them and I had to get the office to personally
contact him in order for them to get his exam in time.  This is why I
approve of professors contacting the disabilities office because odds
are that if they're taking the time to do so it's because they want
advice or want to know what they can do in their teaching to be
helpful to us as students.  But like I said, it's up to the
disabilities office to either make that professor feel more aware of
the capabilities of blind students and prepared to teach them as well
as their sighted pupils, or not educate or positively advise at all.
Sounds to me like that was what really happened here.

On 1/12/13, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kaiti wrote,
>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>> tidbit to you in a better way.
>
> I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
> person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
> consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
> found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
> ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
> some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if he
> was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt
> it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some as
> the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students and
> the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
>
> The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take place
> without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
> issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
> councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
> participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
> active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who the
> grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
> "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should
> approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached by
> a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
> authority, the student.
>
> I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away, but
> what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
> inappropriate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marc
> On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley,
>>
>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
>> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
>> though.
>>
>> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
>> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
>> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
>> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
>> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
>> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
>> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
>> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
>> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
>> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
>> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
>> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
>> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
>> screen.
>>
>> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
>> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
>> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
>> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
>> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
>> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
>> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
>> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>>> interesting and informative.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in
>>>> the
>>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>>>> Save
>>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you
>>>> save
>>>> the file as a text file.
>>>> Hth,
>>>> Misty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>>> professional
>>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>
>>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>>> JFW
>>>>> as:
>>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>>>> the
>>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible
>>>>>> format
>>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> students.
>>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
>>>>>> books.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>
>>>>>> only reason
>>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>>> stated
>>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>>>> find
>>>>>>
>>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>>> videos
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> this right.
>>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>>> hit text
>>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
>>>>>> first.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for
>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading?
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>> book.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Kaiti


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 02:00:00 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 21:00:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] adobe conversion unaccommodating professors
References: <auto-000011320816@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <5BD7441F2E254D2C9B3365C167021E51@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
I have ReadIris Pro 12, and it also converts pdf image files to doc, docx, 
or whatever format you specify using OCR. Also, many all-in-one 
printers/scanners/copiers now come with limited OCR software. I got an 
all-in-one HP printer that came with software like this.
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adobe conversion unaccommodating professors


> Ashley,
>
> We are having more and mor of a problem claiming that scanned PDF images 
> are not accessible because there are ways to convert them.  If you have
> either K-1000 or Open book, you should be able to convert them.  There is 
> even some OCR capability in certain versions of Microsoft Office that can 
> be
> used as I understand it, but that feature is not in all versions.  Of 
> course, any time that optical character recognition has to be used, it 
> will not be as
> accurage as getting a document that can be read directly in PDF.  I 
> understand that the latest versions of JFW can do some conversion as well. 
> While all
> of this is good, it makes it more difficult for us to claim that we cannot 
> read scanned PDF files.  Regular PDF files should generally be accessible 
> with
> Adobe Acrobat, and there is the ability to save PDF files with Acrobat to 
> a text file.  There are certainly cases where formatting is messed up, 
> though, I'm
> not claiming it is perfect, but the waters are now very muddy as to what 
> is truly not accessible.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:39:49 -0500, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>
>>Hi William!
>>Thank you! Now I understand my problem.
>>I was unable to convert the pdf file, not because I did something wrong, 
>>but
>>because I have the free adobe program rather than the professional 
>>program.
>
>>Yes, most dss offices have such a program I'm sure.
>>However, mine is either  unaware of how to  do it or just refuses to 
>>convert
>>files. I'm not sure which one; all I know is that when I requested another
>>format, I was told no; that pdf was the only thing available.
>
>>William, can you explain more? This is good to know for the future when I
>>may have adobe professional at work.
>
>>What file formats can adobe be saved as?
>>Wiill it handle scanned images? How much does it cost? What does it do and
>>what is accessible? I know adobe has a lot to do with formatting and 
>>layout
>>which would not be accessible.
>>Also, I assume adobe connect, the conferencing software, isn't accessible
>>either.
>
>>Thanks.
>
>>Ashley
>
>>-----Original Message----- 
>>From: wmodnl wmodnl
>>Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
>>The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional 
>>or
>>full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional Adobe
>>reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy JFW
>>as:
>>Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have the
>>program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>
>
>>Sent from my iPad
>
>>On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>wrote:
>
>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change 
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never  will
>>> give me a doc file.
>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash 
>>> drive
>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>> But they don't.
>>>
>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and 
>>> accommodate
>>> students.
>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books. I
>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me. 
>>> The
>>> only reason
>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated 
>>> she
>>> spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>
>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and I
>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should 
>>> find
>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for 
>>> videos
>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college 
>>> isn't
>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me
>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>> auditorily.
>>>
>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I think
>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>> email her that.
>>>
>>> ItG?Ts a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students have
>>> this right.
>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I 
>>> am
>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about 
>>> classes,
>>> that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does this 
>>> again,
>>> I will do that.
>>>
>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>> written proof of it.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>> "save as other"
>>> hit text
>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>> accommodating,
>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up
>>> to
>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and 
>>> then
>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brandon,
>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they 
>>>> give
>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is 
>>>> broken
>>>> down by chapters or parts.
>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>
>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to 
>>>> the
>>>> dss office.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he 
>>>> was
>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and 
>>>> he
>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He 
>>>> also
>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>> presented
>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>> quizzes.
>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
>>>> than
>>>> the normal students.
>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could 
>>>> work
>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one 
>>>> of
>>>> his
>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him 
>>>> to
>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to 
>>>> do.
>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were 
>>>> going
>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that 
>>>> was
>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>> just
>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked
>>>> to
>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the 
>>>> whole
>>>> book.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 02:42:33 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:42:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCC50HZ_XDm_VgAKxfDDQ8ZfthpYmFkNeMPBNdcZFH38A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Marc, I completely agree with you, but unfortunately I suspect that
talking to professors about students without students is the norm
rather than the exception among DSS offices. I could be wrong, but say
that based on my own experience with my former university's office,
whose counselors would repeatedly have discussions with my professors
without making any effort to include me. I know of at least two
conversations and don't know how many others happened that I was not
told about. They also sent letters to all blind students' professors
at the beginning of each semester asking for detailed information
about all the materials used in that professor's class, instead of
trusting the blind student to get them that information. I found this
practice not only disrespectful by leaving out the student, but also
inefficient because sometimes professors would give them supplementary
info that I didn't really need converted because it was already
accessible or not critical to the class. If I had been involved in
those email conversations it would have reduced their workload
significantly. However, the worst was what happened to my friend, when
the DSS counselor urged him to drop a class and take it with a
different professor without giving him any explanation. When my friend
and I (and a few other NFB folks) confronted them about their
practices of engaging our professors in discussions without us, and I
asked why they had urged my friend to drop his class, the DSS
counselor said "I am not allowed to tell him why he needed to drop the
class, because of confidentiality". So apparently it is more important
to protect the privacy of a professor's comments about a blind student
than it is to disclose full information to a student that could affect
their academic choices?
I suspect the problem with overbearing DSS staff is about ADA
lawsuits. DSS people are motivated to make sure they don't get sued
for being under-accommodating, so they are motivated to maintain
control of accommodation-related conversations as much as possible. If
they get questions from professors and direct the professor to talk to
the student, as they should, they risk having the issue go unresolved
and ending up with a lawsuit. By staying in control of those
conversations the DSS staff are ensuring they come off as being as
accommodating as possible so they can't get blamed later on for
problems. Unfortunately this attitude undermines the autonomy and
rights of blind students.
What I will say is that there is a trade-off between resources and
autonomy when you do anything through a DSS office, and it's up to you
how you want to handle that trade-off. For instance, if you prefer
Braille for certain classes and the DSS provides Braille, then it
might be worth the hassle and loss of autonomy to go ahead and work
with them. However, if your DSS is incredibly custodial like my old
one was and/or if you would be fine with audio or E-text copies of
books from BookShare or the publisher, or if the DSS doesn't provide
much help to begin with, (i.e. no Braille) then you can forgo DSS
help. In my own case, after my run-in with DSS late in my junior year,
I stopped working with them and instead obtained my books from
Learning Ally or scanned them. No professor had any issue with my not
being involved with DSS anymore. However by that time I was done with
most of my science classes so Braille was less critical. If it had
happened earlier in my education I might have stuck it out with DSS.
In either case, just know that DSS is one of many options you have.
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Marc,
>
> I did mention that it wasn't right for him to ignore her, and do see
> the counselor as more at fault than the professor.  We can't really
> say if it was infantilizing or not because it isn't necessarily the
> professor's job to know exactly how to do things for us in the
> appropriate way, and some profs do view the office as not the
> custodian of disabled students, but a resource for advice.  The
> professor should be able to use the resources including the ds office
> that are available to him, but it is then up to the ds office to
> either offer helpful advice and to inform the prof that it's really
> not that different from working with a sighted student, or totally
> feed into the professor's negative mindset or intimidation by not
> saying, "Here, why don't we let the student tell you herself?"  My
> office urges professors to contact them with any questions that
> concern accomodations they have granted the student, because they,
> after all, are the deciding factor in what assistance we can and
> cannot receive.  I do see the prof not returning Ashley's call as rude
> and agree with you there, but this is no different from a good 80 to
> 90 percent of people we come into contact with who are scared of the
> idea of working with blind people simply because they don't know.  It
> sounds like Ashley has had problems with her ds office before though,
> (Not providing textbooks in a reasonable format like word or text
> sounds ridiculous to me, and they really have no excuse for not trying
> to meet her halfway since they're supposed to be there to help her),
> and I agree the counselor should have tried to bring her into the
> conversation in a more professional way, or at least directed the prof
> back to Ashley herself with his questions.  If there was any
> infantilizing treatment, I'd guess it was more on the counselor's part
> than the prof's because the counselor really should have known better.
>  I'm not saying he is totally not to blame, but I was just saying that
> this is nothing new and instead of treating it by blaming him for
> approaching the situation this way when he might have felt really
> intimidated because of ignorance the focus should be on changing his
> expectations and outlook on working with a blind student.
>
> Maybe I'm in a different situation though.  The one time I know of
> that a professor talked with my ds office without me was when they
> were working to braille my stats book way in advance.  A few weeks ago
> he asked them what they felt would be appropriate ways to handle using
> work sheets so that he could give me accessible options to choose
> from.  I was initially told this by my counselor, but he emailed me
> the next afternoon and gave me the same options so I felt like he was
> trying to make sure the choices he gave me would work no matter which
> one I chose, not trying to decide something for me behind my back.  On
> the other hand, I had a prof last semester who was horrible and who
> never contacted the DS office about anything, not even my materials to
> make sure they were okay or anything.  He was really ignorant and even
> made some rude remarks in class about my blindness, and although I
> tried to educate him by example in class he wouldn't budge the whole
> semester.  Even during finals week he wouldn't fill out the form for
> sending his exam to them and I had to get the office to personally
> contact him in order for them to get his exam in time.  This is why I
> approve of professors contacting the disabilities office because odds
> are that if they're taking the time to do so it's because they want
> advice or want to know what they can do in their teaching to be
> helpful to us as students.  But like I said, it's up to the
> disabilities office to either make that professor feel more aware of
> the capabilities of blind students and prepared to teach them as well
> as their sighted pupils, or not educate or positively advise at all.
> Sounds to me like that was what really happened here.
>
> On 1/12/13, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kaiti wrote,
>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>> tidbit to you in a better way.
>>
>> I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
>> person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
>> consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
>> found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
>> ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
>> some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if
>> he
>> was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously
>> doubt
>> it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some
>> as
>> the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students
>> and
>> the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
>>
>> The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take
>> place
>> without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
>> issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
>> councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
>> participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
>> active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who
>> the
>> grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
>> "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should
>> approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached
>> by
>> a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
>> authority, the student.
>>
>> I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away,
>> but
>> what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
>> inappropriate.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Marc
>> On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
>>> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
>>> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
>>> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
>>> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
>>> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
>>> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
>>> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
>>> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
>>> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
>>> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
>>> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
>>> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
>>> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
>>> screen.
>>>
>>> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
>>> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
>>> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
>>> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
>>> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
>>> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
>>> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
>>> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>>>
>>> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>>>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>>>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>>>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>>>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>>>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>>>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>>>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>>>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>>>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>>>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>>>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>>>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>>>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>>>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>>>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>>>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>>>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>>>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>>>> interesting and informative.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in
>>>>> the
>>>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>>>>> Save
>>>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets
>>>>> you
>>>>> save
>>>>> the file as a text file.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>>>> professional
>>>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>>>> JFW
>>>>>> as:
>>>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot
>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible
>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your
>>>>>>> knowledge,
>>>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> only reason
>>>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>>>> videos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> this right.
>>>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>>>> hit text
>>>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading,
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for
>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading?
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>> book.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 13 02:56:21 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 21:56:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC><BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl><2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <451EC708E8974A3D857A2F67D4B7BABC@OwnerPC>

Hello Marc,
Thanks. Exactly how I feel! What happened as I said was we coresponded for 
several messages. He expressed concerns and I asked him questions. I found 
out he showed videos in class and gave pop quizzes; these were concerns on 
both our ends.

Then he suggests I take a class online with a different professor. Then I 
wrote to him requesting we discuss his concerns  in a phone conversation.
That is when he did not return my calls. Instead, that very day, the dss 
counselor leaves me a message because Dr. S.
came to him and she in turn came to me. It was inappropriate for him to do 
this. He did not even tell me he'd do this!

I find it disrespectful since other students talk to their professors and 
have an understanding of privacy. Why can't we blind students have the same 
curtesy? I mean if a veteran came to class they would not go to the veterans 
office for questions. I loved your example of the international student.

Also, I feel when the accomodations come up, all my dss says anyway is the 
basics are covered like electronic handouts and extended time on exams. if I 
request something different they said they're not required to do that. 
Someone on list said they get tactile diagrams; I did not get that option.

Anyway, he did what he did and its history. I just hope it doesn't happen to 
other students.
It likely will though.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Kaiti wrote,
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way.

I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad 
person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and 
consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I 
found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof 
ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with 
some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if he 
was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt 
it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some as 
the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students and 
the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.

The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take place 
without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these 
issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the 
councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our 
participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an 
active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who the 
grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states: 
"nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should 
approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached by 
a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper 
authority, the student.

I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away, but 
what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and 
inappropriate.

Regards,

Marc
On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
>
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
> though.
>
> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
> screen.
>
> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>
> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley and all,
>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>> interesting and informative.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in 
>>> the
>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>>> Save
>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you
>>> save
>>> the file as a text file.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>>
>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the 
>>>> professional
>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>> Adobe
>>>>
>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>> JFW
>>>> as:
>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>>> the
>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>> will
>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>> drive
>>>>>
>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they 
>>>>> could
>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible 
>>>>> format
>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>
>>>>> students.
>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>>> I
>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>>> The
>>>>>
>>>>> only reason
>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated
>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and
>>>>> I
>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>>> find
>>>>>
>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>> videos
>>>>>
>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>> isn't
>>>>>
>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told
>>>>> me
>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>> think
>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>> have
>>>>> this right.
>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I
>>>>> am
>>>>>
>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students 
>>>>> mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>> hit text
>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set
>>>>> up
>>>>> to
>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or
>>>>> by
>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>>>> then
>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>>
>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>> presented
>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>> scale
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after 
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to
>>>>>> do.
>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> book.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> -- 
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 13 03:14:05 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:14:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCC50HZ_XDm_VgAKxfDDQ8ZfthpYmFkNeMPBNdcZFH38A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC><BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl><2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com><0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com><CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCC50HZ_XDm_VgAKxfDDQ8ZfthpYmFkNeMPBNdcZFH38A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC6C2B8BE709428CBFF18A42EC72F68A@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
What a story. That is terrible. If that student wanted to, they had grounds 
for suing I think.
I use dss and find them a necessary part of my school studies; sometimes a 
necessary evil though.
I need them to get accomodations. Every semester I am at this community 
college, their policy is that
I get my memo of accomodation, MOA, from them.
I give that to professors. It has accomodations like extended time on exams, 
use of other devices for notetaking, electronic handouts, and
option to record lectures. Alternate formats of textbooks is on it, but as I 
said before, I rarely get a format I can use.

Anyway, that's too bad your college had a heavy hand i n it all by 
contacting
professors for materials because blind students can get that themselves.
I would have hated this. If professors want to have conversations with dss, 
they should include the blind student.
I was at George mason university, GMU,  before marymount university.
At that time the dss did not talk to professors much and let the blind 
student do most advocacy. Sure they had accomodation memos and had a testing 
room for students to use, but it was up to the blind student to distribute 
the accomodation memo and
get needed material from professors.
Now things have changed from what I heard. Now, they talk to professors for 
you and distribute
letters for you. I don't know whether gmu goes as far as requesting all 
materials a professor will use, but it would not surprise me if theydid.
That is just so so custodial, not to mention time inefficient. Professors 
can email us documents. No need to send to the dss office and the dss send 
them to us.

And suggesting someone drop a class is utter discrimination. How terrible.

Anyway, I'll just find another class.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi all,
Marc, I completely agree with you, but unfortunately I suspect that
talking to professors about students without students is the norm
rather than the exception among DSS offices. I could be wrong, but say
that based on my own experience with my former university's office,
whose counselors would repeatedly have discussions with my professors
without making any effort to include me. I know of at least two
conversations and don't know how many others happened that I was not
told about. They also sent letters to all blind students' professors
at the beginning of each semester asking for detailed information
about all the materials used in that professor's class, instead of
trusting the blind student to get them that information. I found this
practice not only disrespectful by leaving out the student, but also
inefficient because sometimes professors would give them supplementary
info that I didn't really need converted because it was already
accessible or not critical to the class. If I had been involved in
those email conversations it would have reduced their workload
significantly. However, the worst was what happened to my friend, when
the DSS counselor urged him to drop a class and take it with a
different professor without giving him any explanation. When my friend
and I (and a few other NFB folks) confronted them about their
practices of engaging our professors in discussions without us, and I
asked why they had urged my friend to drop his class, the DSS
counselor said "I am not allowed to tell him why he needed to drop the
class, because of confidentiality". So apparently it is more important
to protect the privacy of a professor's comments about a blind student
than it is to disclose full information to a student that could affect
their academic choices?
I suspect the problem with overbearing DSS staff is about ADA
lawsuits. DSS people are motivated to make sure they don't get sued
for being under-accommodating, so they are motivated to maintain
control of accommodation-related conversations as much as possible. If
they get questions from professors and direct the professor to talk to
the student, as they should, they risk having the issue go unresolved
and ending up with a lawsuit. By staying in control of those
conversations the DSS staff are ensuring they come off as being as
accommodating as possible so they can't get blamed later on for
problems. Unfortunately this attitude undermines the autonomy and
rights of blind students.
What I will say is that there is a trade-off between resources and
autonomy when you do anything through a DSS office, and it's up to you
how you want to handle that trade-off. For instance, if you prefer
Braille for certain classes and the DSS provides Braille, then it
might be worth the hassle and loss of autonomy to go ahead and work
with them. However, if your DSS is incredibly custodial like my old
one was and/or if you would be fine with audio or E-text copies of
books from BookShare or the publisher, or if the DSS doesn't provide
much help to begin with, (i.e. no Braille) then you can forgo DSS
help. In my own case, after my run-in with DSS late in my junior year,
I stopped working with them and instead obtained my books from
Learning Ally or scanned them. No professor had any issue with my not
being involved with DSS anymore. However by that time I was done with
most of my science classes so Braille was less critical. If it had
happened earlier in my education I might have stuck it out with DSS.
In either case, just know that DSS is one of many options you have.
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Marc,
>
> I did mention that it wasn't right for him to ignore her, and do see
> the counselor as more at fault than the professor.  We can't really
> say if it was infantilizing or not because it isn't necessarily the
> professor's job to know exactly how to do things for us in the
> appropriate way, and some profs do view the office as not the
> custodian of disabled students, but a resource for advice.  The
> professor should be able to use the resources including the ds office
> that are available to him, but it is then up to the ds office to
> either offer helpful advice and to inform the prof that it's really
> not that different from working with a sighted student, or totally
> feed into the professor's negative mindset or intimidation by not
> saying, "Here, why don't we let the student tell you herself?"  My
> office urges professors to contact them with any questions that
> concern accomodations they have granted the student, because they,
> after all, are the deciding factor in what assistance we can and
> cannot receive.  I do see the prof not returning Ashley's call as rude
> and agree with you there, but this is no different from a good 80 to
> 90 percent of people we come into contact with who are scared of the
> idea of working with blind people simply because they don't know.  It
> sounds like Ashley has had problems with her ds office before though,
> (Not providing textbooks in a reasonable format like word or text
> sounds ridiculous to me, and they really have no excuse for not trying
> to meet her halfway since they're supposed to be there to help her),
> and I agree the counselor should have tried to bring her into the
> conversation in a more professional way, or at least directed the prof
> back to Ashley herself with his questions.  If there was any
> infantilizing treatment, I'd guess it was more on the counselor's part
> than the prof's because the counselor really should have known better.
>  I'm not saying he is totally not to blame, but I was just saying that
> this is nothing new and instead of treating it by blaming him for
> approaching the situation this way when he might have felt really
> intimidated because of ignorance the focus should be on changing his
> expectations and outlook on working with a blind student.
>
> Maybe I'm in a different situation though.  The one time I know of
> that a professor talked with my ds office without me was when they
> were working to braille my stats book way in advance.  A few weeks ago
> he asked them what they felt would be appropriate ways to handle using
> work sheets so that he could give me accessible options to choose
> from.  I was initially told this by my counselor, but he emailed me
> the next afternoon and gave me the same options so I felt like he was
> trying to make sure the choices he gave me would work no matter which
> one I chose, not trying to decide something for me behind my back.  On
> the other hand, I had a prof last semester who was horrible and who
> never contacted the DS office about anything, not even my materials to
> make sure they were okay or anything.  He was really ignorant and even
> made some rude remarks in class about my blindness, and although I
> tried to educate him by example in class he wouldn't budge the whole
> semester.  Even during finals week he wouldn't fill out the form for
> sending his exam to them and I had to get the office to personally
> contact him in order for them to get his exam in time.  This is why I
> approve of professors contacting the disabilities office because odds
> are that if they're taking the time to do so it's because they want
> advice or want to know what they can do in their teaching to be
> helpful to us as students.  But like I said, it's up to the
> disabilities office to either make that professor feel more aware of
> the capabilities of blind students and prepared to teach them as well
> as their sighted pupils, or not educate or positively advise at all.
> Sounds to me like that was what really happened here.
>
> On 1/12/13, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kaiti wrote,
>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>> tidbit to you in a better way.
>>
>> I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
>> person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
>> consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
>> found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
>> ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
>> some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if
>> he
>> was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously
>> doubt
>> it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some
>> as
>> the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students
>> and
>> the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
>>
>> The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take
>> place
>> without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
>> issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
>> councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
>> participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
>> active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who
>> the
>> grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
>> "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should
>> approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached
>> by
>> a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
>> authority, the student.
>>
>> I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away,
>> but
>> what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
>> inappropriate.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Marc
>> On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
>>> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
>>> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
>>> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
>>> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
>>> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
>>> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
>>> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
>>> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
>>> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
>>> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
>>> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
>>> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
>>> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
>>> screen.
>>>
>>> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
>>> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
>>> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
>>> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
>>> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
>>> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
>>> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
>>> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>>>
>>> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>>>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>>>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>>>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>>>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>>>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>>>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>>>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>>>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>>>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>>>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>>>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>>>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>>>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>>>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>>>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>>>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>>>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>>>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>>>> interesting and informative.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in
>>>>> the
>>>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>>>>> Save
>>>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets
>>>>> you
>>>>> save
>>>>> the file as a text file.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>>>> professional
>>>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>>>> JFW
>>>>>> as:
>>>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot
>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible
>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your
>>>>>>> knowledge,
>>>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> only reason
>>>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>>>> videos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> this right.
>>>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>>>> hit text
>>>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading,
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for
>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading?
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>> book.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 03:22:48 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:22:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CC6C2B8BE709428CBFF18A42EC72F68A@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
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	<E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl>
	<2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21>
	<CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCC50HZ_XDm_VgAKxfDDQ8ZfthpYmFkNeMPBNdcZFH38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC6C2B8BE709428CBFF18A42EC72F68A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCSKgLaeE_SiSQ0FTFN5uhB2wyMBgqhP57CvcvVW2pdSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,
Yes, I think my friend might have had grounds to sue if he felt so
inclined. To be fair, maybe the DSS counselor was saying it would
break confidentiality to talk about my friend's situation in front of
me, but then she should have explained everything to my friend
privately some other time.
I'm hoping my old university is worse than average, but I do think
that leaving students out of conversations is fairly common.
Are you sure you absolutely need the accommodation memo? Most of the
accommodations you say are on it, like using alternate forms for
notetaking, is something you can just do without your professor's
permission. The only thing you might need a DSS memo for is testing
accommodations, but I'd think you'd be surprised how many professors
will just work things out with you and not care much about the memo.
After all, the memos are mostly for students who don't have obvious
disabilities to prove to the professor that a student is actually
disabled. If you're blind and use a cane or Braille or special
equipment this shouldn't be a problem.
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Arielle,
> What a story. That is terrible. If that student wanted to, they had grounds
>
> for suing I think.
> I use dss and find them a necessary part of my school studies; sometimes a
> necessary evil though.
> I need them to get accomodations. Every semester I am at this community
> college, their policy is that
> I get my memo of accomodation, MOA, from them.
> I give that to professors. It has accomodations like extended time on exams,
>
> use of other devices for notetaking, electronic handouts, and
> option to record lectures. Alternate formats of textbooks is on it, but as I
>
> said before, I rarely get a format I can use.
>
> Anyway, that's too bad your college had a heavy hand i n it all by
> contacting
> professors for materials because blind students can get that themselves.
> I would have hated this. If professors want to have conversations with dss,
>
> they should include the blind student.
> I was at George mason university, GMU,  before marymount university.
> At that time the dss did not talk to professors much and let the blind
> student do most advocacy. Sure they had accomodation memos and had a testing
>
> room for students to use, but it was up to the blind student to distribute
> the accomodation memo and
> get needed material from professors.
> Now things have changed from what I heard. Now, they talk to professors for
>
> you and distribute
> letters for you. I don't know whether gmu goes as far as requesting all
> materials a professor will use, but it would not surprise me if theydid.
> That is just so so custodial, not to mention time inefficient. Professors
> can email us documents. No need to send to the dss office and the dss send
> them to us.
>
> And suggesting someone drop a class is utter discrimination. How terrible.
>
> Anyway, I'll just find another class.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi all,
> Marc, I completely agree with you, but unfortunately I suspect that
> talking to professors about students without students is the norm
> rather than the exception among DSS offices. I could be wrong, but say
> that based on my own experience with my former university's office,
> whose counselors would repeatedly have discussions with my professors
> without making any effort to include me. I know of at least two
> conversations and don't know how many others happened that I was not
> told about. They also sent letters to all blind students' professors
> at the beginning of each semester asking for detailed information
> about all the materials used in that professor's class, instead of
> trusting the blind student to get them that information. I found this
> practice not only disrespectful by leaving out the student, but also
> inefficient because sometimes professors would give them supplementary
> info that I didn't really need converted because it was already
> accessible or not critical to the class. If I had been involved in
> those email conversations it would have reduced their workload
> significantly. However, the worst was what happened to my friend, when
> the DSS counselor urged him to drop a class and take it with a
> different professor without giving him any explanation. When my friend
> and I (and a few other NFB folks) confronted them about their
> practices of engaging our professors in discussions without us, and I
> asked why they had urged my friend to drop his class, the DSS
> counselor said "I am not allowed to tell him why he needed to drop the
> class, because of confidentiality". So apparently it is more important
> to protect the privacy of a professor's comments about a blind student
> than it is to disclose full information to a student that could affect
> their academic choices?
> I suspect the problem with overbearing DSS staff is about ADA
> lawsuits. DSS people are motivated to make sure they don't get sued
> for being under-accommodating, so they are motivated to maintain
> control of accommodation-related conversations as much as possible. If
> they get questions from professors and direct the professor to talk to
> the student, as they should, they risk having the issue go unresolved
> and ending up with a lawsuit. By staying in control of those
> conversations the DSS staff are ensuring they come off as being as
> accommodating as possible so they can't get blamed later on for
> problems. Unfortunately this attitude undermines the autonomy and
> rights of blind students.
> What I will say is that there is a trade-off between resources and
> autonomy when you do anything through a DSS office, and it's up to you
> how you want to handle that trade-off. For instance, if you prefer
> Braille for certain classes and the DSS provides Braille, then it
> might be worth the hassle and loss of autonomy to go ahead and work
> with them. However, if your DSS is incredibly custodial like my old
> one was and/or if you would be fine with audio or E-text copies of
> books from BookShare or the publisher, or if the DSS doesn't provide
> much help to begin with, (i.e. no Braille) then you can forgo DSS
> help. In my own case, after my run-in with DSS late in my junior year,
> I stopped working with them and instead obtained my books from
> Learning Ally or scanned them. No professor had any issue with my not
> being involved with DSS anymore. However by that time I was done with
> most of my science classes so Braille was less critical. If it had
> happened earlier in my education I might have stuck it out with DSS.
> In either case, just know that DSS is one of many options you have.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/12/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marc,
>>
>> I did mention that it wasn't right for him to ignore her, and do see
>> the counselor as more at fault than the professor.  We can't really
>> say if it was infantilizing or not because it isn't necessarily the
>> professor's job to know exactly how to do things for us in the
>> appropriate way, and some profs do view the office as not the
>> custodian of disabled students, but a resource for advice.  The
>> professor should be able to use the resources including the ds office
>> that are available to him, but it is then up to the ds office to
>> either offer helpful advice and to inform the prof that it's really
>> not that different from working with a sighted student, or totally
>> feed into the professor's negative mindset or intimidation by not
>> saying, "Here, why don't we let the student tell you herself?"  My
>> office urges professors to contact them with any questions that
>> concern accomodations they have granted the student, because they,
>> after all, are the deciding factor in what assistance we can and
>> cannot receive.  I do see the prof not returning Ashley's call as rude
>> and agree with you there, but this is no different from a good 80 to
>> 90 percent of people we come into contact with who are scared of the
>> idea of working with blind people simply because they don't know.  It
>> sounds like Ashley has had problems with her ds office before though,
>> (Not providing textbooks in a reasonable format like word or text
>> sounds ridiculous to me, and they really have no excuse for not trying
>> to meet her halfway since they're supposed to be there to help her),
>> and I agree the counselor should have tried to bring her into the
>> conversation in a more professional way, or at least directed the prof
>> back to Ashley herself with his questions.  If there was any
>> infantilizing treatment, I'd guess it was more on the counselor's part
>> than the prof's because the counselor really should have known better.
>>  I'm not saying he is totally not to blame, but I was just saying that
>> this is nothing new and instead of treating it by blaming him for
>> approaching the situation this way when he might have felt really
>> intimidated because of ignorance the focus should be on changing his
>> expectations and outlook on working with a blind student.
>>
>> Maybe I'm in a different situation though.  The one time I know of
>> that a professor talked with my ds office without me was when they
>> were working to braille my stats book way in advance.  A few weeks ago
>> he asked them what they felt would be appropriate ways to handle using
>> work sheets so that he could give me accessible options to choose
>> from.  I was initially told this by my counselor, but he emailed me
>> the next afternoon and gave me the same options so I felt like he was
>> trying to make sure the choices he gave me would work no matter which
>> one I chose, not trying to decide something for me behind my back.  On
>> the other hand, I had a prof last semester who was horrible and who
>> never contacted the DS office about anything, not even my materials to
>> make sure they were okay or anything.  He was really ignorant and even
>> made some rude remarks in class about my blindness, and although I
>> tried to educate him by example in class he wouldn't budge the whole
>> semester.  Even during finals week he wouldn't fill out the form for
>> sending his exam to them and I had to get the office to personally
>> contact him in order for them to get his exam in time.  This is why I
>> approve of professors contacting the disabilities office because odds
>> are that if they're taking the time to do so it's because they want
>> advice or want to know what they can do in their teaching to be
>> helpful to us as students.  But like I said, it's up to the
>> disabilities office to either make that professor feel more aware of
>> the capabilities of blind students and prepared to teach them as well
>> as their sighted pupils, or not educate or positively advise at all.
>> Sounds to me like that was what really happened here.
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kaiti wrote,
>>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>>> tidbit to you in a better way.
>>>
>>> I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
>>> person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
>>> consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
>>> found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
>>> ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
>>> some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre
>>> if
>>> he
>>> was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously
>>> doubt
>>> it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some
>>> as
>>> the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students
>>> and
>>> the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
>>>
>>> The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take
>>> place
>>> without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
>>> issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
>>> councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
>>> participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
>>> active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who
>>> the
>>> grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
>>> "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he
>>> should
>>> approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached
>>> by
>>> a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
>>> authority, the student.
>>>
>>> I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away,
>>> but
>>> what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
>>> inappropriate.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>> On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>>> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
>>>> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
>>>> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
>>>> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
>>>> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
>>>> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
>>>> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
>>>> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
>>>> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
>>>> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
>>>> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
>>>> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
>>>> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
>>>> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
>>>> screen.
>>>>
>>>> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
>>>> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
>>>> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
>>>> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
>>>> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
>>>> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
>>>> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
>>>> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>>>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>>>>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>>>>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>>>>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>>>>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>>>>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>>>>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>>>>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>>>>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>>>>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>>>>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>>>>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>>>>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>>>>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>>>>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>>>>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>>>>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>>>>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>>>>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>>>>> interesting and informative.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Save
>>>>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> save
>>>>>> the file as a text file.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>>>>> professional
>>>>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read
>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>> JFW
>>>>>>> as:
>>>>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot
>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible
>>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your
>>>>>>>> knowledge,
>>>>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> only reason
>>>>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>>>>> videos
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she
>>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> this right.
>>>>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or
>>>>>>>> knowledge.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>>>>> hit text
>>>>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them.
>>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before,
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board.
>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are
>>>>>>>>> reading?
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>> book.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 03:50:15 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:50:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
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	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>

Hi, Kirt,

In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class 
was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate 
such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>Ashley and Carly,
>I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else 
>does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to 
>have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time 
>as everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given 
>precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test 
>how well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time 
>and a prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before 
>hand. To me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all 
>ready learned what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair 
>advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please 
>enlighten me.
>Warmest regards,
>Kirt
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
><bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Carley,
> > I do the same as you usually.
> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my 
> trusted desktop.
> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic 
> before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
> >
> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as 
> long as I email it them soon after class.
> >
> > Ashley
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; 
> National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> >
> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
> >
> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> >> Aleeha
> >>
> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> >> > Arielle
> >> >
> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Deb
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
> >> >>> its
> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the 
> professor knows >>> it
> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
> >> >>> Students
> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
> >> >>> writing.
> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
> >> >>> are
> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
> >> >>> other
> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
> >> >>> over
> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ashley
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 04:22:16 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 23:22:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <451EC708E8974A3D857A2F67D4B7BABC@OwnerPC>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC><BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl><2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>	<0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com>
	<451EC708E8974A3D857A2F67D4B7BABC@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <000301cdf145$93560ce0$ba0226a0$@gmail.com>

Ashley,

	I agree with you. How inappropriate and disrespectful!
Unfortunately, this probably all goes back to the old misconception that we
can't speak for ourselves.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello Marc,
Thanks. Exactly how I feel! What happened as I said was we coresponded for
several messages. He expressed concerns and I asked him questions. I found
out he showed videos in class and gave pop quizzes; these were concerns on
both our ends.

Then he suggests I take a class online with a different professor. Then I
wrote to him requesting we discuss his concerns  in a phone conversation.
That is when he did not return my calls. Instead, that very day, the dss
counselor leaves me a message because Dr. S.
came to him and she in turn came to me. It was inappropriate for him to do
this. He did not even tell me he'd do this!

I find it disrespectful since other students talk to their professors and
have an understanding of privacy. Why can't we blind students have the same
curtesy? I mean if a veteran came to class they would not go to the veterans
office for questions. I loved your example of the international student.

Also, I feel when the accomodations come up, all my dss says anyway is the
basics are covered like electronic handouts and extended time on exams. if I
request something different they said they're not required to do that. 
Someone on list said they get tactile diagrams; I did not get that option.

Anyway, he did what he did and its history. I just hope it doesn't happen to
other students.
It likely will though.

Ashley


-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Kaiti wrote,
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily 
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone 
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's 
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know 
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was 
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just 
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then 
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds 
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at 
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got 
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that 
> tidbit to you in a better way.

I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if he
was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt
it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some as
the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students and
the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.

The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take place
without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who the
grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states: 
"nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should
approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached by
a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
authority, the student.

I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away, but
what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
inappropriate.

Regards,

Marc
On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
>
> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily 
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone 
> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's 
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know 
> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was 
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just 
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then 
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds 
> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at 
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got 
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that 
> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might 
> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation 
> though.
>
> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My 
> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they 
> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer 
> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of 
> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board 
> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really 
> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my 
> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled 
> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services 
> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader 
> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when 
> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was 
> very good about reading the text and describing important details on 
> screen.
>
> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could 
> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing 
> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit 
> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and 
> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the 
> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was 
> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>
> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley and all,
>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go 
>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and 
>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest 
>> that dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him 
>> win. What I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of 
>> his class and see what the assignments are like and if you are able 
>> to keep up with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot 
>> of faith in the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind 
>> students don't really need this content to keep up. Also, as others 
>> have suggested, if you read the material before class, you may not 
>> need to keep up with the paragraph or page number the others are 
>> reading in class in order to participate in discussion. Instead of 
>> letting the professor decide for you whether or not his class is 
>> accessible, go to a few classes and you can make an informed choice 
>> based on what you know about how you learn and what problems you can 
>> solve on your own. If after an honest attempt you still find you are 
>> having trouble keeping up, then you can drop his class knowing that 
>> you in fact made the right choice. On the other hand, you might find 
>> the class is more accessible than he is making it out to be and that 
>> it is in fact interesting and informative.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu 
>>> in the free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is 
>>> not in the Save As box though. It is its own separate item in the 
>>> menu, and it lets you save the file as a text file.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>>
>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the 
>>>> professional or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with 
>>>> the traditional Adobe
>>>>
>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>>> JFW
>>>> as:
>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices 
>>>> have the program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this 
>>>> helps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it 
>>>>> as text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot 
>>>>> change it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never 
>>>>> will give me a doc file.
>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a 
>>>>> flash drive
>>>>>
>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have 
>>>>> not invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, 
>>>>> they could fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more 
>>>>> accessible format such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and 
>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>
>>>>> students.
>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>>> I
>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to 
>>>>> take another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  
>>>>> knowledge, there is nothing you can do.
>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>>> The
>>>>>
>>>>> only reason
>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and 
>>>>> stated she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss 
>>>>> and I never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. 
>>>>> I should find
>>>>>
>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I have never found this 
>>>>> counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I think all she'll 
>>>>> say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos
>>>>>
>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the 
>>>>> college isn't
>>>>>
>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she 
>>>>> told me they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to 
>>>>> take i t auditorily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I 
>>>>> think discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other 
>>>>> options and email her that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email 
>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other 
>>>>> students have this right.
>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or 
>>>>> knowledge. I am
>>>>>
>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about 
>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone 
>>>>> does this again, I will do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I 
>>>>> have written proof of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students 
>>>>> mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>> hit text
>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be 
>>>>> accommodating, I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are 
>>>>> set up to where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, 
>>>>> by heading, or by sentence, so this may help with at least finding 
>>>>> the page number, and then if you go by sentence or if there is a 
>>>>> paragraph setting then you may be able to find the paragraph 
>>>>> easier.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. 
>>>>>> Students in that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on 
>>>>>> page 14.
>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, 
>>>>>> they give
>>>>>>
>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book 
>>>>>> is broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with 
>>>>>> the reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go 
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and 
>>>>>> he was very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his 
>>>>>> Corse load and he was also an international star. He said I would 
>>>>>> probably fail his class because he used lots of pictures and he 
>>>>>> wrote lots on the board. He also said that I would not benefit 
>>>>>> from the top notch pictures he both presented in front of the 
>>>>>> class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my Disability 
>>>>>> counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading 
>>>>>> scale than the normal students.
>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we 
>>>>>> could work something out. I took the head of the Accessibility 
>>>>>> department to one of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after 
>>>>>> class started and we gave solutions. We also presented 
>>>>>> alternatives for him to choose from. He then gave us his opinions 
>>>>>> and what he was willing to do.
>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things 
>>>>>> were going well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that 
>>>>>> class and that was one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are 
>>>>>> reading? I just do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He 
>>>>>> looked to where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through 
>>>>>> the whole book.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>>>> il.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 04:25:20 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 21:25:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>

Carly,
That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, though. I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without doing it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm curious how you think that is fair?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi, Kirt,
> 
> In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>> Ashley and Carly,
>> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Kirt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Carley,
>> > I do the same as you usually.
>> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted desktop.
>> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>> >
>> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I email it them soon after class.
>> >
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>> >
>> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>> >
>> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> >> Aleeha
>> >>
>> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> >> > Arielle
>> >> >
>> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Deb
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Hi all,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> >> >>> its
>> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows >>> it
>> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> >> >>> Students
>> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> >> >>> writing.
>> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> >> >>> are
>> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> >> >>> other
>> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>> >> >>> over
>> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Ashley
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> >
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 04:56:18 2013
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:56:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Needs Musicians!
Message-ID: <50f23e66.69a7b60a.5038.380f@mx.google.com>

Hello NABS Members,

 

As many of you know, NABS is holding a fundraising/social event at this
year's Washington Seminar.  In order to repeat last year's massively
successful

NABS Cafe, we need you! We want talented performers to draw in and entertain
the crowd. If you are going to be in Washington DC the evening of February

4, 2013, and are interested in performing, please email me off-list. Let me
know what instrument you play, or if it's your aa cappella chops you'll be

showing off. Please also send me a demo of your music in MP3 format. 

 

I'm looking forward to hearing from many of you!

 

Karen Anderson


From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 05:09:48 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 21:09:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>

Hi, Kirt,
In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind 
student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>Carly,
>That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, 
>though. I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the 
>rest of your school day with the chance to think about the prompt, 
>even without doing it consciously, and then going home to work on 
>it? That gives you a lot more time to gather your thoughts than 
>everybody else received. I'm curious how you think that is fair?
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi, Kirt,
> >
> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the 
> class was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I 
> recreate such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
> >> Ashley and Carly,
> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone 
> else does during their class time at home, especially since you 
> seem to have alternative methods available to do the work at the 
> same time as everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments 
> are given precisely because class time is short, and professors 
> want to test how well you can write under pressure, with a limited 
> amount of time and a prompt you may not have had the chance to 
> think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at home, 
> well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is 
> definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, 
> I apologize. Please enlighten me.
> >> Warmest regards,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Carley,
> >> > I do the same as you usually.
> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my 
> trusted desktop.
> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the 
> topic before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
> >> >
> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as 
> long as I email it them soon after class.
> >> >
> >> > Ashley
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; 
> National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> >> >
> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
> >> >
> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> >> >> Aleeha
> >> >>
> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much 
> bigger than
> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> >> >> > Arielle
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to 
> the professor?
> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Deb
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing 
> sometimes. Typically
> >> >> >>> its
> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the 
> professor knows >>> it
> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
> >> >> >>> Students
> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
> >> >> >>> writing.
> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you 
> write them on a
> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand 
> it in since we
> >> >> >>> are
> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written 
> outside class and
> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille 
> display to
> >> >> >>> other
> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I 
> could walk
> >> >> >>> over
> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Ashley
> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
> account info for
> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
> account info for
> >> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> > nabs-l:
> >> >> >
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sun Jan 13 10:07:16 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:07:16 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's
In-Reply-To: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C644F78@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Web Vissom, but it only works wit Firefox.
That's the only one.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of RJ Sandefur [joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's

Does anyone know of any captcha solving tools? RJ
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu




From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 12:57:37 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 07:57:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C644F78@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <000601cdf0ff$0a055220$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C644F78@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D20F905C-0548-4755-A79D-9AA95F801B5F@gmail.com>

There are others, but you have to pay for those.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 13, 2013, at 5:07 AM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:

> Web Vissom, but it only works wit Firefox.
> That's the only one.
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of RJ Sandefur [joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] solving Captcha's
> 
> Does anyone know of any captcha solving tools? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 15:34:03 2013
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:34:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuescfoQP5uUr541ghwt8VpDq6AZd=UGHn0HxcXyigKzL+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
	<D91FE0521561482C9920CA63E95B0B2F@acerd37f251f21>
	<CABDhuescfoQP5uUr541ghwt8VpDq6AZd=UGHn0HxcXyigKzL+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj4=Mi-=XUrf6=+Am+XTj6+Y9=9nAdgpsmY7FYjc=fSwXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashley,
I worked for my community college's Blackboard department for about
two semesters and you should be able to take quizzes online. Just
remember that you have to use the radio buttons to select your
answers.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 1/12/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   I've had my fair share of issues with blackboard.  (I still cringe
> when I think about those stupid PDF image files that blackboard
> wouldn't let me save on my computer.)  That being said, I've never had
> a problem with any blackboard quizz being inaccessible, and I've taken
> my fair share.  I use jaws and I switch between IE and firefox,
> depending on what works best on the corner of the web I'm browsing.
>   HTH,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> My current campus uses Moodle instead of Blackboard, but I did use
>> Blackboard at another campus I took classes at, and I was able to take
>> quizzes without any trouble. Basically, there were questions, and then
>> after
>> each question, there were checkboxes with answer choices, and you just
>> check
>> the correct answer with the spacebar or enter. After you have answered
>> all
>> of the questions, there is usually a button for Submit or save or
>> whatever
>> the case may be. The only issue you may run into is that the quizzes may
>> be
>> timed depending on whether the instructor chose to time them, but usually
>> I
>> find that I am able to finish before time is up. Also, on Blackboard,
>> instructors can limit the number of attempts, so it is best to make sure
>> that you are definitely ready to take the quiz before entering it,
>> because
>> once you close the quiz window if the attempts are limited to just one,
>> then
>> it will lock you out of the quiz. I had this happen one time on
>> Blackboard
>> where I was new to it and hit the wrong button and accidentally closed
>> it,
>> but I explained what had happened to my professor, so he was able to
>> unlock
>> it for me to try once more because I closed it before I could answer any
>> of
>> the questions.
>> Anyway, this is my experience with Blackboard.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:00 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
>>> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes
>>> were
>>> not accessible.
>>> Does jaws tell you what
>>> answer you selected as you review the question?
>>>
>>> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
>>> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the
>>> quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
>>> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it
>>> before.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From beckyasabo at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 15:52:13 2013
From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 08:52:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need some help
Message-ID: <002101cdf1a5$f50b9fd0$df22df70$@gmail.com>

	Hi all,
I have been having trouble with my I phone all weekend with itunes.  I have
been trying to read my music and I was able to do that but there is some
music that I did not want on the the phone is there a way to take it off the
phone through I tunes'  I would like any help from anyone off list my email
address is beckyasabo at gmail if no one nws to help me does anyone know where
I could go and get some help and I also am having trouble with my ring tones
too.
Becky Sabo  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Karen Anderson
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Needs Musicians!

Hello NABS Members,

 

As many of you know, NABS is holding a fundraising/social event at this
year's Washington Seminar.  In order to repeat last year's massively
successful

NABS Cafe, we need you! We want talented performers to draw in and entertain
the crowd. If you are going to be in Washington DC the evening of February

4, 2013, and are interested in performing, please email me off-list. Let me
know what instrument you play, or if it's your aa cappella chops you'll be

showing off. Please also send me a demo of your music in MP3 format. 

 

I'm looking forward to hearing from many of you!

 

Karen Anderson

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com



From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 16:04:06 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:04:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] need some help
In-Reply-To: <002101cdf1a5$f50b9fd0$df22df70$@gmail.com>
References: <002101cdf1a5$f50b9fd0$df22df70$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F7BE7E3-EAF9-475F-9B14-EFF5CF8F05D5@gmail.com>

greetings,

the only songs which are automatically synchronized into your apple device running IOS AKA iPhone from your mac or windows are the ones you purchase. for anything else, you had to order it to synchronize.
I believe you may remove those files from the phone,though i advice only removing them from your library, just in case your configuration is set to removing what you remove from the iPhone from your windows as well.

if you would like one to one assistance, e-mail me at
mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com
and we can even schedule a Skype call about that if you so prefer.

mauricio
On Jan 13, 2013, at 10:52 AM, "becky sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:

> 	Hi all,
> I have been having trouble with my I phone all weekend with itunes.  I have
> been trying to read my music and I was able to do that but there is some
> music that I did not want on the the phone is there a way to take it off the
> phone through I tunes'  I would like any help from anyone off list my email
> address is beckyasabo at gmail if no one nws to help me does anyone know where
> I could go and get some help and I also am having trouble with my ring tones
> too.
> Becky Sabo  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Karen Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Needs Musicians!
> 
> Hello NABS Members,
> 
> 
> 
> As many of you know, NABS is holding a fundraising/social event at this
> year's Washington Seminar.  In order to repeat last year's massively
> successful
> 
> NABS Cafe, we need you! We want talented performers to draw in and entertain
> the crowd. If you are going to be in Washington DC the evening of February
> 
> 4, 2013, and are interested in performing, please email me off-list. Let me
> know what instrument you play, or if it's your aa cappella chops you'll be
> 
> showing off. Please also send me a demo of your music in MP3 format. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing from many of you!
> 
> 
> 
> Karen Anderson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 16:44:57 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:44:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>

Carly,
How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how you could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before the widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But, especially now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the work done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify that to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to complete the assignment fairly?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi, Kirt,
> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>> Carly,
>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, though. I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without doing it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm curious how you think that is fair?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi, Kirt,
>> >
>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>> >> Warmest regards,
>> >> Kirt
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Carley,
>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted desktop.
>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>> >> >
>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long as I email it them soon after class.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ashley
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>> >> >
>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop getting
>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many other
>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in order
>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of classes.
>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different possibilities
>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> >> >> Aleeha
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger than
>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only costs
>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. I
>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry some
>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use is
>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> >> >> > Arielle
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the professor?
>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Deb
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. Typically
>> >> >> >>> its
>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor knows >>> it
>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class writing.
>> >> >> >>> Students
>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in the
>> >> >> >>> writing.
>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as well.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write them on a
>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in since we
>> >> >> >>> are
>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside class and
>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille display to
>> >> >> >>> other
>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could walk
>> >> >> >>> over
>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the professor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 13 17:18:51 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:18:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC><CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com><CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net><0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC><25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net><4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
	<6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>

Kirt,
I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker but 
at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks or 
Compact flash cards.
I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.

I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next class 
period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did not 
exist!
Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that amount 
at home.

I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille note 
accepting flash drives.
I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I 
can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.

I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy 
for them to receive my work electronically in email.
If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have 
internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students. So 
its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine 
separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other 
students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I get 
mine days later, usually.

I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper on 
how unfair college
treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed to 
have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get 
them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see slides 
same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to 
render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not get 
this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for 
the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help me 
if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time  what 
was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and 
they had to re ship it.
Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's shoulders 
to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice so 
you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often 
happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.

So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really 
doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing

Carly,
How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how you 
could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before the 
widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But, especially 
now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the work 
done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that 
just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify that 
to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to complete 
the assignment fairly?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi, Kirt,
> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind 
> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>> Carly,
>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, though. 
>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your 
>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without doing 
>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot 
>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm 
>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi, Kirt,
>> >
>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class 
>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate 
>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else 
>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to 
>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as 
>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given 
>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how 
>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a 
>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To 
>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned 
>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over 
>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>> >> Warmest regards,
>> >> Kirt
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Carley,
>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted 
>> >> > desktop.
>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic 
>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>> >> >
>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long 
>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ashley
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National 
>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>> >> >
>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is to
>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop 
>> >> >> getting
>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many 
>> >> >> other
>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very low
>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in 
>> >> >> order
>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of 
>> >> >> classes.
>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different 
>> >> >> possibilities
>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>> >> >> Aleeha
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger 
>> >> >> > than
>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only 
>> >> >> > costs
>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours. 
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry 
>> >> >> > some
>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers. Braille
>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a mainstream
>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use 
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>> >> >> > Arielle
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the 
>> >> >> >> professor?
>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Deb
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes. 
>> >> >> >>> Typically
>> >> >> >>> its
>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor 
>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class 
>> >> >> >>> writing.
>> >> >> >>> Students
>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in 
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >>> writing.
>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as 
>> >> >> >>> well.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write 
>> >> >> >>> them on a
>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in 
>> >> >> >>> since we
>> >> >> >>> are
>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside 
>> >> >> >>> class and
>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille 
>> >> >> >>> display to
>> >> >> >>> other
>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could 
>> >> >> >>> walk
>> >> >> >>> over
>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the 
>> >> >> >>> professor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>> >> >> >>> info for
>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>> >> >> >> info for
>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> >> >> for nabs-l:
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> >> > for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> >> > for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 17:28:39 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:28:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] need some help
Message-ID: <50f2eeda.82a1ec0a.776f.ffffcbf5@mx.google.com>

Becky, what's wrong with your ringtones?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "becky sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 08:52:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need some help

	Hi all,
I have been having trouble with my I phone all weekend with 
itunes.  I have
been trying to read my music and I was able to do that but there 
is some
music that I did not want on the the phone is there a way to take 
it off the
phone through I tunes'  I would like any help from anyone off 
list my email
address is beckyasabo at gmail if no one nws to help me does anyone 
know where
I could go and get some help and I also am having trouble with my 
ring tones
too.
Becky Sabo

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Karen Anderson
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Needs Musicians!

Hello NABS Members,



As many of you know, NABS is holding a fundraising/social event 
at this
year's Washington Seminar.  In order to repeat last year's 
massively
successful

NABS Cafe, we need you! We want talented performers to draw in 
and entertain
the crowd. If you are going to be in Washington DC the evening of 
February

4, 2013, and are interested in performing, please email me 
off-list. Let me
know what instrument you play, or if it's your aa cappella chops 
you'll be

showing off. Please also send me a demo of your music in MP3 
format.



I'm looking forward to hearing from many of you!



Karen Anderson

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40
gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 18:05:29 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:05:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] need some help
In-Reply-To: <50f2eeda.82a1ec0a.776f.ffffcbf5@mx.google.com>
References: <50f2eeda.82a1ec0a.776f.ffffcbf5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbsAGWppn-yrsdADKQZfLxPfWnqZkjo0pRMMTk9q+JOaA@mail.gmail.com>

Becky,

I have emailed you off list, but in case others are interested here is
how to remove songs.  (Assuming you are running the up-to-date version
of IOS).

Find the song in your ITunes library and when voiceover announces the
name swipe one finger down.  The phone should then say delete.  If
this is what you want to do double tap and the song will be removed
from your phone.

HTH

On 1/13/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Becky, what's wrong with your ringtones?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "becky sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 08:52:13 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] need some help
>
> 	Hi all,
> I have been having trouble with my I phone all weekend with
> itunes.  I have
> been trying to read my music and I was able to do that but there
> is some
> music that I did not want on the the phone is there a way to take
> it off the
> phone through I tunes'  I would like any help from anyone off
> list my email
> address is beckyasabo at gmail if no one nws to help me does anyone
> know where
> I could go and get some help and I also am having trouble with my
> ring tones
> too.
> Becky Sabo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Karen Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Needs Musicians!
>
> Hello NABS Members,
>
>
>
> As many of you know, NABS is holding a fundraising/social event
> at this
> year's Washington Seminar.  In order to repeat last year's
> massively
> successful
>
> NABS Cafe, we need you! We want talented performers to draw in
> and entertain
> the crowd. If you are going to be in Washington DC the evening of
> February
>
> 4, 2013, and are interested in performing, please email me
> off-list. Let me
> know what instrument you play, or if it's your aa cappella chops
> you'll be
>
> showing off. Please also send me a demo of your music in MP3
> format.
>
>
>
> I'm looking forward to hearing from many of you!
>
>
>
> Karen Anderson
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40
> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 20:53:27 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:53:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
	<6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
	<8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CABDhueuPs5YKpyRX-CfGn6JQsv4SDbdZC6v+1rUZiR-0d5i_6w@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
  Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
  That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
allowed that very beneficial luxury.
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kirt,
> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker but
>
> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks or
> Compact flash cards.
> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
>
> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next class
> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did not
> exist!
> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that amount
> at home.
>
> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille note
>
> accepting flash drives.
> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I
> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.
>
> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy
> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students. So
> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I get
>
> mine days later, usually.
>
> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper on
>
> how unfair college
> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed to
>
> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see slides
>
> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not get
>
> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for
> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help me
>
> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time  what
> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and
> they had to re ship it.
> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's shoulders
>
> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice so
>
> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
>
> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirt
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Carly,
> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how you
> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before the
> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But, especially
>
> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the work
>
> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify that
>
> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to complete
> the assignment fairly?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Kirt,
>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>> Carly,
>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, though.
>>>
>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without doing
>>>
>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot
>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
>>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi, Kirt,
>>> >
>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class
>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate
>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>> >>
>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how
>>> >>
>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a
>>> >>
>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To
>>> >>
>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned
>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>> >> Warmest regards,
>>> >> Kirt
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Carley,
>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>> >> >
>>> >> > desktop.
>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long
>>> >> >
>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ashley
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
>>> >> > to
>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
>>> >> >> getting
>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
>>> >> >> other
>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
>>> >> >> low
>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
>>> >> >> order
>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>> >> >> classes.
>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>> >> >> possibilities
>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>> >> >> Aleeha
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > than
>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
>>> >> >> > costs
>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I
>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
>>> >> >> > some
>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
>>> >> >> > Braille
>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
>>> >> >> > mainstream
>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > is
>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>> >> >> >> professor?
>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Deb
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>> >> >> >>> Typically
>>> >> >> >>> its
>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>> >> >> >>> Students
>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>> >> >> >>> the
>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>> >> >> >>> well.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
>>> >> >> >>> them on a
>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>> >> >> >>> since we
>>> >> >> >>> are
>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
>>> >> >> >>> class and
>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
>>> >> >> >>> display to
>>> >> >> >>> other
>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> walk
>>> >> >> >>> over
>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>> >> >> >>> professor.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >> >> >>> info for
>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> --
>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >> >> >> info for
>>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > for
>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> >> for nabs-l:
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >>
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 20:57:33 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:57:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABDhueuPs5YKpyRX-CfGn6JQsv4SDbdZC6v+1rUZiR-0d5i_6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
	<6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
	<8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>
	<CABDhueuPs5YKpyRX-CfGn6JQsv4SDbdZC6v+1rUZiR-0d5i_6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhuetybbCqg=Yb2Pj4kysZPvN9sRkkL5OjU-BbB+hTyVMJiA@mail.gmail.com>

And, apparently, I was so eager to send that message out that I didn't
correct some rather silly typos.  Sorry, folks.

