[nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sun Jan 13 04:22:16 UTC 2013
Ashley,
I agree with you. How inappropriate and disrespectful!
Unfortunately, this probably all goes back to the old misconception that we
can't speak for ourselves.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
Hello Marc,
Thanks. Exactly how I feel! What happened as I said was we coresponded for
several messages. He expressed concerns and I asked him questions. I found
out he showed videos in class and gave pop quizzes; these were concerns on
both our ends.
Then he suggests I take a class online with a different professor. Then I
wrote to him requesting we discuss his concerns in a phone conversation.
That is when he did not return my calls. Instead, that very day, the dss
counselor leaves me a message because Dr. S.
came to him and she in turn came to me. It was inappropriate for him to do
this. He did not even tell me he'd do this!
I find it disrespectful since other students talk to their professors and
have an understanding of privacy. Why can't we blind students have the same
curtesy? I mean if a veteran came to class they would not go to the veterans
office for questions. I loved your example of the international student.
Also, I feel when the accomodations come up, all my dss says anyway is the
basics are covered like electronic handouts and extended time on exams. if I
request something different they said they're not required to do that.
Someone on list said they get tactile diagrams; I did not get that option.
Anyway, he did what he did and its history. I just hope it doesn't happen to
other students.
It likely will though.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
Kaiti wrote,
> I completely agree with Arielle. Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office. I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do. I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone. He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too). However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way.
I think you're being too easy on the prof. Yes, he's probably not a bad
person, but it was completely inappropriate for him to ignore Ashley and
consult with the DS office. Something similar happened to me once, and I
found it thoroughly disrespectful. In what other situation does a prof
ignore the student and instead discuss that student's participation with
some other third party? Would that prof go to the international centre if he
was approached by an international student? Perhaps, but I seriously doubt
it. He went to the DS office because the DS office is understood by some as
the custodians of disabled students on campus. Viewing disabled students and
the DS office that way indicates a lack of respect in my opinion.
The real issue, though, is that the councillor let this meeting take place
without saying we should reschedule and invite Ashley to discuss these
issues. The prof is just ignorant and needs to be educated, but the
councillor should know better. Discussions about accommodations and our
participation in the classroom directly concern us, and we should be an
active participant in such discussions, not the child in the corner who the
grown ups have to decide what to do with. As Lavonya's signature states:
"nothing about us without us". If a prof has concerns about me, he should
approach me as he would any other student. If a councillor is approached by
a prof concerning a student, she should direct the prof to the proper
authority, the student.
I take no position on whether to stick it out in the class or walk away, but
what the prof and councillor did was entirely infantilizing and
inappropriate.
Regards,
Marc
On 2013-01-12, at 5:09 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Ashley,
>
> I completely agree with Arielle. Perhaps the guy isn't necessarily
> bad, he's just intimidated which would explain why he would have gone
> to the ds office. I'm not saying it was right, but odds are he's
> never had a blind student before and is just scared and doesn't know
> what to do. I doubt he would have really meant disrespect, but was
> probably just flustered and out of his comfort zone. He probably just
> wanted some guidance from the ds people, which if that's the case then
> it's good he was proactive and trying to use his resources (the ds
> office is there for the professors too). However, he should have at
> least returned your call or sent you an email to at least know he got
> your message, and perhaps your ds counselor should have presented that
> tidbit to you in a better way. Going to his class a few times might
> show him that it's not really a big deal and eleviate te situation
> though.
>
> Sounds like your ds office isn't very helpful at all as you said. My
> office has an online form for ordering alternative formats, and they
> let you choose between pdf, word, and txt documents. They also offer
> a few different services for dealing with pictures and such. Most of
> the time I can deal with my professors describing what is on the board
> as they lecture, (I tell them on the first day that it's really
> beneficial for me if they do that), and I'm fine. For diagrams in my
> books I can usually get tactile representations or have them brailled
> out in advance. For videos shown in class the office offers services
> including text descriptions of what is on screen or a volunteer reader
> in cases where we watch films with subtitles. I used a reader when
> one of my classes watched a Chinese movie with subtitles and she was
> very good about reading the text and describing important details on
> screen.
