[nabs-l] VR thoughts/what do you all think?

Wed Mar 27 05:30:18 UTC 2013

And to further clarify, my mother does not have any real contact with
my councelor other than chatting a little when I'm signing something
or when we stop by to pick something up.  When it comes to sending in
the forms and the direct contact, I do handle all of that and my
family members aren't involved.

My major concerns are more so with the system than the individual
councelor.  I think if the system itself were better established we
wouldn't have these problems.  Like I said, hiring people who can do
the paperwork is fine, but I don't understand why the system isn't
educating these people about the other factors, big and major ones,
specifically related to the people they work with on a daily basis.
To be metaphorical, it would be like if a doctor knew the books for
his specific specialty, but when it came to actually addressing the
needs of a patient they wouldn't know the treatment process or what to
prescribe.  For doctors, med school and residency provide the hands-on
training to actually deal with these situations as opposed to being
able to correctly fill out answers on a test; why doesn't the state
train the people they employ in this system to understand what the
students or other people they're working with actually need to have in
order to be successful?  Perhaps they should have some sort of
residency program, even if it were just for a day, when councelors
could shadow a student and see why and how much they use their
equipment and what they use it for, what a day of school is really
like for them, how they navigate campus safely, etc.

I would buy my own brailler and stuff like that if I had the money,
but as the bulk of my savings goes to paying school tuition or paying
back family members who help me pay for tuition I don't have the funds
available to buy something as expensive as a brailler.  Of course, I
buy the little things like my canes, any small aids like a braille
labeler and label tape, I maintain my own Jaws license and pay the SMA
fees when they come up, once my student status is up I will certainly
cover my own Bookshare subscription, stuff I can handle buying on my
own, but when it comes to the big stuff I really do need the
assistance in paying for it and that is what the system is supposed to
be there for.