On 1/13/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
> very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
> you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
> passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
> what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
> homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
>   Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
> if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
> best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
> and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
> students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
> the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
> doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
> same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
> period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
> and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
> recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
> the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
> unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
> prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
> inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
> extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
> writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
> I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
> Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
> well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
> about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
> over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
> The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
> should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
>   That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
> my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
> but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
> class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
> then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
> professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
> it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
> do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
> class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
> seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
> other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
> work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
> solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
> with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
> for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
> allowed that very beneficial luxury.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker
>> but
>>
>> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks
>> or
>> Compact flash cards.
>> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
>>
>> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next
>> class
>> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
>> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did
>> not
>> exist!
>> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that
>> amount
>> at home.
>>
>> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille
>> note
>>
>> accepting flash drives.
>> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I
>> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.
>>
>> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy
>> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
>> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
>> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students.
>> So
>> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
>> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
>> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I
>> get
>>
>> mine days later, usually.
>>
>> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper
>> on
>>
>> how unfair college
>> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed
>> to
>>
>> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
>> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
>> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see
>> slides
>>
>> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
>> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
>> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not
>> get
>>
>> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for
>> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help
>> me
>>
>> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time
>> what
>> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and
>> they had to re ship it.
>> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's
>> shoulders
>>
>> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice
>> so
>>
>> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
>> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
>>
>> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
>> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt
>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> Carly,
>> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how
>> you
>> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before
>> the
>> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But,
>> especially
>>
>> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the
>> work
>>
>> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
>> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify
>> that
>>
>> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to
>> complete
>> the assignment fairly?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Kirt,
>>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
>>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>> Carly,
>>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets,
>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
>>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without
>>>> doing
>>>>
>>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot
>>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
>>>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi, Kirt,
>>>> >
>>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class
>>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate
>>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
>>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time
>>>> >> as
>>>> >>
>>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
>>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test
>>>> >> how
>>>> >>
>>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and
>>>> >> a
>>>> >>
>>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand.
>>>> >> To
>>>> >>
>>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned
>>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
>>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>> >> Warmest regards,
>>>> >> Kirt
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Carley,
>>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my
>>>> >> > trusted
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > desktop.
>>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as
>>>> >> > long
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Ashley
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the
>>>> >> > time,
>>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
>>>> >> >> getting
>>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other
>>>> >> >> electronic
>>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
>>>> >> >> other
>>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
>>>> >> >> low
>>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
>>>> >> >> order
>>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have
>>>> >> >> already
>>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>>> >> >> classes.
>>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>>> >> >> possibilities
>>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>> >> >> Aleeha
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much
>>>> >> >> > bigger
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > than
>>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
>>>> >> >> > costs
>>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six
>>>> >> >> > hours.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I
>>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
>>>> >> >> > some
>>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
>>>> >> >> > Braille
>>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
>>>> >> >> > mainstream
>>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes
>>>> >> >> > use
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > is
>>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>> >> >> >> professor?
>>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> Deb
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>> >> >> >>> Typically
>>>> >> >> >>> its
>>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the
>>>> >> >> >>> professor
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> Students
>>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>> >> >> >>> the
>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>> >> >> >>> well.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
>>>> >> >> >>> them on a
>>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>>> >> >> >>> since we
>>>> >> >> >>> are
>>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
>>>> >> >> >>> class and
>>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
>>>> >> >> >>> display to
>>>> >> >> >>> other
>>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I
>>>> >> >> >>> could
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> walk
>>>> >> >> >>> over
>>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>>> >> >> >>> professor.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> >> >> >>> info for
>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> >> >> >> info for
>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
>>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> >> >> > info
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > for
>>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >> >> for nabs-l:
>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >> for
>>>> >>
>>>> >> nabs-l:
>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> > nabs-l:
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 21:27:07 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:27:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuetybbCqg=Yb2Pj4kysZPvN9sRkkL5OjU-BbB+hTyVMJiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
	<6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
	<8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>
	<CABDhueuPs5YKpyRX-CfGn6JQsv4SDbdZC6v+1rUZiR-0d5i_6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuetybbCqg=Yb2Pj4kysZPvN9sRkkL5OjU-BbB+hTyVMJiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAi_HYdEfaGZOA2t_DJ62UZ0tsn4qhyHv7mr3-V-E11fQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that writing an assignment in class on a Braille Note and then
emailing or printing at home is a reasonable and fair solution. This
is what I did throughout high school (I don't think I ever had
in-class writing assignments in college, but if I did I would have
used the same technique). If someone doesn't have access to any
portable notetaker or computer, then writing the assignment at home
might make sense, but if someone owns any kind of portable notetaking
device then I agree it doesn't make sense to wait to do it at home.
I too understand that we don't always have fair and equal access in
college. However, it may be cliche but no one has said it yet: On the
job you don't get extra time to complete assignments. I believe that
most college assignments can help us prepare for employment in some
way, and the more we at least attempt to do the assignments in the
same manner and the same time frame as everyone else, the better we
are prepared for the rigors of employment. I think there is a
psychological benefit, if nothing else, from doing this. It helps us
think of ourselves as competent people with something to contribute in
the workforce. There is a danger of getting used to certain
accommodations and then having difficulty performing later when we
don't have those accommodations available. Of course we have to use
some accommodations, but if we learn to get by with as few as
possible, we are better equipped to handle employment situations where
there might not be a lot of accommodations available. We might never
have "in-class writing" on the job, but many of us will likely be
expected to prepare some sort of written report on a tight deadline
and/or without much time for mental preparation. We need to have the
systems in place to handle this sort of expectation.
best,
Arielle

On 1/13/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> And, apparently, I was so eager to send that message out that I didn't
> correct some rather silly typos.  Sorry, folks.
>
> On 1/13/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley,
>>   This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
>> very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
>> you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
>> passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
>> what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
>> homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
>>   Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
>> if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
>> best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
>> and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
>> students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
>> the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
>> doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
>> same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
>> period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
>> and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
>> recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
>> the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
>> unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
>> prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
>> inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
>> extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
>> writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
>> I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
>> Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
>> well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
>> about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
>> over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
>> The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
>> should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
>>   That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
>> my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
>> but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
>> class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
>> then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
>> professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
>> it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
>> do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
>> class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
>> seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
>> other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
>> work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
>> solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
>> with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
>> for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
>> allowed that very beneficial luxury.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Kirt,
>>> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker
>>> but
>>>
>>> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks
>>> or
>>> Compact flash cards.
>>> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
>>>
>>> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next
>>> class
>>> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
>>> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did
>>> not
>>> exist!
>>> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that
>>> amount
>>> at home.
>>>
>>> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille
>>> note
>>>
>>> accepting flash drives.
>>> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so
>>> I
>>> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash
>>> drive.
>>>
>>> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its
>>> easy
>>> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
>>> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
>>> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students.
>>> So
>>> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
>>> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
>>> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I
>>> get
>>>
>>> mine days later, usually.
>>>
>>> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term
>>> paper
>>> on
>>>
>>> how unfair college
>>> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are
>>> supposed
>>> to
>>>
>>> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
>>> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
>>> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see
>>> slides
>>>
>>> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
>>> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
>>> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not
>>> get
>>>
>>> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay
>>> for
>>> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can
>>> help
>>> me
>>>
>>> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time
>>> what
>>> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail
>>> and
>>> they had to re ship it.
>>> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's
>>> shoulders
>>>
>>> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled
>>> voice
>>> so
>>>
>>> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
>>> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
>>>
>>> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
>>> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Kirt
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>
>>> Carly,
>>> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how
>>> you
>>> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before
>>> the
>>> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But,
>>> especially
>>>
>>> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the
>>> work
>>>
>>> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
>>> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify
>>> that
>>>
>>> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to
>>> complete
>>> the assignment fairly?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, Kirt,
>>>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
>>>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>>> Carly,
>>>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets,
>>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
>>>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without
>>>>> doing
>>>>>
>>>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
>>>>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hi, Kirt,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the
>>>>> > class
>>>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I
>>>>> > recreate
>>>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>>>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
>>>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time
>>>>> >> as
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
>>>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test
>>>>> >> how
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time
>>>>> >> and
>>>>> >> a
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand.
>>>>> >> To
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready
>>>>> >> learned
>>>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
>>>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>>> >> Warmest regards,
>>>>> >> Kirt
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > Carley,
>>>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>>>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my
>>>>> >> > trusted
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > desktop.
>>>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as
>>>>> >> > long
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Ashley
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ;
>>>>> >> > National
>>>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
>>>>> >> > to
>>>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the
>>>>> >> > time,
>>>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect
>>>>> >> > is
>>>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the
>>>>> >> > physical,
>>>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
>>>>> >> >> getting
>>>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other
>>>>> >> >> electronic
>>>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
>>>>> >> >> other
>>>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
>>>>> >> >> low
>>>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
>>>>> >> >> order
>>>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have
>>>>> >> >> already
>>>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your
>>>>> >> >> professor
>>>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>>>> >> >> classes.
>>>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>>>> >> >> possibilities
>>>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>>> >> >> Aleeha
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much
>>>>> >> >> > bigger
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > than
>>>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and
>>>>> >> >> > a
>>>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
>>>>> >> >> > costs
>>>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six
>>>>> >> >> > hours.
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > I
>>>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
>>>>> >> >> > some
>>>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is
>>>>> >> >> > a
>>>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
>>>>> >> >> > Braille
>>>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
>>>>> >> >> > mainstream
>>>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes
>>>>> >> >> > use
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > is
>>>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>>> >> >> >> professor?
>>>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> Deb
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>>> >> >> >>> Typically
>>>>> >> >> >>> its
>>>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the
>>>>> >> >> >>> professor
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>>>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
>>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>>> >> >> >>> Students
>>>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand
>>>>> >> >> >>> in
>>>>> >> >> >>> the
>>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>>> >> >> >>> well.
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
>>>>> >> >> >>> them on a
>>>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it
>>>>> >> >> >>> in
>>>>> >> >> >>> since we
>>>>> >> >> >>> are
>>>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
>>>>> >> >> >>> class and
>>>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
>>>>> >> >> >>> display to
>>>>> >> >> >>> other
>>>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I
>>>>> >> >> >>> could
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> walk
>>>>> >> >> >>> over
>>>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>>>> >> >> >>> professor.
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>>>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >> >> >>> info for
>>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> --
>>>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >> >> >> info for
>>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
>>>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >> >> > info
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > for
>>>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >> >> info
>>>>> >> >> for nabs-l:
>>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >> for
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> nabs-l:
>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> > for
>>>>> > nabs-l:
>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From amieelsabo at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 22:11:57 2013
From: amieelsabo at gmail.com (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 15:11:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <00c801cdf1db$09c2ddf0$1d4899d0$@gmail.com>

	Hello Ashley,

As for taking quizzes on blackboard I have had problems in doing this. I tried doing it through blackboard but, what I did was the professor would email me the quiz and, then I would do it that way and, then email back to them.

I hope this idea is a helpful one for you!



Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes

Hi all,

Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were not accessible.
Does jaws tell you what 
answer you selected as you review the question?

The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the quiz off line in a document and then email the professor.
I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.

Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 13 22:32:45 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:32:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <00c801cdf1db$09c2ddf0$1d4899d0$@gmail.com>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
	<00c801cdf1db$09c2ddf0$1d4899d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85A980C37947483BBC02E39E168144AE@OwnerPC>

Amy,
I probably will do that. Did you take your quiz in Word?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Amy Sabo
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:11 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes

Hello Ashley,

As for taking quizzes on blackboard I have had problems in doing this. I 
tried doing it through blackboard but, what I did was the professor would 
email me the quiz and, then I would do it that way and, then email back to 
them.

I hope this idea is a helpful one for you!



Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes

Hi all,

Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were 
not accessible.
Does jaws tell you what
answer you selected as you review the question?

The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the quiz 
off line in a document and then email the professor.
I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.

Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 22:36:45 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:36:45 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Using Dictionaries
Message-ID: <17C5C73D201F4F6396C5E48EE958E898@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I'm wondering if anyone has ever used Cassell's dictionaries before?
I need them for a couple of my classes, but I'm a little concerned about the 
OCR programs really bungling up the Italian or German words. Because my AS 
department doesn't have anyone who knows Italian, they would be useless in 
proofreading. How are dictionaries often scanned in for you language or 
foreign lit majors?
The online dictionaries sometimes work, but when you get some really old 
words or poetic words, they become useless.
Also other dictionaries like the Harper-Collins Italian College Dictionary 
have the IPA spellings so I can know if the es or os are open or closed. (I 
keep getting yelled at by my teacher because I keep pronouncing those 
wrong.) But if I think another language would be bad, I have no idea what it 
will make of IPA...
Any suggestion's would be greatly welcome!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs 



From carlymih at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 00:56:32 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:56:32 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] in class writing
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuetybbCqg=Yb2Pj4kysZPvN9sRkkL5OjU-BbB+hTyVMJiA@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <41A39D4B6E0F41088DE92490A16865D9@OwnerPC>
	<CANnXs0JoYuGAh8ruEZB+FT4LMVxa2ac+T8Q7t7ZveGs+w6+6wA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTc4SXajyzXoSVZvD7pZgkqTPh=0rYezA3kwHmJWx-sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE8_=nQgBBzwiWqsYY62W7JeUDBWZv_1+cNSGG2zWOR4nab_Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130111093125.01c587e8@comcast.net>
	<0AF85ABF8F3A4E5F9F9305E046D8D81F@OwnerPC>
	<25C7960E-0912-4E94-AC86-54398B61B859@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112194803.01edbb88@comcast.net>
	<4FFC7B05-62B1-4E9F-B116-F406B3BF8AF6@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130112210839.01bfae58@comcast.net>
	<6A9885AA-B757-4AE4-BEE8-13AABBD3F677@gmail.com>
	<8AD66C0B3A1148CB973518A8D2FF38A7@OwnerPC>
	<CABDhueuPs5YKpyRX-CfGn6JQsv4SDbdZC6v+1rUZiR-0d5i_6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuetybbCqg=Yb2Pj4kysZPvN9sRkkL5OjU-BbB+hTyVMJiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130113165237.01c7ecd0@comcast.net>

Hi, Kirt,

I just hope to clarify a little, I always do everything in my 
personal power to turn in in-class writings composed at home on the 
same day, never lagging for days because indeed, that alters the 
physiology of said assignment.
Do you forgive me, Kurt?
for doay, CarManwaring wrote:
>And, apparently, I was so eager to send that message out that I didn't
>correct some rather silly typos.  Sorry, folks.
>
>On 1/13/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ashley,
> >   This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
> > very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
> > you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
> > passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
> > what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
> > homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
> >   Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
> > if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
> > best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
> > and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
> > students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
> > the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
> > doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
> > same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
> > period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
> > and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
> > recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
> > the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
> > unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
> > prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
> > inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
> > extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
> > writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
> > I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
> > Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
> > well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
> > about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
> > over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
> > The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
> > should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
> >   That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
> > my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
> > but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
> > class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
> > then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
> > professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
> > it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
> > do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
> > class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
> > seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
> > other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
> > work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
> > solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
> > with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
> > for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
> > allowed that very beneficial luxury.
> >   Best,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Kirt,
> >> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker
> >> but
> >>
> >> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks
> >> or
> >> Compact flash cards.
> >> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
> >>
> >> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next
> >> class
> >> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
> >> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did
> >> not
> >> exist!
> >> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that
> >> amount
> >> at home.
> >>
> >> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille
> >> note
> >>
> >> accepting flash drives.
> >> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I
> >> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.
> >>
> >> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy
> >> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
> >> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
> >> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students.
> >> So
> >> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
> >> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
> >> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I
> >> get
> >>
> >> mine days later, usually.
> >>
> >> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper
> >> on
> >>
> >> how unfair college
> >> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed
> >> to
> >>
> >> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
> >> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
> >> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see
> >> slides
> >>
> >> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
> >> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
> >> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not
> >> get
> >>
> >> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for
> >> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help
> >> me
> >>
> >> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time
> >> what
> >> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and
> >> they had to re ship it.
> >> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's
> >> shoulders
> >>
> >> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice
> >> so
> >>
> >> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
> >> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
> >>
> >> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
> >> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
> >>
> >> Ashley
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kirt
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> >>
> >> Carly,
> >> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how
> >> you
> >> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before
> >> the
> >> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But,
> >> especially
> >>
> >> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the
> >> work
> >>
> >> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
> >> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify
> >> that
> >>
> >> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to
> >> complete
> >> the assignment fairly?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi, Kirt,
> >>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
> >>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
> >>>> Carly,
> >>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets,
> >>>> though.
> >>>>
> >>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
> >>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without
> >>>> doing
> >>>>
> >>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot
> >>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
> >>>> curious how you think that is fair?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Hi, Kirt,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class
> >>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate
> >>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
> >>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
> >>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
> >>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
> >>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time
> >>>> >> as
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
> >>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test
> >>>> >> how
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and
> >>>> >> a
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand.
> >>>> >> To
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned
> >>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
> >>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
> >>>> >> Warmest regards,
> >>>> >> Kirt
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> >>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > Carley,
> >>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
> >>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my
> >>>> >> > trusted
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > desktop.
> >>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
> >>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as
> >>>> >> > long
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Ashley
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
> >>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
> >>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
> >>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
> >>>> >> > to
> >>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the
> >>>> >> > time,
> >>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
> >>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
> >>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
> >>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
> >>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
> >>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
> >>>> >> >> getting
> >>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
> >>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other
> >>>> >> >> electronic
> >>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
> >>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
> >>>> >> >> other
> >>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
> >>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
> >>>> >> >> low
> >>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
> >>>> >> >> order
> >>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
> >>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have
> >>>> >> >> already
> >>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
> >>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
> >>>> >> >> classes.
> >>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
> >>>> >> >> possibilities
> >>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
> >>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
> >>>> >> >> Aleeha
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >> >> > Hi all,
> >>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much
> >>>> >> >> > bigger
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > than
> >>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
> >>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
> >>>> >> >> > costs
> >>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six
> >>>> >> >> > hours.
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > I
> >>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
> >>>> >> >> > some
> >>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
> >>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
> >>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
> >>>> >> >> > Braille
> >>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
> >>>> >> >> > mainstream
> >>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes
> >>>> >> >> > use
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > is
> >>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
> >>>> >> >> > Arielle
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
> >>>> >> >> >> professor?
> >>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >> Deb
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
> >>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
> >>>> >> >> >>> Typically
> >>>> >> >> >>> its
> >>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the
> >>>> >> >> >>> professor
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
> >>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
> >>>> >> >> >>> writing.
> >>>> >> >> >>> Students
> >>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
> >>>> >> >> >>> the
> >>>> >> >> >>> writing.
> >>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
> >>>> >> >> >>> well.
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
> >>>> >> >> >>> them on a
> >>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
> >>>> >> >> >>> since we
> >>>> >> >> >>> are
> >>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
> >>>> >> >> >>> class and
> >>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
> >>>> >> >> >>> display to
> >>>> >> >> >>> other
> >>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
> >>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I
> >>>> >> >> >>> could
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> walk
> >>>> >> >> >>> over
> >>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
> >>>> >> >> >>> professor.
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
> >>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>> >> >> >>> info for
> >>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >> --
> >>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
> >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>> >> >> >> info for
> >>>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
> >>>> >> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>>> >> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>> >> >> > info
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> > for
> >>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
> >>>> >> >> >
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> >> >> for nabs-l:
> >>>> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> >> > for nabs-l:
> >>>> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> >> > for nabs-l:
> >>>> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> >> for
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> nabs-l:
> >>>> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> > nabs-l:
> >>>> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 03:36:44 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:36:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC>
	<9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <31B458B2D2AE436884E732A138ACC34D@OwnerPC>

Brandon,
This would be a great solution. I'll try that in a class if I need it.
You have your book with you electronically; what do you read it on?
If I had a doc file, I'd certainly do as you and search for that segment. 
Great idea.

How did you do the pop quizzes? In the past, I did it orally.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I don't think I replied to this note 
before.
I couldn't search for quotes since  I did not have a electronic book with 
me; apparently you did.
cool. Did your book also have coresponding pages?

Thanks
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both presented
in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale than
the normal students.
I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of his
office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
do a search for words in my word document.
Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
where her boots lay in the mud..."
I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
book.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 03:38:50 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:38:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21>
	<C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <089462EF48474FB197FD51E98015185E@OwnerPC>

Brandon,
also thanks for this tip on converting to text; actually I tried this 
before; sometimes it worked, other times it did not; I guess the publisher 
locked the file somehow. I'm glad to hear you got all doc files as those are 
more accessible to us.
What college do you attend?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
when you open the PDF go to
"save as other"
hit text
Enter the name and location and there you go.
Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be accommodating,
I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi,
If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set up to
where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or by
sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and then
if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may be
able to find the paragraph easier.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in 
> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give 
> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken 
> down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the 
> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the 
> dss office.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both 
> presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop 
> quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale 
> than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of 
> his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From amieelsabo at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 03:56:35 2013
From: amieelsabo at gmail.com (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:56:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
Message-ID: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>

Hello all,
 
I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since I
have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
 
So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
 
 
Thanks,
amy

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 04:04:28 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:04:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amy,

I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
an iphone.

On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
> Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since
> I
> have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>
> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>
>
> Thanks,
> amy
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 05:22:28 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:22:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com>

i would get an iPhone - partly because i'm a mac addicted, partly because it is t he only phone  that is really, really accessible nowadays.
if you don't want one you may use android, but expect to have 25% less accessibility.

att

mauricio
On Jan 13, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Amy,
> 
> I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
> on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
> not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
> an iphone.
> 
> On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
>> Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since
>> I
>> have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>> 
>> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> amy
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 05:28:33 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:28:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <887021B4312B4679BAD49277F6AA82E5@OwnerPC>

the haven is not produced anymore, unfortunately; I heard it was a good 
phone.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Amy Sabo
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:56 PM
To: NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones

Hello all,

I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since I
have a free upgrade that I got back in November.

So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?


Thanks,
amy
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 05:29:06 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:29:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001cdf218$1349c130$39dd4390$@com>

I would disagree with the iPhone being the only accessible phone.
Google has made great strides with their Android platform and all Android
phones using version 4.0 and later are fully touch screen accessible.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
Almeida
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

i would get an iPhone - partly because i'm a mac addicted, partly because it
is t he only phone  that is really, really accessible nowadays.
if you don't want one you may use android, but expect to have 25% less
accessibility.

att

mauricio
On Jan 13, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Amy,
> 
> I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone 
> on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did 
> not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get 
> an iphone.
> 
> On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding 
>> the Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase 
>> it since I have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>> 
>> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> amy
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind 
> of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog 
> Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that 
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal 
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
> 40gmail.com


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nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 05:33:35 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:33:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D76D608A663454B8B581764837F9035@OwnerPC>

Hello Amy,
I assume you don't want a smart phone. everyone suggests I phones. But some 
of us want something cheaper without the bells and whistles of a I phone.
This is something that really bothers me. Companies produce talking phones, 
discontinue them and
do not have a replacement. I also went to the verizon store and as someone 
else said I did not see
the haven, nor any talking phones that read menus. all I found was some lg 
phones which announced the phone number as it came in.
So, Amy, you may want to look at lg phones and ask which of them talk if you 
are looking for a simple phone, which I think you are. The haven was a 
simple phone that did texts but did not connect to the internet.
Hope you find an accessible phone!
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Amy Sabo
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:56 PM
To: NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones

Hello all,

I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since I
have a free upgrade that I got back in November.

So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?


Thanks,
amy
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 05:37:31 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:37:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301cdf219$40677a80$c1366f80$@com>

Hello Amy:

The Haven is unfortunately no longer in production.
However, if you want to stick with Samsung then I suggest either the S3 or
the Note 2; both are Samsung Galaxy models.
The Motorola HD is also a nice phone and so is the new Android DNA by HTC.
I personally prefer the Android platform because it offers me flexibility
for the things that I like to do as a tech.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:57 PM
To: NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones

Hello all,
 
I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since I
have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
 
So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
 
 
Thanks,
amy
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 06:03:31 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:03:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf218$1349c130$39dd4390$@com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com><CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com><FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com>
	<000001cdf218$1349c130$39dd4390$@com>
Message-ID: <988C9385676B4158893086240B60968D@OwnerPC>

and some of us want plain phones without getting online.
the haven was  a good phone; it was simple and had buttons for those  of us 
who find buttons most user friendly.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chun Chao
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:29 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

I would disagree with the iPhone being the only accessible phone.
Google has made great strides with their Android platform and all Android
phones using version 4.0 and later are fully touch screen accessible.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
Almeida
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

i would get an iPhone - partly because i'm a mac addicted, partly because it
is t he only phone  that is really, really accessible nowadays.
if you don't want one you may use android, but expect to have 25% less
accessibility.

att

mauricio
On Jan 13, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Amy,
>
> I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
> on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
> not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
> an iphone.
>
> On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding
>> the Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase
>> it since I have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>>
>> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> amy
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog
> Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
> 40gmail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From whetstonekjw at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 14 11:54:44 2013
From: whetstonekjw at yahoo.com (Kimarie Whetstone)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:54:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1358164484.90922.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

http://www.balinger-loable.de/images/stories/rcccy.php !

From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:04:49 2013
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:04:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
In-Reply-To: <85A980C37947483BBC02E39E168144AE@OwnerPC>
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC>
	<00c801cdf1db$09c2ddf0$1d4899d0$@gmail.com>
	<85A980C37947483BBC02E39E168144AE@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj7agDzNCPP17-9K_mQyMz1-qz0bvz5ckgLyO9gBu6iZww@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashley,
As a person who worked in my college's Blackboard department for some
time I know that if the quizzes are multiple choice then radio buttons
will be present. This means you will be able to select the answer you
want by hitting the spacebar. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Amy,
> I probably will do that. Did you take your quiz in Word?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amy Sabo
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:11 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>
> Hello Ashley,
>
> As for taking quizzes on blackboard I have had problems in doing this. I
> tried doing it through blackboard but, what I did was the professor would
> email me the quiz and, then I would do it that way and, then email back to
> them.
>
> I hope this idea is a helpful one for you!
>
>
>
> Hugs,
> amy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>
> Hi all,
>
> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were
> not accessible.
> Does jaws tell you what
> answer you selected as you review the question?
>
> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the quiz
> off line in a document and then email the professor.
> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 14:06:36 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:06:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
References: <3EDC0907A83B43F7A01AC0ADC420844A@OwnerPC><00c801cdf1db$09c2ddf0$1d4899d0$@gmail.com><85A980C37947483BBC02E39E168144AE@OwnerPC>
	<CAB4OJj7agDzNCPP17-9K_mQyMz1-qz0bvz5ckgLyO9gBu6iZww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8063F9F90CD0447E84704E8C4D237004@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Also, even if it is not multiple choice, as some of my quizzes usually are, 
there are usually edit boxes where you can type in your answers, such as in 
a fill in the blank quiz. There are combo boxes for matching quizzes where 
you can go into the combo box and select the answer you want from the combo 
box, so quizzes are relatively straight-forward and accessible.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes


Dear Ashley,
As a person who worked in my college's Blackboard department for some
time I know that if the quizzes are multiple choice then radio buttons
will be present. This means you will be able to select the answer you
want by hitting the spacebar. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Amy,
> I probably will do that. Did you take your quiz in Word?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amy Sabo
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:11 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>
> Hello Ashley,
>
> As for taking quizzes on blackboard I have had problems in doing this. I
> tried doing it through blackboard but, what I did was the professor would
> email me the quiz and, then I would do it that way and, then email back to
> them.
>
> I hope this idea is a helpful one for you!
>
>
>
> Hugs,
> amy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley 
> Bramlett
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard administered quizzes
>
> Hi all,
>
> Another quandary. Class will have quizzes online for homework.
> Are quizzes online accessible? I use jaws. Last time I heard quizzes were
> not accessible.
> Does jaws tell you what
> answer you selected as you review the question?
>
> The quizzes would be multiple choice and true/false.
> If I don’t take it online, what would I do? I’m thinking just take the 
> quiz
> off line in a document and then email the professor.
> I’m sure with blackboard being so common, some of you have done it before.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 13:27:36 2013
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:27:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <988C9385676B4158893086240B60968D@OwnerPC>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com><CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com><FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com><000001cdf218$1349c130$39dd4390$@com>
	<988C9385676B4158893086240B60968D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7743BE9831E145BD844AA2CEE242D3DE@userPC>

Yes I like how it let us go threw the menus independently.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

and some of us want plain phones without getting online.
the haven was  a good phone; it was simple and had buttons for those  of us 
who find buttons most user friendly.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chun Chao
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:29 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

I would disagree with the iPhone being the only accessible phone.
Google has made great strides with their Android platform and all Android
phones using version 4.0 and later are fully touch screen accessible.

C.C. Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
Almeida
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones

i would get an iPhone - partly because i'm a mac addicted, partly because it
is t he only phone  that is really, really accessible nowadays.
if you don't want one you may use android, but expect to have 25% less
accessibility.

att

mauricio
On Jan 13, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Amy,
>
> I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
> on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
> not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
> an iphone.
>
> On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding
>> the Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase
>> it since I have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>>
>> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> amy
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog
> Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
> 40gmail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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net 


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m



From beckyasabo at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 21:19:49 2013
From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (rebecca sabo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:19:49 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] setting up the observation of my math tutor
Message-ID: <CAN8eqxh5WvXg2hUs_SqR8+pVZxZtb8ee9zmy6BJrU3ppgjZETA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lindsey,
I found out my math class does starts on January 22nd from one to two
fifty on Tuesday and Thursdays.  I have another class at three thirty
to four fourty five on that day .  So on the 29th you can observe me
and my math tutor any time before one on my college campus in the
libary.
Let me no if that works for you and what time'
Thank you again.
Becky Sabo


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 21:54:28 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:54:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] setting up the observation of my math tutor
In-Reply-To: <CAN8eqxh5WvXg2hUs_SqR8+pVZxZtb8ee9zmy6BJrU3ppgjZETA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN8eqxh5WvXg2hUs_SqR8+pVZxZtb8ee9zmy6BJrU3ppgjZETA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ABCC584EA51B478881A43E64613B1EAA@OwnerPC>

you sent this to the list by accident I believe.

-----Original Message----- 
From: rebecca sabo
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:19 PM
To: Lindsey Pacheco
Subject: [nabs-l] setting up the observation of my math tutor

Hi Lindsey,
I found out my math class does starts on January 22nd from one to two
fifty on Tuesday and Thursdays.  I have another class at three thirty
to four fourty five on that day .  So on the 29th you can observe me
and my math tutor any time before one on my college campus in the
libary.
Let me no if that works for you and what time'
Thank you again.
Becky Sabo

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From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 22:55:31 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: *Additional Information* Western Region Student
	Seminar.
Message-ID: <000001cdf2aa$424913e0$c6db3ba0$@com>

Hello All Students:

For those of you who would like to attend the Western Student Seminar but
cannot make the trip to Las Vegas then stay tuned.
The event coordinator is looking into having the Western Student Seminar
streamed via the internet.

C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB

-----Original Message-----
From: Rena Smith [mailto:realhappygirl1 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 11:02 AM
To: 'Chun Chao'
Subject: RE: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

I am hoping to get this event streamed.
Rena

-----Original Message-----
From: Chun Chao [mailto:zerone1683 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:41 PM
To: Rena Smith
Subject: FW: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

Hello Rena:

Someone on the NABS listserv is wondering about having this event streamed
for those who wish to attend but cannot make the trip.

C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call me
at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge to you
and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this.
> Hi all,
>  here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any questions.
>   I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of 
> Nevada is putting on!
>
>  Darian
>
> Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar
>
> When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013
>
> Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and
>
> Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.
>
> Phone: (702) 732-9100
>
> College Students:
>
> Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.
>
> Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes 
> in your scholastic life.
>
> Network with students from all over the west coast
>
> Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.
>
> Parents:
>
> Meet other parents and network
>
> Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.
>
> Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.
>
> Get your student connected with Mentors.
>
> All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer 
> (National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the 
> opportunity to  enjoy an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun 
> activities within the hotel.
>
> Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -
>
> RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and 
> phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
> email:
> swstudentseminar at gmail.com
>  or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or realhappygirl1 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40au
> dioaccessfm.com
>



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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 23:08:16 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:08:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: *Additional Information* Western Region
	StudentSeminar.
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf2aa$424913e0$c6db3ba0$@com>
References: <000001cdf2aa$424913e0$c6db3ba0$@com>
Message-ID: <4391F6D626414D098DD0A7D98259A955@OwnerPC>

great; let us know. if it is streamed, let us know what time.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chun Chao
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 5:55 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: blindkid
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: *Additional Information* Western Region 
StudentSeminar.

Hello All Students:

For those of you who would like to attend the Western Student Seminar but
cannot make the trip to Las Vegas then stay tuned.
The event coordinator is looking into having the Western Student Seminar
streamed via the internet.

C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB

-----Original Message-----
From: Rena Smith [mailto:realhappygirl1 at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 11:02 AM
To: 'Chun Chao'
Subject: RE: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

I am hoping to get this event streamed.
Rena

-----Original Message-----
From: Chun Chao [mailto:zerone1683 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:41 PM
To: Rena Smith
Subject: FW: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

Hello Rena:

Someone on the NABS listserv is wondering about having this event streamed
for those who wish to attend but cannot make the trip.

C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
Region Student Seminar.

For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call me
at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge to you
and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this.
> Hi all,
>  here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any questions.
>   I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of
> Nevada is putting on!
>
>  Darian
>
> Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar
>
> When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013
>
> Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and
>
> Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.
>
> Phone: (702) 732-9100
>
> College Students:
>
> Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.
>
> Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
> in your scholastic life.
>
> Network with students from all over the west coast
>
> Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.
>
> Parents:
>
> Meet other parents and network
>
> Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.
>
> Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.
>
> Get your student connected with Mentors.
>
> All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
> (National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
> opportunity to  enjoy an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun
> activities within the hotel.
>
> Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -
>
> RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
> phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
> email:
> swstudentseminar at gmail.com
>  or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or realhappygirl1 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40au
> dioaccessfm.com
>



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From zerone1683 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 23:49:54 2013
From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:49:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
	Region Student Seminar.
Message-ID: <000001cdf2b1$db6e1410$924a3c30$@com>

Hello All Blind Students:

Someone on the listserv had mentioned that they would like to help out with
the streaming of the Western Students Seminar.

"For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call me
at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge to you
and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this."

For whoever is willing to volunteer, would you please contact the event
coordinator directly?

Contact information:
Rena Smith
Phone: 702-228-4217
Email: realhappygirl1 at gmail.com

Sincerely,
C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 23:53:24 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:53:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <50f1925f.638fec0a.1ea8.3f1b@mx.google.com>
References: <50f1925f.638fec0a.1ea8.3f1b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <720651AE2D504CF1ABFFCCF2E59B7725@OwnerPC>

Sophie,
I think this is a good suggestion. I  hope version
8 also can read pdfs. I'd like to take them to class on the braillenote for 
reference.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:41 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Ashley, if you have a braillenote apex with Keysoft 9.1 or
higher, it can read PDFs. So you can save the PDF to a flash
drive and read it on your braillenote!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:20:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save
it as text.
I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
it.

Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and
never  will
give me a doc file.
Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a
flash drive to
read on my braillenote  in class.
They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have
not invested
the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
fight with
the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format such
as rtf or
doc files.
But they don't.

This community college does not go out of its way to help and
accommodate
students.
I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
books. I try
and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
another
class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
there is
nothing you can do.
If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind
me. The
only reason
I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
stated she
spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.

I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to
discuss and I
never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I
should find an
instructor willing to work with me. I
have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to
her. I think
all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
videos to be
described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
isn't required
to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told me
they don't
have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t auditorily.

Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things,
I think
discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options
and email
her that.

It?�s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you
email
professors it should remain between you and them period.
I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other
students have
this right.
No third party should be involved without your consent or
knowledge. I am
tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
classes,
that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
this again, I
will do that.

Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
have
written proof of it.

Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
when you open the PDF go to
"save as other"
hit text
Enter the name and location and there you go.
Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
accommodating,
I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
first.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi,
If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
set up to
where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by
heading, or by
sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number,
and then
if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you
may be
able to find the paragraph easier.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors


Brandon,
Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them.
Students in
that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before,
they give
me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book
is broken
down by chapters or parts.
Each part or chapter is a large file.
So its impossible to look at a book as others do.

I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with
the
reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.

I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and
go to the
dss office.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hello,
I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy
and he was
very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse
load and he
was also an international star. He said I would probably fail
his class
because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board.
He also
said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he
both
presented
in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told
my
Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the
pop
quizzes.
On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper
grading scale
than
the normal students.
I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
could work
something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department
to one of
his
office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
class
started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives
for him to
choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was
willing to do.
I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things
were going
well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
that was
one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are
reading? I just
do a search for words in my word document.
Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
looked to
where her boots lay in the mud..."
I search for that and it only takes a second to search through
the whole
book.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs


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iggs%40gmail.com


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r%40gmail.com








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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 15 00:01:01 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:01:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCSKgLaeE_SiSQ0FTFN5uhB2wyMBgqhP57CvcvVW2pdSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC><BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl><2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com><0B9DAA9E-90E9-4FDF-84A8-115759162430@gmail.com><CAFja7FbLRdzF8+apemL6TkDtqU9AEAfeysSpD3pZucvo=Kopkg@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJCC50HZ_XDm_VgAKxfDDQ8ZfthpYmFkNeMPBNdcZFH38A@mail.gmail.com><CC6C2B8BE709428CBFF18A42EC72F68A@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCSKgLaeE_SiSQ0FTFN5uhB2wyMBgqhP57CvcvVW2pdSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7408DFDFB55446E8965C567C022EE71F@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
If leaving students out of conversations is common, to me this breaks our 
right to privacy.
I thought universities staff could not share info amongst each other.
To respond to this question/comment:
Are you sure you absolutely need the accommodation memo? Most of the
accommodations you say are on it, like using alternate forms for
notetaking, is something you can just do without your professor's
permission. The only thing you might need a DSS memo for is testing
accommodations, but I'd think you'd be surprised how many professors
will just work things out with you and not care much about the memo.


Many professors do work things out and also I agree  you can do many things 
like taking notes in an alternate way or reading your book in an alternate 
format withoout dss approving or the professor approving. After all, 
professors assign the work, its up to you to get it done.

Yes, the memo is needed though. It is a requirement at this large community 
college for all students to receive accomodations. I just have to request 
the memo and pick it up. It often doesn't help though; professors lose them; 
they either honor your accomodations or not; it doesn't seem to matter 
whether you got a paper listing your accomodations.
I find I have to remind professors to give me electronic handouts or to read 
things on screen, not just point to them anyway. So I just hand out memos to 
do my part and comply with the school system, not because it helps me get 
accomodations from professors.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi Ashley,
Yes, I think my friend might have had grounds to sue if he felt so
inclined. To be fair, maybe the DSS counselor was saying it would
break confidentiality to talk about my friend's situation in front of
me, but then she should have explained everything to my friend
privately some other time.
I'm hoping my old university is worse than average, but I do think
that leaving students out of conversations is fairly common.
Are you sure you absolutely need the accommodation memo? Most of the
accommodations you say are on it, like using alternate forms for
notetaking, is something you can just do without your professor's
permission. The only thing you might need a DSS memo for is testing
accommodations, but I'd think you'd be surprised how many professors
will just work things out with you and not care much about the memo.
After all, the memos are mostly for students who don't have obvious
disabilities to prove to the professor that a student is actually
disabled. If you're blind and use a cane or Braille or special
equipment this shouldn't be a problem.
Arielle

On 1/12/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Arielle,
> What a story. That is terrible. If that student wanted to, they had
> grounds
>
> for suing I think.
> I use dss and find them a necessary part of my school studies; sometimes a
> necessary evil though.
> I need them to get accomodations. Every semester I am at this community
> college, their policy is that
> I get my memo of accomodation, MOA, from them.
> I give that to professors. It has accomodations like extended time on
> exams,
>
> use of other devices for notetaking, electronic handouts, and
> option to record lectures. Alternate formats of textbooks is on it, but as
> I
>
> said before, I rarely get a format I can use.
>
> Anyway, that's too bad your college had a heavy hand i n it all by
> contacting
> professors for materials because blind students can get that themselves.
> I would have hated this. If professors want to have conversations with
> dss,
>
> they should include the blind student.
> I was at George mason university, GMU,  before marymount university.
> At that time the dss did not talk to professors much and let the blind
> student do most advocacy. Sure they had accomodation memos and had a
> testing
>
> room for students to use, but it was up to the blind student to distribute
> the accomodation memo and
> get needed material from professors.
> Now things have changed from what I heard. Now, they talk to professors
> for
>
> you and distribute
> letters for you. I don't know whether gmu goes as far as requesting all
> materials a professor will use, but it would not surprise me if theydid.
> That is just so so custodial, not to mention time inefficient. Professors
> can email us documents. No need to send to the dss office and the dss send
> them to us.
>
> And suggesting someone drop a class is utter discrimination. How terrible.
>
> Anyway, I'll just find another class.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hi all,
> Marc, I completely agree with you, but unfortunately I suspect that
> talking to professors about students without students is the norm
> rather than the exception among DSS offices. I could be wrong, but say
> that based on my own experience with my former university's office,
> whose counselors would repeatedly have discussions with my professors
> without making any effort to include me. I know of at least two
> conversations and don't know how many others happened that I was not
> told about. They also sent letters to all blind students' professors
> at the beginning of each semester asking for detailed information
> about all the materials used in that professor's class, instead of
> trusting the blind student to get them that information. I found this
> practice not only disrespectful by leaving out the student, but also
> inefficient because sometimes professors would give them supplementary
> info that I didn't really need converted because it was already
> accessible or not critical to the class. If I had been involved in
> those email conversations it would have reduced their workload
> significantly. However, the worst was what happened to my friend, when
> the DSS counselor urged him to drop a class and take it with a
> different professor without giving him any explanation. When my friend
> and I (and a few other NFB folks) confronted them about their
> practices of engaging our professors in discussions without us, and I
> asked why they had urged my friend to drop his class, the DSS
> counselor said "I am not allowed to tell him why he needed to drop the
> class, because of confidentiality". So apparently it is more important
> to protect the privacy of a professor's comments about a blind student
> than it is to disclose full information to a student that could affect
> their academic choices?
> I suspect the problem with overbearing DSS staff is about ADA
> lawsuits. DSS people are motivated to make sure they don't get sued
> for being under-accommodating, so they are motivated to maintain
> control of accommodation-related conversations as much as possible. If
> they get questions from professors and direct the professor to talk to
> the student, as they should, they risk having the issue go unresolved
> and ending up with a lawsuit. By staying in control of those
> conversations the DSS staff are ensuring they come off as being as
> accommodating as possible so they can't get blamed later on for
> problems. Unfortunately this attitude undermines the autonomy and
> rights of blind students.
> What I will say is that there is a trade-off between resources and
> autonomy when you do anything through a DSS office, and it's up to you
> how you want to handle that trade-off. For instance, if you prefer
> Braille for certain classes and the DSS provides Braille, then it
> might be worth the hassle and loss of autonomy to go ahead and work
> with them. However, if your DSS is incredibly custodial like my old
> one was and/or if you would be fine with audio or E-text copies of
> books from BookShare or the publisher, or if the DSS doesn't provide
> much help to begin with, (i.e. no Braille) then you can forgo DSS
> help. In my own case, after my run-in with DSS late in my junior year,
> I stopped working with them and instead obtained my books from
> Learning Ally or scanned them. No professor had any issue with my not
> being involved with DSS anymore. However by that time I was done with
> most of my science classes so Braille was less critical. If it had
> happened earlier in my education I might have stuck it out with DSS.
> In either case, just know that DSS is one of many options you have.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/12/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marc,
>>
>> I did mention that it wasn't right for him to ignore her, and do see
>> the counselor as more at fault than the professor.  We can't really
>> say if it was infantilizing or not because it isn't necessarily the
>> professor's job to know exactly how to do things for us in the
>> appropriate way, and some profs do view the office as not the
>> custodian of disabled students, but a resource for advice.  The
>> professor should be able to use the resources including the ds office
>> that are available to him, but it is then up to the ds office to
>> either offer helpful advice and to inform the prof that it's really
>> not that different from working with a sighted student, or totally
>> feed into the professor's negative mindset or intimidation by not
>> saying, "Here, why don't we let the student tell you herself?"  My
>> office urges professors to contact them with any questions that
>> concern accomodations they have granted the student, because they,
>> after all, are the deciding factor in what assistance we can and
>> cannot receive.  I do see the prof not returning Ashley's call as rude
>> and agree with you there, but this is no different from a good 80 to
>> 90 percent of people we come into contact with who are scared of the
>> idea of working with blind people simply because they don't know.  It
>> sounds like Ashley has had problems with her ds office before though,
>> (Not providing textbooks in a reasonable format like word or text
>> sounds ridiculous to me, and they really have no excuse for not trying
>> to meet her halfway since they're supposed to be there to help her),
>> and I agree the counselor should have tried to bring her into the
>> conversation in a more professional way, or at least directed the prof
>> back to Ashley herself with his questions.  If there was any
>> infantilizing treatment, I'd guess it was more on the counselor's part
>> than the prof's because the counselor really should have known better.
>>  I'm not saying he is totally not to blame, but I was just saying that
>> this is nothing new and instead of treating it by blaming him for
>> approaching the situation this way when he might have felt really
>> intimidated because of ignorance the focus should be on changing his
>> expectations and outlook on working with a blind student.
>>
>> Maybe I'm in a different situation though.  The one time I know of
>> that a professor talked with my ds office without me was when they
>> were working to braille my stats book way in advance.  A few weeks ago
>> he asked them what they felt would be appropriate ways to handle using
>> work sheets so that he could give me accessible options to choose
>> from.  I was initially told this by my counselor, but he emailed me
>> the next afternoon and gave me the same options so I felt like he was
>> trying to make sure the choices he gave me would work no matter which
>> one I chose, not trying to decide something for me behind my back.  On
>> the other hand, I had a prof last semester who was horrible and who
>> never contacted the DS office about anything, not even my materials to
>> make sure they were okay or anything.  He was really ignorant and even
>> made some rude remarks in class about my blindness, and although I
>> tried to educate him by example in class he wouldn't budge the whole
>> semester.  Even during finals week he wouldn't fill out the form for
>> sending his exam to them and I had to get the office to personally
>> contact him in order for them to get his exam in time.  This is why I
>> approve of professors contacting the disabilities office because odds
>> are that if they're taking the time to do so it's because they want
>> advice or want to know what they can do in their teaching to be
>> helpful to us as students.  But like I said, it's up to the
>> disabilities office to either make that professor feel more aware of
>> the capabilities of blind students and prepared to teach them as well
>> as their sighted pupils, or not educate or positively advise at all.
>> Sounds to me like that was what really happened here.
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kaiti wrote,
>>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>>> tidbit to you in a better way.
>>>
>>> I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
>>> person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
>>> consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
>>> found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
>>> ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
>>> some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre
>>> if
>>> he
>>> was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously
>>> doubt
>>> it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some
>>> as
>>> the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students
>>> and
>>> the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
>>>
>>> The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take
>>> place
>>> without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
>>> issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
>>> councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
>>> participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
>>> active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who
>>> the
>>> grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
>>> "nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he
>>> should
>>> approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached
>>> by
>>> a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
>>> authority, the student.
>>>
>>> I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away,
>>> but
>>> what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
>>> inappropriate.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>> On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
>>>> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
>>>> to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
>>>> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
>>>> what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
>>>> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
>>>> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
>>>> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
>>>> office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
>>>> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
>>>> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
>>>> tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
>>>> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
>>>> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
>>>> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
>>>> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
>>>> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
>>>> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
>>>> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
>>>> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
>>>> out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
>>>> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
>>>> in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
>>>> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
>>>> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
>>>> screen.
>>>>
>>>> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
>>>> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
>>>> pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
>>>> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
>>>> whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
>>>> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
>>>> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
>>>> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>>>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>>>>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>>>>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
>>>>> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
>>>>> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
>>>>> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
>>>>> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
>>>>> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
>>>>> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
>>>>> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
>>>>> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
>>>>> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
>>>>> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
>>>>> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
>>>>> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
>>>>> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
>>>>> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
>>>>> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
>>>>> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
>>>>> interesting and informative.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Save
>>>>>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> save
>>>>>> the file as a text file.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>>>>> professional
>>>>>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read
>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>> JFW
>>>>>>> as:
>>>>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot
>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>>>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible
>>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own
>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your
>>>>>>>> knowledge,
>>>>>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> only reason
>>>>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>>>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>>>>>> videos
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she
>>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> email her that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> this right.
>>>>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or
>>>>>>>> knowledge.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>>>>> hit text
>>>>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>>>>> accommodating,
>>>>>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is
>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>>> Misty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them.
>>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before,
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board.
>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>>>>> scale
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are
>>>>>>>>> reading?
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>> book.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 15 00:02:02 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:02:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS4266EE9C8A0C9AF07C0FEEBDC280@phx.gbl>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC>
	<BLU402-EAS4266EE9C8A0C9AF07C0FEEBDC280@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <32E33F376A844C03939AA3FB8743E024@OwnerPC>

Hi,
but do you know if this conversation program works on locked files? I would 
think not.
I assume the cloud means the robo site.

-----Original Message----- 
From: wmodnl wmodnl
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:12 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

You can send the PDF files to the cloud to convert them to microsoft word or
audio files, broken-down in chapters, or sections.  You can visit:
www.robobraille.org.
There are simple upload instructions for doing this.  Finally, you can open
the files in a OCR program such as Kurswheil or Open-book, to save them as
word files.
Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:36 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Brandon,
> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they give
> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is broken
> down by chapters or parts.
> Each part or chapter is a large file.
> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>
> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>
> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to the
> dss office.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>
> Hello,
> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he was
> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and he
> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his class
> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He also
> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
> presented
> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
> quizzes.
> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading scale
> than
> the normal students.
> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could work
> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one of
> his
> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him to
> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to do.
> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were going
> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that was
> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I just
> do a search for words in my word document.
> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He looked to
> where her boots lay in the mud..."
> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the whole
> book.
> Thanks,
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 00:25:36 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:25:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
Message-ID: <50f4a216.012f650a.27d0.ffffd729@mx.google.com>

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 15 00:26:57 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:26:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAD35628745F4D12889955A7E0C2F273@OwnerPC><9F03142D236D457880B6497F51626886@BrandonsLaptop2><4E59DBFA28254F3984CBBFE82284FFC4@OwnerPC><E3A17827A1114E9A97B72C35424ABEDB@acerd37f251f21><C43708F529F2441EB038EE17590C3E40@BrandonsLaptop2><651DBA05890E42278B6F12023802AB50@OwnerPC><BLU402-EAS5958667FC3CDB577E1738DDC280@phx.gbl><2F3BCC2E370645D1AD1E4E3D81616C08@acerd37f251f21><CALAYQJAV9xrKBhmKtsNrE7EQgPmwjvuwUHxRjAE9XHaKUW1UVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZr7OjjTBvpM0BFFooHc+gJy_WbNkCC099e_95U9ue7Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A0BE9192B2848488085DEB538CEB36B@OwnerPC>

So are you saying the school provides tactile diagrams for you?
What's your major?
Sounds like a nice school. I do ask classmates about films because the dss 
doesn't have that sort of service you described.
Sometimes classmates are helpful, other times not.

ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors

Hi Ashley,

I completely agree with Arielle.  Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
to the ds office.  I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
what to do.  I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone.  He probably just
wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
office is there for the professors too).  However, he should have at
least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
tidbit to you in a better way.  Going to his class a few times might
show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
though.

Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said.  My
office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents.  They also offer
a few different services for dealing with pictures and such.  Most of
the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine.  For diagrams in my
books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
out in advance.  For videos shown in class the office offers services
including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
in cases where we watch films with subtitles.  I used a reader when
one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
very good about reading the text and describing important details on
screen.

If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
pictures on the board and such during class.  As long as they sit
close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
whisper a description.  Also, I have had a few instances where the
professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
Studying with others is extremely beneficial.

On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley and all,
> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest that
> dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him win. What
> I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of his class
> and see what the assignments are like and if you are able to keep up
> with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot of faith in
> the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind students don't
> really need this content to keep up. Also, as others have suggested,
> if you read the material before class, you may not need to keep up
> with the paragraph or page number the others are reading in class in
> order to participate in discussion. Instead of letting the professor
> decide for you whether or not his class is accessible, go to a few
> classes and you can make an informed choice based on what you know
> about how you learn and what problems you can solve on your own. If
> after an honest attempt you still find you are having trouble keeping
> up, then you can drop his class knowing that you in fact made the
> right choice. On the other hand, you might find the class is more
> accessible than he is making it out to be and that it is in fact
> interesting and informative.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu in the
>> free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is not in the
>> Save
>> As box though. It is its own separate item in the menu, and it lets you
>> save
>> the file as a text file.
>> Hth,
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>
>>
>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the professional
>>> or full addition of Adobe.  You can not do this with the traditional
>>> Adobe
>>>
>>> reader.   Make sure the computer has 9 or 10.  The link will read buy
>>> JFW
>>> as:
>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc.  Most DS offices have
>>> the
>>> program and can make this conversion for you.  Hope this helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it as
>>>> text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot change
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>> will
>>>> give me a doc file.
>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a flash
>>>> drive
>>>>
>>>> to read on my braillenote  in class.
>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have not
>>>> invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also, they could
>>>> fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more accessible format
>>>> such as rtf or doc files.
>>>> But they don't.
>>>>
>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>> accommodate
>>>>
>>>> students.
>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>> I
>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to take
>>>> another class and goes to your dss counselor without your  knowledge,
>>>> there is nothing you can do.
>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>> The
>>>>
>>>> only reason
>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and stated
>>>> she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss and
>>>> I
>>>> never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation. I should
>>>> find
>>>>
>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I
>>>> have never found this counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I
>>>> think all she'll say is the challenges involved and when I ask for
>>>> videos
>>>>
>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the college
>>>> isn't
>>>>
>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she told
>>>> me
>>>> they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to take i t
>>>> auditorily.
>>>>
>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>> think
>>>> discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other options and
>>>> email her that.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since  all other students
>>>> have
>>>> this right.
>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or knowledge. I
>>>> am
>>>>
>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone does
>>>> this again, I will do that.
>>>>
>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I have
>>>> written proof of it.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>>> list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>> "save as other"
>>>> hit text
>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>> accommodating,
>>>> I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are set
>>>> up
>>>> to
>>>> where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter, by heading, or
>>>> by
>>>> sentence, so this may help with at least finding the page number, and
>>>> then
>>>> if you go by sentence or if there is a paragraph setting then you may
>>>> be
>>>> able to find the paragraph easier.
>>>> Hth,
>>>> Misty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them. Students in
>>>>> that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on page 14.
>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before, they
>>>>> give
>>>>>
>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book is
>>>>> broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with the
>>>>> reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go to
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and he
>>>>> was
>>>>> very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his Corse load and
>>>>> he
>>>>> was also an international star. He said I would probably fail his
>>>>> class
>>>>> because he used lots of pictures and he wrote lots on the board. He
>>>>> also
>>>>> said that I would not benefit from the top notch pictures he both
>>>>> presented
>>>>> in front of the class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my
>>>>> Disability counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop
>>>>> quizzes.
>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>> scale
>>>>> than
>>>>> the normal students.
>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we could
>>>>> work
>>>>> something out. I took the head of the Accessibility department to one
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> his
>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after class
>>>>> started and we gave solutions. We also presented alternatives for him
>>>>> to
>>>>> choose from. He then gave us his opinions and what he was willing to
>>>>> do.
>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things were
>>>>> going
>>>>> well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that class and that
>>>>> was
>>>>> one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are reading? I
>>>>> just
>>>>> do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>> looked
>>>>> to
>>>>> where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through the
>>>>> whole
>>>>> book.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 15 00:28:43 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:28:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country*
	WesternRegion Student Seminar.
In-Reply-To: <000001cdf2b1$db6e1410$924a3c30$@com>
References: <000001cdf2b1$db6e1410$924a3c30$@com>
Message-ID: <4407D6BBDAE24411B0E3518D368E2067@OwnerPC>

Hi,
that was david's quote fyi; the guy who does the online radio shows.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chun Chao
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:49 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: blindkid
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* 
WesternRegion Student Seminar.

Hello All Blind Students:

Someone on the listserv had mentioned that they would like to help out with
the streaming of the Western Students Seminar.

"For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call me
at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge to you
and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this."

For whoever is willing to volunteer, would you please contact the event
coordinator directly?

Contact information:
Rena Smith
Phone: 702-228-4217
Email: realhappygirl1 at gmail.com

Sincerely,
C.C. Alan
Northern Nevada NFB



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From adrimpc80 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 01:25:42 2013
From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:25:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
In-Reply-To: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
References: <33B073F4-5C0C-4C5B-9F0A-FA26DCC1D085@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFV4M-2YxSV+B3+i8WOcYbiRRAu+TRN2aMfF1-SxHwV3NCF+UQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jordan and all participants,
I took the GRE in its paper-based form. In addition to a sighted
reader, I was given a tape with the questions and a Braille version of
the exam. I was not able to register online.

Good luck with your exam!

Adriana P.

2013/1/11, Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> For anyone who has taken the GRE:
> Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the
> difference?
> Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
> What material does the GRE cover?
> How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
> Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is
> requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little
> discriminatory to me.
> Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> MN-ABAS President
>
> Sent from my iPod
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Adriana Pulido
Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad
Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida.


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 02:07:39 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:07:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <7743BE9831E145BD844AA2CEE242D3DE@userPC>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<FDEEB683-4D69-41F8-A820-53F463600BA3@gmail.com>
	<000001cdf218$1349c130$39dd4390$@com>
	<988C9385676B4158893086240B60968D@OwnerPC>
	<7743BE9831E145BD844AA2CEE242D3DE@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaSDWdg-AbyQDaGTjHEK-eOMwAHdN4_byJyoGK9J_ZmSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amy, Hi Amy,

If you're looking for something similar to the Haven with buttons and
a simple layout, the Envy phones are still in production and do a
decent job, especially 3 I think.  I know some people who have it and
love how simply it's set up.

I personally advocate for the IPhone, but then again I do tend to use
it more as a mini-computer for things like checking emails as I'm
walking from one class to another or using it as a gps/music
player/metronome and tuner for practicing music than actually talking
or texting.

Good luck.  :)

On 1/14/13, Rania Ismail LMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I like how it let us go threw the menus independently.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
> Bramlett
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:04 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones
>
> and some of us want plain phones without getting online.
> the haven was  a good phone; it was simple and had buttons for those  of us
>
> who find buttons most user friendly.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chun Chao
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:29 AM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones
>
> I would disagree with the iPhone being the only accessible phone.
> Google has made great strides with their Android platform and all Android
> phones using version 4.0 and later are fully touch screen accessible.
>
> C.C. Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
> Almeida
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phones
>
> i would get an iPhone - partly because i'm a mac addicted, partly because
> it
> is t he only phone  that is really, really accessible nowadays.
> if you don't want one you may use android, but expect to have 25% less
> accessibility.
>
> att
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Amy,
>>
>> I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
>> on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
>> not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
>> an iphone.
>>
>> On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding
>>> the Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase
>>> it since I have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
>>>
>>> So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> amy
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>> of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog
>> Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
>> 40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan 15 02:29:47 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:29:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [HIMS-News] Fw: Announcing Sense Notetaker v7.0 patch
 2 and Learning Ally support.
Message-ID: <auto-000093761872@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>From: <mailto:hims.jenny at gmail.com>Jenny Axler
>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:35 PM
>To: <mailto:hims-notetakers at googlegroups.com>hims-notetakers at googlegroups.com
>Subject: Announcing Sense Notetaker v7.0 patch 2 and Learning Ally support.
>
>
>HIMS is Pleased to Release Sense Notetaker v7.0 
>patch 2 featuring Support for Learning Ally
>
>The main purpose of this release is to address 
>issues with various digital book services. This 
>release fixes problems downloading from the 
>updated BARD site as well as problems 
>downloading from the BookShare website. In 
>addition, we are very excited to announce that 
>Learning Ally content is now supported on the 
>notetakers. Please note: Voice Sense cannot 
>support Learning Ally content due to the 
>inability to create the partition necessary to 
>house the key on the 1GB flash disk.
>
>Note: While you may notice other small bug fixes 
>in this release, most known bugs and issues will 
>be addressed in the next major notetaker upgrade 
>to be released sometime in the spring. There is 
>also one known issue with the BARD site that 
>will be addressed at that time: If you access a 
>list of search results containing more than 250 
>books, the “Go to Braille” link may not work 
>correctly if accessed from the first page of 
>results. If you navigate to the second page of 
>results, and then choose this link, it works properly.
>
>Also note: Instructions for setting up your 
>notetaker to access Learning Ally content are 
>attached to this message. HIMS will handle all 
>technical support regarding this process, so 
>please contact HIMS, Inc. with any questions or problems you have.
>
>WARNING!! After upgrading the notetaker 
>firmware, all system settings are restored to 
>their defaults. If you have made changes to the 
>system settings, you may wish to back them up 
>before upgrading, so you can restore them after 
>the upgrade is complete. Please use the 
>“Backup/Restore” option in the 
>“Utilities” menu to back up your option 
>settings. We also strongly advise backing up 
>your files. Though the upgrade itself should not 
>destroy data on the internal flash disk, users 
>should also consider backing up their files in 
>case unexpected problems arise during the 
>upgrade process. Please use the File Manager to 
>copy your data to an external storage device such as an SD card or USB drive.
>
>To Braille Sense PLUS users running 6.1 or 
>earlier, this is especially important for you, 
>as the flash disk may disappear after the 
>upgrade and require reformatting before you can access it.
>
>Special notice to Braille Sense OnHand, Braille 
>Sense PLUS, Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY, and Voice Sense QWERTY users:
>
>If you are upgrading from a version below 6.2, 
>you must reformat your flash disk due to the 
>creation of a partition for housing the NLS and 
>Learning Ally keys. Please make sure to back up 
>your data before formatting. Voice Sense users 
>need not reformat as NLS and Learning Ally 
>content playback cannot be supported on these 
>models due to the limited size of the internal flash disk.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Upgrading using the Online Method:
>
>To upgrade using the online method, follow the steps below.
>
>1. Connect your notetaker to AC power, and 
>ensure you have an active internet connection.
>
>2. From the main “Program” menu, press 
>“U” to open the “Utilities” menu.
>
>3. Press “U” again for “Upgrade Firmware”.
>
>4. When prompted, “Upgrade Online?” press  “Enter”.
>
>5. The notetaker checks for new firmware. If it 
>finds it, you are prompted, “Are you sure you 
>want to upgrade?” The default is “Yes”.
>
>6. Press “Enter” to initiate the download and upgrade process.
>
>7. When the files are downloaded, the upgrade 
>process begins. While the unit is upgrading, 
>progress is displayed on the Braille display in 
>the form of a percentage and progress beeps are 
>heard. Please do not press buttons or power off 
>the unit during the upgrade process as this may 
>result in an incomplete installation.
>
>8. When the upgrade is complete, the unit 
>reboots and places you in the main “Program” 
>menu. Press “Space-V” (FN-V) to verify your 
>notetaker is running firmware version 7.0 build 01/08/2013.
>
>Upgrading using the Offline Method:
>
>To upgrade using the Offline method, please 
>download the firmware using the links below.
>
>Voice Sense:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Voice Sense QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_QX_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_QX_US_V700_130108.zip
>
>Braille Sense PLUS:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_QX_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_QX_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Braille Sense OnHand:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_OnHand_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_OnHand_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Braille Sense U2:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Braille Sense U2 QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_QWERTY_US_V700_130108.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_QWERTY_US_V700_130108.zip 
>
>
>
>
>Note: There is no upgrade available for Braille 
>Sense Classic beyond version 6.2
>
>
>
>Follow the instructions below to upgrade your Sense notetaker
>
>1. Download the zip file containing the firmware to your PC.
>
>2. Extract the zip file on your PC; the 
>extracted folder should contain three files for 
>Braille Sense PLUS, Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY, 
>Braille Sense OnHand, Voice Sense QWERTY, and 
>Voice Sense. (The Braille Sense U2 and Braille 
>Sense U2 QWERTY upgrade contains only 2 files)
>
>3. Copy the files and paste them into the root 
>of an external storage device such as an SD card or USB thumb drive.
>
>4. Connect the external storage device to the Sense Notetaker.
>
>5. Connect your notetaker to AC power.
>
>6. From the main “Program” menu, press 
>“U” to open the “Utilities” menu.
>
>7. Press “U” again for “Upgrade Firmware”.
>
>8. When prompted, “Upgrade Online?” press 
>“Space-4” (Down arrow) to move to “Offline”, and press “Enter”.
>
>9. The notetaker checks for new firmware on your 
>external storage devices. If it finds it, you 
>are prompted, “Are you sure you want to upgrade?” The default is “Yes”.
>
>10. Press “Enter” to initiate the upgrade process.
>
>11. The upgrade process begins. While the unit 
>is upgrading, progress is displayed on the 
>Braille display in the form of a percentage, and 
>progress beeps are heard. Please do not press 
>buttons or power off the unit during the upgrade 
>process as this may result in an incomplete installation.
>
>12. When the upgrade is complete, the unit 
>reboots and places you in the main “Program” 
>menu. Press “Space-V” (FN-V) to verify your 
>notetaker is running firmware version 7.0 build 01/08/2013.
>
>
>
>If you have questions or problems, please 
>contact HIMS Technical Support at 512-837-2000 
>or email <mailto:support at hims-inc.com>support at hims-inc.com
>
>
>
>
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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan 15 02:38:18 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:38:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <000001cdf20b$26b376b0$741a6410$@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DJCO=nJRQFhjB2a7TUCZYzw-H+ArsWWn11iVn43q7KV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000093762362@mailfront3.g2host.com>

I believe that this is true.  One one of our lists, in the past 
couple days, someone said they bought a new one on-line, e-bay I think.

Dave

At 10:04 PM 1/13/2013, you wrote:
>Hi Amy,
>
>I believe that the Samsung Haven was discontinued.  Hopefully, someone
>on  this list can verify, but I heard it from several sources and did
>not see it at the Verizon store when I went in November.  I had to get
>an iphone.
>
>On 1/13/13, Amy Sabo <amieelsabo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I hope that everyone is doing good. I'm having a hard time in finding the
> > Samsung haven on Verizon's web site to find it so, I can purchase it since
> > I
> > have a free upgrade that I got back in November.
> >
> > So, could someone send me the link on where to purchase this phone?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > amy



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 03:37:58 2013
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:37:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [musictlk] a Performing Arts related scholarship
	opportunity:
In-Reply-To: <02d401cdf2d1$582b93f0$0882bbd0$@com>
References: <02d401cdf2d1$582b93f0$0882bbd0$@com>
Message-ID: <004201cdf2d1$b76441a0$262cc4e0$@gmail.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: musictlk [mailto:musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordy
Stringer
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:35 PM
To: 'Music Talk Mailing List'; ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [musictlk] a Performing Arts related scholarship opportunity:
Importance: High
Sensitivity: Confidential

Greetings from the Performing Arts Division-

We hope this message finds you well!

Below you will find some information courtesy of VSA Arts

 

VSA Arts, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people with
disabilities learn through, participateing  in and enjoying  the arts, is
looking for young playwrights!

High school student playwrights could win a $750 scholarship, and $350 for
their school.

 

To enter, write a one-act play about disability issues, with a script of
less than 40 pages. Your play can be a drama, a comedy, a musical - be
creative!

Submit your entry by June 1, 2013.

 

To be eligible for the scholarship, the author must be a high school student
in grades 9th through 12th (or equivalent). Younger authors (6th through 8th

grade or equivalent) can enter to win $350 for their school, but are not
eligible for the scholarship. The contest is open to students with and
without

disabilities.

 

. For questions or more information, or to request application documents in
an alternate format, contact VSA Arts at (202) 416-8898, or 

vsainfo at kennedy-center.org

 

Good luck!

 

Jordy D. Stringer

Student, Business Enterprise Program: BOSMA Enterprises 

President, Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind

Changing What it means to be blind.

Phone: 317-643-1890

E-mail: jordystringer83 at gmail.com

"Traveling often requires determination, energy, fortitude, and
resourcefulness; but exploration also demands intuition, faith, a tolerance
for uncertainty, the willingness to embrace change, and the recognition that
the object being sought cannot always be defined with precision and will
sometimes lead to unpredictable consequences."

Marc Maurer

 

_______________________________________________
musictlk mailing list
musictlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
musictlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/musictlk_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%4
0gmail.com



From rloew at ETS.ORG  Tue Jan 15 18:20:33 2013
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth C)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:20:33 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Question
Message-ID: <8EA502864A9DCA49858B3C4E76F45D8A1DBFA837@BN1PRD0712MB635.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

As Mary Fernandez said, I'm with the ETS Office of Disability Policy, and I regularly attend NABS and NFB functions and lurk on this list.

As for registering online:  It's true that so far test takers requesting accommodations can't register on line.  This is because accommodations requests have to be reviewed, which is a separate process.  We're working on an integrated online registration system that will enable test takers needing accommodations to register online, with a "detour" for accommodations review.  I'm not sure when this will be operational, but we know it's a need and we're addressing it.