>
> If your office won't help with this sort of thing, perhaps you could
> find someone in your classes who wouldn't mind quickly describing
> pictures on the board and such during class. As long as they sit
> close to you it shouldn't be a big deal for them to lean over and
> whisper a description. Also, I have had a few instances where the
> professor accidentally overlooked a few diagrams in the book, but was
> able to get the jist of what they were like from asking a friend.
> Studying with others is extremely beneficial.
>
> On 1/12/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ashley and all,
>> I completely agree that it was inappropriate for your professor to go
>> talk with DSS behind your back when you had placed a call to him and
>> attempted to engage him in a discussion. However, I would suggest
>> that dropping his class and taking a different one is letting him
>> win. What I might propose instead is to attend the first few days of
>> his class and see what the assignments are like and if you are able
>> to keep up with them or not. Oftentimes sighted professors put a lot
>> of faith in the videos, pictures, etc. they show when in fact blind
>> students don't really need this content to keep up. Also, as others
>> have suggested, if you read the material before class, you may not
>> need to keep up with the paragraph or page number the others are
>> reading in class in order to participate in discussion. Instead of
>> letting the professor decide for you whether or not his class is
>> accessible, go to a few classes and you can make an informed choice
>> based on what you know about how you learn and what problems you can
>> solve on your own. If after an honest attempt you still find you are
>> having trouble keeping up, then you can drop his class knowing that
>> you in fact made the right choice. On the other hand, you might find
>> the class is more accessible than he is making it out to be and that
>> it is in fact interesting and informative.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/12/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I think there is something called Save as text under the file menu
>>> in the free version of Adobe, because I have used it before. It is
>>> not in the Save As box though. It is its own separate item in the
>>> menu, and it lets you save the file as a text file.
>>> Hth,
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>
>>>
>>>> The only way to save a PDF as something else, is to use the
>>>> professional or full addition of Adobe. You can not do this with
>>>> the traditional Adobe
>>>>
>>>> reader. Make sure the computer has 9 or 10. The link will read buy
>>>> JFW
>>>> as:
>>>> Adobe complete, or Adobe professional 9.0, etc. Most DS offices
>>>> have the program and can make this conversion for you. Hope this
>>>> helps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> well, I've tried that in other classes. I'm not dumb.
>>>>> The computer either froze or the pdf would not allow me to save it
>>>>> as text. I think the publisher protected it somehow so you cannot
>>>>> change it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, as I've said before, the disability office has not and never
>>>>> will give me a doc file.
>>>>> Of course I asked for this. I wanted to put the doc file on a
>>>>> flash drive
>>>>>
>>>>> to read on my braillenote in class.
>>>>> They always tell me the publisher only can send pdfs; they have
>>>>> not invested the time to attempt to convert it themselves. Also,
>>>>> they could fight with the publisher if they wanted to for a more
>>>>> accessible format such as rtf or doc files.
>>>>> But they don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> This community college does not go out of its way to help and
>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>
>>>>> students.
>>>>> I often work out issues myself with professors and order my own books.
>>>>> I
>>>>> try and leave dss out of it. but when the professor wants you to
>>>>> take another class and goes to your dss counselor without your
>>>>> knowledge, there is nothing you can do.
>>>>> If he were going to work with me he would not have stepped behind me.
>>>>> The
>>>>>
>>>>> only reason
>>>>> I know he went to dss was since the dss counselor called me and
>>>>> stated she spoke to him and wanted to discuss with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what so called accomodations she was going to discuss
>>>>> and I never will know. We are not! discussing this bad situation.