On 3/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kaiti,
> You have some big valid concerns. I'll write more later time permitting.
> For now, I'll say that I also have incompetent counselors. My one now speaks
>
> bad english, cannot compose emails without mistakes such as spelling errors,
>
> rarely responds timely to emails and phone calls and to top it off she takes
>
> vacations and does not tell her clients she is gone. I think you should buy
>
> your own supplies such as that braille writer and paper. Work on O&M with
> friends or your mom. Also, complain to your counselor's supervisor.
>
> I hope things get better.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:16 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] VR thoughts/what do you all think?
>
> Hi all,
>
> First off, I'll respond to something Mike said just to put things into
> perspective.  From my description I totally get why Mike would come to
> the conclusion that Ohio has a general rehab system, and they do as
> they serve a lot of different populations.  However, there is a sub
> group called the Bureau of Services for the Visually Impaired which is
> supposed to specifically oversee those cases for blind and visually
> impaired people.  I also know in my city that the two places blind
> people go to see their councelors are the two centers for the blind we
> have, so it sounds like these voc rehab councelors specialize in
> working for BSVI and aren't dealing with people from other
> populations.  The structure for special attention to the needs of
> blind people is there, it's just shockingly not very good, as it would
> appear.  At our Ohio State NFB convention we had someone speak about
> how they were working to improve the system and appreciated the
> feedback from NFB members so they could address the serious issues,
> however since basic principles of independence have not been addressed
> I don't really know how that is working out or what has changed since
> our convention in early November.
>
> I do have friends who would help me learn campus; actually, my
> instructor only had to show me two classrooms and the rest pertained
> more to locating the bus stops around campus as I'd like to start
> exploring the city more and be able to travel off campus some times,
> even if my friends and their cars aren't always available to go with
> me.  One of my friends did show me a lot of my classes that were in
> buildings I already knew fairly well, and even has showed me a few
> things I didn't know were on campus.  (She happens to have a blind
> grandmother who is pretty independent herself, so my friend already
> knows that all I need is a little showing and I'm usually good from
> then on).  As I have this friend and another who have already shown me
> where our apartment will be next year, and how to get from the
> apartment building to the new music building we will be moving to, I
> don't think I'll need to use the O&M services.  Even learning the
> interior of the new music building will be easy on my own because I
> know the music stuff is only on 2 floors of the building, and all my
> classes there will be with these friends of mine so they can easily
> walk with me to class on the first day and I'll just pick up the route
> as we go.  My mom is also great about O&M, and she actually helped me
> learn a lot of campus just by spending extra time after campus tours
> walking around and pointing out things to me herself.
>
> The DS office here does not have connections to an O&M or a lot of the
> things I'm supposed to get through VR.  Although my disabilities
> office does a really good job of accomodating me and making everything
> accessible they don't have the wealth of resources specific to
> blindness that some other schools do.  (Our sister school in our city
> has tons of blind students and many of them also have other
> disabilities.  My disability coordinator teaches a class there and she
> put it this way, "I have two blind students in my 30-student class
> there, here we have 2 blind students on the entire 11,000 student
> campus").  As I understand it the disabilities office here has this
> rule that they're not supposed to provide personal services or
> equipment to you outside of what you need for testing because they
> understand that that is what VR is supposed to be used for.  They are
> right; and I do think that VR was right to get me things like my
> laptop or BrailleSense and it wouldn't necessarily be the DS office's
> responsibility, but it doesn't put them in a position to help much.
>
> I guess the most frustrating thing is exactly what Mike pointed out;
> I'm trying to be clear and articulate, and feel like I am doing so.
> But, as I've pointed out what is articulate to me is probably a bunch
> of gobbledegook to my councelor who doesn't know what it means, so the
> challenge for me seems like it will be to figure out how to put things
> we would consider as already basic into lamen's terms.  The other
> challenge, which is not really in my control at all, is making sure my
> councelor reads the information and gets it, as when she doesn't
> respond I don't really know what she's doing with the information.
>
> I agree with Arielle; I don't mess with VR much, but by the same token
> I can't really just go through my DS office for everything because of
> their policies related to VR and the student accessing all available
> resources, and because there are a few things I really do need from
> them.  Most importantly, the tuition assistance is something worth
> sticking on the system for.  I realize as well that because I do
> receive some equipment and tuition assistance from them, that as
> frustrating it may be, that I'm probably just going to have to suck it
> up and do the paperwork and there will be no way of getting around
> that.  However, I am really concerned by the manner in which they want
> the paperwork to be repetitively done, their low expectations of
> consumers, and the lack of knowledge those in charge seem to have
> about the people they're working to help.  The way the system is set
> up now does not make sense.
>
> On 3/26/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Mike:
>> I have a friend in Minnisota, who is originally from Ohio.
>> She left Ohio, and moved to MN, because they have better services!
>> I'm thinking about moving up north as well, because our services in
>> Arkansas
>> are pretty lame!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mike Freeman
>> [k7uij at panix.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:26 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] VR thoughts/what do you all think?
>>
>> kaiti:
>> First, it is obvious that you live in a state that has a general rehab
>> agency rather than one dealing specifically with blindness. This is
>> unfortunate as you have discovered. However, knowing what you need and
>> want
>> and being able to cogently articulate your needs will go a long way
>> toward
>> fulfilling them. You've seem this in the case of the Perkins
>> braillewriter.
>> Second, why do you need an O&M specialist to show you around campus?
>> Could
>> not a friend or family member do the job? When you graduate and enter the
>> world of work, you won't have O&M instructors at your beck and call. It
>> is
>> definitely helpful to develop the skill of learning new routes and places
>> with minimal assistance. This is the essence of structured discovery
>> learning. Could your DSS office help? This way, you wouldn't have to
>> worry
>> about rehab at all.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>> sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2013, at 12:49, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Okay, so I'll confess that part of the reason I'm writing this email
>>> is to vent about my current circumstances, but more importantly than
>>> that I am interested in seeing how other states or parts of the
>>> country run their voc rehab services.  I apologize if this email
>>> sounds venty, as in order to explain what I'm talking about I'll need
>>> to give specific examples, but I am really interested in hearing your
>>> thoughts on the matter based on your own experiences.
>>>
>>> The thing that makes me the most uncomfortable with the voc rehab
>>> system in my state is that the councelors don't necessarily know much
>>> about blindness, let alone what a blind student truly needs to be
>>> successful.  My councelor fills her job capacity in terms of knowing
>>> how to do the paperwork, but my own mother has told me that when they
>>> chat as I'm signing papers and my mom brings up something relatively
>>> fundamental like a conversation about navigating campus or something,
>>> she'll notice that what she says goes over my councelor's head.  This
>>> has caused a few concerning events in terms of the authorizations that
>>> have been made for me.  In December for example I requested
>>> orientation and mobility training so I could go through my second
>>> semester schedule, as there were a few buildings I would need to use
>>> that I had not been to yet.  I got in touch with my O&M guy and we
>>> planned to set up a time in January.  I emailed my councelor and told
>>> her this, but then my O&M specialist emailed me back and asked if I
>>> would be on campus after the first semester ended in December, because
>>> that was when training was authorized.  I had to email my councelor
>>> and tell her that the reason for going with January was that campus
>>> closed the last day of finals week, and a few days prior to the start
>>> of the second term I would be back on campus and most of the academic
>>> buildings would be reopened.  Another time for this same semester I
>>> requested a Perkins Brailler, specifically specifying that the
>>> traditional braillers were much sturdier and more reliable than the
>>> plastic ones and justifying my request.  When I got a call from my
>>> vendor she first informed me that the braillers were out of stock
>>> until February, half way through my semester, and then asked me what
>>> color I wanted.  I told her that the new brailler was not what I
>>> thought I was getting and she got in touch with the councelor.  I
>>> ended up getting a traditional anyway on the grounds that although the
>>> new generations were out of stock, there were plenty traditionals
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>

-- 
Kaiti