I think others have answered your original questions, Jordan.  If you have additional questions or want more detail, please feel free to contact me on- or off-list.

Also, I'll be at the Washington Seminar as usual.  Anyone with questions about accommodations for GRE or other ETS tests (TOEFL, Praxis, TExES) is welcome to talk to me there.  See (some of) you then --

Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Office of Disability Policy, ETS
fax: 609-683-2220
rloew at ets.org


2013/1/11, Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> For anyone who has taken the GRE:
> Did you take the computer-based test or the paper-based test?  What's the
> difference?
> Did you get JAWS on the computer-based test?
> What material does the GRE cover?
> How was the test/accommodations regestration process?
> Did you register for the test online? The site says that if one is
> requesting accommodations one cannot.  This seems odd and a little
> discriminatory to me.
> Has NFB in general had any problems with GRE?
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> MN-ABAS President
>
> Sent from my iPod




From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 19:56:17 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:56:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Math symbols
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaxBvyTJxajSP2A0Fe8tL3jzHJYTF181Dwo+yH=xS0=1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm starting my stats class today, and the professor gave me some of
the materials to look over before the class to make sure they were
accessible on my laptop.  The worksheets were fine, but I came across
a "Macron" symbol and didn't know what it was.  I took it to my prof
and he said it was actually the symbol for sigma.  Now that I know
this, I'm wondering what other symbols JAWS might have funky names for
and what these symbols might be.  Also, I'm wondering how I would go
about writing them in equasions.  My professor said that if there
really isn't a good way to do it he'd be fine with me writing out
something like "Sigma" within the equasion, but if I can get the
symbols to work that would be great.   Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

-- 
Kaiti


From brice.smith319 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 21:41:00 2013
From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:41:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Getting Photo Off Webpage with Jaws
Message-ID: <CAL=h+uiEv6Bfmp3Mh+wUKAsr5WhwqxdOq_6tgjDG4LCR523GbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Does anyone know how to download a photograph from a website using
Jaws? Let's say there's a story online with a photograph on the page
you need to download. You know it's possible to download it, but you
can't find it with Jaws and don't know how to capture it. You thought
pressing Shift plus F10 might let you save it, but you still don't
know how to focus on the photo to "save as." What can you do?
Thanks,
Brice


From stephmmellor at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 22:48:55 2013
From: stephmmellor at gmail.com (Steph Mellor)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:48:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions
Message-ID: <130601cdf372$80b1a700$8214f500$@gmail.com>

Hey, 

 

I am studying for the M. A. T.'s and I am looking to network for any study
tips and materials. My goal is to become a Vocational Rehabilitation
Counselor. I have an under graduate degree in social work and am applying
for a masters at a different university, both of which are in Washington
state.  I am looking for places to get accessible study materials. Any help
would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks,

Stephanie Mellor


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Jan 15 23:06:53 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:06:53 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions
In-Reply-To: <130601cdf372$80b1a700$8214f500$@gmail.com>
References: <130601cdf372$80b1a700$8214f500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64594E@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

What's the M. A. T?
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Steph Mellor [stephmmellor at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:48 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions

Hey,



I am studying for the M. A. T.'s and I am looking to network for any study
tips and materials. My goal is to become a Vocational Rehabilitation
Counselor. I have an under graduate degree in social work and am applying
for a masters at a different university, both of which are in Washington
state.  I am looking for places to get accessible study materials. Any help
would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Stephanie Mellor

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com




From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 23:12:00 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:12:00 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple of Simple Android Questions Regarding
	Accessibility
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwr-295juzmXADw221Be+WP1UDJiC19LBVamxcjHVpsug@mail.gmail.com>

What are the phones running Android software that offer the most accessibility?

Is the hardware of a phone such as having a keyboard still important?

Can someone get an older phone with proper hardware specifications and
expect the same level of accessibility with the newest Android
software as a newer phone with the latest version of Android running?

Thanks. Email me off list if you wish.


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 23:15:30 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:15:30 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Female roommates wanted
Message-ID: <CACUFQdzHyzhX549m0oKNYRdv8tGEeV13q5S_HDeTmb2KkCZ7Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a friend attending Washington Seminar for the first time. By
the time I learned that she could come, I already had my room
situation figured out.

She is very nice, in her early 20's, and attending a community college
in hopes of pursuing psychology or physical therapy. She is a massage
therapist in a family run spa as well. If you are a female needing a
roommate, please email me off list and tell me a few things about
yourself, and I will connect you guys. She would prefer to room with
people staying until Thursday, however I have an open space in my room
Wednesday night that she can move to, so if you need a roommate and
are only staying until Wednesday, I'd still like to hear from you.

Thanks so much.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 23:25:53 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:25:53 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64594E@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <130601cdf372$80b1a700$8214f500$@gmail.com>
	<C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64594E@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwZOcr0qiQm0HcZ4=1SbzBq1ctLhU1y3Dw42Rryz8tdKQ@mail.gmail.com>

The MAT is a grad school entrance exam. There are a few such as the
GRE or MCAT or LSAT. From what I have seen, the MAT is required for
business schools and maybe some other things.

Cindy

On 1/15/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> What's the M. A. T?
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Steph Mellor
> [stephmmellor at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:48 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions
>
> Hey,
>
>
>
> I am studying for the M. A. T.'s and I am looking to network for any study
> tips and materials. My goal is to become a Vocational Rehabilitation
> Counselor. I have an under graduate degree in social work and am applying
> for a masters at a different university, both of which are in Washington
> state.  I am looking for places to get accessible study materials. Any help
> would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stephanie Mellor
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 23:47:19 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:47:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs presents: National Federation of the Blind
	Scholarship Call
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjNSvT8OvhZtHYkFpmrwx1oE-L2JUxZX91CiPcTPHTHTbg@mail.gmail.com>

 Fellow students:
     It is time once again for the monthly NABS Membership Committee
 conference call. This month we bring you a call all about scholarships
 - and who could not use one of those? Patti Chang, National
Federation of the Blind
 Scholarship Chair will be on the call to talk about the scholarships
 that the NFB is giving out at the national level. To find out more
 about the NFB National scholarship program prior to the call, you may
 visit the following link: http://www.nfb.org/scholarships
 To sum it up:
 When?: Wednesday, Janurary 16, 2012; 8:00 PM EST.
 What?: A conference call on the topic of the  NFB National
scholarship program.
 Where?: NABS Conference Call Line: (605) 475-6700. Code 7869673


 We look forward to seeing everyone on the call!

 Your NABS Membership Committee


 --
 Darian Smith


 Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
 via your phone bill.

 The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

 http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


 “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
 made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
 These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
 knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
 -Darian Smith


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 00:03:16 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:03:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
 Region Student Seminar.
In-Reply-To: <ae89643369e75b28e9335c11d4c30271.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
References: <CAEwUdjOtizKZEwASJNj+J=o6O7gxc_AbUno37JLzSv8BMb5sUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae89643369e75b28e9335c11d4c30271.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjMRvyPjdNn3ZRzmbbDFLrY+pJShbc7n_dvjzZ3NDc=W0g@mail.gmail.com>

Contacting Rena would be the best thing, though I highly suspect that
due to the  resources the affiliate is putting into this, I don't see
being able to fund anyone's trip out. Those interested in going are
looking at making their own  way.
  Best,
  Darian

On 1/11/13, djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
<djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com> wrote:
> For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
> fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
> stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
> stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call
> me at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge
> to you and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this.
>> Hi all,
>>  here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any
>> questions.
>>   I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of
>> Nevada is putting on!
>>
>>  Darian
>>
>> Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar
>>
>> When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013
>>
>> Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and
>>
>> Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.
>>
>> Phone: (702) 732-9100
>>
>> College Students:
>>
>> Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.
>>
>> Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
>> in your scholastic life.
>>
>> Network with students from all over the west coast
>>
>> Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.
>>
>> Parents:
>>
>> Meet other parents and network
>>
>> Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.
>>
>> Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.
>>
>> Get your student connected with Mentors.
>>
>> All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
>> (National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
>> opportunity to  enjoy
>> an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun activities within the
>> hotel.
>>
>> Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -
>>
>> RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
>> phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
>> email:
>> swstudentseminar at gmail.com
>>  or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or
>> realhappygirl1 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40audioaccessfm.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 00:13:14 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:13:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] *for any and all students across the country* Western
 Region Student Seminar.
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjMRvyPjdNn3ZRzmbbDFLrY+pJShbc7n_dvjzZ3NDc=W0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjOtizKZEwASJNj+J=o6O7gxc_AbUno37JLzSv8BMb5sUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae89643369e75b28e9335c11d4c30271.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
	<CAEwUdjMRvyPjdNn3ZRzmbbDFLrY+pJShbc7n_dvjzZ3NDc=W0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-5442716845918742739@unknownmsgid>

David, do you have any broadcasters in the NV area who may be able to
stream it? Someone may also be able to record it for future
dissemination.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 15, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Contacting Rena would be the best thing, though I highly suspect that
> due to the  resources the affiliate is putting into this, I don't see
> being able to fund anyone's trip out. Those interested in going are
> looking at making their own  way.
>  Best,
>  Darian
>
> On 1/11/13, djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
> <djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com> wrote:
>> For an event this important, it should be streamed. If I had the money to
>> fly to NV, I'd personally volunteer to do it. I hope someone can still
>> stream it. If anyone associated with this important student event wants to
>> stream it, and wants help getting a server together for doing this, call
>> me at 516 281 5950 or email me since I can get you a server at no charge
>> to you and more. I so wish I could be there to help with this.
>>> Hi all,
>>> here is an updated flyer with contact info should you have any
>>> questions.
>>>  I hope you can make it to this exciting seminar that the NFB of
>>> Nevada is putting on!
>>>
>>> Darian
>>>
>>> Striving for Independence: Southwest Regional Student  Seminar
>>>
>>> When: March. 22nd - March 24th 2013
>>>
>>> Where: Fortune Inn 325 E Flamingo Rd, (At Paradise and
>>>
>>> Flamingo,) Las Vegas, NV 89169 US.
>>>
>>> Phone: (702) 732-9100
>>>
>>> College Students:
>>>
>>> Learn  about your  rights as a  Student.
>>>
>>> Find out  why school clubs can be just as important as school classes
>>> in your scholastic life.
>>>
>>> Network with students from all over the west coast
>>>
>>> Learn  about our NFB Training Centers.
>>>
>>> Parents:
>>>
>>> Meet other parents and network
>>>
>>> Find out  how you can help your student get ready for college.
>>>
>>> Learn about what good rehabilitation training can do for your student.
>>>
>>> Get your student connected with Mentors.
>>>
>>> All of this and much more, including Guest Speaker, Dr. Marc Maurer
>>> (National Federation of the Blind President), banquet, and the
>>> opportunity to  enjoy
>>> an evening in Las Vegas on “the Strip” and fun activities within the
>>> hotel.
>>>
>>> Note: All students under the age of 18 must be -
>>>
>>> RSVP: Please send your full name and contact information (email and
>>> phone number) to be alerted once pre-registration becomes available
>>> email:
>>> swstudentseminar at gmail.com
>>> or contact Rena Smith at 702-228-4217 or
>>> realhappygirl1 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks22180%40audioaccessfm.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
>
>
> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
> via your phone bill.
>
> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>
> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>
>
> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
> -Darian Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 01:08:40 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:08:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Comments on Belgian
 Euthanasia of Deaf Men Losing Sight
References: <4C785AE92339A84D80E58139B523D9852D20CF8D@BLUPRD0711MB424.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2203558556723343046@unknownmsgid>

Fellow Federationists,

Here is a press release I received today from our national office.  I'm a
bit surprised that I had not heard this story from any other news source in
this country, but I guess our media did not find this important. Thankfully
nothing of this sort is happening in our country, but it is still (at least
to me) shocking, disturbing and frightening to read this in 2013. With all
this said, here is the press release we sent out commenting on this tragic
event:

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
*Date:* January 15, 2013, 10:21:44 AM EST
*To:* Undisclosed recipients:;
*Subject:* *National Federation of the Blind Comments on Belgian Euthanasia
of Deaf Men Losing Sight*

  *FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE*

* *

*CONTACT:*

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org

* *

*National Federation of the Blind Comments on
Belgian Euthanasia of Deaf Men Losing Sight*



*Baltimore, Maryland (January 15, 2013):* The National Federation of the
Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>, the largest organization of blind people in
the United States with over 50,000 members, including many deaf-blind
individuals, commented today on the state-sanctioned death by lethal
injection of deaf twins in Belgium.  Upon learning that they were also
going blind, the deaf twins sought and were granted euthanasia.



Dr. Marc Maurer <http://www.nfb.org/marc-maurer-bio>, President of the National
Federation of the Blind<http://www.facebook.com/NationalFederationoftheBlind>,
said: “This disturbing news from Belgium is a stark example of the common,
and in this case tragic, misunderstanding of disability and its
consequences.  Adjustment to any disability is difficult, and deaf-blind
people face their own particular challenges, but from at least the time of
Helen Keller it has been known that these challenges can be met, and the
technology and services available today have vastly improved prospects for
the deaf-blind and others with disabilities.  That these men wanted to die
is tragic; that the state sanctioned and aided their suicide is
frightening.”



The National Federation of the Blind needs your support to ensure that
blind children get an equal education, to connect blind veterans with the
training and services they need, and to help seniors who are losing vision
continue to live independent and fulfilling lives. To make a donation,
please go to www.nfb.org.





*###*





*About the National Federation of the Blind*


The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) is the oldest, largest, and most
influential nationwide membership organization of blind people in the
United States.  Founded in 1940, the NFB advocates for the civil rights and
equality of blind Americans, and develops innovative education, technology,
and training programs to provide the blind and those who are losing vision
with the tools they need to become independent and successful.  We need
your support.  To make a donation, please go to www.nfb.org.

From kobycox at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 02:47:05 2013
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:47:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
Message-ID: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>

Hello All,
I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
Each one of you right back soon,
Koby.

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 16 03:04:33 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:04:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
References: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <6A5FA7B888EF4E4F867C0E3388336DBF@OwnerPC>

Koby,
This is a very sensative situation and I suspect there is a lot to this 
story we don't know. You must have decided to move out for several reasons. 
I recall you posted in the past about your mother's wishes to control your 
bank account and take away your debit card.

I suggest you tell them sooner than later. Talk to
which ever parent you feel more open with. For me, its my dad; he will 
listen to me and my side of things without cutting me off or getting mad.
He rarely gets upset; he is laid back.
My mom is protective plus she wants things her way so its harder to come to 
her with suggestions or changes.

Then tell the other parent. I f you want to get it over with, just say to 
them your decission.
For instance say.

"Mom and dad, there is a decision I've made because of blank. I am moving in 
with blank and blank lives in blank.
I can be reached at blank address if you need me."
Insert your own names and info where blank is written.

I really think you should keep the lines of communication open. You never 
know when you might need their help especially for money since you are not 
working full time yet. living on your own is expensive which you will soon 
find out, even with a roommate sharing the costs.

Good luck.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Koby Cox
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:47 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all

Hello All,
I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
Each one of you right back soon,
Koby.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan 16 03:18:47 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:18:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Survey to Establish Event Planner Sensitivity
Message-ID: <auto-000093928914@mailfront3.g2host.com>




From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 05:10:09 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 00:10:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <6A5FA7B888EF4E4F867C0E3388336DBF@OwnerPC>
References: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
	<6A5FA7B888EF4E4F867C0E3388336DBF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb+aDtJeV0VU9a8st7V0rGD6zP3KpUb47=_QLPdT+hRHg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Ashley is right on.  This is something that takes a lot more thought
and should be handled delicately.  You definitely don't want to burn
those bridges because you'll never know when you'll need mom or dad to
help out.  However, after you've worked it out, (and yes, talked with
the parent who will be more calm and understanding), then take it from
there.  You can also ask that parent what they think, assuming they
really are the calmer of the two.  Just make sure you fully think this
through before you act on it.

On 1/15/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Koby,
> This is a very sensative situation and I suspect there is a lot to this
> story we don't know. You must have decided to move out for several reasons.
>
> I recall you posted in the past about your mother's wishes to control your
> bank account and take away your debit card.
>
> I suggest you tell them sooner than later. Talk to
> which ever parent you feel more open with. For me, its my dad; he will
> listen to me and my side of things without cutting me off or getting mad.
> He rarely gets upset; he is laid back.
> My mom is protective plus she wants things her way so its harder to come to
>
> her with suggestions or changes.
>
> Then tell the other parent. I f you want to get it over with, just say to
> them your decission.
> For instance say.
>
> "Mom and dad, there is a decision I've made because of blank. I am moving in
>
> with blank and blank lives in blank.
> I can be reached at blank address if you need me."
> Insert your own names and info where blank is written.
>
> I really think you should keep the lines of communication open. You never
> know when you might need their help especially for money since you are not
> working full time yet. living on your own is expensive which you will soon
> find out, even with a roommate sharing the costs.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Koby Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:47 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
>
> Hello All,
> I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
> In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
> regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
> stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
> In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
> once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
> Each one of you right back soon,
> Koby.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 05:13:59 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:13:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
References: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <8446F144FA8A46A5A5D5974B671869AD@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I always find that communication fully is always the best thing.
I tell my parents just about everything and anyone I'm in a relationship 
with. It makes for very little drama and a very trusting and open life 
stile.
I would tell them asap, but I would make it very formal. As long as you are 
above 18 there is nothing they can do. You have the upper hand, but you 
should let them know that you will be learning some very important life 
lessons living away from your home and to please feel free to call you, but 
you would like to spread your wings and fly.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Koby Cox
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:47 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all

Hello All,
I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
Each one of you right back soon,
Koby.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 16 13:00:19 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:00:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
References: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS80FCBF6630A9E50002F07FDC2C0@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPad

On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:47 PM, "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
> I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
> In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
> regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
> stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
> In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
> once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
> Each one of you right back soon,
> Koby.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.comGood morning,
If you are of age, you can do whatever you want.  You are in an interesting situation.  It is good to take risks; however, there is a level of respect you should abide buy regarding Parents.  Have a good day, good luck.



From qtiffany1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 16:51:57 2013
From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (Tiffany)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:51:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Control Your E-mail with Your Voice
Message-ID: <mjhdc25h4f4c6sc87nxve01l.1358355007056@email.android.com>




Sent via my Samsung Transform™ Ultra from Boost Mobile

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Control Your E-mail with Your Voice
From: Mollyne Honor <mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US>
To: LBPH_INFO-L at LISTSRV.MSDE.STATE.MD.US
CC: 

Please contact the manufacturer with any questions regarding this product.

 

 

Control Your E-mail with Your Voice: A Look at the Upcoming Talkler App from Talkler Labs

Janet Ingber

A new, innovative app called Talkler, which allows users to read and manage e-mails with voice commands, is about to make its debut. This mainstream app was created by Talkler Labs, LLC, and during its development, the staff has been using it with VoiceOver to ensure accessibility. Jeffrey Korn, Talkler Labs CEO, said, "Whether you're sighted or not, Talkler is easy to use, and it's remarkably helpful. We are aiming to come out with a version that is optimized specifically for visually impaired users." He added that the optimized version will be released not long after the initial version's launch. The free version of Talkler plays a brief advertisement every so often (similar to how the free version of the Pandora app works); to eliminate the ads, users can pay $1.99 per month.

Both voice controls and on-screen gestures can be used with the app. Korn explained, "Talkler takes advantage of what we're calling 'Talkler TapAnywhere,' which are these on-screen gestures that you can implement by tapping anywhere near the middle of the screen without having to hunt for a tiny button. You can tap to pause the playback and tap again to resume. You can swipe anywhere to move from e-mail to e-mail. We developed the use of the pinching gesture, sort of like crumpling a piece of paper and tossing it in the trash. This is the gesture for deleting an e-mail."

Regarding Talkler's speech, Korn explained, "Talkler performs all of its speech recognition on the iPhone itself. Most other systems have to send each utterance out to the Cloud, then process and interpret the utterance in the Cloud, and then make a return trip back to the iPhone with the interpreted text.

Talkler, on the other hand, does all the work right on the device. This is faster than Cloud-based speech recognition and more secure [since every spoken word doesn't have to make a round trip through the Cloud]. Plus, Talkler works even when you have zero bars in a cell phone dead zone."

 

From rloew at ETS.ORG  Wed Jan 16 18:06:22 2013
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth C)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:06:22 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] ETS research intern position
Message-ID: <8EA502864A9DCA49858B3C4E76F45D8A1DBFBD19@BN1PRD0712MB635.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Here's an announcement from the ETS Research Division.  Please feel free to share it.  If you're interested, please contact Dr. Mark Hakkinen (mhakkinen at ets.org<mailto:mhakkinen at ets.org>).  Thanks!

A critical instructional and assessment challenge faced by students with visual impairments is access to graphical and spatially presented information essential to the study of mathematics and science. Tablet computers, with built in accessibility supports, combined with innovative multimodal capabilities such as vibrotactile haptic feedback, show promise as a platform for presenting graphical information to students with visual impairments. We are currently exploring the combined use of haptic feedback and sonification  to provide access to STEM content for students with visual impairments. The qualified intern will have exposure to assistive technologies, be familiar with tablet devices (e.g. iPad or Android), have experience understanding and editing HTML and Javascript code, have knowledge of accessibility standards such as W3C WCAG, and basic knowledge of usability research methods for studies with human participants.

Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Office of Disability Policy, ETS
fax: 609-683-2220
rloew at ets.org



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 16 23:40:07 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:40:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] virtual meetings and conference calls
Message-ID: <1198D4E870ED48AD866EC1DB660AEE0E@OwnerPC>

Hi all,
I wanted to investigate how to run a conference call and virtual meeting; Virtual means online.

I want to talk  to several friends at once to plan events or just catch up on college experiences; particularly a few blind friends; traveling is harder for us with the spread out of people and not everyone has the greatest transportation; for instance some people live where buses only go there in rush hours.

Anyway, I thought we could set something up online or phone. 
This way we can chat from the convenience of home.
What free conference services are out there and how do you go about setting it up?
I have access to a typical land phone with unlimited long distance service. Is this all I need?

Also, I was hoping to set something up online as well. Is skype our best option? Can you skype multiple people at the same time? I know you can do that with the premium service, but not sure about the free one. Ideally, I’d like to be able to have video capability for those of us who can see a little. I know skype has video options, but you can only do one to one without having a premium account.
The only other online chat service I know about is tango. But I don’t know anyone who uses it nor do I know if its accessible.

I only can think of virtual services that cost money and was hoping to find one that is accessible and did not cost anything.
For instance adobe connect is popular but costs money and is not accessible.

Thanks.

Ashley

From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Wed Jan 16 23:40:33 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:40:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Streaming Information For Tuning Into Tonight's Nabs Call
Message-ID: <f6b525f9c9fa7518f3c5404ca96c1f33.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

Hi All!
To listen in to the live stream of the Nabs scholarship call for those who
can't make it to tune in, tune in at 8 PM eastern by visiting
 http://listen.audioaccess.fm/?bgcolour=royalblue
There, you can select your best option for listening to the stream.
Enjoy!



From adrimpc80 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 00:08:56 2013
From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:08:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all
In-Reply-To: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
References: <B3FFB512E7794B039A836082E4B21BBF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFV4M-3_tvXWeQJyj9RMGpWwvPS+UqE3OWdeJKEwX8ojcfCQFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Koby,
I think it's better for you to face the situation with your parent,
particularly with your dad, before leaving home. If you just go and
try to handle the situation later, it could get worse. So I think it's
better to have things clear from the beginning, and let your parents
know, right away, that you are not going back home.

Good luck with your decisions and new life.

2013/1/15, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com>:
> Hello All,
> I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
> In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
> regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
> stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
> In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
> once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
> Each one of you right back soon,
> Koby.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Adriana Pulido
Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad
Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida.


From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Thu Jan 17 01:13:31 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:13:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
Message-ID: <1b660fe53a12adbf11e135463d1a6de2.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

Hi All!
There's only three of us on the nabs call. I wanted to remind you that
there is a different number to call in to access the call.
Don't forget, the Nabs phone code has changed for calling in dial
1-605-475-6700 code 7869673
followed by the pound sign.
>From David



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 01:26:23 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:26:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
In-Reply-To: <1b660fe53a12adbf11e135463d1a6de2.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
References: <1b660fe53a12adbf11e135463d1a6de2.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
Message-ID: <015601cdf451$aa7ba290$ff72e7b0$@gmail.com>

David,

	Thank you! I just tweeted the info out to the Maryland student
division's followers.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:14 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info

Hi All!
There's only three of us on the nabs call. I wanted to remind you that there
is a different number to call in to access the call.
Don't forget, the Nabs phone code has changed for calling in dial
1-605-475-6700 code 7869673
followed by the pound sign.
>From David


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jan 17 02:40:14 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:40:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: New Windows 8 Textbooks Available
Message-ID: <auto-000093434901@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>I'm pleased to announce the release of two new windows textbooks!
>
>- An immersion into Windows 8 with Window- Eyes 8
>- An Immersion into Windows 8 with NVDA.
>
>Please visit www.blindtraining.com/shop/windows.htm to review the 
>tables of contents and purchase your copies.
>
>CathyAnne
>
>CathyAnne Murtha
>Director
>Access Technology Institute
>www.blindtraining.com
>Phone: (520) 300-7859
>FAX: (800) 987-6198
>Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha
>Facebook: www.facebook.com/blindtraining



From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jan 17 03:01:30 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:01:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking input
Message-ID: <auto-000094089446@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>All:
>
>
>
>I received the attached survey from the director of UNL's Visual Impairments
>program. One of her colleagues is gathering data on how well meeting and
>event planners provide for the needs of blind attendees. If you are so
>inclined, please take a moment to read the cover letter and complete and
>return the survey.
>
>
>
>Please also disceminate to others you think may be interested.
>
>
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 05:22:24 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 00:22:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] virtual meetings and conference calls
In-Reply-To: <1198D4E870ED48AD866EC1DB660AEE0E@OwnerPC>
References: <1198D4E870ED48AD866EC1DB660AEE0E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FacX1kTEW8kL8N2ZdAAkj4bwGxLS4_WrajiKdc_0rksQg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

Yes, you can add people to skype calls and host conferences that way,
although you won't be able to do video if there is a large number of
people like you said.  However, as you are mainly talking anyway and
that's the most important thing then it's a pretty good option.
To do this just call a person you want to talk to, then go to the next
person you want to add to the call.  Once you find their name in your
contacts press applications and hit enter on invite to conference
call.  Skype will call them and they should be added once they answer.
 Do this to add each person to the call.

HTH

On 1/16/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I wanted to investigate how to run a conference call and virtual meeting;
> Virtual means online.
>
> I want to talk  to several friends at once to plan events or just catch up
> on college experiences; particularly a few blind friends; traveling is
> harder for us with the spread out of people and not everyone has the
> greatest transportation; for instance some people live where buses only go
> there in rush hours.
>
> Anyway, I thought we could set something up online or phone.
> This way we can chat from the convenience of home.
> What free conference services are out there and how do you go about setting
> it up?
> I have access to a typical land phone with unlimited long distance service.
> Is this all I need?
>
> Also, I was hoping to set something up online as well. Is skype our best
> option? Can you skype multiple people at the same time? I know you can do
> that with the premium service, but not sure about the free one. Ideally, I’d
> like to be able to have video capability for those of us who can see a
> little. I know skype has video options, but you can only do one to one
> without having a premium account.
> The only other online chat service I know about is tango. But I don’t know
> anyone who uses it nor do I know if its accessible.
>
> I only can think of virtual services that cost money and was hoping to find
> one that is accessible and did not cost anything.
> For instance adobe connect is popular but costs money and is not accessible.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From maria.kristic at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 18:12:12 2013
From: maria.kristic at gmail.com (Maria Kristic)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:12:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwZOcr0qiQm0HcZ4=1SbzBq1ctLhU1y3Dw42Rryz8tdKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <130601cdf372$80b1a700$8214f500$@gmail.com>
	<C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64594E@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACUFQdwZOcr0qiQm0HcZ4=1SbzBq1ctLhU1y3Dw42Rryz8tdKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006001cdf4de$2d2cf310$8786d930$@gmail.com>

The MAT is *not* used for business schools. B-Schools use the GMAT (Graduate
Management Admissions Test), and many also accept the GRE. The MAT is the
Miller Analogies Test and is used in admissions to some psychology-related
programs.

Good luck on your studies!

Regards,
Maria

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:26 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] M. A. T. questions

The MAT is a grad school entrance exam. There are a few such as the GRE or
MCAT or LSAT. From what I have seen, the MAT is required for business
schools and maybe some other things.

Cindy 



From Vyingling at nfb.org  Thu Jan 17 20:23:06 2013
From: Vyingling at nfb.org (Yingling, Valerie)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:23:06 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for users experiencing difficulty with
 EBSCOhost's accessibility
Message-ID: <2E77F7FE85FE99418761668AE1AA779E118939C5@SN2PRD0710MB382.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

As a reminder, please contact me at vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:vyingling at nfb.org> if you have experienced difficulty accessing EBSCOhost with a screen reader.

EBSCO Publishing recently learned that a number of online research database users have experienced difficulty accessing EBSCOhost with screen readers.  EBSCO is committed to fixing this problem and would like to contact users who have encountered inaccessibility with the databases so that technical support staff can duplicate the issue and find a resolution.

Thank you,
Valerie

Valerie Yingling
Paralegal
National Federation of the Blind
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: 410-659-9314 ext. 2440
Fax: 410-659-5129
E-mail: Vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:Vyingling at nfb.org>
Web site: www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/>


From maria.kristic at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 21:25:28 2013
From: maria.kristic at gmail.com (Maria Kristic)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:25:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Math symbols
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaxBvyTJxajSP2A0Fe8tL3jzHJYTF181Dwo+yH=xS0=1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaxBvyTJxajSP2A0Fe8tL3jzHJYTF181Dwo+yH=xS0=1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014d01cdf4f9$2cffad40$86ff07c0$@gmail.com>

It is not really that your screen reader is coming up with a different name
for the symbol. Is this a PDF file? I imagine so--sometimes, when run
through the Adobe Reader tagging process, symbols are not interpreted
correctly by AT (I don't yet know why that occurs); Also, how they are
misinterpreted depends on the specific file, it seems, from my own
experience. I imagine this was an untagged PDF, right, so that you were
asked about its reading order, etc. when you opened it?

As for what you can do...

How much effort you want to expend depends on how much more math you plan on
taking...

If you do not plan on taking more math classes, you might just want to use
your professor's suggestion on how to write things--it is free! Ask your
professor about any other symbols that are unclear to learn how they are
specifically "misrepresented", if you will, in that file; I know that is
frustrating, and I wish that math content in PDFs was natively more
accessible, too.

If you are planning on more math in your life...

What operating system and version of Internet Explorer (IE) are you running?

Does your professor have Word files of these worksheets? If so, and if you
purchase MathType from Design Science (if memory serves, it is about $60 if
you are a student, MT is useful for writing math also, see next paragraph)
and install the free MathPlayer Internet Explorer add-in also from Design
Science, you can export the Word file to something that you can open in IE
and then accessibly read with your screen reader. If running Windows 8 and
IE10, though, the compatible MathPlayer version is not currently available
and should be out in February according to Design Science.

If you buy MathType and type LaTeX code for your math symbols, you can
convert these using a MathType toggle command to MathType equations with
graphical symbols. LaTeX is a text markup language--in your example, for
instance, the Greek letter sigma is written \sigma (that's a backslash
followed by the word sigma)--and you can Google LaTeX primer, but you really
should not need to know *that* much LaTeX for Stats (Greek letters=backslash
followed by the word representing the name of the Greek letter, the fraction
three-fourths is written \frac{3}{4}, the caret (^) is used to indicate
superscripts and underscore (_) used to indicate subscripts with the
sub/superscripted quantity in curly braces (i.e., two squared would be 2^{2}
), and a few more symbols). I like using Word+MathType because you only need
to write out the math symbols in LaTeX, and everything else can just be
written/formatted in Word as you would for non-math documents; you can
instead use a free LaTeX editor and output to PDF with graphical symbols,
but then you would have to write the *whole* document in LaTeX (laying out
the document and all), which is just more work!

A 30-day free trial of MathType is available from the Design Science Web
site which you can play with, so you can see how you like this before you
pay, if you want to go that route.

As for converting those PDFs to something more accessible, aside from
someone manually typing it out as something like a Word document with LaTeX
representations of the symbols (as MathType equations cannot yet be natively
read with screen readers in Word, though Design Science is working on this),
an option would be to convert them to all LaTeX using a program called
InftyReader. I would suggest you only explore this option if you plan on
having a *lot* of quantitative material you need access to during your
studies, and that you have your disability services office do it for you--it
is a US$800 piece of software, and it is quite prone to OCR errors depending
on the quality of the input file, so you generally need someone sighted to
clean up the output...

Hope this helps to get you started. Any questions, ask. Good luck!

Regards,
Maria

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:56 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Math symbols

Hi all,

I'm starting my stats class today, and the professor gave me some of the
materials to look over before the class to make sure they were accessible on
my laptop.  The worksheets were fine, but I came across a "Macron" symbol
and didn't know what it was.  I took it to my prof and he said it was
actually the symbol for sigma.  Now that I know this, I'm wondering what
other symbols JAWS might have funky names for and what these symbols might
be.  Also, I'm wondering how I would go about writing them in equasions.  My
professor said that if there really isn't a good way to do it he'd be fine
with me writing out something like "Sigma" within the equasion, but if I can
get the
symbols to work that would be great.   Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

--
Kaiti 



From maria.kristic at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 21:42:41 2013
From: maria.kristic at gmail.com (Maria Kristic)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:42:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Getting Photo Off Webpage with Jaws
In-Reply-To: <CAL=h+uiEv6Bfmp3Mh+wUKAsr5WhwqxdOq_6tgjDG4LCR523GbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL=h+uiEv6Bfmp3Mh+wUKAsr5WhwqxdOq_6tgjDG4LCR523GbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <017001cdf4fb$948efd60$bdacf820$@gmail.com>

All depends on the Web page...how is the image presented on the page? If it
is a link, you might have to TAB instead of arrow to it to ensure that
system focus is on the link before invoking the Context menu...you might
instead have to hit ENTER to open the image and then save via File > Save
As...you might have to use your screen reader's mouse simulation cursor,
route to system focus, and right-click with the mouse cursor to invoke the
Context Menu from which you can choose Save Target As...As I said, all
depends on the Web page.

Good luck!

Regards,
Maria

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:41 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Getting Photo Off Webpage with Jaws

Hello,
Does anyone know how to download a photograph from a website using Jaws?
Let's say there's a story online with a photograph on the page you need to
download. You know it's possible to download it, but you can't find it with
Jaws and don't know how to capture it. You thought pressing Shift plus F10
might let you save it, but you still don't know how to focus on the photo to
"save as." What can you do?
Thanks,
Brice 



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 22:24:28 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:24:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Winter Meeting
Message-ID: <CACUFQdy1f1Ue-LtQ=tR5pEB1hT4T1pVEDjBXiT0ErLH5FCMngQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am sending the preregistration link for the 2013 NABS Winter Meeting
which will take place on Monday, February 4, from 9:00 A.M. to 1:00
P.M. at the Holiday Inn Capitol hotel. Preregistering is a great way
to expedite the registration process so you don't have to wait in line
for so long. The seminar is $5, and we will accept your cash
registration fee at the door.

http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/civicrm/event/register?reset=1&id=3

I know that many people probably got an email invitation from our
registration system, but I wanted to offer the link to new attendees.
Please encourage your friends to preregister! We are excited about all
of the fun events we are hosting, and we will provide more information
about them as the time approaches.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From isaac.hebert at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 22:35:17 2013
From: isaac.hebert at gmail.com (Isaac Hebert)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:35:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1358445624.32614.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.23.1358445624.32614.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <CAFTLZhSd9vFExSRSJmdkiN345BatP-Q9LC6V+Uw_UCyXjkT=_A@mail.gmail.com>

it is better to talk to you're parents first.

On 1/17/13, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> 	nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. ETS research intern position (Loew, Ruth C)
>    2. virtual meetings and conference calls (Ashley Bramlett)
>    3. Streaming Information For Tuning Into Tonight's Nabs Call
>       (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
>    4. Re: Question for you all (Adriana Pulido)
>    5. Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
>       (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
>    6. Re: Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info (Chris Nusbaum)
>    7. Fwd: New Windows 8 Textbooks Available (David Andrews)
>    8. Seeking input (David Andrews)
>    9. Re: virtual meetings and conference calls (Kaiti Shelton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:06:22 +0000
> From: "Loew, Ruth C" <rloew at ETS.ORG>
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] ETS research intern position
> Message-ID:
> 	<8EA502864A9DCA49858B3C4E76F45D8A1DBFBD19 at BN1PRD0712MB635.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Here's an announcement from the ETS Research Division.  Please feel free to
> share it.  If you're interested, please contact Dr. Mark Hakkinen
> (mhakkinen at ets.org<mailto:mhakkinen at ets.org>).  Thanks!
>
> A critical instructional and assessment challenge faced by students with
> visual impairments is access to graphical and spatially presented
> information essential to the study of mathematics and science. Tablet
> computers, with built in accessibility supports, combined with innovative
> multimodal capabilities such as vibrotactile haptic feedback, show promise
> as a platform for presenting graphical information to students with visual
> impairments. We are currently exploring the combined use of haptic feedback
> and sonification  to provide access to STEM content for students with visual
> impairments. The qualified intern will have exposure to assistive
> technologies, be familiar with tablet devices (e.g. iPad or Android), have
> experience understanding and editing HTML and Javascript code, have
> knowledge of accessibility standards such as W3C WCAG, and basic knowledge
> of usability research methods for studies with human participants.
>
> Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
> Assistant Director
> Office of Disability Policy, ETS
> fax: 609-683-2220
> rloew at ets.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:40:07 -0500
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] virtual meetings and conference calls
> Message-ID: <1198D4E870ED48AD866EC1DB660AEE0E at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
> I wanted to investigate how to run a conference call and virtual meeting;
> Virtual means online.
>
> I want to talk  to several friends at once to plan events or just catch up
> on college experiences; particularly a few blind friends; traveling is
> harder for us with the spread out of people and not everyone has the
> greatest transportation; for instance some people live where buses only go
> there in rush hours.
>
> Anyway, I thought we could set something up online or phone.
> This way we can chat from the convenience of home.
> What free conference services are out there and how do you go about setting
> it up?
> I have access to a typical land phone with unlimited long distance service.
> Is this all I need?
>
> Also, I was hoping to set something up online as well. Is skype our best
> option? Can you skype multiple people at the same time? I know you can do
> that with the premium service, but not sure about the free one. Ideally, I?d
> like to be able to have video capability for those of us who can see a
> little. I know skype has video options, but you can only do one to one
> without having a premium account.
> The only other online chat service I know about is tango. But I don?t know
> anyone who uses it nor do I know if its accessible.
>
> I only can think of virtual services that cost money and was hoping to find
> one that is accessible and did not cost anything.
> For instance adobe connect is popular but costs money and is not
> accessible.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:40:33 -0800
> From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Streaming Information For Tuning Into Tonight's Nabs
> 	Call
> Message-ID:
> 	<f6b525f9c9fa7518f3c5404ca96c1f33.squirrel at webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi All!
> To listen in to the live stream of the Nabs scholarship call for those who
> can't make it to tune in, tune in at 8 PM eastern by visiting
>  http://listen.audioaccess.fm/?bgcolour=royalblue
> There, you can select your best option for listening to the stream.
> Enjoy!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:08:56 -0600
> From: Adriana Pulido <adrimpc80 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAFV4M-3_tvXWeQJyj9RMGpWwvPS+UqE3OWdeJKEwX8ojcfCQFA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Koby,
> I think it's better for you to face the situation with your parent,
> particularly with your dad, before leaving home. If you just go and
> try to handle the situation later, it could get worse. So I think it's
> better to have things clear from the beginning, and let your parents
> know, right away, that you are not going back home.
>
> Good luck with your decisions and new life.
>
> 2013/1/15, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com>:
>> Hello All,
>> I'm going to move out of my parents house tomorrow and I'm going to move
>> In with a roommate. However, I am unsure how to approach my parents
>> regarding this. My mom wants me to get out however; my dad wants me to
>> stay living under his roof until I'm 25 years old. Should I just go move
>> In with my roommate tomorrow and then tell them that I'm not coming home
>> once I'm over there or how should I handle this situation?
>> Each one of you right back soon,
>> Koby.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Adriana Pulido
> Fil?loga en Ingl?s y m?sico de la Universidad
> Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestr?a en University of Florida.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:13:31 -0800
> From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
> Message-ID:
> 	<1b660fe53a12adbf11e135463d1a6de2.squirrel at webmail.audioaccessfm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi All!
> There's only three of us on the nabs call. I wanted to remind you that
> there is a different number to call in to access the call.
> Don't forget, the Nabs phone code has changed for calling in dial
> 1-605-475-6700 code 7869673
> followed by the pound sign.
> >From David
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:26:23 -0500
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
> Message-ID: <015601cdf451$aa7ba290$ff72e7b0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> David,
>
> 	Thank you! I just tweeted the info out to the Maryland student
> division's followers.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:14 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder About The Nabs Call In Info
>
> Hi All!
> There's only three of us on the nabs call. I wanted to remind you that
> there
> is a different number to call in to access the call.
> Don't forget, the Nabs phone code has changed for calling in dial
> 1-605-475-6700 code 7869673
> followed by the pound sign.
> >From David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:40:14 -0600
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: New Windows 8 Textbooks Available
> Message-ID: <auto-000093434901 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>>
>>I'm pleased to announce the release of two new windows textbooks!
>>
>>- An immersion into Windows 8 with Window- Eyes 8
>>- An Immersion into Windows 8 with NVDA.
>>
>>Please visit www.blindtraining.com/shop/windows.htm to review the
>>tables of contents and purchase your copies.
>>
>>CathyAnne
>>
>>CathyAnne Murtha
>>Director
>>Access Technology Institute
>>www.blindtraining.com
>>Phone: (520) 300-7859
>>FAX: (800) 987-6198
>>Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha
>>Facebook: www.facebook.com/blindtraining
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:01:30 -0600
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org,
> Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking input
> Message-ID: <auto-000094089446 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
>
>
>>
>>All:
>>
>>
>>
>>I received the attached survey from the director of UNL's Visual
>> Impairments
>>program. One of her colleagues is gathering data on how well meeting and
>>event planners provide for the needs of blind attendees. If you are so
>>inclined, please take a moment to read the cover letter and complete and
>>return the survey.
>>
>>
>>
>>Please also disceminate to others you think may be interested.
>>
>>
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 00:22:24 -0500
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] virtual meetings and conference calls
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAFja7FacX1kTEW8kL8N2ZdAAkj4bwGxLS4_WrajiKdc_0rksQg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi Ashley,
>
> Yes, you can add people to skype calls and host conferences that way,
> although you won't be able to do video if there is a large number of
> people like you said.  However, as you are mainly talking anyway and
> that's the most important thing then it's a pretty good option.
> To do this just call a person you want to talk to, then go to the next
> person you want to add to the call.  Once you find their name in your
> contacts press applications and hit enter on invite to conference
> call.  Skype will call them and they should be added once they answer.
>  Do this to add each person to the call.
>
> HTH
>
> On 1/16/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I wanted to investigate how to run a conference call and virtual meeting;
>> Virtual means online.
>>
>> I want to talk  to several friends at once to plan events or just catch
>> up
>> on college experiences; particularly a few blind friends; traveling is
>> harder for us with the spread out of people and not everyone has the
>> greatest transportation; for instance some people live where buses only
>> go
>> there in rush hours.
>>
>> Anyway, I thought we could set something up online or phone.
>> This way we can chat from the convenience of home.
>> What free conference services are out there and how do you go about
>> setting
>> it up?
>> I have access to a typical land phone with unlimited long distance
>> service.
>> Is this all I need?
>>
>> Also, I was hoping to set something up online as well. Is skype our best
>> option? Can you skype multiple people at the same time? I know you can do
>> that with the premium service, but not sure about the free one. Ideally,
>> I?d
>> like to be able to have video capability for those of us who can see a
>> little. I know skype has video options, but you can only do one to one
>> without having a premium account.
>> The only other online chat service I know about is tango. But I don?t
>> know
>> anyone who uses it nor do I know if its accessible.
>>
>> I only can think of virtual services that cost money and was hoping to
>> find
>> one that is accessible and did not cost anything.
>> For instance adobe connect is popular but costs money and is not
>> accessible.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 75, Issue 24
> **************************************
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 00:10:40 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 19:10:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Math symbols
In-Reply-To: <014d01cdf4f9$2cffad40$86ff07c0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FaxBvyTJxajSP2A0Fe8tL3jzHJYTF181Dwo+yH=xS0=1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<014d01cdf4f9$2cffad40$86ff07c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY+xPYLcYMrHu731E9GizOMBdf84Htwh9AfvKznmy9djg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Maria,

These arActually, these were html files.  I have text files for the
text portions of my math book, and my professor is giving me
worksheets in word format.  Both of those work great.  I don't know
why but I guess my ds office thought taking the algebra stuff out of
the text file and putting it into html would make it easier for the
screenreader or something.  Anyway, this is the only math class I'm
going to need, and I plan to use my professor's suggestion for writing
out symbols and just ask for clarification on what they really are if
they're not spoken right again.  As for reading it, I'm not keen on
the idea of buying anything since this is just one class and my
professor is so willing to help me find work arounds, but I guess if
all else fails I could google how to write the symbol and put it into
my jaws dictionary to make the macron announce itself as sigma, just
to make reading a little more straightforward.

Thanks for all the suggestions though.  I've heard of latex and it
sounds like an interesting language.
Thanks.



On 1/17/13, Maria Kristic <maria.kristic at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is not really that your screen reader is coming up with a different name
> for the symbol. Is this a PDF file? I imagine so--sometimes, when run
> through the Adobe Reader tagging process, symbols are not interpreted
> correctly by AT (I don't yet know why that occurs); Also, how they are
> misinterpreted depends on the specific file, it seems, from my own
> experience. I imagine this was an untagged PDF, right, so that you were
> asked about its reading order, etc. when you opened it?
>
> As for what you can do...
>
> How much effort you want to expend depends on how much more math you plan
> on
> taking...
>
> If you do not plan on taking more math classes, you might just want to use
> your professor's suggestion on how to write things--it is free! Ask your
> professor about any other symbols that are unclear to learn how they are
> specifically "misrepresented", if you will, in that file; I know that is
> frustrating, and I wish that math content in PDFs was natively more
> accessible, too.
>
> If you are planning on more math in your life...
>
> What operating system and version of Internet Explorer (IE) are you
> running?
>
> Does your professor have Word files of these worksheets? If so, and if you
> purchase MathType from Design Science (if memory serves, it is about $60 if
> you are a student, MT is useful for writing math also, see next paragraph)
> and install the free MathPlayer Internet Explorer add-in also from Design
> Science, you can export the Word file to something that you can open in IE
> and then accessibly read with your screen reader. If running Windows 8 and
> IE10, though, the compatible MathPlayer version is not currently available
> and should be out in February according to Design Science.
>
> If you buy MathType and type LaTeX code for your math symbols, you can
> convert these using a MathType toggle command to MathType equations with
> graphical symbols. LaTeX is a text markup language--in your example, for
> instance, the Greek letter sigma is written \sigma (that's a backslash
> followed by the word sigma)--and you can Google LaTeX primer, but you
> really
> should not need to know *that* much LaTeX for Stats (Greek
> letters=backslash
> followed by the word representing the name of the Greek letter, the
> fraction
> three-fourths is written \frac{3}{4}, the caret (^) is used to indicate
> superscripts and underscore (_) used to indicate subscripts with the
> sub/superscripted quantity in curly braces (i.e., two squared would be
> 2^{2}
> ), and a few more symbols). I like using Word+MathType because you only
> need
> to write out the math symbols in LaTeX, and everything else can just be
> written/formatted in Word as you would for non-math documents; you can
> instead use a free LaTeX editor and output to PDF with graphical symbols,
> but then you would have to write the *whole* document in LaTeX (laying out
> the document and all), which is just more work!
>
> A 30-day free trial of MathType is available from the Design Science Web
> site which you can play with, so you can see how you like this before you
> pay, if you want to go that route.
>
> As for converting those PDFs to something more accessible, aside from
> someone manually typing it out as something like a Word document with LaTeX
> representations of the symbols (as MathType equations cannot yet be
> natively
> read with screen readers in Word, though Design Science is working on
> this),
> an option would be to convert them to all LaTeX using a program called
> InftyReader. I would suggest you only explore this option if you plan on
> having a *lot* of quantitative material you need access to during your
> studies, and that you have your disability services office do it for
> you--it
> is a US$800 piece of software, and it is quite prone to OCR errors
> depending
> on the quality of the input file, so you generally need someone sighted to
> clean up the output...
>
> Hope this helps to get you started. Any questions, ask. Good luck!
>
> Regards,
> Maria
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:56 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Math symbols
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm starting my stats class today, and the professor gave me some of the
> materials to look over before the class to make sure they were accessible
> on
> my laptop.  The worksheets were fine, but I came across a "Macron" symbol
> and didn't know what it was.  I took it to my prof and he said it was
> actually the symbol for sigma.  Now that I know this, I'm wondering what
> other symbols JAWS might have funky names for and what these symbols might
> be.  Also, I'm wondering how I would go about writing them in equasions.
> My
> professor said that if there really isn't a good way to do it he'd be fine
> with me writing out something like "Sigma" within the equasion, but if I
> can
> get the
> symbols to work that would be great.   Any suggestions would be
> appreciated.
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Fri Jan 18 00:37:35 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 00:37:35 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Something I've noticed about Google Chrome!
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64F1B9@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

It's accessible with Jaws 13!
I didn't know that!
The only drawback, is that Chrome doesn't support Blackboard, but IE does.
My online class will use Blackboard.
Blessings, Joshua


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 01:58:37 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
Message-ID: <1902A14B-302F-44DE-AEA9-42DBC6599F32@gmail.com>

HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 


From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 02:03:20 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:03:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
Message-ID: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>

Hi Lavanya,
On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
message on the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the 
send button.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION

HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 02:27:12 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:27:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>

 is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lavanya,
> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the message on the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
> %40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 02:47:54 2013
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:47:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
Message-ID: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>

Hello fellow students,

 

Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any cooperating
Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can use to find
free e-books I can read with JAWS? 

The reason I am asking this questions is because my English instructor has
assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to read
together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is not to be
found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I looked, and
pretty much exhausted my search. 

The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the hassle of
buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability Support office
my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille or Audio
format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is sitting for
months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.

 

So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I could try?
Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.

 

Sincerely,

Humberto


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 05:04:02 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:04:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>
References: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhueuiiDEOGVT5ARrBpAHe76ssD1bmBkWSF_HggcKjSpuN+w@mail.gmail.com>

Homberto,
  Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello fellow students,
>
>
>
> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any cooperating
> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can use to
> find
> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>
> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English instructor has
> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to read
> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is not to be
> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I looked, and
> pretty much exhausted my search.
>
> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the hassle of
> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability Support office
> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille or Audio
> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is sitting for
> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>
>
>
> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I could try?
> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Humberto
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 08:01:43 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CABDhueuiiDEOGVT5ARrBpAHe76ssD1bmBkWSF_HggcKjSpuN+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuiiDEOGVT5ARrBpAHe76ssD1bmBkWSF_HggcKjSpuN+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhueuUZkhtP2+xS9s_hRZg+XsCDEC1pgOX9k0er2X+3D9zMw@mail.gmail.com>

Homberto,
  Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to
check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
That's what I was talking about.

On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Homberto,
>   Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello fellow students,
>>
>>
>>
>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any cooperating
>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can use to
>> find
>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>
>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English instructor
>> has
>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to read
>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is not to be
>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I looked, and
>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>>
>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the hassle
>> of
>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability Support
>> office
>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille or Audio
>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is sitting for
>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I could
>> try?
>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Humberto
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 12:29:17 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 06:29:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
Message-ID: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>

Homberto,

Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or 
Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group 
reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at 
the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just 
listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get 
creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of 
your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the 
same as theirs.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Homberto,
  Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in 
order.
I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you 
to
check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are 
accessible.
That's what I was talking about.

On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
 Homberto,
   Maybe your university library or your local public library has 
an
 accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
 anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the 
law.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello fellow students,



 Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any 
cooperating
 Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can 
use to
 find
 free e-books I can read with JAWS?

 The reason I am asking this questions is because my English 
instructor
 has
 assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to 
read
 together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is 
not to be
 found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I 
looked, and
 pretty much exhausted my search.

 The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and 
on
 Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid 
the hassle
 of
 buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability 
Support
 office
 my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille 
or Audio
 format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is 
sitting for
 months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.



 So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I 
could
 try?
 Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy 
scholar.



 Sincerely,

 Humberto

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
e%40gmail.com



_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 15:18:51 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:18:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Humberto,

I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
cartrage for the nls player?
Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
older book that might be a good source.

On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Homberto,
>
> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
> same as theirs.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>
> Homberto,
>   Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
> order.
> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
> to
> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
> accessible.
> That's what I was talking about.
>
> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Homberto,
>    Maybe your university library or your local public library has
> an
>  accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>  anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
> law.
>    Best,
>  Kirt
>
>  On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello fellow students,
>
>
>
>  Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
> cooperating
>  Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
> use to
>  find
>  free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>
>  The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
> instructor
>  has
>  assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
> read
>  together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
> not to be
>  found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
> looked, and
>  pretty much exhausted my search.
>
>  The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
> on
>  Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
> the hassle
>  of
>  buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
> Support
>  office
>  my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
> or Audio
>  format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
> sitting for
>  months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>
>
>
>  So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
> could
>  try?
>  Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
> scholar.
>
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>
>  Humberto
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
> e%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 16:08:03 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:08:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41670644-D328-4871-9B9F-FA55A77DB454@gmail.com>

Sophie,
Usually I agree with you on here, but I can't this time. I don't see most cited students buying the book, if they can check it out in a public library for free. Also, e-books and audiobooks are definitely still more expensive than regular print books. Even if everybody is buying, which is doubtful, I can understand why Humberto doesn't want to pay that extra cost.  That being said, if there is really no other way, and his group won't change the book they are reading for his sake, then he will have to buckle down and do it. I feel for him if that's the case, though.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Humberto,
> 
> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
> cartrage for the nls player?
> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
> older book that might be a good source.
> 
> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Homberto,
>> 
>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
>> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
>> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
>> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
>> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
>> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
>> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
>> same as theirs.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>> 
>> Homberto,
>>  Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
>> order.
>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
>> to
>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
>> accessible.
>> That's what I was talking about.
>> 
>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Homberto,
>>   Maybe your university library or your local public library has
>> an
>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
>> law.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>> 
>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hello fellow students,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>> cooperating
>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
>> use to
>> find
>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>> 
>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>> instructor
>> has
>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
>> read
>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
>> not to be
>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
>> looked, and
>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>> 
>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
>> on
>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
>> the hassle
>> of
>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
>> Support
>> office
>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
>> or Audio
>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
>> sitting for
>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>> could
>> try?
>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
>> scholar.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Humberto
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>> e%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 19:38:22 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:38:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <41670644-D328-4871-9B9F-FA55A77DB454@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<41670644-D328-4871-9B9F-FA55A77DB454@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-4490020976088160529@unknownmsgid>

Free is always better, for blind and sighted people alike.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sophie,
> Usually I agree with you on here, but I can't this time. I don't see most cited students buying the book, if they can check it out in a public library for free. Also, e-books and audiobooks are definitely still more expensive than regular print books. Even if everybody is buying, which is doubtful, I can understand why Humberto doesn't want to pay that extra cost.  That being said, if there is really no other way, and his group won't change the book they are reading for his sake, then he will have to buckle down and do it. I feel for him if that's the case, though.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Humberto,
>>
>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>> cartrage for the nls player?
>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>> older book that might be a good source.
>>
>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>
>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
>>> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
>>> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
>>> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
>>> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
>>> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
>>> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
>>> same as theirs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Homberto,
>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
>>> order.
>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
>>> to
>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
>>> accessible.
>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has
>>> an
>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
>>> law.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>> cooperating
>>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
>>> use to
>>> find
>>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>
>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>> instructor
>>> has
>>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
>>> read
>>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
>>> not to be
>>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
>>> looked, and
>>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>
>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
>>> on
>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
>>> the hassle
>>> of
>>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
>>> Support
>>> office
>>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
>>> or Audio
>>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
>>> sitting for
>>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>> could
>>> try?
>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
>>> scholar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Humberto
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 19:46:26 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:46:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>

Haiti,

Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
that he checked all formats.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Humberto,
>
> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
> cartrage for the nls player?
> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
> older book that might be a good source.
>
> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Homberto,
>>
>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
>> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
>> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
>> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
>> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
>> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
>> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
>> same as theirs.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Homberto,
>>  Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
>> order.
>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
>> to
>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
>> accessible.
>> That's what I was talking about.
>>
>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Homberto,
>>   Maybe your university library or your local public library has
>> an
>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
>> law.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hello fellow students,
>>
>>
>>
>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>> cooperating
>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
>> use to
>> find
>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>
>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>> instructor
>> has
>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
>> read
>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
>> not to be
>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
>> looked, and
>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>>
>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
>> on
>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
>> the hassle
>> of
>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
>> Support
>> office
>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
>> or Audio
>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
>> sitting for
>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>> could
>> try?
>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
>> scholar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Humberto
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>> e%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 20:00:36 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:00:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>

Chris,
Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for download online.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Haiti,
> 
> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
> that he checked all formats.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Humberto,
>> 
>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>> cartrage for the nls player?
>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>> older book that might be a good source.
>> 
>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>> 
>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
>>> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
>>> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
>>> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
>>> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
>>> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
>>> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
>>> same as theirs.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>> 
>>> Homberto,
>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
>>> order.
>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
>>> to
>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
>>> accessible.
>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>> 
>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has
>>> an
>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
>>> law.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello fellow students,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>> cooperating
>>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
>>> use to
>>> find
>>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>> 
>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>> instructor
>>> has
>>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
>>> read
>>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
>>> not to be
>>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
>>> looked, and
>>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>>> 
>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
>>> on
>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
>>> the hassle
>>> of
>>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
>>> Support
>>> office
>>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
>>> or Audio
>>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
>>> sitting for
>>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>> could
>>> try?
>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
>>> scholar.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Humberto
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>> e%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:05:09 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:05:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
	<F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb_h3+Nk8=4VyJYcT5h+HzjKRhBRu4f+O3=QWvb=9S3vQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

What I meant by checking web braille was that he looked specifically
for the web braille copies, not just the audio ones.  It's a little
confusing now since both bookshare and NLs offer both electronic
braille and audio files, but what I really meant was to see if he
looked for those braille files since he also mentioned mp3 only sites
like Learning Ally and the ITunes Store.
Also, I swear by Project Gutinberg since it's so accessible and you
don't even need a membership for it.  A lot of times that resource is
overlooked or forgotten about but it has come in really handy for me a
couple of times like this when what I needed wasn't available anywhere
else.
And if all else fails, do call your state library.  I would hope that
you wouldn't have to do that, as obviously that would involve some
wait time for USPS to get the book to you, but it would be better than
nothing at all.

Good luck!

On 1/18/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
> Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date
> libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for
> download online.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Haiti,
>>
>> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
>> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
>> that he checked all formats.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Humberto,
>>>
>>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>>> cartrage for the nls player?
>>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>>> older book that might be a good source.
>>>
>>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Homberto,
>>>>
>>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or
>>>> Audible, I don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group
>>>> reading together in class or just reading the same chapters at
>>>> the same time at home? If that's the case, couldn't you just
>>>> listen to the book at home? A lot of times, we have to get
>>>> creative with how we do things. And if the sighted members of
>>>> your group are buying the book, your expense will be about the
>>>> same as theirs.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>>
>>>> Homberto,
>>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in
>>>> order.
>>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you
>>>> to
>>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are
>>>> accessible.
>>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Homberto,
>>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has
>>>> an
>>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the
>>>> law.
>>>>  Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>>> cooperating
>>>> Talking and book library, is there any other resource that I can
>>>> use to
>>>> find
>>>> free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>>
>>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>>> instructor
>>>> has
>>>> assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick out a book to
>>>> read
>>>> together. However, the book that we've chosen for my group is
>>>> not to be
>>>> found anywhere in any of those sites I've mentioned above. I
>>>> looked, and
>>>> pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>>
>>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and
>>>> on
>>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid
>>>> the hassle
>>>> of
>>>> buying the print copy of the book just to show my Disability
>>>> Support
>>>> office
>>>> my receipt, so they can convert it for me in e-text or Braille
>>>> or Audio
>>>> format. Plus, all the print book ends up doing anyways, is
>>>> sitting for
>>>> months collecting particles of dust in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>>> could
>>>> try?
>>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy
>>>> scholar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Humberto
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:05:40 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:05:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
	<F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>

Kirt,

	Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many
state libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state
NLS libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody
needed a book which was not available from BARD or their state library but
was available from another state's library, they could still download it
from the Shelf Project database.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Chris,
Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date
libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for
download online.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Haiti,
> 
> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could 
> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming 
> that he checked all formats.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
>> Hi Humberto,
>> 
>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS 
>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on 
>> cartrage for the nls player?
>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although 
>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't 
>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an 
>> older book that might be a good source.
>> 
>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>> 
>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I 
>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in 
>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If 
>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot 
>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the 
>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will 
>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>> 
>>> Homberto,
>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to 
>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>> 
>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has an 
>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of 
>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello fellow students,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any 
>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource 
>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>> 
>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English 
>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick 
>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for 
>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've 
>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>> 
>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on 
>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the 
>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my 
>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me 
>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends 
>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust 
>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I 
>>> could try?
>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Humberto
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>> e%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>> 4%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:12:54 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:12:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid><F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
	<000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
Does Blio not have it?
If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the book, 
you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted Kindle 
Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Kirt,

Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many
state libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state
NLS libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody
needed a book which was not available from BARD or their state library but
was available from another state's library, they could still download it
from the Shelf Project database.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Chris,
Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date
libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for
download online.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Haiti,
>
> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
> that he checked all formats.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hi Humberto,
>>
>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>> cartrage for the nls player?
>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>> older book that might be a good source.
>>
>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>
>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I
>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in
>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If
>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot
>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the
>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will
>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Homberto,
>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to
>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource
>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>
>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick
>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for
>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've
>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>
>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the
>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my
>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me
>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends
>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust
>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>> could try?
>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Humberto
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:19:49 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:19:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid><F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>	<000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
	<CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com>

Brandon, Humberto and all;

	Blio could work. If none of these more accessible options work
(which is probably very unlikely,) I'd go with Nook before Kindle. At least
the Nook app for iOS is accessible if you have an iOS device. Speaking of
iOS. What about iBooks?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith
Biggs
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Hello,
Does Blio not have it?
If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the book,
you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted Kindle
Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Kirt,

Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many state
libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state NLS
libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody needed a
book which was not available from BARD or their state library but was
available from another state's library, they could still download it from
the Shelf Project database.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

Chris,
Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date
libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for
download online.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Haiti,
>
> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could 
> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming 
> that he checked all formats.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hi Humberto,
>>
>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS 
>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on 
>> cartrage for the nls player?
>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although 
>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't 
>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an 
>> older book that might be a good source.
>>
>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>
>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I 
>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in 
>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If 
>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot 
>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the 
>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will 
>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Homberto,
>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to 
>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Homberto,
>>>  Maybe your university library or your local public library has an 
>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of 
>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any 
>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource 
>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>
>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English 
>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick 
>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for 
>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've 
>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>
>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on 
>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the 
>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my 
>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me 
>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends 
>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust 
>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I 
>>> could try?
>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Humberto
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:22:35 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:22:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>

LaVonya,

	Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would,
and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION

 is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lavanya,
> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the message on
the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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> %40gmail.com
> 
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:27:00 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:27:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>

And how do I. Send it?

