[nabs-l] Cane as an ID

Fri Mar 15 02:33:37 UTC 2013

Aleeha wrote,
> I guess I just don't see the problem with allowing people to interact with you as though you are sighted. If for some reason, you can't see that interaction, then tell them you are blind.

I guess I find this a little hard to understand. If you're standing at an intersection, and someone in a nearby car is gesturing at you to go ahead, you should tell him you can't see? Of course you would have no idea he is gesturing at you in the first place, and he probably wouldn't hear you tell him you can't see even if you tried telling him. And if someone smiles and nods at you as you walk past her, and you give no acknowledgement of this whatsoever, giving the impression you're rude or unfriendly, you should just tell her you can't see? Of course, assuming she just walks past without commenting on your rudeness, you will have no idea that you've given her the impression you're rude or unfriendly.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to say that when you can't see that someone is trying to interact with you in a visual way, you should just tell that person you're blind. The whole point is that you don't always realize when someone is trying to interact with you in a visual way if you are blind.

Arielle,
An ID cane is typically smaller and lighter than a mobility cane, isn't it? Not significantly perhaps, but enough that I might use one if I didn't need the information provided by a mobility cane. Ideally though, if the cane is strictly for ID purposes, I would think some other sort of symbol, a pin perhaps, would be far more convenient. This might be a problem in terms of conspicuousness, but setting that aside, I can see the value of a symbol that performs the same identification function as an ID cane without occupying a hand.