>>>>> I should find
>>>>>
>>>>> an instructor willing to work with me. I have never found this
>>>>> counselor helpful and I'm not talking to her. I think all she'll
>>>>> say is the challenges involved and when I ask for videos
>>>>>
>>>>> to be described by the professor or someone, she'll say the
>>>>> college isn't
>>>>>
>>>>> required to do it. I've asked for a braille test before, and she
>>>>> told me they don't have to provide my prefered format; I had to
>>>>> take i t auditorily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given her relunctance to do much but the bare minimum of things, I
>>>>> think discussing it is fruitless and I'll simply look for other
>>>>> options and email her that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a bad situation. Its shaken my trust somewhat. When you email
>>>>> professors it should remain between you and them period.
>>>>> I expect to keep conversations between us since all other
>>>>> students have this right.
>>>>> No third party should be involved without your consent or
>>>>> knowledge. I am
>>>>>
>>>>> tempted to place in subsequent corespondence when I inquire about
>>>>> classes, that this communication is confidential. Heck, if anyone
>>>>> does this again, I will do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, if they violate my right to privacy and confidentiality, I
>>>>> have written proof of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'll see what happens next week when I go to class.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:01 AM
>>>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> There is a pretty simple way of converting PDF to TXT:
>>>>> when you open the PDF go to
>>>>> "save as other"
>>>>> hit text
>>>>> Enter the name and location and there you go.
>>>>> Also, ask the disability center for a .doc and they should be
>>>>> accommodating, I've never heard of one that wasn't for that.
>>>>> There are a million other ways to get a PDF to TXT, but that is first.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:45 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If you are able to get the book from Learning Ally, the books are
>>>>> set up to where you can set them to go page by page, by chapter,
>>>>> by heading, or by sentence, so this may help with at least finding
>>>>> the page number, and then if you go by sentence or if there is a
>>>>> paragraph setting then you may be able to find the paragraph
>>>>> easier.
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon,
>>>>>> Yes professors are set inttheir ways. This is one of them.
>>>>>> Students in that class have to for instance, see paragraph 2 on
>>>>>> page 14.
>>>>>> I usually use audio formats so cannot use text to search.
>>>>>> I have tried to get the electronic copy, but as I said before,
>>>>>> they give
>>>>>>
>>>>>> me pdfs which jaws has trouble reading.
>>>>>> Even if jaws reads it, I don't have page numbers since the book
>>>>>> is broken down by chapters or parts.
>>>>>> Each part or chapter is a large file.
>>>>>> So its impossible to look at a book as others do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad it worked for you, but I know with videos coupled with
>>>>>> the reliance of books, it is a tough teaching style to follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just hate when professors are not willing to talk to you and go
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dss office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:17 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unaccommodating professors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I had a superstar professor who did this. He was an older guy and
>>>>>> he was very set in his ways. He had about 2000 students on his
>>>>>> Corse load and he was also an international star. He said I would
>>>>>> probably fail his class because he used lots of pictures and he
>>>>>> wrote lots on the board. He also said that I would not benefit
>>>>>> from the top notch pictures he both presented in front of the
>>>>>> class and had in the textbook he wrote. He told my Disability
>>>>>> counselor he was not sure how I would deal with the pop quizzes.
>>>>>> On top of that, I was an honors student who had a steeper grading
>>>>>> scale than the normal students.
>>>>>> I told him not to worry, if he was willing to listen to me, we
>>>>>> could work something out. I took the head of the Accessibility
>>>>>> department to one of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> office hours and we hammered him with every problem a week after
>>>>>> class started and we gave solutions. We also presented
>>>>>> alternatives for him to choose from. He then gave us his opinions
>>>>>> and what he was willing to do.
>>>>>> I talked to the professor every week and just made sure things
>>>>>> were going well on his part. I ended up getting an easy A in that
>>>>>> class and that was one of my favorite classes I have ever taken.
>>>>>> May I ask why you can't read paragraphs other students are
>>>>>> reading? I just do a search for words in my word document.
>>>>>> Teacher tells us to look at page 45, paragraph 7 that starts "He
>>>>>> looked to where her boots lay in the mud..."
>>>>>> I search for that and it only takes a second to search through
>>>>>> the whole book.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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