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would,
> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Lavanya,
>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the message on
> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>> 
>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
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> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>> ail.com
> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> om
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:30:38 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001301cdf5c3$0fd6b6d0$2f842470$@gmail.com>

Sarah,

	Actually, you don't. To select the send button using your
BrailleNote as a Braille display for your iPhone, press space with dots 1-4
from the message text field to scroll to the send button. When you see "send
button" on your Braille display, press space with dots 3-6. Space with 3-6
is the BrailleNote's equivalent to doing a double tap command, so this is
how you select any button on your iPhone when using your BrailleNote as a
Braille display with it.

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION

Hi Lavanya,
On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the message on
the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION

HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:35:48 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:35:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>

LaVonya,

	If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
on your keyboard.

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION

And how do I. Send it?

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
> Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Lavanya,
>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>> message on
> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>> 
>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>> m
>> ail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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om



From gpaikens at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:46:33 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:46:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid><F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>	<000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
	<CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <842C1E58-3AB3-4A29-84AC-C611983EAEAE@gmail.com>

Yes, check out ibooks, nook, and google play.  These are all accessible and often the ebook version is less expensive than the audio recorded version you find in iTunes or audible.  


On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brandon, Humberto and all;
> 
> 	Blio could work. If none of these more accessible options work
> (which is probably very unlikely,) I'd go with Nook before Kindle. At least
> the Nook app for iOS is accessible if you have an iOS device. Speaking of
> iOS. What about iBooks?
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith
> Biggs
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
> 
> Hello,
> Does Blio not have it?
> If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the book,
> you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
> They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted Kindle
> Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
> 
> Kirt,
> 
> Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many state
> libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state NLS
> libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody needed a
> book which was not available from BARD or their state library but was
> available from another state's library, they could still download it from
> the Shelf Project database.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
> 
> Chris,
> Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various date
> libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available for
> download online.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Haiti,
>> 
>> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could 
>> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming 
>> that he checked all formats.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Humberto,
>>> 
>>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS 
>>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on 
>>> cartrage for the nls player?
>>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although 
>>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't 
>>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an 
>>> older book that might be a good source.
>>> 
>>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Homberto,
>>>> 
>>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I 
>>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in 
>>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If 
>>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot 
>>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the 
>>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will 
>>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>> 
>>>> Homberto,
>>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to 
>>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Homberto,
>>>> Maybe your university library or your local public library has an 
>>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of 
>>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any 
>>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource 
>>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>> 
>>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English 
>>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick 
>>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for 
>>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've 
>>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>> 
>>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on 
>>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the 
>>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my 
>>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me 
>>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends 
>>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust 
>>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I 
>>>> could try?
>>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> 
>>>> Humberto
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
>> mail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
> l.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 22:25:20 2013
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:25:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Hadley eConnect, January 18, 2013
In-Reply-To: <0.1.7B.DBC.1CDF5A84C6A0338.0@drone095.ral.icpbounce.com>
References: <0.1.7B.DBC.1CDF5A84C6A0338.0@drone095.ral.icpbounce.com>
Message-ID: <007e01cdf5ca$b4bbae10$1e330a30$@gmail.com>

 
 
From: The Hadley School for the Blind [mailto:mailinglist at hadley.edu] 
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 10:19 AM
To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
Subject: Hadley eConnect, January 18, 2013
 
 
 

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In this issue...
 
Next Seminars at Hadley Presents: The Keys to Successful Nondriving and UEB &
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Seminars at Hadley Presents: The Keys to Successful Nondriving
 
Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013
 
Time: 10:00 AM CST, 16:00 GMT 
Face it, having a driver's license is viewed as a key to independence. Also
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Join Seminars at Hadley as L. Penny Rosenblum, Ph.D., associate professor of
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 02:28:42 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 21:28:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <842C1E58-3AB3-4A29-84AC-C611983EAEAE@gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
	<F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
	<000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
	<CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com>
	<842C1E58-3AB3-4A29-84AC-C611983EAEAE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYToJrQaKj1xoDq1P7Z8NcaX=YbYMAw+OrDdZ+J40Gr8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I was quite impressed by the IBooks and Google Books apps (Haven't
played around with Google Play yet but just the regular old book app
was pretty accessible with voiceover too).  Good luck.

On 1/18/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, check out ibooks, nook, and google play.  These are all accessible and
> often the ebook version is less expensive than the audio recorded version
> you find in iTunes or audible.
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Brandon, Humberto and all;
>>
>> 	Blio could work. If none of these more accessible options work
>> (which is probably very unlikely,) I'd go with Nook before Kindle. At
>> least
>> the Nook app for iOS is accessible if you have an iOS device. Speaking of
>> iOS. What about iBooks?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
>> Keith
>> Biggs
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Hello,
>> Does Blio not have it?
>> If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the book,
>> you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
>> They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted
>> Kindle
>> Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Kirt,
>>
>> Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many state
>> libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state NLS
>> libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody needed
>> a
>> book which was not available from BARD or their state library but was
>> available from another state's library, they could still download it from
>> the Shelf Project database.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Chris,
>> Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various
>> date
>> libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available
>> for
>> download online.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Haiti,
>>>
>>> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
>>> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
>>> that he checked all formats.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Humberto,
>>>>
>>>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>>>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>>>> cartrage for the nls player?
>>>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>>>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>>>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>>>> older book that might be a good source.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>>
>>>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I
>>>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in
>>>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If
>>>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot
>>>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the
>>>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will
>>>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>>>
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to
>>>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>> Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
>>>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource
>>>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick
>>>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for
>>>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've
>>>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
>>>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the
>>>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my
>>>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me
>>>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends
>>>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust
>>>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>>>> could try?
>>>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Humberto
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
>>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 03:00:52 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:00:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
	<001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03FB9DAC-2C06-4EED-A616-5CE59FDF85F4@gmail.com>

Thank u. I will tell her

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:35, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
> display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
> the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
> on your keyboard.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> And how do I. Send it?
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> LaVonya,
>> 
>>   Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
>> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>> Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>> 
>> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Lavanya,
>>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>>> message on
>> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>> 
>>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>>> m
>>> ail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>> ail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From daviddod at buffalo.edu  Sat Jan 19 15:02:09 2013
From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:02:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Diversity in Disability: Registration 2013 Symposium!
Message-ID: <CAGiF6MFQXdzGO7WrtZ4MogBx+BN7OfENL73+5jX9QJpXym0rFw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
Below Is the registration website for the 2013 Diversity in Disability
symposium. If you have any problems regiistering please let me know.

https://www.ubevents.org/event/symposium2013

David

On Sunday, December 2, 2012, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> On behalf of the Diversity in Disability Planning Committee (DDPC) at the
University at Buffalo (UB) I would like to present to you UB's second
Diversity in Disability symposium: "Advocacy in Our Backyard". Please note
that this event is free, includes lunch, and is open to anyone wishing to
participate!
>
>
> Diversity in Disability Symposium 2013
>
> “Advocacy in Our Backyard”
>
> WHO:
> Bruce Darling
> President/CEO
> Center for Disability Rights, Inc.
> Community Organizer
> ADAPT
> http://cdrnys.org/
>
> Dr. Lauren J. Lieberman, PhD.
> Director
> Camp Abilities
> www.campabilities.org
>
> Diana Landwehr
> Director of Support and Advocacy
> Headway of Western NY Inc.
> http://www.headwayofwny.org/
>
>

-- 
----------------------------------
David Dodge
Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson
English Major
University at Buffalo
306 Clemens Hall
Buffalo, NY 14260
daviddod at buffalo.edu

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 17:37:51 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjM9ysOzkrQFExypGuupYXztOVTN-QXxjfzueEtTVgxGMw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Nabs-ters,

  I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?

 did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
    Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!

  Have a great day!

  Darian

-- 
Darian Smith


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 18:09:41 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 12:09:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
Message-ID: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>

Darian,=20I=20currently=20take=20french=20II.=20I'm=20a=20sophmore=20in=20h=
igh=20
school.=20Braille=20is=20the=20best=20way=20to=20learn=20a=20foreign=20lang=
uage.=20That=20
way,=20you=20can=20learn=20what=20the=20different=20accents=20feel=20like.=
=20I=20use=20a=20
braillenote=20for=20the=20class,=20which=20I=20find=20very=20easy=20because=
=20it=20has=20
a=20french=20option=20built-in=20to=20the=20utilities=20menu.=20Is=20this=20=
the=20first=20
language=20class=20you've=20ever=20taken?=20Because=20if=20so,=20they=20sho=
uld=20
teach=20you=20the=20rules=20of=20grammar=20in=20the=20class=20itself.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Darian=20Smith=20<dsmithnfb at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Sat,=2019=20Jan=202013=2009:37:51=20-0800
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Studying=20Foreign=20languages

Greetings=20Nabs-ters,

=20=20I=20was=20wondering=20how=20many=20of=20you=20have=20taken=20a=20=20=
=20foreign=20Language
course,=20even=20majored=20in=20a=20language=20and=20what=20methods=20did=20=
you=20use=20
to
gain=20a=20proper=20understanding=20of=20the=20written=20rules=20and=20=20p=
roper=20
usage?

=20did=20you=20learn=20via=20braille?=20Or=20=20Print?=20=20Or=20Reader?
=20=20=20=20Thanks=20in=20advance=20=20for=20your=20thoughtful=20responses!=


=20=20Have=20a=20great=20day!

=20=20Darian

--
Darian=20Smith


Text=20the=20word=20BLIND=20to=2085944=20to=20donate=20$10=20to=20the=20NFB=
=20Imagination=20
Fund
via=20your=20phone=20bill.

The=20time=20is=20now=20to=20eliminate=20Subminimum=20Wages=20for=20People=
=20with=20
Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


=93We=20know=20not=20of=20our=20future,=20but=20we=20know=20of=20our=20past=
.=20A=20past=20that=20
is
made=20up=20of=20our=20ancestor=92s=20Dreams,=20their=20stories=20and=20hop=
es.
These=20sights=20once=20seen,=20sounds=20heard=20and=20emotions=20felt=20ar=
e=20now=20
our
knowledge.=20The=20knowledge=20that=20guides=20us=20to=20this=20very=20mome=
nt=85=94
-Darian=20Smith

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 18:23:55 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:23:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>

I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I, like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken lessons.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school. Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken? Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class itself.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
> 
> Greetings Nabs-ters,
> 
> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
> 
> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>   Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
> 
> Have a great day!
> 
> Darian
> 
> --
> Darian Smith
> 
> 
> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
> via your phone bill.
> 
> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
> 
> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
> 
> 
> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
> -Darian Smith
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 18:31:56 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:31:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>

Hi there! I have majored in Spanish and German. Sophie is correct. Brailtle is the best way to learn a foreign language!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I, like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken lessons.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school. Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken? Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class itself.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
>> 
>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
>> 
>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
>> 
>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
>> 
>> Have a great day!
>> 
>> Darian
>> 
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> 
>> 
>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>> via your phone bill.
>> 
>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>> 
>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>> 
>> 
>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>> -Darian Smith
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 19:30:56 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:30:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
	<67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DLEbvREJmWFLOt_XMBPnaL3+86mz_VMgeqxjn+Ps+TXCw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.  I also would recommend using braille for everything you can when
studying a foreign language.  I am about to finish my German major,
and I notice that I do so much better when I am using braille rather
than audio.  I use my braille note in class, which helps when we're
required to do group activities, read aloud, or take notes.  Also, I
had to work hard to get the access office at my school to pay for my
German books to be made in braille.  They did not want to provide me
with braille, but IMO you can't learn a foreign language well unless
you see the spelling, sentence structure, and can read it aloud a bit.
 If you are beginning a foreign language, there will need to be some
acomidations in class because the books are full of pictures.  If you
get the book in braille, the pictures should be described, but some
in-class activities may need to be changed so that you can
participate.  You probably already know...  But keep in contact with
your professor and let him know what will help you learn the best.

On 1/19/13, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there! I have majored in Spanish and German. Sophie is correct. Brailtle
> is the best way to learn a foreign language!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I,
>> like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I
>> was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken
>> lessons.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school.
>>> Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can
>>> learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the
>>> class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to
>>> the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken?
>>> Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
>>>
>>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
>>>
>>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
>>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
>>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
>>>
>>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
>>>
>>> Have a great day!
>>>
>>> Darian
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>>
>>>
>>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>>> via your phone bill.
>>>
>>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with
>>> Disabilities
>>>
>>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>>>
>>>
>>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>>> -Darian Smith
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 19:37:04 2013
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:37:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>

I know that the BrailleNote supports the older version of Microsoft
Word, but has anybody heard of any plans by HumanWare to make document
conversion from Word 2010 possible? It seems like this should be
possible, since I know the newest version of Keysoft can convert PDFs.
Does anybody know about this?
Patrick


From carlymih at comcast.net  Sat Jan 19 19:49:26 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:49:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DLEbvREJmWFLOt_XMBPnaL3+86mz_VMgeqxjn+Ps+TXCw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
	<67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DLEbvREJmWFLOt_XMBPnaL3+86mz_VMgeqxjn+Ps+TXCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130119113700.01ca7a68@comcast.net>

Hi, I would absolutely agree. Braille, braille braille!
When a study of Japanese language was in its 
infancy, I could only write the words in Romaji 
(Romanize script in which the 26 English 
equivalents are used to approximate the sound of 
the hiragana (Japanese characters) yet, Upon 
becoming slightly more intermediate, my Dad 
researched the tenji (braille) code on the 
Internet so I was able to write hiraganna 
(Japanese characters) as they ought to be expressed.
Indeed, it made all the difference!
For me however, I count the braille code as one 
of my friends or lovers who have, ever so sadly, found an untimely demise.:
>Hi.  I also would recommend using braille for everything you can when
>studying a foreign language.  I am about to finish my German major,
>and I notice that I do so much better when I am using braille rather
>than audio.  I use my braille note in class, which helps when we're
>required to do group activities, read aloud, or take notes.  Also, I
>had to work hard to get the access office at my school to pay for my
>German books to be made in braille.  They did not want to provide me
>with braille, but IMO you can't learn a foreign language well unless
>you see the spelling, sentence structure, and can read it aloud a bit.
>  If you are beginning a foreign language, there will need to be some
>acomidations in class because the books are full of pictures.  If you
>get the book in braille, the pictures should be described, but some
>in-class activities may need to be changed so that you can
>participate.  You probably already know...  But keep in contact with
>your professor and let him know what will help you learn the best.
>
>On 1/19/13, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there! I have majored in Spanish and German. Sophie is correct. Brailtle
> > is the best way to learn a foreign language!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I,
> >> like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I
> >> was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken
> >> lessons.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school.
> >>> Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can
> >>> learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the
> >>> class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to
> >>> the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken?
> >>> Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class
> >>> itself.
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
> >>>
> >>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
> >>>
> >>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
> >>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
> >>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
> >>>
> >>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
> >>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
> >>>
> >>> Have a great day!
> >>>
> >>> Darian
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Darian Smith
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
> >>> via your phone bill.
> >>>
> >>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with
> >>> Disabilities
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
> >>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
> >>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
> >>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment
”
> >>> -Darian Smith
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> >>> r%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Julie McG
>National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>life."
>John 3:16
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 20:43:55 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:43:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20130119113700.01ca7a68@comcast.net>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
	<67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DLEbvREJmWFLOt_XMBPnaL3+86mz_VMgeqxjn+Ps+TXCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130119113700.01ca7a68@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D1237DF0-D420-4ED1-9724-758CA0646DB5@gmail.com>

Darian,
To agree with the others, definitely use braille if you have access to it.  I used braille in my high school spanish courses and it was a big help.

I also minored in spanish as an undergrad without using any braille.  I wish I had pushed to get braille, but I didn't and I still made it through.  I was able to get some of my textbooks in electronic format and used JAWS in Spanish to read them.  I also had to hire several readers who helped me access textbooks I could not find in an accessible format.  

REally learning the rules of the language came through usage and imitation more than studying written texts.  This could just be my learning preference though.

Best of luck,
Greg

On Jan 19, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi, I would absolutely agree. Braille, braille braille!
> When a study of Japanese language was in its infancy, I could only write the words in Romaji (Romanize script in which the 26 English equivalents are used to approximate the sound of the hiragana (Japanese characters) yet, Upon becoming slightly more intermediate, my Dad researched the tenji (braille) code on the Internet so I was able to write hiraganna (Japanese characters) as they ought to be expressed.
> Indeed, it made all the difference!
> For me however, I count the braille code as one of my friends or lovers who have, ever so sadly, found an untimely demise.:
>> Hi.  I also would recommend using braille for everything you can when
>> studying a foreign language.  I am about to finish my German major,
>> and I notice that I do so much better when I am using braille rather
>> than audio.  I use my braille note in class, which helps when we're
>> required to do group activities, read aloud, or take notes.  Also, I
>> had to work hard to get the access office at my school to pay for my
>> German books to be made in braille.  They did not want to provide me
>> with braille, but IMO you can't learn a foreign language well unless
>> you see the spelling, sentence structure, and can read it aloud a bit.
>> If you are beginning a foreign language, there will need to be some
>> acomidations in class because the books are full of pictures.  If you
>> get the book in braille, the pictures should be described, but some
>> in-class activities may need to be changed so that you can
>> participate.  You probably already know...  But keep in contact with
>> your professor and let him know what will help you learn the best.
>> 
>> On 1/19/13, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi there! I have majored in Spanish and German. Sophie is correct. Brailtle
>> > is the best way to learn a foreign language!
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I,
>> >> like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I
>> >> was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken
>> >> lessons.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school.
>> >>> Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can
>> >>> learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the
>> >>> class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to
>> >>> the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken?
>> >>> Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class
>> >>> itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
>> >>>
>> >>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
>> >>>
>> >>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
>> >>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
>> >>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
>> >>>
>> >>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>> >>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
>> >>>
>> >>> Have a great day!
>> >>>
>> >>> Darian
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Darian Smith
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>> >>> via your phone bill.
>> >>>
>> >>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with
>> >>> Disabilities
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>> >>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>> >>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>> >>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>> >>> -Darian Smith
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> >>> r%40gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From maurice.mines at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 21:57:06 2013
From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:57:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CABDhueuUZkhtP2+xS9s_hRZg+XsCDEC1pgOX9k0er2X+3D9zMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuiiDEOGVT5ARrBpAHe76ssD1bmBkWSF_HggcKjSpuN+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuUZkhtP2+xS9s_hRZg+XsCDEC1pgOX9k0er2X+3D9zMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA8647F-F6D2-46C3-847C-CDDB639352B3@gmail.com>

 hello, number when you get a chance please give me a call, a.k.a. right me off list I have some information to impart to you that might be helpful. When you send me the private email please put the subject line looking for an alternative means of getting this book in the subject line that way I know it is from you and I will give you my phone number. Sincerely Maurice, national Federation of the blind of Washington Park County chapter secretary. Amateur radio call sign KD0IKO.

From beckyasabo at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 22:24:01 2013
From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (Becky Sabo)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:24:01 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CAA8647F-F6D2-46C3-847C-CDDB639352B3@gmail.com>
References: <003801cdf526$381735e0$a845a1a0$@gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuiiDEOGVT5ARrBpAHe76ssD1bmBkWSF_HggcKjSpuN+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhueuUZkhtP2+xS9s_hRZg+XsCDEC1pgOX9k0er2X+3D9zMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA8647F-F6D2-46C3-847C-CDDB639352B3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE5A18F7-6603-459A-9BF0-809DEB2265B3@gmail.com>

Hi Maurice 
This is Becky Sabo. Give me a call or write me off list.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Maurice Mines <maurice.mines at gmail.com> wrote:

hello, number when you get a chance please give me a call, a.k.a. right me off list I have some information to impart to you that might be helpful. When you send me the private email please put the subject line looking for an alternative means of getting this book in the subject line that way I know it is from you and I will give you my phone number. Sincerely Maurice, national Federation of the blind of Washington Park County chapter secretary. Amateur radio call sign KD0IKO.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 22:51:39 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:51:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYToJrQaKj1xoDq1P7Z8NcaX=YbYMAw+OrDdZ+J40Gr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com><CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com><1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid><F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com><000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com><CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2><000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com><842C1E58-3AB3-4A29-84AC-C611983EAEAE@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYToJrQaKj1xoDq1P7Z8NcaX=YbYMAw+OrDdZ+J40Gr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28014A9EB96A48BDADF25CA745F438C6@OwnerPC>

are ibooks electronic form? I prefer human speech and when I have more extra 
money I'm joining audible. They have lots of great books read by 
professional narrators.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 9:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?

I was quite impressed by the IBooks and Google Books apps (Haven't
played around with Google Play yet but just the regular old book app
was pretty accessible with voiceover too).  Good luck.

On 1/18/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, check out ibooks, nook, and google play.  These are all accessible 
> and
> often the ebook version is less expensive than the audio recorded version
> you find in iTunes or audible.
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Brandon, Humberto and all;
>>
>> Blio could work. If none of these more accessible options work
>> (which is probably very unlikely,) I'd go with Nook before Kindle. At
>> least
>> the Nook app for iOS is accessible if you have an iOS device. Speaking of
>> iOS. What about iBooks?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
>> Keith
>> Biggs
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Hello,
>> Does Blio not have it?
>> If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the book,
>> you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
>> They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted
>> Kindle
>> Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Kirt,
>>
>> Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many state
>> libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state NLS
>> libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody needed
>> a
>> book which was not available from BARD or their state library but was
>> available from another state's library, they could still download it from
>> the Shelf Project database.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>
>> Chris,
>> Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various
>> date
>> libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available
>> for
>> download online.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Haiti,
>>>
>>> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
>>> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
>>> that he checked all formats.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Humberto,
>>>>
>>>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>>>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>>>> cartrage for the nls player?
>>>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>>>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>>>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>>>> older book that might be a good source.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>>
>>>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I
>>>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in
>>>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If
>>>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot
>>>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the
>>>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will
>>>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>>>
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to
>>>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>> Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
>>>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource
>>>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick
>>>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for
>>>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've
>>>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
>>>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the
>>>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my
>>>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me
>>>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends
>>>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust
>>>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>>>> could try?
>>>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Humberto
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
>>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 23:13:09 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:13:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <394CD8FA-7871-4482-AB4B-6106BFE44068@gmail.com>

Hi, apex will still only support word 2003 document. It has been requested that 2007 also be supported and I hope to see  them  implement this feature soon.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know that the BrailleNote supports the older version of Microsoft
> Word, but has anybody heard of any plans by HumanWare to make document
> conversion from Word 2010 possible? It seems like this should be
> possible, since I know the newest version of Keysoft can convert PDFs.
> Does anybody know about this?
> Patrick
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 20 00:10:16 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:10:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
In-Reply-To: <394CD8FA-7871-4482-AB4B-6106BFE44068@gmail.com>
References: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<394CD8FA-7871-4482-AB4B-6106BFE44068@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B054532771947A3A824EA366D324769@OwnerPC>

who is the point of contact to suggest new features? I will strongly urge 
humanware to support .docx files in their next keysoft upgrade. They do 
support it  in the victor stratus, the daisy player, so I don't understand 
why they have not supported it with the  apex. It must be frustrating having 
to convert Word files of 2007 or later to  lower versions or  .rtf.
Here's hoping they listen and help us out.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word

Hi, apex will still only support word 2003 document. It has been requested 
that 2007 also be supported and I hope to see  them  implement this feature 
soon.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know that the BrailleNote supports the older version of Microsoft
> Word, but has anybody heard of any plans by HumanWare to make document
> conversion from Word 2010 possible? It seems like this should be
> possible, since I know the newest version of Keysoft can convert PDFs.
> Does anybody know about this?
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 00:43:31 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:43:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
Message-ID: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>

Hey folks,
Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real  deep in  community service activities.

Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
 

This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 01:07:37 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:07:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
In-Reply-To: <2B054532771947A3A824EA366D324769@OwnerPC>
References: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<394CD8FA-7871-4482-AB4B-6106BFE44068@gmail.com>
	<2B054532771947A3A824EA366D324769@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E0C2DF93-6C89-4100-AADF-E482D578849B@gmail.com>

Support at humanware.com

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 19, 2013, at 5:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> who is the point of contact to suggest new features? I will strongly urge humanware to support .docx files in their next keysoft upgrade. They do support it  in the victor stratus, the daisy player, so I don't understand why they have not supported it with the  apex. It must be frustrating having to convert Word files of 2007 or later to  lower versions or  .rtf.
> Here's hoping they listen and help us out.
> -----Original Message----- From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:13 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
> 
> Hi, apex will still only support word 2003 document. It has been requested that 2007 also be supported and I hope to see  them  implement this feature soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I know that the BrailleNote supports the older version of Microsoft
>> Word, but has anybody heard of any plans by HumanWare to make document
>> conversion from Word 2010 possible? It seems like this should be
>> possible, since I know the newest version of Keysoft can convert PDFs.
>> Does anybody know about this?
>> Patrick
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 03:09:56 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:09:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
In-Reply-To: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
up the next three months of volunteer work.

On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey folks,
> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King
> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real  deep in
>  community service activities.
>
> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>
>
> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 03:12:31 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:12:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
In-Reply-To: <28014A9EB96A48BDADF25CA745F438C6@OwnerPC>
References: <50f94038.669dec0a.671c.3e3a@mx.google.com>
	<CAFja7FYcAFj13oM+a=52kReDoVi_kxfZDa6YtYj-_2ak3qsPkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1374449665102900645@unknownmsgid>
	<F9F18AAF-8CBE-4E62-BA41-158D381284D8@gmail.com>
	<000101cdf5bf$93679450$ba36bcf0$@gmail.com>
	<CD4508E5F3CE499F9E6AF6A21B169C94@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<000201cdf5c1$8d5df250$a819d6f0$@gmail.com>
	<842C1E58-3AB3-4A29-84AC-C611983EAEAE@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYToJrQaKj1xoDq1P7Z8NcaX=YbYMAw+OrDdZ+J40Gr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<28014A9EB96A48BDADF25CA745F438C6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZxrzosvPhTEY2Br2K4drbpPsQDkFy4UAad9T31PEGV_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Yes, the IBook app is great but it uses voiceover.  I am a big fan of
Audible though and they really do a good job.


On 1/19/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> are ibooks electronic form? I prefer human speech and when I have more extra
>
> money I'm joining audible. They have lots of great books read by
> professional narrators.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 9:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>
> I was quite impressed by the IBooks and Google Books apps (Haven't
> played around with Google Play yet but just the regular old book app
> was pretty accessible with voiceover too).  Good luck.
>
> On 1/18/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, check out ibooks, nook, and google play.  These are all accessible
>> and
>> often the ebook version is less expensive than the audio recorded version
>> you find in iTunes or audible.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Brandon, Humberto and all;
>>>
>>> Blio could work. If none of these more accessible options work
>>> (which is probably very unlikely,) I'd go with Nook before Kindle. At
>>> least
>>> the Nook app for iOS is accessible if you have an iOS device. Speaking
>>> of
>>> iOS. What about iBooks?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
>>> Keith
>>> Biggs
>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Does Blio not have it?
>>> If worst comes to worst and you had to wait for someone to scan the
>>> book,
>>> you can get a kindle book and read it using their dumb player.
>>> They broke the the deincription software I had so one could converted
>>> Kindle
>>> Books to HTML to read on a Braille Display or I'd give that to you.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:05 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Kirt,
>>>
>>> Yes, that is correct. There is also the SHELF project, which many state
>>> libraries are getting involved in now. This is a database where state
>>> NLS
>>> libraries upload their talking books for download. So, if somebody
>>> needed
>>> a
>>> book which was not available from BARD or their state library but was
>>> available from another state's library, they could still download it
>>> from
>>> the Shelf Project database.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:01 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Katie does make a great point. There are plenty of books in the various
>>> date
>>> libraries that Are available in hardcopy braillle But are not available
>>> for
>>> download online.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:46 PM, christopher nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Haiti,
>>>>
>>>> Bard is now merged with web Braille, so if he checked Bard and could
>>>> not find the book, it would not be available on web Braille assuming
>>>> that he checked all formats.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Humberto,
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you said you checked bard, but have you fully checked out NLS
>>>>> through web braille or calling to see if you can get a book on
>>>>> cartrage for the nls player?
>>>>> Also, Project Gutinberg is pretty good and fully accessible, although
>>>>> the book has to be in the public domain for it to be there.  I don't
>>>>> know the requirements of your assignment, but if you can choose an
>>>>> older book that might be a good source.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/18/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Barring the expense of buying it from the iTunes store or Audible, I
>>>>>> don't see what's wrong with that. Is your group reading together in
>>>>>> class or just reading the same chapters at the same time at home? If
>>>>>> that's the case, couldn't you just listen to the book at home? A lot
>>>>>> of times, we have to get creative with how we do things. And if the
>>>>>> sighted members of your group are buying the book, your expense will
>>>>>> be about the same as theirs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:01:43 -0700
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are there any other sources for books?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>>> Sorry for the double post, but I think clarifications are in order.
>>>>>> I know some public libraries and university libraries allow you to
>>>>>> check out ebooks, and I've heard that some of these are accessible.
>>>>>> That's what I was talking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/17/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Homberto,
>>>>>> Maybe your university library or your local public library has an
>>>>>> accessible check-out process?  Barring that, I can't think of
>>>>>> anything, if you're planning to stay on the right side of the law.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/17/13, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello fellow students,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides Bookshare, NLS BARD, RFB&D, Learning Ally, and any
>>>>>> cooperating Talking and book library, is there any other resource
>>>>>> that I can use to find free e-books I can read with JAWS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I am asking this questions is because my English
>>>>>> instructor has assigned reading groups, and each group is to pick
>>>>>> out a book to read together. However, the book that we've chosen for
>>>>>> my group is not to be found anywhere in any of those sites I've
>>>>>> mentioned above. I looked, and pretty much exhausted my search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only place I have found my book is in the iTunes store and on
>>>>>> Audible.com, but it costs about $20. I'm also trying to avoid the
>>>>>> hassle of buying the print copy of the book just to show my
>>>>>> Disability Support office my receipt, so they can convert it for me
>>>>>> in e-text or Braille or Audio format. Plus, all the print book ends
>>>>>> up doing anyways, is sitting for months collecting particles of dust
>>>>>> in a shelf or suitcase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, do you know of any other sites I could browse? Other ideas I
>>>>>> could try?
>>>>>> Please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, I will be an unhappy scholar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humberto
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud
>>>>>> e%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>>>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
>>>> mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 03:26:53 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:26:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <D1237DF0-D420-4ED1-9724-758CA0646DB5@gmail.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
	<67EB4B5D-543C-4075-AAF0-1EED2B39DEE9@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DLEbvREJmWFLOt_XMBPnaL3+86mz_VMgeqxjn+Ps+TXCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20130119113700.01ca7a68@comcast.net>
	<D1237DF0-D420-4ED1-9724-758CA0646DB5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZTGszMVBuPnJ7fyv9dKVCi4YqiW5ZH83YaaG8bvvxU0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I took three years of Spanish in high school and used braille for
everything I could.  for taking tests or homework I wrote on the
computer because at the time I didn't have an internet connection for
my BrailleNote and running back and forth to the printer across the
school was much less convenient than email.  I found that even writing
in word wasn't that bad though and it was pretty straight forward.

The others are absolutely right.  Use braille for anything you can get
your hands on.  My last year of Spanish the school didn't order my
book in time, and since we were on a block schedule it didn't arrive
until after my classes had changed and I didn't have Spanish any more.
 It was harder to pick up new things, especially since we were
primarily focusing on grammar and sentence structure by that point.  I
really wish I could have had braille to use as a reference, but with a
little extra work from me and my Spanish teacher I still got through a
good grade.  You may have to figure out how easy it is for you to
learn auditorally.  For some they can do it and use braille only as a
point of reference and reading for homework, but for others not having
the braille and relying only on audio can be a bit more challenging
depending on your reading style.

On 1/19/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Darian,
> To agree with the others, definitely use braille if you have access to it.
> I used braille in my high school spanish courses and it was a big help.
>
> I also minored in spanish as an undergrad without using any braille.  I wish
> I had pushed to get braille, but I didn't and I still made it through.  I
> was able to get some of my textbooks in electronic format and used JAWS in
> Spanish to read them.  I also had to hire several readers who helped me
> access textbooks I could not find in an accessible format.
>
> REally learning the rules of the language came through usage and imitation
> more than studying written texts.  This could just be my learning preference
> though.
>
> Best of luck,
> Greg
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I would absolutely agree. Braille, braille braille!
>> When a study of Japanese language was in its infancy, I could only write
>> the words in Romaji (Romanize script in which the 26 English equivalents
>> are used to approximate the sound of the hiragana (Japanese characters)
>> yet, Upon becoming slightly more intermediate, my Dad researched the tenji
>> (braille) code on the Internet so I was able to write hiraganna (Japanese
>> characters) as they ought to be expressed.
>> Indeed, it made all the difference!
>> For me however, I count the braille code as one of my friends or lovers
>> who have, ever so sadly, found an untimely demise.:
>>> Hi.  I also would recommend using braille for everything you can when
>>> studying a foreign language.  I am about to finish my German major,
>>> and I notice that I do so much better when I am using braille rather
>>> than audio.  I use my braille note in class, which helps when we're
>>> required to do group activities, read aloud, or take notes.  Also, I
>>> had to work hard to get the access office at my school to pay for my
>>> German books to be made in braille.  They did not want to provide me
>>> with braille, but IMO you can't learn a foreign language well unless
>>> you see the spelling, sentence structure, and can read it aloud a bit.
>>> If you are beginning a foreign language, there will need to be some
>>> acomidations in class because the books are full of pictures.  If you
>>> get the book in braille, the pictures should be described, but some
>>> in-class activities may need to be changed so that you can
>>> participate.  You probably already know...  But keep in contact with
>>> your professor and let him know what will help you learn the best.
>>>
>>> On 1/19/13, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi there! I have majored in Spanish and German. Sophie is correct.
>>> > Brailtle
>>> > is the best way to learn a foreign language!
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote
>>> >> notetaker. I,
>>> >> like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that
>>> >> I
>>> >> was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the
>>> >> spoken
>>> >> lessons.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school.
>>> >>> Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you
>>> >>> can
>>> >>> learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever
>>> >>> taken?
>>> >>> Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the
>>> >>> class
>>> >>> itself.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
>>> >>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
>>> >>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>>> >>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Have a great day!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Darian
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Darian Smith
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination
>>> >>> Fund
>>> >>> via your phone bill.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with
>>> >>> Disabilities
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>>> >>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>>> >>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>>> >>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>>> >>> -Darian Smith
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> nabs-l:
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> >>> r%40gmail.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> nabs-l:
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 20 06:59:56 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:59:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
In-Reply-To: <74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
References: <50fae182.0c0a650a.27c3.4ebe@mx.google.com>
	<74080C47-C827-424B-A980-C13C509C92D5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU401-EAS1067D7142C76FDF8959CFD9CB100@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPod

On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:25 PM, "Josh Gregory" <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I myself took Spanish in high school, and used a braillenote notetaker. I, like Sophie, use the Spanish option in the utilities menu. I find that I was mainly able to pick up the lecture through both braille and the spoken lessons.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Darian, I currently take french II. I'm a sophmore in high school. Braille is the best way to learn a foreign language. That way, you can learn what the different accents feel like. I use a braillenote for the class, which I find very easy because it has a french option built-in to the utilities menu. Is this the first language class you've ever taken? Because if so, they should teach you the rules of grammar in the class itself.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:37:51 -0800
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Foreign languages
>> 
>> Greetings Nabs-ters,
>> 
>> I was wondering how many of you have taken a   foreign Language
>> course, even majored in a language and what methods did you use to
>> gain a proper understanding of the written rules and  proper usage?
>> 
>> did you learn via braille? Or  Print?  Or Reader?
>>  Thanks in advance  for your thoughtful responses!
>> 
>> Have a great day!
>> 
>> Darian
>> 
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> 
>> 
>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>> via your phone bill.
>> 
>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>> 
>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>> 
>> 
>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>> -Darian Smith
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.cDear Darian:


I took Spanish 1 for two years in 8th grade and 9th grade, and I also took Spanish 2 my sophtmore year of high school.
I used my BrailleNote for my classwork and homework assignments.
I like the different braille acents in the Spanish lanuage.
I wanted to do Spanish 3 last year, but my Mom told me that it was really hard.
She took two years of Spanish as well.
Thanks for reading, and good luck with your course!
Preston Gaylor

From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 20 07:21:57 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:21:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
In-Reply-To: <E0C2DF93-6C89-4100-AADF-E482D578849B@gmail.com>
References: <CAN+-G_Cwy1yDtPHFbUXaQQx8jHsuXm7ZLaEkmSFM=8Lj6opV4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<394CD8FA-7871-4482-AB4B-6106BFE44068@gmail.com>
	<2B054532771947A3A824EA366D324769@OwnerPC>
	<E0C2DF93-6C89-4100-AADF-E482D578849B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS4157B099F37FAC0DC5E341BCB100@phx.gbl>

Hi all,
I agree!
HumanWare should make arrangements to make docx files accessible on the Braillenote!
I hope that this will happen soon, I guess we will have to see!
Thanks,
Preston

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 19, 2013, at 8:08 PM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Support at humanware.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 5:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> who is the point of contact to suggest new features? I will strongly urge humanware to support .docx files in their next keysoft upgrade. They do support it  in the victor stratus, the daisy player, so I don't understand why they have not supported it with the  apex. It must be frustrating having to convert Word files of 2007 or later to  lower versions or  .rtf.
>> Here's hoping they listen and help us out.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer
>> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:13 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about BrailleNote and MS word
>> 
>> Hi, apex will still only support word 2003 document. It has been requested that 2007 also be supported and I hope to see  them  implement this feature soon.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
>> 
>> On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I know that the BrailleNote supports the older version of Microsoft
>>> Word, but has anybody heard of any plans by HumanWare to make document
>>> conversion from Word 2010 possible? It seems like this should be
>>> possible, since I know the newest version of Keysoft can convert PDFs.
>>> Does anybody know about this?
>>> Patrick
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 20 17:06:10 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:06:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
	<001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS206AF6F64674E088F307601DC100@phx.gbl>

Make sure the quick navigation (quick Nav) functions are working. 
To do this, press together, the left and right arrows.  Make sure the quick nav is on.  Then tap to the right to you here the send button.  Press the up and down arrows together to activate the command.  Pressing enter does not work in this situation.  Hope this helps.



Sent from my iPad

On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:36 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
> display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
> the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
> on your keyboard.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
> 
> And how do I. Send it?
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> LaVonya,
>> 
>>   Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
>> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>> Gardner
>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>> 
>> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Lavanya,
>>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>>> message on
>> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>> 
>>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>> %40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>>> m
>>> ail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>> ail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 18:15:49 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:15:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS206AF6F64674E088F307601DC100@phx.gbl>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
	<001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS206AF6F64674E088F307601DC100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <071C1721-D32F-474F-AE4A-B15E42C8AD4D@gmail.com>

 is that for a bluth keyboard

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 20, 2013, at 12:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Make sure the quick navigation (quick Nav) functions are working. 
> To do this, press together, the left and right arrows.  Make sure the quick nav is on.  Then tap to the right to you here the send button.  Press the up and down arrows together to activate the command.  Pressing enter does not work in this situation.  Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:36 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> LaVonya,
>> 
>>   If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
>> display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
>> the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
>> on your keyboard.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>> 
>> And how do I. Send it?
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>> 
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> LaVonya,
>>> 
>>>  Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
>>> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>>> Gardner
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>> 
>>> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Lavanya,
>>>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>>>> message on
>>> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>> 
>>>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>>>> m
>>>> ail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>>> ail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 20 18:44:04 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:44:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <071C1721-D32F-474F-AE4A-B15E42C8AD4D@gmail.com>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
	<001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS206AF6F64674E088F307601DC100@phx.gbl>
	<071C1721-D32F-474F-AE4A-B15E42C8AD4D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU401-EAS3366ED4540B22AB1335D945DC100@phx.gbl>

> Yes, it is.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 20, 2013, at 1:17 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> is that for a bluth keyboard
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 20, 2013, at 12:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Make sure the quick navigation (quick Nav) functions are working. 
>> To do this, press together, the left and right arrows.  Make sure the quick nav is on.  Then tap to the right to you here the send button.  Press the up and down arrows together to activate the command.  Pressing enter does not work in this situation.  Hope this helps.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:36 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> LaVonya,
>>> 
>>>  If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
>>> display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
>>> the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
>>> on your keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>> 
>>> And how do I. Send it?
>>> 
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> LaVonya,
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
>>>> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>>>> Gardner
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>> 
>>>> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Lavanya,
>>>>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>>>>> message on
>>>> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>>> 
>>>>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>>>>> m
>>>>> ail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>>>> mail.c
>>>> om
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 19:51:14 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:51:14 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Help Needed with Brief research Study
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBuWC6NE2-CzW7Qs__92K4DE4XNtYOMZ770c13Dc2L01A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I am assisting two high school seniors, Flora Richey and Zivvy
Epstein, with conducting a psychology study for their research seminar
class. They are doing a study to investigate how totally blind people
mentally "visualize" emotionally laden situations and make moral
judgments about those situations. If you are totally blind (light
perception or less) and have been totally blind (or had light
perception only) since birth or before age 2, we would appreciate if
you could take this brief survey at
http://ucsas.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_01A5adetVQ06GlT
The survey should take no more than 15 minutes to complete, and in
compensation for your time, you will be entered into a raffle drawing
for a $20 Amazon.com gift certificate. Please complete the survey by
Sunday, January 27, if you can so that Zivvy and Flora will have time
to analyze the results and write up a presentation for their science
fair in late February.
We would also appreciate if you could forward this link to anyone else
you know who has been totally blind since birth or before age 2.
Thanks in advance for your assistance. If you have any questions
before starting the survey, you can email me off-list at
arielle71 at gmail.com
Best,
Arielle


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 21:45:57 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:45:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>

Yea APO!  I'm an APO alum and had tons of wonderful community service experiences with them in college.

The elementary school I work at now is having a day of service tomorrow by inviting teachers, students, and families to come clean up the road that runs by our school.  It should be a great way to reach out to the neighborhoods around the school.  I plan to participate, especially since I am a resident of one of those neighborhoods. :)

Enjoy your day of service.  

-Greg

On Jan 19, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
> one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
> service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
> Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
> the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
> year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
> discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
> be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
> up the next three months of volunteer work.
> 
> On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King
>> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
>> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real  deep in
>> community service activities.
>> 
>> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>> 
>> 
>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 21:58:24 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:58:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
In-Reply-To: <216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDqzrRu_=_y0haiCQXvcUyZC3Y9gf=dkOQPew8wS4C=iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Speaking of service, I'm just wondering if anyone has had any
difficult experiences persuading people that you could still
participate in service activities in spite of blindness? If something
like this came up how did you handle it and were you successful in
advocating to be included in the activity?
As some of you know, some blind friends and I had a not-so-good
experience a few years ago when we tried to prepare a meal for folks
at Ronald McDonald House. The house manager sent someone to supervise
us, and was upset that we did not bring a sighted companion with us. I
was even told that our arrival without a sighted companion had
inconvenienced them more than it had helped them, despite the
substantial monetary donation we made to them in buying the food.
I also have a blind friend who tried to volunteer at a horseback
riding place (ironically, one that provided therapeutic horse riding
to children with disabilities). She wanted to help with grooming and
caring for the horses, and was refused because of blindness.
I hate to be so negative as it is great to see so many folks who have
successfully participated in community service. But unfortunately
discrimination does still happen. How do we overcome it and continue
to show our communities that we are capable of giving back and want to
do so?
Arielle

On 1/20/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea APO!  I'm an APO alum and had tons of wonderful community service
> experiences with them in college.
>
> The elementary school I work at now is having a day of service tomorrow by
> inviting teachers, students, and families to come clean up the road that
> runs by our school.  It should be a great way to reach out to the
> neighborhoods around the school.  I plan to participate, especially since I
> am a resident of one of those neighborhoods. :)
>
> Enjoy your day of service.
>
> -Greg
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
>> one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
>> service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
>> Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
>> the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
>> year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
>> discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
>> be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
>> up the next three months of volunteer work.
>>
>> On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey folks,
>>> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King
>>> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
>>> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real  deep
>>> in
>>> community service activities.
>>>
>>> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>>>
>>>
>>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 22:27:04 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:27:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDqzrRu_=_y0haiCQXvcUyZC3Y9gf=dkOQPew8wS4C=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqzrRu_=_y0haiCQXvcUyZC3Y9gf=dkOQPew8wS4C=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA0D1E09-AE5F-4D6E-94D3-7B73E143C7EB@gmail.com>

Hi Arielle and others,
I experienced the attitudes you described many times when participating in service activities.  I was not always successful in overcoming them, but I was most successful  when I brought a friend with me.  That might not be the most satisfying answer, but having someone who knew me and my capabilities whom I could ask to help me assess the various jobs that needed to be done was a huge help.  Having a friend helped me orient myself quickly to new tasks so that on subsequent trips to the same locations I could work independently.  Community service is often done in groups anyway, so this wasn't a weird or inconvenient thing to do.  

Other times I have volunteered by myself or found that even having a friend could not overcome these perceptions.  On one occasion, I showed up by myself to volunteer at the food pantry of my church and was immediately told to wait in line to receive my food.  They were slightly taken aback when I explained that I came to volunteer and then assigned me to a job with a "partner" who basically did everything for the two of us.  I made it a point to do as much as I could to impress that one volunteer that I worked with, demonstrating my competence so that the next time there would at least be one person there who knew I was capable of actually helping.  

Changing perceptions can be awkward and take a long time.  Finding one ally can be key, whether you bring them with you or win over one of the other volunteers.  You could even try calling the project manager ahead of time and explaining that you are concerned that other volunteers might not think you will be able to contribute.  This is straight forward and diffuses the situation before it begins.  It creates an opportunity for you to talk about what kind of things you can do and ask about what kinds of things need to be done.  

As with any other kind of misperception, projecting confidence in your own abilities goes a long way toward changing opinions.  

I hope some of this is helpful.  

Best,
Greg
On Jan 20, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> Speaking of service, I'm just wondering if anyone has had any
> difficult experiences persuading people that you could still
> participate in service activities in spite of blindness? If something
> like this came up how did you handle it and were you successful in
> advocating to be included in the activity?
> As some of you know, some blind friends and I had a not-so-good
> experience a few years ago when we tried to prepare a meal for folks
> at Ronald McDonald House. The house manager sent someone to supervise
> us, and was upset that we did not bring a sighted companion with us. I
> was even told that our arrival without a sighted companion had
> inconvenienced them more than it had helped them, despite the
> substantial monetary donation we made to them in buying the food.
> I also have a blind friend who tried to volunteer at a horseback
> riding place (ironically, one that provided therapeutic horse riding
> to children with disabilities). She wanted to help with grooming and
> caring for the horses, and was refused because of blindness.
> I hate to be so negative as it is great to see so many folks who have
> successfully participated in community service. But unfortunately
> discrimination does still happen. How do we overcome it and continue
> to show our communities that we are capable of giving back and want to
> do so?
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/20/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea APO!  I'm an APO alum and had tons of wonderful community service
>> experiences with them in college.
>> 
>> The elementary school I work at now is having a day of service tomorrow by
>> inviting teachers, students, and families to come clean up the road that
>> runs by our school.  It should be a great way to reach out to the
>> neighborhoods around the school.  I plan to participate, especially since I
>> am a resident of one of those neighborhoods. :)
>> 
>> Enjoy your day of service.
>> 
>> -Greg
>> 
>> On Jan 19, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
>>> one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
>>> service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
>>> Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
>>> the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
>>> year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
>>> discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
>>> be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
>>> up the next three months of volunteer work.
>>> 
>>> On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey folks,
>>>> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King
>>>> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
>>>> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real  deep
>>>> in
>>>> community service activities.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 02:26:09 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:26:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <BLU401-EAS3366ED4540B22AB1335D945DC100@phx.gbl>
References: <50f8ad8f.06ef440a.4d02.ffffa216@mx.google.com>
	<09EBA215-A894-4D2E-82C7-656F19E40354@gmail.com>
	<000301cdf5c1$f01df200$d059d600$@gmail.com>
	<FDF033D8-2D55-498F-B4FD-80EAFDFAA435@gmail.com>
	<001401cdf5c3$c8821ad0$59865070$@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS206AF6F64674E088F307601DC100@phx.gbl>
	<071C1721-D32F-474F-AE4A-B15E42C8AD4D@gmail.com>
	<BLU401-EAS3366ED4540B22AB1335D945DC100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A5BA3823-FA54-4E34-A748-3A81E8F0977B@gmail.com>

ok. i will try it. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 20, 2013, at 13:44, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Yes, it is.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 20, 2013, at 1:17 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> is that for a bluth keyboard
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>> 
>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 12:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Make sure the quick navigation (quick Nav) functions are working. 
>>> To do this, press together, the left and right arrows.  Make sure the quick nav is on.  Then tap to the right to you here the send button.  Press the up and down arrows together to activate the command.  Pressing enter does not work in this situation.  Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:36 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> LaVonya,
>>>> 
>>>> If you're using a Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard and not a Braille
>>>> display, I believe you will have to swipe right on your iPhone's screen to
>>>> the send button, then either double tap on the touch screen or press enter
>>>> on your keyboard.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:27 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>> 
>>>> And how do I. Send it?
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 16:22, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> LaVonya,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes. You would just go into the Messages app as you normally would, 
>>>>> and type your message using the Bluetooth keyboard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>>>>> Gardner
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:27 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>>> 
>>>>> is there a way to send the message, using her blue tooth keyboard
>>>>> 
>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 21:03, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Lavanya,
>>>>>> On my BrailleNote when it's paired to my iPhone, I can type the 
>>>>>> message on
>>>>> the keyboard but have to use the iPhone to select the send button.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:58:37 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] iPHONE QUESTION
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> HOE DO U SEND A MESSAGE ON AN IpHONE WITH A WIRELESS KEYBOARD
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US.  AUTISTICS RULE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>>>>>> m
>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>>>>> mail.c
>>>>> om
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 04:15:10 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:15:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com><CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com><216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqzrRu_=_y0haiCQXvcUyZC3Y9gf=dkOQPew8wS4C=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51B5B48471C34499A9BC8FB51A14879C@HP30910210001>

arielle.
I agree.
there are still negative experiences than the positive ones.

Blessings,
Melissa and Pj
The very least you can do in your life is figure out what you hope for. And 
the most you can do is live inside that hope. Not admire it from a distance 
but live right in it, under its roof.
Facebook: Melissa R. Green
Twitter: melissa5674
windows messenger: graduate1531 at msn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.


Hi all,
Speaking of service, I'm just wondering if anyone has had any
difficult experiences persuading people that you could still
participate in service activities in spite of blindness? If something
like this came up how did you handle it and were you successful in
advocating to be included in the activity?
As some of you know, some blind friends and I had a not-so-good
experience a few years ago when we tried to prepare a meal for folks
at Ronald McDonald House. The house manager sent someone to supervise
us, and was upset that we did not bring a sighted companion with us. I
was even told that our arrival without a sighted companion had
inconvenienced them more than it had helped them, despite the
substantial monetary donation we made to them in buying the food.
I also have a blind friend who tried to volunteer at a horseback
riding place (ironically, one that provided therapeutic horse riding
to children with disabilities). She wanted to help with grooming and
caring for the horses, and was refused because of blindness.
I hate to be so negative as it is great to see so many folks who have
successfully participated in community service. But unfortunately
discrimination does still happen. How do we overcome it and continue
to show our communities that we are capable of giving back and want to
do so?
Arielle

On 1/20/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea APO!  I'm an APO alum and had tons of wonderful community service
> experiences with them in college.
>
> The elementary school I work at now is having a day of service tomorrow by
> inviting teachers, students, and families to come clean up the road that
> runs by our school.  It should be a great way to reach out to the
> neighborhoods around the school.  I plan to participate, especially since 
> I
> am a resident of one of those neighborhoods. :)
>
> Enjoy your day of service.
>
> -Greg
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
>> one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
>> service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
>> Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
>> the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
>> year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
>> discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
>> be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
>> up the next three months of volunteer work.
>>
>> On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey folks,
>>> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther King
>>> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
>>> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real 
>>> deep
>>> in
>>> community service activities.
>>>
>>> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>>>
>>>
>>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com



From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 05:23:54 2013
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:23:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
Message-ID: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>


Hi all,
I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I 
often pair to my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented 
and he has us use a site called word-champ to do drills and take 
tests.  I find that word-champ is not always very efficient to 
use with VoiceOver.  For one, some of the words are cut off, and 
also there are often problems with the cursor jumping around a 
lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and several of my 
mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off some 
parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the 
answer.) My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of 
this situation.  My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my 
last test, and understands these problems.  We are having a 
meeting about it with the teacher on Thursday.
Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes 
with technology? What did you do about it?
Vejas


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 05:43:11 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 00:43:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
In-Reply-To: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
References: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D3D3F0E8-85B6-4ED4-A0E3-9061765EBD6F@gmail.com>

I have not, and please do not think me rude  when I say this, but I think it would be more efficient if used on a laptop. Some sites are not very  efficient on mobile devices such as iPhones and especially when technologies  such as voiceover our used..

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:23 AM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi all,
> I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I often pair to my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented and he has us use a site called word-champ to do drills and take tests.  I find that word-champ is not always very efficient to use with VoiceOver.  For one, some of the words are cut off, and also there are often problems with the cursor jumping around a lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and several of my mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off some parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the answer.) My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of this situation.  My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my last test, and understands these problems.  We are having a meeting about it with the teacher on Thursday.
> Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes with technology? What did you do about it?
> Vejas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 05:59:16 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 00:59:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
References: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <11857A2878584EEE909D43BFDE2581EB@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Are there any computers on your school's campus equipped with any screen 
reading software? If so, maybe you can take the tests on a school computer 
or if it is a college or university you can maybe take it in the disability 
services office.
Hth,
Misty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:23 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing


>
> Hi all,
> I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I often pair to 
> my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented and he has us use a 
> site called word-champ to do drills and take tests.  I find that 
> word-champ is not always very efficient to use with VoiceOver.  For one, 
> some of the words are cut off, and also there are often problems with the 
> cursor jumping around a lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and 
> several of my mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off some 
> parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the answer.) 
> My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of this situation. 
> My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my last test, and understands 
> these problems.  We are having a meeting about it with the teacher on 
> Thursday.
> Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes with 
> technology? What did you do about it?
> Vejas
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 05:57:15 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 00:57:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
In-Reply-To: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
References: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D08D58B5-6903-4226-92EF-9C464A502D0E@gmail.com>

using a computer would be wiser as the iPhone is more sensitive.
give it a try.

mauricio
On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:23 AM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi all,
> I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I often pair to my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented and he has us use a site called word-champ to do drills and take tests.  I find that word-champ is not always very efficient to use with VoiceOver.  For one, some of the words are cut off, and also there are often problems with the cursor jumping around a lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and several of my mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off some parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the answer.) My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of this situation.  My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my last test, and understands these problems.  We are having a meeting about it with the teacher on Thursday.
> Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes with technology? What did you do about it?
> Vejas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Mon Jan 21 16:52:49 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:52:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] OT: Calling All Fans Of The Former Hit TV Series From Fox
	24
Message-ID: <2248e06305fdb98763aa395ffb565c06.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

I wouldn't normally share this, but it was very special, and thought some
might care.

Hi Everyone!
I've done many different kinds of shows before. Some with different
themes; some with interviews; and of course, I've done my yearly holiday
shows.
But tonight on The Djd Invasion, we're going to have some fun.
We'll start out at 8 PM eastern with a very unique blend of songs, each
with a reason for why they're picked, and all unique in their own way. In
fact, we have one set that deals with the almost rise and eventual fall of
old relationships and the beginning of new ones, which includes a one of a
kind track, the first one we've ever played sung in the Hebrew language!

But at 9 PM eastern, anyone like me who enjoyed the tv series 24 is in for
a treat.
I had the pleasure last week of speaking with James Morrison who played
Bill Buchanan on 24 for several years. But he's more than an actor. He
makes documentaries, has his own band and more.
Tune in tonight, as I present some music from his band's first album, as
well as give you the opportunity to hear the interview. I think you'll
find it interesting and fun to hear. I know I enjoyed talking with him,
and I am really appreciative of the time James Morrison gave to Audio
Access FM and to my show.
During the show, I can be contacted either
By email at
daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm
Via skype at
audio.accessfm
Via twitter at
audioaccessfm
or if you have my personal twitter, you can reach me at
djdrocks
or give us a call during the show at
516 324 2314

Whether you want to hear the special songs, the interview, or some fun
upbeat tunes along with some requests later on, you can tune in by
visiting
http://listen.audioaccess.fm/?bgcolour=royalblue
The show starts at 8 PM eastern; the interview at 9 PM eastern.
Hope to see you all there!
>From David Dunphy, A K A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion On Audio Access FM
http://www.audioaccess.fm



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 17:09:01 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:09:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
In-Reply-To: <D08D58B5-6903-4226-92EF-9C464A502D0E@gmail.com>
References: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
	<D08D58B5-6903-4226-92EF-9C464A502D0E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZpmiq8bwknn_uNm54r5BQWPCrBTize6mGfPpoK8w=0MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would definitely recommend using a computer if you have access to
one.  If you don't, is there a braillist or someone who could go onto
the site and put the drills into braille for you?  Then you could read
from the braille, type your answers on your computer or BrailleNote,
and email them back to your teacher.

HTH

On 1/21/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> using a computer would be wiser as the iPhone is more sensitive.
> give it a try.
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:23 AM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I often pair to
>> my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented and he has us use a
>> site called word-champ to do drills and take tests.  I find that
>> word-champ is not always very efficient to use with VoiceOver.  For one,
>> some of the words are cut off, and also there are often problems with the
>> cursor jumping around a lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and
>> several of my mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off some
>> parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the answer.)
>> My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of this situation.
>> My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my last test, and understands
>> these problems.  We are having a meeting about it with the teacher on
>> Thursday.
>> Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes with
>> technology? What did you do about it?
>> Vejas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:25:50 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:25:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
Message-ID: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>

Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to 
watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:36:25 2013
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com>

I happened to listen to it online. it was wonderful. 
P.S. Also, happy Martin Luther King Day!

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:26 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day

Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to 
watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
mail.com



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 20:53:37 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:53:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] when technology interferes with testing
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZpmiq8bwknn_uNm54r5BQWPCrBTize6mGfPpoK8w=0MQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50fcd0ef.1409e00a.0d43.44ac@mx.google.com>
	<D08D58B5-6903-4226-92EF-9C464A502D0E@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZpmiq8bwknn_uNm54r5BQWPCrBTize6mGfPpoK8w=0MQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDaMqOX3s7wgQYfOdf0oTsvq9=qVpVC=aip6Rj1g8QO0g@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with all  the above. A laptop or school computer would be the
best option, and if neither of these are available, someone needs to
give you the drills and tests in Braille. Your teachers are legally
obligated to give you the tests in a format that works well and if
VoiceOver is jumping around the screen or cutting off words, that is
not a workable option.
Arielle

On 1/21/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would definitely recommend using a computer if you have access to
> one.  If you don't, is there a braillist or someone who could go onto
> the site and put the drills into braille for you?  Then you could read
> from the braille, type your answers on your computer or BrailleNote,
> and email them back to your teacher.
>
> HTH
>
> On 1/21/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> using a computer would be wiser as the iPhone is more sensitive.
>> give it a try.
>>
>> mauricio
>> On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:23 AM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I'm in Spanish level 5-6.  I use a braille-note apex which I often pair
>>> to
>>> my IPhone.  My teacher is very technology-oriented and he has us use a
>>> site called word-champ to do drills and take tests.  I find that
>>> word-champ is not always very efficient to use with VoiceOver.  For one,
>>> some of the words are cut off, and also there are often problems with
>>> the
>>> cursor jumping around a lot.  On my last test I scored very poorly and
>>> several of my mistakes were due to problems with the site (it cut off
>>> some
>>> parts of the exam and it wasn't always clear where to write the answer.)
>>> My teacher doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of this situation.
>>> My dad has seen me do drills before and saw my last test, and
>>> understands
>>> these problems.  We are having a meeting about it with the teacher on
>>> Thursday.
>>> Have any of you had a similar experience where testing interferes with
>>> technology? What did you do about it?
>>> Vejas
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From maurice.mines at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 21:08:56 2013
From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:08:56 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] hello, even though,
	I am no longer exactly a student. I am forwarding along a recent
	email with permission from the blind ham operators email list,
	concerning the apparent announcement of closings of learning ally
	recording studios. I guess the concern on the blind amateur
	radio operators list is the impact that this will have on
	blind operators being able to obtain timely license
	preparation materials. And the concern of blind amateur
	operators who just so happen to be students,
	and the impact on their programs that this may have. From what I
	vaguely remember,
	there is someone who might be monitoring this list who is a employee
	of learning ally,
	who might be willing to correspond with me so that I can help line
	operators understand a little better is to what may,
	or may not be going on. If that person can write to me off list that
	would be greatly appreciated? But if this topic is of
	interest to all of you that it might be a good idea to keep
	it on list? Are there any good suggestions? Please feel free
	to respond either way. Note that I do not believe that the
	blind amateur radio operators list is open to non-licensed
	amateurs. But I'm not 100% sure of that. I hope your weekend
	is going well and everyone is just knocking them dead in
	their classes. Sincerely Maurice,
	national Federation of the blind of Washington Clark County chapter
	secretary. Amateur radio call sign KD0 I KO.
References: <E4.53.01407.44A1BF05@louvi-msg>
Message-ID: <42A49FF4-743E-4BF3-9F69-A7182AE196E6@gmail.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Lou Kolb <loukolb at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Off Topic: Learning ally closing studios
> Date: January 19, 2013 2:12:27 PM PST
> To: BLIND-HAMS at LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG
> Reply-To: For blind ham radio operators <BLIND-HAMS at LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG>
> 
> Maurice,
> 
> I made the original post and I certainly don't have any problem with it.  Go 
> ahead and repost if you like.  73,  Lou  WA3MIX
> Lou Kolb
> Voice-over Artist:
> Radio/TV Ads, Video narrations
> Messages On-hold:
> www.loukolb.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Maurice Mines" <maurice.mines at GMAIL.COM>
> To: <BLIND-HAMS at LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG>
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Off Topic: Learning ally closing studios
> 
> 
>> hello, would it be okay to to post this to a students list that I am on =
>> to get some answers regarding learning ally? The person who is a =
>> consultant to learning ally reads the student list and so thus can =
>> answer the questions posed in this email. I know this person personally, =
>> but due to cerebral computer upgrades, and a change in computers I have =
>> managed to lose her direct email address. Please let me know if this is =
>> okay? I certainly will not be reposting this email unless I do get =
>> permission however. Also a second question if anyone knows the best way =
>> to go about retrieving, and/or changing one's a co-link password? =
>> Sincerely Maurice, national Federation of the blind of Washington Court, =
>> County chapter secretary.  amateur radio call sign KD0 I KO.= 



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 21:21:13 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <00b701cdf81d$3e5d3bd0$bb17b370$@gmail.com>

Roanna and all,

	I too listened to the inauguration ceremony online via the MusicDock
app on my iPhone and found it very moving. Although I do not always agree
with President Obama (in fact, I don't usually agree with him,) I thought
his inaugural address was both well delivered and well-written, perhaps more
memorable than his first inaugural speech. I must say also that the
commentators from Sirius XM's Potus channel gave wonderful commentary,
description and analysis from the Capitol. This description made listening
to the festivities very enjoyable for me. If only I could say the same about
the accessibility of Sirius XM's Web site and iOS app...

	Happy inauguration day and Martin Luther King holiday to all!