I'm not sure I agree that situations where you need both of your hands are unusual. I suppose if you interpret the word "need" in a very strict sense, this may be more plausible. But carrying six bags of groceries is much easier with two hands, dragging two suitcases is also easier with a second hand, carrying a large box or two cups of coffee, again much easier, or even holding a light object in one hand while trying to unlock a door, hold a partner's hand, lift up the trash bin lid, take out your wallet, and so on. A second hand may not be strictly necessary to accomplish many everyday tasks, but it sure makes things easier a lot of the time.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2013-03-14, at 11:29 AM, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess I just don't see the problem with allowing people to interact
> with you as though you are sighted. If for some reason, you can't see
> that interaction, then tell them you are blind.
> 
> 
> On 3/13/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Our fine line is that we are trying to predict, and or control people's
>> reactions.  If you do not have a cane with you while walking in our
>> country,
>> people probably will not know you are blind.  The original poster has every
>> right to not use a cane and rely on functional vision. However, the
>> reactions of people can't be controlled.  If they don't know he is blind,
>> they will react to him as if he is sighted.  It is his choice.  In America,
>> I don't think we have a way to not carry a cane, but have everyone know
>> that
>> you are blind.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley
>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:43 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cane as an ID
>> 
>> Hi,
>>     I'm going to stick my "oar in" as they say. Kaiti and Mike, I think
>> there may be a bit of misunderstanding. I think what is sought by the
>> original poster on this thread is an identification symbol, something to
>> say
>> "I am blind" that is not as bulky as a cane. I definitely disagree with
>> this. What I do not disagree with is using one's functional vision when you
>> have it and, if that be your desire, to not use a cane if you don't need
>> it.
>> What I do disagree with is the concept of wanting the "you poor blind
>> person" perks of blindness without carrying a cane, as the original poster
>> seems to want. There is a fine line that I think is lost in the grey here.
>> ALeeha
>> 
>> On 3/14/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>> Kaiti:
>>> 
>>> We shall have to agree to disagree. I see no reason to identify as
>>> "visually impaired" unless one wishes special help or perks. Why not
>>> just be blind and have done with the matter? Much simpler.
>>> 
>>> In fact, I know a guy who was nearly totally blind for many years due
>>> to an explosion. He got a good deal of sight back (he's lost it again
>>> now) and used his sight to look around, traveling with a cane as he
>>> always did; thus, he got the benefit of sight plus didn't have to
>>> worry about when he should or should not use a cane, whether to
>>> identify etc. etc.
>>> 
>>> Peace!
>>> 
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cane as an ID
>>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> I have to disagree here.  As one of those partials who elects when to
>>> use and not use a cane, I have a perspective on the issue that you may
>>> not be considering.  Electing when and when not to use a cane is not
>>> always related to a person being insecure with their blindness; some
>>> of the most secure people I know don't use canes all the time.
>>> Furthermore, I don't think people who choose to walk familiar areas
>>> without a cane some times should give up their right to identify
>>> themself as a visually impaired person.  E.G, I would never do any
>>> type of pedestrian travel without a cane or think about crossing a
>>> street without one, and using one at times when I really can't see
>>> like at night or when it's very bright are no brainers, but under
>>> normal conditions when I'm walking from my dorm to the cafeteria right
>>> across the little street which has no traffic at all and I'm coming
>>> right back I don't always choose to actively use it.  My choice to not
>>> use a cane in this instance does not mean I should forfit my right to
>>> identify myself as a visually impaired person because I am; the use of
>>> the cane does not change my inability to read print or to see great
>>> distances and it does not change the fact that I am legally blind and
>>> am identified that way.  It also doesn't change the level of security
>>> I have with my blindness; if a person refuses to use a cane or fights
>>> against it because they're afraid of the social implications then that
>>> is insecurity, but if they're visually having a good day and want to
>>> run a quick errand that's in a very familiar area with minimal travel
>>> or risk of injury and they're confident in their ability to use audio
>>> cues and the vision they have then that is their choice and doesn't
>>> make them insecure with themself or their blindness.  As long as they
>>> have the confidence and security to not be afraid of using it and to
>>> identify and use it when they need to, to be confident and secure
>>> whether they're using a cane or not,  and  don't pose risk to
>>> themselves in the cases where they don't use it there is nothing that
>>> would suggest insecurity.  We don't know the exact visual situation of
>>> anyone on this list unless they've written about it, so I don't think
>>> it is fair to judge about someone's level of security with their
>>> blindness based on their cane habits when we don't know what their
>>> vision is like.
>>> 
>>> Identity canes have saved me from many embarrassing social situations.
>>> Of course when you use it it is a more obvious indicator, but I've
>>> had situations when I've been sitting in a classroom or cafeteria with
>>> my cane on my desk and someone will try to get my attention using
>>> something besides my name.  When they see the cane (or sometimes read
>>> National Federation of the Blind on it if they're close enough to see
>>> it) they understand why I might not recognize that they're referring
>>> to me and they'll get my attention in a more obvious way before
>>> getting my name.  Sometimes they ask about the cane which gives me an
>>> opportunity to casually explain my vision in simple terms and then the
>>> person and I can carry on with the conversation because they're
>>> informed and they see that it's not a big deal.
>>> 
>>> And, I have to make one small correction.  The main market for the
>>> lighter, more compact canes is the precise group of people who may not
>>> use it all the time, and the NFB is obviously aware of this since they
>>> are the ones who originated the telescopic design.  Although I do know
>>> people who are totally blind or only have light perception that use
>>> the telescopic canes they tend to tear through them pretty quickly
>>> because they use them so much.  For someone who may not use the cane
>>> every single day but still would benefit from having an identifier to
>>> let other people know they're visually impaired these canes are great.
>>> Think of it this way; it would be impractical for someone with mild
>>> hearing loss to always use a hearing aid even when they didn't need
>>> one.  Similarly, if visually a partial is having a good day and can
>>> see well enough to successfully travel, dodging obstacles and not
>>> tripping over anything, then it isn't always necessary to use a cane.
>>> In fact, the correction I really want to make is that choosing to have
>>> an identity cane on-hand is actually a sign of security in my eyes
>>> because even if that person may not need to use it by having one for
>>> people to see they must be okay with their blindness and comfortable
>>> in explaining their visual impairment to others should the question
>>> arise.
>>> 
>>> On 3/13/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Amen, Mike! Yes, the king can be used as an identification tool to
>>>> alert drivers that you are blind. However, this can be a positive
>>>> thing and not a negative one. This is at least true if you use that
>>>> identification tool of the cane as a symbol of independence and not
>>>> of inferiority.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my thoughts
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hamid:
>>>>> 
>>>>> With all due respect, it seems to me you're trying to have your cake
>>>>> and eat it, too. ON the one hand, you want all the advantages of
>>>>> being recognized as blind whereas on the other, you don't want to
>>>>> really appear blind or be judged because you do not believe you need
>>>>> a cane. My friend, you can't have it both ways. Why do you even care
>>>>> whether the public considers you blind or not or whether they
>>>>> consider it weird that you might appear to not need a cane?
>>>>> Moreover, aren't you under the tacit assumption that blind persons
>>>>> who use canes travel sufficiently awkwardly that the public knows
>>>>> them as blind whereas you consider that you do not?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Seems to me you have some soul-searching to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We do not have a "blind" id other than the long white cane and most
>>>>> of us would not *want* such a label. It's a short step from such a
>>>>> label to being prohibited from going places or doing things because
>>>>> of the alleged inability of the blind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Grab that white cane, display and use it proudly!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hamid
>>>>> Hamraz
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:40 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cane as an ID
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Folks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is a couple of months I have been investigating a way to
>>>>> represent my blindness without making a functional use of cane. To
>>>>> be more precise, the target people benefiting are those whose
>>>>> residual sight lets them to walk without the use of a cane and who
>>>>> want to let the other people around them know about their blindness.
>>>>> Carrying a cane is indeed an option.
>>>>> However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> personally think that holding a long cane in my hand without using
>>>>> it and walking perfectly is weird in public. In Germany, they have a
>>>>> special symbol representing this which can be attached anywhere in
>>>>> any size at one's own discretion (and everybody is indeed aware of
>>>>> that). However, there is no such a thing here in US, and setting
>>>>> that up requires time and educating the society about that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My question here is what type of cane I should look for? I need
>>>>> something much smaller just to serve as an ID rather than a
>>>>> functional tool. I appreciate any suggestion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hamid
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>> 
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>> 
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