Chris Nusbaum

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:26 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day

Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to watch the
inauguration of our forty-fifth President.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 21 23:41:12 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 18:41:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <00b701cdf81d$3e5d3bd0$bb17b370$@gmail.com>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
	<00b701cdf81d$3e5d3bd0$bb17b370$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS278E80EEE1EDCEB3F1383ABCB170@phx.gbl>

Hello all:
I listened to the Inaugation speech on the radio on WNEW 99.1 FM out of DC.
Since I'm on the PA maryland border, I can get their signal very well!
President Obama's address was very inspiring and interesting.
I hope that his second term as president will be as better as the first one!
Happy Inaugration Day and MLK Day to all!
Preston

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 21, 2013, at 4:22 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Roanna and all,
> 
>    I too listened to the inauguration ceremony online via the MusicDock
> app on my iPhone and found it very moving. Although I do not always agree
> with President Obama (in fact, I don't usually agree with him,) I thought
> his inaugural address was both well delivered and well-written, perhaps more
> memorable than his first inaugural speech. I must say also that the
> commentators from Sirius XM's Potus channel gave wonderful commentary,
> description and analysis from the Capitol. This description made listening
> to the festivities very enjoyable for me. If only I could say the same about
> the accessibility of Sirius XM's Web site and iOS app...
> 
>    Happy inauguration day and Martin Luther King holiday to all!
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:26 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
> 
> Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to watch the
> inauguration of our forty-fifth President.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 22 01:06:13 2013
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:06:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
	<003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS8617D7ADFAC06A508D6F55DC160@phx.gbl>

I do not know where many stand; however, my meaning of this message is simple this evening.  Let us learn and be grateful for those who came before us.  DR. King, lead the way towards something special for all of us, including individuals with disabilities, and soon,those who want to conjoin as civil unionized partners.  His legacy leaves us some great quotes for personal and self development.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_
Have a great evening all.


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 21, 2013, at 1:37 PM, "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I happened to listen to it online. it was wonderful. 
> P.S. Also, happy Martin Luther King Day!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:26 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
> 
> Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to 
> watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 01:32:09 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel And Stockard)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:32:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS8617D7ADFAC06A508D6F55DC160@phx.gbl>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
	<003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com>
	<BLU405-EAS8617D7ADFAC06A508D6F55DC160@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E5F3F1DE-6700-4FF7-B643-40257B09257B@gmail.com>

Obama is actually our 44th president, he is not counted 45th because this is his second term. The inauguration was good, I really enjoyed the parade part :-) While I don't agree with most Of his politics, I pray for him every day and I pray that his presidency goes well and that our country does well next four years :-)

Laurel and Stockard

On Jan 21, 2013, at 19:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I do not know where many stand; however, my meaning of this message is simple this evening.  Let us learn and be grateful for those who came before us.  DR. King, lead the way towards something special for all of us, including individuals with disabilities, and soon,those who want to conjoin as civil unionized partners.  His legacy leaves us some great quotes for personal and self development.
> http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_
> Have a great evening all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 1:37 PM, "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I happened to listen to it online. it was wonderful. 
>> P.S. Also, happy Martin Luther King Day!
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:26 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
>> 
>> Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to 
>> watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
>> mail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 22 05:29:02 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 00:29:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <E5F3F1DE-6700-4FF7-B643-40257B09257B@gmail.com>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com><003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com><BLU405-EAS8617D7ADFAC06A508D6F55DC160@phx.gbl>
	<E5F3F1DE-6700-4FF7-B643-40257B09257B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <062DF5E2E6D147A3B75FB7550AABA903@OwnerPC>

Laurel,
Same here; while I don't always agree with his political stances, I do hope 
he leads the country well and I also pray for him and the direction of the 
country. I saw exerpts of the inaugural balls too tonight. Joe Biden 
addressed the wounded soldiers and that was quite moving.

Did anyone see it audio described? I heard one channel did this, but I don't 
know which one and I don't know how to get audio description here.
The neat thing also about inaugurations is the music from the bands 
preceeding the parade.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Laurel And Stockard
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 8:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day

Obama is actually our 44th president, he is not counted 45th because this is 
his second term. The inauguration was good, I really enjoyed the parade part 
:-) While I don't agree with most Of his politics, I pray for him every day 
and I pray that his presidency goes well and that our country does well next 
four years :-)

Laurel and Stockard

On Jan 21, 2013, at 19:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I do not know where many stand; however, my meaning of this message is 
> simple this evening.  Let us learn and be grateful for those who came 
> before us.  DR. King, lead the way towards something special for all of 
> us, including individuals with disabilities, and soon,those who want to 
> conjoin as civil unionized partners.  His legacy leaves us some great 
> quotes for personal and self development.
> http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_
> Have a great evening all.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 1:37 PM, "Humberto Avila" 
> <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I happened to listen to it online. it was wonderful.
>> P.S. Also, happy Martin Luther King Day!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna 
>> Baccchus
>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:26 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
>>
>> Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to
>> watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From daviddod at buffalo.edu  Tue Jan 22 08:30:01 2013
From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 03:30:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Diversity in Disability: Registration 2013 Symposium!
In-Reply-To: <CAGiF6MFQXdzGO7WrtZ4MogBx+BN7OfENL73+5jX9QJpXym0rFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGiF6MFQXdzGO7WrtZ4MogBx+BN7OfENL73+5jX9QJpXym0rFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGiF6MFx6uxJA-kg6eiWnMtfos_M5p_PQnYSi7BuAcDcUnjF3w@mail.gmail.com>

FYI - Diversity in Disability 2013 symposium at University at Buffalo.
Registration information below.

David
----------------------------------
David Dodge
Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson
English Major
University at Buffalo
306 Clemens Hall
Buffalo, NY 14260
daviddod at buffalo.edu


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu>
Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Subject: Diversity in Disability: Registration 2013 Symposium!
To: "coddo at buffalo.edu" <coddo at buffalo.edu>, "ksnaus at buffalo.edu" <
ksnaus at buffalo.edu>, "schweitz at buffalo.edu" <schweitz at buffalo.edu>, "
arielres at buffalo.edu" <arielres at buffalo.edu>, "sandrahu at buffalo.edu" <
sandrahu at buffalo.edu>, "zuletr at gmail.com" <zuletr at gmail.com>, "
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eduquette at opportunitiesunlimited.org" <eduquette at opportunitiesunlimited.org>,
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brownie2 at buffalo.edu>, "ladymorar at roadrunner.com" <ladymorar at roadrunner.com>,
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sharon.budnik at nfmmc.org>, "baburke at buffalo.edu" <baburke at buffalo.edu>, "
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gaclark at buffalo.edu" <gaclark at buffalo.edu>, "kirstiec at buffalo.edu" <
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vrd at rochester.rr.com>, "jdunworth at financialguide.com" <
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mtmortellarodupre at genesee.edu>, "paulerri at buffalo.edu" <paulerri at buffalo.edu>,
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sarah at cdpaanys.org>, "dagerber at buffalo.edu" <dagerber at buffalo.edu>, "
Sagray2 at buffalo.edu" <Sagray2 at buffalo.edu>, "briellesimone at gmail.com" <
briellesimone at gmail.com>, "patiaine.guzinski at erie.gov" <
patiaine.guzinski at erie.gov>, "daha at buffalo.edu" <daha at buffalo.edu>, "
jhanes at buffalo.edu" <jhanes at buffalo.edu>, "jsharvey at genesee.edu" <
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maclean50 at gmail.com>, "smaclean367 at gmail.com" <smaclean367 at gmail.com>, "
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psmithhansen at hotmail.com" <psmithhansen at hotmail.com>, "amsoto at buffalo.edu" <
amsoto at buffalo.edu>, "sperring at buffalo.edu" <sperring at buffalo.edu>, "
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hsubryan at buffalo.edu" <hsubryan at buffalo.edu>, "aliciasu at buffalo.edu" <
aliciasu at buffalo.edu>, "bsupernault at finsvcs.com" <bsupernault at finsvcs.com>,
"mthakali at buffalo.edu" <mthakali at buffalo.edu>, "mtizzard at ilssimcoe.ca" <
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zhuominw at buffalo.edu>, "hswhite at buffalo.edu" <hswhite at buffalo.edu>, "
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kwilson9 at buffalo.edu" <kwilson9 at buffalo.edu>, Alec Frazier <
alecfrazier at comcast.net>, "Mann Dolce, Susan" <samann at buffalo.edu>,
Caroline Skonecki <cbskonec at buffalo.edu>, Hope Supernault <
hksupernault at gmail.com>, "Wlosinski, Amy" <ald5 at buffalo.edu>, Michael
Rembis <mrembis at gmail.com>, Ari Ne'eman <aneeman at autisticadvocacy.org>, Ari
Ne'eman <aneeman at gmail.com>, Tammy Milillo <tammymmil at yahoo.com>, "
stacey at nyln.org" <stacey at nyln.org>, "Floro, Phyllis" <floro at buffalo.edu>,
"Budek, Terri" <tfrysh at buffalo.edu>, Renee Price <rprice at leroycsd.org>,
"Padley, Joanne" <jpadley at buffalo.edu>, "Barefoot, Joanna E." <
jebarefoot at genesee.edu>, "Snider, Elizabeth" <esnider at buffalo.edu>, Kim
Russell <kimrussl at bellsouth.net>, Erik Seeman <seeman at buffalo.edu>,
"Winter, Kari" <kwinter2 at buffalo.edu>, Kristin Skarie <
kskarie at betterteams.com>, "jcborner at utica.edu" <jcborner at utica.edu>, "
altmanp at newpaltz.edu" <altmanp at newpaltz.edu>, "perez at sunydutchess.edu" <
perez at sunydutchess.edu>, "duro4157 at plattsburgh.edu" <
duro4157 at plattsburgh.edu>, "jjs383 at medaille.edu" <jjs383 at medaille.edu>, "
hoffman at ecc.edu" <hoffman at ecc.edu>, "richarwa at cobleskill.edu" <
richarwa at cobleskill.edu>, "rmccarty at paulsmiths.edu" <rmccarty at paulsmiths.edu>,
"azimmer5 at corning-cc.edu" <azimmer5 at corning-cc.edu>, "ch286 at cornell.edu" <
ch286 at cornell.edu>, "mckays at sunyacc.edu" <mckays at sunyacc.edu>, "
jtotino at skidmore.edu" <jtotino at skidmore.edu>, "Meghanmc at buffalo.edu" <
Meghanmc at buffalo.edu>, "allegra.stout at gmail.com" <allegra.stout at gmail.com>,
"nlipsitz at holycross.edu" <nlipsitz at holycross.edu>, "llieberm at brockport.edu"
<llieberm at brockport.edu>, "mdeffe at dcc.edu" <mdeffe at dcc.edu>, "
katherynestaeger-wilson at missouristate.edu" <
katherynestaeger-wilson at missouristate.edu>, "jean at ahead.org" <jean at ahead.org>,
"berberit at morris.umn.edu" <berberit at morris.umn.edu>, "
eileen_berger at gse.harvard.edu" <eileen_berger at gse.harvard.edu>, "
ltaylor at cdrnys.org" <ltaylor at cdrnys.org>, "bdarling at cdrnys.org" <
bdarling at cdrnys.org>, "headway at headwayofwny.org" <headway at headwayofwny.org>,
"cbelongia at genesee.edu" <cbelongia at genesee.edu>, Cariann Quick <
cariannquick at gmail.com>, "Heider, Mary Jane" <mjheider at genesee.edu>, "
dream at listserv.syr.edu" <dream at listserv.syr.edu>, National Association of
Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, Bob Balk <bobbalk at yahoo.com
>


Hello Everyone,
Below Is the registration website for the 2013 Diversity in Disability
symposium. If you have any problems regiistering please let me know.

https://www.ubevents.org/event/symposium2013

David

On Sunday, December 2, 2012, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> On behalf of the Diversity in Disability Planning Committee (DDPC) at the
University at Buffalo (UB) I would like to present to you UB's second
Diversity in Disability symposium: "Advocacy in Our Backyard". Please note
that this event is free, includes lunch, and is open to anyone wishing to
participate!
>
>
> Diversity in Disability Symposium 2013
>
> “Advocacy in Our Backyard”
>
> WHO:
> Bruce Darling
> President/CEO
> Center for Disability Rights, Inc.
> Community Organizer
> ADAPT
> http://cdrnys.org/
>
> Dr. Lauren J. Lieberman, PhD.
> Director
> Camp Abilities
> www.campabilities.org
>
> Diana Landwehr
> Director of Support and Advocacy
> Headway of Western NY Inc.
> http://www.headwayofwny.org/
>
>

-- 
----------------------------------
David Dodge
Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson
English Major
University at Buffalo
306 Clemens Hall
Buffalo, NY 14260
daviddod at buffalo.edu

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan 22 10:59:33 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 04:59:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Survey for Blind Therapists
Message-ID: <auto-000094023088@mailfront4.g2host.com>

We have been contacted to circulate the following:




1/17/2013




Recruitment notice for listserve:


Hello this is Maxine Brown a doctoral student in Counseling 
Psychology at Argosy University onLine.



I am seeking participants for a research study on blind therapists. 
If you work as a blind therapist you can contact me Maxine Brown to 
participate.
Telephone number: 253 531-3434 E-mail: 
<mailto:Brown11206 at comcast.net>Brown11206 at comcast.net





From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 11:55:54 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:55:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
In-Reply-To: <062DF5E2E6D147A3B75FB7550AABA903@OwnerPC>
References: <50fd885d.2702650a.449a.ffff9ff4@mx.google.com>
	<003101cdf806$38aa27a0$a9fe76e0$@gmail.com>
	<BLU405-EAS8617D7ADFAC06A508D6F55DC160@phx.gbl>
	<E5F3F1DE-6700-4FF7-B643-40257B09257B@gmail.com>
	<062DF5E2E6D147A3B75FB7550AABA903@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <-5746453589161968918@unknownmsgid>

Ashley,

I didn't get to hear VP Biden's speech to the wounded soldiers, but I
have no doubt that it was very moving as you said. If you are talking
about the TV channel that did the audio description, it was probably
PBS. They do their audio description on the SAP (second audio program)
channel. Do you know how to turn that on?

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 12:30 AM, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Laurel,
> Same here; while I don't always agree with his political stances, I do hope he leads the country well and I also pray for him and the direction of the country. I saw exerpts of the inaugural balls too tonight. Joe Biden addressed the wounded soldiers and that was quite moving.
>
> Did anyone see it audio described? I heard one channel did this, but I don't know which one and I don't know how to get audio description here.
> The neat thing also about inaugurations is the music from the bands preceeding the parade.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Laurel And Stockard
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 8:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
>
> Obama is actually our 44th president, he is not counted 45th because this is his second term. The inauguration was good, I really enjoyed the parade part :-) While I don't agree with most Of his politics, I pray for him every day and I pray that his presidency goes well and that our country does well next four years :-)
>
> Laurel and Stockard
>
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 19:06, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not know where many stand; however, my meaning of this message is simple this evening.  Let us learn and be grateful for those who came before us.  DR. King, lead the way towards something special for all of us, including individuals with disabilities, and soon,those who want to conjoin as civil unionized partners.  His legacy leaves us some great quotes for personal and self development.
>> http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_
>> Have a great evening all.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2013, at 1:37 PM, "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I happened to listen to it online. it was wonderful.
>>> P.S. Also, happy Martin Luther King Day!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Baccchus
>>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:26 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Inauguration Day
>>>
>>> Happy Inauguration Day everyone.  I hope you all had a chance to
>>> watch the inauguration of our forty-fifth President.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 19:12:23 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:12:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
Message-ID: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>

Dear Nabs Members,

I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines 
that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, 
Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of 
the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond 
as soon as possible.


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 19:15:41 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:15:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>

is access world on news line

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nabs Members,
> 
> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From brownbears at mchsi.com  Tue Jan 22 19:23:20 2013
From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:23:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
Message-ID: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>

Hello:

I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
accessible. In my current online class my group project is being completed
in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I would
really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com


Miranda 


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 19:32:20 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:32:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>

No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
online and via the access world app for iOS.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> is access world on news line
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>
>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 19:39:16 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:39:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <B9CFAF4D-4F7D-4987-BA7D-583DC5C6960C@gmail.com>

will u send me the link please. or my brother, Ty

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:32, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
> online and via the access world app for iOS.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> is access world on news line
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 19:40:19 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:40:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <43B8E500-E1E9-440A-AC6B-1DFE7AC22AD4@gmail.com>

Anyone know if people or Oprah are available by email or in etext?
Amanda

On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:32 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
> online and via the access world app for iOS.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> is access world on news line
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Jan 22 19:47:12 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:47:12 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <43B8E500-E1E9-440A-AC6B-1DFE7AC22AD4@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>,
	<43B8E500-E1E9-440A-AC6B-1DFE7AC22AD4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64FFFF@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Amanda.
I don't think so, and they aren't blindness magazines, so if you'd like to know about that, please start another thread.
I'm not trying to fill the moderator's position, but I strongly dislike thread highjacking!
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Amanda [cape.amanda at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:40 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email

Anyone know if people or Oprah are available by email or in etext?
Amanda

On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:32 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
> online and via the access world app for iOS.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> is access world on news line
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com




From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 20:12:05 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:12:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <B9CFAF4D-4F7D-4987-BA7D-583DC5C6960C@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
	<B9CFAF4D-4F7D-4987-BA7D-583DC5C6960C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8994018047296347031@unknownmsgid>

Www.accessworld.org.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> will u send me the link please. or my brother, Ty
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:32, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
>> online and via the access world app for iOS.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> is access world on news line
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 20:20:50 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:20:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <8994018047296347031@unknownmsgid>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
	<B9CFAF4D-4F7D-4987-BA7D-583DC5C6960C@gmail.com>
	<8994018047296347031@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <27C3B517-52DA-4149-B241-CFE9B816E253@gmail.com>

thanks

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 22, 2013, at 15:12, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Www.accessworld.org.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> will u send me the link please. or my brother, Ty
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:32, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
>>> online and via the access world app for iOS.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> is access world on news line
>>>> 
>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From adrimpc80 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 22:17:05 2013
From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:17:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
In-Reply-To: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <CAFV4M-2_5HKoxSd8CeGniqgSsKPjZmTLMMVTuu0LygNbrMJ38w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Miranda,
I had to use Google Docs last semester. I was not able to read the
documents directly on the Web. So what I did was to look for the menu
options with the arrows. One of these options lets you download the
document, so that you can read it in its original format.

If you have more questions, feel free to email me off list at
adrimpc80 at gmail.com

Hope this helps!

Adriana P.

2013/1/22, Miranda Morse <brownbears at mchsi.com>:
> Hello:
>
> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being completed
> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I would
> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at
> brownbears at mchsi.com
>
>
> Miranda
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Adriana Pulido
Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad
Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida.


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 22:44:27 2013
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:44:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>

Hi there,
I am also wondering how to use google docs with JAWs and any help will be 
great. Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Miranda Morse" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs


> Hello:
>
> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being completed
> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I 
> would
> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at 
> brownbears at mchsi.com
>
>
> Miranda
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 22 23:09:08 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:09:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>

I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email

is access world on news line

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE

On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nabs Members,
>
> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I 
> can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, 
> Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler 
> Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 00:38:46 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:38:46 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
In-Reply-To: <43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
	<43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdw5yPYEdtk8pOnOdzYyu3YSdKgUMtORs=ZsSRX-5_+4pw@mail.gmail.com>

So, does anyone know if you have Google Drive installed if the
documents there are readable like downloaded documents or if they have
to be converted as well? I have heard that they are manageable as long
as people are not editing them while you are trying to read them, but
I haven't experimented as much as I should. A lot of my coleagues use
them because they are easy to share although I use Dropbox and like it
just fine. Thoughts?

Cindy

On 1/22/13, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
> I am also wondering how to use google docs with JAWs and any help will be
> great. Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Miranda Morse" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:23 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
>
>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
>> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being
>> completed
>> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I
>> would
>> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at
>> brownbears at mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> Miranda
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 00:59:36 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:59:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdw5yPYEdtk8pOnOdzYyu3YSdKgUMtORs=ZsSRX-5_+4pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
	<43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>
	<CACUFQdw5yPYEdtk8pOnOdzYyu3YSdKgUMtORs=ZsSRX-5_+4pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB587L8j7T3NYUc=Znx_X09FSKgyEK6Rpbzz8esuT=sAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I heard on another list that if you download Google Chrome and then
download a free add-on called Chromevox, Google Docs becomes
accessible with JAWS. Has anyone tried this and how well does it work?
Arielle

On 1/22/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, does anyone know if you have Google Drive installed if the
> documents there are readable like downloaded documents or if they have
> to be converted as well? I have heard that they are manageable as long
> as people are not editing them while you are trying to read them, but
> I haven't experimented as much as I should. A lot of my coleagues use
> them because they are easy to share although I use Dropbox and like it
> just fine. Thoughts?
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/22/13, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> I am also wondering how to use google docs with JAWs and any help will be
>> great. Thanks
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Miranda Morse" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:23 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
>>
>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
>>> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being
>>> completed
>>> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I
>>> would
>>> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at
>>> brownbears at mchsi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Miranda
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From opensesame at me.com  Wed Jan 23 02:07:24 2013
From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:07:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJB587L8j7T3NYUc=Znx_X09FSKgyEK6Rpbzz8esuT=sAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
	<43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>
	<CACUFQdw5yPYEdtk8pOnOdzYyu3YSdKgUMtORs=ZsSRX-5_+4pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB587L8j7T3NYUc=Znx_X09FSKgyEK6Rpbzz8esuT=sAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E20C7F67-0359-4132-82D6-F5913401B58D@me.com>

Last semester I worked on a team of 6 students who collaborated to create a dozen documents using Docs, and two presentations using Slides. My fellow teammates were sighted and did their work on Windows computers through the google docs web interface. I did my work on a Macbook Air and an iPhone 4S.

The first thing I did was install the Google Drive App on my devices. This allows for simple file management. I then installed the latest version of Chrome and the Chromevox plugin on the Mac. In my testing, Docs was significantly more accessible via Chromevox as opposed to Mac VoiceOver. This might be different under Windows. Google's accessibility documentation for Docs is largely geared toward JAWS. http://www.google.com/accessibility/products/

It took some time to learn, but I was eventually able to create and edit docs on the Mac using ChromeVox. I was also able to do a bit of editing on the iPhone, but mostly I just read the docs on the iPhone using the Google Drive App, which worked quite well for reading and reviewing.

HTH,
Bryan

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Miranda Morse" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:23 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
>>>> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
>>>> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being
>>>> completed
>>>> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I
>>>> would
>>>> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 02:34:03 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:34:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
In-Reply-To: <E20C7F67-0359-4132-82D6-F5913401B58D@me.com>
References: <000901cdf8d5$f07a93e0$d16fbba0$@mchsi.com>
	<43B4FCDEDF1C43FCBA46E079053E4913@Gloria>
	<CACUFQdw5yPYEdtk8pOnOdzYyu3YSdKgUMtORs=ZsSRX-5_+4pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB587L8j7T3NYUc=Znx_X09FSKgyEK6Rpbzz8esuT=sAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E20C7F67-0359-4132-82D6-F5913401B58D@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZyJ=Zm_FOq7s4Av5C8nbE6aoEfu9myjTtC15sK7xzojQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

As was said the IPhone or other I-devices are great for reading google
docs.  My fraternity likes to send out google doc surveys out and I
always use my IPhone for those.
I'd talk to your teammates and see if something could be worked out.
If one of the requirements is that the project be completed as a
google doc, at the least you could use your IPad or IPhone to read it
and email your responses in plain text to someone.  If you edit it so
that all they'd have to do is copy and paste it shouldn't be a big
deal.  If you don't have an IPad or something then perhaps sharing a
different file format through dropbox or email would be a better
option.

On 1/22/13, Bryan Jones <opensesame at me.com> wrote:
> Last semester I worked on a team of 6 students who collaborated to create a
> dozen documents using Docs, and two presentations using Slides. My fellow
> teammates were sighted and did their work on Windows computers through the
> google docs web interface. I did my work on a Macbook Air and an iPhone 4S.
>
> The first thing I did was install the Google Drive App on my devices. This
> allows for simple file management. I then installed the latest version of
> Chrome and the Chromevox plugin on the Mac. In my testing, Docs was
> significantly more accessible via Chromevox as opposed to Mac VoiceOver.
> This might be different under Windows. Google's accessibility documentation
> for Docs is largely geared toward JAWS.
> http://www.google.com/accessibility/products/
>
> It took some time to learn, but I was eventually able to create and edit
> docs on the Mac using ChromeVox. I was also able to do a bit of editing on
> the iPhone, but mostly I just read the docs on the iPhone using the Google
> Drive App, which worked quite well for reading and reviewing.
>
> HTH,
> Bryan
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Miranda Morse" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Google Docs
>>>>> I am sure this has been covered but I need to know if google docs is
>>>>> accessible. In my current online class my group project is being
>>>>> completed
>>>>> in google docs. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate it I
>>>>> would
>>>>> really appreciate it. You can also email me off list at
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 03:14:26 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 20:14:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>

Please don't bite my head off, people, but there is also the braille forum. I'm not sure you can get that one via email, but it is on newsline.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
> 
> is access world on news line
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Nabs Members,
>> 
>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 05:39:23 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:39:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
	<F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaryanavWp0dNzXYtmVo90=Z1yPvOZstE9H-F=Z6DXVGw@mail.gmail.com>

Your state N
FB might have something not quite like a magazine, but sort of like a
newsletter.  In Ohio it's called the Buckeye Bulletin.  I'm sure any
local officer or chapter representative would be able to steer you to
it if your state has one.

On 1/22/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Please don't bite my head off, people, but there is also the braille forum.
> I'm not sure you can get that one via email, but it is on newsline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
>>
>> is access world on news line
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I
>>> can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future
>>> Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda
>>> Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From carlymih at comcast.net  Wed Jan 23 08:09:33 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:09:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64FFFF@CH1PRD0710MB393.n
	amprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<5694214624936687122@unknownmsgid>
	<43B8E500-E1E9-440A-AC6B-1DFE7AC22AD4@gmail.com>
	<C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C64FFFF@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130123000647.01d64228@comcast.net>

Joshua, you know what she means, the "Braille Monotone, the Matilda 
Ziegler and other such blind special interest rags. /22/2013, Joshua 
Lester wrote:
>Amanda.
>I don't think so, and they aren't blindness magazines, so if you'd 
>like to know about that, please start another thread.
>I'm not trying to fill the moderator's position, but I strongly 
>dislike thread highjacking!
>Thanks, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Amanda 
>[cape.amanda at gmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:40 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
>
>Anyone know if people or Oprah are available by email or in etext?
>Amanda
>
>On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:32 PM, christopher nusbaum 
><dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, unfortunately that magazine is not on Newsline. You can get it
> > online and via the access world app for iOS.
> >
> > Chris Nusbaum
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Lavonya Gardner 
> <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> is access world on news line
> >>
> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> >>
> >> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Nabs Members,
> >>>
> >>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related 
> magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille 
> Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email 
> edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please 
> reipond as soon as possible.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 12:00:57 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 07:00:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
	<F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2179179018454739179@unknownmsgid>

Kirt,

We don't bite, or at least I don't. :-) About the braille forum (now
the ACB braille forum,) it is both available on Newsline and via
email. You can find it on Newsline in the blindness specific category
under magazines. To subscribe to it via email visit www.ACB.org and
click on the braille forum link.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Please don't bite my head off, people, but there is also the braille forum. I'm not sure you can get that one via email, but it is on newsline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
>>
>> is access world on news line
>>
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 12:59:48 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 07:59:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaryanavWp0dNzXYtmVo90=Z1yPvOZstE9H-F=Z6DXVGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com>
	<8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com>
	<4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
	<F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaryanavWp0dNzXYtmVo90=Z1yPvOZstE9H-F=Z6DXVGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1588127460766741272@unknownmsgid>

I believe all state affiliates have a newsletter. Check your state
affiliate's Web site for more information.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Your state N
> FB might have something not quite like a magazine, but sort of like a
> newsletter.  In Ohio it's called the Buckeye Bulletin.  I'm sure any
> local officer or chapter representative would be able to steer you to
> it if your state has one.
>
> On 1/22/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Please don't bite my head off, people, but there is also the braille forum.
>> I'm not sure you can get that one via email, but it is on newsline.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
>>>
>>> is access world on news line
>>>
>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I
>>>> can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future
>>>> Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda
>>>> Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 16:28:02 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 08:28:02 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Membership Call: Using the National Association of
 Blind Students as a Resource for Scholastic Success.
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjO44DdfZGg65mR-pYFU_m+-kprUrDJZv6XatEbqJ5HY9g@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings fellow Blind students,

Do you want to learn about all of the resources that NABS has to offer
you? If so, please join us on January 27, for a membership call which
will cover
extensively all of the ways in which students can benefit from being
involved in NABS

We will have guest speaker Mary Fernandez present on the benefits of
the NABS list serve, as well as tips on list serve etiquette and how
to properly use
the list serve. In addition we will have NABS President, Sean Whalen,
discuss what the Student Slate and NABS Resource Page have to offer to
students.

What: The Benefits of NABS Membership Conference Call

When: Sunday, January 27, 5:00 P.M. ET.

Where?: NABS Conference Call Line: (605) 475-6700. Code 7869673


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Jan 23 17:39:24 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:39:24 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally problem!
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65029D@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Good grief!
I don't know what to do, after I log in, and go to my bookshelf!
I went into it, and selected my book, but I don't know where to go, in order to get the book to play!
Please help!
Thanks, Joshua


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 20:04:43 2013
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:04:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally problem!
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65029D@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65029D@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_A4R3d45iqNfrNedzKzroPMVeXEi+dJWF8b6A0keKzhYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua,
You play the book from your desktop, using a Learning Ally download.
Either that, or you download the book using the Learning Ally Download
Manager and play it on a Victor Reader or something like that. Hope
this helps,
Patrick

On 1/23/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> Good grief!
> I don't know what to do, after I log in, and go to my bookshelf!
> I went into it, and selected my book, but I don't know where to go, in order
> to get the book to play!
> Please help!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Jan 23 20:27:30 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:27:30 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally problem!
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_A4R3d45iqNfrNedzKzroPMVeXEi+dJWF8b6A0keKzhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65029D@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CAN+-G_A4R3d45iqNfrNedzKzroPMVeXEi+dJWF8b6A0keKzhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C650354@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Well, I couldn't get anything to work from my desktop, but I got some good news!
I called Learning Ally myself, and the books I needed were available on CD, and they're even sending me a new Daizy Player, since my old one quit on me!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Patrick Molloy [ptrck.molloy at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Learning Ally problem!

Joshua,
You play the book from your desktop, using a Learning Ally download.
Either that, or you download the book using the Learning Ally Download
Manager and play it on a Victor Reader or something like that. Hope
this helps,
Patrick

On 1/23/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> Good grief!
> I don't know what to do, after I log in, and go to my bookshelf!
> I went into it, and selected my book, but I don't know where to go, in order
> to get the book to play!
> Please help!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 23 20:41:33 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:41:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
In-Reply-To: <F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
References: <50fee4c6.8481ec0a.1edd.ffffc9ec@mx.google.com><8E0F91A6-334B-47F8-93EE-239264756DD5@gmail.com><4E1AF7D2401B43858BBB6140B4717C2B@OwnerPC>
	<F168E609-F56B-4701-8437-85E101332881@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAC666F9C84F4C948D8C5CA4E9894540@OwnerPC>


Kirt,
Glad you mentioned that. Sometimes that magazine has good technology reviews 
or sales.
Last I checked, it was in email format.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email

Please don't bite my head off, people, but there is also the braille forum. 
I'm not sure you can get that one via email, but it is on newsline.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> I think Access World is only on the website www.afb.org.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:15 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness Magazines Via Email
>
> is access world on news line
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 14:12, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nabs Members,
>>
>> I was wondering if there are any more blindness related magazines that I 
>> can receive via email.  I receive the Braille Monitor, Future 
>> Reflections, Access World, and the weekly email edition of the Matilda 
>> Zeigler Magazine.  If you know of any please reipond as soon as possible.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 


From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 22:12:05 2013
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:12:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] teaching myself german
Message-ID: <5100603e.c474310a.4eb1.29d1@mx.google.com>

Hi all,
I am a fluent English speaker, and I know Lithuanian (because my 
family is) and I take Spanish in school.  I'd like to learn some 
other languages, though.  I am thinking that I want to first 
learn German.  So I have a couple of questions:
1.  Have any of you taught yourself languages online using an 
accessible site? Was it easy?
2.  What is German Braille like? Are there any other symbols I 
need to know besides the alphabet?
I already understand that it's going to take longer to learn 
German because I won't have the opportunity to be with 
German-speakers every day, so geting the accent will be tough.  
Amazingly, it's not taught at our school, but I'd still really 
like to know it.
I appreciate any comments.  By the way, I'm 16 if that helps at 
all.
Sincerely,
Vejas


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 04:05:22 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:05:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] teaching myself german
In-Reply-To: <5100603e.c474310a.4eb1.29d1@mx.google.com>
References: <5100603e.c474310a.4eb1.29d1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJ6eHG2R81os4VZCbpjK4ri6LyTgMDdHhvf+fyZ5AgWSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am a German major and have been taking German for 10 years.  I did
not teach it to myself, so I cannot help you with that aspect of
learning the language, but I can give you some things to help.  I use
grade one braille for German Braille.  The only signs you have to
worry about other than the alphabet are the umlauts(A, O, and U).
There are braille signs for those; however, when I write papers in
German, I usually use the E after the letter that has the umlaut,
which is acceptable as well.  There is also the Szet, which is the
double S in German.  There is a braille sign for that, but it was kind
of rare that I got to see it used.  I didn't use it myself and can't
even tell you when it's used and not at this point.  :)

I would recommend using Braille to learn.  Perhaps the library of
Congress has some options for learning German.  I don't know if I
would try to use a website because depending on how it works with
jaws, the German will either be pronounced incorrectly or will be way
too fast for a beginner.  When I find websites that jaws reads
correctly in German, I still have to slow it down a lot to read.  So I
would recommend using a textbook or something else from NLS.  I can
also give you some links to German dictionaries that I find
accessible, but a dictionary won't help you unless you understand the
language a little bit.

Sorry for the long message, and let me know if I can help any further.

On 1/23/13, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am a fluent English speaker, and I know Lithuanian (because my
> family is) and I take Spanish in school.  I'd like to learn some
> other languages, though.  I am thinking that I want to first
> learn German.  So I have a couple of questions:
> 1.  Have any of you taught yourself languages online using an
> accessible site? Was it easy?
> 2.  What is German Braille like? Are there any other symbols I
> need to know besides the alphabet?
> I already understand that it's going to take longer to learn
> German because I won't have the opportunity to be with
> German-speakers every day, so geting the accent will be tough.
> Amazingly, it's not taught at our school, but I'd still really
> like to know it.
> I appreciate any comments.  By the way, I'm 16 if that helps at
> all.
> Sincerely,
> Vejas
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From leyeshprintse at ymail.com  Thu Jan 24 16:17:07 2013
From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:17:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] teaching myself german
Message-ID: <1359044227.71199.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


BS"D

Vejas,

I can't help you with German Braille. I've studied French online and it went well for me. I received good grades but some aspects of the studies was more difficult then others. It's easy to learn writing, reading and listening. The hardest thing is the speaking part. I would recommend you to find some other German students who want to practise with you. The best thing is of course to build friendships with people who speak the language as their mother tongue. It's more difficult to teach yourself a language by yourself but you can do it if you're devoted to the task.

Good luck!

Leye-Shprintse


From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 18:03:02 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:03:02 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro and questions
Message-ID: <CAOo351TNACRcPq5EfNEyT731MBS2c+OxfSnekH7S_DqzLzfCLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone
My name is Ari. I'm a totally blind student from South Africa. At the
moment I'm studying law. I found this list on google when I was
searching for how to learn Japanese if one is blind.
My questions are these:
1. I would like to study some courses corespondence, possibly online
from either America or Canada. What American or Canadian colleges or
institutions are good at helping disabled people do courses through
corespondence? One important problem or aspect that does bother me is
if I want to study something they'd have to also somehow be able to
provide me with the prescribed textbooks and help to do research as I
know if you guys do research you often use services such as BARD,
Learning Ally etc, which are not available to me, so somehow they'd
have to accommodate me being able to research in some other way.
2. I know this is an American list, but I'm asking in case someone
knows. When I finish my degree I'm thinking of doing a conversion
course and emmigrating to Canada. Does anyone please know of a list or
chat room where I can chat to blind people or students from Canada
just to understand what it is like to live and study there, basically
to learn more about Canadian culture and their way of life, especially
what it is like to be blind there?
   Thanks very much
Ari


From zdreicer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 18:16:37 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:16:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro and questions
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351TNACRcPq5EfNEyT731MBS2c+OxfSnekH7S_DqzLzfCLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOo351TNACRcPq5EfNEyT731MBS2c+OxfSnekH7S_DqzLzfCLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F9B8953-D263-4596-A545-DDEFE022F91B@gmail.com>

Welcome to the list! I have a few Canadian friends who might be able to help. I will forward them your message.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone
> My name is Ari. I'm a totally blind student from South Africa. At the
> moment I'm studying law. I found this list on google when I was
> searching for how to learn Japanese if one is blind.
> My questions are these:
> 1. I would like to study some courses corespondence, possibly online
> from either America or Canada. What American or Canadian colleges or
> institutions are good at helping disabled people do courses through
> corespondence? One important problem or aspect that does bother me is
> if I want to study something they'd have to also somehow be able to
> provide me with the prescribed textbooks and help to do research as I
> know if you guys do research you often use services such as BARD,
> Learning Ally etc, which are not available to me, so somehow they'd
> have to accommodate me being able to research in some other way.
> 2. I know this is an American list, but I'm asking in case someone
> knows. When I finish my degree I'm thinking of doing a conversion
> course and emmigrating to Canada. Does anyone please know of a list or
> chat room where I can chat to blind people or students from Canada
> just to understand what it is like to live and study there, basically
> to learn more about Canadian culture and their way of life, especially
> what it is like to be blind there?
>   Thanks very much
> Ari
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From carlymih at comcast.net  Thu Jan 24 18:27:50 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:27:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro and questions
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351TNACRcPq5EfNEyT731MBS2c+OxfSnekH7S_DqzLzfCLg@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAOo351TNACRcPq5EfNEyT731MBS2c+OxfSnekH7S_DqzLzfCLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130124102002.01c428c8@comcast.net>

Good morning, Ari,

         I am not any kind of authority on the subject of nihongo 
tenji (Japanese braille) but, after studying for 3 years in high 
school, and visiting Kukizaki, Japan in '97 with my hometown's sister 
city, I happened upon some basic tenji. . Have you any familiarity 
with how nihongo (spoken Japanese) is organized? If so, I can 
describe how the syllable chart is arranged in bbraille, if you want?
As for a curiossity about Canada, and blindness, I had a blind 
friend, Lynnn King who lived here in berkeley who was from Canada, 
and she could have probably answered your questions but she died last 
year of cancer. I hope you find some answers. Try other blindness 
magazines and newsletters?
>My name is Ari. I'm a totally blind student from South Africa. At the
>moment I'm studying law. I found this list on google when I was
>searching for how to learn Japanese if one is blind.
>My questions are these:
>1. I would like to study some courses corespondence, possibly online
>from either America or Canada. What American or Canadian colleges or
>institutions are good at helping disabled people do courses through
>corespondence? One important problem or aspect that does bother me is
>if I want to study something they'd have to also somehow be able to
>provide me with the prescribed textbooks and help to do research as I
>know if you guys do research you often use services such as BARD,
>Learning Ally etc, which are not available to me, so somehow they'd
>have to accommodate me being able to research in some other way.
>2. I know this is an American list, but I'm asking in case someone
>knows. When I finish my degree I'm thinking of doing a conversion
>course and emmigrating to Canada. Does anyone please know of a list or
>chat room where I can chat to blind people or students from Canada
>just to understand what it is like to live and study there, basically
>to learn more about Canadian culture and their way of life, especially
>what it is like to be blind there?
>    Thanks very much
>Ari
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From jty727 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 22:46:30 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:46:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
I'd reach out to you all.

Thanks so much!

Justin


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 22:51:29 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:51:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>

hi justin,

if you are eligible for an upgrade, go ahead and grab the 5 as it is the  latest.
also, the "memory"you refer to should be referred as capacity, and no, it does not interfere in terms of accessibility at all.

sincerely

mauricio
On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All!
> 
> Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
> questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
> friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
> that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
> accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
> I'd reach out to you all.
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> Justin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From jty727 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 23:03:45 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:03:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
In-Reply-To: <34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is the 4 accessible just as the 5?

Justin

On 1/24/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi justin,
>
> if you are eligible for an upgrade, go ahead and grab the 5 as it is the
> latest.
> also, the "memory"you refer to should be referred as capacity, and no, it
> does not interfere in terms of accessibility at all.
>
> sincerely
>
> mauricio
> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
>> questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
>> friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
>> that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
>> accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
>> I'd reach out to you all.
>>
>> Thanks so much!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 23:36:48 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:36:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa5jV3RxKkGNzzBB=fXnHMxm9RRZ_fqSZQiDzpk_zwJNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin,

I have an IPhone 4 and it works great.  I've also seen the 4S and 5
and as far as accessibility is concerned they're all exactly the same.
 If you're looking for a slightly smaller phone go with the 5, but if
money and a deal is what you want I'd definitely go with the 4 because
it does the same tasks but is a reduced price at most phone stores.  I
cheaped out and got the 4 right when the 4S came out and don't regret
it at all.  If you get the 4 just make sure your IOS is up to date, it
should be version 6.  It should do it itself, but if the 4 has been
sitting there a while or if they sell you one of their demo phones you
might have to go into settings and update it, but that's no big deal.

HTH,


On 1/24/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the 4 accessible just as the 5?
>
> Justin
>
> On 1/24/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi justin,
>>
>> if you are eligible for an upgrade, go ahead and grab the 5 as it is the
>> latest.
>> also, the "memory"you refer to should be referred as capacity, and no, it
>> does not interfere in terms of accessibility at all.
>>
>> sincerely
>>
>> mauricio
>> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
>>> questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
>>> friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
>>> that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
>>> accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
>>> I'd reach out to you all.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 23:37:19 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:37:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdxqK6KGAnS5Z1SRW37mUZoui=5G3nj9btG4ESz-VGL_SQ@mail.gmail.com>

There are no differences in accessibility between the 4 and the 5. I
know that you don't have Siri until the iPhone 4s, therefore I don't
think you can dictate anything unless you have the iPhone 4s. Other
than that, you will be able to access all of the features of the
iPhone with a 4. You will be able to download the latest version of
iOS, which is version 6. I do agree that having the latest iPhone is
pretty cool, but there is nothing wrong with getting a 4. I know that
you are promised 2 software upgrades. So since the iPhone 4 came out
with iOS 4, iOS 5 was the first update and iOS 6 the second. However,
people with iPhone 3gs phones were able to update their phones to iOS
6 which for them was the third update. So, Apple may allow 4's to
update to 7, but they may not. Who knows? In that case, being behind
on the software may put you at a disadvantage for apps and such, but
if you really want an iPhone and a 4 is the best option for you
personally, then you won't be making any huge accessibility sacrifices
by buying an older iPhone.

As far as capacity is concerned, again, you won't be making
accessibility sacrifices by buying a phone with a lesser capacity. To
determine the capacity that is right for you, I think you need to
evaluate yourself and how much you plan to keep on your phone. I have
a 16 gig iPhone and am satisfied with it. I use my phone all the time
and I have several apps however I have an iPod for my music, so I do
not need to dedicate a lot of space for that nor am I especially tech
savvy, so I am a pretty typical user. I think that an 8 gig is on the
small side but that a 16 gig satisfies most typical users. But if you
have tons of music or if you are pretty sure that you are going to
download a ton of apps and videos and such, then you may want to think
about a larger capacity.

Cindy

On 1/24/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the 4 accessible just as the 5?
>
> Justin
>
> On 1/24/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi justin,
>>
>> if you are eligible for an upgrade, go ahead and grab the 5 as it is the
>> latest.
>> also, the "memory"you refer to should be referred as capacity, and no, it
>> does not interfere in terms of accessibility at all.
>>
>> sincerely
>>
>> mauricio
>> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
>>> questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
>>> friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
>>> that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
>>> accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
>>> I'd reach out to you all.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much!
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From jty727 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 02:08:57 2013
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:08:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone question
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdxqK6KGAnS5Z1SRW37mUZoui=5G3nj9btG4ESz-VGL_SQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s6L1FTRMCh2u9aoMB_ESweQ5Wi7LKd_eiE8-j9=NN8Qyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34C4F217-13A4-4522-B297-7E70D1E144FD@gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s7YAiWCeHAis8tXGNgUgsvSu8GwdCLpZg3=Azn4Ne_gKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdxqK6KGAnS5Z1SRW37mUZoui=5G3nj9btG4ESz-VGL_SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6aKRiJquorbf_3RtAcZieU2x3zfwJEBx0EH2GN2_WeNQ@mail.gmail.com>

I really appreciate your comments/suggestions/thoughts.  I'll take it
all into consideration.

Justin

On 1/24/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> There are no differences in accessibility between the 4 and the 5. I
> know that you don't have Siri until the iPhone 4s, therefore I don't
> think you can dictate anything unless you have the iPhone 4s. Other
> than that, you will be able to access all of the features of the
> iPhone with a 4. You will be able to download the latest version of
> iOS, which is version 6. I do agree that having the latest iPhone is
> pretty cool, but there is nothing wrong with getting a 4. I know that
> you are promised 2 software upgrades. So since the iPhone 4 came out
> with iOS 4, iOS 5 was the first update and iOS 6 the second. However,
> people with iPhone 3gs phones were able to update their phones to iOS
> 6 which for them was the third update. So, Apple may allow 4's to
> update to 7, but they may not. Who knows? In that case, being behind
> on the software may put you at a disadvantage for apps and such, but
> if you really want an iPhone and a 4 is the best option for you
> personally, then you won't be making any huge accessibility sacrifices
> by buying an older iPhone.
>
> As far as capacity is concerned, again, you won't be making
> accessibility sacrifices by buying a phone with a lesser capacity. To
> determine the capacity that is right for you, I think you need to
> evaluate yourself and how much you plan to keep on your phone. I have
> a 16 gig iPhone and am satisfied with it. I use my phone all the time
> and I have several apps however I have an iPod for my music, so I do
> not need to dedicate a lot of space for that nor am I especially tech
> savvy, so I am a pretty typical user. I think that an 8 gig is on the
> small side but that a 16 gig satisfies most typical users. But if you
> have tons of music or if you are pretty sure that you are going to
> download a ton of apps and videos and such, then you may want to think
> about a larger capacity.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/24/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is the 4 accessible just as the 5?
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On 1/24/13, Mauricio Almeida <mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hi justin,
>>>
>>> if you are eligible for an upgrade, go ahead and grab the 5 as it is the
>>> latest.
>>> also, the "memory"you refer to should be referred as capacity, and no,
>>> it
>>> does not interfere in terms of accessibility at all.
>>>
>>> sincerely
>>>
>>> mauricio
>>> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope your semesters are off to a wonderful beginning!  I have a few
>>>> questions.  I'm eligible for a phone upgrade and have questions for my
>>>> friends.  Is there a difference in accessibility of the IPhone 4 to
>>>> that of the 4S or 5?  Does the memory make a difference in terms of
>>>> accessibility (e.g. 8, 16, 32, 64)?  I don't know much so I thought
>>>> I'd reach out to you all.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much!
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 17:26:12 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:26:12 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Membership Call: Using the National Association
 of Blind Students as a Resource for Scholastic Success.
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjO44DdfZGg65mR-pYFU_m+-kprUrDJZv6XatEbqJ5HY9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjO44DdfZGg65mR-pYFU_m+-kprUrDJZv6XatEbqJ5HY9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOkKu08e=vEhVZDwkM6cxpJessfNgXOjSYVAC3u4qSzuA@mail.gmail.com>

 Greetings fellow Blind students,

 Do you want to learn about all of the resources that NABS has to offer
 you? If so, please join us on January 27, for a membership call which
 will cover
 extensively all of the ways in which students can benefit from being
 involved in NABS

 We will have guest speaker Mary Fernandez present on the benefits of
 the NABS list serve, as well as tips on list serve etiquette and how
 to properly use
 the list serve. In addition we will have NABS President, Sean Whalen,
 discuss what the Student Slate and NABS Resource Page have to offer to
 students.

 What: The Benefits of NABS Membership Conference Call

 When: Sunday, January 27, 5:00 P.M. ET.

 Where?: NABS Conference Call Line: (605) 475-6700. Code 7869673
 * if you can't call in, you may listen by going to the following
website: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/livecall
** Note this call will be recorded and streamed, so pleasemake sure to
 conduct yourself accordingly.

The Nabs Membership Committee




-- 
Darian Smith
2nd Vice-President, National Association of  Blind Students
website: www.nabslink.org
twitter: @nabslink
facebook: www.facebook.com/nabs.link




Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 17:37:05 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:37:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] #nabsback2school
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjPzUk6KTvRQNaKVSTQqEw2iPr9mAAKTDWAJEDkj-2sEVA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
  Some of us are  already deep in the throws of school, others are
just starting to ramp up. we here in nabs want to hear all about the
interesting classes you are taking, your thoughts about them, the ways
you  plan on tackling  accessibility challanges and how they  may or
may not be working for you.
 tweet us   @nabslink  and tell us about  that exciting class you are
taking and use the hashtag #nabsback2school.
 You never  know... we might rt (re-tweet)your  response and give you
mad twitter love! (#MTL?...I have no freakin' clue! *smile*)
 happy  Tweeting!

-- 
Darian Smith
2nd Vice President, National Association of Blind Students
 follw us on twitter @nabslink


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 18:19:15 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:19:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
In-Reply-To: <51B5B48471C34499A9BC8FB51A14879C@HP30910210001>
References: <3C3B443D-4A63-42F0-A932-F3F190B9B7B2@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FY7BuzPMnPCMbVN01GooOmzCg9JcwZhQE2HBtx_bmTn9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<216176F4-6648-4666-909A-FD1CC33C8422@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDqzrRu_=_y0haiCQXvcUyZC3Y9gf=dkOQPew8wS4C=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51B5B48471C34499A9BC8FB51A14879C@HP30910210001>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjPF9ng8u4+R_LFiuZEVFGC_gPsUsgJsX7Y6BKMSKdds=A@mail.gmail.com>

Arielle and all,
 I have been in  similar situations myself.
 As many already know, I  served in AmeriCorps and did quite a few
service projects.
  the sum of these expiriences taught me that you are  almost always
going to run into some situation  where folks say yo can't do
something. I have done things by  myself, done things with people I
know, have partnered up with  people I don't know to get a project
done and I have met just about the same amount of mixed  results.
  This really got me excited about starting a community service group
in the nfb which is  something I am  still working on.
 i do believe that approaching people with  a can-do, but realistic
mind set is probably the best way to go. beyond this, I am not so sure
if there is a simple answer,or series of them that unlocks that door
that always seems to block us from being the contributing members of
society that decide to serve that we desire to be.
 I am sure I will think of more, but at this point  this is all I have. :)
  take care, and happy friday to you all!

 Darian

On 1/20/13, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> arielle.
> I agree.
> there are still negative experiences than the positive ones.
>
> Blessings,
> Melissa and Pj
> The very least you can do in your life is figure out what you hope for. And
>
> the most you can do is live inside that hope. Not admire it from a distance
>
> but live right in it, under its roof.
> Facebook: Melissa R. Green
> Twitter: melissa5674
> windows messenger: graduate1531 at msn.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Martin Luther King Junior Day of service.
>
>
> Hi all,
> Speaking of service, I'm just wondering if anyone has had any
> difficult experiences persuading people that you could still
> participate in service activities in spite of blindness? If something
> like this came up how did you handle it and were you successful in
> advocating to be included in the activity?
> As some of you know, some blind friends and I had a not-so-good
> experience a few years ago when we tried to prepare a meal for folks
> at Ronald McDonald House. The house manager sent someone to supervise
> us, and was upset that we did not bring a sighted companion with us. I
> was even told that our arrival without a sighted companion had
> inconvenienced them more than it had helped them, despite the
> substantial monetary donation we made to them in buying the food.
> I also have a blind friend who tried to volunteer at a horseback
> riding place (ironically, one that provided therapeutic horse riding
> to children with disabilities). She wanted to help with grooming and
> caring for the horses, and was refused because of blindness.
> I hate to be so negative as it is great to see so many folks who have
> successfully participated in community service. But unfortunately
> discrimination does still happen. How do we overcome it and continue
> to show our communities that we are capable of giving back and want to
> do so?
> Arielle
>
> On 1/20/13, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea APO!  I'm an APO alum and had tons of wonderful community service
>> experiences with them in college.
>>
>> The elementary school I work at now is having a day of service tomorrow
>> by
>> inviting teachers, students, and families to come clean up the road that
>> runs by our school.  It should be a great way to reach out to the
>> neighborhoods around the school.  I plan to participate, especially since
>>
>> I
>> am a resident of one of those neighborhoods. :)
>>
>> Enjoy your day of service.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am a member of a co-ed service fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.  It's
>>> one of the largest international fraternal groups and is based on the
>>> service principles of the boy and girl scouts organizations.
>>> Typically we have our meetings on Sunday nights, but our president had
>>> the same idea as you and decided to schedule our first meeting of the
>>> year, where the majority of our service for this semester will be
>>> discussed and voted on, for MLK day.  Although we won't necessarioly
>>> be doing service yet, MLK day will be when we do the planning to set
>>> up the next three months of volunteer work.
>>>
>>> On 1/19/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey folks,
>>>> Being an alumnus of AmeriCorps, I firmly believe that Martin Luther
>>>> King
>>>> Junior's birthday (holiday)  Is a date on, not a day off.
>>>> This being said, I have every intention of going out and being real
>>>> deep
>>>> in
>>>> community service activities.
>>>>
>>>> Do you all have any such plans? And if so, what are they?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan 26 21:23:00 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:23:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Job Announcement--Braille Proofreader Baltimore
Message-ID: <auto-000095322110@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Attached is the Position Description for a Braille Proofreader at 
>the Maryland IRC.  Anyone interested should send a letter/resume to:
>
>
>Human Resources
>
>The Maryland School for the Blind
>3501 Taylor Avenue
>
>Baltimore, MD 21236
>
>or via email to 
><mailto:resumes at mdschblind.org>resumes at mdschblind.org, or by faxing 
>to the recruitment office at 410-319-5707.
-------------- next part --------------
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From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 01:26:24 2013
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 17:26:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an the
	braillenote?
Message-ID: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>

Hi,
I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download 
books on the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I 
got a book just fine.  But since Thursday I've been having 
trouble on the site, because my braille-note gets stuck in one of 
the security alert dialog boxes.  My brother, who is also blind, 
said the same thing is happening to him.
Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of 
maintinance, or at least has anyone else had this problem?
Thanks.
Vejas


From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 01:36:20 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:36:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an the
	braillenote?
In-Reply-To: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>
References: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <583C890E-DB87-44A7-9C06-7E93F6444FF5@gmail.com>

I have not had such a problem with Bookshare in the past. I would also recommend subscribing to the braille note list if you aren't already! If you need the instructions on how to subscribe, please let me know!

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 26, 2013, at 6:26 PM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download books on the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I got a book just fine.  But since Thursday I've been having trouble on the site, because my braille-note gets stuck in one of the security alert dialog boxes.  My brother, who is also blind, said the same thing is happening to him.
> Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of maintinance, or at least has anyone else had this problem?
> Thanks.
> Vejas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 01:37:02 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:37:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an the
	braillenote?
In-Reply-To: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>
References: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2532338893106940813@unknownmsgid>

I have been having the same problem. It has always come up with at
least one security alert dialog, but it usually went away after the
first time. Now it gets stuck in the box. Not sure what's going on,
might email book share about it.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:27 PM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download books on the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I got a book just fine.  But since Thursday I've been having trouble on the site, because my braille-note gets stuck in one of the security alert dialog boxes.  My brother, who is also blind, said the same thing is happening to him.
> Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of maintinance, or at least has anyone else had this problem?
> Thanks.
> Vejas
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 01:44:43 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:44:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an the
	braillenote?
In-Reply-To: <2532338893106940813@unknownmsgid>
References: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>
	<2532338893106940813@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fadg-TE-WyN7svpud-6AcRjgJSFtNhYTtL5d-=nr2TqoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I know recently that Bookshare was having beta testers try a few
things out, but all the testing seemed like it was pc-based as they
wanted to know which web browsers people were using.  Perhaps they
have released new code which the BrailleNote doesn't like.  As far as
I understand the tests did not ask for people to test the site using
notetakers, which would have probably been the smart thing to do.  Of
course, hindsight is 20/20.  I would email support and let them know
about this issue so they can fix or adjust the code to make it
accessible.

HTH.

On 1/26/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been having the same problem. It has always come up with at
> least one security alert dialog, but it usually went away after the
> first time. Now it gets stuck in the box. Not sure what's going on,
> might email book share about it.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:27 PM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download books on
>> the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I got a book just
>> fine.  But since Thursday I've been having trouble on the site, because my
>> braille-note gets stuck in one of the security alert dialog boxes.  My
>> brother, who is also blind, said the same thing is happening to him.
>> Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of maintinance,
>> or at least has anyone else had this problem?
>> Thanks.
>> Vejas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 02:14:42 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:14:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an
	the	braillenote?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fadg-TE-WyN7svpud-6AcRjgJSFtNhYTtL5d-=nr2TqoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5104824e.616d310a.3418.6ba6@mx.google.com>	<2532338893106940813@unknownmsgid>
	<CAFja7Fadg-TE-WyN7svpud-6AcRjgJSFtNhYTtL5d-=nr2TqoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005a01cdfc34$11dede90$359c9bb0$@gmail.com>

Kaiti and all,

	Actually, I'm on the beta team for Bookshare, and as of this writing
we (or at least I) haven't gotten any emails from the Bookshare people about
any new beta tests. The last note I got from them was back in December about
some tests on a new Web Reader feature they were trying out. I had already
tested this feature in November, but it seemed as though they had fixed some
bugs we had noticed then and wanted to do another test before public
release. When I wrote the project manager back and asked her what was going
on and when these tests would be done, she said I would hear back from them
when they were ready to do another test. I have not heard back yet. Since I
have a direct line of communication with the Bookshare project manager, I
may write to her about this security alert dialogue problem and see if she
could give us some more information.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 8:45 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an the
braillenote?

Hi all,

I know recently that Bookshare was having beta testers try a few things out,
but all the testing seemed like it was pc-based as they wanted to know which
web browsers people were using.  Perhaps they have released new code which
the BrailleNote doesn't like.  As far as I understand the tests did not ask
for people to test the site using notetakers, which would have probably been
the smart thing to do.  Of course, hindsight is 20/20.  I would email
support and let them know about this issue so they can fix or adjust the
code to make it accessible.

HTH.

On 1/26/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been having the same problem. It has always come up with at 
> least one security alert dialog, but it usually went away after the 
> first time. Now it gets stuck in the box. Not sure what's going on, 
> might email book share about it.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:27 PM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download 
>> books on the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I got a 
>> book just fine.  But since Thursday I've been having trouble on the 
>> site, because my braille-note gets stuck in one of the security alert 
>> dialog boxes.  My brother, who is also blind, said the same thing is
happening to him.
>> Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of 
>> maintinance, or at least has anyone else had this problem?
>> Thanks.
>> Vejas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 04:07:08 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 22:07:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare an
	thebraillenote?
Message-ID: <5104a818.0e62b60a.5071.ffffbcb2@mx.google.com>

Vejas, I did not have this problem with Bookshare. However, I was 
doing a research thing for school last Wednesday or Thursday (I 
can't remember which), and the same thing happened. My 
braillenote got stuck in a security alert dialog box. This leads 
me to believe that it is a braillenote issue rather than a 
bookshare issue.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 17:26:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone else having problems with bookshare 
an thebraillenote?

Hi,
I'm a Bookshare user and have successfully been able to download
books on the braille-note in the past.  Last week on Friday, I
got a book just fine.  But since Thursday I've been having
trouble on the site, because my braille-note gets stuck in one of
the security alert dialog boxes.  My brother, who is also blind,
said the same thing is happening to him.
Does anyone know if Bookshare is going through some sort of
maintinance, or at least has anyone else had this problem?
Thanks.
Vejas

_______________________________________________
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 27 05:08:49 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:08:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: young Federationists to be featured on Nickelodeon
	special
Message-ID: <auto-000094689744@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>Dave,
>
>                 Could you circulate the following announcement 
> wherever you feel appropriate?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>
>Dear Fellow Federationists:
>
>                 Nick News, a program which airs monthly on the 
> Nickelodeon channel, presents the issues of our day in a way in 
> which children and teens are able to understand, helping them make 
> sense of the news. Hosted by former NBC and NPR reporter Linda 
> Elerbee, this program also features the stories of kids from around 
> our country. The episode which airs this Monday is no exception.
>
>                 On Monday, January 28, Nick News will feature a 
> special they are calling "Out of Sight: How Blind Kids See the 
> World." On this episode, they will feature five blind kids from 
> across the country as they tell their stories and give insight into 
> their lives, showing that they are pretty much just like their 
> sighted friends and classmates. Some of the teens featured on this 
> episode are active Federationists, including Sophie of Louisiana 
> and Chris of Maryland. There may be other young Federationists 
> featured on the episode, but I do not know if any of the other 
> interviewees are in fact members of the National Federation of the 
> Blind. However, I do know that our philosophy will be exhibited by 
> word and by example in this episode, and I hope it will give the 
> Nick News viewers a more accurate picture of blindness and blind people.
>
>                 This special will air on the Nickelodeon Channel on 
> Monday, January 28 at 8 PM Eastern, 7 PM Central, 6 PM Mountain, 
> and 5 PM Pacific. The show will repeat at 11 PM Eastern, 8 PM 
> Pacific for those of you living on the West Coast. If you are not 
> able to watch the show when it premiers, it will be archived on the 
> Nick News Web site and on their iTunes podcast page. Before 
> watching the episode, please read two articles which have been 
> published on the Internet about it. First, the article previewing 
> the special on the Nick News Web site: 
> <http://news.nick.com/01/2013/25/kids-see-through-the-challenges-of-blindness/>http://news.nick.com/01/2013/25/kids-see-through-the-challenges-of-blindness/; 
> and an article published on the American Foundation for the Blind's 
> (AFB's) Family Connect Web site for parents of blind children: 
> <http://www.familyconnect.org/news.asp?AnnouncementID=1371>http://www.familyconnect.org/news.asp?AnnouncementID=1371. 
> Then tune into the Nickelodeon Channel on January 28 at 8 PM 
> Eastern to see the episode. I hope you can tune in on Monday! 
> Please feel free to share this information with anyone who may be interested.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Chris Nusbaum

From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sun Jan 27 17:01:21 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Nickelodeon TV program about blind kids tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <CALks35QOZi7PipdcOy0fz3OOdqZgY3-K_LJbxWnUFKXr=QfgfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALks35QOZi7PipdcOy0fz3OOdqZgY3-K_LJbxWnUFKXr=QfgfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01cdfcaf$ef0f0df0$cd2d29d0$@labarrelaw.com>

Fyi

 

 

From: CO Parents of Blind Children [mailto:copobc at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:44 AM
To: Colorado Parents of Blind Children
Subject: Nickelodeon TV program about blind kids tomorrow

 


Blind Kids Share Their Stories in Nick News with Linda Ellerbee "Out of
Sight: How Blind Kids See the World"


Airing Monday, Jan. 28, at 8PM (ET/PT) on Nickelodeon 


NEW YORK, Jan. 23, 2013 - Kids describe what it's like to live without sight
in the brand-new Nick News with Linda Ellerbee special, "Out of Sight: How
Blind Kids See the World," premiering Monday, Jan. 28, at 8 p.m. ET/PT on
Nickelodeon. They discuss the challenges and opportunities
<http://www.afb.org/community.aspx?AnnouncementID=1371>  they face living in
blindness. 

"There are actually people who will stay away from us or won't talk to us,"
says 15-year-old Alyssa of Colorado Springs, Colo. "I had a friend - we were
really good friends - and after I went blind, he stopped coming around."

"Some people see my blindness as an easy target for bullying, for ridicule.
You know, taking advantage of my blindness," says 14-year-old Chris of
Baltimore, Md. 

The special discusses how many blind kids know more about what they can do
than what they cannot and how they use technologies to help them navigate a
"sighted" world. 

"Some people choose their clothes by using their vision," says 15-year-old
Santiago of Hollister, Calif. "I use an application
<http://www.afb.org/community.aspx?AnnouncementID=1371>  on my phone that
tells me the color of my clothes." 

10-year-old Xin Ju says she sees being blind as an advantage. "I don't need
to see something to believe in it. We use our hearts and our imaginations." 

"We've listened to what these kids tell us," says Ellerbee. "What they want
sighted kids to know about them which is, in most cases, that they are just
regular kids. But me, I think they're pretty special." 


 


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 21:10:51 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:10:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
Message-ID: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it. 

My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.

Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?

How do you type
regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.

I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too. 

Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?

Thanks for letting me know.

I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.

Ashley

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 21:20:02 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:20:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,
Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
it translated.
You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
tried using it for music.
Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
or my RefreshaBraille.
Arielle

On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages
> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented
> on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to
> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you
> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and
> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
> then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a
> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
> pen can be paired with it too.
>
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What
> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>
> Thanks for letting me know.
>
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 21:23:59 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:23:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>

Hi there, Yes, The iPhone And iPod do have those things, as in presentation, spreadsheet and wordprocessor, In the form of pages, keynote, and numbers. These programs are pretty much accessible to voiceover. As for the keyboard, I use the dictation feature on my iPhone 4S. I find this a lot easier than typing on the small touchscreen keyboard. I interact with applications and such by using the touchscreen, yes.
I hope this helps you, somewhat.
Josh

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it. 
> 
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
> 
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
> 
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
> 
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too. 
> 
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
> 
> Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 21:37:12 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:37:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>

Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.

Sophie Trist
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it. 
> 
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
> 
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
> 
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
> 
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too. 
> 
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
> 
> Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 21:52:50 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>

Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>
> Sophie Trist
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 27 22:00:21 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:00:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NASA Summer 2013 Frequently Asked Questions for
 Prospective Student Interns with Disabilities
Message-ID: <auto-000095385589@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>NASA Summer 2013 Frequently Asked Questions for Prospective Student 
>Interns with Disabilities
>
>*       What does NASA do?  In aeronautics, NASA enables a safer, 
>more secure, efficient, and environmentally friendly air 
>transportation system.  In human exploration, NASA operates the 
>International Space Station (ISS) and prepares for human exploration 
>beyond low Earth orbit.  In science, NASA explores the Earth-Sun 
>system, our own solar system, and the universe beyond.  In 
>engineering, NASA designs the aircraft, spacecraft, and scientific 
>instruments that make all of this possible.
>
>*       In what fields are NASA's internship opportunities?  NASA 
>has internships in aerospace, chemical, environmental, materials, 
>mechanical, civil, electrical, thermal, systems, optical, robotic 
>and computer hardware and software engineering.  Engineers also work 
>in the fields of composites, cryogenics, microelectronics, signal 
>processing, high performance computing , and nanotechnology .  Our 
>computer engineers develop artificial intelligence systems, and 
>conduct research into data information and visualization systems 
>technology .  NASA computer scientists develop models that help us 
>learn about gravitational astrophysics, study the Earth's oceans, 
>study the Earth's atmosphere, and study the biospheres of other 
>planets.  Earth and planetary scientists study the physics and 
>chemistry of the Earth's oceans, the Earth's atmosphere, and the 
>biospheres of other planets and exoplanets, using these 
>models.  Astrophysicists use satellites, aircraft, balloons and 
>sounding rockets to conduct research into high energy astrophysics, 
>astroparticle physics, stellar physics, heliophysics, and 
>cosmology.  Some of the other areas of study at NASA are radiation, 
>space weather, geodynamics, planetary magnetospheres, geospace 
>physics, and climatology.  Remote sensing is crucial to all of this 
>research.  Our engineers and scientists work with radio, thermal, 
>infrared, optical, ultraviolet, X-ray, gamma ray, laser, particle, 
>acoustic and many other types of sensors and detectors.
>
>*       Where are NASA internship opportunities located?  Internship 
>opportunities are located at NASA centers and field installations 
>all over the country:  Ames Research Center, Moffett Federal 
>Airfield, Mountain View, California; Dryden Flight Research Center, 
>Edwards Air Force Base, Los Angeles County, California; Glenn 
>Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio; Goddard Institute for Space 
>Studies, New York City, New York; Goddard Space Flight Center, 
>Greenbelt, Maryland; Independent Verification and Validation 
>Facility, Fairmont, West Virginia; Jet Propulsion Laboratory, 
>Pasadena, California; Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas; Kennedy 
>Space Center, Merritt Island, Florida; Langley Research Center, 
>Hampton, Virginia; Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, 
>Alabama; Michoud Assembly Facility, New Orleans, Louisiana; NASA 
>Headquarters, Washington, DC; NASA Shared Services Center at Stennis 
>Space Center, Mississippi; Stennis Space Center, near Bay St. Louis, 
>Mississippi; Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Virginia; 
>White Sands Complex, Las Cruces, New Mexico; and White Sands Test 
>Facility, Las Cruces, New Mexico.
>
>*       The OSSI Frequently Asked Questions link is 
>https://intern.nasa.gov/ossi/web/faq/index.cfm?subAction=VIEW
>
>*       What does OSSI:NIFS stand for?  OSSI:NIFS is the One Stop 
>Shopping Initiative for NASA Internships, Fellowships, and Scholarships.
>
>*       Is there an OSSI:NIFS help desk?  The help desk E-mail is 
><MSFC-DL-HelpdeskMSFC at mail.nasa.gov>.  The help desk phone is 
>1-866-419-6297.  The help desk hours of operation are 24/7.
>
>*       How do I apply?  Here is how to apply.  The application is 
>online.  You need to go to <http://intern.nasa.gov>.  Then click on 
>internships.  Next click on the register-as-a-student Button.  You 
>then need to continue by registering, completing your interest 
>profile, and application.  Then, you must search for specific 
>internship opportunities at specific NASA centers and field 
>installations and apply for them.  Letters of recommendation are 
>uploaded by the recommender.  Your application will not be completed 
>until at least one letter of recommendation is uploaded.  This means 
>that you will not be able to apply to, although you will be able to 
>view, specific opportunities until you have at least one letter of 
>recommendation uploaded to the OSSI:NIFS system.  The "getting 
>Started" link, visible after you login, should help you as you go 
>through the aforementioned process.  Nothing is accepted by snail mail.
>
>*       I am not currently a student because I either graduated or 
>am taking some time out from school; am I eligible to apply?  You 
>must be accepted to an accredited institution of higher learning, 
>i.e., a college or university, at the time of the internship.  So, 
>if you don't plan to continue with your formal education next Summer 
>or Fall, I'm sorry to tell you that you would not be eligible to 
>apply for a NASA internship.
>
>*       Can good letters of recommendation really help me land a 
>NASA internship?  You will have a better chance of being selected 
>for an internship if you have your recommenders tailor their letters 
>for the specific opportunities that you will be applying to.  This 
>is because your recommenders will be explaining to the mentors why 
>your skills will be a good match.
>
>*       How long does a recommender have to submit her/his letter of 
>recommendation?  Recommenders receive an E-mail from the OSSI:NIFS 
>system after an applicant enters a recommenders name and other 
>information.  This E-mail gives instructions and a link for 
>uploading the letter to an applicant's account.  The link is 
>specific with a user name and password.  Warning!  The link is 
>disabled 20 calendar days after it is sent to the recommender.  The 
>applicant must enter the recommender's information again after the 
>20 calendar days has expired.
>
>*       How do I upload a transcript?  What if I want to update the 
>transcript?  After logging into your account, click on "My 
>Applications."  Then, click on "Education."  Go to your college, and 
>click on the "Upload" button, and upload  a transcript.  Then, save 
>the record.  If you want to update the transcript, repeat the 
>aforementioned process, and the old transcript will be overwritten 
>by the new transcript.  This change will affect all of the 
>internship opportunities that you applied or will apply to.
>
>*       How do I disclose my disability status if I am a student 
>with a disability?  There is a place in the online application 
>process to voluntarily disclose disability status.  It is located 
>under "My Applications."  Then, click on "General 
>Information."  This information is used in order to determine the 
>degree to which members of each disability, ethnic, and racial group 
>are reached by this internship/fellowship program.  Additionally, 
>NASA uses information about disability status to provide reasonable 
>accommodation if requested.  NASA requests that the student select 
>the appropriate responses. While providing this information is 
>optional, you must select decline to answer if you do not want to 
>provide it. Mentors will not be able to view this information when 
>considering students for opportunities.  For more information, 
>please visit the following website:
>
>http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/HP_Privacy.html
>
>*       Why can't I find any internship opportunities specifically 
>for students with disabilities?  There are no NASA internships 
>specifically for students with disabilities.  Students with 
>disabilities compete with other students for our internships.  We 
>are making a concerted effort to recruit students with disabilities 
>into our mainstream internship programs.
>
>*       Why do I see so few internship opportunities when I search 
>for them?  The OSSI:NIFS system only displays internship 
>opportunities that request students at the grade level that you 
>entered, i.e. the grade level that you will be at the time the 
>internship begins.  The way to work around this is to search for 
>opportunities before you log in at 
><https://intern.nasa.gov/ossi/web/public/guest/searchOpps/>.  A 
>pre-login search will eliminate the grade-level limitation on your 
>search.  When you find an opportunity that you wish to apply to, 
>open it and apply.  You will be prompted to log in at this 
>point.  Do so, and you will be able to apply or add it to your saved 
>opportunities of interest.
>
>*       What is the deadline for applying?  The deadline for 
>submitting applications is Friday, March 15, 2013, and we will begin 
>extending offers to students as early as February 2, 2013.
>
>*       What is the minimum GPA in order to qualify for a NASA 
>internship?  A minimum GPA of 2.8 is required for college students 
>and 3.0 for high school students.  However, applicants must 
>understand that the competition for internships is keen.
>
>*       What is the minimum age for an intern?  High school students 
>must be at least sixteen years old at the time the internship 
>begins.  There is no upper age limit for college students.
>
>*       When and for how long do Summer 2013 internships 
>run?  Summer 2013 internships run from June 3 until August 9 for 
>college students and from June 24 until August 2 for high school students.
>
>*       Do I get paid?  Yes, all student interns get paid.  For 
>example, at Goddard college students receive a stipend of $6000 and 
>high school students $1800.
>
>*       What do I do for housing?  You will not be assigned 
>housing.  You must find it on your own.  We do have lists of places 
>that other students have stayed.  However, we do not recommend 
>specific housing.  You will be expected to find  and pay for your 
>own housing out of your stipend.
>
>*       Do I need to be a United States citizen to apply? 
>Yes.  Having a green card does not qualify someone as a U.S. citizen 
>for purposes of this program.  Please go to the following link to 
>learn about internship opportunities for foreign citizens:
>
>https://intern.nasa.gov/content/internship-information/one-stop-shopping-initiative-ossi-student-online-a/non-us-opportunities/index.html
>
>*       I'm having browser problems; what should I do?  We can offer 
>some suggestions on what to do without knowing what browser of OS 
>the student is using.  First, if they are using IE 9, please click 
>on the Compatibility View, located on the Address bar.  If they are 
>using IE 8, please click on the Compatibility View, located under 
>tools on the menu bar.  This should correct the display.  If they 
>are using Firefox 5, try typing in the entire institution name 
>and  then tab down to get the address to fill completely.  If 
>neither of these work, please use the OSSI Information Center (OIC) 
>to submit the technical inquiry at the following link:
>
>https://intern.nasa.gov/content/help/ossi-information-center-oic/index.html
>
>*       I'm having trouble selecting a college; what should I 
>do?  When selecting a college, don't put anything in the edit field 
>for the school, and just click search.  You will then see a section 
>at the bottom of the page that allows you to select a school, city, 
>and state.  Put in the city and state.  Again, leave the school 
>field blank.  The website will give you a list of schools in that 
>city and state as links.  Just click on the school that you want, 
>and it should be entered as your school in the original edit field.
>
>*       I'm a high school student, and I don't have a college to 
>enter yet: what should I do?  Just write in a college that you think 
>that you would like to attend.  You will be asked for your high 
>school later on in the application process.
>
>*       Should I apply to all opportunities which look interesting 
>to me at the same time, or sequentially by my priority 
>interest?  The choice is yours.  You can apply to a maximum of 15.
>
>*       If I apply to multiple internship opportunities at the same 
>time, would I only receive an offer from one?  You may get an offer 
>from more than one opportunity.  However, once you accept an 
>offer.  You cannot accept anymore offers.  You are committed.
>
>*       Do all internship opportunities reply at the same time if I 
>apply for them concurrently?  No.
>
>*       Does NASA only have Summer internships?  NASA internships 
>for college students are also offered during Spring, Fall, and 
>Year-Long Sessions.
>
>*       Are NASA internships only for students with 
>disabilities?  No.  Students with disabilities compete with other 
>students for internships.  Disclosure of one's disability, during 
>the application process, is only seen by the Office of 
>Education.  The mentors, who select their students, do not have 
>access to this information.  We use information about a student's 
>disability to provide reasonable accommodation in a timely manner if 
>reasonable accommodation is requested.
>
>*       For whom does NASA have internships?  NASA has internships 
>for high school students and for rising freshmen through doctoral 
>students in STEM fields. A rising freshman is a high school student 
>who has been accepted to an accredited institution of higher 
>learning, i.e., a college or university, at the time of the internship.
>
>*       Where are NASA internships located?  Internships are 
>available at all NASA centers and field installations nationwide. 
>Students can submit a completed application whether they apply to an 
>opportunity or not. However, applying to opportunities has the 
>advantage of allowing applicants to be considered by mentors who 
>work in disciplines of interest and at a particular center. 
>Applicants may apply to as many as fifteen posted 
>opportunities.  For example, an opportunity having to do with the 
>Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) will be at the Goddard Space Flight 
>Center in Maryland because SDO is located there. Not applying to an 
>opportunity means that prospective interns will be hoping that a 
>mentor happens to read their applications rather than directing 
>their applications to mentors in fields and at centers of interest.
>
>*       What happens if I am selected for an internship?  Students 
>who are selected for summer internships will receive an offer letter 
>by E-mail sometime after February 1, 2013. They will then have five 
>days to either accept or reject the offer through their OSSI: NIFS 
>account. The offer will automatically expire after five days if no 
>action is taken.
>
>Please feel free to contact me for more information or help with applying.
>
>Kenneth A. Silberman, Esq.
>U.S. Supreme Court, Maryland, & Patent Bars B.A., M.Eng., J.D.
>NASA Engineer & Registered Patent Attorney Office of Education, Code 
>160 NASA/GSFC Mailstop 160, Bldg. 28, Rm. N165, Greenbelt, MD  20771, USA
>Voice:  (301) 286-9281
>Fax:  (301) 286-1655
>E-mail:  kenneth.a.silberman at nasa.gov



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:00:28 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:00:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8189422657571527522@unknownmsgid>

I too use the dictation feature mostly when typing on my iPhone, and
only type on the touchscreen keyboard when I am typing something such
as a person's name that I know dictation will misspell. I also have a
Bluetooth keyboard which I compare with my iPhone and use for writing
longer messages and emails. Another nice feature of iOS is that iOS
devices support braille displays and notetakers. So, if you have a
stand alone braille display such as a braille Connect or a notetaker
such as the braille note, you can compare it to your iOS device using
Bluetooth and it type in braille using your braille displays
keyboards. Everything on your iPhone's screen will also show up in
braille, which sometimes comes in handy, as you can turn the speech
off on voice over and still operate your phone. Hope this helps!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there, Yes, The iPhone And iPod do have those things, as in presentation, spreadsheet and wordprocessor, In the form of pages, keynote, and numbers. These programs are pretty much accessible to voiceover. As for the keyboard, I use the dictation feature on my iPhone 4S. I find this a lot easier than typing on the small touchscreen keyboard. I interact with applications and such by using the touchscreen, yes.
> I hope this helps you, somewhat.
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:02:18 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:02:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>

Arielle,

All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
certain song or artist.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
> it translated.
> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
> tried using it for music.
> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
> or my RefreshaBraille.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages
>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented
>> on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to
>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you
>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and
>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a
>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What
>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From jeffc4 at lavabit.com  Sun Jan 27 22:26:34 2013
From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:26:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
Message-ID: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>

Hi all,
Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.

thanks

Jeff Crouch




From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:28:40 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:28:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYL12zWaRQvxC8kP_6zQDuHMHOMzj+O-svjYLFQ+OxJsg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

As Arielle said, touch typing makes using the on-screen keyboard much
easier and efficient.  To do this use the rotery gesture, (hold your
hand which isn't holding the phone perpindicular to the screen.  With
your index and midele finger perform the gesture of pushing one finger
forward and pulling one back at the same time to make like a spinning
motion of sorts.  Do this till you hear typing mode, then swipe one
finger down till you hear touch typing.  After this it's a good idea
to do the rotery motion one more time to avoid losing your setting if
you're not carefull with the gestures yet).  It's easiest to do this
in the messages app, you may have to put your cursor in the edit field
but I'm not sure.  Give it a try.
Even the primitive version of siri will play music or call someone for
you.  I use it all the time to play songs in my library, "Play insert
song of choice," or "Call home."  Since you have Siri you can also use
her to send emails, texts, and look things up from Safari without
actually using the apps themselves.
I just got a bluetooth keyboard case which is really nice because the
keyboard is always there.  I also have paired it with my notetaker
before and have found that to be really helpful.  If you want it to be
a little mini computer with word and excel functions use the apps that
were listed above but I would definitely use a braille display with
those to make it a little more efficient.  HTH.

P.S.  If you go into settings there is a voiceover tutorial where you
can practice your gestures.  It might be good for getting oriented.

On 1/27/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle,
>
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
> certain song or artist.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>> it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>>> messages
>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>> oriented
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even
>>> for
>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
>>> to
>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
>>> you
>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
>>> and
>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
>>> and
>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently
>>> and a
>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
>>> braille
>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>>
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>> What
>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan
>>> ap?
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:29:52 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:29:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <E553E781-EAA5-495D-B8D1-9E6110F1E2E4@gmail.com>

Hi Jeff, nope, sorry. Only works with apex.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
> anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:29:53 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:29:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <C6E61FE7-750A-470F-8B3C-B8C03BEBC2A3@gmail.com>

hi jeff,

I may be totally wrong here because i have no clue on what  the hex a braille display does to start with, but i never heard of a way no. all i heard is iPhone apps that you can type braille into, which most people found to be quite not worth the work.

Mauricio
On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
> anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:30:23 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:30:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb6eH9NH8Zt-3xbS3yFJV+KEuFqqFFv39BfUJzQ0+bE3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

You can connect a notetaker to the IPhone through a bluetooth
connection.  Search for the devices on both the notetaker and the
IPhone, (settings, bluetooth).  You may need someone to help you enter
the code on the IPhone as at least in my experiences it times out
pretty quickly, but that should do it.

On 1/27/13, jeffc4 at lavabit.com <jeffc4 at lavabit.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
> anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.
>
> thanks
>
> Jeff Crouch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From ajschwichow at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:30:36 2013
From: ajschwichow at gmail.com (Alexa Schwichow)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:30:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <181BF3E1541E4505A74823EA66047751@alexalaptop>

Hello,
    I am an IPhone user. Yes, I can ask Siri to play me a certain song. 
Also, I can dictate messages such as texts and e-mails using Siri. If you 
want help staying oriented with the keyboard, SpeedDots makes tactile screen 
protectors for IPhones, IPods, and IPads. I hope this helps!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:10 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility


> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
> oriented on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with 
> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile 
> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for 
> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri 
> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can 
> you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it 
> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it 
> and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and 
> a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the 
> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? 
> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and 
> Navigan ap?
>
> Thanks for letting me know.
>
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gmail.com
> 



From zdreicer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:30:13 2013
From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:30:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
References: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <3D18BF67-FB9B-4114-91AF-13FAD2F7BB98@gmail.com>

Hey Mr. Jeff! Haven't talk to you in a while! I believe you need to have an apex to connect it to your iPhone. I will try to call you on Skype again soon.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
> anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com


From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:36:36 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYL12zWaRQvxC8kP_6zQDuHMHOMzj+O-svjYLFQ+OxJsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<CAFja7FYL12zWaRQvxC8kP_6zQDuHMHOMzj+O-svjYLFQ+OxJsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD21118A-E388-453D-A592-7975ED609384@gmail.com>

ps: I always found the touchscreen to be easier, because as i use two languages and am always walking, dictation misspells things.
I don't know why people make the big deal of the year of the touch screens.
its like anything else, you grab it, you practice it a few months, you narrow it down and you're happy and awesome doing your stuff.
I am not a braille heavy person myself, though i defend its use during elementary and when necessary, but as they've said, you can pair your braille note devices on it too (I didn't think you could) if you want.
you'll love your iPod, and i recommend blind square (gps) look tell (tells you bills&coins) Skype, whatsapp, (you send free texts, basically), hey tell, and a great deal of others that won't fit in this e-mail.

Mauricio
On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> As Arielle said, touch typing makes using the on-screen keyboard much
> easier and efficient.  To do this use the rotery gesture, (hold your
> hand which isn't holding the phone perpindicular to the screen.  With
> your index and midele finger perform the gesture of pushing one finger
> forward and pulling one back at the same time to make like a spinning
> motion of sorts.  Do this till you hear typing mode, then swipe one
> finger down till you hear touch typing.  After this it's a good idea
> to do the rotery motion one more time to avoid losing your setting if
> you're not carefull with the gestures yet).  It's easiest to do this
> in the messages app, you may have to put your cursor in the edit field
> but I'm not sure.  Give it a try.
> Even the primitive version of siri will play music or call someone for
> you.  I use it all the time to play songs in my library, "Play insert
> song of choice," or "Call home."  Since you have Siri you can also use
> her to send emails, texts, and look things up from Safari without
> actually using the apps themselves.
> I just got a bluetooth keyboard case which is really nice because the
> keyboard is always there.  I also have paired it with my notetaker
> before and have found that to be really helpful.  If you want it to be
> a little mini computer with word and excel functions use the apps that
> were listed above but I would definitely use a braille display with
> those to make it a little more efficient.  HTH.
> 
> P.S.  If you go into settings there is a voiceover tutorial where you
> can practice your gestures.  It might be good for getting oriented.
> 
> On 1/27/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>> 
>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
>> certain song or artist.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>>> it translated.
>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>>> tried using it for music.
>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>>>> messages
>>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>>> oriented
>>>> on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even
>>>> for
>>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
>>>> to
>>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
>>>> you
>>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
>>>> and
>>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
>>>> and
>>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently
>>>> and a
>>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
>>>> braille
>>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>>> What
>>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan
>>>> ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com



From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Sun Jan 27 22:37:01 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:37:01 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE:  I devices accessibility
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E142@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Alexa.
Welcome to the list.
I've heard all kinds of talk about Siri, but I don't know much about it.
Could you please go into detail about it for those of us that have never heard of it, or don't know much about it?
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Alexa Schwichow [ajschwichow at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Hello,
    I am an IPhone user. Yes, I can ask Siri to play me a certain song.
Also, I can dictate messages such as texts and e-mails using Siri. If you
want help staying oriented with the keyboard, SpeedDots makes tactile screen
protectors for IPhones, IPods, and IPads. I hope this helps!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:10 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility


> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
> oriented on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
> you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
> and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and
> a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
> Navigan ap?
>
> Thanks for letting me know.
>
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gmail.com
>


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 22:39:30 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:39:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <3D18BF67-FB9B-4114-91AF-13FAD2F7BB98@gmail.com>
References: <63052.68.41.62.184.1359325594.squirrel@lavabit.com>
	<3D18BF67-FB9B-4114-91AF-13FAD2F7BB98@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <968F5300-D68F-4E17-A201-EEEA916CDDC0@gmail.com>

Hi Zack, this assumption is correct, the other notetakers from Humanware do not have the hardware or software to handle it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:30 PM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Mr. Jeff! Haven't talk to you in a while! I believe you need to have an apex to connect it to your iPhone. I will try to call you on Skype again soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is their
>> anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a desplay.
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> Jeff Crouch
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 23:06:04 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:06:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC><CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>

So what is notes and what does it do?
Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like 
Microsoft's Word pad?
Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like numbered 
lists and I don't think it does
bold items either.

-----Original Message----- 
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. 
> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display 
> and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get 
> Pages.
>
> Sophie Trist
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>> oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with 
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile 
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even 
>> for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri 
>> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean 
>> can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays 
>> it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it 
>> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it 
>> and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently 
>> and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the 
>> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? 
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and 
>> Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 23:10:05 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:10:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <8189422657571527522@unknownmsgid>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC><28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
	<8189422657571527522@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <A742801EA8A246DE8FF7977C725A7F3A@OwnerPC>

Hello all,
Thanks for the comments. Wow, I didn't realize there was the dictation 
feature.
So, is this free when you purchase the iPhone? Also, is it on the Ipod 
touch?

Is Pages, Keynote, and Numbers
free when you purchase these apple products? If not, did you find it easy to 
buy and install?

Thanks.
Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

I too use the dictation feature mostly when typing on my iPhone, and
only type on the touchscreen keyboard when I am typing something such
as a person's name that I know dictation will misspell. I also have a
Bluetooth keyboard which I compare with my iPhone and use for writing
longer messages and emails. Another nice feature of iOS is that iOS
devices support braille displays and notetakers. So, if you have a
stand alone braille display such as a braille Connect or a notetaker
such as the braille note, you can compare it to your iOS device using
Bluetooth and it type in braille using your braille displays
keyboards. Everything on your iPhone's screen will also show up in
braille, which sometimes comes in handy, as you can turn the speech
off on voice over and still operate your phone. Hope this helps!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there, Yes, The iPhone And iPod do have those things, as in 
> presentation, spreadsheet and wordprocessor, In the form of pages, 
> keynote, and numbers. These programs are pretty much accessible to 
> voiceover. As for the keyboard, I use the dictation feature on my iPhone 
> 4S. I find this a lot easier than typing on the small touchscreen 
> keyboard. I interact with applications and such by using the touchscreen, 
> yes.
> I hope this helps you, somewhat.
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>> oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with 
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile 
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even 
>> for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri 
>> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean 
>> can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays 
>> it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it 
>> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it 
>> and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently 
>> and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the 
>> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? 
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and 
>> Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 23:13:28 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:13:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <A742801EA8A246DE8FF7977C725A7F3A@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
	<8189422657571527522@unknownmsgid>
	<A742801EA8A246DE8FF7977C725A7F3A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <8D8D39E4-C188-4515-A129-5F0FDEB968DB@gmail.com>

Yes, dictation is free but it is only on the iPhone 4S, the iPod five and the iPad 3. These apps are not free, but they're only either five or 10 bucks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello all,
> Thanks for the comments. Wow, I didn't realize there was the dictation feature.
> So, is this free when you purchase the iPhone? Also, is it on the Ipod touch?
> 
> Is Pages, Keynote, and Numbers
> free when you purchase these apple products? If not, did you find it easy to buy and install?
> 
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:00 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> I too use the dictation feature mostly when typing on my iPhone, and
> only type on the touchscreen keyboard when I am typing something such
> as a person's name that I know dictation will misspell. I also have a
> Bluetooth keyboard which I compare with my iPhone and use for writing
> longer messages and emails. Another nice feature of iOS is that iOS
> devices support braille displays and notetakers. So, if you have a
> stand alone braille display such as a braille Connect or a notetaker
> such as the braille note, you can compare it to your iOS device using
> Bluetooth and it type in braille using your braille displays
> keyboards. Everything on your iPhone's screen will also show up in
> braille, which sometimes comes in handy, as you can turn the speech
> off on voice over and still operate your phone. Hope this helps!
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi there, Yes, The iPhone And iPod do have those things, as in presentation, spreadsheet and wordprocessor, In the form of pages, keynote, and numbers. These programs are pretty much accessible to voiceover. As for the keyboard, I use the dictation feature on my iPhone 4S. I find this a lot easier than typing on the small touchscreen keyboard. I interact with applications and such by using the touchscreen, yes.
>> I hope this helps you, somewhat.
>> Josh
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>> 
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>> 
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>> 
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>> 
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>> 
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>> 
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 23:13:55 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:13:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>

Chris,
I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in 
itunes first?
I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean 
both sighted and blind people.
Thanks.
Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Arielle,

All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
certain song or artist.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
> it translated.
> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
> tried using it for music.
> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
> or my RefreshaBraille.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>> messages
>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>> oriented
>> on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even 
>> for
>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri 
>> to
>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can 
>> you
>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it 
>> and
>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently 
>> and a
>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? 
>> What
>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan 
>> ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 23:20:22 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:20:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE:  I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E142@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E142@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <F267897C753D4C76A100A19DA2037995@OwnerPC>

Joshua,
I only know a little about Siri because my family uses it on their iPhones.
It’s a feature where you talk to it and it searches for certain
items or calls people. You can ask it to search for nearby restaurants and 
locations; also ask it for sports scores.

I also asked if it can be used with itunes as a way of asking the device to 
play your songs in place of using the tapping gestures.
Apparently, you can ask Siri for specific music too, based on some replies 
I've seen.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE: I devices accessibility

Hi Alexa.
Welcome to the list.
I've heard all kinds of talk about Siri, but I don't know much about it.
Could you please go into detail about it for those of us that have never 
heard of it, or don't know much about it?
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Alexa Schwichow 
[ajschwichow at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Hello,
    I am an IPhone user. Yes, I can ask Siri to play me a certain song.
Also, I can dictate messages such as texts and e-mails using Siri. If you
want help staying oriented with the keyboard, SpeedDots makes tactile screen
protectors for IPhones, IPods, and IPads. I hope this helps!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:10 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility


> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
> oriented on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
> you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
> and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and
> a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
> Navigan ap?
>
> Thanks for letting me know.
>
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gmail.com
>


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 23:32:50 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:32:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>

I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Chris,
> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Arielle,
> 
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
> certain song or artist.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>> it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages
>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented
>>> on it.
>>> 
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>> 
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to
>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you
>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>> 
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and
>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>> 
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a
>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>> 
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What
>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>> 
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 27 23:33:46 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:33:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions
Message-ID: <80931B25D685457ABEA409A1DB02CD64@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

As I mentioned in the last message, I have an Ipod; it’s the ipod nano.
I got it for Christmas. They activated voice over on for me.

It’s a sleek lightweight thing and I’m amazed that technology can fit thousands of songs, books and data in these thin devices.
I struggle with itunes and  jaws too; it seems to be slow with jaws and I cannot tell where I am  like what folder I’m in, but that is a different story.

Anyway, I am trying to learn voiceover and gestures. I am getting better with double tapping it to execute functions.
I’m thankful though for the buttons on the side though to  make the volume go up and down and the middle button switches songs.

How do you move from screen to screen? I go into the music screen and select either albums or artists depending on what I want to search by.
Then, I’m stuck!
I see the list of albums, but only the first 7 or eight of them? How do you switch screens to see the rest of your albums? I have lots of albums in there so far; someone helped me sinc itunes and the ipod together. I need to scroll through the other screens to see my choices. 
I’m having trouble tapping the next track and previous track button because the volume button is so near it! Perhaps I’m moving my finger to the volume button and don’t even know it.
The smooth screen is definitely challenging. 

Also, can someone explain album art and what it does? Also, has anyone used the fitness feature? I heard it can track your workout somehow.
Is the fastest way to get to specific songs in an album to go to the track listing button while the album is playing?
Also, where do I buy bluetooth earphones? I wasn’t sure if you had to get them from Apple  or not.

Thanks.

Ashley

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 23:39:43 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:39:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBScg0Gqw1G4o8+H-yuogQACD_d=qVr+cra6+bJhxMZRA@mail.gmail.com>

Also I think you only have to activate touch typing once, not every
time you want to type something. So if you're not great with
touch-screen gestures like the rotor gesture, you can turn on touch
typing using a wireless keyboard, Braille device or even getting help
from another VoiceOver user or Apple Store employee and then you never
have to worry about it again.
One thing I still haven't figured out is how to enter passwords with
the touch screen, since VoiceOver doesn't give feedback about what
you're typing when you're in a secure field (it just says "*" no
matter what you type). So I always have to use my Braille keyboard to
enter passwords. Has anyone figured out how to do this reliably using
the touch screen?
ArielleArielle

On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Chris,
> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in
> itunes first?
> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean
>
> both sighted and blind people.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>
> Arielle,
>
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
> certain song or artist.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>> it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>>> messages
>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>> oriented
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even
>>> for
>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
>>>
>>> to
>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
>>> you
>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
>>>
>>> and
>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
>>> and
>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently
>>> and a
>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
>>> braille
>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>>
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>> What
>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan
>>>
>>> ap?
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 23:56:57 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:56:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBScg0Gqw1G4o8+H-yuogQACD_d=qVr+cra6+bJhxMZRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJBScg0Gqw1G4o8+H-yuogQACD_d=qVr+cra6+bJhxMZRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44FC215B-B97A-4996-98ED-39374E62BDBF@gmail.com>

i have some sight. and when i put passwords in my iPad, or iTouch, and there are just dots or stars that i see. but it just clicks when i type, so i count my passwords out, so i know what i am doing. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:39, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also I think you only have to activate touch typing once, not every
> time you want to type something. So if you're not great with
> touch-screen gestures like the rotor gesture, you can turn on touch
> typing using a wireless keyboard, Braille device or even getting help
> from another VoiceOver user or Apple Store employee and then you never
> have to worry about it again.
> One thing I still haven't figured out is how to enter passwords with
> the touch screen, since VoiceOver doesn't give feedback about what
> you're typing when you're in a secure field (it just says "*" no
> matter what you type). So I always have to use my Braille keyboard to
> enter passwords. Has anyone figured out how to do this reliably using
> the touch screen?
> ArielleArielle
> 
> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Chris,
>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in
>> itunes first?
>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean
>> 
>> both sighted and blind people.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christopher nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>> 
>> Arielle,
>> 
>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
>> certain song or artist.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>>> it translated.
>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>>> tried using it for music.
>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>>>> messages
>>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>>> oriented
>>>> on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even
>>>> for
>>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
>>>> 
>>>> to
>>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
>>>> you
>>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
>>>> 
>>>> and
>>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
>>>> and
>>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently
>>>> and a
>>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
>>>> braille
>>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>>> What
>>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan
>>>> 
>>>> ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 23:59:06 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:59:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>

my friend has a lot of music on her phone, and she tells the phone what to play, and it does. do u think she is using dictate. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:32, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Chris,
>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>> 
>> Arielle,
>> 
>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
>> certain song or artist.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
>>> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
>>> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
>>> it translated.
>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>>> tried using it for music.
>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
>>> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages
>>>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented
>>>> on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>>>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>>>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
>>>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to
>>>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you
>>>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and
>>>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
>>>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a
>>>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
>>>> pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What
>>>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:12:52 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:12:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <ECA26508-5FEF-4B12-81C1-F3277D3F4A64@gmail.com>

Hi Ashlee
THis is LaVonnya. I use an iPad for email, texting, calling people, and for my communication needs. There are apps that are set up for blind people. I down loaded it. I use apps for the blind, autistic, and for the deaf. I use the touch screen sometimes i use the blue tooth keyboard. U may email me off list, if u like. But I even keep notes on my iPad. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:10, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it. 
> 
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
> 
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
> 
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
> 
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too. 
> 
> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
> 
> Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:17:33 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:17:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96C0EA66-BA77-4B50-BBD2-037B04EB6D9E@gmail.com>

I have another friend with an iPhone, who uses siri to text, but she often has problems with reconition. So it doesn't hear every word So if u use Siri, b sure to speak slowly and clearly 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:20, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then use
> the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many cases,
> and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille and have
> it translated.
> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
> tried using it for music.
> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says the
> letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
> or my RefreshaBraille.
> Arielle
> 
> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages
>> sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented
>> on it.
>> 
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>> 
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to
>> perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you
>> ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>> 
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and
>> if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and
>> then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>> 
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a
>> few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille
>> pen can be paired with it too.
>> 
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What
>> does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>> 
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:18:33 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:18:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<28B88FC7-09AE-49EC-B255-EE12987B881D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B7AD6DA-88FF-41D3-AA5E-4CC0F47FE3F1@gmail.com>

Will dictate work on the iPad?

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:23, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there, Yes, The iPhone And iPod do have those things, as in presentation, spreadsheet and wordprocessor, In the form of pages, keynote, and numbers. These programs are pretty much accessible to voiceover. As for the keyboard, I use the dictation feature on my iPhone 4S. I find this a lot easier than typing on the small touchscreen keyboard. I interact with applications and such by using the touchscreen, yes.
> I hope this helps you, somewhat.
> Josh
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it. 
>> 
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>> 
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>> 
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>> 
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too. 
>> 
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>> 
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:21:05 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:21:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>

I love pages. as for notes, I use it. But iI also down loaded sticky notes. that way I can write a quick, and delete it when I am finished with it. and voice over does read it. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:52, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
> processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>> 
>> Sophie Trist
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>> 
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>> 
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>> 
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>> 
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>> 
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>> 
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com


From kathrynwebster at me.com  Mon Jan 28 00:21:09 2013
From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:21:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] D.C. Seminar
Message-ID: <F2F9AE4E-CD3B-4125-A73B-D611726DAD85@me.com>

Hey guys! Can anyone know what hotel the dc seminar is at, and if there is a train station near?
Kate :)

Sent from my iPhone


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:34:26 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:34:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE:  I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <F267897C753D4C76A100A19DA2037995@OwnerPC>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E142@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<F267897C753D4C76A100A19DA2037995@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <6E360486-5619-4301-8114-084E8BDD8885@gmail.com>

Ashley,
That's about half of what Siri does. You can also use it to dictate things you would normally type. I usually do this, for the sake of convenience, even know it sometimes having issues understanding my voice for some reason. See? That, right there, was a case in point. :-) Still, that being said, I think it works better for most people than it does for me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Joshua,
> I only know a little about Siri because my family uses it on their iPhones.
> It’s a feature where you talk to it and it searches for certain
> items or calls people. You can ask it to search for nearby restaurants and locations; also ask it for sports scores.
> 
> I also asked if it can be used with itunes as a way of asking the device to play your songs in place of using the tapping gestures.
> Apparently, you can ask Siri for specific music too, based on some replies I've seen.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE: I devices accessibility
> 
> Hi Alexa.
> Welcome to the list.
> I've heard all kinds of talk about Siri, but I don't know much about it.
> Could you please go into detail about it for those of us that have never heard of it, or don't know much about it?
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Alexa Schwichow [ajschwichow at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Hello,
>   I am an IPhone user. Yes, I can ask Siri to play me a certain song.
> Also, I can dictate messages such as texts and e-mails using Siri. If you
> want help staying oriented with the keyboard, SpeedDots makes tactile screen
> protectors for IPhones, IPods, and IPads. I hope this helps!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:10 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>> oriented on it.
>> 
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with
>> their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile
>> devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for
>> sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>> 
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri
>> to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can
>> you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>> 
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it
>> and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it
>> and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>> 
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and
>> a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the
>> braille pen can be paired with it too.
>> 
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
>> Navigan ap?
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>> 
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:38:03 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:38:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS213ABBD0D4ED6F527B8A16BCB180@phx.gbl>

Dear Ashley and all:
I have the Ipod  touch 4 generation.
I got it for Christmas this year, and I love it!
I know how to navigate using the touch screen, but I type using my bluetooth keyboard.
This is much easier for me.
I tried using Serie with my Ipod, but I belive that it's not supported with the IPod touch 4th gen.
I use my keyboard to write e-mails, write facebook messages, and so on.



I tried pairing my Braille note, but I waited to long to enter the code.
I hope you will find this information helpful.
BTW, I also got the Bluetooth keyboard az well.
Sincerely,
Preston Gaylor

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I love pages. as for notes, I use it. But iI also down loaded sticky notes. that way I can write a quick, and delete it when I am finished with it. and voice over does read it. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:52, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
>> processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>>> 
>>> Sophie Trist
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com

From coastergirl92 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 00:49:41 2013
From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:49:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
Message-ID: <5105cb5d.43f1440a.7a46.4b63@mx.google.com>

First=20off,=20I=20use=20Siri=20to=20send=20most=20of=20my=20texts=20and=20=
emails.=20=20And=20
yes,=20if=20you=20ask=20Siri=20to=20play=20a=20song=20and=20it's=20in=20you=
r=20collection,=20
she=20will.=20=20For=20example,=20if=20you=20have=20a=20playlist=20called=20=
partymix,=20
just=20say,=20"Play=20partymix.=20=20and=20it=20will=20start=20playing=20im=
mediately.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Sun,=2027=20Jan=202013=2016:10:51=20-0500
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20I=20devices=20accessibility

Hi=20all,

Many=20of=20you=20have=20I=20devices=20you=20communicate=20with=20now;=20I=
=E2=80=99ve=20seen=20
many=20messages=20sent=20from=20i-phones,=20ipod=20touches=20and=20a=20few=
=20ipads.
I=20have=20an=20ipod=20=20and=20am=20struggling=20with=20the=20touch=20scre=
en=20and=20
staying=20oriented=20on=20it.

My=20family=20and=20I=20were=20wondering=20how=20blind=20people=20most=20of=
ten=20
interact=20with=20their=20i-phone=20and=20I=20touch.=20=20I=20see=20many=20=
messages=20
written=20from=20these=20mobile=20devices,=20yet=20I=20know=20the=20touch=20=
screen=20
keyboard=20is=20rather=20small=20and=20even=20for=20sighted=20people=20it=20=
can=20be=20
challenging=20to=20use.
So=20I=20was=20wondering=20about=20your=20experiences=20with=20these=20devi=
ces.

Do=20you=20use=20the=20touch=20screen=20and=20voice=20over=20all=20the=20ti=
me?=20Do=20you=20
use=20siri=20to=20perform=20functions?=20Can=20siri=20activate=20your=20itu=
nes=20
collection?=20I=20mean=20can=20you=20ask=20siri=20to=20play=20a=20certain=20=
song=20and=20it=20
searches=20for=20it=20and=20plays=20it?

How=20do=20you=20type
regular=20messages=20and=20text=20messages?=20Do=20you=20use=20a=20braille=
=20display=20
with=20it=20and=20if=20so,=20which=20one?=20Can=20you=20type=20in=20braille=
=20and=20
something=20translates=20it=20and=20then=20sends=20it=20out=20on=20your=20i=
-device?
What=20computer=20functions=20do=20these=20devices=20have?=20Does=20it=20ha=
ve=20a=20
word=20processor,=20presentation=20application=20and=20spreadsheet?
I=20know=20the=20Ipad=20has=20pages;=20not=20sure=20about=20the=20others.

I=20know=20the=20Focus=2014=20display=20came=20out=20from=20freedom=20=20sc=
ientific=20
recently=20and=20a=20few=20friends=20have=20that=20paired=20with=20their=20=
i-phones.=20=20
I=20also=20know=20the=20braille=20pen=20can=20be=20paired=20with=20it=20too=


From colorado.students at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:07:52 2013
From: colorado.students at gmail.com (colorado.students at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:07:52 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays and iPhone 4s
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAABqMwRkcUfpPkypmau5bgAQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

There are other Braille Displays that will work with the IPhone, and not
only the Apex.  I know that the Alpha works with it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zachary N.
Griego-Dreicer
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s

Hey Mr. Jeff! Haven't talk to you in a while! I believe you need to have an
apex to connect it to your iPhone. I will try to call you on Skype again
soon.

Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver

On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is 
> their anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a
desplay.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jeff Crouch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.c
> om

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai
l.com



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:16:51 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:16:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAABqMwRkcUfpPkypmau5bgAQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAABqMwRkcUfpPkypmau5bgAQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81083207-D129-476A-95D5-F028FF88D03A@gmail.com>

Hi all. I have  an iPhone 4S and am using a brailliant 32.  It works very well. You can type in contracted braille and everything will be translated correctly.
I hope this helps.
Hope Paulos

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, <colorado.students at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are other Braille Displays that will work with the IPhone, and not
> only the Apex.  I know that the Alpha works with it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zachary N.
> Griego-Dreicer
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
> 
> Hey Mr. Jeff! Haven't talk to you in a while! I believe you need to have an
> apex to connect it to your iPhone. I will try to call you on Skype again
> soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is 
>> their anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a
> desplay.
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> Jeff Crouch
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.c
>> om
> 
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From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:17:48 2013
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:17:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <5105cb5d.43f1440a.7a46.4b63@mx.google.com>
References: <5105cb5d.43f1440a.7a46.4b63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgOGkeUa3_bK9+XnTXYSDbOM7CgMoV7Uh8U3LPr4J_wN_g@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley, you might already be aware of this, but I thought it worth
mentioning that IPod Tuch and Ipod Nano are very different devices. An
IPod Touch, which many people have referred to in this thread, is sort
of like a mini-computer; it runs the same operating system as the
IPhone and IPad and can do things like email, web browsing, and of
course access the app store. The IPod Nano, which I believe is what
you have according to the other message thread you started, is a much
simpler device that primarily functions as a music player; most of the
features that have been discussed here, such as dictation or
note-taking, are not available on the Nano. I'm sorry if this is
redundant information but just want to clarify in case there is any
confusion!

Arielle, in response to your question about entering passwords,
VoiceOver would still call out each letter as I drag my fingers around
in a secure field; when I find the letter I want, I lift my finger and
it will be entered with a click sound. Does VoiceOver remain
completely silent while you try to enter a password on your IPhone? If
so, I wonder if there is a speech setting you can adjust so   that it
will give you feedback as you move your finger around the screen?

Katie


On 1/27/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> First off, I use Siri to send most of my texts and emails.  And
> yes, if you ask Siri to play a song and it's in your collection,
> she will.  For example, if you have a playlist called partymix,
> just say, "Play partymix.  and it will start playing immediately.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:10:51 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>
> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen
> many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and
> staying oriented on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often
> interact with their i-phone and I touch.  I see many messages
> written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen
> keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be
> challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you
> use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes
> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it
> searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display
> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and
> something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a
> word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones.
> I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:36:23 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:36:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays and iPhone 4s
In-Reply-To: <81083207-D129-476A-95D5-F028FF88D03A@gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAGbnxAsWrgJClo4Mc4yL9QhCgQAAEAAAABqMwRkcUfpPkypmau5bgAQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<81083207-D129-476A-95D5-F028FF88D03A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601cdfcf7$e1efe750$a5cfb5f0$@gmail.com>

Actually, most if not all of the popular Braille displays should work with
iOS now.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays and iPhone 4s

Hi all. I have  an iPhone 4S and am using a brailliant 32.  It works very
well. You can type in contracted braille and everything will be translated
correctly.
I hope this helps.
Hope Paulos

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, <colorado.students at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are other Braille Displays that will work with the IPhone, and 
> not only the Apex.  I know that the Alpha works with it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Zachary N.
> Griego-Dreicer
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
> 
> Hey Mr. Jeff! Haven't talk to you in a while! I believe you need to 
> have an apex to connect it to your iPhone. I will try to call you on 
> Skype again soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:26 PM, jeffc4 at lavabit.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, is 
>> their anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a
> desplay.
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> Jeff Crouch
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.
>> c
>> om
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%
> 40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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nabs-l:
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om



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:44:01 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:44:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s
Message-ID: <5105d80b.0c5e650a.1535.5476@mx.google.com>

Kaiti and all, that is a common misconception. When pairing a 
braillenote apex with an iPhone, you do not search for devices. 
Here are the steps of the process.

Braillenote Apex Set-Up:
Press space + O for options menu (function + o on a QT)
 Press C for connectivity.
 Press B for bluetooth.
 • Type Y to answer yes to turn on bluetooth.
 Return to main menu with space + all 6 dots (main menu key on 
the QT)

 Press T for braille terminal mode.
 Press B to change the communication channel from USB to 
bluetooth.

iOS Device Set-Up:

 With VoiceOver turned on and the iOS device running iOS 4 or 
later: Enter the settings menu.
Select general.
 Select accessibility.
 Select Voiceover.
 Select Braille.
The iOS device scans the area for available braille displays and 
will show the Braillenote Apex. Select the Apex. An authorization 
code of 0000 needs to be entered on the iOS device at this point.
You do have a certain amount of time to enter the authorization 
code, but I have done it successfully and independently many 
times.
HTH,
Sophie

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:30:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille desplays and iPhone 4s

Hi,

You can connect a notetaker to the IPhone through a bluetooth
connection.  Search for the devices on both the notetaker and the
IPhone, (settings, bluetooth).  You may need someone to help you 
enter
the code on the IPhone as at least in my experiences it times out
pretty quickly, but that should do it.

On 1/27/13, jeffc4 at lavabit.com <jeffc4 at lavabit.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 Jeff Crouch here, so i have a braille note M-power bt 32 cell, 
is their
 anyway to connect this to my iPhone to use for typing and as a 
desplay.

 thanks

 Jeff Crouch



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarine
t104%40gmail.com



--
Kaiti

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:47:04 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:47:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS213ABBD0D4ED6F527B8A16BCB180@phx.gbl>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>	<9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>
	<BLU405-EAS213ABBD0D4ED6F527B8A16BCB180@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003701cdfcf9$5ff4d6f0$1fde84d0$@gmail.com>

Preston,

	Unfortunately, Siri is not supported by the iTouch 4th generation, and is only available on the new 5th gen. There is a voice control feature on earlier versions of the iTouch, but it's not very accurate even for the most basic commands and I never used it on mine.

	Also, your point about entering the pin to pair your iPod with your BrailleNote is an important one. iOS only gives you about 15 seconds to enter the pairing pin when you are pairing your device with a Braille display, so it is important to get the pin entered quickly and click the pair button so it will work. By the way, to pair your iOS device with your BrailleNote, the code is 0000.

Chriss

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Dear Ashley and all:
I have the Ipod  touch 4 generation.
I got it for Christmas this year, and I love it!
I know how to navigate using the touch screen, but I type using my bluetooth keyboard.
This is much easier for me.
I tried using Serie with my Ipod, but I belive that it's not supported with the IPod touch 4th gen.
I use my keyboard to write e-mails, write facebook messages, and so on.



I tried pairing my Braille note, but I waited to long to enter the code.
I hope you will find this information helpful.
BTW, I also got the Bluetooth keyboard az well.
Sincerely,
Preston Gaylor

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I love pages. as for notes, I use it. But iI also down loaded sticky notes. that way I can write a quick, and delete it when I am finished with it. and voice over does read it. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:52, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a 
>> word processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>>> 
>>> Sophie Trist
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g
>> mail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> il.com
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From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:54:01 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:54:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <003701cdfcf9$5ff4d6f0$1fde84d0$@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>
	<BLU405-EAS213ABBD0D4ED6F527B8A16BCB180@phx.gbl>
	<003701cdfcf9$5ff4d6f0$1fde84d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS20437AE2CD78C65E4E9D74DCB180@phx.gbl>

Chris: That's what I thought about the I touch 4th gen not being able to use serie!
I tried the voice control with the Ipod, but I had some trouble. 
Thanks for this information!
PrestonC

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:48 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Preston,
> 
>    Unfortunately, Siri is not supported by the iTouch 4th generation, and is only available on the new 5th gen. There is a voice control feature on earlier versions of the iTouch, but it's not very accurate even for the most basic commands and I never used it on mine.
> 
>    Also, your point about entering the pin to pair your iPod with your BrailleNote is an important one. iOS only gives you about 15 seconds to enter the pairing pin when you are pairing your device with a Braille display, so it is important to get the pin entered quickly and click the pair button so it will work. By the way, to pair your iOS device with your BrailleNote, the code is 0000.
> 
> Chriss
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Dear Ashley and all:
> I have the Ipod  touch 4 generation.
> I got it for Christmas this year, and I love it!
> I know how to navigate using the touch screen, but I type using my bluetooth keyboard.
> This is much easier for me.
> I tried using Serie with my Ipod, but I belive that it's not supported with the IPod touch 4th gen.
> I use my keyboard to write e-mails, write facebook messages, and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried pairing my Braille note, but I waited to long to enter the code.
> I hope you will find this information helpful.
> BTW, I also got the Bluetooth keyboard az well.
> Sincerely,
> Preston Gaylor
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I love pages. as for notes, I use it. But iI also down loaded sticky notes. that way I can write a quick, and delete it when I am finished with it. and voice over does read it. 
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:52, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a 
>>> word processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>>>> 
>>>> Sophie Trist
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you type
>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 01:58:33 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:58:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] D.C. Seminar
In-Reply-To: <F2F9AE4E-CD3B-4125-A73B-D611726DAD85@me.com>
References: <F2F9AE4E-CD3B-4125-A73B-D611726DAD85@me.com>
Message-ID: <D8BCC52742784FD9AEE39BFBFA025882@OwnerPC>

its holiday inn near the smithsonian station.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kathryn Webster
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] D.C. Seminar

Hey guys! Can anyone know what hotel the dc seminar is at, and if there is a 
train station near?
Kate :)

Sent from my iPhone

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 02:03:56 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:03:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgOGkeUa3_bK9+XnTXYSDbOM7CgMoV7Uh8U3LPr4J_wN_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5105cb5d.43f1440a.7a46.4b63@mx.google.com>
	<CA+6VNgOGkeUa3_bK9+XnTXYSDbOM7CgMoV7Uh8U3LPr4J_wN_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47057E6768D9475AA0678FC5595E7999@OwnerPC>

Hey Katie,
I knew that. but maybe good for others to know who did not see these 
devices.
Yes, I got the ipod because its simpler and serves as a music player and has 
a radio and podcasts playing ability.

I am frustrated with it so I probably should get the hang of it before 
trying the ipod touch wich as you said is more like a mini computer.
I like how the ipod only has six icons on its home menu. it makes it easier 
to find the music button IMO.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Katie Wang
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Ashley, you might already be aware of this, but I thought it worth
mentioning that IPod Tuch and Ipod Nano are very different devices. An
IPod Touch, which many people have referred to in this thread, is sort
of like a mini-computer; it runs the same operating system as the
IPhone and IPad and can do things like email, web browsing, and of
course access the app store. The IPod Nano, which I believe is what
you have according to the other message thread you started, is a much
simpler device that primarily functions as a music player; most of the
features that have been discussed here, such as dictation or
note-taking, are not available on the Nano. I'm sorry if this is
redundant information but just want to clarify in case there is any
confusion!

Arielle, in response to your question about entering passwords,
VoiceOver would still call out each letter as I drag my fingers around
in a secure field; when I find the letter I want, I lift my finger and
it will be entered with a click sound. Does VoiceOver remain
completely silent while you try to enter a password on your IPhone? If
so, I wonder if there is a speech setting you can adjust so   that it
will give you feedback as you move your finger around the screen?

Katie


On 1/27/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> First off, I use Siri to send most of my texts and emails.  And
> yes, if you ask Siri to play a song and it's in your collection,
> she will.  For example, if you have a playlist called partymix,
> just say, "Play partymix.  and it will start playing immediately.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:10:51 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>
> Hi all,
>
> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen
> many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and
> staying oriented on it.
>
> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often
> interact with their i-phone and I touch.  I see many messages
> written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen
> keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be
> challenging to use.
> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>
> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you
> use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes
> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it
> searches for it and plays it?
>
> How do you type
> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display
> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and
> something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a
> word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>
> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones.
> I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too
>

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:30:59 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:30:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS20437AE2CD78C65E4E9D74DCB180@phx.gbl>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>	<9EB8C59F-2665-4FEB-ADCD-8248C467CEA5@gmail.com>	<BLU405-EAS213ABBD0D4ED6F527B8A16BCB180@phx.gbl>	<003701cdfcf9$5ff4d6f0$1fde84d0$@gmail.com>
	<BLU405-EAS20437AE2CD78C65E4E9D74DCB180@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003501cdfcff$8289ee70$879dcb50$@gmail.com>

Yeah, voice control on the 4th gen sucks. :)

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston Gaylor
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Chris: That's what I thought about the I touch 4th gen not being able to use serie!
I tried the voice control with the Ipod, but I had some trouble. 
Thanks for this information!
PrestonC

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:48 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Preston,
> 
>    Unfortunately, Siri is not supported by the iTouch 4th generation, and is only available on the new 5th gen. There is a voice control feature on earlier versions of the iTouch, but it's not very accurate even for the most basic commands and I never used it on mine.
> 
>    Also, your point about entering the pin to pair your iPod with your BrailleNote is an important one. iOS only gives you about 15 seconds to enter the pairing pin when you are pairing your device with a Braille display, so it is important to get the pin entered quickly and click the pair button so it will work. By the way, to pair your iOS device with your BrailleNote, the code is 0000.
> 
> Chriss
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Preston 
> Gaylor
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Dear Ashley and all:
> I have the Ipod  touch 4 generation.
> I got it for Christmas this year, and I love it!
> I know how to navigate using the touch screen, but I type using my bluetooth keyboard.
> This is much easier for me.
> I tried using Serie with my Ipod, but I belive that it's not supported with the IPod touch 4th gen.
> I use my keyboard to write e-mails, write facebook messages, and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried pairing my Braille note, but I waited to long to enter the code.
> I hope you will find this information helpful.
> BTW, I also got the Bluetooth keyboard az well.
> Sincerely,
> Preston Gaylor
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I love pages. as for notes, I use it. But iI also down loaded sticky notes. that way I can write a quick, and delete it when I am finished with it. and voice over does read it. 
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 16:52, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a 
>>> word processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u can get Pages.
>>>> 
>>>> Sophie Trist
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying oriented on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you type
>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader
>>>>> %
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%
>>>> 4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40
>>> g
>>> mail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> a
>> il.com
> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:32:41 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:32:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE:  I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <6E360486-5619-4301-8114-084E8BDD8885@gmail.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E142@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>	<F267897C753D4C76A100A19DA2037995@OwnerPC>
	<6E360486-5619-4301-8114-084E8BDD8885@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601cdfcff$bfa19470$3ee4bd50$@gmail.com>

Kirt,

	It sometimes likes to add words that I didn't say into messages, but overall it works as long as I have a good signal.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Siri was RE: I devices accessibility

Ashley,
That's about half of what Siri does. You can also use it to dictate things you would normally type. I usually do this, for the sake of convenience, even know it sometimes having issues understanding my voice for some reason. See? That, right there, was a case in point. :-) Still, that being said, I think it works better for most people than it does for me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Joshua,
> I only know a little about Siri because my family uses it on their iPhones.
> It’s a feature where you talk to it and it searches for certain items 
> or calls people. You can ask it to search for nearby restaurants and locations; also ask it for sports scores.
> 
> I also asked if it can be used with itunes as a way of asking the device to play your songs in place of using the tapping gestures.
> Apparently, you can ask Siri for specific music too, based on some replies I've seen.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Siri was RE: I devices accessibility
> 
> Hi Alexa.
> Welcome to the list.
> I've heard all kinds of talk about Siri, but I don't know much about it.
> Could you please go into detail about it for those of us that have never heard of it, or don't know much about it?
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Alexa Schwichow 
> [ajschwichow at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Hello,
>   I am an IPhone user. Yes, I can ask Siri to play me a certain song.
> Also, I can dictate messages such as texts and e-mails using Siri. If 
> you want help staying oriented with the keyboard, SpeedDots makes 
> tactile screen protectors for IPhones, IPods, and IPads. I hope this helps!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:10 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>> oriented on it.
>> 
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather 
>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>> 
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? 
>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>> 
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with 
>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>> 
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>> 
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and 
>> Navigan ap?
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>> 
>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ajschwichow%40gma
>> il.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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> hlink.net
> 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:36:33 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:36:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
	<C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003c01cdfd00$49a74a20$dcf5de60$@gmail.com>

LaVonya,

	No, she's using Siri. Siri does dictation, but technically they are two different features.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

my friend has a lot of music on her phone, and she tells the phone what to play, and it does. do u think she is using dictate. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:32, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Chris,
>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>> 
>> Arielle,
>> 
>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
>> certain song or artist.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille 
>>> and have it translated.
>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>>> tried using it for music.
>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair 
>>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in 
>>> VoiceOver and then dragging my finger around the screen until 
>>> VoiceOver says the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri 
>>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>>>> oriented on it.
>>>> 
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is 
>>>> rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes 
>>>> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>> 
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>> 
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>> 
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>> 
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:40:35 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <003c01cdfd00$49a74a20$dcf5de60$@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
	<C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>
	<003c01cdfd00$49a74a20$dcf5de60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B78C6275-EA95-4F84-8655-AEB9FADBE296@gmail.com>

My friends use Siri, they like it. I would have to type my things out. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 21:36, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    No, she's using Siri. Siri does dictation, but technically they are two different features.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> my friend has a lot of music on her phone, and she tells the phone what to play, and it does. do u think she is using dictate. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:32, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris,
>>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
>>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>> 
>>> Arielle,
>>> 
>>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
>>> certain song or artist.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>>>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>>>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille 
>>>> and have it translated.
>>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>>>> tried using it for music.
>>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair 
>>>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in 
>>>> VoiceOver and then dragging my finger around the screen until 
>>>> VoiceOver says the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri 
>>>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>>>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>>>>> oriented on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>>>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>>>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is 
>>>>> rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>>>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes 
>>>>> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you type
>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>>>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear
>>> thlink.net
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm
>> ail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:41:24 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:41:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions
In-Reply-To: <80931B25D685457ABEA409A1DB02CD64@OwnerPC>
References: <80931B25D685457ABEA409A1DB02CD64@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003d01cdfd00$f74d2d70$e5e78850$@gmail.com>

Ashley,

	If the iPod Nano's gestures are anything like the gestures in iOS, which they probably are, you would swipe up the screen with three fingers to go to the next page.

HTH,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions

Hi all,

As I mentioned in the last message, I have an Ipod; it’s the ipod nano.
I got it for Christmas. They activated voice over on for me.

It’s a sleek lightweight thing and I’m amazed that technology can fit thousands of songs, books and data in these thin devices.
I struggle with itunes and  jaws too; it seems to be slow with jaws and I cannot tell where I am  like what folder I’m in, but that is a different story.

Anyway, I am trying to learn voiceover and gestures. I am getting better with double tapping it to execute functions.
I’m thankful though for the buttons on the side though to  make the volume go up and down and the middle button switches songs.

How do you move from screen to screen? I go into the music screen and select either albums or artists depending on what I want to search by.
Then, I’m stuck!
I see the list of albums, but only the first 7 or eight of them? How do you switch screens to see the rest of your albums? I have lots of albums in there so far; someone helped me sinc itunes and the ipod together. I need to scroll through the other screens to see my choices. 
I’m having trouble tapping the next track and previous track button because the volume button is so near it! Perhaps I’m moving my finger to the volume button and don’t even know it.
The smooth screen is definitely challenging. 

Also, can someone explain album art and what it does? Also, has anyone used the fitness feature? I heard it can track your workout somehow.
Is the fastest way to get to specific songs in an album to go to the track listing button while the album is playing?
Also, where do I buy bluetooth earphones? I wasn’t sure if you had to get them from Apple  or not.

Thanks.

Ashley
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:42:26 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:42:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003e01cdfd01$1c39b130$54ad1390$@gmail.com>

Josh is correct. Unfortunately, Siri can't do that.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Chris,
> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Arielle,
> 
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
> certain song or artist.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille 
>> and have it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair 
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver 
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says 
>> the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri 
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>>> oriented on it.
>>> 
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather 
>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>> 
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? 
>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>> 
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>> 
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>> 
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>> 
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
> hlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> .com

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:49:33 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:49:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC><CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <004001cdfd02$1a9f6cb0$4fde4610$@gmail.com>

Ashley,

	Yes, the Notes app would be kind of like WordPad or Notepad. It's
used more for writing simple notes and documents such as notes for class,
but it can't do editing or formatting. You can also email a note you have
made in the Notes app.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

So what is notes and what does it do?
Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like
Microsoft's Word pad?
Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like numbered
lists and I don't think it does bold items either.

-----Original Message-----
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me. 
> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a 
> display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u 
> can get Pages.
>
> Sophie Trist
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I've seen many 
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>> oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather 
>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection? 
>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it 
>> and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with 
>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful? 
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and 
>> Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I'll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>> gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.com

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nabs-l:
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net 


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om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:58:14 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:58:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <B78C6275-EA95-4F84-8655-AEB9FADBE296@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>	<C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>	<003c01cdfd00$49a74a20$dcf5de60$@gmail.com>
	<B78C6275-EA95-4F84-8655-AEB9FADBE296@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004a01cdfd03$51670e50$f4352af0$@gmail.com>

LaVonya,

	I believe the iPad 3, iPad 4 and iPad Mini have Siri.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

My friends use Siri, they like it. I would have to type my things out. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 21:36, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    No, she's using Siri. Siri does dictation, but technically they are two different features.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
> Gardner
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> my friend has a lot of music on her phone, and she tells the phone what to play, and it does. do u think she is using dictate. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:32, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris,
>>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
>>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>> 
>>> Arielle,
>>> 
>>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
>>> certain song or artist.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>>>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>>>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted 
>>>> Braille and have it translated.
>>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>>>> tried using it for music.
>>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to 
>>>> pair with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in 
>>>> VoiceOver and then dragging my finger around the screen until 
>>>> VoiceOver says the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use 
>>>> Siri or my RefreshaBraille.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen 
>>>>> many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and 
>>>>> staying oriented on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often 
>>>>> interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages 
>>>>> written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen 
>>>>> keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you 
>>>>> use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes 
>>>>> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you type
>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and 
>>>>> something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm
>>>>> a
>>>>> il.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
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>>> l.com
>> 
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> 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 03:00:40 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:00:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions
In-Reply-To: <003d01cdfd00$f74d2d70$e5e78850$@gmail.com>
References: <80931B25D685457ABEA409A1DB02CD64@OwnerPC>
	<003d01cdfd00$f74d2d70$e5e78850$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC970F9052BA45FBB2C2B680468C7C4C@OwnerPC>

Chris,
Thanks, I'll try that. I do not know if the Ipod's gestures are the same as 
the other I devices with internet connection.
I was using two fingers. hmm.
We will see if more fingers works. I also tried swiping across the screen 
horizontally which did not work.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:41 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions

Ashley,

If the iPod Nano's gestures are anything like the gestures in iOS, which 
they probably are, you would swipe up the screen with three fingers to go to 
the next page.

HTH,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] ipod gesture questions

Hi all,

As I mentioned in the last message, I have an Ipod; it’s the ipod nano.
I got it for Christmas. They activated voice over on for me.

It’s a sleek lightweight thing and I’m amazed that technology can fit 
thousands of songs, books and data in these thin devices.
I struggle with itunes and  jaws too; it seems to be slow with jaws and I 
cannot tell where I am  like what folder I’m in, but that is a different 
story.

Anyway, I am trying to learn voiceover and gestures. I am getting better 
with double tapping it to execute functions.
I’m thankful though for the buttons on the side though to  make the volume 
go up and down and the middle button switches songs.

How do you move from screen to screen? I go into the music screen and select 
either albums or artists depending on what I want to search by.
Then, I’m stuck!
I see the list of albums, but only the first 7 or eight of them? How do you 
switch screens to see the rest of your albums? I have lots of albums in 
there so far; someone helped me sinc itunes and the ipod together. I need to 
scroll through the other screens to see my choices.
I’m having trouble tapping the next track and previous track button because 
the volume button is so near it! Perhaps I’m moving my finger to the volume 
button and don’t even know it.
The smooth screen is definitely challenging.

Also, can someone explain album art and what it does? Also, has anyone used 
the fitness feature? I heard it can track your workout somehow.
Is the fastest way to get to specific songs in an album to go to the track 
listing button while the album is playing?
Also, where do I buy bluetooth earphones? I wasn’t sure if you had to get 
them from Apple  or not.

Thanks.

Ashley
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 03:03:00 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:03:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <003e01cdfd01$1c39b130$54ad1390$@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC><BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
	<003e01cdfd01$1c39b130$54ad1390$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E93A0E7DF6824CA4A3ACCAF82D869058@OwnerPC>

Chris,
I know you have to download itunes and set it up with songs yourself with 
voiceover or on a pc or mac.
But, I was asking if you can ask siri to play a song in the existing itunes 
library on the device?
Can you also ask her to go to certain artists' albums and then you can read 
those with voiceover?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:42 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Josh is correct. Unfortunately, Siri can't do that.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact 
with iTunes.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Chris,
> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in 
> itunes first?
> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I 
> mean both sighted and blind people.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>
> Arielle,
>
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a
> certain song or artist.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then
>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many
>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille
>> and have it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says
>> the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many
>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>> oriented on it.
>>>
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact
>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from
>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather
>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use
>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it 
>>> and plays it?
>>>
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display
>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something
>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I
>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one
>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around 
>>> Me and Navigan ap?
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>> gmail.com
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 03:04:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:04:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <004001cdfd02$1a9f6cb0$4fde4610$@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC><CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid><B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
	<004001cdfd02$1a9f6cb0$4fde4610$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2F15A78112540A0A58DC7732380044C@OwnerPC>

Chris,
Ah I see. A simple word processor. Can pages do editing and advanced things?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:49 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Ashley,

Yes, the Notes app would be kind of like WordPad or Notepad. It's
used more for writing simple notes and documents such as notes for class,
but it can't do editing or formatting. You can also email a note you have
made in the Notes app.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

So what is notes and what does it do?
Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like
Microsoft's Word pad?
Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like numbered
lists and I don't think it does bold items either.

-----Original Message-----
From: christopher nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me.
> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a
> display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u
> can get Pages.
>
> Sophie Trist
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I've seen many
>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>> oriented on it.
>>
>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact
>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from
>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather
>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>
>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use
>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it
>> and plays it?
>>
>> How do you type
>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with
>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something
>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>
>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I
>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>
>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
>> Navigan ap?
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>
>> I'll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>> gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 03:06:09 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:06:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <004a01cdfd03$51670e50$f4352af0$@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>
	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC>
	<BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>
	<C976B1BE-2482-4B3A-B649-8F7C867E0061@gmail.com>
	<003c01cdfd00$49a74a20$dcf5de60$@gmail.com>
	<B78C6275-EA95-4F84-8655-AEB9FADBE296@gmail.com>
	<004a01cdfd03$51670e50$f4352af0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C14E3786-74CC-43B6-AD3C-10DAB7D4C0D4@gmail.com>

i am about to get an iPad mini. that is cool. i think the iPad mini will let me use VRS, i need that. so if i understand things right, i will b able to get siri  if i need to. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 21:58, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> LaVonya,
> 
>    I believe the iPad 3, iPad 4 and iPad Mini have Siri.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> My friends use Siri, they like it. I would have to type my things out. 
> 
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 21:36, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> LaVonya,
>> 
>>   No, she's using Siri. Siri does dictation, but technically they are two different features.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya 
>> Gardner
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:59 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>> 
>> my friend has a lot of music on her phone, and she tells the phone what to play, and it does. do u think she is using dictate. 
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:32, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Chris,
>>>> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
>>>> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
>>>> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be in itunes first?
>>>> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; I mean both sighted and blind people.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Ashley
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>>> 
>>>> Arielle,
>>>> 
>>>> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
>>>> certain song or artist.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>>>>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>>>>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>>>>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted 
>>>>> Braille and have it translated.
>>>>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>>>>> tried using it for music.
>>>>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to 
>>>>> pair with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>>>>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in 
>>>>> VoiceOver and then dragging my finger around the screen until 
>>>>> VoiceOver says the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>>>>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use 
>>>>> Siri or my RefreshaBraille.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen 
>>>>>> many messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and 
>>>>>> staying oriented on it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often 
>>>>>> interact with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages 
>>>>>> written from these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen 
>>>>>> keyboard is rather small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you 
>>>>>> use siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes 
>>>>>> collection? I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it and plays it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How do you type
>>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>>>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and 
>>>>>> something translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>>>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> 4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>> 
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>> 
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 03:07:38 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:07:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <D2F15A78112540A0A58DC7732380044C@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
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	<D2F15A78112540A0A58DC7732380044C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <4C01E4B2-8734-4074-B315-4421B1B13920@gmail.com>

pages not only can do that, but can also give u formatts to do whatever u might have to write. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 27, 2013, at 22:04, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Chris,
> Ah I see. A simple word processor. Can pages do editing and advanced things?
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:49 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Ashley,
> 
> Yes, the Notes app would be kind of like WordPad or Notepad. It's
> used more for writing simple notes and documents such as notes for class,
> but it can't do editing or formatting. You can also email a note you have
> made in the Notes app.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> So what is notes and what does it do?
> Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
> can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like
> Microsoft's Word pad?
> Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like numbered
> lists and I don't think it does bold items either.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
> 
> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
> processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me.
>> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a
>> display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u
>> can get Pages.
>> 
>> Sophie Trist
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I've seen many
>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>> oriented on it.
>>> 
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact
>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from
>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather
>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>> 
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use
>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it
>>> and plays it?
>>> 
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with
>>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something
>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>> 
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I
>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>> 
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
>>> Navigan ap?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>> 
>>> I'll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>> gmail.com
>> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 07:42:51 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:42:51 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <4C01E4B2-8734-4074-B315-4421B1B13920@gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
	<004001cdfd02$1a9f6cb0$4fde4610$@gmail.com>
	<D2F15A78112540A0A58DC7732380044C@OwnerPC>
	<4C01E4B2-8734-4074-B315-4421B1B13920@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo351RYO7qZAi96EieD=A2OwdRXEcG4fdQke8uTD3e34rqimA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all
Very interesting thread this. Here are my opinions on Apple stuff. I
know some of what I'm going to write might not be the most popular or
best ways, but it is just what I've found most comfortable, and I'd
please like to know your opinions, whether I'm just this odd person
with these ideas or whether some people agree with me on some of
these. Many of my points might not be too correct, as I'm basically
trying to learn my IPhone in bits and pieces when I'm not studying,
and, since I don't really have much expert sighted tech help available
I'm trying to work much out myself.
For the first few days the touch screen did take a bit of time getting
used to, but I actually enjoy using it and I think its a great way to
use products. Don't worry Ashley, you'll find that the longer you use
it, the more you'lll start using your memory to have an approximate
idea where things are on the screen so you'll be using it much faster
later on.
It's interesting that as far as I can see most blind people prefer the
other typing method. Am I the only one who actually rather loves using
the default?
For music, if I had to use an apple product I'd use the IPod shuffle,
but to be honest I rather carry around a stand-alone mp3 player that
doesn't use touch screen and you can just copy music to. The other
reason is I actually really hate ITunes, and I know this is just me. I
know there are jaws scripts available, but I just get so frustrated
and can't stand Itunes. I've often wondered why, and I've thought of
some reasons:
1. My laptop is not such a new model, about 4 years old, maybe ITunes
is just slow and frustrating to work with on it?
2. Here in South Africa, up until a few months ago we could actually
not purchase music from the store, only apps, and because I always
used media player and other players to manage music I just prefer to
do that and can't bring myself to use ITunes, because I do think that
it is easier with jaws to manage your music with windows media player
instead?
 Another thing I'd like to know what you guys think of, is that for me
it looks as if it is easier and faster to use your notetaker's
calendar and diary instead of the IPhone, I prefer using the one on my
laptop. Before I got my IPhone, I used a Nokia with a keyboard, and I
just find that there are things I could do on it much faster than I
can with the IPhone, such as entering contacts, finding contacts and
again the calendar.
I am very interested to know more about the accessibility of Pages, as
I am looking for a word processor to use on the IPhone. I never bought
pages because I once read somewhere a blind person saying that it was
usable, but also not really. He said VO didn't work well especially
when you were trying to use longer documents and that you also
couldn't format text, and if you wanted to manage files, it was
possible but it took so long that it wasn't worth it?
Ari
On 1/28/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
> pages not only can do that, but can also give u formatts to do whatever u
> might have to write.
>
> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 22:04, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>> Ah I see. A simple word processor. Can pages do editing and advanced
>> things?
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:49 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> Yes, the Notes app would be kind of like WordPad or Notepad. It's
>> used more for writing simple notes and documents such as notes for class,
>> but it can't do editing or formatting. You can also email a note you have
>> made in the Notes app.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:06 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>
>> So what is notes and what does it do?
>> Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
>> can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like
>> Microsoft's Word pad?
>> Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like
>> numbered
>> lists and I don't think it does bold items either.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christopher nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>
>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
>> processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me.
>>> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a
>>> display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u
>>> can get Pages.
>>>
>>> Sophie Trist
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I've seen many
>>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>>> oriented on it.
>>>>
>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact
>>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from
>>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather
>>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>
>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use
>>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it
>>>> and plays it?
>>>>
>>>> How do you type
>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with
>>>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something
>>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>
>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I
>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
>>>> Navigan ap?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>
>>>> I'll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 15:10:32 2013
From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:10:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351RYO7qZAi96EieD=A2OwdRXEcG4fdQke8uTD3e34rqimA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>
	<CCDED5A7-5641-4D99-B961-64313003F98E@gmail.com>
	<-1413231861460716906@unknownmsgid>
	<B25DF9E592BE404AB6EDD43F2DA3A707@OwnerPC>
	<004001cdfd02$1a9f6cb0$4fde4610$@gmail.com>
	<D2F15A78112540A0A58DC7732380044C@OwnerPC>
	<4C01E4B2-8734-4074-B315-4421B1B13920@gmail.com>
	<CAOo351RYO7qZAi96EieD=A2OwdRXEcG4fdQke8uTD3e34rqimA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A181DE6F-AC58-47A8-BB2D-5A114D2F70A1@gmail.com>

I use the touch screen, and my friend does too. unless we have to text a lot, or I have to do email, or use the comunication app. Witch by the way, is voice over friendly. 

NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE 

On Jan 28, 2013, at 2:42, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
> Very interesting thread this. Here are my opinions on Apple stuff. I
> know some of what I'm going to write might not be the most popular or
> best ways, but it is just what I've found most comfortable, and I'd
> please like to know your opinions, whether I'm just this odd person
> with these ideas or whether some people agree with me on some of
> these. Many of my points might not be too correct, as I'm basically
> trying to learn my IPhone in bits and pieces when I'm not studying,
> and, since I don't really have much expert sighted tech help available
> I'm trying to work much out myself.
> For the first few days the touch screen did take a bit of time getting
> used to, but I actually enjoy using it and I think its a great way to
> use products. Don't worry Ashley, you'll find that the longer you use
> it, the more you'lll start using your memory to have an approximate
> idea where things are on the screen so you'll be using it much faster
> later on.
> It's interesting that as far as I can see most blind people prefer the
> other typing method. Am I the only one who actually rather loves using
> the default?
> For music, if I had to use an apple product I'd use the IPod shuffle,
> but to be honest I rather carry around a stand-alone mp3 player that
> doesn't use touch screen and you can just copy music to. The other
> reason is I actually really hate ITunes, and I know this is just me. I
> know there are jaws scripts available, but I just get so frustrated
> and can't stand Itunes. I've often wondered why, and I've thought of
> some reasons:
> 1. My laptop is not such a new model, about 4 years old, maybe ITunes
> is just slow and frustrating to work with on it?
> 2. Here in South Africa, up until a few months ago we could actually
> not purchase music from the store, only apps, and because I always
> used media player and other players to manage music I just prefer to
> do that and can't bring myself to use ITunes, because I do think that
> it is easier with jaws to manage your music with windows media player
> instead?
> Another thing I'd like to know what you guys think of, is that for me
> it looks as if it is easier and faster to use your notetaker's
> calendar and diary instead of the IPhone, I prefer using the one on my
> laptop. Before I got my IPhone, I used a Nokia with a keyboard, and I
> just find that there are things I could do on it much faster than I
> can with the IPhone, such as entering contacts, finding contacts and
> again the calendar.
> I am very interested to know more about the accessibility of Pages, as
> I am looking for a word processor to use on the IPhone. I never bought
> pages because I once read somewhere a blind person saying that it was
> usable, but also not really. He said VO didn't work well especially
> when you were trying to use longer documents and that you also
> couldn't format text, and if you wanted to manage files, it was
> possible but it took so long that it wasn't worth it?
> Ari
> On 1/28/13, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> pages not only can do that, but can also give u formatts to do whatever u
>> might have to write.
>> 
>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 22:04, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris,
>>> Ah I see. A simple word processor. Can pages do editing and advanced
>>> things?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:49 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>> 
>>> Ashley,
>>> 
>>> Yes, the Notes app would be kind of like WordPad or Notepad. It's
>>> used more for writing simple notes and documents such as notes for class,
>>> but it can't do editing or formatting. You can also email a note you have
>>> made in the Notes app.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>>> Bramlett
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:06 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>> 
>>> So what is notes and what does it do?
>>> Chris, Maybe you  mean  that it
>>> can do simple writing and editing but not advanced stuff? Kind of like
>>> Microsoft's Word pad?
>>> Word pad can do some writing features but not advanced things like
>>> numbered
>>> lists and I don't think it does bold items either.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: christopher nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:52 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>>> 
>>> Well, the iPhone has notes built into it, but that's not really a word
>>> processor, as it doesn't allow you to do any advanced editing.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ii use the touchscreen mostly. Siri has a hard time understanding me.
>>>> Sometimes I connect my phone with my braillenote. It works as a
>>>> display and a keyboard. The iPhone has no wordprocessor built in but u
>>>> can get Pages.
>>>> 
>>>> Sophie Trist
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I've seen many
>>>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying
>>>>> oriented on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact
>>>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from
>>>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather
>>>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use
>>>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>>>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for it
>>>>> and plays it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do you type
>>>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display with
>>>>> it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something
>>>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word
>>>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific
>>>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I
>>>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one useful?
>>>>> What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look around Me and
>>>>> Navigan ap?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>>>> mail.com
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>>> net
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 16:35:01 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
In-Reply-To: <E93A0E7DF6824CA4A3ACCAF82D869058@OwnerPC>
References: <2A48D83619AD41B397623E8286DF3789@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCD-4eQB=jnxpcozBtyVGm5RF2VdWrfGTcNhAJZ9FoJLw@mail.gmail.com>	<3633880268328847330@unknownmsgid>	<ABCD7F1BAB1E48F7A8D4070C4DE7F1A9@OwnerPC><BBA1B3CF-492D-41FA-977E-67758CD9F6EE@gmail.com>	<003e01cdfd01$1c39b130$54ad1390$@gmail.com>
	<E93A0E7DF6824CA4A3ACCAF82D869058@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003b01cdfd75$6b8917c0$429b4740$@gmail.com>

Ashley,

	Yes, you can. If you want to play a song or songs from a certain artist in your existing music library on your iOS device, you can ask Siri to play that song or that artist.

Chriss

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Chris,
I know you have to download itunes and set it up with songs yourself with voiceover or on a pc or mac.
But, I was asking if you can ask siri to play a song in the existing itunes library on the device?
Can you also ask her to go to certain artists' albums and then you can read those with voiceover?

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:42 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

Josh is correct. Unfortunately, Siri can't do that.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility

I am not Chris, but no,  music must be on your phone. Siri cannot interact with iTunes.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Chris,
> I wanted to know if Siri can interact with itunes?
> So, to clarify, are you saying it can pull up a specific song for you?
> Can you ask it to launch itunes and play a song or do you have to be 
> in itunes first?
> I'm impressed you can do so much with Siri. Everyone says its useful; 
> I mean both sighted and blind people.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I devices accessibility
>
> Arielle,
>
> All you have to do to use Siri for music is to tell it to play a 
> certain song or artist.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ashley,
>> Most modern Braille devices including Braille Notes and Braille 
>> displays can pair with I-devices without much effort. You can then 
>> use the Braille device as both keyboard and Braille display in many 
>> cases, and typemessages in either contracted or uncontracted Braille 
>> and have it translated.
>> You can also use Siri to type texts and emails although I've never 
>> tried using it for music.
>> Many Apple users, blind and sighted, choose to buy keyboards to pair 
>> with their I-devices if they don't already have a Braille device.
>> I can type on my touch screen by activating touch typing in VoiceOver 
>> and then dragging my finger around the screen until VoiceOver says 
>> the letter I want. To enter the letter I lift my finger off the screen.
>> However, though I can do this I find  it slow and prefer to use Siri 
>> or my RefreshaBraille.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Many of you have I devices you communicate with now; I’ve seen many 
>>> messages sent from i-phones, ipod touches and a few ipads.
>>> I have an ipod  and am struggling with the touch screen and staying 
>>> oriented on it.
>>>
>>> My family and I were wondering how blind people most often interact 
>>> with their i-phone and I touch. I see many messages written from 
>>> these mobile devices, yet I know the touch screen keyboard is rather 
>>> small and even for sighted people it can be challenging to use.
>>> So I was wondering about your experiences with these devices.
>>>
>>> Do you use the touch screen and voice over all the time? Do you use 
>>> siri to perform functions? Can siri activate your itunes collection?
>>> I mean can you ask siri to play a certain song and it searches for 
>>> it and plays it?
>>>
>>> How do you type
>>> regular messages and text messages? Do you use a braille display 
>>> with it and if so, which one? Can you type in braille and something 
>>> translates it and then sends it out on your i-device?
>>> What computer functions do these devices have? Does it have a word 
>>> processor, presentation application and spreadsheet?
>>> I know the Ipad has pages; not sure about the others.
>>>
>>> I know the Focus 14 display came out from freedom  scientific 
>>> recently and a few friends have that paired with their i-phones. I 
>>> also know the braille pen can be paired with it too.
>>>
>>> Finally, which aps are most helpful? Is the barcode reader one 
>>> useful? What does i t cost? What is the difference between Look 
>>> around Me and Navigan ap?
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me know.
>>>
>>> I’ll write my ipod gesture questions next message.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40
>> gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
> hlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> .com

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From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 18:39:49 2013
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:39:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] D.C. Seminar
Message-ID: <00be01cdfd86$db3c0080$91b40180$@gmail.com>

Hi Kathryn,

 

The meeting will be from 9:00 to 1:00 on Monday February 4, with
registration opening at 8:00am. The hotel is the Holiday Inn Capitol,
located at 550 C St SW in Washington DC. If you are coming in from out of
town, Union Station is relatively close by. It would be a roughly $8 cab
ride from Union Station to the hotel. You can also take the metro (the DC
subway system) to the L'Enfant station, which is about a block and a half
from the hotel. That station is served by the orange, blue, yellow and green
lines. Unfortunately, Union Station, where any Amtrak trains will come in,
is served by only the red line, so you would have to make a transfer and go
a bit out of your way. If you have any transportation questions, please feel
free to be in touch with me at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147.

 

Thanks, and hope to see you at the seminar next Monday!

 

Take care,

 

Sean


From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com  Mon Jan 28 20:14:47 2013
From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:14:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Learn About Technology Classes Blind People Can Take
 Online Through Teamtalk And More On Tonight's Djd Invasion
Message-ID: <874678a574c37a0aec51e306b93cfd5b.squirrel@webmail.audioaccessfm.com>

Hi Everyone!
The last Djd Invasion of January 2013 airs tonight startting at our usual
time of 8 PM eastern, and this program is going to keep you very busy and
entertained for 180 minutes. Here's why.

Meet an up and coming musician whose a freshman from Marist College,
Julianna Salguero. Hear about her music, her influences, her thoughts
about the future and more. This interview and presentation will begin at
8:30PM eastern, during Hour1 of the show


We'll talk with Kerry Hoath abut Cisco Vision. What is it? What purpose
does it serve and more?

Sprinkle in our usual variety of songs and your requests, and these three
hours will keep you busy.

During the show, you can contact me by email at
daviddunphy at audioaccess.fm
Via skype at
audio.accessfm
Via twitter at either
djdrocks
or
audioaccessfm
Or via telephone by calling
516 324 2314

To listen in to the show, you can either
http://listen.audioaccess.fm/?bgcolour=royalblue

Or listen in by phone by calling
1-213-992-4393

Normal long distance charges apply.

Hope to see you all there for a busy three hours, but what should be an
awesome show!!!



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 01:22:50 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
Message-ID: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>

Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone

From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 01:26:23 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:26:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>
References: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A41BB4E-9BCC-4BB2-8442-88F5FC77B4E8@gmail.com>

I agree. Excellent job. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:22 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 04:04:06 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:04:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
Message-ID: <51074a60.0cd7640a.5c2e.1d19@mx.google.com>

Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud 
to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the 
Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together 
in an excellent way.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.

Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that 
appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You 
represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to 
say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 04:22:29 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <51074a60.0cd7640a.5c2e.1d19@mx.google.com>
References: <51074a60.0cd7640a.5c2e.1d19@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2D0CAF76-4FE9-4441-B825-8303ACF7966A@gmail.com>

Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to hear a voice and put it with a name!
Hope

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together in an excellent way.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
> 
> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 04:41:21 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:41:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <2D0CAF76-4FE9-4441-B825-8303ACF7966A@gmail.com>
References: <51074a60.0cd7640a.5c2e.1d19@mx.google.com>
	<2D0CAF76-4FE9-4441-B825-8303ACF7966A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12428A52-A610-4449-B42B-7A5C4A0DECD7@gmail.com>

I'll agree with that, Hope. And Sophie, you did it wonderfully.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:22 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to hear a voice and put it with a name!
> Hope
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together in an excellent way.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>> 
>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 12:47:47 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:47:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
Message-ID: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>

I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to 
find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac. 
We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured 
together LOL.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed 
an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know 
what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to 
hear a voice and put it with a name!
Hope

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist 
<sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

 Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud 
to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the 
Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together 
in an excellent way.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.

 Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that 
appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You 
represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to 
say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.

 Sent from my iPhone
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
 r%40gmail.com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
0gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com



From troubleclark at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 13:47:11 2013
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:47:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Sophie and Chris,
You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
the show.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
> together LOL.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>
> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
> hear a voice and put it with a name!
> Hope
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
> in an excellent way.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>
>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>  r%40gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
> 0gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 15:02:01 2013
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:02:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Sophie and Chris,
I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
yourselves.
Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sophie and Chris,
> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
> the show.
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>> together LOL.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>
>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>> Hope
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>> in an excellent way.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>
>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>  r%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>
>


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 18:20:53 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:20:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations Braille Challenge Participants
Message-ID: <5108133f.132a650a.1606.16f0@mx.google.com>

Dear Nabs Members,

I would like to say congratulations to all those who are 
participating in the Braille Challenge competitions across the 
United States.  I participated in these competitions during my 
high school career.  I enjoyed being able to participate in this 
event.


From kathrynwebster at me.com  Tue Jan 29 21:02:32 2013
From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:02:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] D.C. Seminar
In-Reply-To: <00be01cdfd86$db3c0080$91b40180$@gmail.com>
References: <00be01cdfd86$db3c0080$91b40180$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C325572-2384-4944-9497-D3463A5CEE66@me.com>

Good afternoon, Sean. Thank you so much for all of this information! So sorry for replying late, but I did figure out my plans as of today, with your helpful hints of course. I am hopefully taking the train very early Monday morning, and returning to Greenwich, CT on Monday night. I unfortunately cannot miss too much school, as the second semester is just beginning. I have a rather late question to ask. Previously, my mom and I were going to drive up together, but plans changed due to circumstances. Now, I am hopefully taking the train solo, to and from, and was curious as to whether or not there is a way to get reinburced by the NFB. I know Beth Rival told me that many individuals were taking advantage of such benefit, but is it still possible? Thank you so much for everything, and I look forward to speaking with you soon!

Kathryn Cornell Webster
On Jan 28, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Sean Whalen wrote:

> Hi Kathryn,
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting will be from 9:00 to 1:00 on Monday February 4, with
> registration opening at 8:00am. The hotel is the Holiday Inn Capitol,
> located at 550 C St SW in Washington DC. If you are coming in from out of
> town, Union Station is relatively close by. It would be a roughly $8 cab
> ride from Union Station to the hotel. You can also take the metro (the DC
> subway system) to the L'Enfant station, which is about a block and a half
> from the hotel. That station is served by the orange, blue, yellow and green
> lines. Unfortunately, Union Station, where any Amtrak trains will come in,
> is served by only the red line, so you would have to make a transfer and go
> a bit out of your way. If you have any transportation questions, please feel
> free to be in touch with me at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, and hope to see you at the seminar next Monday!
> 
> 
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> 
> Sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com



From Vyingling at nfb.org  Tue Jan 29 20:30:46 2013
From: Vyingling at nfb.org (Yingling, Valerie)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:30:46 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Students needed to help test Courseload's new e-textbook
	application
Message-ID: <2E77F7FE85FE99418761668AE1AA779E11896DD2@SN2PRD0710MB382.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

The NFB is recruiting volunteers from the following schools to test Courseload's new e-textbook application for accessibility features:

  *   Indiana University
  *   University of Virginia
  *   Penn State University
  *   Ball State University
  *   University of California, Berkeley
Please consider helping with this important project.  If you are interested in being a tester or have additional questions, contact me at Vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:Vyingling at nfb.org>.

Thanks,
Valerie

Valerie Yingling
Paralegal
National Federation of the Blind
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: 410-659-9314 ext. 2440
Fax: 410-659-5129
E-mail: Vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:Vyingling at nfb.org>
Web site: www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 00:36:36 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:36:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
I don't have cable.
Arielle

On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sophie and Chris,
> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
> yourselves.
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
>
> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>> the show.
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>> together LOL.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>
>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>> Hope
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>> in an excellent way.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>
>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>
>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 30 00:54:34 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:54:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
Message-ID: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>

Hello all,
I consider myself to be outgoing and approachable; I participate in class discussions fairly well since its organized and the professor calls on students to talk. Sometimes, I even get compliments on my contributions.

But a big challenge I’ve encountered is group projects. I mean those projects where class chats amongst themselves and forms groups. 
I have a group project for family sociology where we have to create a tv show skit to illustrate sociological concepts. I’m also concerened about accessing comments students use on blackboard since we are linked as group members. I am not sure that is accessible. At one point it was not.
I also am not always keen on group projects due to communication issues and other classmates waiting to the last minute to do the work or failing to do their part.
But those issues aren’t blindness specific but it sure magnifies the problem.
I’m going to get into a group Thursday. I asked the professor if she could help me find a group and she will Thursday during class. She said absent students did not have a group yet either. 
So, any tips on interacting with group members or finding groups would be good. I also struggle with this sometimes during general class group discussions. Often I speak up to people around me and join their group. But sometimes, they have enough people already and I have to find another group.
Anyway thought I’d share this issue. I recall feeling left out in high school and its sad to me this reappears in college.
Ashley

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 02:16:49 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:16:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>

Arielle,
I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.

On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
> I don't have cable.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>> yourselves.
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>> the show.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>> together LOL.
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>
>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>> Hope
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>
>>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 02:21:47 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:21:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-2959742007557277143@unknownmsgid>

It has been posted! Check out www.nicknews.com. You will find it under videos.

Thank you so much for all the compliments which have been written in
this thread! I'm glad so many of you watched, and I hope that through
this episode we will continue changing what it means to be blind!
Thank you again for watching and for all your kind words!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Arielle,
> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>
> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>> I don't have cable.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>> yourselves.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>> the show.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>> Hope
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 02:52:07 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:52:07 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>

Got it.

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html

Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the
name of that app is.

Cindy

On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle,
> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>
> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>> I don't have cable.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>> yourselves.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>> the show.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>> Hope
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From nabs at nabslink.org  Wed Jan 30 02:51:42 2013
From: nabs at nabslink.org (National Association of Blind Students)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:51:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] The Student Slate, Winter 2013
Message-ID: <E1U0Nm2-0003H3-3M@host.nfbnet.org>

(Please visit http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=16&qid=1706 to read this issue in your browser, or download a Microsoft Word copy)

THE STUDENT SLATE
Winter 2013

Edited by Karen Anderson, Cindy Bennett, Candice Chapman and Sean Whalen

Published by  
The National Association of Blind Students  
Sean Whalen, President

##Contents
* Editor's Introduction
* Experiencing Washington Seminar by Tony Olivero
* Washington Seminar 2013
* Running for Congress by Parnell diggs
* For the Blind, Kindle good for Nothing but Kindling by cindy Bennett and Natalie Shaheen
* Mentoring Toward the Future: Spotlight on the Illinois Association of Blind Students  by Rose Sloan
* Self-Advocacy in Spain: Curiosity, Confidence, and Commitment by Chelsey Duranleau

EDITOR'S NOTE: The beginning of each article is indicated by two hash marks followed by a space (## ). You can use this to search.

## Editor's Introduction

Now that we're crawling out of our candy comas, sadly reacquainting ourselves with those loud boxes that rudely wake us up in the morning, and remembering to date everything 2012, I mean, 2013, we bring you some much needed warmth. So as you sit by the fake candles in your dorm room, be filled with the smooth, meandering words of fellow blind students and NFB members that are almost as sweet as hot coco...almost.

Before the flames engulf your attention, we have a few announcements for you. As many of you know, the 2013 Washington Seminar is fast approaching. It will be held at the Holiday Inn Capitol hotel in Washington D.C. Monday, February 4 through Thursday, February 7. Reservations should have been made through your state affiliate by now, and information about the seminar itself and the issues that we are supporting can be found later in this newsletter. But we want to highlight the NABS events. NABS will hold its annual winter meeting Monday, February 4 from 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M. please preregister online! It takes 30 seconds, and it will allow you more time to decide between a venti caramel macchiato and a short chai with soy before the
meeting. Visit <http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=14&qid=1706> to register. Registration the morning of the meeting will open at 8:00 A.M. We will have tons of great speakers, breakout sessions, a chance for you to meet with your regional rep and with students from your neck of the woods, and everyone's favorite, door prizes! Don't worry, the Slate committee won't be too offended if you put this down to register right now so you won't forget.

After the meeting, run to Quiznos, but don't be too long, because from 2:30 until 4:00, you'll have the chance to meet with representatives from a variety of student-related companies and training centers at our resource fair.

The NABS events will culminate in our famous NABS Cafe Monday night from 8:00 until midnight. Buy your ticket ahead of time from a NABS board member for $5 or, for all of the procrastinators, at the door for $7. You'll be getting a great deal, because many of the NFB's finest musical entertainers will perform live. Last year, our NABS president even graced us with his sultry voice, and some rumors have circulated about him singing again this year. At the door, you'll have the opportunity to vote for who you want to see pied at the end of the night with your extra bills. It will be a hard choice between NABS president Sean Whalen, Executive Director of The Jernigan Institute Mark Riccobono, former president of the Georgia affiliate of the
NFB Anil Lewis, and former Imagination Fund Chair, Executive Director of the National Association of Blind Merchants and member of our Colorado affiliate Kevan Worley. Vote for as many of them as often as you like! There will be a cash bar for your convenience and an amazing auction. Bring your credit cards, forget about your student loans and bid on great items like cosmetics, chocolates, and wine to support the best division for blind students in America! This event is not just for students, so make sure everyone going to Washington Seminar from your affiliate knows!

Now, back to the proverbial fire that accompanies you while you read the articles. Slate committee member Cindy Bennett and education expert Natalie Shaheen will explain to you what the NFB thinks about the fact that you can't read this newsletter on a Kindle. Not to worry though, Chelsey Duranleau's inspiring piece about her study abroad experience will stir the coals and send flames flying. Tony Olivero tells us why he keeps going to Washington Seminar, and the Slate team makes sure you know what to talk about during your short 15 minutes of fame with your congressmen next week. If you can't make Washington Seminar, read on anyway so you can advocate on the home front, which is just as important. But before your trek up the Hill, learn a
thing or two from Parnell Diggs's congressional campaign highlights. Finally, incorporate some new tips for your student division after reading Rose Sloan's update on how Illinois keeps the motivational molecules moving during the Midwest winter that we all shiver from just hearing stories about.

And when you're done, if you haven't already, click that link and register for our winter meeting!

## Experiencing Washington Seminar
*by Tony Olivero*

*From the Editor:* Tony Olivero has been a member of the NFB since 2001. He has worn several hats during his time with the organization, including Chapter president, affiliate board member, IBTC Technology Analyst, and Legislative Coordinator for the Nebraska Affiliate. Here is Tony's recollection of his first Washington Seminar experience and his thoughts on why attending matters:

In February 2002, I was given the opportunity by two of my Federation mentors, Larry and Kathy Sebrenek, to attend the Washington Seminar. Having been a member of the Federation for slightly less than a year at that point, I wasn't really sure what to expect. I had actually been to Washington, D.C. as part of a civic educational program for high school students the year before, and had the opportunity to meet with my Congressman as part of that program. However, that experience was nothing compared to the power that is our annual Washington Seminar.

As in Philadelphia the summer before, stepping into the hotel was almost an overwhelming experience. For the second time, I was surrounded by other people who shared two things in common with me: blindness, and the desire to make a difference for others. The palpable energy in the Great Gathering In as Dr. Maurer, and the NFB Governmental Affairs staff briefed us on that year's Legislative Agenda for Blind Americans, launched us all into an excited frenzy, eager and anxious to take Capitol Hill by storm over the next two days. I think it hit me that night, as I read through the fact sheets, the thought that approximately five hundred of my Federation family were going to be talking to Senators and Congressmen, trying to educate them on what
mattered to us, and hopefully getting them to sign on to our legislation. It seemed an impossible task, and I wondered at least once why I (a college freshman) was there. No one else (at least in the venerable, veteran Wisconsin delegation I was with) seemed daunted in the least. I took strength in that, and decided I'd eventually figure out what I was doing.

We had all of our meetings the following day. It was quite an experience to sit in the offices of men and women who had the ability to change the course of our country with their words and actions, especially when you're told “Okay, it's your turn. You take the next issue.” Sometimes we met with staffers; occasionally we met with the member of Congress themselves. In all cases, they wanted to hear what we had to say. They might not always have agreed, but just being there and having the opportunity to demonstrate to them that blind people were engaged and had a desire to be civically involved was a powerful feeling.

I still go to Washington Seminar every chance I get, and I still experience the same enthusiasm for what we do. Our legislative agenda has changed over the past 11 years: we have secured funding to help develop the first portable reading machine for the blind, we have helped create the National Instructional Materials Center providing textbooks to K-12 students, and we have ensured that silent cars will soon pose no threat to blind pedestrians. This year, we will ensure access to higher education materials and systems, remove the unfair labor practices allowing blind workers to be paid subminimum wages, and gain the right of disabled military veterans to access services their nonmedically retired colleagues have access to. The NFB
Washington Seminar is our chance to make a huge impact on issues affecting the blind of America. Our National Convention is an inspiring and spirit-building event, but Washington Seminar is where work gets done. If you want to make a difference, if you want to change what it means to be blind, if you want to make sure that we are treated equally and have access to the same programs and systems as our sighted peers, Washington Seminar is for you! Yes, there is the annual Winter Student meeting, and many other social gathering opportunities, but nothing will give you a stronger sense of accomplishment than hearing the words, “yes, I will cosponsor your bill” after a meeting you just had with your legislator. I strongly encourage you all
to find the opportunity to attend the Seminar. You won't regret it.


## Washington Seminar 2013

*From the Editor:* It is once again time for the National Federation of the Blind to carry our message of equality and opportunity to Capitol Hill. Our annual Washington Seminar is not only a great opportunity for blind students to help to educate our legislators on issues of importance to the blind, but also an excellent opportunity to learn about our government, se how grass roots advocacy can influence public policy, and take in all that Washington DC has to offer.

This year's festivities will kick off with the annual NABS winter meeting on Monday February 4, 2013, and at 5:00pm, that evening the Great Gathering In will launch the week's legislative efforts. The various state affiliates of the NFB will be heading to the Hill to meet with Members of Congress and their staffers on Tuesday through Thursday, February 5 to 7 to raise awareness and call for legislative action on three issues. The following is a brief summary of each issue about which we will be educating our legislators:

###Increase Access to Education

The first issue on this year's agenda is one we students can play a pivotal role in promoting. We are endeavoring to pass a bill called the Technology, Education and Accessibility in College and Higher Education (TEACH) Act. This bill would direct the Access Board, a small federal entity, to consult steakholders and agree upon a set of access standards for electronic textbooks, e-readers, course management software, and other technology used in higher education. The digitization of education and content can be an extremely positive development for blind students, but only of the makers of technology build accessibility into their products. The ADA, as well as section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, require schools to make education
accessible to all students, and this bill will allow the Department of Justice to promulgate guidelines instructing educational institutions on how to meet their legal obligations to procure technologies that are usable by all of their students. As blind students, we all have stories of inaccessible technologies acting as barriers to our education. It is vital that we share our stories with Congress and educate them about the crucial nature of equal access to education for all!

###Repeal the Fair Labor Standards Act

The second issue will be familiar to many of you; we pushed for the same bill last year. We are attempting to introduce and pass a bill that would make it illegal to pay subminimum wages to blind or otherwise disabled employees. As the law stands, a decades-old provision 14(c) of the Fair labor Standards Act, allows certain employers to obtain certifications to pay people with disabilities at less than the federal minimum wage. It is unfair and must be repealed. Our bill will discontinue the practice of issuing special wage certificates immediately, and will phase out current certificates over three years and protect blind Americans by making clear that we deserve the federal minimum wage and equal protection under the law.

###Allow Disabled Veterans the Same Privileges as their Retired Peers

The final issue relates to the Space Available program, which allows active and retired military to travel for free on military aircraft when there is space available. Because of an inadvertent oversight, disabled veterans who are discharged from service are not eligible for this program. H.R. 164 would expand the program to include veterans who are blinded or otherwise disabled in the service of our country.

To learn more about all of the 2013 legislative initiatives, you can go to <http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=10&qid=1706> to check out the fact sheets prepared by the NFB governmental affairs team. The issues will also be discussed in detail at the Great Gathering In meeting, being held at 5:00 in the Columbia Room on Monday, February 4.

We look forward to seeing a strong contingent of students in Washington DC to help change what it means to be blind in the United States. Together we can educate Congress, influence public policy, and make meaningful changes in the lives of blind individuals across the country!

## Running for Congress
*by Parnell Diggs*

*From the Editor:* Parnell Diggs is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina as well as a board member of the National Federation of the Blind. Here's what he has to say about his experience running for Congress.

Many people will tell you that filling out Census data is a big fat pain. But every ten years, politicians look forward to scrutinizing Census data to redraw district lines for the United States House of Representatives and state legislatures across the nation. Once the Census is taken, each state is allotted a number of US House seats. It is then up to the states to draw their own federal and state districts.

Each political party wants to create districts favoring its own candidates. The major parties can afford to hire experts, who can break down voter characteristics such as age, ethnicity, and gender to make fairly reliable predictions about how groups of individuals, i.e. those groups that make up potential US House districts as well as state legislative districts, are likely to vote.

Likewise, the same analysis can be performed by individual candidates deciding whether to seek public office in a particular district. I used this analysis before deciding to throw my hat into the ring in the race for South Carolina's newly created Congressional District 7 seat.

After reviewing the demographics of the voters in District 7, and the history of how the precincts in District 7 have voted in recent elections, I concluded that a Democrat would receive at least forty percent of the vote no matter who that candidate might be. If I could win among the independents, or pull in a mere one fifth of the remaining voters, I would have it in the bag.

Some of my friends asked me why I decided to run for Congress rather than the State Legislature or County Council; however, in these smaller districts, with fewer precincts and fewer voters, the analysis remained the same but yielded less favorable results. Ultimately, would a Democrat have a mathematical chance in one of the other races? I did not think so.

Thus, I decided to seek the Nomination to be the Democratic candidate for Congress in the November General Election. Several other Democratic candidates, to my chagrin, eventually crunched the numbers and got the same idea. Nevertheless, after talking with Dr. Maurer, I became the first Democrat to announce in late September, 2011, in front of Myrtle Beach City Hall.

Within a week of announcing my candidacy, I was invited to a barbecue hosted by a local Democratic club, and the campaign (which would ultimately cover over ten thousand miles within the District) began. The several dozen Democrats there on that first Saturday in October were pleased to have a Democrat in the race but apprehensive about a blind candidate.

“Hello, Parnell Diggs: I'm running for Congress. Good to see you”, I said to the folks at the registration table. That was easy. More difficult, however, was figuring out how to work the room and greet everyone there. Structured discovery? Maybe. But when sighted people see an unaccompanied blind person; they don't want an introduction, they want to offer help.

Imagine this scene. “Where are you trying to go...?” “Parnell Diggs how are you? I'm running for Congress.” “You're what?” In the words of Dr. Joanne Wilson, “What a Meet the Blind Month activity”! I also noticed one other thing. Those who were not offering help desperately wanted to get out of my way. But the voters were not the only people who were apprehensive at first.

I found myself somewhat out of my comfort zone because, while talking about blindness comes pretty easily to me, I was there to talk about building the economy from the middle-class out, job creation, protecting Social Security, solving the deficit, and tax rates for the very wealthy.

These subjects became quite comfortable as the campaign progressed; but in October of 2011, I was still transitioning from nonpartisan advocate to partisan candidate. While working the room at that first event, I came to a table with some people eating at it. I put my hand on a gentleman's shoulder, “Parnell Diggs: how are you”? ”I just met you in the food line,” he said good naturedly.

The novelty of a blind person running for Congress drove public interest at first, much like news stories with titles such as (and these examples are totally made up) "Blind Student Goes to College", or “Blind Boy Scout Inspiration to All." These types of stories about blind people can be helpful, but they are mostly heartwarming, special interest stories about people beating the odds.

As a blind person, I was offering to help the sighted improve their quality of life. This was the new novelty in the campaign. By the time we got to the Election, members of the media were not using words like brave and inspiring, nor did the fact that I am blind seem newsworthy at all.

Instead, people were talking about my skills as a debater, my knowledge of domestic and foreign policy, and whether my ideas about creating jobs and preserving the Social Security system were realistic. Blindness had become just a characteristic, nothing more and nothing less.

But let me conclude with one final campaign anecdote. About a week before the Election, I participated in a televised debate featuring the four candidates seeking the nomination. During the debate, I was asked a question and participated in a dialogue that went something like this.

"Mr. Diggs, you have served for twelve years as President of the National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina. (I pause here to point out that this may have been the first time that the National Federation of the Blind has ever been the subject of a question in a Congressional debate, but the dialogue continued.) If you are elected to Congress, how much time would you spend on blindness issues?" I was delighted to get the question.

My answer went something like this. "I'm proud of my service in the National Federation of the Blind; however, as your Congressman, I will concentrate not just on blindness issues, but on protecting the poor and underprivileged, those who are underrepresented, seniors, the disabled, and anyone else who comes through my door." We didn't win the Election, but we sure made a difference.

Over the years, we have become quite effective at getting blind leaders appointed to positions of authority within the disability field. This trend must continue because we know more about blindness than anyone else, and we need to be in positions where we can affect blindness and disability policy. But we must not allow society to limit our influence. That is why this campaign was so important.

In the National Federation of the Blind, we have an abundance of young leaders who are capable of exceeding the limits of society's expectations. Can a blind person be President of the United States? What about a member of the Cabinet, Social Security Commissioner, or Director of the CIA? Let us not be satisfied with the limitations which society places upon us, or even with those goals that we believe are barely within the realm of possibility. We are limited only by the boundaries of our imagination.


## For the Blind, Kindle good for Nothing but Kindling
*by Cindy Bennett and Natalie shaheen*

*From the Editor:* Cindy Bennett is the secretary of NABS and is a member of the committee that publishes the Student Slate. Furthermore, she is a new Seattleite and was delighted to join the Amazon protest. Here is her summary of the day's events along with a passionate breakdown of the issue by The Jernigan Institute's Natalie Shaheen

This was my first protest. I had no idea what to expect, but I knew that I was excited about the cause. We marched to Amazon's headquarters, a hundred of my federation family and I, in Seattle's Southlake Union neighborhood. Of course it was raining, but that didn't dampen our spirits as a podium was erected and we raised our signs. We circled chanting phrases like “All I want for Christmas is a book to read!” and “same books, same time!” I met people I had known for years and newcomers who were invited to take part. I met some people who weren't even members of the NFB but who supported our cause. I marched and conversed with longtime federation leaders and students of all ages. We were convening in response to the inaccessibility
of Kindles and their promotion in K12 schools. Below is an excerpt from the NFB's web page on the components of the issue.

"Amazon.com is undertaking a massive effort to deploy its Kindle e-readers and Kindle e-books to K-12 schools across the United States. In some cases Kindle devices have been donated directly to schools, including schools that serve children who are blind or have other disabilities. More important, and more disturbing, is the fact that Amazon has also built a system called Whispercast that allows teachers and school administrators to distribute Kindle content to devices other than Kindles. The problem with all of these plans is that neither the Kindle devices nor the book files used in conjunction with them are accessible to students who are blind or who have other print disabilities. Since school districts have an obligation under federal
law to purchase or deploy only accessible technology and content, Amazon must either make Kindle e-books accessible or cease and desist from its efforts to have them used in the classroom."

I marched because I was a privileged child who received braille instruction that kept me above grade level during my K12 education. And because of that I know that being literate is the cornerstone of future success. But I know that many children do not receive their rightful instruction, and putting Kindles and other inaccessible technologies in schools would set back continuing efforts that the NFB makes to level the educational playing field. I marched because even though I was lucky, I still encountered teachers who maintained lower expectations of me despite my success in the classroom. Inaccessible technology that does not promote braille use or spelling grammar instruction will reaffirm lower expectations like too many other things
in our society.

I received the honor of interviewing with three media sources, and I wove this unfortunate reality into my conversations. As I educated, I was invigorated. Passing cars honked their horns; passersby stopped to look and even asked some questions; various leaders in the NFB and blindness-related fields dawned the mic and transmitted their passionate speeches to the surrounding blocks. My favorite of these came from Natalie Shaheen, the Director of Education at The Jernigan Institute. Below is a text copy of her speech.

"I am a teacher and I am frustrated with the way Amazon is deceiving my colleagues regarding the effectiveness of Kindle content in the classroom.

"I have been a teacher for several years now. So, I am familiar with the type of person who enters my profession. Educators are generally good-natured people who love learning and want to share that love with all of the children in their classes. I have not met a single teacher who would knowingly exclude a student from a learning opportunity.

"Today, teachers are accustomed to adapting their instruction to meet the needs of diverse student groups. General educators have come to realize that the adaptations they make to accommodate students with disabilities, actually improve instruction for all of their pupils. As a result, some techniques which began as accommodations have become an integral part of many teachers' instructional methods.

"In today's 21st century classrooms technology is central to instruction. It isn't just being used in the classroom as the new paper and pencil or slate and stylus. Technology is integral to the learning our children engage in daily. The Common Core State Standards specifically reference technology, demonstrating its significance to ensuring students are college and career ready.

"With the increased use of technology in the classroom, accessibility is paramount. Without the features and functionality that make a device accessible, a student with a disability is left out. As is the case with other accommodations made for students with disabilities, the inclusion of accessibility benefits all users of a device. Recognizing the importance of the accessibility of technology used in the classroom, the Department of Education wrote a dear colleague letter and a frequently asked questions document to educate schools on their legal responsibility to use accessible technology in the classroom.

"Unfortunately, many educators, including administrators, remain unfamiliar with the features that make a technology accessible to all students. Manufacturers like Amazon are taking advantage of the ignorance of educators with regards to accessibility and touting their Kindle products as revolutionary tools that will enhance the learning of all students.

"Fellow educators, do not believe the lies Amazon is telling you. Instead, listen to teachers and other professionals who are experts in accessibility. As a teacher of the blind and a special educator, I know accessibility when I see it, and trust me kindle isn't it! Blind students cannot use kindles independently, access text with refreshable Braille, look up words in the dictionary, or complete dozens of other tasks using kindle content.

"Amazon, it's time for you to wise up. My colleagues and I who are knowledgeable about accessibility will work tirelessly to ensure teachers and school administrators in the US are aware of the lack of accessibility in your products. Knowledgeable educators will not buy your products because as I mentioned earlier, educators won't knowingly exclude a student from a learning experience.

"If you want Kindle content in the schools, incorporate full accessibility in all of your products. Then I will happily promote the use of your technology alongside other accessible technologies in the classroom.

"I want my blind students to become successful blind adults, in order for that to happen, they must be Braille literate and technology literate. They cannot develop either type of literacy using your products.

"It's the 21st century Amazon, separate and unequal doesn't cut it!"

To sum up the profound impact the protest had on me personally, I will summarize a quote from an Amazon employee conversing with one of my fellow Seattle chapter members. “this is ridiculous. The newest Kindle was released and we just haven't had time to make it accessible.” This means that we need to keep fighting. There is no reason why accessibility should be a delayed afterthought. And this poor business decision should most certainly not be applied to technology that is meant to instruct students.

Access the NFB's page on Amazon's Kindle at <http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=11&qid=1706>, and access the quoted speech and other content on Natalie Shaheen's blog. The URL for this blog post is <http://www.nabslink.org/drupal/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=12&qid=1706>.

## Mentoring Toward the Future:
Spotlight on the Illinois Association of Blind Students
*by Rose Sloan*

*From the Editor:* Rose Sloan is the newly elected president of the Illinois Association of Blind Students. In this article she talks about her hopes and dreams for the Illinois student division, as well as her plans for making them a reality.

The Illinois Association of Blind Students (IABS) has been working hard. The preparation started in July for the State Convention where all of our organizing and planning was put into action. IABS plays a big role in the Illinois affiliate, hosting a fundraising event, a breakfast, a lunch, and a breakout session for teens. As has become tradition, the fundraising event was IABS Idol, a karaoke night. This is, without a doubt, IABS's biggest fundraiser of the year because there are no upfront costs, just profit! Thankfully we have an amazing sound crew who is instrumental in making this event possible. Another fundraiser IABS took on this year, and one that is still going on, is a t-shirt sale. This is a joint fundraiser with the affiliate.
Finally, we had a fifty-fifty raffle at the convention, which always brings in over $100.

Other events at the convention included the Student Lunch and Student Breakfast. During the lunch, Ms. Karen Anderson, who served as our NABS rep, gave a wonderful keynote speech. Additionally, an IABS member shared his internship experience, and the Illinois State Scholarship Class of 2012 introduced themselves. The main highlight of the student breakfast the next morning was that the IABS board members for the 2012-13 term were elected. As it turns out, those elected to office are an enthusiastic group.

IABS started our monthly conference calls just a week after the State Convention. Immediately, the Mentoring Committee and the Membership and Outreach Committee were formed. Since their formation, The Mentoring Committee has started three programs: one in which the members of IABS are going to be paired with mentors within NFBI, a second in which IABS members are going to mentor younger students, a third in which a block of four people will be formed consisting of an IABS member, an active NFB parent, and a new parent/student pair. In order to get these programs going, each IABS board member wrote a short paragraph about him/herself. These paragraphs are very useful for matching IABS members with their NFBI mentors. Additionally, these bios
are useful to future mentees so they can pick the IABS member who has similar interests. So far, two high school students have been matched up with IABS mentors. The NFBI/IABS mentoring program is being developed now, and should be formally in place by March. One of the main goals of this program is to bridge the gap between generations within the Illinois affiliate. The more of a community the Illinois affiliate can be, the stronger and more united we will be.

The Membership and Outreach Committee has also been busy. In December, IABS went on a bowling outing. This was not only a fun event for current IABS members, but we also had a new member attend. This was a great way to introduce him to the NFB. This outing was very fun, and IABS will likely plan another event to take place during spring break.

In the meantime, IABS is looking forward to sending two members to Washington Seminar. We are also considering dedicating a conference call to scholarships, in which many different organizations that award scholarships to blind students can be represented. This way, potential applicants are aware of all the different funds that they can apply for. Although the call will focus on organizations based in Illinois, many of these scholarships are open to applicants nationwide.

It looks as if IABS will be as active as ever in the year to come!

## Self-Advocacy in Spain:
Curiosity, Confidence, and Commitment
*by Chelsey Duranleau*

*From the Editor:* Chelsey Duranleau is a current student at BLIND, Inc. Here is what she has to say about her experiences traveling abroad as well as her advice for anyone who endeavors to do so.

On a cold snowy night in January of 2009, I fastened my seat belt as instructed by the all too familiar fasten seat belt sign. The captain came over the loud speaker announcing in a pleasant English accent that all electronic devices needed to be powered down. After the last few cell phones had chimed and last-minute seat belts had been clicked into place, we slowly pulled back down the runway. "It's really happening,” I thought. "I'm really going to a country that I have wanted to visit since I was in the sixth grade." But it would be more than just a visit as a tourist - I would be living there, living and breathing the Spanish culture and lifestyle for almost four months. As the runway disappeared beneath us, my mind became flooded
with questions: How will I access my textbooks? Will I be able to get worksheets and assignments in the appropriate format? How will I learn to navigate this strange city? What happens if I get lost?

Admittedly, the answers to the first 3 questions were still unclear. However, thanks to a fellow Federationist at the national convention in 2008, I learned the answer to question 4. What if I get lost? He said: “It's ok to get lost and you will get lost; it happens to everyone. The trick is to take a step back, acknowledge that you are lost and that you need help, and then ask for it.” "Of course!" I thought. It really is that simple!" That is self-advocacy. As blind people, we want to be as independent as possible. We want to have the power to make decisions about our lives and about what is best for us. Part of this power is having the confidence to ask for assistance if necessary and being committed to following through in order to
get what we desire or to achieve a goal. Never had these concepts rang more true for me than while studying abroad in Seville Spain. To sum it up in one phrase: It is the perfect city to get literally lost in! Not to mention to test your mobility skills in if you are a cane user. The streets are narrow and seem to flow into one another and there are plenty of parked cars, mopeds, and motorcycles aligning side streets and sometimes even blocking the Spanish equivalent of a "sidewalk." My entire experience in Spain was a test of my self-advocacy skills.

I informed all of my professors and faculty at my school that I would need my textbooks and assignments in Microsoft Word so I could read them independently using JAWS. Since it was a small school and I was the only blind student, my professors and other faculty members were easily able to scan materials into a computer and convert them to word so I could access them. It is much easier for me to read Spanish in Braille so I contacted ONCE, a national organization made up of blind and sighted volunteers to obtain a Braille copy of a novel I needed to read for a Spanish literature class. Before I arrived in Spain I contacted ONCE asking them if they would assist me. After signing some forms and providing copies of my passport and other
necessary documentation to the ONCE office I was shown landmarks that could be used while navigating the central section of the city. If I wanted to go somewhere new, I asked my host family for directions if it was within walking distance and when I got lost I remembered the advice I had received the previous summer. I stopped, calmed down, and asked someone for directions. My curiosity seemed to have no bounds. Almost every time I walked somewhere I would get lost, but that didn't stop me. I was determined to go where I wanted to go and do what I needed and wanted to do. When going into a store, I asked for assistance finding what I needed. The more I spoke up, the more comfortable I became speaking and thinking in Spanish. As my
confidence and commitment to advocating for myself grew, so did my curiosity.

In April during a week off from school I decided to take a trip to Morocco with Discover Sevilla, a local travel agency for tourists that organizes group excursions. I was nervous because at the time I didn't know anyone who was going, but I knew this would be the chance of a lifetime. For six days, we drove across Morocco stopping in Rabat, Fez, and other cities to explore and spend the day. The culmination of this trip was riding camels through the Sahara and sleeping under the stars in an oasis. I was more than a little excited, but one of our tour guides had some reservations about my riding a camel because of my blindness. "Oh we'll just have you ride in the car," he said. "I think that would be easier and safer for you." I laughed to
myself and thought, "Have you ever met me? This girl doesn't limit herself because of society's misconceptions or because another option might be easier.” I insisted that I would be fine and that something could happen to any other member of our group as well. Part of the reason I wanted to come on this trip was to ride a camel through the desert and that was what I planned on doing. Eventually, he gave in and I spent the next two hours getting pelted by sand as our caravans made their way to where we would be spending the night. After arriving at the oasis a bunch of us decided that it would be fun to climb a giant sand dune and do some sand boarding. After all, what else is there to do in the desert? It was a hard climb, but with a
little determination and encouragement from a new friend, eventually, I made it to the top. It felt incredible. At that moment as I looked over the edge, covered in sand and sweat, I realized just how far I had come since leaving the US.

But this was far from the end of my journey abroad; during the 2011 – 2012 school year I returned to Spain to work as an assistant English teacher in an elementary school in Palma de Mallorca. Although working with fully-sighted children seemed to be challenging and frustrating at times, it allowed me to exercise my creativity. I tried to complement and reinforce what they were learning from their classroom teachers with fun and engaging activities such as playing games or incorporating popular songs into their lessons. Not only was I helping children to improve their English, but I was also serving a very different and perhaps more significant purpose: that of a role model and a representative of The National Federation of the Blind, an
organization that has helped me overcome my own negative attitudes and misconceptions surrounding blindness. I would not have had the courage to study abroad or return to Spain two years later if it hadn't been for the valuable encouragement and support I received from my NFB family. The most important lesson I have learned from my involvement with the NFB has been that my blindness is a small part of who I am, just like my eye or hair color; it does not define me or limit my dreams of an independent, happy and fulfilling life. As blind people, we must be our own advocates and work together to break down negative attitudes and assumptions imposed on us by the sighted society in which we live.

Remember, you are the best and most important advocate you have. You know yourself better than anyone else. There will be obstacles as you walk through the narrow streets of life, there will be giant sand dunes and you may fall on your way up, but keep going, keep climbing and you will reach the top.

This message was sent to you by National Association of Blind Students
c/o National Federation of the Blind
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at Jernigan Place
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 02:56:12 2013
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:56:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com><CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <398731948204455D9BBE01333ECD4287@userPC>

I also was unable to watch it.
I couldn't find the arkives on the website.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Arielle,
I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.

On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
> I don't have cable.
> Arielle
>
> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>> yourselves.
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>> the show.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>> together LOL.
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>
>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>> Hope
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>
>>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 04:06:15 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:06:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <398731948204455D9BBE01333ECD4287@userPC>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<398731948204455D9BBE01333ECD4287@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYJB2X-p2ALrawYP85BQh+ezAWqWh4N5B6NEnXLdRK0ig@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a direct link.  I'm listening to it now and it already sounds
good.  Great job Sophie and Chris, and others!

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html

On 1/29/13, Rania Ismail LMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I also was unable to watch it.
> I couldn't find the arkives on the website.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>
> Arielle,
> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>
> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>> I don't have cable.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>> yourselves.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>> the show.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>> Hope
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 30 04:20:20 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:20:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS2255019DDF823743ADA5C20CB1E0@phx.gbl>

Dear Sophie and Chris:
Unfortantley, I missed out on the Nick News special last night.
But some of my friends at school were talking about it today during lunch.
They were impressed with your kind words about blindness.
I'll be sure to check out the archive.
Again, great job to you both, and I am very proud of you both!
 Preston

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:55 PM, "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Got it.
> 
> http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html
> 
> Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the
> name of that app is.
> 
> Cindy
> 
> On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
>> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
>> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
>> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>> 
>> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>>> I don't have cable.
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>>> yourselves.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>>> the show.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>>> Hope
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
> 
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 04:17:33 2013
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 00:17:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYJB2X-p2ALrawYP85BQh+ezAWqWh4N5B6NEnXLdRK0ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com><CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com><398731948204455D9BBE01333ECD4287@userPC>
	<CAFja7FYJB2X-p2ALrawYP85BQh+ezAWqWh4N5B6NEnXLdRK0ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0F67414BDD1488B9A94A7948C74E98D@userPC>

Thank you so much.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:06 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Here's a direct link.  I'm listening to it now and it already sounds
good.  Great job Sophie and Chris, and others!

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html

On 1/29/13, Rania Ismail LMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I also was unable to watch it.
> I couldn't find the arkives on the website.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>
> Arielle,
> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>
> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>> I don't have cable.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>> yourselves.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>> the show.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>> Hope
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>  r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com



From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 06:17:26 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:17:26 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley
I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
issues with group projects that I can think of.
The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
work etc.
For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
else will probably not be bothering you much.
Ari


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 13:42:43 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:42:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-3117515164133054804@unknownmsgid>

Cindy, are you referring to the color identification app? It's just
called Color ID.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Got it.
>
> http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html
>
> Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the
> name of that app is.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
>> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
>> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
>> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>>> I don't have cable.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>>> yourselves.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>>> the show.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>>> Hope
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 13:35:28 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:35:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>
References: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-93389713869976786@unknownmsgid>

Thank you so much Josh and all!!!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 13:24:21 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:24:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS2255019DDF823743ADA5C20CB1E0@phx.gbl>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU403-EAS2255019DDF823743ADA5C20CB1E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <-8103439009451159212@unknownmsgid>

Thanks, Preston! I'm very glad that some of your friends at school had
watched as well! I will talk with you soon!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Preston Gaylor <pgradioman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sophie and Chris:
> Unfortantley, I missed out on the Nick News special last night.
> But some of my friends at school were talking about it today during lunch.
> They were impressed with your kind words about blindness.
> I'll be sure to check out the archive.
> Again, great job to you both, and I am very proud of you both!
> Preston
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:55 PM, "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Got it.
>>
>> http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html
>>
>> Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the
>> name of that app is.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle,
>>> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
>>> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
>>> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
>>> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>>>> I don't have cable.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show
>>>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>>>> yourselves.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
>>>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will
>>>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>>>> the show.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>>>> Hope
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 14:36:25 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:36:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <-8103439009451159212@unknownmsgid>
References: <5107c51d.06fc640a.0eb0.fffff3bc@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj5v8hvsg5XBH8QnfCYY55raH4vRsqD_N+g7wbUALe50tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6DNAymjXpz4cmU2KBbucV0i8JqxuQRB8NQ0KDFt2cD0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDNCBzyas1D2jftmgr2aHA8Tqfs-rri+TBXAqThgsNv7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa-mnrQywkAW_VAsiOL+G_YhScxBqr9NDVFdkest-ymeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdwy8G-U95TYQQGVahPS4TE0iuY1v7Fe7Yxp8gBUXmMFNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU403-EAS2255019DDF823743ADA5C20CB1E0@phx.gbl>
	<-8103439009451159212@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY15ChzKqUwcfsNoni4skOq1ey78aAXVY0RDAncT2xYDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I think she was referring to Santiago's social media app.
I'm interested in it as well.

On 1/30/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Preston! I'm very glad that some of your friends at school had
> watched as well! I will talk with you soon!
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 29, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Preston Gaylor <pgradioman at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sophie and Chris:
>> Unfortantley, I missed out on the Nick News special last night.
>> But some of my friends at school were talking about it today during
>> lunch.
>> They were impressed with your kind words about blindness.
>> I'll be sure to check out the archive.
>> Again, great job to you both, and I am very proud of you both!
>> Preston
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:55 PM, "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Got it.
>>>
>>> http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html
>>>
>>> Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the
>>> name of that app is.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Arielle,
>>>> I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on
>>>> the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in
>>>> finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
>>>> If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but
>>>>> I don't have cable.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>>> I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the
>>>>>> show
>>>>>> and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
>>>>>> yourselves.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Sophie and Chris,
>>>>>>> You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in
>>>>>>> demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>> I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told
>>>>>>> my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two
>>>>>>> younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on
>>>>>>> the show.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
>>>>>>>> find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
>>>>>>>> We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
>>>>>>>> together LOL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed
>>>>>>>> an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
>>>>>>>> what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
>>>>>>>> hear a voice and put it with a name!
>>>>>>>> Hope
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
>>>>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
>>>>>>>> to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
>>>>>>>> Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
>>>>>>>> in an excellent way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
>>>>>>>> appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
>>>>>>>> represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to
>>>>>>>> say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cindy Bennett
>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>>
>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 13:46:56 2013
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:46:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <-93389713869976786@unknownmsgid>
References: <EFC56F3A-0F34-4FD1-A6A9-8B854ED18A54@gmail.com>
	<-93389713869976786@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <5F5030A5A1BD4CF48255E961A56EACEC@userPC>

Yes both of you did a wonderful job!
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of christopher
nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:35 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Thank you so much Josh and all!!!

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that appeared on
the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You represented us well. And
I'm extremely proud of what you had to say on there. Once again, my
compliments. Thank you.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
m



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 14:50:19 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:50:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaaQ0h3db6z7Riq-wqN=miJYr7uSm5ywb0JQr25WioRpg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

Do you talk with people outside of class?  In classes where my friends
are they're usually really good about asking me if I want to form a
group with them or something, but in classes where I don't know anyone
I'll make an effort at the beginning of the semester to talk with
people before class and find at least 2 or 3 people in the class in
that way.  This has helped me make group situations easier as well as
helped to form study groups outside of class.  It may sound silly, I
think it's silly myself, but even though you see yourself as outgoing
and approachable most of the students probably don't if all they see
from you is class participation.  They might know that you know your
stuff, but socially they might not know you that well.

On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley
> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
> issues with group projects that I can think of.
> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
> work etc.
> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
> else will probably not be bothering you much.
> Ari
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Jan 30 16:46:01 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:46:01 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Okay!
I tried this online thing again, and tried to open book manager.
When I did, I had one sample library book, "The Wind and the Willows," or something like that.
It would not play my books that I needed for class!
I'm tired of this!
I also got a daizy player that they loaned to me, but there's a problem with that!
It won't work!
I have an assignment due on Friday, and a test on Monday!
This is pathetic!
Let alone the fact that they have that unprofessional holding music!
I'm not putting up with the run-around that I'm getting from them, anymore!
Good grief!
Blessings, Joshua


From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 17:01:53 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:01:53 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaaQ0h3db6z7Riq-wqN=miJYr7uSm5ywb0JQr25WioRpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaaQ0h3db6z7Riq-wqN=miJYr7uSm5ywb0JQr25WioRpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo351RwRtberLHC=3nkFiHXOC+qWsN9FwNbb_v5oyXDOCvfaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti
This is very interesting, I please have a question, because I want to
know how you do it.
You said that at the beginning of the term you find and talk to people
in class. If you are totally blind, can you tell me what you do? My
problem at university is that the friends I've made, especially in new
and large classes, its generally people that have approached me, I
very seldom actually approach people. Do you basically hear a person
and if they're near you and sound nice do you then try randomly start
talking to them? I wish I was like you, I generally feel incredibly
nervous. This is actually not just a blind issue, many sighted people
in my uni where I study don't even know half the people they study
with, because my uni is very much the type of uni where the students
come for their lectures and go home again, it doesn't have such a
strong culture of people living there, not dorm type thing. When I've
asked this question to sighted people like how did they actually start
meeting people in the different classes where they go they have often
said something like: "Well I saw him/her, they seemed to have a
pleasant face and be approachable so I went and started talking to
them."
I think that's what we as blind people probably also do, but obviously
with voice. But Ashley, I know this incredibly obvious and probably
stupid to say, but when you meet people, and you see you can get on
with them, try get their contact details at the same time you meet
them. I'm saying this because these classes are just so large that if
a group project or class work has to be done, or you need notes, they
might be sitting somewhere totally different and obviously you then
can't actually see where they are.
Ari
On 1/30/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> Do you talk with people outside of class?  In classes where my friends
> are they're usually really good about asking me if I want to form a
> group with them or something, but in classes where I don't know anyone
> I'll make an effort at the beginning of the semester to talk with
> people before class and find at least 2 or 3 people in the class in
> that way.  This has helped me make group situations easier as well as
> helped to form study groups outside of class.  It may sound silly, I
> think it's silly myself, but even though you see yourself as outgoing
> and approachable most of the students probably don't if all they see
> from you is class participation.  They might know that you know your
> stuff, but socially they might not know you that well.
>
> On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley
>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>> work etc.
>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>> Ari
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>


From dwebster125 at verizon.net  Wed Jan 30 19:28:26 2013
From: dwebster125 at verizon.net (Dave Webster)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:28:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000f01cdff1f$fa6fc370$ef4f4a50$@net>

	Hey folks its Dave from California.  I've recently had problems with
learning ally as well.  Some times it syncs stuff just fine and then some
times it won't.  I've also gotten the run around with them as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:46 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!

Okay!
I tried this online thing again, and tried to open book manager.
When I did, I had one sample library book, "The Wind and the Willows," or
something like that.
It would not play my books that I needed for class!
I'm tired of this!
I also got a daizy player that they loaned to me, but there's a problem with
that!
It won't work!
I have an assignment due on Friday, and a test on Monday!
This is pathetic!
Let alone the fact that they have that unprofessional holding music!
I'm not putting up with the run-around that I'm getting from them, anymore!
Good grief!
Blessings, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40verizon.ne
t



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 19:29:58 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:29:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351RwRtberLHC=3nkFiHXOC+qWsN9FwNbb_v5oyXDOCvfaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaaQ0h3db6z7Riq-wqN=miJYr7uSm5ywb0JQr25WioRpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351RwRtberLHC=3nkFiHXOC+qWsN9FwNbb_v5oyXDOCvfaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaDWQNbXrmxgEGYP+f8SxebakjahXfYJgMpDQZBSD+6gQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ari,

My university has a big community feel to it.  Most people on my
campus are pretty friendly and are pretty approachable.
I am not totally blind, but most people who I'm not super close with
don't know that because they see me with a cane and I don't really
discuss the specifics of my vision unless I know someone for a little
while.  In my history class last semester I just started by making
small talk with the girl across the aisle from me.  I then found out
that she lived in my dorm on another floor and we decided to study for
tests together.  We just kept talking and over studying and just quick
little conversations before or after class we got to know each other a
little.  It doesn't have to be something big, just start with
introducing yourself and getting comfortable with the person, then
just things like asking how they're classes are going.  If they're a
friendly person too then the conversation should just naturally branch
off.  Be an active listener, so if someone says something interesting
ask more about it and it will help make them feel like you're
interested in what they have to say, and let them know they can do the
same with you.
Also, you can find friends in your major and if you get close with
them those may be some of your best friends.  I am really close with
two other music majors who I met in my first semester music classes.
One and I are in the same fraternity, the other and I take some of our
gen ed courses together, and the three of us are trying to get an
apartment together for next year.  So sometimes your friends from your
major will become your biggest allies in other courses too.

On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti
> This is very interesting, I please have a question, because I want to
> know how you do it.
> You said that at the beginning of the term you find and talk to people
> in class. If you are totally blind, can you tell me what you do? My
> problem at university is that the friends I've made, especially in new
> and large classes, its generally people that have approached me, I
> very seldom actually approach people. Do you basically hear a person
> and if they're near you and sound nice do you then try randomly start
> talking to them? I wish I was like you, I generally feel incredibly
> nervous. This is actually not just a blind issue, many sighted people
> in my uni where I study don't even know half the people they study
> with, because my uni is very much the type of uni where the students
> come for their lectures and go home again, it doesn't have such a
> strong culture of people living there, not dorm type thing. When I've
> asked this question to sighted people like how did they actually start
> meeting people in the different classes where they go they have often
> said something like: "Well I saw him/her, they seemed to have a
> pleasant face and be approachable so I went and started talking to
> them."
> I think that's what we as blind people probably also do, but obviously
> with voice. But Ashley, I know this incredibly obvious and probably
> stupid to say, but when you meet people, and you see you can get on
> with them, try get their contact details at the same time you meet
> them. I'm saying this because these classes are just so large that if
> a group project or class work has to be done, or you need notes, they
> might be sitting somewhere totally different and obviously you then
> can't actually see where they are.
> Ari
> On 1/30/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley,
>>
>> Do you talk with people outside of class?  In classes where my friends
>> are they're usually really good about asking me if I want to form a
>> group with them or something, but in classes where I don't know anyone
>> I'll make an effort at the beginning of the semester to talk with
>> people before class and find at least 2 or 3 people in the class in
>> that way.  This has helped me make group situations easier as well as
>> helped to form study groups outside of class.  It may sound silly, I
>> think it's silly myself, but even though you see yourself as outgoing
>> and approachable most of the students probably don't if all they see
>> from you is class participation.  They might know that you know your
>> stuff, but socially they might not know you that well.
>>
>> On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ashley
>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>> work etc.
>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>> Ari
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Jan 30 20:32:14 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:32:14 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!
In-Reply-To: <000f01cdff1f$fa6fc370$ef4f4a50$@net>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<000f01cdff1f$fa6fc370$ef4f4a50$@net>
Message-ID: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9FE@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I have some good news!
I talked with one of the representatives and they told me what I needed to do to download my books.
I just got one downloaded successfully!
I'm still sending the Daizy player back.
The downloading takes forever though!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Dave Webster [dwebster125 at verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:28 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!

        Hey folks its Dave from California.  I've recently had problems with
learning ally as well.  Some times it syncs stuff just fine and then some
times it won't.  I've also gotten the run around with them as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:46 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!

Okay!
I tried this online thing again, and tried to open book manager.
When I did, I had one sample library book, "The Wind and the Willows," or
something like that.
It would not play my books that I needed for class!
I'm tired of this!
I also got a daizy player that they loaned to me, but there's a problem with
that!
It won't work!
I have an assignment due on Friday, and a test on Monday!
This is pathetic!
Let alone the fact that they have that unprofessional holding music!
I'm not putting up with the run-around that I'm getting from them, anymore!
Good grief!
Blessings, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40verizon.ne
t


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu




From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 20:56:22 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:56:22 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaDWQNbXrmxgEGYP+f8SxebakjahXfYJgMpDQZBSD+6gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaaQ0h3db6z7Riq-wqN=miJYr7uSm5ywb0JQr25WioRpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351RwRtberLHC=3nkFiHXOC+qWsN9FwNbb_v5oyXDOCvfaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaDWQNbXrmxgEGYP+f8SxebakjahXfYJgMpDQZBSD+6gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo351QpDmZfV=betsx7EfKJZYjbUz5njRGMX0+AiXAj+xwwXg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti
Thanks, this is really good advice. Sorry no, I didn't bring up the
totally blind aspect to mean you have to discuss your vision with
people, I rather bought it up to explain that people can't see the
other person to identify or check if he or she is there in class.
You are definitely right about the major, many people you can make
friends with come from there, the friends I've mostly made come from
my major. Another place where it is a bit easier and good to meet
people is if you take a language, because the classes are generally
smaller, there is much interaction and because of the conversation you
do get to know people, and since you interact more they realise you
are normal and can actually communicate.
I think one of the problems, I don't know if it is like this in
America, but here when they were young the sighted people have never
really been exposed to blind people and at many schools disability is
not really explained, or rather the idea of difference and working in
different ways is not really taught that much.
Ari
On 1/30/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ari,
>
> My university has a big community feel to it.  Most people on my
> campus are pretty friendly and are pretty approachable.
> I am not totally blind, but most people who I'm not super close with
> don't know that because they see me with a cane and I don't really
> discuss the specifics of my vision unless I know someone for a little
> while.  In my history class last semester I just started by making
> small talk with the girl across the aisle from me.  I then found out
> that she lived in my dorm on another floor and we decided to study for
> tests together.  We just kept talking and over studying and just quick
> little conversations before or after class we got to know each other a
> little.  It doesn't have to be something big, just start with
> introducing yourself and getting comfortable with the person, then
> just things like asking how they're classes are going.  If they're a
> friendly person too then the conversation should just naturally branch
> off.  Be an active listener, so if someone says something interesting
> ask more about it and it will help make them feel like you're
> interested in what they have to say, and let them know they can do the
> same with you.
> Also, you can find friends in your major and if you get close with
> them those may be some of your best friends.  I am really close with
> two other music majors who I met in my first semester music classes.
> One and I are in the same fraternity, the other and I take some of our
> gen ed courses together, and the three of us are trying to get an
> apartment together for next year.  So sometimes your friends from your
> major will become your biggest allies in other courses too.
>
> On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti
>> This is very interesting, I please have a question, because I want to
>> know how you do it.
>> You said that at the beginning of the term you find and talk to people
>> in class. If you are totally blind, can you tell me what you do? My
>> problem at university is that the friends I've made, especially in new
>> and large classes, its generally people that have approached me, I
>> very seldom actually approach people. Do you basically hear a person
>> and if they're near you and sound nice do you then try randomly start
>> talking to them? I wish I was like you, I generally feel incredibly
>> nervous. This is actually not just a blind issue, many sighted people
>> in my uni where I study don't even know half the people they study
>> with, because my uni is very much the type of uni where the students
>> come for their lectures and go home again, it doesn't have such a
>> strong culture of people living there, not dorm type thing. When I've
>> asked this question to sighted people like how did they actually start
>> meeting people in the different classes where they go they have often
>> said something like: "Well I saw him/her, they seemed to have a
>> pleasant face and be approachable so I went and started talking to
>> them."
>> I think that's what we as blind people probably also do, but obviously
>> with voice. But Ashley, I know this incredibly obvious and probably
>> stupid to say, but when you meet people, and you see you can get on
>> with them, try get their contact details at the same time you meet
>> them. I'm saying this because these classes are just so large that if
>> a group project or class work has to be done, or you need notes, they
>> might be sitting somewhere totally different and obviously you then
>> can't actually see where they are.
>> Ari
>> On 1/30/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> Do you talk with people outside of class?  In classes where my friends
>>> are they're usually really good about asking me if I want to form a
>>> group with them or something, but in classes where I don't know anyone
>>> I'll make an effort at the beginning of the semester to talk with
>>> people before class and find at least 2 or 3 people in the class in
>>> that way.  This has helped me make group situations easier as well as
>>> helped to form study groups outside of class.  It may sound silly, I
>>> think it's silly myself, but even though you see yourself as outgoing
>>> and approachable most of the students probably don't if all they see
>>> from you is class participation.  They might know that you know your
>>> stuff, but socially they might not know you that well.
>>>
>>> On 1/30/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ashley
>>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>>> work etc.
>>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>>> Ari
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> nabs-l:
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 21:20:43 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:20:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
Message-ID: <51098ed9.9095ec0a.0d66.6254@mx.google.com>

The color app I use is called aid colors.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:42:43 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Cindy, are you referring to the color identification app? It's 
just
called Color ID.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 Got it.

 http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html

 Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what 
the
 name of that app is.

 Cindy

 On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Arielle,
 I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted 
on
 the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm 
interested in
 finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)
 If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.

 On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have 
watched but
 I don't have cable.
 Arielle

 On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear Sophie and Chris,
 I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved 
the show
 and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of
 yourselves.
 Sincerely,
 Nathan Clark

 On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear Sophie and Chris,
 You both did a great job of representing blind people in general 
in
 demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people 
can do.
 I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I 
told
 my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have 
two
 younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I 
will
 reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his 
thoughts on
 the show.
 Sincerely,
 Nathan

 On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to
 find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a 
mac.
 We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured
 together LOL.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

 Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he 
programmed
 an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know
 what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to
 hear a voice and put it with a name!
 Hope

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist
 <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

 Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud
 to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the
 Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together
 in an excellent way.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.

 Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that
 appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You
 represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had 
to
 say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.

 Sent from my iPhone
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for nabs-l:

 
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 r%40gmail.com


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 info for nabs-l:

 
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 for nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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40gmail.com

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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Kaiti

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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 nabs-l:
 
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il.com


 --
 Cindy Bennett
 Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
 Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of 
Washington

 B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
 clb5590 at gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 30 22:01:12 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:01:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!
In-Reply-To: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C59029FFE3A11944A4AD8DD66F7458C11C65E9AD@CH1PRD0710MB393.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E4ED7C6E7AA84121B1F53F1C76803D2E@OwnerPC>

Joshua,
It would be more  productive to explain the problems so someone can help.
Unfortunately, I cannot help you as I could not get the downloading process 
to work either.
Ever since they became learning Ally and  redesigned the  website and 
download manager I cannot get it to work; if I could, I'd read on my braile 
note or  vr stream.
I can add to the bookshelf but from there I'm stuck!
I don't understand what to do with the download manager and how to retrieve 
the book!

A solution may be to use the daisy cds. That is what I do. old fashioned but 
works wonderfully! Play the Cds on an older Victor reader player that can 
play cds, use jaws FS reader but you need a user key for it or use Learning 
ally's daisy reading software.
I used FS reader and its easyto use. Only drawback is you cannot bookmark 
with it; at least not to my knowledge.
I also have the new humanware player wich has a cd slot.
If you cannot use the website and downloading I suggest the cds. Call 
learning ally, order them and then play them quickly for your test.
They are real quick about sending cds.

Ashley



-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:46 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] More Learning Ally problems!

Okay!
I tried this online thing again, and tried to open book manager.
When I did, I had one sample library book, "The Wind and the Willows," or 
something like that.
It would not play my books that I needed for class!
I'm tired of this!
I also got a daizy player that they loaned to me, but there's a problem with 
that!
It won't work!
I have an assignment due on Friday, and a test on Monday!
This is pathetic!
Let alone the fact that they have that unprofessional holding music!
I'm not putting up with the run-around that I'm getting from them, anymore!
Good grief!
Blessings, Joshua

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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 22:14:33 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:14:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I always am the first to get up and grab people when she says get a group. I 
ask the persons to either side of me if they want to be a group and if I get 
going with in the first few seconds I 90% of the time get a group.
Black board is accessible. You should also take a group communication class, 
it will help you understand why people do the things they do when they are 
in groups and how to counter them.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues

Hello all,
I consider myself to be outgoing and approachable; I participate in class 
discussions fairly well since its organized and the professor calls on 
students to talk. Sometimes, I even get compliments on my contributions.

But a big challenge I’ve encountered is group projects. I mean those 
projects where class chats amongst themselves and forms groups.
I have a group project for family sociology where we have to create a tv 
show skit to illustrate sociological concepts. I’m also concerened about 
accessing comments students use on blackboard since we are linked as group 
members. I am not sure that is accessible. At one point it was not.
I also am not always keen on group projects due to communication issues and 
other classmates waiting to the last minute to do the work or failing to do 
their part.
But those issues aren’t blindness specific but it sure magnifies the 
problem.
I’m going to get into a group Thursday. I asked the professor if she could 
help me find a group and she will Thursday during class. She said absent 
students did not have a group yet either.
So, any tips on interacting with group members or finding groups would be 
good. I also struggle with this sometimes during general class group 
discussions. Often I speak up to people around me and join their group. But 
sometimes, they have enough people already and I have to find another group.
Anyway thought I’d share this issue. I recall feeling left out in high 
school and its sad to me this reappears in college.
Ashley
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From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 22:25:27 2013
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:25:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] The Student Slate (Winter 2013)
Message-ID: <51099dd8.2605650a.5553.ffffe02c@mx.google.com>

Dear Nabs Members,

The link for downloading the Winter 2013 issue of the Student 
Slate is not working.  I am not sure I am using the right link.  
Can someone please email me off list with the link? Any help 
would be greatly appreciated.


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 22:50:22 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:50:22 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] The Student Slate (Winter 2013)
In-Reply-To: <51099dd8.2605650a.5553.ffffe02c@mx.google.com>
References: <51099dd8.2605650a.5553.ffffe02c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E673D6A5-D9E5-4F77-96F4-9968F5C4A3D1@gmail.com>

I just opened the link on my phone in Safari. The link is labeled "read the slate here" or something like that.

Cindy Bennett
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology: UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Roanna Baccchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nabs Members,
> 
> The link for downloading the Winter 2013 issue of the Student Slate is not working.  I am not sure I am using the right link.  Can someone please email me off list with the link? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 01:56:15 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:56:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.
In-Reply-To: <51098ed9.9095ec0a.0d66.6254@mx.google.com>
References: <51098ed9.9095ec0a.0d66.6254@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <011001cdff56$28037d00$780a7700$@gmail.com>

Sophie,

	Thank you; I will have to try that app. I wonder if this is the app which Santiago demonstrated in the show.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

The color app I use is called aid colors.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:42:43 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

Cindy, are you referring to the color identification app? It's just called Color ID.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
wrote:

 Got it.

 http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/nick-news-135-full-episode.html

 Good job guys! Way to plug the NFB! And I too want to know what the  name of that app is.

 Cindy

 On 1/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Arielle,
 I believe one of the announcement emails said it would be posted on  the Nick News archives, although I don't know when.  I'm interested in  finding it though as I was unable to watch it too.  :)  If I find the link I'll post it to the thread.

 On 1/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Is there any way to watch a recording online? I would have watched but  I don't have cable.
 Arielle

 On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear Sophie and Chris,
 I just talked to my family in Michigan and they totally loved the show  and thought it was well done. You both again should be proud of  yourselves.
 Sincerely,
 Nathan Clark

 On 1/29/13, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear Sophie and Chris,
 You both did a great job of representing blind people in general in  demonstrating that blind people can do anything sighted people can do.
 I personally watched the program with my mom and step dad and I told  my dad and step mom in Michigan about the show because they have two  younger kids who are my sisters who would have liked the show. I will  reply back when I hear from my dad in Michigan about his thoughts on  the show.
 Sincerely,
 Nathan

 On 1/29/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm afraid I don't know Santiago or his application. I'd like to  find out what it is, though, and if it's accessible eusing a mac.
 We didn't actually get to meet each other. We were just featured  together LOL.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:22:29 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My complements.

 Sophie Or Chris, in the segment, Santiago said that he programmed  an application to work with social Networking sites. Do you know  what the application is called? It was also nice to be able to  hear a voice and put it with a name!
 Hope

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sophie Trist  <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

 Thank you, Josh. It was a great honor to be chosen. I was proud  to represent the NFB and all blind kids. The people on the  Nickelodion channel did a great job putting everything together  in an excellent way.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:22:50 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] My complements.

 Hello all, just wanted to give my compliments to those that  appeared on the kids without site program on Nickelodeon. You  represented us well… And I'm extremely proud of what you had to  say on there. Once again, my compliments. Thank you.

 Sent from my iPhone
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 r%40gmail.com


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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Kaiti

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 --
 Cindy Bennett
 Secretary: National Association of Blind Students  Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

 B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
 clb5590 at gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 02:16:59 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:16:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYYAO8j2t9YoaRN4HrXYAppQ+3uJhzNU_9hGTqpte517A@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed.  Most of the time people won't want to move far so getting
together with the people closest to you is a pretty solid way of
finding a group.
Also, in the future,, try to avoid having the teacher place you in a
group.  I know this sounds kind of dumb but I've found it can be a big
put off for some sighted students because if they're not familiar with
you it could make them feel awkward, like they have to do it because
the teacher has assigned you to a group with them, or they might even
be a little intimidated because they don't know better about blind
students or the technology or if you'll be able to do your part.  Like
I said, it's kind of dumb, but that's why talking to them and
educating them by example outside of class is so important.

HTH.

On 1/30/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I always am the first to get up and grab people when she says get a group. I
> ask the persons to either side of me if they want to be a group and if I get
> going with in the first few seconds I 90% of the time get a group.
> Black board is accessible. You should also take a group communication class,
> it will help you understand why people do the things they do when they are
> in groups and how to counter them.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>
> Hello all,
> I consider myself to be outgoing and approachable; I participate in class
> discussions fairly well since its organized and the professor calls on
> students to talk. Sometimes, I even get compliments on my contributions.
>
> But a big challenge I’ve encountered is group projects. I mean those
> projects where class chats amongst themselves and forms groups.
> I have a group project for family sociology where we have to create a tv
> show skit to illustrate sociological concepts. I’m also concerened about
> accessing comments students use on blackboard since we are linked as group
> members. I am not sure that is accessible. At one point it was not.
> I also am not always keen on group projects due to communication issues and
> other classmates waiting to the last minute to do the work or failing to do
> their part.
> But those issues aren’t blindness specific but it sure magnifies the
> problem.
> I’m going to get into a group Thursday. I asked the professor if she could
> help me find a group and she will Thursday during class. She said absent
> students did not have a group yet either.
> So, any tips on interacting with group members or finding groups would be
> good. I also struggle with this sometimes during general class group
> discussions. Often I speak up to people around me and join their group. But
> sometimes, they have enough people already and I have to find another group.
> Anyway thought I’d share this issue. I recall feeling left out in high
> school and its sad to me this reappears in college.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 02:26:42 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:26:42 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCRF8xBNCupt1-iyL-YOHUAWbG1Kasr+vDPvxjW-oZLMw@mail.gmail.com>

I know groupwork can be tough. It's tough for everyone, but for us
blind folks it can be hard to find partners without using eye contact
and other visual methods. I  have experienced similar difficulties and
I hope it's comforting to know that you aren't alone. If you do have a
friend in your class and you know in advance that  there will be
groupwork, you could arrange with your friend to sit together. But if
you don't know anybody in the class, then just ask the people around
you and you should be fine. I wouldn't suggest getting your professor
involved unless you've already tried asking people and everyone you
ask is already grouped up. But in my experience college students are
almost always willing to include us if  we just ask. As far as
figuring out how to participate, find something you enjoy or are good
at and just volunteer to take care of that thing. I've found it's
easier to be accepted and feel like a useful part of the group if I
take the lead in making arrangements, like offering to host group
meetings at my house. Also, organizing a study group in a class can be
a good way to make friends and also improve your own studying. Most
classes have a way to send email to everyone in the class, or if not,
you could send your professor something to send  to the rest of the
class about setting up a study group.
Arielle

On 1/30/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I always am the first to get up and grab people when she says get a group. I
> ask the persons to either side of me if they want to be a group and if I get
> going with in the first few seconds I 90% of the time get a group.
> Black board is accessible. You should also take a group communication class,
> it will help you understand why people do the things they do when they are
> in groups and how to counter them.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>
> Hello all,
> I consider myself to be outgoing and approachable; I participate in class
> discussions fairly well since its organized and the professor calls on
> students to talk. Sometimes, I even get compliments on my contributions.
>
> But a big challenge I’ve encountered is group projects. I mean those
> projects where class chats amongst themselves and forms groups.
> I have a group project for family sociology where we have to create a tv
> show skit to illustrate sociological concepts. I’m also concerened about
> accessing comments students use on blackboard since we are linked as group
> members. I am not sure that is accessible. At one point it was not.
> I also am not always keen on group projects due to communication issues and
> other classmates waiting to the last minute to do the work or failing to do
> their part.
> But those issues aren’t blindness specific but it sure magnifies the
> problem.
> I’m going to get into a group Thursday. I asked the professor if she could
> help me find a group and she will Thursday during class. She said absent
> students did not have a group yet either.
> So, any tips on interacting with group members or finding groups would be
> good. I also struggle with this sometimes during general class group
> discussions. Often I speak up to people around me and join their group. But
> sometimes, they have enough people already and I have to find another group.
> Anyway thought I’d share this issue. I recall feeling left out in high
> school and its sad to me this reappears in college.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 31 07:16:59 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:16:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC>

Ari,
Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive 
team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't 
help me get included in a group discussion.
I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work 
with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then 
asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.

Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating. Why? 
Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the position 
to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually 
interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting 
started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I 
cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question we're 
on.
I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
us like four or five questions.
She says get in groups of about five people.
One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the 
answers to questions. He/she also will
place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation credit. 
Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed copy 
to the professor.
One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss as 
a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the room 
systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a group 
member calls out and shares their stuff.

For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an assignment 
where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating sociological 
concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much tv; 
and certainly not reality tv shows!

As to the other suggestions, I did those.
Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are already 
paired in groups for the project.
Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already 
know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from 
another class, in this case sociology 201.
I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to 
time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.

As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing 
education while I look for work. These additional courses such as business 
writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as a 
way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer from 
writing samples and professor recommendations.

I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried 
and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get a 
study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and he 
seemed mature and friendly.

Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life, I'd 
work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that nature.
I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they ask. 
But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides visual 
impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me than 
the characteristic of partial vision.
So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they 
will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I am 
including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time to 
interact outside class unless you are in a club.

Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next 
class.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ari Damoulakis
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues

Hi Ashley
I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
issues with group projects that I can think of.
The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
work etc.
For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
else will probably not be bothering you much.
Ari

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 31 07:22:06 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:22:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCRF8xBNCupt1-iyL-YOHUAWbG1Kasr+vDPvxjW-oZLMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC><8E62674257AD4AC2BD93B7394A3B5E8F@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJCRF8xBNCupt1-iyL-YOHUAWbG1Kasr+vDPvxjW-oZLMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C9C95ED68B024271B08AADA65945B2C0@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
Thanks. BTW, no I did not have friends in the class. I typically do not know 
anyone when I go to classes.
I learn names through talking to people and hearing their  names and voices 
in class discussions.
People form groups so quickly, probably because of eye contact.
I am friendly with some students; one of them works at the student café and 
recognized me from there.
But friendly chatter about your day or life doesn't always translate to 
getting a group.

I'm hopeful my professor will get me into a group.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:26 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues

I know groupwork can be tough. It's tough for everyone, but for us
blind folks it can be hard to find partners without using eye contact
and other visual methods. I  have experienced similar difficulties and
I hope it's comforting to know that you aren't alone. If you do have a
friend in your class and you know in advance that  there will be
groupwork, you could arrange with your friend to sit together. But if
you don't know anybody in the class, then just ask the people around
you and you should be fine. I wouldn't suggest getting your professor
involved unless you've already tried asking people and everyone you
ask is already grouped up. But in my experience college students are
almost always willing to include us if  we just ask. As far as
figuring out how to participate, find something you enjoy or are good
at and just volunteer to take care of that thing. I've found it's
easier to be accepted and feel like a useful part of the group if I
take the lead in making arrangements, like offering to host group
meetings at my house. Also, organizing a study group in a class can be
a good way to make friends and also improve your own studying. Most
classes have a way to send email to everyone in the class, or if not,
you could send your professor something to send  to the rest of the
class about setting up a study group.
Arielle

On 1/30/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I always am the first to get up and grab people when she says get a group. 
> I
> ask the persons to either side of me if they want to be a group and if I 
> get
> going with in the first few seconds I 90% of the time get a group.
> Black board is accessible. You should also take a group communication 
> class,
> it will help you understand why people do the things they do when they are
> in groups and how to counter them.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>
> Hello all,
> I consider myself to be outgoing and approachable; I participate in class
> discussions fairly well since its organized and the professor calls on
> students to talk. Sometimes, I even get compliments on my contributions.
>
> But a big challenge I’ve encountered is group projects. I mean those
> projects where class chats amongst themselves and forms groups.
> I have a group project for family sociology where we have to create a tv
> show skit to illustrate sociological concepts. I’m also concerened about
> accessing comments students use on blackboard since we are linked as group
> members. I am not sure that is accessible. At one point it was not.
> I also am not always keen on group projects due to communication issues 
> and
> other classmates waiting to the last minute to do the work or failing to 
> do
> their part.
> But those issues aren’t blindness specific but it sure magnifies the
> problem.
> I’m going to get into a group Thursday. I asked the professor if she could
> help me find a group and she will Thursday during class. She said absent
> students did not have a group yet either.
> So, any tips on interacting with group members or finding groups would be
> good. I also struggle with this sometimes during general class group
> discussions. Often I speak up to people around me and join their group. 
> But
> sometimes, they have enough people already and I have to find another 
> group.
> Anyway thought I’d share this issue. I recall feeling left out in high
> school and its sad to me this reappears in college.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 07:42:10 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:42:10 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
have done if it wasn't for audible.
With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
us how its going, am very interested to know.
Ari

On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ari,
> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't
> help me get included in a group discussion.
> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then
> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>
> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating. Why?
> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the position
> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting
> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I
> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question we're
> on.
> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
> us like four or five questions.
> She says get in groups of about five people.
> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
> answers to questions. He/she also will
> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation credit.
> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed copy
> to the professor.
> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss as
> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the room
> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a group
> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>
> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an assignment
> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating sociological
> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much tv;
> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>
> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are already
> paired in groups for the project.
> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
> another class, in this case sociology 201.
> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>
> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as business
> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as a
> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer from
> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>
> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried
> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get a
> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and he
> seemed mature and friendly.
>
> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life, I'd
> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that nature.
> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they ask.
> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides visual
> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me than
> the characteristic of partial vision.
> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they
> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I am
> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time to
> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>
> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
> class.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ari Damoulakis
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>
> Hi Ashley
> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
> issues with group projects that I can think of.
> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
> work etc.
> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
> else will probably not be bothering you much.
> Ari
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 16:01:34 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:01:34 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
  I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
although that seldom happens.
  Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
saying "no!  That won't work for me."
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
> have done if it wasn't for audible.
> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
> us how its going, am very interested to know.
> Ari
>
> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Ari,
>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>> doesn't
>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then
>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>
>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>> Why?
>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>> position
>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting
>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I
>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>> we're
>> on.
>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>> us like four or five questions.
>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>> credit.
>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>> copy
>> to the professor.
>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>> as
>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>> room
>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>> group
>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>
>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>> assignment
>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>> sociological
>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>> tv;
>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>
>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>> already
>> paired in groups for the project.
>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>
>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>> business
>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>> a
>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>> from
>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>
>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried
>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>> a
>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and
>> he
>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>
>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>> I'd
>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>> nature.
>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>> ask.
>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>> visual
>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>> than
>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they
>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>> am
>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>> to
>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>
>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>> class.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>
>> Hi Ashley
>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>> work etc.
>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>> Ari
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 19:03:47 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:03:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC>
	<CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa+Th77=jdjwKCQpFo0k4H7ppS+cB6u9PWztwsbQqt2Sg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

I second Kirt in that I say this with all due civility, but I never
asked or suggested that you be an embassador and march into class
championing the blind community.  The point of educating other
students you're going to have to work with is not blindness-related
outreach, but getting them to see that you're capable of the same
work, pulling your weight without them required to do much extra to
help you, etc.  Actually, it really has more to do with you putting
you and your capabilities and strengths out there and educating them
about you with tidbits of blindness stuff here and there (which
usually turn out to be questions directed at you from peers anyway and
you just have to be open and comfortable about answering them).  I've
found in my high school years that the students who didn't know what I
was capable of were avoidant of working with me because they were
unsure of what they would have to do.  Once they got to know me and I
showed them I would do my part without them doing much besides reading
print out loud here and there group work got easier.  All I meant was
that it would probably be in your best interest to small talk here or
there so they can look past the blindness and get to know you more as
someone else they can work with on the same field.  Once people get
past that small aspect of you they'll typically be very helpful and
willing to invite you to participate with them because they will see
you as a capable student who happens to be blind rather than the blind
student who they don't really know much about.
I know plenty of blind people who attend community colleges, and some
who go to school while keeping a job, and still interact with people
they go to class with for studying and other purposes even if it's
just a minute or so here and there, but if you don't want to talk to
people the only other suggestion I have is to use Brandon's strategy
of speed.  I'd think a majority of people on this list, including
myself, are unable to make eye contact for groups and use verbal
interaction and speed as our assets in finding groups.  Brandon's
strategy has proved pretty useful for me as well and he's right that
it works about 9 out of 10 times if not more often than that.
However, the merits of social interaction that Kirt talked about are
really useful, especially when groups are full and a student can
politely tell you that the group on the other side of the classroom
looks smaller so I hope you'll reconsider using some of those for your
own benefit.  I hope I didn't come across as condescending because
that was not my intent, I was just giving suggestions based on my
experiences.  Whether you choose to use them is ultimately up to you,
but these have worked for me and others so hopefully one or two will
suit your needs.
HTH

On 1/31/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
> insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
> going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
> suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
>   I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
> me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
> of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
> accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
> commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
> thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
> me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
> matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
> easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
> for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
> starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
> professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
> telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
> people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
> the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
> to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
> like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
> even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
> in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
> perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
> they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
> needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
> If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
> someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
> the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
> wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
> happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
> although that seldom happens.
>   Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
> thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
> lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
> uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
> issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
> eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
> arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
> saying "no!  That won't work for me."
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
>> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
>> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
>> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
>> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
>> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
>> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
>> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
>> have done if it wasn't for audible.
>> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
>> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
>> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
>> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
>> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
>> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
>> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
>> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
>> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
>> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
>> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
>> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
>> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
>> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
>> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
>> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
>> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
>> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
>> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
>> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
>> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
>> us how its going, am very interested to know.
>> Ari
>>
>> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>>> doesn't
>>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and
>>> then
>>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>>
>>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>>> Why?
>>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>>> position
>>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or
>>> getting
>>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much.
>>> I
>>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>>> we're
>>> on.
>>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>>> us like four or five questions.
>>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>>> credit.
>>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>>> copy
>>> to the professor.
>>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>>> as
>>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>>> room
>>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>>> group
>>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>>
>>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>>> assignment
>>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>>> sociological
>>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>>> tv;
>>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>>
>>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>>> already
>>> paired in groups for the project.
>>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>>
>>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget
>>> it!
>>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>>> business
>>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>>> a
>>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>>> from
>>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>>
>>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I
>>> tried
>>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>>> a
>>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class
>>> and
>>> he
>>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>>
>>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>>> I'd
>>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>>> nature.
>>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>>> ask.
>>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>>> visual
>>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>>> than
>>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that
>>> they
>>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>>> am
>>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>>> to
>>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>>
>>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>>> class.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>>
>>> Hi Ashley
>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>> work etc.
>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>> Ari
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From gcazares at nfbtx.org  Thu Jan 31 20:54:46 2013
From: gcazares at nfbtx.org (Gabe Cazares)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:54:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Cafe
In-Reply-To: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>

Do you enjoy live music?
Do you enjoy a cash bar?
Are you competitive enough to engage others in a bidding war during
our not so silent and live auction?

If you answered yes to one or all of these questions then the NABS
Café is the event for you! On Monday February 4, 2013 shortly after
the conclusion of The Great Gathering In, the National Association of
Blind Students invites you and all your friends to join us in the
Discovery Room from 8:00 PM to midnight! We will be having some of the
greatest musical names in the Federation singing and playing live!

In addition to fabulous live music, we will also be auctioning off
some world class items such as box seat tickets to a Baltimore
Orioles’ Game, an exquisite Sauvignon Blanc wine from California’s
wine country, a highly coveted 7000MA External Battery, beautiful
ceramic tequila sets imported from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, México,
gourmet food, and products to pamper yourself: among many many many
other goodies! And, don’t worry, in addition to cash and checks, we
are pleased to take credit cards!

You may purchase your ticket in advance all day Monday by stopping by
the NABS registration table outside of our seminar room for $5, or for
those that are champion procrastinators you can purchase a ticket at
the door for $7.

As if that weren’t enough, an added bonus to come to the NABS Café:

Throughout the day on Monday, four people will be in the running to
receive a pie to the face at the event! Jernigan Institute Executive
Director, Mark Riccobono, NFB Strategic Communications Director, Anil
Lewis, former Imagination Fund Chair, and all-around NFB superstar
Kevan Worley, and NABS President, Sean Whalen, will each have a jar in
which you can put money. The person who receives the most money in his
jar will be getting pied during our auction!

So bring your energy, bring your enthusiasm, and bring your money!!!
The 2013 NABS Café promises to be our best one yet!

If you have any questions, or would like more information please feel
free to contact me at gcazares at nfbtx.org or 713-269-5156.

See y’all in Washington D.C!

All the best,

...Gabe

Gabe Cazares
Chair, NABS Fundraising Committee



-- 
Gabe Cazares
Twitter: @gmcazares
Skype: gabriel.cazares
Phone: 713-581-0619
"You are not your circumstances. You are your possibilities. If you
know that, you can do anything"-Oprah Winfrey


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 21:11:54 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:11:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC><CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com><DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC><CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5AFD8D5A70E4AE4B276581112B143C7@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
"Amy, Susie, can I please join your group."
That is not weird, and that is what you want.
teacher: "Amy, Susie, can blind Johnny please join your group?"
That is a little odd.
"Hey, you want to group up?"
That is least strange of them all.

If you are looking at your computer getting ready to take notes, then look 
up and ask, "so what is the prompt?"
Most people will just read it with out thinking twice?
If you ask someone to read aloud the prompt for everyone, that also works. 
Despite what people think, sighted people really benefit from the same 
things that make a class accessible to us.
Most people thrive if a leader, you, invites them to learn in an oral way. 
It is not weird and I have been in more groups than I can count where people 
didn't pause when I asked questions to participate in the class.
I also can get descriptions of videos from my group mates. If they aren't 
answering you, then ask the teacher after what the point of the movie was or 
ask the teacher before hand. I often have found if the teacher tells me the 
point before I see the movie I get much more out of the movie than if I were 
to see it then get the point after.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:01 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues

Ashley,
  I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
  I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
although that seldom happens.
  Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
saying "no!  That won't work for me."
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
> have done if it wasn't for audible.
> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
> us how its going, am very interested to know.
> Ari
>
> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Ari,
>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>> doesn't
>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then
>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>
>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>> Why?
>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>> position
>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting
>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I
>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>> we're
>> on.
>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>> us like four or five questions.
>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>> credit.
>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>> copy
>> to the professor.
>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>> as
>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>> room
>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>> group
>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>
>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>> assignment
>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>> sociological
>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>> tv;
>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>
>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>> already
>> paired in groups for the project.
>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>
>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>> business
>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>> a
>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>> from
>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>
>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried
>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>> a
>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and
>> he
>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>
>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>> I'd
>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>> nature.
>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>> ask.
>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>> visual
>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>> than
>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they
>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>> am
>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>> to
>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>
>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>> class.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>
>> Hi Ashley
>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>> work etc.
>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>> Ari
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 21:16:32 2013
From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:16:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <E5AFD8D5A70E4AE4B276581112B143C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC><CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com><DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC><CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E5AFD8D5A70E4AE4B276581112B143C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <F8DA7C75-8F54-497E-90B7-F1D5359B1392@gmail.com>

hi all,

I definitely agree with brandon.
I have always attended regular schools and so on so really i didn't have much of ac hoice. it was either i stood up and interacted with class mates or i did nothing whatsoever.
I will reply in a while with more of my experiences, but i felt i should point this out.

Mauricio
On Jan 31, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> "Amy, Susie, can I please join your group."
> That is not weird, and that is what you want.
> teacher: "Amy, Susie, can blind Johnny please join your group?"
> That is a little odd.
> "Hey, you want to group up?"
> That is least strange of them all.
> 
> If you are looking at your computer getting ready to take notes, then look up and ask, "so what is the prompt?"
> Most people will just read it with out thinking twice?
> If you ask someone to read aloud the prompt for everyone, that also works. Despite what people think, sighted people really benefit from the same things that make a class accessible to us.
> Most people thrive if a leader, you, invites them to learn in an oral way. It is not weird and I have been in more groups than I can count where people didn't pause when I asked questions to participate in the class.
> I also can get descriptions of videos from my group mates. If they aren't answering you, then ask the teacher after what the point of the movie was or ask the teacher before hand. I often have found if the teacher tells me the point before I see the movie I get much more out of the movie than if I were to see it then get the point after.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:01 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
> 
> Ashley,
> I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
> insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
> going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
> suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
> I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
> me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
> of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
> accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
> commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
> thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
> me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
> matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
> easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
> for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
> starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
> professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
> telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
> people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
> the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
> to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
> like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
> even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
> in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
> perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
> they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
> needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
> If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
> someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
> the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
> wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
> happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
> although that seldom happens.
> Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
> thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
> lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
> uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
> issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
> eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
> arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
> saying "no!  That won't work for me."
> Best,
> Kirt
> 
> On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
>> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
>> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
>> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
>> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
>> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
>> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
>> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
>> have done if it wasn't for audible.
>> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
>> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
>> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
>> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
>> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
>> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
>> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
>> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
>> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
>> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
>> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
>> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
>> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
>> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
>> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
>> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
>> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
>> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
>> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
>> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
>> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
>> us how its going, am very interested to know.
>> Ari
>> 
>> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>>> doesn't
>>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then
>>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>> 
>>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>>> Why?
>>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>>> position
>>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting
>>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I
>>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>>> we're
>>> on.
>>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>>> us like four or five questions.
>>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>>> credit.
>>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>>> copy
>>> to the professor.
>>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>>> as
>>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>>> room
>>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>>> group
>>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>> 
>>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>>> assignment
>>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>>> sociological
>>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>>> tv;
>>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>> 
>>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>>> already
>>> paired in groups for the project.
>>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>> 
>>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
>>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>>> business
>>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>>> a
>>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>>> from
>>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>> 
>>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried
>>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>>> a
>>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and
>>> he
>>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>> 
>>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>>> I'd
>>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>>> nature.
>>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>>> ask.
>>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>>> visual
>>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>>> than
>>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they
>>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>>> am
>>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>>> to
>>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>>> class.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>> 
>>> Hi Ashley
>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>> work etc.
>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>> Ari
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 21:49:39 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:49:39 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word
Message-ID: <CACUFQdych9Dt48p1GbaTx8ur56O3eFzm6QaYePe3rER4LsxQPg@mail.gmail.com>

Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the
margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I
was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe
that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something
wrong? I’m sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments,
but I don’t think I’m searching with the right terms. Or, could there
be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I
assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a
document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am
using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 21:52:25 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:52:25 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Cafe
In-Reply-To: <CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo351SMreq5z0iTO0U62MJpmDKUQMu0Nw3NfsvH=FTF7B2iMA@mail.gmail.com>

I read this out of interest, now I'm totally confused? This pie thing,
is it an American thing I'm not understanding? You mean you actually
pay someone to throw a pie at your face? What type of pie? I don't
think I'm really getting this?
Ari

On 1/31/13, Gabe Cazares <gcazares at nfbtx.org> wrote:
> Do you enjoy live music?
> Do you enjoy a cash bar?
> Are you competitive enough to engage others in a bidding war during
> our not so silent and live auction?
>
> If you answered yes to one or all of these questions then the NABS
> Café is the event for you! On Monday February 4, 2013 shortly after
> the conclusion of The Great Gathering In, the National Association of
> Blind Students invites you and all your friends to join us in the
> Discovery Room from 8:00 PM to midnight! We will be having some of the
> greatest musical names in the Federation singing and playing live!
>
> In addition to fabulous live music, we will also be auctioning off
> some world class items such as box seat tickets to a Baltimore
> Orioles’ Game, an exquisite Sauvignon Blanc wine from California’s
> wine country, a highly coveted 7000MA External Battery, beautiful
> ceramic tequila sets imported from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, México,
> gourmet food, and products to pamper yourself: among many many many
> other goodies! And, don’t worry, in addition to cash and checks, we
> are pleased to take credit cards!
>
> You may purchase your ticket in advance all day Monday by stopping by
> the NABS registration table outside of our seminar room for $5, or for
> those that are champion procrastinators you can purchase a ticket at
> the door for $7.
>
> As if that weren’t enough, an added bonus to come to the NABS Café:
>
> Throughout the day on Monday, four people will be in the running to
> receive a pie to the face at the event! Jernigan Institute Executive
> Director, Mark Riccobono, NFB Strategic Communications Director, Anil
> Lewis, former Imagination Fund Chair, and all-around NFB superstar
> Kevan Worley, and NABS President, Sean Whalen, will each have a jar in
> which you can put money. The person who receives the most money in his
> jar will be getting pied during our auction!
>
> So bring your energy, bring your enthusiasm, and bring your money!!!
> The 2013 NABS Café promises to be our best one yet!
>
> If you have any questions, or would like more information please feel
> free to contact me at gcazares at nfbtx.org or 713-269-5156.
>
> See y’all in Washington D.C!
>
> All the best,
>
> ...Gabe
>
> Gabe Cazares
> Chair, NABS Fundraising Committee
>
>
>
> --
> Gabe Cazares
> Twitter: @gmcazares
> Skype: gabriel.cazares
> Phone: 713-581-0619
> "You are not your circumstances. You are your possibilities. If you
> know that, you can do anything"-Oprah Winfrey
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 22:04:12 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:04:12 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Cafe
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351SMreq5z0iTO0U62MJpmDKUQMu0Nw3NfsvH=FTF7B2iMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351SMreq5z0iTO0U62MJpmDKUQMu0Nw3NfsvH=FTF7B2iMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJARV_ji+FVf3w=k1Hj5kLTfjxocqWXA0OoyxTGNDgSusQ@mail.gmail.com>

I guess technically you're paying for the entertainment of watching
someone cool get totally embarrassed by having a pie thrown in their
face. I'm not sure it matters what type of pie it is. I don't quite
get it either to be quite honest. :)
Arielle

On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> I read this out of interest, now I'm totally confused? This pie thing,
> is it an American thing I'm not understanding? You mean you actually
> pay someone to throw a pie at your face? What type of pie? I don't
> think I'm really getting this?
> Ari
>
> On 1/31/13, Gabe Cazares <gcazares at nfbtx.org> wrote:
>> Do you enjoy live music?
>> Do you enjoy a cash bar?
>> Are you competitive enough to engage others in a bidding war during
>> our not so silent and live auction?
>>
>> If you answered yes to one or all of these questions then the NABS
>> Café is the event for you! On Monday February 4, 2013 shortly after
>> the conclusion of The Great Gathering In, the National Association of
>> Blind Students invites you and all your friends to join us in the
>> Discovery Room from 8:00 PM to midnight! We will be having some of the
>> greatest musical names in the Federation singing and playing live!
>>
>> In addition to fabulous live music, we will also be auctioning off
>> some world class items such as box seat tickets to a Baltimore
>> Orioles’ Game, an exquisite Sauvignon Blanc wine from California’s
>> wine country, a highly coveted 7000MA External Battery, beautiful
>> ceramic tequila sets imported from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, México,
>> gourmet food, and products to pamper yourself: among many many many
>> other goodies! And, don’t worry, in addition to cash and checks, we
>> are pleased to take credit cards!
>>
>> You may purchase your ticket in advance all day Monday by stopping by
>> the NABS registration table outside of our seminar room for $5, or for
>> those that are champion procrastinators you can purchase a ticket at
>> the door for $7.
>>
>> As if that weren’t enough, an added bonus to come to the NABS Café:
>>
>> Throughout the day on Monday, four people will be in the running to
>> receive a pie to the face at the event! Jernigan Institute Executive
>> Director, Mark Riccobono, NFB Strategic Communications Director, Anil
>> Lewis, former Imagination Fund Chair, and all-around NFB superstar
>> Kevan Worley, and NABS President, Sean Whalen, will each have a jar in
>> which you can put money. The person who receives the most money in his
>> jar will be getting pied during our auction!
>>
>> So bring your energy, bring your enthusiasm, and bring your money!!!
>> The 2013 NABS Café promises to be our best one yet!
>>
>> If you have any questions, or would like more information please feel
>> free to contact me at gcazares at nfbtx.org or 713-269-5156.
>>
>> See y’all in Washington D.C!
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> ...Gabe
>>
>> Gabe Cazares
>> Chair, NABS Fundraising Committee
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gabe Cazares
>> Twitter: @gmcazares
>> Skype: gabriel.cazares
>> Phone: 713-581-0619
>> "You are not your circumstances. You are your possibilities. If you
>> know that, you can do anything"-Oprah Winfrey
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From aridamoulakis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 22:10:49 2013
From: aridamoulakis at gmail.com (Ari Damoulakis)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 00:10:49 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Cafe
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJARV_ji+FVf3w=k1Hj5kLTfjxocqWXA0OoyxTGNDgSusQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351SMreq5z0iTO0U62MJpmDKUQMu0Nw3NfsvH=FTF7B2iMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJARV_ji+FVf3w=k1Hj5kLTfjxocqWXA0OoyxTGNDgSusQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo351Ru0r5Nj8mxF9Msj-L8M3Vb-DeQOTre+LrkBece3oMPwg@mail.gmail.com>

Oh sorry Arielle, I must have misread or not understood properly. I
thought you pay the money so that they can then throw the pie in your
face if you pay more than anyone else. OK, it makes a little more
sense now. I was wondering is it really so nice to have a pie thrown
at you that you will pay for it?
Ari


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 22:10:48 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:10:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdych9Dt48p1GbaTx8ur56O3eFzm6QaYePe3rER4LsxQPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdych9Dt48p1GbaTx8ur56O3eFzm6QaYePe3rER4LsxQPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAFP0bneiQ=MnmSJ6fde2Vi1EEuexq83HOtBRbFeGBjZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Try control-shift-apostrophe. This should make JAWS read the Track
Change comments which appear in the margins.
Arielle

On 1/31/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the
> margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I
> was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe
> that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something
> wrong? I’m sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments,
> but I don’t think I’m searching with the right terms. Or, could there
> be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I
> assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a
> document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am
> using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks.
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 22:25:31 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:25:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] 2013 NABS Cafe
In-Reply-To: <CAOo351Ru0r5Nj8mxF9Msj-L8M3Vb-DeQOTre+LrkBece3oMPwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOy_VPQcbvEoGkvHaM28VhZ6RyvpRNnP6WUjgkRECNsauUkecw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_VPSh4hWv8qE45fjLkbx+CeoRF-Kp-m7WLugbXPUWxgUa+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351SMreq5z0iTO0U62MJpmDKUQMu0Nw3NfsvH=FTF7B2iMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJARV_ji+FVf3w=k1Hj5kLTfjxocqWXA0OoyxTGNDgSusQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOo351Ru0r5Nj8mxF9Msj-L8M3Vb-DeQOTre+LrkBece3oMPwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdxvQ9fj1TTVbAiHnuTZicRO0WvK2L7Ger7-24BN9y_0uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Most people do it for charity. So these 4 people have volunteered to
do it because they care about NABS and want to help us raise money.

And for all you iPhone users, make a calendar event out of this, make
sure you choose the iCloud home calendar to be the calendar it is
saved on, and invite everyone from your affiliate using their email
addresses.

Cindy

On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh sorry Arielle, I must have misread or not understood properly. I
> thought you pay the money so that they can then throw the pie in your
> face if you pay more than anyone else. OK, it makes a little more
> sense now. I was wondering is it really so nice to have a pie thrown
> at you that you will pay for it?
> Ari
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 31 22:53:45 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:53:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] group projects issues
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fa+Th77=jdjwKCQpFo0k4H7ppS+cB6u9PWztwsbQqt2Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E70AB917EE584BE7B8EB4692D52AFFF9@OwnerPC><CAOo351TQYMMHi_vvOiZcRE_h3wnqMuyUkEhs4DXd5Fnw+YZPBQ@mail.gmail.com><DCAF07F93E9942E3919C66FDF3F8269C@OwnerPC><CAOo351SwEyfj53Wqc=SVKZp-SKSxBbJW6tM8HAe2vPH-iq0aKQ@mail.gmail.com><CABDhuev2oOaG5NeSPO6BH_uvJ1BbZG47daQDOz4Dh61SyZcOaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7Fa+Th77=jdjwKCQpFo0k4H7ppS+cB6u9PWztwsbQqt2Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96865EA2BBDC4F0FA2C1EEF181DE77CC@OwnerPC>

Kaiti,
Well, again what happened was I asked around and no one had room in their 
groups.
They said we are full.
During regular class discussions, I do  ask neighbors and usually join their 
group.
But again, the group project was supposed to be six people.
Its not like I'm shy or sit there. Its just sometimes that
finding a group is hard. Might I add that conversation works both ways! They 
should ask me to join groups too.
I find it an awful and depressing feeling to be left out.

As for educating and talking to students,  I have done this but more often 
its with random people, people not in class. So just because I chat with a 
few people here and there does not mean I will get into a group project. 
Keep in mind the community college is a very large spread out campus with 
thousands of students.

I also talked to students before class began. A few days the professor was 
late and  I asked around in general about how her teaching style was
and if they took sociology 201 with her. Generally they said they liked her 
and it was easy.

Anyway, I'm adding this so you know what I tried.

I know blind people who complain about lack of opportunity, yet they do 
nothing to create it; they look to their rehab counselors or someone else to 
find them opportunities. I am not at all shy and I try to look for 
opportunities and include myself even though as I said it should be a two 
way street.
I do feel I ask around quickly. I also will say that in some classes I have 
been asked to join groups. Better yet, some professors put us in groups. We 
would count off numbers. Then  the professor says ok, the ones join 
together, the twos join together,
etc. Then we do that and no problem. So it just depends on the class.

Anyway, that is what happens; in another class I have we also form groups to 
discuss things for like five minutes. Its not as much an issue there because 
the students seem quieter and mature or something. They gladly listened to 
me and included me. In fact, for some of the discussion prompts, I found 
myself doing most of the talking, probably cause I was the only one who came 
up with an answer to complex questions.

Anyway, I will just hope this group project goes okay.
Ashley



-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues

Hi Ashley,

I second Kirt in that I say this with all due civility, but I never
asked or suggested that you be an embassador and march into class
championing the blind community.  The point of educating other
students you're going to have to work with is not blindness-related
outreach, but getting them to see that you're capable of the same
work, pulling your weight without them required to do much extra to
help you, etc.  Actually, it really has more to do with you putting
you and your capabilities and strengths out there and educating them
about you with tidbits of blindness stuff here and there (which
usually turn out to be questions directed at you from peers anyway and
you just have to be open and comfortable about answering them).  I've
found in my high school years that the students who didn't know what I
was capable of were avoidant of working with me because they were
unsure of what they would have to do.  Once they got to know me and I
showed them I would do my part without them doing much besides reading
print out loud here and there group work got easier.  All I meant was
that it would probably be in your best interest to small talk here or
there so they can look past the blindness and get to know you more as
someone else they can work with on the same field.  Once people get
past that small aspect of you they'll typically be very helpful and
willing to invite you to participate with them because they will see
you as a capable student who happens to be blind rather than the blind
student who they don't really know much about.
I know plenty of blind people who attend community colleges, and some
who go to school while keeping a job, and still interact with people
they go to class with for studying and other purposes even if it's
just a minute or so here and there, but if you don't want to talk to
people the only other suggestion I have is to use Brandon's strategy
of speed.  I'd think a majority of people on this list, including
myself, are unable to make eye contact for groups and use verbal
interaction and speed as our assets in finding groups.  Brandon's
strategy has proved pretty useful for me as well and he's right that
it works about 9 out of 10 times if not more often than that.
However, the merits of social interaction that Kirt talked about are
really useful, especially when groups are full and a student can
politely tell you that the group on the other side of the classroom
looks smaller so I hope you'll reconsider using some of those for your
own benefit.  I hope I didn't come across as condescending because
that was not my intent, I was just giving suggestions based on my
experiences.  Whether you choose to use them is ultimately up to you,
but these have worked for me and others so hopefully one or two will
suit your needs.
HTH

On 1/31/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
> insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
> going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
> suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
>   I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
> me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
> of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
> accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
> commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
> thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
> me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
> matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
> easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
> for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
> starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
> professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
> telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
> people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
> the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
> to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
> like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
> even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
> in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
> perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
> they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
> needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
> If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
> someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
> the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
> wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
> happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
> although that seldom happens.
>   Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
> thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
> lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
> uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
> issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
> eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
> arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
> saying "no!  That won't work for me."
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
>> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
>> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
>> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
>> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
>> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
>> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
>> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
>> have done if it wasn't for audible.
>> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
>> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
>> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
>> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
>> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
>> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
>> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
>> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
>> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
>> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
>> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
>> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
>> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
>> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
>> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
>> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
>> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
>> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
>> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
>> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
>> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
>> us how its going, am very interested to know.
>> Ari
>>
>> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>>> doesn't
>>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and
>>> then
>>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>>
>>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>>> Why?
>>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>>> position
>>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or
>>> getting
>>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much.
>>> I
>>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>>> we're
>>> on.
>>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>>> us like four or five questions.
>>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>>> credit.
>>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>>> copy
>>> to the professor.
>>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>>> as
>>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>>> room
>>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>>> group
>>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>>
>>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>>> assignment
>>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>>> sociological
>>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>>> tv;
>>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>>
>>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>>> already
>>> paired in groups for the project.
>>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>>
>>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget
>>> it!
>>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>>> business
>>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>>> a
>>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>>> from
>>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>>
>>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I
>>> tried
>>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>>> a
>>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class
>>> and
>>> he
>>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>>
>>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>>> I'd
>>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>>> nature.
>>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>>> ask.
>>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>>> visual
>>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>>> than
>>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that
>>> they
>>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>>> am
>>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>>> to
>>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>>
>>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>>> class.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>>
>>> Hi Ashley
>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>> work etc.
>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>> Ari
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Kaiti

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From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 23:12:05 2013
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:12:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdych9Dt48p1GbaTx8ur56O3eFzm6QaYePe3rER4LsxQPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdych9Dt48p1GbaTx8ur56O3eFzm6QaYePe3rER4LsxQPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001701ce0008$63ed5680$2bc80380$@gmail.com>

Hello Cindy,

JAWS should be able to read / announce the comments as you are moving
through the document. When you reach a comment in the spot or selection that
she put the comment, JAWS will say, "Has comment," and say the text. Then,
you must navigate with control+right and control+left arrow word by word to
find the comment. Then, when you reach the text that she put the comment on,
JAWS should say something like: "Comment Reference colon Bla Bla Bla. By
username." 
In addition, you can press Alt+Shift+apostrophe to get the "Reviewer's
comments dialog" where you can see her comments in a listbox.
Hope this helps you. Please let me know if you have further questions. You
may reply directly to me if you wish: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com.

Have a nice day!
Humberto

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:50 PM
To: National Asociation of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] Comments in ms word

Someone told me that they put comments on a ms word document on the
margin of the document. I looked on the review tab and noticed that I
was unable to view or move through comments which led me to believe
that there were no comments in the document. Am I doing something
wrong? I'm sure that JAWS help has directions for reading comments,
but I don't think I'm searching with the right terms. Or, could there
be a different type of comment? She is using Microsoft for Mac, but I
assume that imbedded comments are the only way to comment in a
document besides writing them within the document. Thoughts? I am
using ms word 2010 and JAWS 13. Thanks.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com

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